yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Cruise General] surgex0:
My thoughts EXACTLY...imagine if we didn't have to modify the registry and tweak this / that just to make it faster...imagine if it ACTUALLY CAME THAT WAY!! I never thought such a task would prove to be difficult!

Also about the screen, I agree with you there too...Although i do think it is a TAD big..maybe a few cm off by what I would consider to be the perfect size...but alot close than a QVGA screen that's for sure.

Some great points from the article mentioned from above post:

"But enough about the software, what about the hardware? Isn't Windows Mobile really slow because it's insufficiently powered? Yes and no. Yes, because there are certain phones like the T-Mobile HTC Wing and the AT&T Tilt that feel like watching old people practicing Tai Chi. Then there's the Sprint HTC Mogul that's fast as lightning and feels more like watching Jet Li destroy a school full of martial arts students. I blame many manufacturers for not juicing up the hardware enough, and I blame carriers for overburdening these phones with too much junk that people aren't asking for, like the AT&T music store or Sprint video shop. "

"Even when using a super sluggish WinMo phone, it's less an example of a manufacturer not meeting the minimum requirements for RAM, ROM and CPU power, and more a problem of software which has not been optimized to run on it. This is often the service provider's fault.

For example, two phones with the same 400MHz processor can be totally different depending on how much optimization the provider decides to do. When you're using a slow phone, blame the provider.

"

that article has some other good points too, and that's all well and great for the future...but what are we supposed to do in the meantime?

Sit around and wait? I for one have grown quite impatient :mad:

Someone said it before, and it ties along with the article...that Apple has an advantage because they are actually manufacturing the phones themselves, along with the software and operating systems themselves in house...like the article says...windows mobile is great in the fact that it allows for customization and optimization...its the providers along with the oems (HTC!) who do not do these things and just keep producing polished turd after polished turd, and loading them with CRAP (big start menu, HTC Task, NO VIDEO DRIVERS)

It is up to the polaris team members to really step up to the plate with this one and see exactly what they can do as far as making a good rom kitchen, etc. Now that is something i am willing to wait for. What I won't wait for is HTC, etc. who promote their current products with false advertising, then try to make up for it by promoting their NEXT product, which will undoubtably be the exact same thing packaged differently, which is exactly what it has been like the past few years...when will the cycle end? Hopefully with the iPhone 2.0
[Touch Cruise General] hambola:
As far as push mail goes on the iPhone only time will tell. I don't think we need to wait for the next gen device, after the announcements during the SDK, Apple is going after the business market with push mail functionality.

The fact of the matter is, what's available now on the HTC TC is unparalleled, at least from an Apple device. To add to "le_paulo"s list above the HTC TC offers the following:

-Expandable memory

-Serviceable / replaceable battery

-True GPS

-3G or 3.5

-Stereo Bluetooth

-3 Megapixel camera that actually takes video

-Front video camera

-Microsoft Direct Push, Hotmail push, (still haven't seen anyone get Blackberry Connect working on a Polaris but this should techincally be possible)

-FM Radio

The list above is not conclusive by any means and I'm sure everyone can come up with some additional items. Honestly the iPhone is a glorified iPod with phone capability, and that shocks me that they don't even have stereo bluetooth??? You would thing at least for the audio experience they would have it. Also everytime I see an iPhone commercial when they tout the "real internet", they should add *does not include Flash enabled sites. Watching a special watered down YouTube hardly qualifies as the real internet.

This post is not meant to be an iPhone vs Polaris one, but I do see the comparison come a lot. The iPhone is a very slick device and a lot of innovation has gone into it. Something that can't be said about Windows Mobile which has been stagnant for ages. e.g. PIE is horrendous. The iPhone has made waves in the industry for good reason and credit is given where credit is due.

Back to the Polaris, what concerns me is the occasional lag in these devices. For example, opening Audio Manager when you have a ton of songs takes awhile. Changing input methods as mentioned earlier in the thread. I also feel that this device could be much more. I don't mind customizing the hell out of it, but honestly it should be fairly streamlined out of the box. I do have a Polaris and so there's no carrier bloat there, however there are still tweaks to be made. I guess it's just a different paradigm on WM devices and that's considered a positive thing by most of us. Otherwise we wouldn't be on these forums. It does get annoying sometimes to get it to be just the way you want it. Especially for the price paid.
[Touch Cruise General] gnick666:
M$ this, iPhone that... and every body seems to forget about the Android which is based on MSM 7x00 chipsets, and is open source whith JAVA as it's programming language... The software structure even enables the COMPLETE change of the UI... not just some overlay like .UI or wisbar, and so on for WM. You'll have the chance to fully iCrappyfy your PDA whith it...
[Touch Cruise General] JNGold:
First there are no Android products yet so it's not even worthy to mention it in this discussion. Second, Java apps? Are you kidding? Think performance of compiled apps running on a multitasking OS is slow? Java apps blow. As someone who has coded professional Java applications, I can make that statement.
[Touch Cruise General] pistonripper:
That does look promising....but the arguement is we should not have to modify, tweak or streamline our device...It should work straight out the box..considering the price we paid for it.
[Touch Cruise General] gnick666:
It's true that there are no Android based devices in the wild, but there are some demo devices that behave quite well for their specs ( vheck on youtube, etc). I know that JAVA apps are resource hogs... hell, a "hello world" app eats 17 MB memory (because of the JVM), but the android has it's own version tuned for mobile devices (again check the demo videos, or the free SDK). Also Andorid has it's own set of classes that are optimised for mobile enviroments. Performance won't be a problem, also because off the app management system... there are only 3-4 apps that are running simultaneously the rest have "snapshots" taken and are restored if the user decides to use them again...

You're right about that, and I also feel somewhat... disappointed about it. I only brought up Android because of the iPhone (I really don't like it when some ppl compare devices that aren't even in the same league).
[Touch Cruise General] hambola:
I did say that my post was not a comparison of the 2 devices. People had brought up the iPhone earlier and I was just commenting on that. The purpose of my post was to go back to the fact that the devices often lag.

Android is looking good so far, yet nothing concrete for us to go on or compare to yet. My 0.02. Would be interesting to see how they implement java on mobile devices as you mentioned above. Java is notoriously slow.
[Touch Cruise General] pistonripper:
If the pictures we are seeing plastered all over the internet of Microsoft WM7...if its not a memory hogger ...then thats a start...and if video chip companies stop LYING (how many times have you heard...this chip can do this and that chip can do that, read in particular qualcomm and nvidia) and if HW manufacturers support thier devices ...give it a bit of time, then the only think iphone will have going for itself is the edge to edge screen.

A lot of ifs.

Shame really a company like MS had no initiative and needed Apple to kick its butt....but its always the case...otherwise we would probably still have a Windows 95 interface for Vista.
[Touch Cruise General] surgex0:
I don't know much of anything about android, except for the fact that when i saw them demonstrate it's usage on a 300mhz msm7200 device, the guy was browsing web pages, using google street view (zooming in), and playing quake at 30 fps...ALL WITH 0 LAG

All i want to know is, why couldn't HTC do that with the TC / Kaiser?
[Touch Cruise General] kidnamedAlbert:
i agree but the iphone has a multi-touch interface. they have a guiar and piano app that you wouldnt be able to play on any pocket pc because they only recognixe one finger.

oh well i still think WM has better features.
[Touch Cruise General] gnick666:
For the answer check here

After the release of the Android (Q3-Q4, not like WM7-2009), the linux version of the driver will be available for anyone... maybe it will help the xda-dev community to cook something out of it :rolleyes:
[Touch Cruise General] surgex0:
are you certain about this?

i thought that the "information" that tells how to use the ATI functions of the quallcomm chips is considered IP (intellectual property) and is not ever going to be available to the public...

I thought the whole reason HTC didn't put them in with the kaiser/TC/whatever other msm7XXX because they said it would require further lisencing agreements...unless android actually made some kind of lisence with qualcomm to release it? in that case..that would be awesome

i'm one impatient mofo though...i need that driver like yesterday :-\

i'll pay someone to develope it :P
[Touch Cruise General] hambola:
Seriously I would go for a driver right now but I'm skeptical as to what a driver will do. When rotating the screen I get delay and I don't think a driver will fix that. My 8525 which supposedly had drivers still delayed. Right about now I'll settle for decent video playback plus a proper fix for the camera. But seriously certain things just lag out of the box. Stock ROM, try to access the keypad by hitting the green phone button and watch it paint the different parts of the screen. I mean come on, this is a phone, did anyone try going to the phone application and see it open up like that? Ridiculous.
[Touch Cruise General] gnick666:
True enough, but. Qualcomm and Google are partners int the Open Handset Alliance, the latest demo device runs whith MSM 7x000 chipset (i don't remember, I just got out of bed...), it has been announced that the Android based devices will run whith MSM 7x00 chipsets (info here), and Android runs on a linux Kernel, conclusion: we'll get the drivers for free :D

Also, thanks to NatronCH, I got this neat little link... as far as I can tell, that's the driver, or some part of it :rolleyes:

Edit: The full Android source will be released (whith the drivers), when Android gets released. (read link)
[Touch Cruise General] pistonripper:
gnick666...thats a cool find
[Touch Cruise General] surgex0:
I wonder the same thing...is the driver only for 3D graphics?

Or would it improve 2D graphics as well, for example, the phone dialer AP. being painted on the screen (i know exactly what you are talking about, i was explaining this to someone today actually).

I dont know too much about what the chip actually does or is capable of doing, I wish we had some more information.
[Touch Cruise General] surgex0:
Someone wanna port that to WM? :D

I'll offer up some cash!
[Touch Cruise General] TheOnly1:
Do you really NEED to play piano on your phone. Is this the killer app :D Btw, Apple's distribution model of the iPhone apps imposes some serious cencorship. And you will NEVER see some of the cool WinMobile utils on the iPhone because of this ;)
[Touch Cruise General] indiekiduk:
I've already seen cooler apps on the iphone built using the community sdk and released using installer.app. I'm sure that's gonna continue long after the official app store is launched.
[Touch Cruise General] gnick666:
Some stats for you, how useless the iphone is...

The iphone SDK has been released recently and in the first 4 days there were 100k downloads, while Android scored 750k in the same time interval...

Thats just the SDK... The only 2 things going for the iphone are the multi-touch interface and the design, nothing else. No 3G, no A2DP, no JAVA, no Video recording, no IM, no MMS, no Copy-Pasta, no removable battery, ...

And costs much more than it offers, and only apple or design f*gs buy it.

So please discontinue talking about the craphone, because this is a forum oriented for devices made by HTC and their support.
[Touch Cruise General] JNGold:
Yes, and already some major Windows Mobile developers are jumping at the bit to develop for the iPhone. Here's a quote from Vito Software...

Coming real soon....

The iPhone is equipped with BT2.0 EDR. It's just a matter of Apple distributing the proper drivers (heh, sound familiar?). I would bet money that Apple will ship drivers for that quicker than HTC will ship drivers for the video performance lag (not the optimization crap HTC has promised this month). You'll see A2DP when Apple decides to offer their own stereo headset.

Sun has already commited to bringing it to the iPhone. No big deal really.

No, but this is a thread on why an HTC phone pales in comparison in the performance of day to day functions to that of the iPhone. I have been a Windows Mobile user for 8 years now and I have to say that Apple in 1 generation has offered a quality product that in many ways offers a better user experience than any WM device. Sure, the iPhone may be missing features, but remember it's only a 1 gen device from a manufacturer who made its first attempt in the mobile device area (heh, not counting the Newton).
[Touch Cruise General] gnick666:
While I agree the current iPhone is a 1st gen device, but it still fails for lacking crucial functions, some which could be seen as standard in newer devices, and I don't belive the design and the new innovative OS can compensate for it.

I'm also not satisfied how WM carries itself (lack of general support, upgrades,...).

The only reason why developers jump at the iPhone SDK because it's not open-source, and there's no money in developing for open-source platforms.

I wonder what will Android bring to our devices (including MSM 7200 drivers). As far as I can see (based on the SDK, sw structure,...) it will be able provide every function of both the WM and iPhone whithout the multi-touch, and there are several good programs in development already (including MMORPG games :rolleyes:). Most people's favourite part will be the fully interchangeable GUI :cool:
[Touch Cruise General] surgex0:
When I bought my TC, I laid down a lot of cash. I thought it would be the last phone I would have to buy for the next 4-5 years. I was wrong, as it is a piece of sharte out of the box. I'm hoping android can be the savior here, cause right now i got the jackass look on my face and HTC is standing over there, pointing and laughing, saying "We got you!"

I'm a little confused though...is android itself goign to be able to be flashed to our devices? Or are they coming out with their own phones..or both?
[Touch Cruise General] gnick666:
Both versions will be available...

At first there were rumors of the gPhone, then Google told us there's not going to be a classic gPhone rather they'll provide the ability to create a gPhone (hence ROMs will come out for several devices), and the handset manufacturers in the OHA want their (classic) gPhone out in the wild by Q3 (Samsung especially, but Motorola as well).

There's a remote possibility that we'll get official ROMs from HTC (as it's a member of OHA), but I didn't ask them about that nor they have officially stated anything regarding the matter (only word is HTC will make PDAs whith Android, no word word "upgrading" "older" models).

Even if HTC does not provide us whiht Android ROMs porting it won't be hard, because all the necessary things (including video drivers) will be there :D
[Touch Cruise General] surgex0:
awesome man, thanks for the info..

at least this is something to look forward to!

It's gonna be interesting to see also, if HTC releases this "fix" at the end of march, and if it is actually gonna fix anything

I'm with android tho all the way :)
[Touch Cruise General] JNGold:
How can you be "with something" that's not even a real product yet?
[Touch Cruise General] ezman:
Ha, for some people that's the only time they *can* be *with* a product - when it does actually exist it usually disappoints!
[Touch Cruise General] surgex0:
Because it offers some hope to me...

Come on, anything has to be better than a stock TC out of the box, slow laggy POS...and that Fix from HTC that was supposedly coming "at the end of march" well I don't see anything on the e-club besides some stupid fix for the camera which doesn't make it any faster.

I actually used an iphone yesterday, for the first time, at the mall,

and it was funny, cause the guy at the apple store was like what phone do you have, and i pulled out my touch cruise...and he was kind of surprised.

But then he seemed more curious and asked me to load a web site on it.

So i loaded up pocket ie, and i have fedex.com as my home page, cause that's the site I visit the most.

He loaded it on the iphone and we did a side by side comparison.

Needless to say, the web browsing experience on the iphone was much more "pleasant".

I'm sure you guys already know its alot faster, etc, and the finger scroll actually works how it's supposed to, and you don't need to modify the registry and set the threshhold settings (thank the wonderful developers at HTC for that).

after seeing that coreplayer will soon be available for the iphone, http://coreplayer.com/content/view/28/44/

and it will no doubt be alot better than the one for windows mobile (with features like sliding your finger to change songs, a better smoother ui, and better video playback since the hardware on the iphone for video accelleration isn't dormant\disabled) I have officially been "sold"

I'm tired of pouring money down the drain for a slow, laggy device.

I wanna actually be able to scroll thru websites without lag, and without taking the stylus out.

I only hope that in a few months when the 3g iphone comes out that someone will actually want to buy my TC, cause at this point...after all these issues about it are publically known, who would actually want it?
[Touch Cruise General] hambola:
you should check out opera mobile 9.5 makes browsing sites a lot better than pie.
[Touch Cruise General] gnick666:
I belive the only way out -whithout the device being sold- for the performance issues is Android. That is if we don't get proper drivers (for example from the HTC Sedna), or the fix is inadequate (i hope the camera fix is not the fix intended for the end of the month).

I never liked the iPhone, and never will... there are some functionalities missing that won't be built in even whith the "SDK" that has been released recently... Maybe when the second or the third generations come out...

Maybe I'm just placing too much hope in Android, but in anycase it will have less security flaws than iPhone OS, WM, and also I won't have wait until hackers can crack the newest firmware before upgrading... plus I won't have to pay for the programs :D

BTW, did you try the new Opera? The touch scroll isn't laggy, works fine, and doesn't seem to affected by the touch screen bug... also PIE SUCKS!!!
[Touch Cruise General] pistonripper:
I can completely understand how surgex0 feels...when you are a owner of a TC and use a iphone..then the TC touch control does show its inferiority...ironic really considering our phones are called Touch CRUISE ! ....should have called it Touch ______ (fill in the blanks as you choose LAG WAIT SLOW RETARDED ..you get he message)

But I'm sure if you used the iphone a bit longer you would definately hit its limitiations.. "is that all it can do"..I did...but love the smoothness.

This is what surprises me..well written 3rd party apps...the touch feature works smoothly they actually give us hope. Also apps like point ui, icontacts..they actually make our phones fluid....

But I think its more Microsoft fault for being lazy...Forget WM7 ...6.1 has not been officially released..and that no great shakes.

What surprises me is that when you see pictures of 1998...yes 1998 windowsCE...its looks exactly the same as WM 6 only its black and white....and it still runs laggy on our devices (and I'm not even talking about playing games or videoes...well were not allowed to do that...are we!!) Microsoft deserves to get ragged by Google, Ubuntu, Apple and everyone else.. and HTC needs to realize how dissapointing thier TC is out the box....They are 2 cheeks of the same butt.

I don't know how to post a pic otherwise I'd post it....you'd be surprised....just a search on google
[Touch Cruise General] gnick666:
Well not exactly the same, I still miss the "New" softkey... :(

M$ didn't have any real opposition on the PDA OS market, and the opensource ones failed miserably... So they became a bucnh of lazy as***, and don't know anything about the needs of the users. I don't know much about WM7, but there's one thing I can say about it... it's LATE!!!

I've been reading the Android discussion groups and some neat ideas popped up... (Usage of external devices, incl. monitors, keyboards, mice,...) ofcourse there are similar programs for the existing WM devices, but it's still nice to see that things are heading in the right direction...
[Touch Cruise General] surgex0:
I do use opera mobile...I'm not sure I have the latest version though...I honestly don't see much of a difference...either way if you have a site that has alot of pictures on it, the page is going to be slow while scrolling / loading.

Now, if we were talking about sa $199 (US) smartphone with a 200mhz chip in it, this would be expected, and I would have no cause for ranting.

But take a look at the specs of the touch cruise.

Based on the performance, doesn't it look like the spec sheet is a total lie?

Android looks like our best bet, cause there is no fix coming from HTC :-\
[Touch Cruise General] surgex0:
jeeze...i have version 8.65...maybe thats why i don't notice a diff. from pocket ie? heh

I'll have to check on this
[Touch Cruise General] hambola:
yeah use the search function and look for a 9.5 cab. Do your research before installing it, because depending on the cab you use you won't be able to uninstall. also another caveat is the software's beta. having said that, it's very smooth and fast. you will notice a night and day diff between opera and pie. the only reason i ever use pie is for youtube (flashbundle only compatible with opera afaik). good luck.
[Touch Cruise General] JNGold:
Even Netfront 3.5 is a substantial improvement over PIE. As a matter of fact, for the meantime it has become my browser of choice (until Opera makes its official release).
[Touch Cruise General] kipmast:
Be careful, I installed this last night and it jacked my phone up! ended up hard reset to fix it..however 9.5 did look good.....cant wait for the final version.

I installed Opera 9.5 Beta QVGA (uninstall version) and it worked awesome until I noticed my HTC home plugin was acting weird. I soft reset now I have NO today screen plugins!! Even though they are ticked and performed many more soft resets and since removed OPERA 9.5 Beta. WTF??? How do I get my today screen plugins to show back on my Today screen? Any ideas beside the almighty Hard reset?? I'm bummed because The new Opera was looking sweet!

Thanks
[Touch Cruise General] pistonripper:
Well there seems to be some talk about accelerated driver for our Tc's chipset recently...so lets see whats happens..fingers crossed
[Touch Cruise General] gnick666:
Guess you mean the drivers in the Sedna...

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=381254