yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Thanks!

But the tester did not use any DAC digital gain optimizations which would produce different results at low outputs.

Also, a problem with many (most) cell phone's on board DAC (including LG 32 bit) is the poor crosstalk from grounding issues.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] sand_bit:
On the "Hi-Fi" type c dac/amp space, we now have the:

Nextdrive Spectra Type C (ESS 9018 dac/amp, check amazon for $149), they disappointingly decided to raise prices from $99 to $149 which makes it an instant no.

Musiland MU1 (cirrus 42l42 dac/amp, check penonaudio for $35), quite well reviewed

Musiland MU2 Plus (cirrus 43130 dac/amp, MU2 has been discontinued, check taobao NON AFFILIATE LINK for $86 on Nov 11)

Measurements of the MU2 can be found at here behind a login wall, apparently measures quite well​

Nanjiangyuan Gen 3 (Realtek ALC4040, check taobao NON AFFLIATE LINK for $15)

Edit: the MU2 normal edition (non-plus) is apparently still selling, and Musiland Customer service claims on their forums that there is no fundamental difference between the plus and non-plus editions, with the plus edition available to resellers due to "psychological demand" and to raise the selling price.

Some might be worth checking out, as they should be theoretically capable (barring some design mistakes or high output impedance) of outputting transparent sound.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] Galactus:
Any plans to test Apple's USB C to 3.5mm dongle?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Thanks, great idea.

On order for next week and some testing.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] JNavas2:
With respect, color me skeptical.

That would not pass THX certification, and the Razer adapter is THX certified.

Testing results can be sensitive to testing configuration and equipment,

and something in your setup might be affecting your results,

especially given your distortion results on other devices.

I've not run rigorous tests,

but my subjective impression of the Razer adapter is quite positive.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Sure, you are certainly free to believe what you want.

I triple checked everything and compared to the Dragonfly red and Google DAC at the same time, same equipment.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] zed011:
Oh dear. Thx certified means nothing , it's a marketing term. My Logitech speakers are thx certified does that mean it's good? No, my bookshelf speakers blow it away. No one serious in audio believes in THX certification, again it's a marketing label thrown out to nonchalant consumers
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] Galactus:
Your a legend
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] syunz:
Will you be looking into the new apple usb-c to 3.5mm that launched with the new ipad pro? It's only $9 and it's looking like a good value comparatively to the others if it performs well.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Absolutely, should be able to do next week.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] JNavas2:
So you're accusing THX of fraud? That's pretty serious. Got anything to back that up?

“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” —Carl Sagan

FYI, THX isn't a guarantee of excellence -- it's a quality assurance system.

As such, it's directly relevant to the issue of distortion in USB-C to 3.5 mm adapters.

(Also FYI, speaker certification is separated into classes.)

Yes, but as I said, results can be sensitive to the testing environment and methodology, and the fact that you're finding distortion is all non-Dragonfly products suggests that there might be an issue in your results. Do you have any confirmation?

Or explanation of how the Razer adapter could pass THX certification?

Otherwise we just have your unconfirmed data. And I'm not hearing distortion.

"I believe in observation, measurement, and reasoning, confirmed by independent observers." —Isaac Asimov
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] zed011:
Ever wonder why the top audio brands don't give a hoot about THX? They don't list their test methodologies on their site and use catch phrases on their site. THX means absolutely nothing to me and any serious about audio. It's more like a logo you out on things and hope it sells better because uninformed consumers think it's better. You got any proof to back up that THX makes any difference? You don't have to throw quotes around to sound wise...

Razor owns thx that's why they can slap anything thx on it until some technical people review the device and find out it's probably not better than any decent dac
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
No.

If you look at the test results for the Dragonfly, you will see they are not much different than the Google DAC, HTC, and some of the other dongles in regards to distortion. The only real major plus for the DFR is the super low output impedance, and better than average crosstalk. So despite owning the DFR, I actually use the HTC dongle on my Senn 800s, the old Google DAC on my se846, as well as the new RHA CL2. I also have the AKG N5005 using the apt X bluetooth adapter, Oriolus Mk2 on the Google Dac.

As far as listening tests, that's another can of worms - if you want that approach check out Head-fi.

I also do not claim that any of the distortion banding is audible.

Many folks just like to know.

More important to me in the testing is the output impedance and crosstalk (under load) which is generally ignored elsewhere.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] JNavas2:
So no confirmation, just more accusations.

So no confirmation, but we agree that Razer distortion is not audible.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] zed011:
You never provided proof either and also you're the one who started defending THX like you work there

Anyway THD is hardly audible on any gear that is not complete crap and it's also not considered as one of the most important aspects of sound reproduction that makes a notable audible difference. It also matters at what frequency it's measured at. Flat frequency response, dynamic range and output impedance matter more. None of us unless we work in the field and can afford thousands of dollars of equipment will be able to analyze audio seriously. I suggest reading this very detailed and informative blog for anyone who is serious about audio as it's one of the best sites I have ever seen about audio particularly about dacs and headphone amps with measurements

to back up his work. httpguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/rightmark-audio-analyzer-rmaa.html?m=0
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
One of the best sources of testing and quality assessment info is the Nwavguy. His blog is a few years old, but still spot on.

In addition, some people with good hearing, experience and sensitive Iem's, may be able to notice the background noise floor and harmonic distortion. The problem I pointed out originally is distortion banding even at very low gain, so the music is competing with the distortion.

I personally don't see the logic of buying a dongle that has inferior properties for a higher price.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] JNavas2:
As lawyers say, "Assumes facts not in evidence", as in lack of confirmation of "inferior".

I personally don't see the logic of buying a dongle at a much higher price that doesn't deliver an audible difference (e.g., Dragonfly).

When I purchased my Razer dongle, the Google dongle was priced at $20, with poor latency, which matters much more to me than claimed but inaudible sound differences, and the Razer was essentially the same price. (Google now has an improved version at a lower price.)

"Different strokes for different folks." ;)
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
OK guys, here is a serious competitor for you: VE Odyssey. Only can get it from China.

https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=32

$10 + $4 shipping. I got mine in about two weeks. See the HeadFi discussion of it here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ve-odyssey-discussions-and-impressions-thread.886989/

I have been using it like I used the Google one, with Neutron USB driver. But where the Google one is often flat and lifeless into my HiFiMan RE600s, the Odyssey has plenty of punch. It's not quite as expansive an experience as Astell & Kern BT, but is very, very good to my ears. Especially for only $14! I can't remember how many of these things I have bought, but this is the only one (besides A&K BT) that I am keeping.

Happy listening!
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Apple USB-C DAC measurements

Note- the 3Khz banding is an artifact present even with silence/Dac off

Max output stock: 80 mV (!!!)

Max output rooted with appropriate gain adjustments is 1 Volt

Crosstalk unloaded 75 dB

Crosstalk loaded 40 dB

Output impedance .2 Ohms (excellent)

Distortion at 50 mV loaded with Shure se846:

Compared to Google Dac (loaded same as above, same sitting):

Compare to Dragonfly red (same load, same sitting):

Will start working on getting some more voltage out of this nice little guy if possible (with tinymix and root).

More comments to follow......

Max voltage on a Win10 laptop = .5 V

Difference in distortion banding using the Apple Dac vs the Google Dac on the Pixel 2 XL (Nov patch) vs a Sony Xperia (Oreo, Sept patch). All tests are with an se846 as the load, all done at the same sitting, voltage out.

Pixel with Google Dac:

Sony (Oreo) with Google Dac:

Pixel with Apple Dac:

Sony with Apple Dac:

Additional comments:

The Apple Dac is capable of .5 V on a PC, but not on stock Android devices (Pixel, Sony).

The Nov patch for Pie has "fixed" the stock gain issues in both line out and headphone mode

As seen in the Sony (android 8.0) tests with the Google Dac, the noise/distortion was there - an Oreo problem that used to plague the Pixel as well.

But, the Sony did not show any distortion increase (compared to the Pixel) using the Apple Dac. So although the driver does not take advantage of full voltage, the gain control appears to be optimized in the Dac itself (?).

Edit as of 11/18 the Apple Dac can put out 1 Volt, it just needs the correct gain settings (exactly like the Dragonfly).

The Apple unit is about half the size of the Google (original) DAC.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] holtmann:
So with max 80mV output the extremely low maximum volume is no surprise:). I assume output levels when connected to an iPad will be around 1V (typical for most apple devices and also the lighting->3.5mm adapter)

Any idea why the USB AudioPlayers are not working with this dongle - just a driver issue?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
A little more on this: I tried it today in the car line in to amp, and don't like it nearly as much as my Pixel 2 device. Am guessing that it's same output regardless of what is connected. Still, for 16 ohm IEM sounds way, way better than Pixel device though.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] danzel:
Razer phone 2 comes out with new audio adapter and initial impression from gsmarena says that it was "loud and has a perfectly accurate output".
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] jasenko:
Hi guys, just to chip in with my observations... I got mine (Apple dongle) today and did a few tests. As everyone pointed out, the audio coming straight out of android is low volume but very clean. Tested using USB Audio Player Pro and the sound was amazing. Plenty of volume and very, very balanced sound. Now that UAPP supports GPM, I am sorted...

To my ears sounds exactly the same as the Apple original dongle on the iPhone.

I also tested it on the Pixelbook in Spotify. It is able to produce so much volume, the ears can start bleeding. Again, sounds is much nicer that Pixel dongle. No noticeable distortion. I think my Dragonfly Black will now end up retired in the drawer for good.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] brojarbor:
[MENTION=5058444]jasenko[/MENTION]

Speaking of "I got mine", which one specifically are you referring to?

I just wish to make sure as your comparison with Audioquest Black makes it even more attractive.

Wysłane z mojego HTC U Ultra przy użyciu Tapatalka
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Apt X HD comparison (new Shure BT2) with wired Google DAC:

Testing setup Pixel 2XL and EARS with the Shure se846 iem

Freq response identical:

Noise and distortion very similar (this would be different than a pure scope tracing of audio jack properties):

Shure BT2:

Google DAC:

Bottom line:

The new Shure aptx HD unit has transparent audio output compared to wired (at least according to the test platform used here). Whether some individuals can hear the difference is a different issue. I could not.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] jasenko:
Last 10 posts were all about Apple dongle, so I assumed it would be clear... :)
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] Headcase0:
So what's the general consensus for a relatively inexpensive (sub $25) adapter now? I have a Pixel 2 on Pie, so I was planning on just springing for Google's; however, this thread has dissuaded me from that. Also, are there any decent 2 to 1 adapters that allow you to listen to audio through a 3.5mm port and charge the phone as well?

Thanks,

Headcase0
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
I haven't tested any two in one dongles yet.

As far as conventional, it depends on your needs.

So if you have a multi armature iem with low impedance, stay away from the HTC, new Google or other high output impedance units.

But if you have full size cans that need power (and impedance doesn't matter), the HTC is fine, or the original Google DAC, maybe the new Google DAC.

The apple DAC is possibly the best for the price but in Android, only has very little output voltage. So it's fine for sensitive Iem's.

The Pdac is quite good overall but bulky, not best in a home receiver setup.

Look through the thread with these considerations in mind.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] Headcase0:
It seems like the P-Dac would work best for me; however, they don't seem to be in stock anymore. Any recommendations on where to find them?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Yeah, it's gone.

I noticed that HTC may have come out with a new adapter.

The specs are different than what I originally tested (goes up to 96k SR now, not that it matters sonically).

I placed an order and will test it next week. The original one was built well, good specs except for the impedance. There are numerous adapters out there built around realtec chips that are probably good as well, but it's hard to say how good the overall build quality is.

Too bad about the Apple, it is otherwise perfect (if you only need low power).
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
I finally got the Apple Dac to put out 1 volt.

The strange thing is the Pixel is now describing the mixer parameters differently than before (the control was called "Headset playback volume" and is now called "PCM playback volume"). Nothing was changed in the OS, still the same Nov patch. Very weird!

Anyway, if people are interested, my app can adjust the Dac gain just fine now. The current version is out of date (still fine for the Google Dac) and I will need to make some changes.

Bottom line: The Apple Dac is my top pick at this point (if you are rooted or don't need high output).
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] lorikeet:
I bought the Apple dongle out of curiosity. It produces sufficient volume for IEMs on my Asus Zenfone 3. Any volume control or mic on the earphones are not recognized. The cord connecting the USB C connector and the 3.5mm jack seems weak. I don't expect it to last long. :(
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] brojarbor:
Guys,

Admittedly, I have not gone through all posts contained within this thread, but has anyone put to test Sonata HD Cable II by Hidizs?

This one:

/as a new user my links cannot be inserted here, google it/

On Head-Fi it has gained much appreciation, and some users claim that it is way better than HTC, Apple, Google dongles.

Pricing is on a steep side - $40, currently selling at a discounted price of $30.

Looks pretty promising, esp. when paired with cans in need of more power to get adequately steered and driven. Anyone, anything ?

Wysłane z mojego HTC U Ultra przy użyciu Tapatalka
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] nort ycagel:
how did you do it?

I'm considering picking a Pixel 3 but the measurements on GSMArena have been pretty disastrous.

On the other hand apple type C donge would be a good solution (I used it on the iphone 8 and the sound quality was extremely good, makes you consider all the hifi crazy prices)
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
You need root and my Gain control app (to be updated). It should work on the P3. However try the Apple Dac just stock, it may be loud enough for your purposes. - Depends on what headset you are using. For 9 bucks you can't go wrong.

The poor measurements are from the new Google Dac, the old one is better.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] Freak07:
Thank you for your constant efforts and your work!
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] nort ycagel:
got any way to test the Sony dongle with the xz3?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Thanks.

The updated Gain control app is now up.

It supports the Apple DAC (full 1 volt out) and should work on most Pie level devices since the app now uses a mod to boost the volume rocker steps to 50 (1 dB increments).
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] g0at1:
[MENTION=281070]bjrmd[/MENTION]

Were you able to test the dongle that comes with the pixel 3? Is it the same as the new one you tested recently?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
It's the same. I just the P3XL yesterday, rooted and looked at the Usb mixer id settings. The dongle in the box is the same as the one I tested 10/7. So not as good as the original one from the P2. Audio in the P3 is exactly the same as the P2. Software is the same, so it's pretty much dongle dependent.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] uosunsetter:
[MENTION=281070]bjrmd[/MENTION] Firstly, thanks a lot for your efforts!

What is the correct gain settings in mixer_paths.xml for Apple Dac that provides 1 V output? What values should I be playing with? Can you provide an example of the file?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
I wish it were that simple. Mixerpath changes were for the headset jack enabled old Pixels (and most phones with the headset jack). You would need to send a tinymix command (root required) on every insertion of the dongle (which is what my app does). If you need the command, let me know.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] uosunsetter:
Your answer explains why my hours of googling "mixer_path.xml" got me nowhere so far :D

Yes, I really would like to know the command.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
tinymix -D 1 "PCM Playback Volume" 120

If you want lower volume than max, just use 1 to 119 instead of 120.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] nort ycagel:
does your app work for previous versions of android aswell? I'm on 8.0.0
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
It should
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] Vortell:
Anybody try a dac with newer realtek alc4042 chip set? Suppose to be 384khz/32 bit.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Comparison of several devices using a stepped sine test. My concern was that perhaps we are missing poor DAC quality when driving full size cans with high impedance to loud volumes. The testing chain was a win 10 laptop, the various USB DACs, the Senn HD650 headphone attached to a Y cable from the ADC of the Asus Xonar X7, voltage was 750 mV.

Best device I have, Chord Mojo:

Let's compare to the new Google DAC:

You can see that below 1 Khz, the noise/distortion becomes progressively worse. My hunch is that the dongle just can't put out enough energy to drive the speaker elements at the lower frequencies.

The old Google DAC:

Still not very good below 1 Khz.

The HTC dongle:

Same...

The Audiolab PDAC:

Making some progress. Less distortion.

Dragonfly Red (on a PC):

Definitely a disappointment at least in this particular test. Unexpected since it is capable of 2 volts out so 750 mV is not strain. Perhaps showing it's age?

Apple USB C:

Pretty amazing!

Totally unexpected and a testament to their audio engineering skills.

Remember this has an output voltage of 1V (but not on stock android), impedance below 1 ohm and good crosstalk and is smaller than all the above.

Why Google hardware division can't match this is the question.

Bottom line, to drive full size cans loudly, of the tested devices, only the Apple DAC rivals that of a dedicated DAC/amp.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] mrkmrk:
awesome measurements!! is this to say that if I'm driving a sensitive IEM—in my case, 20Ω nominal impedance, 122dB/mW sensitivity—there's really no sense in using anything but the Apple DAC? (I mean. It's $9 shipped, which really doesn't hurt its case.)

And if that's the case, one more thing I'm curious about—how does it handle MQA (96kHz-24bit), if at all? Does it play that properly, or does it do some kind of resampling down? If that latter, is there anything at any reasonable price/size that would play such files correctly?

Thanks for all of your work!
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
With that sensitivity, you should be fine with the Apple DAC (80 mV is more than enough from the stock driver).

As far as MQA, I think that is a software decoding issue (I know the Dragonfly has the software). None of the dongles I have seen do that. There may be software (Tidal?) to do so.

Here is another review of the Apple unit that also was very impressed.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] tengtengvn:
Like this one? https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07K1TLP5C/ref=sspa_mw_detail_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm using it with my OP 6T and it sounds good with the KZ AS10. PowerAmp sees it as 24 bit DAC.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] Vortell:
24 bit and 96khz? Cause that's what mine shows as. Oh well after I complained they have it to me for $2
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] tengtengvn:
It's not audible if I set it higher than 96 kHz but it sounds pretty good. It could be the problem with PowerAmp but I don't want to pay for UPP to try. I like the new PA interface.

I got the adapter for $1.50 so I have nothing to complain. lol

View attachment 4697365View attachment 4697366
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Although it looks like the real thing, it could be a copy. There is a substantial difference between the original dongle and the revised newer one.

The original is better in many respects, but both should put out 1 volt, giving decent volume.

But despite the calculated SPL being adequate, the dongles do have issues at near peak loads

I will say that for full size headphones, you will get better results with a good non dongle choice.

I just got a Radsone Earstudio and will post results this weekend.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] mrkmrk:
Ha, awesome! I just bought one of those too, and I bought a balanced cable because why not @_@. Looking forward to seeing your results!!
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] komw:
I also today bought earstudio es100. I've read many positive reviews and I decided to buy it. It was exactly what I looked for. The sound is pretty awesome, also power is enough to drive all my headphones.

Who wants my Venture Electronics Odyssey [MENTION=293102]ND[/MENTION] Google dongle? ;)