yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DrXDA:
Good news - No GPS problems with new Kaiser motherboard!

Hi guys, I have some good news regarding the GPS battery drain problem. As I said in my previous post, I sent my Kaiser in for repair because of a problem in the phone module. They replaced the entire motherboard and as a result my Kaiser now has a new IMEI. The ROM and radio are the original HTC versions, same as before.

The interesting thing is that after testing the "new" Kaiser I'm happy to report that the GPS problem does not occur any more! I was very surprised about this, as I thought the problem existed in all Kaisers. Here is my test procedure:

1. Set the Kaiser in Flight Mode (all wireless modules OFF).

2. Do a soft reset so that the Kaiser starts in Flight Mode.

3. Run Destinator 7 and wait for a GPS lock (orange LED starts blinking).

4. After the GPS locks and shows my correct position on the map, exit Destinator 7 (orange LED stops blinking).

5. Let the Kaiser go to standby by itself (always keeping it in Flight Mode). Battery level at this point was 76%.

6. Wait for about 2 hours.

7. Wake up the Kaiser and check battery level. It was 75% in my test. :)

In my previous tests (with the old Kaiser motherboard), I would get a drop of about 15% during a two-hour period. This time I only had a 1% drop!

Possible scenarios:

1. The problem has been fixed in a new h/w revision (I hope!).

2. The problem is not present in totally brand-new devices, but after some use it may start to happen (maybe some components are stressed/overheated during normal/heavy use and the problem starts to occur).

3. It's just a random thing (some devices work OK, some don't).

4. I need to do more tests to double-check.

I hope it's (1), but I have the feeling it may be (2) or (3). The new motherboard is fresh and has only been used for one day. I fear that repeated heavy use and overheating by charging etc. may stress the components to the point where the GPS module is permanently damaged causing the GPS problem to occur. Being an electronic engineer I've encountered cases like (2), where ICs do not fail completely, but just slowly "degrade" and behave abnormally under certain conditions. In most cases this is caused by bad design, such as poor power supply or by not precisely following the IC's electrical specs, thus slowly stressing the IC.

Anyway, I'll report here if/when I have some new results about this issue. Right now my Kaiser is working perfectly and the GPS module shuts down properly after use in Flight Mode. :) :cool: :)

Edit: It seems that I spoke too fast... It turns out it was (4)... I've done more tests and unfortunately the problem is still present, but is less severe than before. See my new post

here

for more details.

DrXDA
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
DrXDA: at least this proves that there was something wrong with your phone's hardware. Please do take your time testing further, every now and then. If everything is still alright after running the airplane mode / GPS test 10, better 20 times then I would point at a new, cleaned up hardware revision. Please keep me up with your results !!

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] karlux:
Hi,

I read your post about sending your Kaiser for repair. Could you please tell me where did you send your device and did they replace the motherboard for free?

I really need to find some place where I can send those devices, because I have two of them with same issue - becomes very hot and runs out of battery really fast!

Thanks!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DrXDA:
Hi karlux, I just sent the Kaiser in for repair at my local HTC service centre (in Athens, Greece). It was under warranty, so I didn't have to pay anything at all. If your Kaisers are under warranty, just send them to your local HTC centre with a fault description.

Note that my Kaiser had a very serious problem in the phone module (see my earlier posts), so they *had to* replace the motherboard. The problem was simply too serious to ignore and was repeatable and almost always present. In the case of the GPS battery drainage problem, I fear that the service guys may not even be able to detect it. So I'm not sure if you will get a motherboard replacement just because of the GPS problem. Maybe you can try sending in one of them to see what they do. The GPS problem is one of those tricky problems that only occur under certain conditions, so it's not always easy to reproduce it. In fact, even my "new" Kaiser (with the new motherboard) may still have the GPS problem. My initial tests show that it doesn't have it, but it may be too early to say. But if your Kaisers always get very hot and drain the battery really fast, even in standby and even without using the GPS in Flight Mode, then it sounds like there is a more serious problem with your devices, so I'd suggest you send them in for repair.

Hope it all works out for you.

Good luck!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Red14:
Its not my gps but wifi that drains my battery in standby

Its not my gps but wifi that drains in standby

if i forget to shut down wifi and push the powerbutton off the battery gets warm sometimes, not always and batterypower is reduced quickly.

(and i have not been using gps for some time now . . . .)

it's wifi that on standby drains my power in no time.

i mostly shutdown my kaiser at night fully, so that is like a soft reset right?

it happened three times in the two months i have my kaiser now.

a nasty surprise right?

are there others that can verify this?

thanks, and . . . .this is a great forum!

greetz Dutch.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DrXDA:
Hi dutchxxl, what you are describing sounds weird to me. It shouldn't happen. I think when you have wi-fi enabled and you press the power button, the wi-fi module should shut down and not drain any current. When you press the power button again to wake up the Kaiser the wi-fi should turn on and re-establish connection. At least that's what happens with my Kaiser. I will double-check it again to make sure and let you know.

Based on what I've read on the net so far, it seems that one common fault of the Kaiser motherboards is high power consumption. In fact I've read somewhere that during manufacturing they test each device for high current draw, and if it exceeds a certain threshold they reject the entire motherboard. It may be that your Kaiser has developed this kind of fault.

I'll test the wi-fi on my Kaiser and let you know what I find.

Edit: I just did the test and I can confirm that the wi-fi shuts down properly on standby. What I did was I enabled wi-fi, then let the Kaiser go on standby and waited for 2 hours. The battery level went from 96% to 95% (practically zero drain). Do what BusterTyTN suggested in the following post, maybe there's an application running in the background that's keeping the Kaiser active. If it still does the same thing even after a hard reset and no applications installed, then I'm afraid your Kaiser is faulty. :(

DrXDA
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
dutchxxl:

I agree to DrXDA; WiFi should deactivate properly during standby. At first you should test against applications which may keep your phone awake. Pick a good task manager and see whether there's any suspicious app or service running.

Personally, I never had any problems with WiFi related power consumption during standby.

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Red14:
thank u for thr fast reactions

i'm now actively trying to get it again, but as i said it happened only three times in two months of much use.

it's deffo the wifi, since i reset regularly and dont much use the gps.

maybe ae buttonplus is in the way, i will reply back when it happens again.

thanks for your reactions!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] andrewwardlaw:
Seems to be ok

So after installing batterystatus and carrying out the standby proceedure it said it was at 6ma (confirmed by external test too) so am I right in saying that that is about the norm??
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Rumball:
Wifi remaining on while the ppc is in standby can be common if you are using a third party application or plugin to enable/disable wifi rather than using the Kaiser's built-in comm manager. PhoneAlarm is one such utility that has the ability to disable the power management of the Wifi so as to keep it on in standby.

When you power off your device do you see the blue wifi LED still flashing? If so then your wifi power management is disabled. Are you using a third party app to enable/disable WiFi?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
Occasional readings can be anywhere, but after a few tries you should be able to catch currents of <3mA. If the Kaiser is in perfect condition you won't even see a few mA.

T.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DrXDA:
New Kaiser motherboard - GPS problem STILL present!

Hi guys, just to update you on the GPS problem. It seems that I spoke too fast in my

earlier "happy" post

... Further tests with my "new" Kaiser (new motherboard installed) revealed that it still has the GPS problem, but it's not as severe as my old motherboard. So we can safely say that the problem has not yet been fixed. :mad:

The positive thing about the new motherboard is that the battery drainage is not as severe as before. Based on my tests yesterday, it appears that the battery drain after using the GPS in Flight Mode is around 2% per hour. My old motherboard was around 6-8% per hour, so that's a definite improvement, but still the problem is there. Another thing I noticed was that every time the problem occurred I could instantly correct it by turning on the phone module (exactly as described in the 1st post of this thread). So at least we can avoid the soft reset to correct the problem, just turning on/off the phone should do it. Also, I've noticed a definite improvement in overall battery consumption with the new motherboard. It just seems to last longer than my old one (same battery and same s/w as before) and also doesn't heat up as much when in heavy use.

After all this I get the feeling that not all Kaisers are created equal, it seems that the power consumption varies a lot between Kaisers, which is very strange from an electronics point of view... Also it seems that the GPS problem exists in all Kaisers with varying degrees of severity. :confused:

My recommendation to all Kaiser users is to always turn on the phone module, even momentarily, after using the GPS, so that the GPS module shuts down properly. Or, alternatively, do a soft reset after using the GPS. :(

DrXDA
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Red14:
third party wifi apps

-----Nope, wifi led is off, only gsm led flashes.

i have no phonealarm installed, and ae button plus is only an app to change the hardware button configuration, the wifi on/off message that pops up is from the wm6 system, so i dont think ae button + has an system manager build in.

(sorry for the baddd english)

i have not been able to reproduce the power drain again, so i will search and experiment further. thankx guys!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] thijn:
3G has the same battery drainage problem.

That's too bad. I was hoping that this would fix the problem.

I'm intrested however if you have the same problem after using 3G internet.

For example, I had a full battery last night. I soft reset the phone and looked up something on the internet using the 3G network. "Kaiser tweak" disconnected the connection automatically after 1 minute.

I went to sleep and 7 hours later, the battery was totally empty...

Are there more people with this problem? I also have the GPS problem by the way :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DrXDA:
@thijn: Wow, that sounds very bad! I think there may be an issue with your Kaiser. Did you use the GPS at some point before going to bed? If not, then that's a different problem you're having, and it's very bad indeed! Are you sure the 3G connection was off during the night? Maybe there was an application that kept the Kaiser on (the screen going off does not always mean that the device is actually in standby). I'm just guessing here. Unfortunately I don't yet have a 3G account, I just use the phone in the plain old GSM mode (just for voice and SMS), so I can't do any tests using 3G. In GSM the consumption is very little (around 6% per day, with the Kaiser in standby and the phone module active). I use Wi-Fi for surfing the net, no problems there.

As I said in my previous post above, I have the feeling that there may be a general issue with high power consumption in Kaiser motherboards. For example, with my new motherboard the GPS problem is still there (I was expecting this), but the battery drain is now 1/3 of that in the old motherboard. Also, the new motherboard seems less power-hungry overall. I'm quite surprised by these variations. It's just not right.

Is the 3G problem repeatable (can you reproduce it easily)? If yes, perhaps you can do a full backup, then do a hard reset and test it again. If it still drains your battery so fast, then it's a h/w problem and you should consider sending it in for repair. Just make sure it's not a s/w issue (3rd-party apps).

Best of luck and I hope you sort it out soon.

Keep us posted with your results.

DrXDA
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] thijn:
I didn't use the GPS before I went to sleep. I did exactly as described above.

I'm pretty sure. I saw the icon (next to the 3G icon, the one with 3G and the connectivity bars) change which indicates the connection is disconnected. As I said, Kaisertweak takes care of that. I'm not sure if this tool works correct. Perhaps I should test manual disconnecting instead of automatically.

Perhaps, but after the soft reset I only used IE and nothing else, so i doubt this is the case.

GSM mode also doesn't have this problem on my Kaiser. I switched network to the GSM network for now.

I will do some tests to sort things out and keep you all posted.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] geekraver:
Similar issues here; resets don't fix it

Up until about two weeks ago I was getting about 30 hours of use (couple of phone calls, pull e-mail every 10 minutes, about 30 minutes of reading RSS feeds a day, no wifi). Two weeks ago I used the GPS for about 30 minutes, and since then my battery has been draining in about 5-6 hours. Soft resets have not helped. Turning off 3G and using Edge has let me go a couple of extra hours. I'm seriously considering getting a different phone; I'm having to carry a charger around with me now.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rolandmuts:
KaiserTweaks installed? switch on/off HSDPA

Hi,

Been lurking on this thread for a couple of days. Have the following:

AT&T Tilt (date: 061107)

Samsung battery KAIS160, s/n 5fga279M

flashed the latest rom update from HTC, after update immediately did the soft reset (1.27.14.09, 22.45.88, 1.62.00.00)

Installed the batterystatus plugin, v0.05.111

Got Microsoft DirectPush enabled

No BT, no GPS activated

Installed a 2 GB micro sd card

Installed KaiserTweaks (latest version of xml, 0428 i think)

ActiveSync running in the background (that's default, when switching on my tilt)

Looks like the power consumption is about 48 mA when screen is switched on, right before the screen goes black. After activating the screen again, power is around 15 mA, jumping back to around the 50 mA from before.

Couple of questions:

- KaiserTweaks contains a couple of settings of starting up / turning off HSDPA, etc. How does this influence out of the box power consumption? Sometimes, like with PCs, switching on a certain item might take a lot of power out of the battery instead of leaving the item switched on. Might be an optimum setting there somewhere.

What i've been reading from the posts is this:

* When using the push email, talking on the phone ('business-style', so > 2 hrs, using the internet, then definitely your phone battery will be dead at the end of the day, correct?

* You might get some extra mileage when not using hsdpa, but 3g / edge instead?

* What is better for the battery: letting it be charged on the USB or wall socket? Short periods of in-between charges, or get the battery fully charged in one go?

Even though the type of battery might be less prone to 'memory', it's also another angle to check out.

Cheers,

Roland
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
rolandmuts:

There are some "power management" switches inside the registry, as there are in "KaiserTweaks", yet I noticed no effect on battery endurance.

With the standard battery? Sounds correct, at rough.

Yes, heard that, too.

Does not matter too much. Don't think in Lead Acid, NiCd or NiMH categories here. According to a LiPo battery manufacturer it is the accumulated, charged capacity which counts. Two times 50% recharge is equivalent to one 100% charge, and so on. As long as the allowable charge currents are within reasonable bounds, you won't experience much of a difference in battery lifetime.

Buster
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rolandmuts:
OK, well, installed all the doodads, will monitor power drainage over the next couple of days.

Working from home this week, biz trip coming up next week, so will use my Tilt in what i would call a business-like way. Will keep track of usage, hopefully adding to the information you gathered so far. Was hoping for better battery life with my usage pattern, but alas...

Downside of those extra powerful batteries is that this thing becomes even more clunky. But, this is always better than getting off the plane, starting up laptop, using boingo or whatever, to see what 'emergency emails' needs answering :-)

Cheers,

Roland
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgpd:
Roland,

when you switch from "direct push" to scheduled updates you can improve the power consumption a lot.

The biggest power consumers are "direct push" with 3G/HSDPA, WLAN, GPS and bright light.

On my device, I have ~50 to 70mA when the screen is on and ~1-5 mA when the screen is black.

I recommend KaiserTweak. You can adjust timeouts for the GPRS/HSDPA connections and activate power management features for the memory card (only if your card supports it) and many other nice features as well.

Best regards,

Juergen
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] digitalextremes:
AT&T Tilt

I have a strange issue with my tilt, it has happened to be couple of times now, when I install an app that requirs a reboot, once I reboot the device even though it's 100% charged, as soon as the device comes back up, it shows battery level as 0% and shuts down after the warning.

after I boot again, same thing happens, I disconnect the battery and reattach it and boot, everything is ok, battery shows 100% charge.

Anyone in the same boat as me? any recommendations on how to fix this issue, seems like the OS is not properly able to calculate the remaining charge or the battery is not sending the proper info unless I disconnect the battery and connect it again.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DrXDA:
@digitalextremes: Whoa! This is nasty! May be a faulty battery... I'll throw in an idea, but I'm almost certain it won't solve your problem.

Rechargeable batteries often need to be completely discharged to reset the circuitry inside the battery that reports the state of charge (in %). If you regularly top-up your battery and never let it completely discharge, then the counter may need to be reset. I've read somewhere that it is recommended to completely discharge/recharge the battery once every month. Note that this is not related to the memory effect (which Li-Ion/Li-Poly batteries don't have anyway). It is purely to reset the monitoring circuitry. Li-Ion/Li-Poly batteries actually last longer when topped-up instead of fully discharged/recharged, but the cycle should be done once a month to improve the accuracy of the % reading. Perhaps you could try fully discharging/recharging your battery to see if it helps.

I very much doubt this will solve your problem, but may be worth a try.

DrXDA
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gregslater84:
Mine is the same, only lasts a day with just a few calls and texts. sometimes drains at 100 - 150mah when in standby!?! can go up to 700mah when the thing is on! That's crazy!

Is there a high capacity battery available that will fit in the OEM case insted of me having to make the thing bigger?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rolandmuts:
Juergen, yeah, already using KaiserTweaks.

All, did not come across the problems with the GPS staying activated (or simply sucking power) in the background. 1-2 mAh when black, about 50-60 mAh when screen on. Temperature never exceeds 100 degrees fahrenheit. And yes, every now and then used the GPS with Google Maps, but did not do anything special to shut it down.

Remember, i flashed my Tilt with the latest ROM version downloaded from HTC.

Only weird thing was that only during one day my Tilt was resetting itself three or four times. Uninstalled the battery monitor tool, never had a problem anymore since.

My main issue is still that with all activities (phone, email, direct push) the battery never ever lasts beyond 12 hrs.

Will now do a couple of days without the Direct Push, see what kind of impact that has on the battery life and power consumption.

Buster, any serial numbers you need from my phone for your records?

R.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Ghxoxst:
AT&T Tilt here

DuttysWM6.1 hybrid rom

radio 1.65.14.06

GPS never used. ALL programs off except Slide to unlock. after about 1min reads ma with phone and all programs off. jumps to 42ma after slide to unlock come on. Turning phone on only now. just responded to a couple of texts. backlight is on its lowest. came back to today screen and thing jumped up to 205ma after texting. NO wireless, No BT nothing else running besides the the slide to unlock. Went on standby for about 30s and now reads 58ma.

its been about 10 min total and the thing has dropped 2percent in battery life with no tasks running, no bt, no wifi, backlight at lowest setting...wtf gives?

i have my battery full charged before i take off to work at 4pm. and by 2am its in red. Light usage during the day, very light. A couple of texts here and there. No bluetooth usage or gps as stated. My Hermes never died out so quick and i was on that thing constantly.

I dont get it...by the time im off of work at 11pm its more then halfway dead and this is while its on standby for literally the majority of the shift. Soft reset does not work. Stock battery.

what to do, what to do...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] f1ip:
My battery has gotten alot better now since the last roms/radios ive installed.

Currently have Dutty's latest rom on 1.65.14.06

I unplugged it at 10:30am today. its 8:45pm now, it still has 89% battery life.

Sent 2 SMS, Received 2 emails. No calls made.

Data ON (Edge only), Push Email ON.

BT, GPS OFF. So its basically idling all day.

Programs running:

SPB Mobile Shell 2.1

SPB Weather (updates every hour)

Battery Status

Phone Alarm
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BLL1989:
I tried this and left my phone on standy for 3 minutes and the current of batterystatus was 1mA, does this mean it's ok?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] f1ip:
yup, that's quite low.