yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] quicksite:
JZ - a request - Isn't it time to start a dedicated thread for Opera Mini beta 5?

I know there is something of conventional wisdom here at XDA -- which is that for any given app, you have one thread and it rolls on and on for years and years.

It's really, though, very frustrating and unnecessarily time consuming. As you know, information goes obsolete after x months -- and even though you modify Post #1, all the posts that follow, from others, are often out of date -- and this become a huge source of visual and informational clutter.

I have seen other app developers here open a new thread from each major new release... And, at minimum, ensuring a thread doesn't start in 2008 -- and we're clear into a year later.

Also, as you know, the Torch Iris browser is no longer being made for WM, thus this adds more confusion.

To me, it would be extremely helpful to create an updated new thread, and feature the issue that 9 out of 10 people have problems with: Opera Mini and all the javabed signed/unsigned crap. It shouldn't be this hard to figure out which versions of Opera Mini to use, and which versions of javabed... but all your recommended source threads are from 2008 -- and new versions have all been developed.

I have been wanting to use your app -- and solve all the basic issues people love about it -- like making Opera Mini the default browser. But I have tried over and over -- and it is still very unclear to me:

Which version of Opera Mini beta 5? You point people to the opera site to download some version. But many people at XDA fix the issues of signed/unsigned by releasing Opera Mini beta 5 bundled with javabed, so there's no confusion and extra set of hurdles.

If, however, you were to say "DON'T USE any of the Opera Mini beta 5 versions that are bundled by others here at XDA; just use the version offered at opera's site", then that alone would be immensely helpful.

As powerful and as brilliant as your app is, integrating mortscript, it causes people like myself major headaches (i mean literally) to try to sort through hundreds of obsolete posts, click to view all the linked threads to this and that version of javabed -- and they're all a year old.

What would be the harm in a new thread, labeled as 2009 JZ SmartMort etc, to streamline the huge set of variable complexity so people can use the great new Opera Mini beta 5, have it be default, and be done with it and good to go? I wish you'd consider it.

/my editorial opinion is that threads on this site older than six months should be retired and new ones started. If people used the naming convention, as some do already, with a DATE right after [APP], then there is no confusion with search engine if there is a newer thread. if anything, this would HELP in sifting through search results. This is the single greatest information design flaw of this entire site. And it could all be solved in an instant, by adjusting to a convention of "no threads older than 6 months; create revised threads and date them in the title".

/quicksite
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
That must have taken a breath or two :)

Point taken... as much as I hate to break the fluidity of a single thread, I also understand the frustration of reading through old junk that has been fixed eons ago or was a one-off on a single user's device. When I release version 1.6 --- I will do it in a new thread.

To address your Opera Mini point, any version of JBed even bundled with Opera Mini 4 or 5 should work perfectly fine with my app but some CAB makers forget important pieces of JBed like policy.utf or registry entries and those users do clog up my thread like crazy.

I'll also see if Torch Iris is truly gone... that sucks, I really like that browser :(

Thanks for the suggestion and the complements! Both are always welcome :)

JZ

UPDATE:

Damn RIM... they bought Torch Mobile so definitely no more WM versions. Does anyone know what was the last version and where I can download it. Last I have is version 1.1.9

I'll still leave the support for it simply because I like the browser --- unless I learn that there is de-activation logic to break the app.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] quicksite:
A very gracious reply, thank you. Yes, I had a thesis in mind, and I guess it was time to pop out :rolleyes: . But I am glad you recognize I am highly complimentary about your app and work. In fact this reply alone from you is testimony to your unparalleled user support... Making new versions before a vacation, coming back from vacation making new versions. I am glad you took my comments in the positive light in which I wrote them -- even though i had a beef :) .

Okay, so let me point to the one I am talking about and perhaps you could test to see if it functions properly with your app? -- because this guy (boxer112) has been consistent, with his own version control numbering:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=4549381

(Unfortunately he was "booo'd" off the stage for opening a new thread on Opera Mini beta 5, so he ended up giving a link and posting it to:

http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?p=1170396#post1170396

Version 1.1.9 was their last Windows Mobile release, so you have their last version. For others: There are a few places still hosting it, but not many :)

Here: http://www.filestube.com/d555cde39ab6174d03e9,g/iris-browser-1-1-9.html

which leads to a Rapidshare file here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/253601439/iris-browser-1.1.9.cab

Yes, I was really pleased with that browser and had just made it my browser of choice for logging in to wifi cafes where you have to refresh "home" link, hit their Terms and Conditions page, then sign in. This is another of my big pet peeves --- and this would be a great thing for SmartMort to tackle next. ... But just when I had compared this process with skyfire, netfront, i.e., opera mobile, and Iris -- with Iris enabling this process the quickest and with least "security page warning" interference -- poof, RIM acquires them :)

Yes, definitely. That release alone is a great contender amongst WM browsers.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
Hey a valid point deserves a valid retort :)

Just tried the CAB above on a clean WM 6.1 Pro emulator and my app worked like a charm from the get-go. No options needed changing at all.

However, I HIGHLY want to sway people away from CABs like that. Even though this guy did a decent job there are MANY flaws with the concept.

The JBed install steps on the original JBed version you have on your device.

If you install a CAB like that, then a few Java apps, then uninstall the CAB. It will leave behind compiled Java content in the AppDB folder and never clean it up because a CAB only removes what it puts into place.

How hard is it to download Opera Mini while sitting in the can killing time :) Then use my app to re-create the shortcut in like 5 clicks. Much easier to stay with current Opera Mini version using this route then hunting down the next CAB maker.

It's just so weird to see over 2000 downloads on PPCGeeks of something that was mashed together with very minor benefits yet many flaws that were not considered. Just MHO... ah hell, not so humble opinion :)

Thanks again for the links and the updated info!

JZ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] quicksite:
Installing Opera Mini beta 5 when using JZ SmartMort - and a Recommended Template

Okay, I learned something very impt. ... Now, I know you will pull your hair out, but....

...HAD THAT ABOVE been explicitly stated in a very prominent place I would have never sought a jbed-mini .CAB to begin with. My job is UX Design (User Experience, Information Design, Usability Design), and were I removing all clutter and confusion, I would take into account, first, that most users don't know how the big jigsaw puzzles fit. They (me) learn one set of rules & procedures here, probably in the forum related to their phone, and ROMs etc, and have no idea that different factors apply in addition.

CASE STUDY: It was very reasonable for someone (me) to presume, right or wrong, that EVERYONE who uses Opera Mini (other than developers) uses that kind of installation method for Opera Mini -- because we've all experienced the B.S. confusion one has to go through re unsigned, signed, checking off boxes to accept next time but ask again the following session, etc. So, many helpers @XDA help people like us out, who don't know how to hack registry settings, or how to interact with javabed, so we can just install and use Opera Mini without all the crap obstacles.

It was only when very recently I discovered your app and the ability to manage multiple browsers very efficiently, set a default browser, etc, that I have ever heard the caution you mention above. It doesn't matter whether you have possibly said it 100 times within the year old+ thread, but my money says you have probably *never* explicitly said that.

So if I were being paid on a job to make it bullet-proof clear, knowing ALL the sources of mis-information that are out there which an end user has no way of knowing "who's right?", this is what I would do:

1. State in a sentence what the app does in general, adding more detail in a Post 2 or Post 3

2. MUST READ Installation Notes: (and again, I would keep it top-level, and, if necessary, write a more extended explanation in a Post 2 or 3)

3. Followed by caveats and disclaimers re not responsible for your phone.

4. Followed by the Most Current Version #,

5. The download link.

6. It would be my cardinal rule that the most current version # is bullet-proof obvious in the download link attachments ... and all the clutter of prior versions, and especially the version history, be pushed to post 2 or 3 or 4.

--

So, here's my sample -- with placeholder copy, not meant to be the actual words. This is how I would treat every app release.

Well, there you have it, my first pass at a Recommended New Application Release Thread Structure. ;)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
Very nice and thorough. I will definitely consider most of your well-written content for the first post. Reason why my structure is the way that it currently is, is simply because my readme.txt (have a look at it under \Program Files\JZ) matches that post structure for easy copy pasting. I update my readme.txt then grab each section and paste into its place on the thread. It's hard enough to maintain software, so maintaining a complicated thread layout is another time consuming venture. I like to make it simple to maintain.

Thanks again!

JZ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] addicus:
What up JZ? I'm not looking for a new thread. I love THIS thread because I can find everything I need including old versions and fixes to old issues. Although I use every new version you create (gets me the newest mortscript w/o going anywhere else) I haven't had the need for a new version for quite a while. If Opera Mini 5 hadn't been released I'd be using the version that was worked w/o it. Just a little feedback from a long time user since the squeaky wheel gets the oil.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
New thread or not?

That's a great point as well and certainly a valued opion addicus. Anybody else care to comment on the preference.

I don't want to flip-flop but there are a few negative considerations for starting a new thread and some possible solutions that I'll outline below:

This thread is indexed on all major search engines.

Links to this thread are posted all over the web.

People have e-mail notification set up for this thread already.

Maybe right on the first post I should post something like "version 1.5.8.5 commentary and solutions start on post 540 everything before that is older information" and that will point users to current info only.

quicksite's complaint was searching old info is useless. I just did a search for "jbed" and it sorted the hits in chronological/descending order with dates shown as well, so that seems sufficient enough for me to know what's old and what's not.

I should also post some of quicksite's notes to alleviate at least some confusion on JBed and CAB installs --- maybe some of that verbiage is all on need on the first posts.

Feel free to comment folks,

JZ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] addicus:
I like the idea of leaving a note/index mark where information starts for new versions. I actually wish that were a standard for the chefs as it can be absolute hell finding where the new information begins in multi-rom threads.

-

OT - I see you're in Hollywood. I'm in Chino and assuming you're a Lakers fan. Have you visited Lakersground.net yet?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
I like all of the LA home teams, been to at least 5 Laker games. But I'm not a huge sports fan other than live games. With music/singing, being a computer nerd and working as one and to top off with night school, I'm pretty much tapped out of hobbies :)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] [deXter]:
Although I like the idea of having separate threads, I don't mind if everything is in this one thread, provided it's indexed well in the front page - which btw, needs some serious overhauling.

My pet peeve with this thread is that there's no link to the changes since the last stable release (on the front page). I feel that in addition to the link, there should be a short summary of the most important changes in the betas (like say, support for Opera Mini 5 and more compatibility with WM6.5) so that people who wish to try out SmartMort and need OM5 support/etc will straight-away go for the beta.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
Yeah, I should do that... smart folks would've figured it out based on Opera Mini 5 release date :)

In general, it's hard to satisfy everyone's esthetic desires for a first thread. I'll give it some thought and see what can make it more organized --- but like I said, it's hard enought to write the software and document it then worry about organizing the info for web-reading.

Thanks for the feedback!

JZ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
First post slightly updated

I added some verbiage and updated the first posts including the release notes.

In all fairness my app works perfectly fine with OperaMini + JBed CABs and Opera Mini is just one browser of many with too many caveats to be within scope of my first post --- but I certainly added my recommendation, not using a CAB is a suggestion not a must.

I did not go crazy trying to re-shuffle everything and not sure how much of it I will do. More importantly it's hard to conform to every user's desire of what the first post should look like. I rarely read that stuff myself. Instead I love screenshots as they tell the tale. Simply put, I have limited time to deal with that particular piece.

Thanks!

JZ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] sancho1234:
I replace the ROM on my HTC Touch Pro2. It has JBlend Java engine. The JZ Smart can't find the JBlend. What I look at for you, to can to change the program?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
Open up JBlend then some Java application... then take a screenshot for me and post it. I need to verify if JBlend is fullscreen or not. If it is, I might start supporting JBlend if it comes on brand new HTC device, it would make sense for me to do that.

I'm also starting to mess around with the few JBlend versions that I found on the web to see what I can do.

Thanks!

JZ

UPDATE:

To take a screenshot, this is a great program to use: http://www.mymobiler.com/

UPDATE2:

I tried JBlend but the versions that I found (Samsung Omni, so it's a pretty new version) and it's NOT full-screen that means that my pixel color detection is not going to work. My suggestion for you would be to install JBed (links to JBed threads are on the first post). Still post the screenshot because if it ends up being fullscreen, I will definitely proceed looking into supporting it.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] sancho1234:
Thank you! :)

URL of JBlend: \Windows\JBlend_AMS.exe

The screenshots:
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
Look above at my updates... I need a screenshot of a running application not just JBlend. Open Opera Mini and take a screenshot.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] sancho1234:
Oh, sorry.

The OM5b and OM4.2 screens:
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
Yep, that's what I thought it's NOT fullscreen so my pixel tests for certain colors will fail. Install JBed instead... quote from first page of thread:

6. JBed Java Midlet

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=407667

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=370786

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=384881

http://www.pocketpcmag.com/cms/index.php?q=blogs/3/2266

http://www.winmobiletech.com/092007M...tyAndMain.html

http://www.winmobiletech.com/092007MidletBible/Jbed.zip

Thanks!

JZ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] sancho1234:
Ok, thank you. I will install the Esmertec Jbed, I like it. :)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] sancho1234:
What is the prefered settings for the Esmertec Jbed with Opera Mini 5 beta?

JZ: Paste?, URL?, Inline?

OM: Fullscreen?, Inline?

I can not set the JZ for OM5.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
Give me more information... what happens? You should get an error with my app at least saying that it can't find Opera Mini 5 running and then give some number (colors) readout.

Leave all defaults and it will work (in a normal situation). Don't mess with any settings in the beginning. My defaults are set to the same as Opera Mini 5 defaults, inlineediting=ON is the default. Fullscreen=ON is also a default.

Once you get it working, I like the following settings:

InlineEditing = Off ---- in both Opera Mini 5 and in JZBrowserSettings

FullScreen is entirely up to you.

Take a screenshot of Opera Mini 5 RUNNING and save as BMP not JPG. Attach to the thread, I will verify colors and hopefully see some error message. Remember BMP format...

Thanks!

JZ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JimboJoe:
The installation of the last beta version doesn't seem to work on a non-English ROM...

I got an error message during the installation process when trying to write something to Windows\StartUp... and in French ROMs, this directory is named "Windows\Démarrage".
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
Yep, you're right. Totally my fault...

I've fixed it fairly quickly but if you could possibly post for me all of the content under this reg path, I'd appreciate it:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\Explorer\Shell Folders

At the very least let me know what the StartUp value equals.

Thanks!

JZ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JimboJoe:
Here are my info :

- Application Data = "\Application Data"

- Desktop = "\Windows\Bureau"

- Favorites = "\Windows\Favoris"

- Fonts = "\Windows\Polices"

- My Documents = "\My Documents"

- Program Files = "\Program Files"

- Programs = "\Windows\Programmes"

- Recent = "\Windows\Récent"

- StartUp = "\Windows\Démarrage"

- Windows = "\Windows"
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
Perfect, if you can, PM me with your e-mail address and I will attach the new CAB for you to try on your French ROM. BTW my stuff might end up in JunkMail as it's a home-based e-mail server.

Thanks!

JZ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] sancho1234:
Thank you for your patience. ;)

Look at my settings on the pictures.

When I open a link, the Opera Mini 5 has no action. After 5-10 sec the bottom of the page is dropping once.

Do you think I create a video about it?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] owilsky:
Why? I hope you won't hard code it... simply read that value during installation.

I remember having seen this error too. I have a German TouchPro but I am on an WWE ROM (see signature), so now I wonder what this could be...
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
No hardcoding --- I'm using the StartUp value instead of Windows value and \StartUp appended.

I worked it out with JimboJoe, he got my new CAB and it works fine now. Next beta will have the fix.

Thanks!

JZ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
Sure, create a video, zip it up and attach it... my app should at least give an error, I need to see that error also. It should take less than a minute to receive an error.

Your screenshots are not useful because you ignored me :) BMP not JPG --- JPG's loose the true color of the pixels but BMP is full-color. Also for some reason your images are 384x640 pixels --- I thought WVGA was 480x800 --- do not resize your images (maybe done automatically by XDA) just zip them up instead --- and remember BMP format.

Thanks!

JZ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] sancho1234:
Ok, I will upload a video about my problem. :)

3 screenshots about Opera Mini 5 in BMP format:http://xdaforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=240856&stc=1&d=1256590283
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] sancho1234:
Video about my problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBuvGWJkdoQ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
Weird, your screenshots look PERFECT. The colors are correct. If my app is not pressing keys correctly then you might want to change the Opera URL Method under:

JZSettings > JZBrowser > OperaMini5 Options > OpenURLMethod

Maybe it's a keyboard driver issue and it's simply not pressing the right keys on a French keyboard layout.

Since your colors are good, now I understand why my application is not giving any errors. That makes more sense. Try changing your OpenURLMethod and let me know which one works. MouseClicks will work but that is the last one to try...

Thanks!

JZ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Sneeuwtijger:
Or use Total Commander on you PPC - see http://www.ghisler.com/pocketpc.htm - very cool app to look into your register ;)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Sneeuwtijger:
Patch IE

One question - what should exactly happen when i choose :

Added an option to Patch Internet Explorer Icon in the Installer script. Happens when :MSPIE gets invoked.

I used this option and all IE Explorer icons are mort-script icons :(
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] JZ SmartMort:
The link for "Internet Explorer" is usually right under \Windows\Start Menu will be changed. Microsoft uses :MSPIE inside of the link file which checks that registry key and executes whatever is in there (HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Shell\Rai\:MSPIE) but because JZ SmartMort takes over that key, you're seeing your shortcuts do that.

My patch should have the exact opposite effect. Meaning, the original MS shortcut has :MSPIE which points to my script, hence the Mort icons. When you use my patch though, iexplore.exe is thrown into that link file therefore the iexplore icon should now be used.

Here's the original code below... I'm also attaching a script to be able to flip between ":MSPIE" and "iexplore.exe". Copy the file to the phone and run it on the device. My new version will have this flip method.

If (FileExists(SystemPath("StartMenu") & "\Internet Explorer.lnk"))
IEfile = ReadFile(SystemPath("StartMenu") & "\Internet Explorer.lnk")
IEFile = Replace(IEFile, ":MSPIE", "iexplore.exe")
WriteFile(SystemPath("StartMenu") & "\Internet Explorer.lnk", IEFile)
EndIf

Here's the code to flip between the two values and it's attached...

If (FileExists(SystemPath("StartMenu") & "\Internet Explorer.lnk"))
IEfile = ReadFile(SystemPath("StartMenu") & "\Internet Explorer.lnk")

If (Find(IEFile,":MSPIE") > 0)
IEFile = Replace(IEFile, ":MSPIE", "iexplore.exe")
WriteFile(SystemPath("StartMenu") & "\Internet Explorer.lnk", IEFile)
Message("*PATCHED^NL^Now the Start Menu shortcut will use iexplore.exe directly.")
ElseIf (Find(IEFile,"iexplore.exe") > 0)
IEFile = Replace(IEFile, "iexplore.exe", ":MSPIE")
WriteFile(SystemPath("StartMenu") & "\Internet Explorer.lnk", IEFile)
Message("*RESTORED^NL^Now the Start Menu shortcut will use the :MSPIE registry value, which points to the JZ Browser Script. This causes the IE icon to display the MortScript icon and when executed, runs JZ Browser Script.")
EndIf
EndIf

Thanks!

JZ
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Sneeuwtijger:
I am sorry, flip / flip back / flip again - nothing is happening :confused: