yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] dslul:
for those interested, I discovered that all the Sony Xperia from the X line (supported by the AOSP program) have Treble support since Android 8.0 (and up-to-date linux 4.4, even the Xperia X)

developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
thankz for the information
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] AsItLies:
Hey [MENTION=7675024]venom928[/MENTION] I see this has been mentioned already, in this thread, but after doing some research on the Asus zenfone 4 (2017), I think the initial indication of it being a treble supported phone should have a 'caveat'.

The device is only *partially* supported. Here's a comment on the subject by an Asus support person:

"Yes ZE554KL supports treble, that means we follow the design rule of treble, including HIDL, but since ZE554KL is an upgrade device from Nougat to Oreo, we do not create the vendor partition, but include it in the system partition.

So using one system image to boot on different devices is not work on ZE554KL. It will work on new Oreo device."

That sounds to me like a treble based aosp rom would never boot on this device. So, in a way, it's almost pointless to have it in the list? It's too bad, I really think I could like that device. But, as it is, it's still a *maybe* the vendor will get updates out faster, and *maybe* they won't. It being *partially* treble enabled may be of no help, in that regard, at all.
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
no it won't boot as the vendor files exists with the system itself. So if you flash phh-treble rom, it won't boot as the vendor files will not be present
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] Abhishek17599:
Can older devices support project treble .

. As redmi note 4 got ...(port).. I have Moto g turbo edition
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
Redmi Note 4 had an unused CUST partition which the developer used as his vendor partition to separate and store all the vendor files. Now I don't know if Moto G Turbo has got any unused partition or not, as far as repartitioning the system partition is considered, it is actually dangerous to do it, so developers might not take the risk, but who knows: this is XDA, anything can happen here. The best possible thing is to find an active developer in the G Turbo community and request him to try to port Treble, but do note that it requires high level skills and knowledge about Project Treble and don't ask for ETAs as it is considered rude in XDA forum.
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] phhusson:
Again, the vendor partition thing is mostly a no-brainer.

First, repartitioning the gpt is fairly safe.

At the very worst case, you end up with a partition stable missing the "system" partition, but you can still boot recovery or fastboot to fix it.

And then, there is my no-vendor solution: https://github.com/phhusson/treble_experimentations/tree/master/no-vendor

Which does not require any partition table change.

Treble requires to do many complicated things, but having a vendor partition really is not one of them.
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
Very sorry for this, I'm not an expert so I thought Vendor partition is the issue, sorry for that
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] DevLopX:
Samsung S8 - Treble?

Hi,

Is there a chance for the Galaxy S8 to obtain Treble? Samsung didn't introduce this with the latest Oreo update.
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
it's possible but it's a hectic job so depends upon the maintainer if he's going to invest his time in bringing Treble or not
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] giorgior.r:
And what about s9 ? If Samsung respect the rules it must implement treble in s9 right?
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] AsItLies:
yes
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
As S9 is Samsung's flagship, I guess it will come with Oreo out of the box so Samsung is bound to implement Treble support
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] droidkoder:
It does come with Oreo, so I hope that it will also have Treble support, the first Samsung phone to have Treble support!
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
Yep it comes with Oreo so it supports Treble, just wait for Samsung to release an official bootloader unlock method after that anyone can try Phh's AOSP rom on that device
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] goRt:
Interest bring shown on telegram as s8 creates a 1gb unused partition when Oreo is installed (can't post the screenshot for some reason and I don't know how to link to telegram posts)
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
I'm just curious to see what Nokia will offer this year with their Nokia 7 Plus and Nokia 8 Sirroco variant. From the time Nokia entered the smartphone market they didn't provide us with an official bootloader unlock method, and as the new devices are Treble compatible lets see if they release any official bootloader unlock method or not and also release the kernel source
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] phhusson:
I highly recommend users to take great care.

There is no additional reason for them to unlock bootloaders than before.

If they want to lock-down their users, Treble doesn't change anything.

Thanks for reminding me of that, I indeed got wrongly excited by their phones
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] SanketMohapatra:
Hey people I was planning to buy a new phone in the mid range so the only two companies that I see ideal at this price category and the service available in my place are Motorola and xiaomi.

So what do you think who offers the better hardware so that it will at least last for some years,Moto or redmi phones?

And yes I am definitely interested in the custom rom development once the device gets out of the company promise of the updates. So consider that thing in the mind
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
Nokia 7 Plus did excite me bcz it has got the right configuration under the hood but Nokia's history of keeping the bootloader locked bothers me a lot
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
I'll recommend you to wait for the upcoming Moto G6 Plus, it will be Treble supported and Moto unlocks the bootloader too. You can go with the Redmi Note 5 Pro too as I heard that it will get Treble support officially with the Oreo update but nothing is sure. This might also happen that Developers port Treble to RN5 Pro, so fingers crossed
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] janver22:
Will it be a good recommendation also to wait for the next OnePlus when it has Oreo and should be Treble enabled?
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
That will be the best thing you can do, OP6 will come with SD845, 6GB ram+, 18:9 display and a lot more. It will come with OREO out of the box i.e. Treble compatible and from past experience we all can say that Treble experience is going to be great on Oneplus devices. They are very good at releasing kernel source on time and providing official bootloader unlock method too
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] LifeIsStrange:
Treble on phone with sd slot

Hi xda.

I was windering if this is possible:

Some devices come with SD card slot. Can we have an ext4 formatted SDcard and use it as the separate /vendor partition? Maybe we can change thr fstab entry to "/vendor" instead of external sd.

IK this would have a downside if the user removes the SD card but if they really want treble they wont touch it. And also, with this method theres no risk of bricking the device by repartitioning the internal partitions right?

I apologize if this is extremely stupid. Im just curious
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
I also thought about this once, no idea if this is possible, other than vendor partition Treble has some other aspects too which are required by a device. No need to apologise as everyone is here to learn something
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
[MENTION=1915408]phhusson[/MENTION] I am curious to know that is it possible to flash the mido's system.img on other Treble devices???
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] giorgior.r:
Bootloader is already unlocked in any samsung with exynos ..you can just turn on oem unlock in developer settings
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
Ohhh I didn't knew that, thankz for informing
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] phhusson:
Yeah sure you can do that.

But then there is my no-vendor solution ( https://github.com/phhusson/treble_experimentations/tree/master/no-vendor )

Which doesn't require to repartition, doesn't risk any brick, and just uses the system partition that is available to do system + vendor
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
just like that zenfone??
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] phhusson:
No. The way zenfone did it prevents a proper GSI flash (Though it should might be possible to make it usable)

My no-vendor solution integrates correctly with a GSI.
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] Amirk365:
So you're saying that Project Treble can be used on any phone, in theory?
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] goRt:
Yes, anything's possible, but is the effort there?
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
it is there but at a slow pace
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] dj_chapz:
Im interested in general what actually Treble supports. For ex. some Samsung phones have UV and heartbeat sensors, or on the S9, there is this aperture shutter which opens and closes. Its all non-standard hardware not found on other devices. I assume Treble does not cover them, meaning AOSP will boot, but changing the aperture manually on an AOSP S9 will probably be out of the question as it requires Samsungs Framework.

A simple example: Phone comes with built in toaster and Oreo. The phone will boot and work, but the toaster is not required to work when passing Googles Certification as its not covered under their tests, meaning you have now AOSP on a phone with a useless toaster attached to it.
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
Yep a GSI will not be able to use S9's heartbeat sensor or any other extra stuff because they require Samsung framework but if the GSI is made and optimised specifically for that particular device, the GSI will be able use fully all the features. Just like the OpenKirin team making Treble based(device specific and optimised) rom for particular devices so that the rom becomes fully compatible with the device hardware, and this is also to be noted that those device specific Treble GSIs' also boot on other Treble compatible device
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] phhusson:
FWIW, in my GSI, I target 100% hardware coverage for all hardware.

That's additional work compared to make a per-device ROM, but I believe it is worth it.

Huawei devices are already suffering from the per-device logic, devices other than Honor View 10 are lagging behind View 10.

Also, heartbeat sensor has a proper Android API, so by Google certification, it MUST be available in a standard unmodified GSI,

so that's not a good example.

( https://source.android.com/reference/hidl/android/hardware/sensors/1.0/types search for HEART_RATE)
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
I didn't knew that, but its a nice thing, but one thing, phh-treble lacks customisation options and nobody is working on a RR/CARBON/AOKP/PARANOID/DIRTY UNICORN based GSI
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] phhusson:
Yeah, and it's very easy to build GSI for any AOSP-based ROM, so that's sad.

I'm currently trying to improve my build setup to be able to build GSIs for other ROMs myself, but my computer is not fast enough to scale to beyound AOSP

Not mentioning that I'll soon need to make arm32 GSIs (for Android Go devices) in addition to arm64 ones, so I'll have twice the number of builds.
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
Android Go devices have ARM architecture???? XDA will be blessed if you provide us with RR based GSI??, thanks in advance
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] phhusson:
Well, all Android Go devices that have been announced are 64bits CPUs.

So they'll have 64bits kernel, and 32bits userspace (perhaps just 32bits apps, to keep ASLR on native services?), to be able to run on 1GB RAM.

But there could be future Android Go devices running 32bits CPUs.

Android P should support 64bits-only architectures, so I think Android Go on P will be fully 64bits, but won't support 32bits apps..

Well, I'm trying my best
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
ARM CPUs don't support many apps and most of the newer CPUs are ARM64 so P will be definitely be ARM64. I'm just thinking how phones will run on 1gb ram when midrange phones nowadays have 8gb of ram and my phone lags with 1.5gb of ram too
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] dj_chapz:
How about the aperture blades in S9? They can be widen and narrowed, and the S9 is the only phone ATM that has this type of hardware.

There is DEVICE_PRIVATE_BASE, which should serve as a base for additional hardware. If Samsung implemented this correctly, would it be possible to extract the interface from S9 and add it to the GSI?
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] phhusson:
midrange, 8GB? yeah sure :P

Anyway, I've seen Google show demos of Android Go on a real-life mediatek 1GB device, and it was really impressive
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
Oneplus 5T is Oneplus's flagship grade phone but according to its price in India it falls under mid-range category, so midrange with 8gigs??

Those **** MTK processors, I just hate them, outdated architecture and heating issues with lags
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
For me it is............ phones above 45k aren't midrange devices
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] SanketMohapatra:
In India oneplus 5t and any other oneplus device is considered as a high end device officially and the statistics which are taken in the high end device segment has oneplus as 48% share
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
Maybe......Its better to keep the discussion about Treble only
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] pramodganigi:
Device Independent System Image for Treble Project

What are the factors to be considered to create system.img which can work on different devices supporting Treble.

Is there any depedency of System.img on .rc files?
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] phhusson:
Uh, you'll need to be more specific, you want the bare minimum? For instance to port Halium to Treble?

You'll probably need to run at the very least hwservicemanager in system.img, and vndservicemanager, keeping the environment, logd could be a good idea.

ADB is always useful of course.
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
Guyz do check out the poll on this thread..........................Newly Added
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] djlukas1983:
Does NFC HCE payment work on treble AOSP ROMs?
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
I don't think so because SafetyNet is broken, I'm not sure
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] djlukas1983:
OK I get it. But by my question I meant something like that: AOSP ROMs on the treble disabled devices like HTC One M8 lack of the HCE enabled NFC driver and that's why mobile payments doesn't work at all so if device is treble enabled does it contains the proper driver for that?
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] phhusson:
Yeah HCE is supported by AOSP, so it should be certified, which means that if it is supported on stock ROM, it MUST be supported on AOSP ROM as well.

If it is not, please report, to investigate whether the OEM/Treble Certification is at fault, or community GSIs.
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] Jalava:
bacon
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] pzy64:
Some devices got A/B partition.

Some got only A partition.

Does the second type lack any feature or anything.
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] phhusson:
Yes and no.

Both are considered "proper" treble implementation by Google, but with current A-only setup the init is not replaced when updating the GSI, which makes updating harder.

Google is testing treble updates (i.e. P on 8.1 for instance) only on their own devices, i.e. A/B devices, and thus totally ignore the problems that A-only devices don't update init.

And there have already been several problems linked to that.

It is likely that with P, A-only devices will get the same setup as A/B devices currently have, so this will possibly not apply to P A-only devices.

But, since most (all but Pixel/Essential) current Treble devices are A-only, I will work on making A-only devices update to P despite this flaw.
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] pramodganigi:
>> Experiment is to create System.img independent of any specific device. System.img shall work different Devices.

To prepare such system.img from AOSP source code, are there any depencies in System.img such as init.rc files etc....

As per treble system.img is independent of Device specific implementation.
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] phhusson:
I still don't understand what you're asking.

GSI is an established thing, it's what you get when building aosp_xxx target from AOSP, so you just have this and nothing else.

From which point of view are you asking? from GSI point of view, or from "OEM" (i.e. the guy making the Treble support) point of view?
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] SanketMohapatra:
Hey [MENTION=1915408]phhusson[/MENTION] can you and the Google pixel HDR plus feature in your supported GSI ROM so that each and everyone that boots it can take the advantage of it.

( it is just a very noob kind of question and I don't have any idea regarding what I am telling so please don't mind it if I am telling something very foolish)
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] theandroidguy:
If not the app atleast the portrait mode can be implemented as the sources are available https://www.xda-developers.com/google-portrait-mode-technology-open-source/
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] MohammedKhan7:
Does project trible support ota update?Or every time I need to download full image to update?
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] smeroni68:
Sorry... OTA updates from where?

Phh builds are shared on a public share hosting, and they are full images. Implementing OTA means building incremental patches and link somewhare with an ota mechanism to check and detect new patches and so on... I'm quite sure this isn't plan right now and dev has many things to do than implementing ota... but I'll leave [MENTION=1915408]phhusson[/MENTION] an official reply to your question.
[Treble-Enabled Device Guides, News, & Discussion] MohammedKhan7:
So I need download full image for update rom?? Isn't it official from Google?? Project treble i thought it comes with ota...Any official project treble rom that comes with ota?? #sorry for bad english