yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] hambola:
Don't want to throw this thread off track, but I'm skeptical about some of the fixes we expect to get out of the driver fix. Some obvious things will be fixed such as video playback and game performance, but some overall usability issues will still be there. Back when I was on the 8525, which supposedly had drivers, rotating the screen from portrait to landscape and back was still slow just like it is on my Polaris. Am I to assume that drivers will make the rotation fast?

Sorry for the tangent, now back to the topic at hand. I as well as many others are watching this thread very closely.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] fishpony:
From what i understand, the Qualcomm/ATI processor is much more powerful than the 8525's samsung cpu, there are spreadsheets stating that the working ATI gpu is comparable to a PSP and PS2. I think there will be noticable increases in usability once the ATI side is available to use. I can imagine how quick the screen should be able to simply rotate on a PSP at 240x320 resolution.

Edit.. Here's some reading material http://www.smape.com/en/news//28515.html
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] BusterTyTN:
Considering the many reports about RLOD, totally bricked devices and so on, it is clear to me that the Kaiser is not exactly the most robust piece of hardware. Is it possible that HTC had to leave out all graphics acceleration because it would have fried this f...ing Qualcomm chipset otherwise??? Just thinking...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Macgyvec3:
If that were the case then they would have avoided the issue very differently.

Attempting to cook drivers into my rom.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] fisha21:
Very interesting reading! Looks like HTC kept to one of their promises though - they did say they would release future devices with hardware acceleration in mind :mad:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] hambola:
Agreed, it is interesting. Although I have to note that it does kind of piss me off knowing newer devices will have better performance, knowing that i just purchased an expensive A $ $ device that i am expecting to keep for a few years.

I propose we open a new thread where we can discuss this article and any other beef anyone has. That way we can keep this thread on topic.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] BusterTyTN:
I'm listening?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] coolVariable:
By saying that the ATI 3D accel is not integrated into the chip or disable by fusion. Their wording is very careful and consistent across the board that they are not "using" any 3D accel. functions.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] ericmcintire:
testing...

so I'm messing around with this a little.... What do people usually get for a final score when they run the SP benchmark test? if these drivers work then what score would we expect? I'm just wondering what I'm shooting for... Thanks

FYI I'm using virtual speghetti to get my score.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] austinsnyc:
I have also been able to cook in the DDI.dll posted here and the other drivers from the new AT-T rom cooked into the 202 base and have not had any issues with it so far seems to run just fine. I'm not sure if I would say its faster as I haven't done benchmarks I just wanted to see if it would work and it does. So maybe thats a set in the right direction. The one thing i do notice though is just like some of the newer roms when you type on the onscreen keyboard fast the button presses do not show all the time! this seems to be a commen issue with the new roms like I said
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Draiko:
I wonder exactly how different the MSM7200 and MSM7500 are. They're supposed to be the same with the exception of the radio, 7200 = GSM and 7500 = CDMA

I'm also wondering if this is any indication that HTC will release drivers during the summer.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] 4Site:
Sorry to side track, but this needs to be said.

HTC will not release drivers, why should they? They didn't licence it for the release of this product, why would they pay good money to licence it now that they've sold sh!tloads of the said device in it's current form? i think even the march update was a diversion tactic just to slow the momentum that was building and defuse the situation in media somewhat without ever admitting any liability. All the info released about the expected update was through unofficial channels, with hindsight, we should of got them to say on record whether there would be an update or not, using the media as a go between.

In a month or so they'll release a new device and this whole issue will be dead and burried. Must give props to their pr team they certainly earned their salary on this one. I suggest a HTC boycott but most people won't go along with it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] fishpony:
This thread is not about HTC releasing drivers for our devices. It is about getting the drivers from the new device they released a few months after ours. Did you read any of this thread? Maybe just the Title?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Macgyvec3:
Dido. But good point 4site. I have been able to cook the ddi.dll and a few others into my rom and it too works just fine but I don't see a real difference from Dutty's Hybrid as far as usability. I don't think that the ddi.dll is the only part we need. We need to try adding a single driver at a time and see if our Kaisers keep working. Then we may be able to find the ones that are causing problems. I'm working on it on my own but adding a driver then flashing then testing takes time. I encourage others to try.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] frag999:
If you read post #213 in this thread by Fisha21, you will see that a "retail" Sedna that he/she bought posted pretty standard (unaccelerated) benchmarks . So, any roms that are currently floating around may not contain any magic in them. The only phone to post super graphics scores is the Sedna that was sent to www.todosmartphone.com for their review of the unit. The theory has been raised that perhaps HTC sent todosmartphone a pre-production Sedna phone with video drivers on purpose or by mistake. At this point, the best bet is to get the roms from that particular Sedna. Those folks have said they would be willing to share the rom. To date, nobody has been able to get it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] fishpony:
I agree, I think the todosmartphone rom would be our best bet since they actually tested the unit and it appeared to be working. Awesome that they are willing to dump the rom for us. Hopefully HTC hasn't contacted them wanting the phone back because they accidentally slipped the drivers in or something. Something is different about that phone and Someone just needs to find out what. Since i know little about the rom i will leave it to the experts. Just wish i could contribute. Anxiously awaiting... keep it up guys.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] neilson:
Guys, if we get the todosmartphone ROM for the Sedna and prove that it's different from the production Sedna ROM, then we'll have uncovered the smoking gun to the greatest conspiracy in xda-developers, nay! Mobile Phone history!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] austinsnyc:
Www like no one knows that HTC ships roms to of that are souped up compaired to what we get? This has gone on for a very long time.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] neilson:
But this'll be definitive proof that'll allow us to expose the fraud for what's it's truly worth.

btw, what ever became of those pre-production souped up HTC phones that reviewers got to have?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Riemen:
I know thaht someone already was in contact with todosmartphone, but have they already been instructed how to dumb their roms? If not, someone of the experts here should do that FAST, bevore they have to give their test device back...

If their test were really correct, this could be our only chance to get hands on accelerated drivers!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] DaveShaw:
Chainfire was supposed to meet them on Msm on friday, but they never showed. Im sure he'll keep at it (he is the guy behind HtcClassAction).

This was all covered a few posts back, please dont saturate this thread. The real devs working on this will just have to filter though all this just to get to the details they're after.

BTW, I know the post is just as redundant, but please try and keep this thread clean. :D

Dave
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] SuperJMN:
Has anyone tried to do the opposite? I mean, to replace the graphics driver

"a la inversa":

- From Polaris to P6500, to see if it loses its graphical acceleration.

Or to remove the supposed drivers and install some default drivers to see whether the performance decreases or not.

This way, we can know what part of software does the job.

Is it crazy or has no sense? :)

I just want to give some ideas!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] BusterTyTN:
I wouldn't rely too much on what HTC says. Same outcome, whether they're omitting drivers, whether it's "fused" into the chips, or whether there's an "enable" pin pulled to ground. I doubt they are using completely custom specific dies, that is, without having the ATI stuff on the mask at all. Only fact visible from the outside is that 3D is definitely not in use. My suspect is that HTC was perfectly aware of the sensible hardware. A general disable is always an idiot proof workaround if particular circuits misbehave.

Only thing important to us is that you can't reactivate 3D when it's disabled in hardware (unless you can detach a disable pin or so), while you can if it's due to missing drivers. This has to be figured out first.

@SuperJMN: Sure this makes sense.

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Memnoch30:
I'm guessing this was a Time Zone issue as Spain is on GMT +2. I had an office in Spain at my previous job and coordinating server maintenance with someone on site was a nightmare.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] neilson:
But Chainfire is Dutch, and is still living in The Netherlands as far as I know.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] mimoracer:
Chainfire is very smart man so stop guessing and stop writing non progressive sentense and leave this thread to the developer and keep watching only
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] SuperJMN:
Spain is on GMT +1 (like Paris), except for its Canary Islands, that are on GMT.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] SCSweeps:
All hail the mighty Chainfire! ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Kavalier:
What about hdubli? we could ask him to see if he has the other parts of the dump, or ask him for the entire spl dump

i believe his 6500 was a pre-production
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] punkcell:
I ran into this surfing around, it a HTC APPLICATION UNLOCK.

don't know if this will help the cause.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=382793

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=382794

If not sorry to waste time.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] th_undead:
Todosmartphone.com

Hello guys, i have sent todosmartphone.com a message in english and spanish. i will write if i get an answer. here is my message:

Dear todo Smart Phone.com,

i am a member of the Kasier community in Xda-developers.com and am kindly asking you for your help.

You have recently did a review of the new HTC p6500 (Sedna) and the sbp benchmark scores where extremely good. This caught our attention and we think that your review phone has the accelerated 3d drivers that all of us need to solve the Qualcomm driver issue on our phones (kaiser, niki, polaris, etc..)

I am asking you 2 things:

1. did you post on our forums under the name of todosmartphone:

"Originally Posted by todosmartphone

Hello:

We are the spanish reviewers of HTC Sedna (www.todosmartphone.com). We have still the device on our office so if you need the ROM dump we can do it.

Sinceresly, We does not know how to do that on WM6. If anybody can help us to do this, we can make as soon as posible.

Best,

Puri,

TodoSmartphone.com"

?

2. Could you kindly provide us with a ROM dump from that device so we could have a solid base from which we could start to create our missing drivers ?

I hope you will give this message serious appreciation and thank you very much for your help.

Hope to hear from you soon,

Andrian Mihai, Xda-Developers.com

th_undead@yahoo.com

--------------------

he intentado traducirlo en español usando yahoo. apesadumbrado si es una mala traducción. Estimado todo Phone.com elegante, soy un miembro de la comunidad de Kasier en Xda-developers.com y amablemente que le pide su ayuda. Usted tiene hizo recientemente una revisión del nuevo HTC p6500 (Sedna) y las cuentas de la prueba patrón del sbp donde extremadamente bueno. Esto cogió nuestra atención y pensamos que su teléfono de la revisión tiene los conductores acelerados 3d que todos nosotros necesidad de solucionar la edición del conductor de Qualcomm en nuestros teléfonos (kaiser, niki, estrella polar, etc…) Le estoy pidiendo 2 cosas: 1. usted fijó en nuestros foros bajo el nombre de todosmartphone: " Fijado originalmente por todosmartphone Hola: Somos los revisores españoles de HTC Sedna (www.todosmartphone.com). Todavía tenemos el dispositivo en nuestra oficina tan si usted necesita la descarga de la ROM que podemos hacerla. Sinceresly, no sabemos hacer eso en WM6. Si cualquiera puede ayudarnos a hacer esto, podemos hacer tan pronto como sean posible. El mejor, Puri, " de TodoSmartphone.com; ¿? 2. ¿Podría usted proveer amablemente de nosotros una descarga de la ROM de ese dispositivo así que nosotros podría tener una base sólida de la cual podríamos comenzar a crear nuestros conductores que falta? Espero que usted dé a este mensaje el aprecio serio y que le agradezca mucho por su ayuda. Esperanza de oír de usted pronto, Andrian Mihai, Xda-Developers.com th_undead@yahoo.com

PS: for those who know spanish, sorry for the translation, i know it;s bad but i hope it makes some sense there...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] charli:
I'm spanish, and I'm sending them a mail too. In case they need help with the translation or anything. I'll write if I get an answer too.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] sacre:
I love this.

How a community of smart people get together and work together to try and fix their phones, and other phones. Fixing what companies fail to fix.

I can't really help much at all, sadly, for I have not so much knowledge when it comes to programming and roms, etc.

The most I can say is keep it up guys. So far, I am very impressed with the co-operation and work that is being done.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jug6ernaut:
no my friend not what the company failed to fix, what the company neglected to address. ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] JC_Carrillo:
I think that we need be patient and don't give more importance about this, wait that Chainfire and big brain people do their tricks.

Let me explain, if HTC people know about that P6500 whit correct drivers, they surely will send a mail saying that those drivers infringe some patent (see Creative and vista drivers), like the godfather :eek::eek:

be patient, and won't fill the thread with non progressive posts, please.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] ap50:
Ah, but Creative have backed down about the Vista drivers, so, there's a precedence to be aimed for.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] kb9nvh:
Was this on digg? LINK please?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Chainfire:
Now now, in all probability it's just something silly like they had an appointment they forgot about, or something else. They'll probably contact me monday or post something here. No need to bombard them with e-mails, that doesn't help.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] mysteryvortex:
The Register:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/04/creative_restores_home_brew_vista_driver_links/

I wouldn't count on that making any difference in any future cases though, including this one.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] drownage:
are we getting off topic?... can we concentrate on extracting drivers from ROM just for now...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] austinsnyc:
Look people I honestly don't think just replacing drivers is going to work here as myself and a few other have already done that and not seen any increase in speed. there are some major issues with the new WM6.1 roms and I don't think we will see any changes until WM7. I honestly think that are kaisers will not be what the where hyped up to be and HTC will just release a new device with some really good specs and hope we all forget about the kaiser. The kaiser is a great phone for sure but at the same time I hate the same thing you all do! the speed of the device its slow as hell and when i bought it i really thought it was going to be a rocket compared to my hermes which it was not. We all had the same 30 day return period and we all could have brought it back for something else but we didn't so now we have to live with what we have till something better comes out. Which will be soon! the 3G Iphone is just around the corner, I currently have the regular Iphone and the play back and just about everything else blows the kaiser away. I am not trying to start a fight about phones here I am just saying without someone making drivers from scratch that truly use every inch of the 400mhz processor we are stuck with what we have so we can either deal for the time being or go buy something else.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] drownage:
Correct... but we arent trying to MAKE drivers... cuz we all know its impossible for such a small community of unpaid developers at xda... what we're trying is to get the drivers from other chipsets that have them... just so that we dont regret out buy... I mean cuz we are all stuck with this...

BTW anyone... im a web/application developer... But im just now starting to learn about phone development... So if anyone want to give me a heads up on how I can mess with the raw format please... ?

Thanks.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] olemmer:
Please stick to the subject. We aren't interested in such pessimistic personal commentaries.

If you aren't interested in this thread, then just don't read it.

Otherwhise, just follow it and do not put useless comments.

We want only see worthful information here that can bring us further to our initial goal: --> take the drivers out from the P6500 ROM (if they are in it :-) )

P.S: You can't compare an iphone which does not even have copy/paste with an htc kaiser ;-)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] austinsnyc:
look young gunz I am one of the ones trying to make this work on your kaisers!! I have been this game a lot longer than you and just stating facts not my personal thoughts... what I said was completely on topic the fact is the P6500 ddi.dll and other drivers do not work with our kaisers FACE THE FACTS!!

"Otherwhise, just follow it and do not put useless comments.

We want only see worthful information here that can bring us further to our initial goal: --> take the drivers out from the P6500 ROM (if they are in it :-) )"

we have taken the drivers out (no name calling) and they will run for about 10 minutes before a total lock up... THE MAIN PROBLEM YOU ALL HAVE IS WHAT? Video play back? speed? thats what I compared to the iphone no the business aspect of things but I guess you couldn't read that deep into things?

NOW there are a few more things that need to be tried before we should give up on this and I am thinking running G'reloc on the rom to see if i can port the whole thing to the kaiser with out loosing to much of the original rom. Has this been done yet?

the raw format can be converted into a .nbh and then dumped to get the files and dll's that are in the rom but its probably easier to take one of the rom links above and just use imgfs tools on it and dump it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] neilson:
Time Out guys.

We need a cooling off period.

No posting from either of you for minimum of 1 hour. Of course that's voluntary but I still think a cooling off period would be good.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] drownage:
Thanks... did it 2 seconds before u posted lol... i just tried to pass that file to all files in tools and imgfs worked ;)...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] SiGGy:
(dup of post below)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] SiGGy:
The drivers are meant to make use of the GPU in the unit. Not the 400mhtz CPU you keep referring too. Making use of the GPU will show a large increase of speed in the device for GFX rendering. This will take a large load off of the 400mhtz CPU.

Your making the assumption the files you pulled actually are updated drivers in the 1st place. I haven't seen reproducible benchmarks proving they are indeed the video drivers everyone is looking for. Did you personally disassemble and analyze the code to see what differential changes were between the files you replaced?

No clue why you keep referring to optimized code for the main 400mhtz CPU. This entire thread is about the GPU and drivers to utilize it.

And yes perhaps the dll's pulled will not work in base form. That doesn't mean someone might not disassemble the libs and make use of the some of the code. Assuming they even contain anything useful; I'm still waiting to see a reproducible benchmark showing a gain...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] lennie:
you said it so I have to say this: the iphone has a processor that is over 600mhz, that kind of horse power would make anything run like a well oiled bugatti on a wm device. the iphone has a beautiful os and killer hardware but its too closed for me plus the lack of 3G is just really disappointing. windows mobile runs fine on 200mhz processors and people fail to give it credit, "oh the os is so slow", get real, look what its running on and still performs well (I remember my mda). we should start learning to give credit where credit is due.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Imsaffor:
@Dutty

How are the tests coming along, your previous attempts seem to be very promising. Any progress?

@ Everyone else, we've gotten the device to run as it should for a few minutes, thats proof that there IS a way to make it work as it should. Regardless of anyones negative attitude towards the efforts we have. IT CAN HAPPEN. We've been able to show a proof of concept for that. Perhaps we should quit bickering amongst each other about how much we need the drivers or don't need the drivers, or what exactly it will fix and focus on making out devices perform as best as we can make them!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Doug2873:
look...being one of the more "senior" people in this forum I am going to have to agree with austinsync...the hundreds of hours that Chainfire put into this (along with the lawsuit) has done more than enough to convince me that this is just an issue that is not going to be fixed on the kaiser...my best hope is that when the Xperia comes out the video issue will be fixed and we can start developing for it...the Kaiser's life is 1/2 way over anyways, since the TyTn III will most likely be coming out next November, not to mention the Android phones that will be coming out in Q4 of 2008.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] petard:
so youve gotten the driver to work for a couple minutes? its fast for a bit and then it crashes or what?