yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Hi,

Here is a sample of what I've been meaning to explain.

(In the next comment)

Photo 1 - Taken using Asus Zenfone 4 Selfie Pro

Notice that our faces are more detailed. You can even see some of the pimples on my face. The background is properly exposed with warm and realistic tones. Details in the background are also properly rendered and not overblown. Even the display in my Mac is visible!

Photo 2 - Taken using P20 pro camera

Notice that we look like people with Anemia in the shot.

Also, the background looks overblown. The details on our faces are so pale and blurry. Look at the screen of my mac, it's a messy white!

We all look like we were drawn to be in a cartoon show.

Colors are far from reality.

Take note that this is taken under flourescent lighting. Daylight shots are even better with the Asus Zenfone Selfie pro selfie cam.

If some of the selfies on my P20 pro album looks good for you, then imagine how outstanding they would look like when taken by a Zenfone FFC.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Pics below:
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] orangecroc:
I think it has a lot to do with the white balance making the overexposure worse too.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Yes, that is one major point.

Software processing can improve the quality to some extent...

Also, I think the other factor is simply because Huawei used a cheap fixed focus sensor as the front facing camera upscaled to 24 megapixels.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] orangecroc:
Also, make sure you turn off perfect selfie mode.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Yeah, this of course is self-explanatory.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Can I just say that the front facing camera of P20 Pro is horrible?
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] orangecroc:
This is not entirely obvious, because the option is in the menu and not on the UI.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] orangecroc:
There's nothing wrong with the camera, but there is definitely some bad processing in a lot of cases. This is from the front camera.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] subhani:
I see what you mean. I think they both look good. I would say reality is likely somewhere in between the two. Some of the P20 Pro samples do look soft whilst in other examples it doesn't.

There's this inconsistency.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
That is a close shot within the limited range of the fixed focus lens so it would be detailed. Try groufies with more than 5 people, the result will be almost unusable unless you edit it
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] orangecroc:
Use the panoramic selfie.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
What I meant when I said - field of focus is not actually the view on how many people will fit the image. No. It is the range or distance wherein images will come out sharp. I have taken many many many pictures using the front camera of the P20 on different scenarios and here's when it gets problematic.

1. When the selfie camera held at a full arm's length (Not a close up selfie shot), images look soft and unsharp.

2. Daylight group pictures are overexposed.

I've had it with the ffc of this phone. I am also not banking that they will fix this on the next update.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] pigsybum:
Solution

I have found a solution, download the app called "open camera" on play store. When using the front camera, adjust the exposure to -1EV, this will more or less eliminate the over-exposure problem, although u can adjust exposure to a value u prefer. The app even allows u manual control of iso and shutter speed on the front camera.

The issue with the front camera is that it brightens the whole image instead of selectively just orange skin tones, when used together with beauty app, the image is so bright everything is washed out.

Registered an account to post the above, hope it helps. ;)
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Hi thanks for the suggestion.

I tried that before, but Im afraid it is still not up to my standards.

I am fond of taking group pictures with many people at the back, and I'm afraid this time, the fixed focus lens is a hardware limitation for the P20 Pro FFC. Only the person at the front will have a sharp face, the rest at the back will be somewhat blurry especially when zoomed.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] pigsybum:
Indeed many things is wrong with the front camera, the biggest limitation to me is the auto-brightness when it detects a face, and is painfully obvious when u move a face in and out of the frame. I believe the Pixel 2 XL also has a fixed focus front camera. In all fairness though, even if the front camera can do auto-focus, as long as the faces in the frame is of different distance plane, the face in front or at the back, will look soft.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Yes you are right but the P20 Pro does so badly with Group shots... Many other smartphone front cameras handle it better...

I have written an email to Huawei about this and so far they have created a case number for me, but that's all.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] subhani:
Archer, I hear what you're saying and I'm actually with you. No phone is without weakness. The 4k video recording without stabilisation is a big deal. Although this is easily mitigated with Google photos stabilisation. The FFC is clearly struggling with exposure control and isn't ideal for groufies.

The phone is still on the whole, a MUCH better choice than its rivals on the the grounds that it has the best battery, fastest charging, beautiful and unique design, best zoom capabilities in camera, best low light camera, stellar 40mp camera, more novel than the very common iPhones and Galaxies, smoother to operate than the latest Galaxy, costs less than its rivals, high storage model, very respectable speakers, only flagship with a built in remote, dual SIM functionality, fastest fingerprint scanner, fastest face unlock, excellent RAM management... The list is long bro.

I can't think of another device other than a Pixel 3 to switch to. Really just for the unlimited full quality upload offer, Android P and their impeccable warranty support in the UK. And I'm not convinced by the Pixel, even then. But if groufies are really important to you, then I'm not gonna tell you not to look elsewhere. Granted, the phone has its weaknesses but on the whole, its the best of its class, IMO.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
I am with you too! Aside from the front camera, P20 pro is a beast!

Pixel 3, yes but unfortunately, I doubt it would available in the Philippines once released.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] gm007:
Firmware b150 fixed a lot the front camera.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
What region code? I'm at Baseline 130 - C636 but the problem still exists.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] gm007:
C185 Middle East.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] saisallo:
Have you tested it? If yes, can you please share some samples?
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] gm007:
Yes i am on firmware b150 and the front camera has been fixed to an acceptable level, sorry i can't share selfies ;)
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] saisallo:
using a different subject ?
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Acceptable may be subjective...
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] gm007:
There is no beatification when set to zero so it's been fixed if that what you want to know.if you still not sure try the firmware by yourself and let us know your opinion.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
I'm not really sure if the baseline numbers are similar or different across different region codes. So, I cant tell which one to use. Also, I couldn't care less about this phone's front camera anymore. For selfies and groufies, I use my spare phone, Asus Zenfone 4 Selfie Pro (with Google Camera port) and it is amazing!!!
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] freddyttt:
For me front camera being fixed would mean it shoots vids in 1080 P not just 720 P.... :(
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] user4001:
It does shoot in 1080p..
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] saisallo:
I'm out for my holidays: this front camera is absolutely a nightmare, horrible, always overexposed, the background completely whased out, in every situation, also at night, what the hell it's for? 24mb if real sxxx! absolutely disappointed about it, if at September this will not be solved I'll give it back and ask for money back. What a shame. The rear camera is as good as the front camera is bad. Absurd.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
This is what I was trying to tell these guys. hehe
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] mostling:
I agree, for a phone that's centered around photography the front camera is a total disaster.

This is my 4th Huawei phone in a row but right now i'm not sure i'll be getting one next time.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] otonieru:
am pretty sure you are not on latest firmware version.

front cam totally fixed on 150. even on 131 its no longer applying much of beauty effect.

am on 151 now. and there's no washout color or over exposed photo in any of selfie taken.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] subhani:
The HDR is poor in the FFC even in later updates but the detail problem is pretty much gone. I think Google's is too strong. A little on the other side of the imbalance. The correct image is somewhere in between the Huawei and the Google finished result.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] otonieru:
I dont think there's actually an HDR algorithm applied on front cam on P20 pro, LoL

So far, only google do that. And my girlfriend hate it for the fact that it exposed every flaws on someone face skin :p
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] mostling:
I'm on 131 and it's still my opinion that the front camera is not up to par for a photography centered phone, simple as that.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] otonieru:
well, as far as front cam concerned, OPPO is the only brand.i know marketing its phone as "selfie expert". While our phone marketing always emphasize its rear triple cam.

anyway, if you please ignore my "go to bed ready" face, here's samples, shot using front and rear cam of P20 Pro, on .151 firmware. (you may guess, which one was shot using which camera)

i can't say that the front cam is superior nor inferior to the like of, S9, or iP8+ or any other smartphone with similar price range outthere.

although, i would agree that, front cam result on initial firmware, up to .120 is kinda a disaster indeed :eek:
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Hi

Yes. I have tested P20 Pro front camera on different conditions. Here is my opinion. For close range shots, it can do quite decent results. Sometimes, even better than S9 in terms of toning and beautification. However, as I have repeatedly said many times, the weakness of P20 pro front camera is its LIMITED FIELD OF FOCUS.

Which means that anything that is farther than an arms length will come out soft, unfocused and very overexposed. This limitation is not good when it comes to:

1. Group shots using the front camera

2. Selfies with background sceneries
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] otonieru:
This. Is what i would agree.

Some people think that the result is soft. When its actually out of the focus range.

I only come to realize this after using the phone for few days.

But after i know the range of focus, i manage to get a good results for most of pictures.

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------

This. Is what i would agree.

Some people think that the result is soft. When its actually out of the focus range.

I only come to realize this after using the phone for few days.

But after i know the range of focus, i manage to get a good results for most of pictures.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Yes. And for groufie lovers like me, that is a deal breaker. I have a lot of friends and I enjoy taking pictures with them all the time. I also am a fond of having selfies with sceneries.

P20 Pro is a beast on other departments especially Night Photography but the front camera is a disapppointment.

For selfies/wefies, I just use Asus Zenfone Selfie Pro. It never disappoints. For the samples below both taken by Asus, notice the following points:

1. Even the people at the far back are still in focus

2. The scenery is still intact with great punchy colors = High dynamic range. Just look at the blue sky in the first picture.

3. Even with direct sunlight, our faces are still properly exposed

4. Details are sharp even though beauty mode is On

5. This phone has a wider angle than most selfie phones so more friends can fit in the frame.

Never in a million years can P20 pro match that front camera performance. Yes, it is quite a hassle to bring 2 camera phones (p20 pro and Asus zenfone selfie pro) but for me it's worth it.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] orangecroc:
The field of focus doesn't affect the exposure.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] saisallo:
Of course the right side pic, was done with the FFC.... And this confirms again, that I prefer the front camera shots Vs FFC... ..
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] otonieru:
It doesnt. But it affect the way our eye perceiving the image. Bright area tend to looks brighter when its blurry or OOF. Thats why it perceived as overexposed
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Image 1 - P20 Pro 24 Megapixels Fixed Focus front Camera
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Image 2 - Asus Zenfone 4 Selfie Pro 12 Megapixels Autofocus Front camera.

Therefore, a higher resolution does not translate to a better image.

Autofocus is more important.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] saisallo:
One million better the second...
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Theandroidfan:
How's the front facing camera now with the latest firmware?
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] subhani:
I'm on 152 for a couple weeks.

I really like the Huawei implementation. It's a complete different philosophy in the FFC, compared to say the Pixel. Detail levels are excellent in good lighting conditions. Detail is lost in darker conditions but maintains a better exposed image overall, compared to my Pixel.

Pixel has better HDR in well lit conditions. Easily. But it has that same over artificial HDR painting look in many pictures. But the backlighting is easily overexposed on the Huawei.

If you didn't compare side by side with a Pixel, you would never know there is any smoothening going on when you turn it down to zero. But side by side, the Huawei still shows VERY minor softening in bright light scenes and more so in darker conditions.

My conclusion is, the best picture is actually somewhere in between the Huawei and the Pixel. They are two very different implementations of the front facing camera. I find the HDR too strong on the Pixel, often adding dark blotches and patches to one's face that aren't really there and even exaggerates imperfections, making even the most attractive faces look a little messy and much older. The Huawei tries to do the opposite. White people look tanned on the Pixel and a person with a slightly darker complexion looks fairer or lighter. A great shame really. Or not. As a lot of us don't care for selfies. Many still do. But not me.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Crawshaw09:
P20 Pro selfie cam

Im still on .131, could you upload a selfie on the 1.52 update? could you also let me know what other changes the update brings?

---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 AM ----------

just spoken to Huawei about the .152 update:

The update includes the GPU Turbo acceleration technology, the Game Suite app, Google security update and minor tweaks and fixes to the camera.

There is no timescale as yet for the UK handsets to get the update its only European at the moment.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] subhani:
Correct. I would love to upload a selfie comparison but wife has the Pixel now and I'm home bound and sick. I've been meaning to post some comparisons for some time but I am not selfie material, if you know what I mean LOL. I'm camera shy too. I'll do it once fully recovered.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
I don't know how you were able to come up with Huawei showing very minor softening. I have samples on the google drive link provided.

On almost all types of lighting condition, Huawei shows softening on all pictures. If anything, Huawei is over-softening images.

Yes, if there's any consolation, Huawei hides almost all imperfections on your face but In the process, it kinda makes you cartoonish.

I prefer the HDR+ of the Pixel, its amazing clarity greatly outweighs all the minor drawbacks you mentioned.

I have been a P20 Pro user for 4 months and I am really disappointed with the front camera that I bought a separate selfie phone instead.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1m6ltpIt746bCY1D3TTUGTPY2YW-97gOS
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Crawshaw09:
Any updates any one? To say that it's a 24mp camera the software let's it down big time...
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
I'm on the latest baseline #152 for Region C636.

No difference. Same old same old.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] orangecroc:
Have you tried open camera? Works much better. And you can set exposure compensation to the volume buttons.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Tried Open Camera and MX Camera App... Yes, I see a difference but not really that much. Tinkering with settings is too much of a hassle (I don't want to do that every single time I take a selfie)

At the end of the day, using these apps can only do so much.

This still does not help that the P20 pro has a fixed focus lens with a very limited field. Groufies are still bland/soft/OOF A.F.

I have accepted the fact that this phone is only good with close range head shot selfies (Like your attached photo)

Other than that, the FFC is pretty much unusable (In my standards)

For comparison, here is a low light groufie using 2 different selfie phones.

(1) Asus Zenfone 4 Selfie Pro

(2) P20 Pro
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] otonieru:
You are right,

fixed focus lens wont be able to match the variable focus lens in term of flexibility, and it can't be compared apple to apple,

and thats exactly why this phone never marketed as a selfie phone, nor groupfie phone.

although,

am pretty amazed by how poor your selfie result is, its shaky and the exposure is very bad. And i can't relate to that problem on my .152

i think its because you didnt use timer when do selfie, dont you ? thats why its shaky, and make it worse
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
I am pretty sure my hands were steady, my lens is clean. It's just like that...

It's really not well-lit in that pub. Although, I am sure that even if I used a tripod when taking that selfie, the result will not be that far off based on experience.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
And about this....

(Shaking my head)

No ifs... No buts...
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] saisallo:
No shakie.... FFC sucks also at 152, and I waste 3 to 6 mb for each horrible selfie.

The fixed focus i believe is an hardware problem that cannot be improved.

The exposure, the low light insane boost, and above all the white balance changing insanely fast stopping to wrong value, MUST be corrected.

FFC = 24mb of s***
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] mostling:
Agreed, i can't understand why they would cut corners on the front camera, specially for a phone at the price point of the P20 Pro.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
Agreed! I just dont understand also given the price point!

Also, notice this:

Front camera performance

Huawei P10 plus > Huawei P20 pro

Huawei Mate 9 > Huawei Mate 10 pro

In recent units, it seems that Huawei has taken less focus on their front cameras. I know this because I also happen to have a Mate 10 before (Which I sold now because of the bad front camera, even worse than P20 pro).

What I don't understand is why is that, that P10 plus and Huawei Mate 9 are better than their upgraded models in terms of FFC???

Did Huawei just decide to improve the rear camera instead? Improve the processor? The display? The battery? But leave the front camera at the back seat?

IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME...
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] subhani:
https://imgur.com/a/3dbgTZ1

I accept that the FFC on the P20 Pro could be better but it is by no means as bad as many here are making it out to be. I compare the venerable Pixel XL to the P20 Pro. As you can see, the Pixel underexposes in some instances, especially when backlit. The Pixel over exaggerates the skin textures, to the point that one appears to have some form of skin defect, even when this is not the case at all. Huawei on the other hand goes the opposite route and over softens certain flat surfaces of the face. Sometimes suffering from overexposure in the backgrounds, lacking any form of HDR altogether.

All in all, the FFC on the P20 Pro is very comparable to the highly acclaimed Google camera. They both have different philosophies for producing the end result. The Pixel wins in some instances and loses in others. Portrait mode is just awesome on the Huawei. I feel the margin of difference between the two phones are not that big, although I will concede that Huawei could do slightly better, but I'd also argue that Google need to dial down the skin texture algorithms a bit too (and fix the high contrast and underexposure problems). The most natural and accurate result is likely somewhere in between the two different philosophies from both these phones. Bottom line is, Huawei didn't do too bad, as some are suggesting in this thread.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Archer Casio:
I'm sorry but we are not making it out. We are actual owners of this device with actual experience and with actual samples...

Your samples are all but close up selfies that's why you were not able to experience the weakness of the FFC. Try a more challenging scene with more people in the frame or with a more dynamic background.

You will then see the dire disadvantage of the FFC more obviously

In fact, I have sent an email to Huawei support and they acknowledge the problem too based on the influx of complaints from other customers as well.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] bogdan1980:
P9 was ok on front camera. P10 plus too soft, no sharpness, to much white. P20 pro still bad compared to p9,

They cant get right anything.(huawei).
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Crawshaw09:
I too have just spoken to Huawei about the FFC ( Front Facing Camera ).

I asked them to include in the next update the following:

Turn Beauty mode off Completely.

HDR mode on the Selfie camera ( Huawei confirmed this is a software fix ).

Front Facing Flash option to “on” rather than “Auto”.

The ability to change the exposure via a slider.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] saisallo:
Thanks, but the point is not a general exposure control, but the low lights boost to the same level of highlights that causes "general overexposed" shots... So if you have the power to make huawei change this FFC, in my opinion You should also ask for an awb less sensitive or a manual mode for it, and completely remove the low light boost i. E. More contrast in photos and the ability to choose color mode like that in photo mode, and remove portrait mode as default for selfies.

And last but not least, the background more in focus....

FFC is absolutely a nightmare, it needs a complete rebuild.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] Crawshaw09:
Coming from a S8 that has a 8mp FFC, I'm begging to think the 24mp is just a gimmick as the quality difference is massive. I prefer the S8 selfie camera.
[Huawei P20 Pro Questions & Answers] saisallo:
24 megash..... You are right... I prefer even my old HTC one 2mp quality