yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Apps and Games] hakaishi:
Hi there! I'm a happy user of FairEmail and as a dev myself, please allow me a few comments.

Many people simply don't appreciate good stuff. Don't mind that. Negative comments etc? I wouldn't care at all. If they have a problem with it, they can fork it and do their own thing. Dot. Maybe it's precisely because your apps are good. It's a thorn in their eyes and they need them to be removed in order to make Android more insecure.

By the way: I really love it that the real URLs are shown and inspectable upon clicking a link. I don't know any other app having this great security feature!

I also enjoy programming, just like you. I simply program for myself. Of course I won't ignore suggestions. Most questions have to be answered once, but after that anyone can few the answer. I wouldn't care too much about it, to be honest.

For FairEmail I see commits almost every day and I'm impressed that you held that speed for so long.

I would take it a little bit more relaxed. For example just a few hours on the weekends. Maybe not every weekend either.

Take a look at VLC and other stuff. They sometimes only update the version or libraries.

Once everything you expect to work is done, development speed will drop anyway. Good stuff doesn't necessarily need to be that actively developed.

I think that most people really appreciate your work. Don't loose your head because of a few stupid ***. I totally can't understand why someone would give one star for such a great project. Why do people give only one star anyway when they only have a complaint about a tiny part of whatsoever ignoring the big picture? - I think you put too much importance to such unimportant things. Even the best products get negative reviews and comments.

I hope your girlfriend gets well soon! I wish you a nice weekend!

Cheers,

Hakaishi

PS: People who care gather rather in forums like here, f-droid etc. than on the play-store where anyone does like they please (incl. Google).

For many it might be a loss if you don't put your apps there, but privacy focused people are not very likely to be there. Devs and Privacy focused people will appreciate your work more than the average people out there. That's what I believe.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
I was just thinking to maybe just release updates on GitHub, but that plan is going right into the trash can after this 1 star Play store review:

Link.

Edit: maybe the first of the review is right and I am not suitable for this project.
[Android Apps and Games] valecs:
Hi Marcel (@M66B),

Just wanted to say thank you so much for all the amazing work you've done. I totally support you taking care of yourself and your relationship to this work. I sympathize with the sting of unkind and/or thoughtless reviews/comments. You and your contributions will surely be missed.

Here's to those that wish you well, everyone else can sit on a tack.

Hope you can be good to yourself in all of this; much respect and thanks,

vale
[Android Apps and Games] NorLa:
(y) Good idea to publish updates only on Github in the future. I think whoever is on there will appreciate your work much better. Why throw this idea in the trash because of a few people who blurt out unqualified remarks? And certainly no reason to doubt yourself.

Imho it's not even necessary to update FairEmail every few days --- because it's already really good right NOW!
[Android Apps and Games] de_Wolf:
But you read not only the negative comments but also the positive ones here? :-)
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
I did, also those received by email, and this is most certainly being appreciated.

Still it hurts. Basically there is being asked to be a social and asocial person at the same time. I can't be that.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Google's answer:
[Android Apps and Games] de_Wolf:
Honestly, I don't understand, why are you being asked to be an antisocial person?
[Android Apps and Games] 30jp:
Hi Marcel

Please stop with Google.

This is not going well.

When I look at the latest posts here it's again about 1 star and about Google's policies.

Google doesn't change and it doesn't make you happier.

I think quitting Google will bring you a lot more peace of mind.

Because now you're annoyed about it again.

With Github and F-Droid you have more serious users. Users who have made a conscious choice.

That leaves you with 2% of your users and probably a few more % who switch from Google to Github.

Fewer users, trolls, policies, stars, but more peace and fun.

Take more distance, you don't have to get 3 new updates every week.

Don't put so many hours into it.

The apps are fine.

Sit back and enjoy the many nice comments here on XDA, that is certainly something to be proud of.

Sincerely, 30jp
[Android Apps and Games] mkasimd:
He sounds like Paradoxus in this blog. Chances are, perhaps even same person: https://stadt-bremerhaven.de/fairem...pp-aus-dem-google-play-store/#comment-1360543

He's an annoying nagger. Nothing more than that. Might even nag in multiple places under different names. He has got nothing better to do than talking ill about others, I suppose.
[Android Apps and Games] MrBrainstorm:
I heard about the issue with Google today and came here to read more about it. It'd really break my heart if the development of the app stops. I tried soooo many clients in the past but whenever I found one I liked, it turned out to be fishy or those clients that (kinda) worked ok were either awful to use or the push notifications weren't working.

Today I went ahead and bought the pro features although the free version already offered everything I could ever ask for.

Some people are very sensitive to negative feedback and it's hard for those to ignore it, even if the positive feedback is overwhelming.

If you decide to continue the development you should seriously consider to slow it down a bit (or more) and reduce the interaction with the community. Your mental health will appreciate it and your quality of life will most likely improve.

Whatever path you chose, I wish all the best for the future.
[Android Apps and Games] chris122380:
I can't use K9 no Oath support and no tracking protection. Both of those pieces alone made Fairemail the most essential email app.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Apps are automatically being rejected by an "AI" and this will obviously not be fail-safe. In itself a rejection isn't a problem, but it is a problem that Google doesn't tell why an app was rejected exactly and that no useful discussion about it is possible.

I think the biggest victims are the users of the app.

I am answering all support emails, but last days were "a bit" hectic, so maybe your messages got lost in a huge pile of messages. Please ask your question again, which you can do here too.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
@Dr-Bob

I just sent this to Google:
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
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They did not and I asked them a few simple questions, which they do not answer.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
The app doesn't send or share contact list info.

The app has been removed before, probably just because there was a link in the change log to https://libravatar.org.

It just isn't that simple.

Anyway, the app is open source, so if you or anybody else can tell me where the app sends contact list info as Google says, please be my guest.
[Android Apps and Games] chris122380:
If you have purchased the app you can still see it under the list of your purchased apps. However ignore the reviews you are always going to find critics. It doesn't matter if it's a perfect app there will always be somebody who complains. However the last time I looked at it (yesterday) all the reviews were five stars that were displaying on the page. The outpouring of support on XDA, Twitter, Mastodon, in news articles, etc show that all of us don't care what the reviewers have to say. Plus if you want to look at reviews Fairemail surpasses all of these apps with a 4.7 rating while these are less than that Twitter, Mastodon, XDA, Facebook, Gmail, Google, Aquamail, K9, etc. It just shows that more people liked Fairemail then the majority of the apps in the Play store. And even outranked almost all of Google's own apps. To have this high of reviews there is nothing to be ashamed of.

Fairemail is still the best email app available and even if you choose not to update it going forward doesn't change the fact that it is still the best.
[Android Apps and Games] skibbi_pl:
Hi Marcel,

As a FairEmail pro user I just wanted to thank you for this amazing mail app. I'm a heavy mail user and I absolutely love your app. I hope you'll not drop the development because of this. But of course it's your decision so I would like to thank you for the last one year of support.

Take care and best wishes!
[Android Apps and Games] paradøx:
"I think the open source community will not miss such a character."

Wrong. Netguard, FairEmail, XPrivacyLua... I wonder how that idiotic reviewer has contributed to the open source community?
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
I think this is a fair question: can you please uninstall the app, install the Gmail app and go away?
[Android Apps and Games] rhardy:
Hi Marcel,

Sorry to hear about what has been happening with Fairemail and your partner. How she gets better soon.

Things have not be easy lately on so many levels. Thanks for your efforts with respect to FairEmail. Your tool is badly needed and your contributions will be surely missed. I really hope we find some way to keep using FairEmail as I too have bought the Pro version. From my point of view there really isn't a functional alternative. Seeing the community come together and build on your tool and figuring out a way to sponsor improvements to it was really the direction I was hoping for. For example I would love to find a way to get better server side searching through the app and could sponsor that.

The current mobile landscape is broken on so many levels. Computing devices whether they are notebooks, phones, PC or whatever are their owners. Having monopolistic corporate interests control for store policies when they are heavily biased to their corporate interests and then force them on developers and device owners is inherently a conflict of interest. Device owner rights, data rights and right to repair need to be protected in law or highly disposable devices which only serve corporate interests will remain the norm. I really hope laws world wide catch up to protect owners and developers.

I can imagine free unlimited support for nothing or even less than 10 euro isn't realistic. It sounds like adopting a functional sustainable model which serves both the community and your interests is needed.

Front end support could be on community members be that forums, IRC channels, Discord etc.

If you are going to be involved figure out what you need for a living wage and to be happy and only offer that.

Less than 10 euro for life of free updates and unlimited support is a good deal but isn't sustainable for you.

Perhaps offering pro features paid once and a subscription model for individualized priority support would work?

Stay well,

Robert Hardy
[Android Apps and Games] Rococos:
Like Marcel said before, there ain't many replies here addressing the how and why.

I am a pro user and FairEmail is the best email app. Filters, anti-tracking, keywords, etc. No other app comes close. K-9 is years behind.

As for the how and why Marcel, I'd stick to paid updates on a quarterly base, for example. Gives you the piece of mind to work at your own pace, only mind the paying supporters, ignore the non-paying choosing beggars / cheapskates. Focus on F-Droid which is probably the bulk of your paying, privacy-minded, users.

Ditch Google... Most paying supporters are using LineageIS or other custom ROM. Your brilliant piece of software is probably not praised or understood at all by the common sheeple.

I'd pay for updates on a trimester or quarterly. And I'm not even talking about feature requests. Just maintaining it.

My 2 cents...

All the best to you and your loved ones.

Thanks for FairEmail
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
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You can have it, without updates and support.
[Android Apps and Games] mkasimd:
@Dr-Bob the app does not send any contact data to anyone else. The only things that happen are:

The sender and recipient as well as email content are sent / received from the email server, as this is the basic requirement for an email app

The app might send the email address of the user to the email provider when registering to the server to open an IMAP or SMTP session for receiving or sending mails. Again a requirement for an email app to work properly as many providers require the email address as username for authentication

If using Favicons was explicitly enabled by the user, fairemail loads the image https://domain.tld/favicon.ico for any mail received from user@domain.tld (deactivated by default)

If using libravatar, gravatar or similar services was explicitly enabled by the user, FairEmail might send a hash of the sender's address to the avatar service to receive an avatar. The email address itself isn't sent (deactivated by default)

Google claims something that does not happen and won't tell what it is.

Now, people like you come over here and claim Google would have explained everything. No they didn't. If you claim so, come on, look into the source code and give us a file name and a line number where the claimed violation happens. Here's the source code: https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail

Asking Marcel to disprove Google's ridiculous claims is ridiculous in itself. It's like the police arresting somebody at random, telling him "you're under arrest for murder" but not telling who was murdered when and where. But then also expecting that random guy to prove his innovence. Keeping him arrested despite the police couldn't prove his guilt.

Does that make any sense to you? If not, then be reasonable and stop complaining.
[Android Apps and Games] de_Wolf:
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We are on different levels. Your statement cannot affect me at all.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Without this discussion it would have mattered more.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
{Mod edit: Quoted post has been deleted}

If that's true, Google is stupid, isn't it?
[Android Apps and Games] MajorWinters:
Best wishes for you @M66B!
[Android Apps and Games] Irish_Dude:
i installed K9 mail today and also PEP email client after using fairemail for years.

When I installed and used these 2 apps it felt like I downgraded from a mcclaren F1 to a Toyota corolla.

Nothing comes close to fairemail.

Id be more than happy to pay a yearly sub if you ever decide to keep developing Fairemail.

Best of luck either way Marcel
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
{Mod edit: Quoted post has been deleted}

I rather like to leave it as it is, as it illustrates one of the problems I am having with this project.

@Oswald Boelcke
[Android Apps and Games] garak:
But didn't you say you use the email address to log into the server? And the email address is a part of the contact list. So the condition is fulfilled that you upload something from the contact list. As far as I understand it, it is not about the whole contact list, one field from it is enough.
[Android Apps and Games] jarlanddonnell:
If that ends up being their rationale I'd say it's borderline malicious interpretation (on Google, not you).
[Android Apps and Games] mkasimd:
If that is the reason why Google blocked the app, then all email apps supporting IMAP, POP3 and/or SMTP should be removed. Because all of them do this. It is a very basic requirement for an email app to work..
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
I am glad that there are still useful comments like your as well.

The question is if this is a prominent disclosure:

"As indicated in Google Play’s User Data policy, a prominent disclosure should be presented in cases where users may not reasonably expect their personal and sensitive user data to be required for policy-compliant features or functionality within an app."

https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/11150561

I think this can be reasonably expected because the email address is entered into the app as well.

Let look from a different angle: should the Chrome browser declare that it is sending the domain name to a third party DNS server too? I think not.

Let's make it even more absurd: should the app every time when you send a message ask if it is okay to send the email address of the recipient to the SMTP server?

Everything related to privacy is documented here:

https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail/blob/master/PRIVACY.md

One of the first things I did when I received the policy violation notice is check the privacy policy because it documents all cases were something is sent to the internet.
[Android Apps and Games] garak:
Google has not said it is prohibited, but they are missing an explicit statement in the guidelines as to what it is needed for. That's my understanding of this issue.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Additionally: favicons use the domain name of email addresses, similar to how a web browser uses the domain name of websites. Also, anything which sends something to the internet is disabled by default (see the privacy policy). There is also a clear warning that using favicons is not privacy friendly.

Note that Gravatars and Libravatars use a hashed email address. Using Gravatars explicitly requires a privacy policy according to Google (this was told me before). I think this is not justifiable, but who am I?
[Android Apps and Games] garak:
Is this then compared against the app in the review? I mean in the automatic process?
[Android Apps and Games] de_Wolf:
However, FE does not seem to access the contact list. In my case, FE does not have access to the contacts.

Or is something else meant?
[Android Apps and Games] garak:
I just wonder how they do it: they evaluate the app and find a field from the contact list. Now how do they check if you have entered the correct contract data? They must have a form for that, otherwise they can't check it. Maybe they are missing the information there...?
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
I would be willing to declare this in the Play store developer console, if there was any room for an explanation, but it will just be "is sharing contact list info to third parties" in the Play store description if I do this. I refuse to agree with his.
[Android Apps and Games] garak:
That's the question I ask myself all the time....
[Android Apps and Games] garak:
And there is no possibility to specify certain values like e.g. a field from contact list?
[Android Apps and Games] heinhuiz:
The email address used to log into the email server is not coming from the contact list. You can connect to the server while you are not in your own address book.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
I don't know and in fact this is a violation of EU regulation 2019/1150 as well ...
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
No, there isn't.
[Android Apps and Games] garak:
Another consideration: FE does match incoming mails against the contact list to resolve the name and also allows to send mails from the contact list. Could this be meant?
[Android Apps and Games] mkasimd:
I can talk out of legal view using EU-GDPR as I'm also the data protection official within the German Lib Dems and have read most provisions thoroughly:

when accessing a service oneself, the data subject's consent to access that service is implied and doesn't require any further explicit questionnaire. If any data collection and processing is absolutely necessary to provide the requested service, then again, consent is implied and doesn't require asking for it explicitly. Those must be mentioned in the privacy policy, that's all.

Only any unnecessary things such as tracking, personalized ads, etc. require consent. And requiring that consent to access the service is likely illegal as the consent isn't given "freely".

FairEmail has a valid privacy policy. It does not collect or process any unnecessary data without the user's explicit consent. Not even by reasoning with legitimate interest. It has a data collection and processing where it is absolutely necessary.

As Marcel quoted Google's own post:

FairEmail doesn't need to make any prominent disclosure about sending an email address to the email server of the user's own choice after the user himself has configured the app to use that specific email server / provider.

Edit: as for the contact list, it's reasonable to assume that any email app has some form of a contact list. So I'd say users should reasonably expect it -> Google has nothing to complain. Furthermore, accessing the in-service on-device contacts list requires explicit consent already as the user has to give the app the permission for it.
[Android Apps and Games] garak:
But if Google's logic is: a) FE accesses the contact list to resolve names and profile pictures b) FE can SEND data to a server c) so FE is able to spy on data.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
The problem is that they don't tell why the app is considered as spyware.

I did remove favicons from the latest Play store test release and it was apparently approved. However, it happened before too that a release was approved and that there still was a policy violation warning later. In other words there is a sword of Damocles hanging in the air.
[Android Apps and Games] mkasimd:
Then their logic is broken. Privacy policies are not just about what one could do, but what one actually does.

Marcel doesn't have to publish anything the app won't do, because the app isn't programmed to do that. The privacy policy needs to include things that the app actually does, nothing more than that. Google cannot expect Marcel to "disclose" anything more than that. Any such expectation would be unreasonable itself.
[Android Apps and Games] ROO3VER:
Probably one of the 1 star people:rolleyes::rolleyes:
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
I can imagine switching people to K9 mail in this situation. Maybe they didn't read this yet?

https://faircode.eu/faq.html
[Android Apps and Games] chris122380:
Sorry but I could never use K9.

I have a response to this comment.

"Would it be an option to distribute the app on GitHub, F-Droid, etc only?

About 99% of the people using the app download it from the Play store."

Couldn't this be true about most apps but those apps not in the Play Store aren't dead? Example Newpipe.

The only reason I continue downloading it from the Play Store is to keep my purchased license. I then pull the updates from GitHub. Is it possible that the majority of those downloads were to be able to purchase the Pro license using Google? We also have to take into account too that there are users who don't know about F-droid or GitHub and those two would be counted in the 99% of the Play Store.
[Android Apps and Games] sssubito:
This is a sad outcome and again poor handling of devs by Google. This automated app review stuff is one thing but the absence of ability to escalate matters properly with real humans @google for devs will turn out to be a shoot into their stinky foot. That's very disappointing to say the least.

Not sure if it can cheer up Marcel a little bit: I have been a happy user of FairEmail Pro for quite some time and I want to say a big Thank You! for your work you've put into this app. Will continue to use it as long as possible (and in the hopes it's not becoming some kind of security risk, but I assume it's well enough made so far). Well, Marcel, relax and "enjoy" your new "freedom", life goes on...

Cheers from a happy FE Pro user!
[Android Apps and Games] ROO3VER:
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If you feel eveyone here is dumb you must be the smart one right? Of course you are, you're @Dr-Bob. Of all the smart posts you made here today this one:

{Mod edit: Quoted post has been deleted}

is the smartest. I'm not a German nor do i feel any special affection for German people so actually i'm not affected by your post.

Just out of curiosity how XDA handles racist or at the very least discriminating posts, especially coming from smart people like you, i reported your post.

Maybe other dumb people just as curious as me might do the same so we can all find out what happens...