yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch CDMA Android Development] f00bar:
Sorry if I wasn't clear -- I didn't mean to imply I expected you to work on those things. Just was mentioning the list of stuff you *might* work on was entirely kernel work, so there's no real point to wait for you to update a new image (because you have nothing to update -- correct me if I'm wrong).

Personally, I agree these things are a waste of time. I posted this back while you were gone http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=3094248&postcount=2553 and the responses weren't too happy, but at the end of the day it seems to me sinking time into android-wide stuff would be more useful than sinking time info vogue-specific stuff.

I made a few more updates, I'll post an image when I get home today:

- Made landscape keyboard smaller (take up 1/2 of screen instead of all of it)

- Include a default block.txt in system.img to be used if there is none on SDcard -- I haven't heard any feedback on this -- is that because it works perfectly or because noone's using it?

- Removed gold box on maps (this wasn't anything intentional by google -- it's intended to be a small google logo with a transparent background; it's a gold box due to some versioning bugs)
[Touch CDMA Android Development] katmandu421:
Awesome. Great priorities, I look forward to both calibration (for better keyboard accuracy) and Headphone (aLastFM!!)

Cheers!!
[Touch CDMA Android Development] tErbo b00st:
what is block.txt for? hahaha
[Touch CDMA Android Development] katmandu421:
Works perfectly here!

I fat-finger the keypad as it is due to the calibration, but we'll give it a whirl.

Cheers
[Touch CDMA Android Development] Komofu:
Question

How can you modify the system.img file? I have mounted the file in linux and was only able to access it as a read only file. What am I doing wrong?
[Touch CDMA Android Development] f00bar:
You can't. Cramfs is a read-only filesystem (like an ISO) -- you can just create it once. If you want to modify it, mount it, copy the contents somewhere else, modify, and recreate it with mkcramfs.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] corypaul:
Hey f00bar have posted that new system.img with those new features or updates
[Touch CDMA Android Development] katmandu421:
Done <--CLICK HERE TO DISCUSS APPS!
[Touch CDMA Android Development] moekind:
does facebook poker work in the browser?
[Touch CDMA Android Development] Landon4576:
Uhhh

When I run Haret with the default, I get a can't load data.img. I don't even think there WAS a data.img in the download
[Touch CDMA Android Development] katmandu421:
Button Mapping

I've seen some mapping posts in this thread, but not a whole lot of definitive answers. Is it necessary to modify the kernel? That is one task that I was about to attempt, but will hold off until I research a bit more.

It seems that long press works since it is used in the latest files on the power button to bring up the recent app list and the end button to bring up the power and sounds settings. I think ideally, a much more intuitive layout would be as follows:

Simply swap the power and end button for starters - I can't imagine this to be that difficult, but I could be wrong. Think about it, assuming we all came from winmo, The power button turns the screen off and a long press brings up the option to shut down. The end button would then go home or, if long pressed, bring up the app list.

It would be great to have volume buttons that actually worked, so the next step would be to work on those. That means that back and menu must be remapped. The only option would be the talk button: short press would go back (very intuitive imo) and long press could bring up the menu. I find myself using these two combination quite a bit, so to not have to move your finger around would be nice to keep.

I would stay away from the D-Pad, it's pretty handy for tiny links in the browser and navigating apps that dont fit just right on our screen resolution.

To Summarize:

Power button: Screen Off; Long Press-Power/Silent option

End Key: Home; Long Press-Recent App List

Talk Key: Back; Long Press-Menu

Volume Keys - VOLUME!

We could then actually use the phone with a single hand position instead of constantly reaching up to the volume for back/menu!! Does anyone else find themselves needing two hands to navigate efficiently? I know I do.

What is your opinion, do you think this would help advance the project? Is someone willing to make these changes to distribute to the community? Any help would be greatly appreciated certainly by myself...and I'm sure others as well!

EDIT: One caveat I just thought of: There may be an issue when receiving a call unless there is a seperate button map for incoming calls. Currently when receiving an call the Volume up (Back) button silences the call (caller hears several rings, then voicemail), the End key ignores the call (sends caller straight to voicemail), and the Talk key obviously answers the call. If we make the changes listed above without being able to define seperate behaviors for incoming call states, then when you went to answer the call (Talk key) the phone would ignore (mapped to Silence!) Any thoughts?

Cheers!
[Touch CDMA Android Development] Komofu:
I like this idea however we could use the huge center button on the D pad for the Menu button.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] katmandu421:
The center d-pad button is quite necessary for many apps such as ShopSavvy, iSkoot and other apps that don't fit our screen just right. For instance, in ShopSavvy the Submit button is just barely visible, not enough to touch from the screen but a few pixels show so that you know when it is highlighted, then you can use the center d-pad button to click.

Long presses in Android are quite nice, they seem to require a shorter duration than winmo. Try out the End key to see how fast the Power/Silent mune comes up. I think activating menus would be just as smooth, then just single click the key again and it is closed (Talk key mapped to back).
[Touch CDMA Android Development] ernestchi:
can someone post f00bar's latest zImage file? the link seems to be broken, thanks.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] f00bar:
Remapping keys is easy, just modify /usr/keylayout/qwerty.kl; you don't need to modify the kernel. Changing volume during a call does nothing for me -- I'm guessing maybe dzo didn't implement it.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] corypaul:
Update

Hey f00bar have you posted the new system.img yet.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] f00bar:
Here is new system.img: http://vogue-android.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-update.html

Could the people who are saying "link is broken" be more specific? What does that page show?

One other thing, dzo, does your phone get the proper timezone from the tower? Mine is setting the clock to the right local time but with GMT as the time zone. The main annoyance with this is it makes e-mail sent from the device have the wrong time.

Is NITZ different on CDMA maybe?
[Touch CDMA Android Development] katmandu421:
Great, I'll work on that some tonight. I'm using OI File Manager to look for /usr folder, but can't find it. Do I need to use terminal or get root, etc? Or do I create it?

Thanks!
[Touch CDMA Android Development] corypaul:
Comment

Nice work every thing is good, i still cant get my yahoo account on it. but every thing else is good. Thanks
[Touch CDMA Android Development] corypaul:
go to root and than system folder not sys folder and scroll down and u will find it.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] katmandu421:
OK, so I have an Ubuntu machine that I am trying to mount the phone/sdcard on in order to try playing around with the layout. I tried the tutorial on myhtcphone that states you need to install wm5torage on the phone in order to mount in Linux. I did just that, but my Linux still doesn't recognize. Does anyone knowif wm5togare works with winmo6.1? It seems to run fine, on the handset, but again, nothing on the Ubuntu box. Any other ways to accomplish the mounting?

Thanks!
[Touch CDMA Android Development] unsungboxer:
Yes, I use WM5storage on my vogue, and Ubuntu as my OS. You will need to install WM5storage, and run it.

Make sure "removable class" is checked

And uncheck both the options in "menu > troubleshooting"

hit activate.

Ubuntu should use your phone as a card reader, and mount the SDcard. For me it appears on my desktop as an icon. Remember to right click and "unmount" before deactivating wm5storage, or your changes might not be saved.

-unsung
[Touch CDMA Android Development] corypaul:
Task Manager

Can anybody make a task manager for the android
[Touch CDMA Android Development] grktaurus83:
Unfortunately, Google designed Android in such a way that the user can't control when a program is closed. This is "automagically" handled in the background by Android.

This is something I've already ranted about in this thread so I'll leave it at that (but I think that "feature" is utter crap).
[Touch CDMA Android Development] grktaurus83:
On a completely separate note (and just to start some idle thread activity while people are off testing new builds and tinkering with settings)...

Has anyone seen the Palm Pre (running "WebOS")? Looks rather interesting. And even though Palm is the last kid on the block in the "new OS" race, it looks like they might have something solid there.

Check out a hands-on video:

http://www.intomobile.com/2009/01/0...-from-the-palm-lounge-ces-las-vegas-2009.html
[Touch CDMA Android Development] f00bar:
Actually, it would not be too hard to make a task manager. I think you could even do it entirely in java -- take a look at android.os.Process (look in the source code, not the online docs -- many of the functions are "hidden" from the docs). You just need to give your app some CAN_KILL_STUFF permission.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it utter crap. I think they make a good point that one should not need a user task manager, as the OS should handle it. The problem only problem with this view that I see is their assumption that programs will use resources in a sensible manner and not do blatantly retarded things. This is true of programs written by Google, but not neccesarily true of all apps in the market made by anyone (for a particularly hilarious example, see the "MemoryUp Memory booster" app, that does nothing but repeatedly garbage collect it's own heap in a while(1) loop). I agree with them that a task manager should not be part of the regularly-used features (as in WM), but I do think that it would be useful to have one for "emergency" purposes to kill rogue apps. It should be buried somewhere in settings or something, not a regularly used app, and really should be followed by deleting whatever app you had to kill (in my opinion).

In fact, there's already something in "development tools" or "settings" that shows a list of processes. I don't think I've ever tried long-touching the entries -- it should be easy to make long-touch bring up a "kill process?" dialog (maybe it even does this already?). I can add this to my next system.img if people want it.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] f00bar:
ugh, last image was bad, phone app was broken. If you got the one I posted earlier today, get this one instead:

http://vogue-android.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-update.html

Edit: I'm pretty sure this should fix phone bug, but I haven't tested this on vogue. My SDCard has just died (512mb one that came with it). Hopefully I can get a new one tomorrow.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] katmandu421:
I'm using WM5torage v1.75, I don't have a "menu", only thing at the bottom bar is Done and Activate/Deactivate. The options I have are removable class (checked), DSK 1 SD Memory Card or FLASH (I have SD checked) and LEDS/Vibrate ( I assume these are for troubleshooting) both "Off"

When I active and connect to the USB to Ubuntu I get nothing. I have mounted other devices in the past without issues; iPods, Nokia Tablet's, etc.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] josuech:
I flashed my vogue with the latest radio and installed android, unfortunally my internet still does not work. Is there something I need to change or settings I need to update to make this happen? I turned on and connected togga.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] prairiefire:
I think that this idea is a fantastic one. Currently you cannot kill processes with a long press (in, ya, either dev tools or settings, wherever it is - i've seen it too :)) but would love to have this option for apps which aren't running properly (i.e. apps that aren't currently working for vogue) and are taking up space when I long-touch the power button for my list of running apps.

cheers!

B
[Touch CDMA Android Development] prairiefire:
try disconnecting/reconnecting togga again (or again). I find this helps for me.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] aven_soulgazer:
I disagree. I like to be in control of what programs are running and what programs get killed and when. If google just leaves your maps and gps running if you open once cause you need it for five minutes, It's going to kill your battery that much faster, just because you can't kill it. Sometimes I forget to kill it in winmo and it dies much faster.

Sometimes you only need a program for a minute and don't need it to keep running in the background for no reason.

Just my two cents.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] quickslvr624:
i don't know if this is new news, but an austrialian phone company is releasing a second android phone later this month.

http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-40480-145.html

do you think anyone will beable to make it work on sprint/vzw?
[Touch CDMA Android Development] grktaurus83:
I agree that if we do have a system process application, it should be used very infrequently.

However, the functionality I'm referring to is similar to what the Touch has in Windows Mobile now. Having the option to specify "leave a program running unless I long-press the X" or "close a program whenever the X is pressed" is more what I mean.

Android's "long-press Home" menu is (somewhat) similar to Windows Mobile process manager that appears on the home screen. In Windows Mobile, you can open the list and select the program to switch to it or select the X to close it. You shouldn't have to go to a separate program to do it.

One way I see this working in Android:

1) Leave a process running in the background unless you Menu > Exit a program

2) Long-pressing on a program icon gives the user an option to kill that program (in the "long-press Home" program list) and leave it running otherwise

You can basically have a setting that says "Let Android handle when apps are closed" or "Handle application exits yourself."

The specific functionality that I'm trying to maintain is being able to keep a program open as long as you want. I made a post about this quite a while ago. Android would close the terminal emulator in the 7 seconds it took me to switch over to the browser and refresh the page (while I was working on the scripts behind Togga). I'd lose all of the command history in the terminal and have to type everything all over again. There have been a few times where I'd pull something up in Windows Mobile (such as a map in advance) and leave it open in the background for a few hours because I'd periodically check it (because reception where I was going would be terrible).
[Touch CDMA Android Development] etx:
I can see why you guys would like something like a task manager, but I think that's kind of against what Android is all about. I know the Vogue seems to get bogged down after some heavy use in what seems like a lack of resources. But the right way to fix this would be to modify the way android handles these resources. A task manager is just a hack, ala-Microsoft.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] steve98:
The current build is pretty much good enough to use as my primary OS, the only thing stopping me is the battery life. I've asked this before but could other people please tell me what their battery life is like with Android running. I would have to charge my mobile 2 or 3 times a day if I was to keep this running. Is there anything we can do to improve battery life?
[Touch CDMA Android Development] katmandu421:
I'll be posting some actual statistics next week after collecting some more data points, but I have found that with Togga connected full-time you can expect about 8 hours. Not bad considering that with my Touch Diamond on winmo got about 10-12. I've been trying to get into the habit of turning Togga off, which seems to help the battery life A LOT, but it's still doesn't contribute to a smooth user experience. Wish there was someone who could figure out proper data connection management on this port *fingers crossed*
[Touch CDMA Android Development] quickslvr624:
downloaded the new system image, would not boot up, got stuck on boot script, saying somthing about system wakeup, had to reset back to winmo and my sd card wont show up, bricked.

dont think the sd card has anything to do with new sys img but dont know why it wouldnt boot up.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] dzo:
Well, with light use I have to charge my phone every other night (with the network always connected) so either you people use your phone a lot or the power management is not working for you.

Are you using power collapse and does your panel turn off properly. I think the only panel that powers down correctly is the hitachi since that is what I have. One day I'll get around to looking at the power code for other panels.

It could also be a signal strength problem, I know that if I travel to somewhere with bad signal strength or no EVDO, battery life is terrible but I think its the same with wince.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] steve98:
Wow, I would kill for being able to get 2 days out of it. I hardly ever have it connected to the net through Togga, and I really only send the occassional text, hardly any phone calling. I turn it on every once in a while to have a play around with it but thats about it. Battery lasts about 8 hours max.

Not sure what you mean by 'are you using power collapse' - can you explain? Sorry to sound like a noob, I'm sure this is discussed somewhere in this gigantic thread but searching through is a bit daunting.

With regards to panel, not sure how to check this but like you mine is a Telecom NZ 'Okta' branded touch so I assume its the same hardware configuration? I am in central Christchurch so signal is strong.

Would be interested to hear more about this power collapse, and anything you can do to address power issues would be just awesome. Thanks for all your hard work, dzo!

Steve
[Touch CDMA Android Development] dzo:
Try adding:

pm.sleep_mode=0 board-htcvogue.panel_type=1

to the cmdline in default.txt (within the quotes)

sleep_mode should default to 0 (power collapse) but the panel type needs to be set since it doesn't autodetect, type 1 is hitachi which I think all nz vogues have.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] grktaurus83:
The issue for me isn't the resource usage (as I haven't had any issues with the Vogue feeling bogged down). The issue is actually being able to keep Android from closing some programs automatically.

I think about it like this:

Imagine you're using your desktop and your OS decides to close some applications because it thought you were done using them (a browser that has been minimized for a while, a terminal you have waiting, etc.). Even more so, you're not really given the option to close an application, just to minimize it until the OS closes it for you.

Not a big fan of that operating scheme.

I understand that part of this idea is because I'm a perfectionist and like to be in control of how everything is managed. The other part is that the OS cannot always know what the user wants to do at all times (keep a program open, close it, etc.), so there should be a way for the user to get around this limitation and accomplish what they want by choice. For me, this is best exemplified by the right-click drag in Windows:

In Windows, if you drag a file to another location within the same parition, the default action is to move. If you drag a file to another drive or partition, the default action is to copy.

However, if you right-click drag the file, Windows will open a context menu at the end with 3 options: move here, copy here, create shorcuts here (with the default action in bold). Using right-click drag is incredibly useful for me simply because the OS cannot always know what I want to do with a file and because I don't always want to do the default action.

Does everyone need it? No. But it does offer a way around the default actions built into the OS and lets me accomplish what I want to do.

(I remember that right-click drag was one of the features I craved most when I first started using linux several years ago. Haha.)
[Touch CDMA Android Development] steve98:
Ah thanks Dzo I will try that -- if you don't state your panel type, which option would it default to?
[Touch CDMA Android Development] dzo:
Without that option it turns off the backlight but doesn't power down the panel at all so this could explain battery drain (though I didn't think the panel used that much power).
[Touch CDMA Android Development] corypaul:
Question?

dzo how do u add pm.sleep_mode=0 board-htcvogue.panel_type=1

to the cmdline but im using the startup.txt from your dec 2 cab file
[Touch CDMA Android Development] steve98:
Ah awesome - here's hoping that helps. Thank you for making this otherwise crappy mobile a joy to use! So sick of Windows Mobile! I may have to consider getting the Kogan Agora I think (http://www.kogan.com.au/shop/android-powered-kogan-agora-pro-mobile-phone/)
[Touch CDMA Android Development] f00bar:
except having a program in memory doesn't use any more battery than that memory being empty...
[Touch CDMA Android Development] corypaul:
modifing .img flies

i have a ubuntu now but i cant seem to get it to mount. i tring wm5torage and check removable class and uncheck the two box in the "menu, troubleshooting icons". any help would be great.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] excogitation:
Check "Disable concurrency" and "Disable RNDIS on Activate" in Menu -> Troubleshooting and it works.

I don't know what you're trying to achieve - but you could also use synce to explore/sync the device or (un-)install programs.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] steve98:
or you could just put your MicroSD card in a USB reader to add android apps of course
[Touch CDMA Android Development] katmandu421:
Landscape keyboard seems the same?
[Touch CDMA Android Development] grktaurus83:
That's not what he's talking about.

Some programs don't just sit idle in memory, but continue to have activity in the background. His example was having google maps in the background with gps running. That would definitely kill your battery much faster. IM clients are another example as they periodically communicate with servers even when you are not actively using them.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] katmandu421:
Not sure about the power collapse, or what panel I have. Let me know if (and how) to get more information if you need it. FYI: I do have "Immediately destroy activities" checked in development settings. This sounded like a "kill applications" type of settings, so I tried it.

My signal strength is pretty good, I've never seen it under 3 bars much.

I'm not too heavy of a user, mail set to fetch every 15 minutes, all other apps update upon opening (Weather, Stocker, Scoreboard). Light surfing (checking this forum:))and a few texts, an occasional call, average talk about 20 minutes maybe.

I'd be happy to test out new images, kernels, etc. Not much can't be undone.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] d1rtyd33z:
us vogue panel type

Without using

board-htcvogue.panel_type=3

I couldn't get Android to boot. I switched to f00bars system.img and it took forever to boot. The LCD looks like it has an 'interlaced' effect. It's not as solid as it seemed before, almost like going from 720p to 1080i.

It seems like board-htcvogue.panel_type=0 looked better on my Touch for some reason, although I guess it wasn't shutting down the LCD, resulting in less than a full day of battery life.

F00bar: the togga.apk is missing?