yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Apps and Games] pardub:
You can add also a warning when the user has enabled the switch for the advanced mode specifying those extra options might be overwhelming for non advanced users.
[Android Apps and Games] Will_T:
I agree with both of these.
[Android Apps and Games] topcaser:
What do you think of this approach, android did:

"Are you searching for..." In a separate box after the simpler settings.

This approach assumes that an analysis is done first which settings are the simple settings (has to be done anyway). Afterwards the remaining settings have to be clustered and then offered to the user with such a question.
[Android Apps and Games] dalepl:
I understand your intent with the questions but be assured many will complain about that route. The easiest approach would be for him to do as he suggested. Provide and SIMPLE and ADVANCED mode. Preselect the options in advance most used and default to SIMPLE mode with the option for the user to default to ADVANCED. Many apps use this schema.
[Android Apps and Games] canaccc:
I wouldn't make accessing the options a Pro feature, that seems unnecessary and would limit positive reception (how can the options to a FOSS program be paid feature?). I would go a step further than Pro/No and use the Kodi approach to what's in each menu: Basic, Advanced, and Expert.

Basic

:

Accounts. Not 28 options about how many times per millisecond to tickle the server's special spot, talk dirty to it in JAVA, and tell it that it's special. Just the email address, the password, the signature, and what you want the account to be named in the list.

Theme. BASIC choices - light/dark/AMOLED, accent colour(s), density, unified inbox yes/no, and conversation threading yes/no.

Notifications. Again, just the basics... what sound for what account. Vibrate yes/no.

Advanced

:

Above plus visual interface tweaks. Fonts, message formatting, and tangible elements of what people are looking at.

A FEW of the fundamental privacy options (authentication, privacy lists?).

Expert

(with a warning when activating that the user consents to their brain being melted):

The kitchen sink of options currently in place that overwhelm just about everyone

The things that affect underlying ways that the program works. What people don't see. Things that don't affect how the program looks, but instead alter how the program works.

I'd also say if the options menus are being tweaked, that it'd be a good time to maybe consider the general interface complexity as that's the other major complaint that people have. Instead of getting upset when people say that it's not very attractive and retorting that people asked for it to be that way, just adopt a new philosophy of having a clean, smooth interface. I've said it before, install Outlook for Android and make FairEmail look exactly like that and all of the interface complaints will disappear. Maybe the interface itself also gets a Basic, Advanced, and Expert presentation if you want to retain all the extra buttons and abilities in some form for people that won't recoil from the complexity?
[Android Apps and Games] Will_T:
I like all your suggestions but just do not agree with this one statement and feel the need to come to the defense of the developer. I consider myself pretty untechnical and not an advanced user at all. But I certainly am not overwhelmed with all the settings and options. Yes it takes time to go through everything to see what you might want to use. And yes once in a while it is not immediately clear what something does. But this in by no means overwhelming and with the support offered, and this thread, it is quick and easy to get questions answered if you think you don't understand something.

Having both simple and advanced interface seems to have pretty much unanimous support here with a wide variety of users.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Please take a look at the message header: what could be removed?

Please take a look at the message body: what could be removed?

I think exactly nothing, but maybe I am wrong?

I can make the app look exactly the same as Gmail or Outlook, but is that really a good idea?

For example: attachments can be at the end by default. Personally I hate this and I am sure I am not alone in this.
[Android Apps and Games] nadir husain:
Please do not make FE look like GMail or Outlook. That would be a total let down
[Android Apps and Games] Will_T:
No!!
[Android Apps and Games] m0d:
As long as it doesnt affect users current settings.

Also, maybe if you are going to experiment, first go with a different package name.

Many apps do this for testing beta/alpha/debug

eu.faircode.email.simple

eu.faircode.email.test

...

How are you going to handle transition.

If simple is default, current users must switch to advanced.

But, make sure current settings are not messed with.

Probably a button to reset to default for users who prefer simple mode.
[Android Apps and Games] m0d:
Then again google made a total different app inbox, before shuttering it.

If users want an app that looks like gmail they probably just use gmail 🤷🙅🙆💁
[Android Apps and Games] de_Wolf:
According to my research, FE is released since December 2019. Now, after more than 2 years, someone is complaining that the app has too many features. Does the app need to be adjusted because of one dissatisfied user? I think no.

In my view of the German Play Store, I see the following:

Number of installs : 500.000+

Ratings given : 21.591

Rating : 4.8

I can't tell if the number of installs refers to Germany or to the whole world. If it would refer to Germany, then it means that FE is installed on 478,409 more smartphones and users are probably satisfied with the app, because otherwise they would have expressed their negative opinion in the Play Store.

I don't know Marcel if you can get statistics from the Play Store that show the global number of installs and ratings given. These numbers should be compared and considered and not only look at the rating.

For me, the rating of the App Store does not reflect the real opinion of the users about FE, because the large, silent majority has not expressed itself at all.

I also belong to the silent majority. I have donated to many apps and Windows programs, but have yet to rate an app in the Play Store. This is due to my dislike of the data octopus G***le.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
And yet another rather frustrating 1* review for too many options: link :-(
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Regarding the options: thanks for the suggestions. I will do some minor changes only though and there will be a stop on new options, unless there is a very good reason for a new option.
[Android Apps and Games] de_Wolf:
The person has upgraded to 3 stars...
[Android Apps and Games] mkasimd:
The idea of hiding most options behind a button "enable advanced mode" (or similar) sounds good. Only the basic day-to-day use settings should be visible in a simple mode.

There are two methods that can work:

1. A skippable Quick-Setup wizard upon first installation (showing a quick tutorial through swipable images, then asking whether one wants to enable the simple or the advanced mode). I think I did show a proof of concept some time last year here

2. Nothing fancy like in 1. The simple mode is default for everyone. Anyone who wants to use the advanced mode has to explicitly enable it with a warning popping up

If you want to maximize user-friendliness, I'd advise for option 1 (of course, one should still be able to enable/disable the advanced mode in the settings like in 2 afterwards and the wizard should be skippable)

By the way, I have read something interesting today. "Don't build because the customer 'could', but because the customer 'will' use it".

The gist of it is that when considering new features, don't just think if somebody could find it useful. Focus on whether it is useful for yourself or whether a user has explicitly said that it will be useful for him (especially with a scenario/reason on why it is so). If the person requesting it cannot show an adequate user-history (scenario/reason why he needs the feature), then he most likely doesn't really need it and you can discard the request.

That's not related to the current topic of hiding most features behind an advanced mode. I'm saying it because you generally receive multiple feature requests as well as your own ideas and this might maybe help you in determining whether you should bother adding the feature or not, @M66B
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
I have reorganized the options a bit and moved a number of options to the advanced options cards, which will have a warning like heading (red, etc). Eventually people will push buttons anyway and show the advanced options in the process and still complain anyway is my reasoning.
[Android Apps and Games] mrrocketdog:
downvoted.
[Android Apps and Games] mkasimd:
Yep. There will still be people complaining about it. But the numbers should decrease significantly. A lot of vendors differentiate between a default simple mode and an advanced mode for a reason. You on the other hand trust to the sanity of your users.

A basic rule for you: the customer is stupid, the customer is wrong, the customer lies (not necessarily intended lies) and the customer is at fault for any errors.

That's how many user-centric applications work at core. They show less and act themselves in the background under the assumption what the customer could have wanted to achieve. E.g. imagine a browser that follows the W3 standards strictly and popped up errors once a website returned illegal HTML. Most users would hate it. They would say the browser sucks. So, most browsers are very tolerant when interpreting HTML. The user never sees any parsing error or stuff like CSP causing some resource being blocked. Only the techies look at it in the console.

Now back to FairEmail. If you want to appeal to the general public, then don't even bother to inform the user upon Server-Side errors. Just don't show the errors and make the app handle it in the background by retrying again and again. If the error still occurs after more than 1h of retrying, only then show the error message. For all those who want to see errors right away (guys like me), add an option: advanced mode -> miscellaneous -> debugging options -> error transparency

Do it and see for yourself, you will likely receive less complaining.

I know, you want to build a fully transparent app. But let's be honest, most users don't deserve that.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
I know there is some truth in this, but it is also a bit depressing. Humankind ... a stupid war at the border of the EU is an illustration of this too.

Errors are suppressed for over an hour already, unless it is an authentication error.
[Android Apps and Games] m0d:
It is a shame that after all this time you still get upset about google bots downvoting the competition.

If you go to any forum fairemail is one of the suggestions for best email app in android. Add to that the all the current installed statistics.

The users giving a bad review, some are doing that because they know how much it bothers you and hope to make app according to their preferences. If of course they are not paid bot farms.

You can make all the changes, but still bad reviews will continue.

About that war, how about all the other invasions and resoursce grabbing, and destruction. Their are more than five other places unfortunately.

Grim.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Maybe the quality of the app and my sensitivity for bad reviews are related to each other. Maybe I should be more ignorant and just stop trying to help people. Yesterday something was changed, which will results in a large group of users not getting support whatsoever anymore.

FairEmail - Donate

Support FairEmail with a donation

email.faircode.eu

Edit: to be clear: the app will keep being available as before and will keep being maintained and supported.
[Android Apps and Games] Will_T:
I don't understand what this means? I am a pro user installed from the Play Store. Last version there is from April 30, 1.1887a. Is the app being pulled from the Play Store? I am just confused as to how a user like me should best continue to use the app.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
The app will keep being available as before, no worries.

Edit: check at the bottom:

FairEmail - Donate

Support FairEmail with a donation

email.faircode.eu
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Version 1.1893 is available on GitHub now and in the Play store test program after Google's approval.

Changelog/download:

https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail/releases

Edit: not in the changelog: the sync widget will be dimmed if not all accounts are connected.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
If you have a foldable device, I would like you to install this test version and to send me the debug info (long press 'Support' in the navigation menu):

https://bitbucket.org/M66B/fairemail-test/downloads/FairEmail-v1.1893a-github-foldable-release.apk

This version is the same as the just released version with some extra debug logging. So, there is no point in installing this version if you don't have a foldable.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Please be aware that Microsoft will turn off password authentication for email from October 1, 2022:

Basic Authentication Deprecation in Exchange Online – May 2022 Update

In about 150 days from today, we’re going to start to turn off Basic Auth for specific protocols in Exchange Online for those customers still using it.

techcommunity.microsoft.com

Please see this FAQ for what to do:

https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail/blob/master/FAQ.md#user-content-faq14
[Android Apps and Games] mkasimd:
What is your assessment on "basic authentication" by the way? Would you call it any lesser secure if a mail provider solely accepts SSL/TLS encrypted login and the users' email app does not store the credentials in their own servers?

Sure, OAuth has many benefits. But I don't see any benefits when somebody is using those specific credentials for emails only.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
The advantage of OAuth is that an authentication is temporary and that it can be revoked. Also, your account password is never exposed in case of OAuth.

These are advantages, but they comes with the disadvantage that the access token need to be refreshed about every hour. For a desktop client this isn't an issue, but it will result in extra battery usage for a mobile email client like FairEmail. That's also why I use app passwords whenever possible ...
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Version 1.1894 is available on GitHub now and in the Play store test program after Google's approval.

Changelog/download:

https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail/releases

This version was released to fix the widgets for older Android versions.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Discussion: should forwarding a message start a new conversation or is it part of the existing conversation?

My point of view is that forwarding a message starts a new conversation. The original participants of the conversation don't see the messages of the new conversation after all.

There could even be as privacy concern when not starting a new conversation:

872469 - X-Forwarded-Message-ID/References headers expose information about S/MIME message

UNCONFIRMED (nobody) in Thunderbird - Security. Last updated 2022-10-10.

bugzilla.mozilla.org
[Android Apps and Games] pardub:
I would say it should be part of a new conversation. New participants shouldn't automatically have access to the full thread of the previous messages for privacy reasons.
[Android Apps and Games] Frogging101:
They wouldn't have access to the full thread of previous messages (well, except that they'd see all of them since they're quoted). This is about whether to add the In-Reply-To header to the forward, which references it back to the conversation that was forwarded. So they would show up under the same "conversation" or tree in your local client.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Regarding whether a new conversation should be started on forwarding can be selected with an option in the next release:

Added option for forward threading · M66B/FairEmail@0fac4cf

Fully featured, open source, privacy friendly email app for Android - Added option for forward threading · M66B/FairEmail@0fac4cf

github.com
[Android Apps and Games] de_Wolf:
In my thinking, forwarding leads to a new conversation because it is directed to a deviant recipient.
[Android Apps and Games] mkasimd:
If it's supposed to be the same conversation, one should add the person to the CC or TO field for the existing conversation instead of forwarding.

So, I agree with you. It should be considered a new conversation.
[Android Apps and Games] muaddip:
I love these new quick actions, the delete helps me a ton everyday.

Would adding Mark as Read/Unread be an option you'd think about adding? Or maybe having the ability to select which options you want to see.

I know there is a lot of talk about people thinking there are too many setting and all the BS, but having options/settings to customize the app to your liking is what truly makes FairEmail one of the best app out there.
[Android Apps and Games] mrrocketdog:
+1 :)
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Marking messages read this way is a good idea, so:

Added quick seen · M66B/FairEmail@0c40bac

Fully featured, open source, privacy friendly email app for Android - Added quick seen · M66B/FairEmail@0c40bac

github.com
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Version 1.1895 is available on GitHub now and in the Play store test program after Google's approval.

Changelog/download:

https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail/releases
[Android Apps and Games] heinhuiz:
I disagree, for me forwarding a message means making the new participant part of the original conversation.

For starting a new conversation one should use Edit as new, which should also address the privacy concerns you mention.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
With the latest version you can select what should happen yourself now ;-)
[Android Apps and Games] heinhuiz:
That's fine, but be careful not over-complicating things.
[Android Apps and Games] asripath:
On Play Store latest beta...

Outlook and Yahoo emails in which iam included as cc...

Which used to appear in respective providers Inbox folder...

Now goto Bulk email folder.

Anyway I can fix this behaviour from occurring?
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
First step is to move the messages back to the inbox. If there is a block sender rule in the app, it will be cancelled this way. It also trains the email server to consider similar messages not as spam anymore.
[Android Apps and Games] Will_T:
I left the beta program last week and am just staying with the Play Store version. The app is working fine for me, but I am not seeing the latest versions the Play Store. The latest installed version I have is: 1.1887a, and that matches what I see in the Store. Is Google just being slower than normal or is it something else?
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
There will be a new pubic Play store release about once a month only because 1 star ratings like "Too many updates" are rather frustrating.

You can join the Play store test program to get more updates:

Sign in - Google Accounts
[Android Apps and Games] Will_T:
I see. So I should join back into the Beta program?
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
If you want more frequent updates, that's one of the options. You can also install the GitHub version as an update.
[Android Apps and Games] mrrocketdog:
warning : OT ;

deleted for inappropiateness
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
The app is too complicated: 1 star.

Probably after looking only 10 seconds at it.

Link
[Android Apps and Games] mrrocketdog:
downvoted
[Android Apps and Games] Friedel25:
downvoted
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Version 1.1896 is available on GitHub now and in the Play store test program after Google's approval.

Changelog/download:

https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail/releases
[Android Apps and Games] anuraag.neo:
@M66B I'm getting smtp; 550 user unknown (failed) message when using hard bounce. Is this expected behaviour?
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
It means that the address in the Return-Path header doesn't exist (anymore). The spammer is probably gone or was blocked.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
The next version will have configurable quick actions. You can select:

Set low importance (new)

Mark as read

Add star (new)

Move to inbox

Archive

Report spam

Trash

Is there any other action which you use commonly?
[Android Apps and Games] mkasimd:
@topcaser, a quick action for this makes no sense as the quick actions are intended for received messages only AFAIK.

Also, there's already a neat quick action for delayed sending: long-press the send button 😉
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Version 1.1897 is available on GitHub now and in the Play store test program after Google's approval.

Changelog/download:

https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail/releases

Since use cases vary, you can select up to 5 quick actions now. Snooze @topcaser, hide and high importance were added as actions.
[Android Apps and Games] Friedel25:
move, copy
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
I will add move to the next version.

I don't see copy being used much?
[Android Apps and Games] pardub:
Downvoted
[Android Apps and Games] Friedel25:
Thanks - it's OK! 😀

I use Copy less often than Move
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
1.1897a has been replaced by 1.1897b ...

https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail/releases
[Android Apps and Games] nadir husain:
Man Marcel you are quick!
[Android Apps and Games] mrrocketdog:
this is with guitar pedals pros & cons ,

each pedal for a "con" = "too many options". "not enuff features". reviews for the same type of pedal. its everywhere. js
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
I understand you want pedals in FairEmail. For what do you want to use them? ;-)
[Android Apps and Games] mrrocketdog:
well we could adjust volume , timing , rate. the list is virtually limitless :love:
[Android Apps and Games] nubla:
Careful what you say! M66B might actually implement things. Even if it's not April Fools. While reiterating "no new features." 😅

Perhaps in the name of viral-style marketing? But is it worth all the 1 star reviews if FairEmail fails to make users sound like Slash? 😂
[Android Apps and Games] mrrocketdog:
:ROFLMAO:
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Yet another person who just looks 10 seconds and rates 1 star :-(

Link.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
For your voting pleasure:

Link

Xiaomi Android versions just have many bugs.
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Since my girlfriend is currently pretty sick, my first priority is taking care of her. So, don't expect much from me for the time being.

I will probably release a new version in the Play store by the end of the week though.
[Android Apps and Games] Friedel25:
Downvoted
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
According to Google FairEmail is spyware because it uploads the contact list. My guess is this is because of the usage of favicons, which will use the domain name of email addresses to fetch info. This feature has been removed from the Play store version now.

Google has been violating EU regulation 2019/1150 on multiple occasions now by not being transparent about what exactly the problem is, but what can I do? Complain via the EU, wait five years for action while the app is being removed from the Play store?
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
I have submitted a new version to Google, with the favicons and domain block lists removed.

This might come as a shock, but if I can't resolve this with Google, it will be the end of the project. I have tried to communicate several times with Google, but they don't provide any details about what the app presumably is doing wrong.

The app most certainly doesn't upload any contact info, unless maybe your email address to login to the email server.

If the app can't be in the Play store anymore, there is no point in continuing supporting this app because about 99% of the users download the app from the Play store.
[Android Apps and Games] nadir husain:
Don't say that Marcel,!😭
[Android Apps and Games] M66B:
Unfortunately, this is pretty serious, Nadir.
[Android Apps and Games] nadir husain:
I understand!