yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
First paragraph: of course, the phone does get warm. Most of the battery power is converted into heat. The heat up was one of my first observations, before I even knew about the excessive currents. Several times I left my phone in a carrying pouch overnight, next morning it was warm, battery drained almost completely. The hot spot is right below the main camera. At 20 or 30mA you won't feel that much, but at 100mA or so things will become very obvious. My first phone took ~50mA. And yes, the charger circuit is located right within the phone, but I bet this is a switch mode power supply which operates at a relatively good efficiency, so it does not contribute that much heat. In addition, the power dissipation decreases further as soon as the battery is fully charged - at least normally. The main cause of the heatup is the unit which draws this excessive current. Maybe there is a few more percent of dissipative power due to the charger, but I am sure you won't feel the difference.

Second paragraph: very interesting observations! Now I'd like to have a block diagram at hand. Maybe there is a link between phone and GPS unit, and the problem resides right within the phone rather than in the GPS section, only triggered by the latter?

What are we chasing here? At the end of the day we turn up a major product recall, and HTC was aware of the issue all the time, sort of? That would be quite a story.

Thanks for the nice reports!

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DrXDA:
Many thanks for the useful comments Buster. Heating-while-charging is normal in all devices with rechargeable batteries, but my Kaiser got really, really hot that day. I mean, abnormally hot. I remember I was doing some testing of a PPC application I'm developing, so I had to connect/disconnect the Kaiser to the USB port many times. The battery was already at 100% but I thought the charger circuit would be smart enough to shut down when the battery is already full. It seems to me that the repeated connecting/disconnecting of the fully-charged Kaiser to the USB port somehow triggered the charger to keep pumping current through the battery and this generated a lot of heat. This happened only once in the almost 3 months I've had the Kaiser. Normally it just gets warm, not really hot like that day! Right after this, I experienced the GPS problem and now the phone problem too!

I really hope this situation gets resolved by HTC somehow, because right now my Kaiser is useless as a phone! Totally unreliable. I was beginning to accept and live with the GPS problem (at least we know that a soft-reset after using the GPS solves it), but now the phone module is near-dead! I've just checked it again and the signal shows 4/4 bars, but if I call the Kaiser from my landline I get diverted to VoiceMail (as if the phone is OFF). When I do a soft-reset I get 4/4 bars and the phone works normally (sends/receives OK) for about 1-2 minutes, then the signal stays at 4/4 bars but I cannot make or receive any calls! At other times I get the usual cycling dots [...] and then the [!] icon meaning "No Service".

I think HTC is conveniently letting us do the beta-testing for them for free, something they should have done themselves before releasing the Kaiser to the market. I've just put my SIM card back to my old Nokia 8850 and it worked like a charm. 100% reliable with no problems from an 8-year-old heavily-used phone. I'll keep the Kaiser for a few more days to do some more testing in case the phone problem goes away, and if not I'll return it and hope the new unit works OK.

Will keep you guys updated.

DrXDA
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
Forgot to mention something. I think your assumption is correct. If you plugged in and out your phone frequently, it is possible that you tricked out the charge management a bit. I may be wrong, but from what I saw, even at 100% capacity the phone always starts in charge mode when it's plugged in (LED is yellow). It takes a little while before the current goes back down, perhaps into trickle mode (= LED goes green). If you repeat this plugging in & out over an extended period of time it is possible that you overcharged the battery. Not your fault, actually - but on the other hand this is an unusual handling which HTC didn't necessarily expect to occur. If I would have developed this, I would have disabled the charge start if the capacity shows 100% already. I already thought about this at the times of my old VPAIII ("blue angel" or what the heck the HTC name is), which had a similar behaviour.

On your other comments - yes, it seems HTC came out with all these phones a bit too prematurely. A case of too much pressure from management & marketing? Forces people into half finished developments. Makes them omit important features, cut debug time, shorten field tests and so on. Things get pimped up a bit instead, get shiny and colorful, packed with useless bells & whistles, if you know what I mean. Reminds me of the automotive industry. There's so much **** out there these days...

Best regards,

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] phi11yphan:
Same here: hot unit, high mAh, fast battery death. Wasn't always that way.

Don't mean to aggravate Buster by mentioning intense application consumption, but 6thElement's post sounds exactly like what caused my problems in the first place. Bought a used Tilt on eBay. I flashed Dutty's 6.1 over the CINGULAR HTC ROM; and it worked well for a month. Then, one night my Windows Media Player was under some intense use (short video clips from a 4 GB storage card, for a good 30 minutes), and then the phone was wall-charged for the night. I had stopped playback on WMP; but I did not exit/unload the WMP app. I regret that I did not exit WMP or maybe even soft-reset before setting it down for the night; because in the morning, I found a RLoD for the first time. (Took me 4 days to figure out I had the wonderful RLoD.) I recall thinking about how warm the back of the unit was before I charged it that night -- so my immediate thought when I saw the RLoD was that I burned out a chip or something.

After happily 'recovering' from RLoD, I sadly noticed excessively warm temperatures (up to 107F!!!) and that mAh was constantly high (up to 650 mAh!!!). Needless to say, my battery was good for no more than an hour under those conditions.

After my most recent flash (Sleuth v3.0), I get more standby time.... but I still feel like I fried my Tilt. And I can't help but feel it was because Windows Media Player was processing video perhaps too strong for the Tilt to handle.

I tried to remedy by flashing and hard-resetting (HTC vanilla, Sleuth v3, Dutty's 6.1, etc.) Turned off any auto-update apps, HSPD, BT. I don't even use GPS anymore, since I have a stand-alone Garmin anyway.

At best, I drain a 1350 mAh battery in about 7 hours, when only using ~15 minutes of talk, 1 or 2 RSS download sessions, 1 weather update. That's pathetic.

I've since bought a 2400 mAh battery (that just came in the mail today.) Phone is currently at 166 mAh and 87 degrees F with no programs listed in task manager.

Thanks for the thread. I don't think this is limited to GPS. Maybe RLoD initiates the symptom? Let me know how much more I can help. Less fun owning the ideal all-in-one gadget when it needs a constant lifeline to a trickle charge.

Phone: 8925 AT&T Tilt/Kaiser, US.

CPU: QUALCOMM 7200

ROM: 3.0 Sleuth (WM6.1)

Radio: 1.64.08.21
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Imsaffor:
i noticed something earlier whn i was using my gps. I have both telenav and route66 on my tilt. route66 isnt fully installed and as such. wont get a fix on gps untill another program gets a fix. long after i stopped using telenav and shutoff my gps. i loaded route66 and got an instant fix. I wonder, is it possible that the gps unit remains on and keeping a trace even after we turn it off? Im pretty new to mobile devices. But i wanted to share my experience.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
phi11yphan: Buggy, unstable hardware in the Kaiser? Why not? I've read too many reports about irreversible faults.

Imsaffor: Have a look at "HTC GPSTool". Once I had some trouble getting a fix, too. After applying a cold start to the GPS unit everything was fine.

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgpd:
I have the same problem with my phone (RLoD and then high power consumption) and I sent it back and I am still waiting for a repaired device or a replacement.

What I want to say. I have access to 2 phones. Both are equal and I created the same conditions on both phones. (Hard reset, no sim card and just BatteryStatus installed). The one with the RLoD consumes constantly 150 to 180 mA in sleep mode and > 300 mA when it is in use. The other one uses 1 to 3 mA in sleep mode, 30 to 50 mA with just the screen on and > 80 mA when it is in use.

In Summary: HTC Kaisers are able to fulfil the promised standby time. Everything else is unacceptable. Send back your phone, it does not work properly and in my opinion you can't fix it with flashing, because my two phones have both the same original rom.

Regards

Juergen
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pinx:
I get about two days of moderate usage, ~ 30 mins of navigation per day, same about music via headphones, checking emails, couple of calls, messages, bluetooth on 24/7, HSDPA on, but not connected all the time.

I'm quite satisfied with standby time, since my old Motorola A1000 drained 1600mAh battery in two to three days, only in GSM/GPRS mode.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] karlux:
I have 3 Kaiser devices now - two of them where bricks - I managed to unbrick them by removing the battery while holding the power button and plugged charger. Now the 2 kaiser devices have battery drainage problems - batteries drains very fast (few hours) and the devices become very hot - mostly under the keyboard on the right side - I guess it's nothing to do with the batteries as I have 3 of them - all of different manufacturers (Samsungs, Dynapack, Unknown). The 3rd Kaiser runs perfect - the 2 faulty ones are from vodafone and the normal one is from O2. The faulty kaisers had the overheating issue while with the original roms and radio versions - as well as with DCSv1.5 WM6.1 Rom and different radios - Polaris 1.58 and 1.64.

My guess is that's totally a hardware problem which is because of faulty devices!

Does anybody have any idea or solution to fix this issue - I really don't like the fact the kaisers are becoming hot and draining the batteries so fast!

Thanks!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
Yes this sounds like a serious hardware problem, and I'm afraid you cannot fix it. Somewhere i found pictures of the internal circuit boards: the heat source is either the GPS or the phone chips. Do these phones work normally otherwise; GPS, phone, HSDPA and all that?

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] karlux:
everything seems to work as normal - gps with tomtom gets fix pretty fast and works good, GSM signal is ok, HSDPA haven't tested yet.

I could take it apart, but I don't think there is anything we can do even if I try to resolder some of the chips - I had very similar problem with Qtek S200 - it was becoming very very hot and it was caused by processor I guess.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] whk:
Current AT&T Rom 1.62.502.0

This monograph is about the program called SLIDE2UNLOCK.

I am posting this in case it can help someone else.

I have a tilt phone and purchased one for my daughter. Over spring break I said - hey - I can improve your phone's battery life by putting Kaiser tweak on it.

I did so and she said "Daddy - I would like the IPhone slide to unlock screen. Can you put it on my phone?" I put it on MY phone first and when I knew how to do it (so I would not look dumb to my daughter) I put it on her phone.

She has emailed me several times now saying that her phone is "dying". The battery is down to 40 percent by noon time and she cannot make it through an entire day.

So - thinking about it - my phone is also dropping MUCH quicker - I have gone to almost total dim when on battery with the screen and I turn off the screen every chance that I get.

So - This morning I unplugged the phone at 7 AM and by ten AM CST I was at 70 percent of the phone. It usually is dropping about ten percent per hour.

I removed the program Slide2lock from the phone and now three hours later I am at 67 percent. I am now dropping 1 percent instead of ten percent per hour. That is MUCH better.

Now - further analysis - no proof here mind you - just supposition - I have noticed with slide 2 lock installed that sometimes my screen would go black and not wake up without a reset - I noticed that sometimes a message would come in and the screen would stay on. etc (weird stuff)

My GUESS here is that the parameters that I gave slide 2 lock interacted badly with other parameters on my phone (my daughters were set exactly like mine) and consequently - no matter what we did - it ATE the battery life.

I will try and revisit this over the next few days - if I can refute this message I will and if it still rings true after a couple of days I will post another note to update it.

Again - this is not to trash the program as we actually LOVE the program and will miss it greatly - it is for information for others who may be having battery issues.

Thanks,

Bill
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cincy1020:
Hi:

You could try S2U2, it is a slide to unlock program also. I have been using it for some time, and haven't noticed any significant battery drain at all. It is a great program, and also allows for fullscreen caller ID pic etc.

You can find it here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=353008

My battery will last up to 3 days (of course with minimal usage). With regular usage (some surfing, 2hrs of phone calls, a few texts, maybe 30 minutes of GPS etc.) my battery lasts a full day. I also have many other programs installed which use up the battery (SPB programs mostly) and still don't have a problem.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] phi11yphan:
Mine works very well. BT, GPS, HSPD, WIFI... you name it. Just not very long, and not cool to the touch.

Is anyone showing >100 mA on Battery Status? Try this: connect your Kaiser to your computer's USB. Let MS ActiveSync kick in. Watch your mA level change. Mine shoots down from > +200 mA to +0 mA, and it stays there for about 20 seconds.

Wow... if only it could stay close to that for hours!

After 20 seconds, it shot back up to +208 mA. Repeatable.

Any confirmed theories on ActiveSync causing problems? I've read posts about people wanting to disable it because they don't sync frequently... but maybe WM5/WM6 have an ActiveSync drain bug? (Not to rule out cheap hardware components.)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
Be careful with the BatteryStatus readings. If you connect the charger or USB, the currents are running INTO the battery. These are positive values, and BatteryStatus adds a "+" sign. Without USB or the charger being connected the readings will be currents OUT of the battery. Consequently these must be negative values, but BatteryStatus swallows the "-" sign. The 20 second delay you described is simply a "detection delay" of the battery gauge, NOT the real currents (I mentioned the delay of the current readings in the first post, I think). The charger does its job as soon as the yellow LED is on, and everything with a "+" sign is CHARGING, not DISCHARGING.

Having said this: are you sure the first reading before you connected to USB was with a "+" sign?? I strongly assume you actually went down from 200mA (-200mA, that is!!) to zero (power supply runs off external supply, charger did not kick in yet), then from zero to 200mA (charger active), with some extra delay in the current reading.

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] karlux:
hmmm... now it's getting totally weird - after I unbricked my two Kaisers with battery removing method, they are dead again after a night. Now doesn't react to battery method too...

Is it possible to send my two kaisers to vodafone or htc for replacement - I don't have any papers or warranty - just the two devices - what are my chances?

Thanks!

Karlis
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
What on earth should they do with it? They'll tell you to buy a new one. However, if you're a good customer they may offer you a fixed fee for a repair or something. Try it, and tell us how this turned out.

In the negative case they're still a good source for replacement parts. Want to offer one, or both?

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Raider77:
I had 92 percent battery life left last night and it sent a message saying quickgps had not updated so I told it to update. When I woke up this morning my battery was dead.

First time it's happened to me, I don't know if it was related to the quickgps running.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
Raider77:

I believe QuickGPS does not activate the GPS chip, but updates some "look-up tables" in order to locate the satellites faster. What did you do exactly? Did you have the phone in airplane mode? Did you use the GPS (if only by activating it for a moment)?

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] :
Leave your BT on (but not using it) it saves battery drain. I discovered it on my phone. I keep my BT on all day and night and my battery actually last a full day with use.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
gqstatus0685:

Very interesting. So Bluetooth does the same compared to the phone unit? I think I will have to try out all subcircuits, Maybe WLAN etc. does it, too.

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] :
Wifi will drain your battery because it'll either contantly be locked to your network or searching. But BT on (not using it) i.e through a headset or bluetooth stereo does increase my battery's longevitity. I created a post about it 2 weeks ago. Other people have tested this out or have confirmed it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
gqstatus0685:

I wasn't talking about having WiFi permanently on. Just a short activation to see whether it resets the abnormal currents. This works with the phone, but maybe not always (see post #1). Regarding the try I announced a post earlier: I've checked both Bluetooth and WiFi in a similar way, zero effect.

Extended battery life with BT on, interesting. Where's this thread? Perhaps it supports my thoughts about the immature hard- and software of the Kaiser (or does this extend to all of HTC's recent phones??). Fortunately I have no problem with battery life as long as my phone is not in this "excessive standby current" condition. 1% per day when everything is off (weekend), maybe 4 or 5% with the phone in standby and subjected to very low usage.

Of course things will change completely if you keep GPS, WLAN, Camera running, push your processor activity to the max (games) and so on.

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Autourdupc:
Dear all,

I have also a TyTN II (old SFR, flashed HTC then Schap's 4.31 - french).

I use to launch Tomtom sometimes, connect wifi every days and use BT sometimes in my car.

I never saw strange current drained from my battery !

PowerGuard is always running to see the current coming in/out of the battery, but never strange consumption after Tomtom !

With wifi, the drained current is more important than without wifi (normal operation), and BT has no "benefic" effect, even linked or not to the headset !

What I can see sometimes, is that current value do not match the context, I mean that sometimes, current is 100mA with wifi connected, then reach 180mA and go to 230mA... Why 100mA ? I think that the measurement is sometimes wrong, and the right value is the third one.

Hope this can help you.

Maybe I'm lucky with problem of abnormal drained current, but I have other problems with my phone (connmgr.exe that hang the phone and use all the CPU).

If you need more details concerning my phone, please tell me ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
Autourdupc: Do I assume right that you usually do not put your phone aside in flight mode, i.e. with the phone unit OFF?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Autourdupc:
Yes... I never use the flight mode !

My phone is always powered on, 24h per day.

I use sometime the GPS (tomtom 6.0), BT once a day and wifi twice a day.

No problem with battery, only with connmgr.exe and, of course, slow diplay !
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] daghood:
HI to all of you,

After 10 days of testing I can confirm the problem also exist on POLARIS (HTC touch cruise) :-(

Has any of you contacted HTC to report the bug? Maybe we all should do it!

Dag
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgpd:
Mainboard defect

Hi to all,

as I wrote earlier, I took my device back to the store, because I had suddenly this high power consumption.

I spoke now with a person from this store because I want to know when I will get back my phone and he told me, that this high power problem is the result of a defect mainboard and they are waiting for a replacement.

Regards

Juergen
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
Autourdupc: See, that's what I meant. It is very likely that you do not see this problem when your phone is ON - not vice versa!

daghood: Yes, I already mentioned the Polaris in the first post.

jgpd: the storekeeper's statement is only correct if you cannot reset the high standby currents at all. Which appears to be true in your case.

If, however, the condition disappears when you turn the phone on, when a soft reset is applied or so, you are looking at an intact device. All phones I had under test were in perfect shape, but could be made to draw the high standby currents.

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] daghood:
For me, soft reset does not work.

Only using the GPS many times reset the phone to normal !

Does it look like a motherboard problem?

Dag
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
If you can bring it back somehow, in your case by cycling the GPS, there should be no mainboard problem. Does it normalize if you switch on the phone?

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mugsee:
I've been playing around with my unit a bit more and think I have a problem with the GPS unit itself, because TomTom is not detecting any satellites. Despite the GPS not working, I'm still getting the strange anomaly of excessive battery drain.

Does anybody know if the GPS unit itself is replacable on the motherboard or whether a completely new motherboad has to be replaced?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pdaPhone_TM:
Hi people

after using the TytnII for a few months, I also discovered that I had the battery drain problem.

But after awhile by chance, I realised that it is due to my surfing of the web through the mobile network (HSDA... 3G). The reason being that after closing PIE, the internet connection is not automatically closed. You have to click on the network icon and manually disconnect it.

Now, I don't have any battery drain issues anymore.

Hope this helps. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
The GPS chip can not be replaced if you don't have access to proper surface mount repair equipment, and related expertise. No socket inside, usually the entire mainboard is to be replaced. Before doing so you should try a soft reset, and maybe have a look into HTC's GPSTool. The latter allows you to execute a "Reset" and "Clear Memory" to the GPS unit (whatever it really does). My GPS was deaf a while ago, and with the help of the tool it recovered immediately.

pdaPhone_TM: sorry, not the issue we are discussing here. See post #1.

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgpd:
Nice hint, but this is not the problem. If you really have the battery drainage problem, your phone sucks your battery empty in no time even without a SIM card installed and everything (WLAN, Bluetooth, GSM, GPRS) disabled.

By the way, you can use KaiserTweak or various commercial programs to automatically disconnect the network connection.

Regards

Juergen