yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] Tisckkytt:
I see a v3p on afh. What changes that brings?

I'm on v2p with dp5. Can't complete pixel, Google setup. Play store & service framework updated manually. Couldn't update play service. Still can't open play or add Google account.
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] dzontra83:
If anyone flashed this with anti 4 share please, I would like to try Android P. Thx
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] ger_kar:
I am from Redmi Note 5 Global - MIUI 10 - Global - 8.7.17 Beta

and it worked without problems.

1. Start Recovery (TWRP)

2. Delete - Advanced Delete - Wipe / ART Cache - Cache - Data - System - Vendor

3. Install (ZIP) - TREBLE-whyred-V3r-P-260718.zip

4. Install (IMG) - P_DP5_A_only.img (System Image)

5. Restart Recovery (TWRP)

6. Mount - Cache - Data - System - Vendor - Firmware

7. Install (ZIP) - Post-sGSI_3_v0.2.zip

8. Delete - format data - "yes"

9. Restart System - "Not Setup"

10. Restart Recovery (TWRP)

11. Mount - Cache - Data - System - Vendor - Firmware

12. Install (ZIP) - Gesture-fix-P_whyred.zip

13. Install (ZIP) - Magisk-v16.7.zip

14. Install (ZIP) - Camera_2API_technobuzz.zip

15. Wipe - Cache / dalvik

16. Restart System - Setup

17. Install (APK) - com_google_android_gms_12_8_72_090400.apk

Finished

Sorry for my bad english, everything translated with google.
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] darshan1504:
I'm not expecting a magical fix. I just asked if there is one. If it helps I can send my logs
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] Shahan_mik3:
Yes ...we both have fpc

Start log from bootanimation

And send dmsg.
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] darshan1504:
I have attached both.

LOGCAT- https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WAXJ040NGH8JEsSsL13OejGEctSZVM--/view?usp=sharing

DMESG- https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vYpHS0V3d5LDC32kepy6X9K3H8iwmZN6/view?usp=sharing

I have found these lines regarding the fingerprint issue in the logs. Maybe they'll be of some help ---

07-28 14:19:25.513 1380 2787 V FingerprintService: mDaemon was null, reconnect to fingerprint

07-28 14:19:25.517 1380 2787 V FingerprintService: Fingerprint HAL id: 0

07-28 14:19:25.517 1380 2787 W FingerprintService: Failed to open Fingerprint HAL!
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] Tyrany:
[MENTION=5162591]Shahan_mik3[/MENTION] is there any way to fix the swipe the fingerprint to notification on P ?
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] SHAWN_FROST:
I am on miui v9.5.17 so my device have a ARB count 3 if i flash project treble will it change to anti 4 also if i ever want to go back to miui will it be a simple fastboot flashing of stock miui or a complicated method. Please do reply
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] dzontra83:
Can you give the link to camera? tnx
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] dustmalik:
1, No, it won't change to anti 4 as long as you don't flash an anti 4 firmware.

2. Yes, simple fastboot will do.
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] ger_kar:
The camera from my post # 138 is not.

I have this from the Play Store: Open Camera 1.43.3
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] kiran G.:
Am on ANTI =4, shall i try to flash android P..??

Will there be any problem.?

---------- Post added at 07:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 AM ----------

can i flash DP5 in place of DP4..??

Also what about zips 1 & 2....?? am flashing android P for the first time.....do i still need to skip zips 1 & 2..??
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] ger_kar:
I'm from Redmi Note 5 Global - MIUI 10 - Global - 8.7.17 Beta (ARB 4)

Read my amount # 138 everything is in there, also DP5 (P_DP5_A_only.img).

Do not flash: POST-sGSI_1_v0.14.zip and POST-sGSI_2_v0.17.zip

Only: Post-sGSI_3_v0.2.zip

Sorry for my bad English, everything translated to Google.
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] arifqur:
I tried through all your steps but on boot up every app keeps force closing. Cant open the files app to install the google playstore apk as well.

Most of the fc's say something like com.android.media keeps closing.

Any suggestions?
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] samarjot:
Has anyone tried Oxygen OS 5.1.0

This is the post I'm talking about - https://xdaforums.com/project-treble/trebleenabled-device-development/rom-oxygen-os-5-1-0-t3822987

Presently I can't try this due to lack of resources

So if anybody could confirm or knows if it works, please let me know

Also which treble flashable zip file should be flashed of the 3 - V1r / V2r / V3r (Are these 3 different or just updates?)

Thanks in advance!
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] darshan1504:
[MENTION=5162591]Shahan_mik3[/MENTION] Have you found out a fix for the goodix fingerprint yet?
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] daveve:
I am a little bit confused maybe somebody can help me out. I am on multiboot recovery right now and whant a treble rom on primary and second space. Do I need to flash this zip to both locations or just one time and then I am good?
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] nkl0806:
Hey guys,

I have recently bought my "Whyred" (4/64 global) and have already unlocked the bootloader.

After switching to Miui 10 global developer rom (with official MiFlash Tool) I wanted to test some custom roms. Therefore I have enabled the developer options, USB-Debugging and OEM Unlock. After this I have booted TWRP 3.2.2.0 with fastboot and flashed the TWRP image to the phone via the booted recovery. Followed by the no-verity-opt-zip (6.0) and Magisk v16.7 to root the phone.

On this basis I went back to the recovery and did a factory reset, followed by an advanced wipe of dalvik, cache, data, system and vendor. Afterwards I have moved the whyred-treble-vendor (zip-file) and the PixelExperience GSI to my phone. First I have flashed the vendor-zip and then switched to image and flashed the GSI as system-image.

And now comes the problem: when I try to reboot to the system it always states "No Os installed". By wiping the cache and data again, I am able to boot to the system, but the phone is stucked on the Mi-Logo

After recovering my phone with the MiFlash Tool (Miui 10 global developer rom), I have tried to flash the GSI in different ways according to a lot of guides I have found in the net, but nothing is working. All methods are leading to the same result: my phone stucks on Mi-Logo

Could anyone of you give me a hint about what I am doing wrong?

Thank you!

Best regards,

nkl
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] darshan1504:
Are you getting any error while flashing vendor? Did you mount the system and vendor partitions before flashing?
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] nkl0806:
Hey,

Thank you for your reaction!

No, I am not getting any error by flashing the vendor. It runs smoothly through and sends back 1 as result - so I guess it works out.

Yes, I have mounted both partitions before flashing the vendor and the GSI.
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] dustmalik:
Maybe you just need to format data, not wipe data. Note that it will clean your internal memory.
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] nkl0806:
Hmm, I do not know. Coming from Miui 10 I have also tried to firstly format data and after rebooting do the factory reset as well as the advanced wipe of dalvik, cache, data, system and vendor - as the guide states. But it did not help at all and the phone was ending up at Mi-Logo :confused:

Do you think, that I first have to flash a custom rom, which is Treble enabled (like LineageOS) and then to go for flashing the GSI or can I also flash it directly with a fresh Miui installed?
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] kiran G.:
[MENTION=5162591]Shahan_mik3[/MENTION]

Found two bugs in android P PR1

1) at the start screen "POWERED BY ANDROID" is half outside the screen .....weird bug

2) notification LED not working for new notifications.

Hope they will be fixed soon....

Thx for this awesome work
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] Epac:
For me it was wrong GSI version. I hope you already double checked it.
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] nkl0806:
Yes, I did. It is A-only PixelExperience GSI (latest build). Could it also have been wrong vendor file? What is the difference between the 3 files (linked in the first post)?
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] noobstyle1337:
Thanx for this ...

it's nice to use my own treble rom
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] malI2007:
thanks v2 v3 for p
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] Epac:
I used v1.
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] toto_vanir:
Another bug on android p PR1 is the battery stats dont restart on full charge..
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] nkl0806:
Thanks for your help!

I managed to get the system (PixelExperience) starting after flashing like this:

1. I have reinstalled Miui 10 global dev with MiFlash-Tool.

2. I have booted TWRP 3.2.2.0 with fastboot and flashed TWRP.img with the booted recovery.

3. In the freshly installed TWRP I used format data to erase everything and rebooted the recovery.

4. I swiped to allow changes and did a factory reset under wipe, followed by an advanced wipe of dalvik, cache, data, system and vendor.

5. Then I mounted system plus vendor and installed LineageOS to have a fresh fully Treble enabled system (after Installation I wiped cache/dalvik).

6. After this I turned back to the advanced wipe and wiped system.

7. And continued with flashing the Treble vendor for whyred (V1).

8. Followed by the flashing of the actual PixelExperience GSI (only-A).

9. After flashing the GSI the boot menu still shows the message "No OS installed", thus I rebooted into recovery and did a factory reset.

10. Then I turned back to reboot the system and it worked out. Pixel Experience is booting like a charm.
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] ger_kar:
Is fingerprint working
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] Vidhanth:
Great work on Treble zip for Pie. I think Pie is almost daily driver material at this point, although the only small (but sorta negligible) bug is that front facing flashlight stays always on while using front camera. Just putting it out there, cause afaik this bug was fixed on previous Oreo roms, so probably can be fixed here too.

Cheers!
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] rayzen6:
Hi [MENTION=5579787]vasishath[/MENTION], hope you are doing good. Can we, whyred users expect something like you doing for cancro? I mean android P built from sources. :) or maybe source built GSI compatible custom treble zip like we already have for sGSI?

Sorry if I asked this too much early. :p
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] Shahan_mik3:
Once we are done with cancro we will update the treble zip for whyred
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] darshan1504:
[MENTION=5579787]vasishath[/MENTION] [MENTION=5162591]Shahan_mik3[/MENTION] Can you please fix the goodix fingerprint issue? I had submitted the logs a month back. Many goodix users are asking for a fix. If you need any more logs, etc I'm ready to provide them
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] sripin:
HI, Even I have the same issue, where you able to fix it,?

if we try to open the files app it force closes so I accessed it by going through storage > files and installed google play service but it's of no use, it keeps giving the error that you mentioned, even after a reboot

everything is formatted except for OTG and micro sd

Installed in the below order

vendor image >> TREBLE-whyred-V3r-P-260718

GSI>> P-PR1-sGSI-Aonly

POSTGSI >> POST-sGSI_3_v0.2

play service >> com_google_android_gms_12_8_72_090400
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] arifqur:
Do you have an sd card installed. If yes then try removing it or formatting it in the Device rather than on a PC.

All my FC'ing problems were due to the 64 gb sd card formatted in Windows PC. After I formatted it on the phone everything went silky smooth
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] rampureadi:
Hello [MENTION=5162591]Shahan_mik3[/MENTION] , I have installed this but i am having issues with fingerprint, it isn't showing in Security option please help
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] darshan1504:
Seems like you have a goodix fingerprint sensor. Till now we don't have any fix for it because the developers don't have a model with goodix sensor. You can contribute by sending your logs to the devs to make the process faster.
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] rampureadi:
I've renamed those file from goodix.default.so to qcom.so but it didn't fix it maybe any other solution or should i downgrade to Pixel Experience Andriod Oreo 8.1 to fix it?
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] darshan1504:
That solution doesn't work. It might work on one plus phones but it doesn't work here. The treble zip that you flashed is responsible for the fingerprint sensor and the zip is made by the dev for a specific device. For now I'd suggest if you really want to use your fingerprint, you should downgrade to an Oreo ROM.
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] rampureadi:
Thanks alot for your advice but since i am new to this flashing and downgrade stuff i have few doubts

1) Should i flash vendor like i have done while installing Andriod Pie

2) Any risk of getting device bricked?

3) If possible please share link of instruction to avoid any issues like getting my device bricked

Sorry for asking so many things it was my first time yesterday to flash device after unlocking bootloader and this happened so not sure what to do.
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] shrayv:
You need to follow the same instructions to flash a custom rom. Just wipe cache/data/system/dalvik and flash the rom and gapps.

Cheers
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries,] rampureadi:
Yesterday when i flash after doing wipe, I've first installed "TREBLE-whyred-V3r-P-260718" so instead of this I should only install "PixelExperience_whyred-8.1.0-20180807-1505-OFFICIAL" & "GAPPS"?
[Moto G4 Plus Questions & Answers] venkatkrishna_s:
I saw a couple of posts regarding battery calibration ..does it really improve the battery or does it reduce the standby ???if its good ..then suggest any..thanks
[OnePlus 6 Questions & Answers] stewart30:
Just recently upgraded to p20 Pro but really not liking EMUI so was thinking of getting the OP6 128gb.

One concern is audio quality as I use Bluetooth headphones everyday, can anyone advise if the audio quality is any good.
[OnePlus 6 Questions & Answers] Eric214:
I'm using the Sony MDR-X650BT headphones and have been happy with that. I don't profess that I'm some audiophile but it's clear, punchy with good bass and higher Max volume then my OnePlus 5 had before adjusting that with a custom Kernel and the headphones support apx not apxhd though. I'm waiting for a good Bluetooth 5.0 with apxhd without spending $400
[OnePlus 6 Questions & Answers] stewart30:
I got the free Bose QC35ii with the p20 Pro so was disappointed they didn't support aptx but audio is still good. I'm really just not enjoying my experience with the p20 and have always wanted a OnePlus. Managed a hands on with one today and it's a nice device and I like the idea of stock-ish android.
[OnePlus 6 Questions & Answers] Paz9:
How do you compare the camera?

I'm going crazy thinking the op6 pictures are clearer with better details?

Bluetooth on the op6 is better.

I've played around the op6 and own a p20 pro but I can't make a decision yet.

The camera is a hard one as sometimes I think the op6 takes much better photos with more details.

Where I'm from the p20p has volte and the op6 doesn't (carrier doesn't support op6)

I also dislike emui

Speakers on p20 pro is better however

The fluidity of the op6 is addictive.
[OnePlus 6 Questions & Answers] stewart30:
Never got to really test the camera on op6, however i fine the p20 camera inconsistent and sometimes over processed especially when using AI. I have a DSLR so camera is not a deal-breaker for me.

Speakers are great on p20, and android experience on op6 is far better as is the screen.

Still can't make my mind up
[OnePlus 6 Questions & Answers] Paz9:
Biggest deciding factor is volte

Is it worth ditching for the op6

Given that the camera can equal each other.

The p20 pro annoyingly over-softens everything.
[OnePlus 6 Questions & Answers] paulv1mk2:
I sold my huawei mate p10 pro to get the one plus 6 as i hated emui , i had a one plus 3t before the p10 and having gone back to the oneplus with the 6 i have no regrets, no the speaker quality is not as good but it is adequate and the camera takes excellent pictures but the os is awesome and so smooth. o2 stores have the oneplus 6 in stores why not pop in and try it out.
[OnePlus 6 Questions & Answers] croques:
My Huawei P20 Pro went back for other reasons to do with unwanted branding but if anyone doesn't like Emui then Pixel.2.Launcher.modded.5.3.build.23.apk gives a pretty good impression of a Google user interface. I ended up getting a OP6. It does loads of audio codecs - AptX included. The Huawei have a software fault and you are stuck with one AAC codec..

The Launcher above works nicely on the OP6; I prefer it to the OP launcher.
[OnePlus 6 Questions & Answers] gautam.malik:
I don't have a P20 Pro, but a P20. I used it for 1 week, and I was so disappointed with it, on the usability aspect.

Why do phone companies have to reinvent the wheel? Why there are duplicate apps such as calendar, calculator, etc. that Google already provides. Google apps, in my view have more features than the stock ones. True, oneplus has these duplicate apps as well, but they can be disabled. P20 doesn't let you disable Huawei made apps.

Secondly, P20's (EMUI) interface is no heavy and clunky. I am just not made for EMUI, and I would say the same Xiaomi's MIUI and other such skins... Touchwiz, LG. Hence, I returned my P20 and bought OP6. It was like returning back home (I had OP3T before).

But, back to the question on sound quality. I really like P20's audio quality via the speakers and BT headphones (Dolby), it is rich, is punchy, is clear and has descent base. Unfortunately, to my taste, OP6 has underperforming speakers, and a very average BT headphone output, even though it has APTX(HD). I miss the audio experience of P20.

I hope lineageos arrives soon for OP6; I will then install Viper4Android.

My wish is to have a fully functional lineageos/aosp for P20. But, I know it's a distant dream. Huawei will not let it happen. P20 has such an amazing hardware, but a very limited (and annoying) software experience. I don't think P20 will ever get Android P, although on papers it supports Project Treble.

The only phone that has near perfect hardware and software is Pixel, but then the asking price is sky high.
[OnePlus 6 Questions & Answers] masi0:
P20 Pro audio is pathetic while OP6 is much better. I use it with Sony WH-1000XM2 / LDAC and they play just fantastic with Tidal Hifi and Roon with high res files, altough those headphones play clearer over BT than on the cable.
[OnePlus 6 Questions & Answers] stewart30:
Thanks. Went to O2 today and messed around with it but was being pressured to buy so left.
[OnePlus 6 Questions & Answers] sanu26661:
Depth effect sucks on op6 i guess it needs a software update
[OnePlus 6 Questions & Answers] iantaylor27:
The P20 Pro does have a IR blaster which i used to have fun with in shops but overall Oneplus6 is much better. I am just confused as most sites say oneplus 6 has no mobile HDR support but people in forums say youtube HDR is working
[Samsung Galaxy Tab E  Questions & Answers] rsxmod6789:
I just got a used galaxy Tab E from Ebay I cant log into my google account on it keeps I did a hard factory reset and still wont let me login keeps coming up as the person who I bought it from account is there any way I could get this fix so I can sign into my account
[ZTE Axon 7 Questions & Answers] marcdw:
A failed backup in DualBoot Patcher has screwed up my SD card. It is now read-only. Details here...

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2447534

[PATCHER][APP] Dual boot any ROM on all Galaxy S4 variants!

Trying to scrape the cobwebs out of my brain to remember how I fixed this issue before on my little Galaxy Light a long time ago.

Any ideas?

ZTE Axon 7 A2017U, Project New World, Multiboot, Tapatalk 4.9.5
[ZTE Axon 7 Questions & Answers] residento:
Try : https://xdaforums.com/axon-7/how-to/fix-sdcard-encrypted-write-protected-t3768254
[ZTE Axon 7 Questions & Answers] marcdw:
Looks like no matter the method, something's gonna get wiped. Bleh.

LG G3 D851, PAC-MAN LP ROM, MultiROM, Tapatalk 4.9.5
[ZTE Axon 7 Questions & Answers] marcdw:
All night. All day. Multiple toolkits. Lost cause. No matter if at times something seemed successful, it reverts to same partition, same filesystem, same contents, same used/free space. Bah.

Oh well, at least I was able to offload everything.

LG G3 D851, PAC-MAN LP ROM, MultiROM, Tapatalk 4.9.5
[ZTE Axon 7 Questions & Answers] Choose an username...:
Well, one thing you can know for sure is that it wasn't DBP, because this is just very normal. The axon7 is an SD killer for some reason, but after some (a lot more) time it'll happen with any phone. How old was the SD card?

My axon7 broke an 8gb SD card that I used mostly as swap on my moto g2 before, with swappiness 100 for like a year.

At least they become read-only so you can get them stuffs out
[ZTE Axon 7 Questions & Answers] marcdw:
Yep, DBP was off the hook. Backup hit a bad section of the card but tried its best to keep going.

I think I got the phone only about a year ago so the card sure didn't last too long. Cards used on my G3 are still going strong after years. SD slot died on two G3s (access cards via OTG now), reason I got the Axon.

In the meantime I was going to use a 64GB card I have until I checked out the contents. All kinds of 2014 G3 goodies. Original firmware and backups, custom KitKat stock ROMs (SkyDragon, ZoneROM, CloudyG3), long lost/forgotten apps and things, etc. Just couldn't wipe out that stuff.

Guess I'll have to buy a new card.

Moto G5S Plus XT1806, AOSiP 8.1 ROM, microG (NoGapps), MultiROM, Tapatalk 4.9.5
[ZTE Axon 7 Questions & Answers] alvinlwh:
Don't worry, my Axon 7 killed (not writable) my 128GB card just after 2 months and half killed (corrupted files but still writable) another 64GB one after 1 month. These days I just save photos on phone and use card for media that can easily be replaced.
[ZTE Axon 7 Questions & Answers] argblah:
My 128GB sandisk card just became unwriteable after 6 months of use in my Axon 7. I want to blame the phone, because the total amount of data I've written to the card over its lifetime was about 100 GB.

Maybe I'll wait until the official version of Oreo gets released on the off chance it's an issue they have corrected. I honestly don't know if the Axon 7 is to blame, but I feel like I'm seeing a higher than average number of people reporting micro sd card failures with this phone.
[ZTE Axon 7 Questions & Answers] limenweim:
Same issue with my A2017 4GB 128GB version. Killed a Samsung 128GB EVO SELECT SD card within 6 months, rendered unwritable (and undeletable), formatting does nothing. It contained sensitive information from work, and I had to destroy the SD card.
[ZTE Axon 7 Questions & Answers] TPMJB:
I had this happen and Sandisk replaced it for free. Odd that it happened to someone else too.
[ZTE Axon 7 Questions & Answers] Choose an username...:
It is. It's known that this phone obliterates cards. That's why people are just changing them under warranty every time they get broken, but it's obviously a hassle