yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jarek91:
Oh that's easy Tater...you and me and Alex and maybe even ATW can just run naked through the threads screaming "FIX THE FIRST POST WITH THE ANSWER YOU PLEEBS!!!" ^_^

Seriously, when they come back and post that it worked and all (since most actually do)...we can just ask them to fix up their first post with the answer so it will help others. Heck, we talk so much on here anyway that I don't think a quick note asking them to do that is much trouble at all.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tomsenna:
The good news....

The good news is that it's easy to try/implement! I'm sure you'll get more that do and some that don't. Come on... cast it in stone, put it in the self policing rulebook.... make it so! ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tomsenna:
It sounds like a go then?

Actually, a couple of proactive things would help.

1) a sticky or whatever entitled "Have a question or problem, READ THIS FIRST".

2) if you're answering a question or helping with a problem ALWAYS put a link or reference to that sticky BEFORE you start the rest of your response.

The sticky could simply say: [suggested example, edit at will]

-------------------- begin READ THIS FIRST EXAMPLE ----------------

Please do the research before you start a new thread. Many questions have already been answered. If you still have a question or problem and

you start a thread or have started a thread asking a question or request help,

YOU MUST be responsible for closure on this thread.

Once the question is answered or problem resolved, YOU MUST edit the original post with the appropriate information. This community depends on each other for mutual success. Remember, more information is better, but clarity is key as well.

1) Add "[Solved]" to the beggining of your original title or the original message. This will help others to identify it as such and act on it as appropriate.

2) Add to the bottom of the same message using the following template as your guide.

------------ cut below here -----------

Relevant harware and software involved: [keep it relevant]

Problem Description/Symptoms: [explain it in detail]

Solution: [explain in detail]

Other references: [list of references such as links that have relevant additional helpful information]

------------ cut above here -----------

Be a good citizen, COMPLY or be TERMINATED :eek:

-------------------- end READ THIS FIRST EXAMPLE ----------------

Okay, that last part isn't funny unless you can do a good Governator impression. :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jarek91:
Yeah, that could be added to the sticky post...and 1 in 10 might read it and 1 in 50 of those might actually do it without us asking. Every little bit helps but we should resign ourselves to the fact that no matter how many things we do, we will still be intervening and asking for them to follow the rules. So I suggest that both of our ideas have merit and would probably work well if both were put into practice.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] kyphur:
I like this thread...

To be honest I was afraid that the villagers were lighting torches & sharpening pitchforks (yet again) but this has really turned into a decent discussion of the issue.

I'm sure some of you have noticed that I've been exercising a new toy, my "Colossal Hammer of Closure" attempting to squash several problem threads before they get out of hand.

Feel free to report these threads and Serial Threaders to the Mods (or just me if you'd like). I've already shut down on serial threader (13 new threads adding nothing but clutter in days).

Of course it always helps if we temper or comments. I try to not be too harsh and simply point them to the rules, the funny vid & the great Sticki/Wiki combo we have.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tomsenna:
Yeah, what he said...

Exactly what I was trying to say. The sticky can't stand alone. You have to lead the horse to the water. ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
but who's gonna make him drink. that damn stubborn horse.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jarek91:
ahh...but I don't just want to lead them to water...I also want to wedge open his mouth and shove a large hose down his gullet attached to a 4500gpm deluge cannon and throw the switch.. :D

Or in other terms...instead of just having the link, also actually state in the reply that they should update the subject and first post because I still think that there will be a lot that just ignore the link. Remember...I have great faith in our readers :rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tomsenna:
Robusting the wiki place...

Do you have a list of things you'd like to get done or get help with that you'd care to share? It'll be easier to coordinate and accomplish the goals.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] _Alex_:
I've noticed that others have started to do some major linking of threads to the wiki, with the most noticable contributions by Jarek91 on the 'Available Cooked ROMs' major update and DaveShaw's new 'Cube' page. (Apologies if others have added significant content, I can't be aware of every contribution :D) Major updates like this is great for everyone.

Minor contributions by everyone will eventually have the same effect. For instance, I prefer to update the wiki instead of my own browser bookmarks, because I know that others can access the same information I can. If more folks would update the wiki in this manner, adding a link here and there, even the seniors will have a reason to the wiki :D (Editing the whole page at once is probably why most people avoid making wiki changes. Once mediawiki is installed, it'll be alot easier to update sub-sections. )

In addition to more linking on the wiki, I believe what we need to do is start a FAQ page. I started to do this with the ROM Upgrading section, but realized that this isn't the format that should be done to the entire main Kaiser wiki, as it would make it less than useful for everyone that isn't a n00b.

So I'd like to suggest to take the existing AT&T FAQ page and expand that into a general Kaiser FAQ page. If we were also to phrase each question a couple of different ways and the answer pointed to the appropriate section on the main wiki, we wouldn't have to say anything more than 'READ THE FAQ', and they'd learn how to use the wiki more effectively.

What does everyone else think?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tomsenna:
Great. Someone also suggested a Glossary, which I think would be good as well.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jarek91:
I'm actually looking at the hermes glossary and the tech jargon in the wiki trying to decide whether to do a kaiser glossary or a device agnostic version...any preferences?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Sleuth255:
[size=+3]Ban the damn n00bs I say! Ban 'em all![/size]

That felt real good btw :D ...now I know why so many posters like to use big red letters....

Now back to reality...

Good thread. I like the idea of a peer rating system with auto-ban penalties and I bet there's a php plugin for this too. I've seen rating systems implemented on other forums with good results. I also like the idea of a newbie section which I've also seen work on forums frequented by much more rabid fanboys than those found here.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jarek91:
The more I think about it...the more I come to the conclusion that the focus really needs to be on the Wiki more than anything else. Not just pointing people to it, but getting people to participate in updating it. Somewhere along the way there really needs to be a shift in thinking about the fora. It should be that the Wiki is where you look for info and the fora are where you discuss new problems/hacks/ROMs. So basically what you end up with is the active discussions in the fora are about things currently being worked on and everything that is solved or complete can be found by hitting the Wiki.

I know that won't solve all the problems. Nothing will. But it seems the overall sentiment is "XDA is forums........................oh...we have a wiki, too." And while that may be the roots of the site and that may be where all the 'action' takes place, we should really try to shift the emphasis to the Wiki for info.

Since nobody has said anything about preferences on the glossary, I'm going to try to work up a device agnostic one. That way this won't have to be done over and over again every time HTC drops a new toy on us. Then if there are any specific terms (and there might occasionally be one or two), they can be put in the main wiki page for that model...assuming everyone plays along according to plan. Oh, and we should probably get a nice Wiki Work thread over in the About forum. That way we can keep up easily with who is doing what...why?...well in my case, I like to work on the wiki entry in notepad as I get a few minutes here and there then just copy/paste the finished page. By using a work thread, I'll know I'm not wasting time on a page that someone else is already editing.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jarek91:
Bumping with this idea:

Perhaps we should consider naming the forums differently? I can understand where new users would think that "Kaiser Upgrading" would mean any little thing you can put on your phone that isn't stock. Yeah, yeah...people should know that installing a program isn't "upgrading" but in reality it's common. Perhaps it should be "Kaiser General", "Kaiser Development and Cooking", and "Kaiser Accessories". This could of course be used for all device fora and would hopefully better categorize the purpose of each...?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
now ur just asking for too much young man.:D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tomsenna:
Agree with the bump and the add-on. I just read a recent post by a mod after he closed the thread. I agree it should have been closed, but the reason he gave missed the mark in my mind anyway. It's been said before, "Kaiser upgrading etc" just leaves it open to almost anything. There were two good reasons to close it... it was answered by one of the subsequent replies and it was apparently redundant. I'm just sayin'! :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jarek91:
It was the thread closed by mikechannon...that's what made me think of it. :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] MikeChannon:
Just for clarity I agree with both the above posts. The word upgrading IS interpreted by many (most even) members as anything you can improve on your phone. So in their eyes adding a cab file, wallpaper or any new app. is therfore upgrading and I cannot blame any reasonably new member for thinking this.

It might, I don't know, cause problems to change "upgrading etc" to development and ROM Cooking or something similar. I know it would save me a lot of time moving perhaps 5 or 6 threads a day because we have not named the Forum in a way that is self explanatory.

Mike

EDIT: I will check out the views of other Mods and Admin on this idea.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jarek91:
YAY...I knew it...speak his name and he will come...

Now I go to spread my evil ideas to other places as well. :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] AllTheWay:
Nice ideas fellas

Well I have been following this thread for a while now and I thought I would interject my opinions.

1.) I know this has been referenced before, but what about the idea of a novice sub-forum. This way people who don't have over a certain number of post say "20 or 50" can post there. Senior Members or other users, can browse the sub-forum and interject on a question that is posted or other issues that may arise. This may seem like a bad idea at first but I myself would not have a problem helping out novice users w/ certain questions they may have in there own section. It's quite often that I see many users on the first post ask a question that is literally on the next page and don't even bother to read the headings of the threads.

2.) I believe having the glossary page is a wonderful idea. I know on the Hermes WIKI there was some valuable information that is on there relating to all the different acronyms and other aspects of flashing / upgrading. This information really helped me as I transitioned from my Symbian phone to my WM device.

3.) Another idea that I was thinking about was having a tutorial / training video. I know this sounds very silly, but what about having a short modified tutorial on the in's and out's of posting. Sort of like when you started your first day on the job working for a department store or restaurant they gave you a training video to watch before they put you on the floor. This way everybody would have to go through the tutorial and watch it or read it. This would prevent a lot of questions being asked or posted numerous times. This tutorial could also include good places to start looking if you have questions, etc. I don’t know if this could be initiated when you sign up on the forum or just before you make your first post.

Now I think all of the ideas that have been posted have been truly great but we still have to understand that really it’s up the user. We can put in "security measures" or what have you, to stop the influx of redundant threads being created but it's really up to the users to change. I agree that something should be done but what direction that should go should be left up to the Mods / administrators of XDA developers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jarek91:
I agree with that. I think this has mostly been a brainstorming thread which has offered them some ideas to fuel their discussions.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tkalli:
We have the same problem on our Motorola forum.

People don't read.

We have a guide section, which we keep updated:

http://motomodding.us/viewforum.php?f=33

Lately we have been a lot request for a guide on how to this or how to that.

Everyone of the request is listed in the guide section.

:confused::(:rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tomsenna:
More Wiki and related comments....

There lots of people who deserve kudos for thier contributions and I am always appreciative of thier hard work. To them and the rest I request that you please don't take offense to these comments or questions. Just trying to improve things for everyone.

I was doing yet another search and it prompted my to post this. There are lots of Wikis already there that need updating. I was visiting the CAB Wiki, "Last edited on August 16, 2007 4:16 pm". Yikes, I thought, this should be a focal point for users to get the CABs. It seems to me that these CAB searches are silly.

So, I ask you all, are there any reasons it shouldn't?

Then while searching some more through how to stuff, I reallized that so many have the name of one person or another attached. Not the usual way of versioning from where I come from.

So, I ask you all, do you care and want to make it a bit more reasonable, or do you like it the way it is?

There is a reason towns have guidelines regarding signs. It can get a little crazy, loud and confusing otherwise.

Let me give an example:

If I (MCHammer) were part of working group that were responsible for the CAB Wiki mentioned above, we would work through the details of how etc., then publish the Wiki with the following "type" of recognition of resposibility:

Developed & Mantained By MCHammer, Fredflintstone, Bettyrubble.

Please refer to them for reporting errors or additions to this Wiki.

Or the alternative example:

MCHammer's Kickbutt CAB Collection
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jarek91:
Feel free to jump in and put in some updates. I think the core of the problem is a lot of the membership see the wiki as secondary (at best...) so it doesn't get any love. I'm actually trying to go through and hit some things that new users need/want...stuff that's scattered all over the place or just plain missing...like the cooked rom list and the glossary.

True but if you're talking about the one's I'm thinking of...there is a sort of reasoning for it. Take Alex's cooking page...it was designed, built, and is maintained by Alex. It's also completely based around the kitchen he assembled. It does sort of make sense that the page use his name since someone else may assemble either different tools or different versions of the tools that may or may not work using the instructions on that page. There really isn't anything wrong with that and there's nothing wrong with making a generic version of the cooking instructions that have generalized steps and tips that should be kitchen design agnostic. It's the same thing with the glossary I'm currently working on. There are a few already out there for specific devices (the hermes glossary comes to mind) and most of those terms are really usable for all HTC devices...so I'm making an agnostic glossary so the device specific ones can include terms specific to that hardware. I don't think there'll be a need for device specific pages...but you never know.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tomsenna:
I'd

rather

stay away from any particular situation and this also applies to CAB filenames that have names attached.

However, I will say this about Alex's work in area you mentioned... awesome stuff! He assembled, maintains, fixes, and answers tons of questions.

The questions inthis regard I was asking has really more to do with naming conventions for clarity's sake not credit for contributions made. The latter seems to often get in the way of clarity.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jarek91:
Edit: I am not opposed to that idea and I see how it has merit. But to further develop the idea...

The issue comes in with where to draw the line, though. For clarity's sake you suggest we discourage using a person's screen name in the file name or wiki page name. But if this is something that user created, can we really tell them how to name it? If 10 people make a cab file to fix AT&T settings but each is a little different...but for clarity's sake everyone names their cab "AT&T WAP MMS Settings.cab"...how do you know you're getting the one from JimBob instead of BillyJoe? How do you list that?

Unless I am totally mistaken, I think all of the cabs that start with "dutty" were actually packaged by duttythroy...so it would make sense to have his name in there to differentiate it from the package for the same program created by _Alex_ because they may have some differences such as certain dll patches or reg tweaks applied. Otherwise we might end up with "AT&T WAP-No Hidden Proxy and MMS Max 600kb Send-Receive Works with WM61 Only and Includes DNS and Performance Tweaks.cab" sitting out there. Now I know that's a bit of a silly example that goes kinda out into left field...but that's the extreme of clarity with makes for something really convoluted and scary to new users.

Which just comes back to...where do you draw the line to strike a reasonable balance?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tomsenna:
Your extreme example was excellent actually, but the names of the people you chose lacked your usual clever slant.

Anyway, I couldn't agree more. Perhaps for clarity's sake we ask that for CABs and other files, they do the following:

If the file is provided with little or no enhancements, keep the original name.

If the file is reasonably or significantly enhanced, add a prefix to the name AND supply a readme file with the details of what those are. The prefix should include some "identifier" of their choice and a short version number. The identifier can be thier name or dog's name.

For Wiki's I think the should look and feel more "official" and thus the bar should be higher.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jarek91:
I have my slow moments from time to time...and since I'm having to post from work as Dell sent me a dead hard drive to replace my dead hard drive on my home laptop...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tomsenna:
The best example...

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1990389&postcount=1

Take a few moments and read the above post.

If you haven't noticed before, please not that this person started a thread with a problem, got suggestions from the community, then proceeded to update his original post (top of the thread) with all the pertinent information to close it out. Now, anyone that does a search should find the problem, solution and additional reference information to assist others.

This is exactly what I was referring to earlier in this thread. A perfect example of what should be in the guidelines and enforced (by suggestions from the community of course) to make it work better for all.

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1563666&postcount=1

Now read this one and see what you get. (no offense meant to the originator) Although is says "solved" at the top of the thread, see how much more it takes to figure it out. Imagine if english isn't your primary language?

I'm just sayin'!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] tilted spectrum:
Greetings.

I personally found XDA through a different forum, which was recommended by an individual for PDA stuff... well, i have a smartphone now and it's great and wonderful... but I knew there was tweaking to be done since I had a toshiba e805 before and those are capable of being played with as well.

I started browsing here... and found a ton of information.

I also found through those posts, that there's alot of dogpiling that seems to happen around here..

When a moderator or admin jumps on someone, that's one thing... they're supposed to be. If you aren't a moderator or admin... you really have no place telling anyone what to do since you don't run the show anyway..

I thought I wouldn't end up posting, but this is about the best place that I saw to do my probable one post you'll see... I use the search function, I browse as well. I read and research before I make a move most of the time.

I understand how tiring it can get with eleventy billion repeditive posts... I mean, I had a full screen on my 1280x1024 desktop of just who's online... that's impressive for a forum, I only know of a few that do that regularily.

One moderator intensive that i have seen implemented elsewhere, that works... as threads are created that are redundant, they are locked with a link to the relevant main thread from a mod as the last post. If you as a senior/junior/whatever user know of a thread where the issue being brought up is addressed, you do the same. That's it. Post up the link and lock it.

Eventually the search engine gets populated with enough terminology from all the locked threads that it will be able to orient someone searching to the correct term/issue/thread with a higher degree of accuracy.

Another simple problem is the fact that you have a wide WIDE range of people who have purchased these phones... most of which probably didn't know anything about the actual power of the device they're getting. Look at who exactly gets a cellphone... Every village idiot, elder, mother and child. Unfortunately for those of us who have a semblance of intelligence, the village idiots tend to be the most vocal.. and for some reason get elected to leadership positions.

It's like standard home PC's... most people are best served with an e-machine, but some buy VooDoo just because it looks cool.... not even knowing exactly what they can do with it, then coming up with tons of "stupid" questions about it once they start to learn that they can actually accomplish something meaningful and fun with the device.

Too bad you can't impliment a checklist, required to post depending on number of posts.. once you hit X meaningful posts, you can actually start talking more freely without requiring the checklist...

Hopefully this was of some help, if not at least I purposely stole oxygen back from an O2 thief...