yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Guilf:
Opinion from a newbie

My tilt is my first PPC - purchased in November. The very definition of a newbie - well, maybe not a noob anymore, but green. Have quite a few posts, but most of them are answering those questions I can answer to save the more senior people for the tough stuff. I have asked two total questions on the board - one, no one had seen before and required a return of my friend's Tilt and the other was just a stupid mistake I was making with an .rgu file that I worked on for about 12 hours before I finally asked for help. Point is, I believe that virtually ANY question ANY true newbie can ask has already been answered - I got from knowing nothing to cooking my own ROM with my own registry edits with merely reading and the search button.

What if you created a newbie section and there were a small group of members and/or junior members that volunteered to troll the newbie section and take care of the 99% of all newbie posts that either 1) could have been taken care of via a search or 2) are generally simple questions? For those in the States, think "hall monitor". If we run into one in the newbie section that we can't seem to take care of - we post the question to the main board, which is restricted to members or senior members or whatever. That way those Senior Members that are tired of dealing with the same old crap never have to see those questions and the main boards stick to real issues and new releases and such. Have a new ROMs thread on it's own so that Dutty's 3000 post threads on his new releases are off on their own since he and his beta testers pretty much take care of those threads anyway. Anyone can lurk and read anywhere they want, but Senior Members that just want to stick to new programs and new technical issues and such never have to leave the main board. I'd be more than happy to volunteer for something like that, since I'd rather see those with far greater knowledge than me focusing on cool creations and hardware fixes and such. Again, I know I can't answer everything, but it's a rare newbie question that stumps me at this point. Also, you have a situation where people earn their way in to some degree.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] GSLEON3:
Hey, I got one idea!!!!

Ban the idiot :eek: named Terchnology that has spammed every XDA forum from the Apache to the Wallaby! :p

That 200 threads right there!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] fisha21:
I think this idea would help a lot. I agree that thank you posts can overinflate a thread, but I don't think we want atmosphere where people come and take, without thinking of the effort people might have put in. Also, some people like to acknowledge it when they've been helped (I'm guilty of this myself).

If you click a link (add a star/ thumbs up whatever) when a post has helped you, that would allow people to show gratitude, but save on thread real estate.

Perhaps that could link into the seniority ranking, so you'd have to achieve x number of helpful posts before you became a senior member. Much more valid than just overall number of posts - even people with no knowledge can post 500 junk posts (assuming they're wearing their flame-proof suits!)

Taking it even further, could such a rating system be used to set up a "Most useful posts" system. Another forum I use has a "Top Quality Postings" box on the side of every page. As people add stars to any thread in a particular post, that post enters the top 5 posts in the TQP box. This list is updated every few days. It could be extended to include more than 5 posts.

I'm sure the sort of newbie that storms in to ask their question, without searching/ reading, will be immediately drawn to a "most Helpful posts" area, in the hopes of getting an answer without even having to type, never mind search.

Might be too much for vBulletin to handle?

FWIW, I have been a member since November and have 109 posts (mainly answering others' questions and participating in discussions - hopefully not too many stupid questions!). I have installed countless cabs, and flashed several ROMs (and rescued a couple of brickings). However, until I have successfully created my own custom ROM, I will continue to consider myself a newbie - regardless of the "seniority" my post count confers. Just so people understand where I am coming from.

Sorry, long post - still, shorter than Mike's so that's ok, right? ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] rico002:
i think there should be another section. like Kaiser Help Desk or Kaiser Misc. or even kaiser *****ing

but there will always be redundant threads ALWAYS
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] pkley:
The wiki really needs to be used as the end-all repository. Unfortunately it isn't kept up very well and often is out-dated.

The redundant threads annoy me less than the sheer volume of useless OT posts in useful threads. Dutty's v6.1 case in point. I was away over the weekend, by the time I got back there were 200+ pages. Probably 2/3rds have NO POINT and just take time to wade thru them, possibly overlooking something of note.

2 suggestions - 1. new rom's need to have a poll as part of the initial post so all the morons can say thanks and DL now! or WHOO HOO, I'm first! WHO THE FREAK CARES!

2. the wiki needs to be updated by all the helpful people, then linked to. It can't be that hard to do, simply cut and paste the solution that was posted...

ok, third suggestion - another forum has a "useless thread", basically used as a chat room. Cuts down on some of the OT posting within threads.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
heres another one for example.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=371570

and here

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=371583

could be more, just ran in to these in a matter of sec's.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] _Alex_:
LOL, you turned two redundant threads into two circular threads.

Maybe we should have a sticky that says don't feed the devs! Follow forum etiquette or we'll brick your phone! :p
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
The way I figure it, if I make them jump from 1 of their threads to another of their threads, maybe they will get the hint.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Dr Puttingham:
An interesting thread for sure. Brings back memories of my Wizard days (back when IT was the most popular forum, ehehe!) It got so bad with the same questions asked again and again, sometimes on the same page... The "Thanks, downloading now, 15% downloaded" posts, the posting of ROM's "pulled" by the chef by one particular a$$hol$, etc.

Got so bad some chefs left for good. Molski, Faria,I and others left for a while, to eventually return. I remember Sleuth255 saying SOMETHING like, "chefs come and go but the XDA will continue on because of the technology" or such... which I agreed with. (I know I misquoted Sleuth, I apologize) Some chefs got mod rights which evenuately helped the most, IMO.

At the end of the day we realized that there really is no silver bullet but eventually things get better....

Sorry to ramble, just deja vu.......

(BTW, thanks to whoever posted that the Search tab has been modified to search the site with Google, thanks! I didnt know as I never use it)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] neavissa:
the problem is that there are no categories or sub thread in threads, just like there is before you even enter a forum...

if dutty for example brings out a new ROM, everyone who likes it, wants to let him know and show appreciation. thats fine. but don't do it in the tread. the reason for that is simple:

the thread is 90% packed with people saying something like:"thanks dutty, great job" or "wow"...catching my drift? it makes it impossible to find a solution to a problem...

thats where the sub tread or category comes in. instead of just posting a reply, you will be ask where you want to leave the reply? if there are several categories to choose from, it would be nice.

for example:

new dutty ROM 7:

sub thread or category: radio problems

sub thread or category: ui problems

sub thread or category: gps problem

sub thread or category: blablabla

sub thread or category: thank you notes

sub thread or category: misc problems

those categories are always the same for every thread. which one to begin with is up the pros to figure out...

that way though, a lot of replies are directly directed to where they have to be...

thanks,

georgios
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Fitipaldi1:
User Reputations

I think it's a great idea and I like Fisha21's idea here about a simple way to increase/decrease 'reputation'.

Any vBulletin gurus know if this is possible?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] gorkymax:
Slap me!!

Slap me!! I bought my the very first day it was released and have been checking the HTC site twice everyday ever since to see if a ROM upgrade had been released.

I check the HTC Asia site mostly but that day I saw a post on Spb forums.. With shivering fingers I went to the HTC site (htc.com).. Confirmed the ROM was there and the first thing I did was to rush over to the xda developers site do a quick scan and posted a thread!! All this.. without even waiting to press the download link for myself!!! I just wanted to share!!!

I failed to realise that I would be offending someone by my enthusiasm. I feel that enthusiasm is the basic force behind this great site. I really have not been asking any stupid questions on these forums (I am not capable or qualified to post many answers!), I have signed every petition that has demanded such action (whether I own that particular device or not!) and have never offended anyone on this forum(I hope!!! :-)

I made an honest mistake but it was born out of honest enthusiasm!! If you still feel that "gorkymax" needs to be slapped.. So be it!! Slap him, I say.... I am the first in line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] gorkymax:
Just voicing some concerns and bringing the point of view of a junior member to this forum (and of course, still smarting from the slap!:-)!!!)

1. I think the word "Official" should not be allowed to be appended to "cooked ROMs, however great they may be. It really complicates matters when you are trying to search for "official Rom" upgrades via the search feature.

If you want junior members to find their way around on their own and the search feature to work better there should be a restriction on technical terms and their usage to prevent confusion. All cooked ROMs should compulsorily have a prefix or suffix to help junior members/newbies from heading off in the wrong direction.

Just my two pennies!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jon_k:
My SolutionMore moderation.

I believe that if the board got more moderators per-subforum, and had very strict and clear posting guidelines, they could handle the junk. Anything off topic would strictly be moved, locked, or deleted, preferably with a post by the moderator saying 'This is better asked on ATT WIRELESS FORUMS, not on a development board'

This would drive the totally clueless away to the other forums to ask petty questions at. They are welcome here, but only if it is questions about the products developed here, or questions about the internals of the OS, etc. Everything has to be about development or hacking in some remote fashion.

We can still have accessory boards and such, but on the development sub forums there is NO small talk and NO off topic posts. That would keep the development sections clean of general questions.

It's ultimately up to the site admins, but that's the only solution I can see. Perhaps the site admins can start up another forum for general discussion/questions about the phones, so that the newbies can be directed there.

This is a threat to the community here.

The off-topic posts are a threat to our community. If this drives the developers away, this forum will be a mass full of newbie questions. This isn't what anyone wants.

Several developers have already stated they will go elsewhere if this stuff continues to go on. Unfortunately, maybe it is time to move on and create a new forum for development. However, I would prefer that the site admins here try to devise a solution so everyone can continue development on this forum. We've got a good thing going, and we need to try and deal with the problems we've got rather than someone starting a new forum.

Words are cheap though. I try to make a monetary donation to anyone who I feel deserves it. If someone releases a new ROM and I install it on my phone and keep it installed for longer than a week, I donate 20 bucks. If a new version comes out, and I keep it installed a week, another 20 bucks donated. Money helps our developer more than anything else, as they do take time out of their lives to code/hash things together. I know not everyone is willing to shill out money, and they still want to say thanks, but this has been my resolution. I don't really like posting thanks, but I have no problems putting money where it counts.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Nick Collision:
So noob, you want to learn to post?

Watch this first!

http://www.starterupsteve.com/swf/posting.html?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] grandpareza:
I'm "new" here, and hell, even I agree with that.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jon_k:
Since we're unsure of what to do, as of right now we should stop assisting users whom we think are asking basic questions. Here's what I'm telling people who are asking very basic questions.

Anyone think this is good? Should I add or amend anything?

Others are free to use this as well.

Greetings, and welcome to XDA-developers

You may notice you might not exactly get the desired answer on this forum. Mainly because you're asking basic questions about the operation of your device that can be answered on a forum more geared for new users. This forum has a format set up more for development questions, bug reports, new development relases, etc.

For basic questions about phone operation, you may try:

* http://forums.cingular.com

* http://cellphoneforums.net/htc/

This forum is first and foremost for development on the Windows Mobile Platform, and to be specific, development on HTC devices. General questions about phones and their basic operation may be better handled on those forums linked above.

You may also ask the question in the "Kaiser" general section, although that format is mainly geared towards development too. I'm not trying to be rude, or trying to scare you off. I'm just showing you where you could go to get better help for the type of question you're asking. I hope you enjoy the site, and await your contributions here. Thanks!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Bundin:
This part only deals with the Kaiser part of the site, I've only glanced over other phones' fora.

I'd like to see 3 things happen:

Ratings

BennTech summarised this nicely here. I completely agree with all of his points, especially that there should not be a long posting ban for new users. The community exists because of all users, even the "annoying noob" (who can be next year's helpful senior member if he isn't scared off on day 1).

More subfora

One for questions only, one for ROM-releases only. Only chefs get posting rights to the Release forum. If you don't have it but did cook up a rom for release, you can request access. This makes sure all relevant info about ROMs is easily found and that the important not spammed into oblivion. In this forum, any chef would only post in his own threads, providing info/updates when they see fit. The subforum would be the first place to check when looking for a info on a particular rom.

The Q&A subforum can be used for all problems people encounter. If a problem is solved or answered elsewhere, the topic can be locked. If it's an often-repeated question, the topic with the solution can be locked/stickied. Hopefully, this will leave the "Kaiser upgrading etc." subforum for discussion, instead of endless answering questions. Trying to enforce standardised thread-titles can help as well if all chefs would use a version number system that distinguishes between any update.

[ROMversion|radioversion] Whatever question I have -- for a question related to a particular rom

e.g. [Dutty6.1|1.58.x.y]Can't connect to exchange server

[Topic] problems I'm encountering -- for a question that's not ROM-specific

e.g. [MMS] Can't send/receive pictures properly

This could be handled without too much effort for the admins if..

More/faster moderation

By spending only a few hours on the Kaiser boards, anyone can quickly see who make up the "backbone" of this (Kaiser-)community. There are a few people who spend a lot of time answering questions, pointing people into the right direction, etcetera. Those people could be asked if they would be willing to have very limited mod power in the Kaiser section. Instead of just posting "look here" they could lock the topic as well if a similar one exists already.

Limited mod power would be lock/unlock threads, sticky/unsticky threads, and move threads between subfora. They'd not get power over users or individial posts because they're not there to preserve the peace but to organise the Kaiser boards only. By using Kaiser-regulars as Kaiser-mods, you get mods that know what's outthere already, spotting repeats is easier for them than the Global mods.

Combining these 3 things could lead to a more organised Kaiser forum, where good posts stand out clearly due to positive rating, and with the people that contribute the most (quality-wise) able to keep them organised and tidy.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Martincyborg@gmail.com:
this is an excellent idea. why? Reward and punishment is the only thing that works with the noobs. we would get rid of all the flaming as well. Annoying noob, just give him maximum negative points. He continues, he will be be banned for 48 hours. Intelligent, knowledgable newcomer? just reward him with the thanksbutton.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tomsenna:
How to get to the end game...

Alex et all, (with all due respect)

There is a thread that discussed this subject quite closely. It was in the context of those darn "newbs". :)

Anyway, I believe the approach should be a bit more methodical. How about...

1.) forming a steering group made up of a handful of people.

2.) define the root problems, goals and constraints.

3.) have several live chats among the group (gotomeeting is free for 30days)

4.) solicit feedback from public as needed or desired via this forum

5.) implement per the moderators and "powers that be" allow

EDIT:

Here are some additional ideas...

A) "policy" suggestion that may increase the search success drastically. When questions are asked they use a standard template (not too rigid though) with the key information. After the sugestions roll in, the user will eventually solve the problem. It is their responsibility to REPOST the infomation at the top (edit the original post) using the template provided. Think about it... it will be easier to find information, help the newbs help themselves and others, but also help monitoring behavior.

B) Have several small "working groups" that share the responsibility of keeping the forum in top condition. How about the WIKIs, repository, solutions, ROM building tools, to name a few working groups? Each could have 2-4 members taking care of the respective items.

C) Currently, membership "status" is based on # of posts. Perhaps it could be based on contributions to the forum, with activities such as item "B)" above.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] moderateinny:
I don't think this forum is nearly as bad as others I've seen. It seems to be quite focused on upgrading Kaiser phones.

Create an OT forum and Rookie forum and be done with it. But even if you do this you'll still need to proactively moderate the forums or that won't work either.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Martincyborg@gmail.com:
jewcookie's suggestion is still the best. Report button and thanks button; how much easier can it get?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tomsenna:
Fire, aim, ready... :D

I think the idea has merit as part of an overall solution. I really don't think there is a quick two button solution out there. :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Cavey.co.uk:
I do not like these, I find they get abused by people giving those who have unpopular opinions -ve points rather than those who just don't bother to search.

I would honestly favour making a "Welcome" forum for people to say "Hi" in which would be required before they could post in the main forums (basically give people with 0 posts the ability to post new threads in that forum only and don't give them reply priviledges). This would mean if they didn't read the "How to take part in XDA Dev" instructions ("Search by...." "Post in..." etc..) they would miss the instructions about initial posts.

You can probably also achieve this using the forum software as-is (I could do it on SMF or PHPBB, so I guess vB should be equally capable) and should instill a sense of belonging and community rather than fear of people singling you out for ridicule.

You'd still get the x0 threads on new tech (XPERIA, Opera 9.5 etc...), but at least these people are making the effort to spread the news.

(And now I am going to take my "reports" and go and sit in the corner for 24 hours).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jon_k:
Request for Comments

We've still yet to have moderators or or site admins join in with their opinions on the policies. I'm hoping they intend to eventually. ;-)

I think the moderators fear endorsing this thread would be overstepping their bounds, and could cause retribution if the site admins didn't agree. Or perhaps the moderators don't think the problem is as bad as we make them. All speculation though. I'm just hoping word travels to the site admins so they can consider our proposals.

All of our comments here is just fat talk without the help and cooperation with the site admins and moderation staff.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] SacTilt:
Maybe when reading through this entire thread, you missed these:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1953213&postcount=45

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1953329&postcount=49

Is this yet another example of not reading thoroughly before posting?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Flar:
and these:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1953123&postcount=43

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1953123&postcount=44

:D

Greetz,

Flar
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Jewcookie:
Maybe there are some users who will abuse this button. But that will only be a few users.

There should be a few buttons. e.g.

"Thanks!"

"ROM cooking king!"

"Usefull contribution." or "Usefull post."

"Already been ask (1000 times!)."

"Flame!"

"Bad spelling."

There are only some examples. People that have alot of usefull contributions on their name won't be bothered by the few users who abuse the "bad contribution" buttons. This way you eliminate the abuse of buttons.

Uses who have to much "bad contributions" get a time ban and an email why they are banned and how to make sure they won't get banned next time. And there should be a sub-forum where banned people still can post. "Banned People forum"

In the banned people forum they can discuss their frustrations and mistakes. ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Martincyborg@gmail.com:
apart from the last suggestion of a "banned users forum" and "bad spelling" button I totally agree and think this would solve the problem to a large degree.