yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] giodelgado:
I just tried Google Play Music and it's funny that it doesn't have any issues when enabling the equalizer, no delay, nothing. Music sounds louder. So at first, I was set it was an Android issue since I've seen a lot of posts about this since Spotify was released for Android. Now I'm thinking it's Spotify or Google forces the equalizer to run in the background to process music faster??? ???
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] stumpy352:
Just curious, did anyone else receive a complimentary pair of earbuds with their phone. I'm in Australia, and pre-ordered through Telstra. When my phone arrived in the mail, there were 3 boxes in the package. The phone, my Google home mini and a pair of aiaiai pipe wired earbuds. Fairly good quality too, to my ears anyway. Not as loud as my jaybird wireless earbuds, but crisp and plenty of base.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] jasenko:
I have my trusty pair of Shure 425s so didn't even bother opening the box... until this morning... They are nicely built and have a decent sound but nowhere near $70 AUD they ask for. They sound more like your standard $30-40 buds. Not sure why so many people complain about them over at Whirlpool forums, we got them for free and they are much better than Apple supplied ones.

Anyway, looking forward to see the tests with HTC dongle. I may buy one if they work well out of the box. Dragonfly Black are pain to carry around and I am also worried that they may damage the USB-C port due to their weight pulling down on the usb adapter.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] stumpy352:
I can tell you from experience that the htc dongle sounded amazing on my LG G6 (non quad dac version). Haven't tried it with my pixel yet. My wife has the htc u11 & the USB c headphones that it came with are awesome. Again, haven't tried to see if they work with the pixel, but they didn't work with the LG. The u11 even tunes them to your ear canals.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
I have the HTC dongle but it is not recognized as a USB audio device on the Pixel. Also tried it in a win 10 machine and no luck.

Could anyone see if their HTC dongle works in the Pixel.

Thanks
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] malybru:
Just used my wife's HTC U11 dongle on my XL2 rooted phone

Works great.

:)
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Thanks, perhaps I have a bad one.

Did it get the firmware update?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] malybru:
I flashed the November update.

It sounds pretty good playing Spotify.

As good as the Google one.

:)
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Sorry, I meant did the HTC dongle get an update--they pushed something out a few mos ago but I could not get it to install off the Pixel.

Glad it sounds good--I would have liked to test the specs out (even from windows). I may try some alternate windows drivers later.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] jasenko:
I know we all *****ed about not having headphone jack on the new phones, but I see more and more value in "not" having one. I almost bought LG V30 for the sound quality, but ended up buying Pixel and Dragonfly Black. I think I got a much better deal that way. Having external DAC provides me with additional customisation option, once I find a DAC/headphone combo that I like, I can pick whatever phone in the future and still enjoy the music the same way (providing a standard android audio driver that I am sure will be tuned over time).

This also gives manufacturers the option to tune the headphones and experiences to stay the same across the devices.

It's only the beginning, but it is the future.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] giodelgado:
I'm sure external DACs and USB-C headphones are better tech, the problem is Android and Oreo is worse with audio latency... https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/79npik/android_audio_latency_problem_just_got_worse/

For comparison my desktop has audio latency of 0.18ms, iOS has 10-12, my Pixel 2 40ms ???
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] skylog:
any chance the Razer adapter is one to look to? given the settings on the Pixel 2 would it even make a difference? i can not post the link, as i am new.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
It looks intriguing.

The description says it's a usb Dac.

Do your have one?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] stumpy352:
Interesting. Just had a look on the razerzone website. They have usb-c earbuds also, that have their own integrated dac. Compatibility says limited for pixel (music only, no calls). No mention of pixel 2.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] giodelgado:
USB-C MMCX cables with DAC now in production

https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-med...it,w_695/v1509859200/om2zf6au4rimgttptqwt.jpg

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/capri-audiophile-digital-earphone-with-hi-res-dac--2#/
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] stumpy352:
Just plugged my wife's u11 u-sonic usb-c earphones into my pixel 2 xl. I get a notification that an analog device has been connected & that it's not compatible. Is this the case? Are htc managing an analog connection through USB?

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 PM ----------

The htc dongle definitely sounds better than the Google dongle. To my ears anyway. No distortion at high volume. Clearer more separated sounds. Punchier, yet more defined bass. I'll be packing this one in my kit instead of the Google one, for the rare occasion I might run out of battery with my Jaybirds.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] giodelgado:
Any way to purchase the HTC dongle online?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] stumpy352:
https://www.htc.com/us/accessories-b/#!pid=htc-u11
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] jawmail:
They show 2, I ordered the one with the HTC logo.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] jasenko:
I think we are getting to the point where we need a little wiki page to list all adapters and if they wor/don't work.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] stumpy352:
The one with the htc logo isn't the one that comes with the u11. It's the little round one. I'm not sure what the difference is though.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] skylog:
i found a quick little comment on a review of the razer phone online which said this, "The good news is that Razer includes a USB-C to 3.5mm adapter in the box. Oh, and it has a 24-bit THX certified DAC inside it. Oh yes."

now, i am not certain if that is the same one that you can order on the site, but i have ordered one. i should say i paid way too much for one, as the shipping was also 10.00, but happy black friday to me (i hope.)

when it arrives i will check back in.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] giodelgado:
Oh wow, please let us know!
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] LeoRex:
I do believe that the U11's dongle had two versions. The early units came with dongles that were proprietary. And they were later replaced with units that supported the USB digital audio spec. Keep in mind that the spec was published in September of 2016... So it was probably just too early for the spring 2017 phones to come with supported bits.

Then later on when they were ready, they just switched them out with the updated adapters.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] tessut:
Anybody Else has Problems coonecting the original Adapter with the pixel ? Or anything solution to that ?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
There should be no issue with the Pixel 2 group- you may have a bad adapter.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] tessut:
Got pretty warm is that normal ?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Unless you are at max power out and playing music, definitely not. Could be a short. If it in inserted with no music playing, it should be powered down.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] tessut:
Yeah Max Power for 1 hour Then IT suddenly stopped working
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Wonder if you just got thermal damage from running at max.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] tessut:
Probably...its a shame somehow will buy the nexum Aqua should Work with the Pixel 2 XL i Hope will leave my thoughts over Here ;)
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] jawmail1:
Got my HTC dongle and it works fine so life is good.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
Awesome thread! Has anyone compared Pixel 2 audio (or any other phone using aptX HD) with Astell & Kern AK XB10 vs the dongle solution? AptX HD still has the compression issue, but I've seen some rave reviews about the A&K. Any thoughts?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
As we have discussed in some other threads, the net sound output is heavily dependent on the Dac/Amp (as well as the bluetooth transcoding).

You would ideally like to know output impedance, crosstalk and the like. For example, the LGV30 with the fancy quad Dac seems to have very poor crosstalk (not sure about impedance). As time goes on and more dongle Dacs are available (including mmcx cables) we should be in even better shape. Someday we could get to the point of a dragonfly like device in that form factor.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
I was poking around on the HTC order page and noticed the links for the two items: Top one says U11 and bottom says Ultra:

https://www.htc.com/us/accessories-b/#!pid=htc-u11&acc=usb-c-digital-to-3-5mm-htc-u11

https://www.htc.com/us/accessories-b/#!pid=htc-u11&acc=usb-c-digital-to-3-5mm-htc-u-ultra

Same or different inside, who knows??? :confused:
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Test of HTC Usb dongle

Max output 810 mV

Impedance about 5 Ohms (volt drop with se846)

Crosstalk loaded and unloaded 53 and 77 dB

Distortion at default Dac gain (it is set for 14 of 14 so at max, just like google dongle)

Distortion with reduction in Dac digital gain, but max android vol to have same net out voltage

Conclusions

The default Dac gain is set to max like the google dongle, this leads to unwanted distortion banding. Reducing this and compensating with higher android gain eliminates the distortion (unless of course you are interested in max output)

The crosstalk is reasonable even with a difficult iem like the shure se846.

The max volt out is standard, close to 1 V.

The output impedance is relatively high, a problem if you have very low impedance multi driver iems (like the se 846).

Given the above and the price, the Google dongle is the clear winner!
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
My reply from Moshi

Since this seems to be the most active thread on HQ audio, I thought some might be interested/amused in an email I got back from Moshi. I asked them if they could give some details on the DAC/amp in the charge/headphone adaptor they have on Google's website.

Thank you for your email.

We reached out to our product team regarding this. While they are unable to provide us with the brand and model of DAC, they informed us with the following information:

"DAC Spec: Supports 24bit /192kHz

Amp: Class G, works with 16/32 ohm headphones without a problem"

They also wanted to add that 'there is no support for high power output since this might drain too much power from some mobile phones'.

Hope this information helps.

I guess I am not surprised. :rolleyes:
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] jasenko:
Dammit... I was hoping for a cheap solution as we can't rely on Google fixing the driver. It's getting more and more painful to use Dragonfly, i am seriously worried that the weight would do damage to the USB-C port.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
Are two Pixels different?

Comparing the two Pixels here makes me wonder whether the levels thing might be an XL-only issue. :confused: Or maybe it is just QC issues between the two dongles.

https://www.gsmarena.com/google_pixel_2-review-1680p7.php

Also of note, they say the XL is louder.

#2 For those who have not seen it, there is a post on the Google board about this issue.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] tessut:
How do U do those mesurements by urself i want to mesure the NEXUM AQUA for U its such a good DAC i fell n Love with it

I dont even need viper4arise or Dolby anymore on my Device ;)
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
I too don't like stressing the only port the phone has and never use the Dragonfly on the go.

It's possible we'll find a Dac dongle that doesn't default to max digital gain, but I have not seen any yet.

Unfortunately maximizing audio quality is probably not high on the to-do list.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
It's possible the dongle tested was different, or faulty.

The sound quality should not be affected by the phone, if the software parameters are the same.

The crosstalk was way different which is an electrically dependant measurement not controlled by software.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] foosion:
Please consider adding battery drain to the things you test. On my Pixel 2, the Google dongle drains at approximately 5%/hour playing music (from files on the phone). I'm curious whether other devices use much more or much less power.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
That is a great idea, and very easy to do. I may also add a display of battery draw to my gain app as an option.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] skylog:
i received the Razer dongle today. i have not had much chance to get into it today, but in a quick "let's just see" moment, i "think" it may sound better than the Google offering. there is some minimal documentation, but really not too much. the one notable headline may be, "Only use the USB-C Audio Adapter with the Razer Phone and its accessories included in the package, and/or purchase (or use) accessories made and/or approved by the manufacturer."

so, is there anything to be worried about? further, is there anything anyone wants to see or know about it? that said, i may not be able to provide some of the technical data shown here.

it is a black braided cable, 6 inches in length, with the DAC about 1 inch long, and does not have too much weight to it. the USB-C connector casing is a little shorter than the Google cable, and there is a THX certification note on the back side of the little plastic 'thing" manufacturers place on cables that has some basic info about the cable.

i can get pictures of everything, but i hope this helps for now.

let me know.

thanks
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
Thanks, keep us posted. I was looking at this today. It looks much nicer and better quality than the Google one. Plus black will go better with my black phone than the Google white one. :cool: I'll look forward to more comments on sound quality, volume, etc. if you have any.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
I have ordered a Razor cable myself and will do the usual measurements once it comes in.

Note that the volume out may or may not be able to hit maximum possible values with stock Android settings (like the Dragonfly red).
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
I will be interested in how the Razer works. I was thinking of trying one, but hesitated after seeing the GSMARENA review. Not that I put much faith in their testing abilities, but...

Yesterday I got my Pixel 2 and spent a little while comparing it to iPhone 6 this afternoon. Compared the same songs on Tidal HQ with RE400s. Dongle is not awful, but it is really not even close to iphone out of the box. When I get settled, I will try the output fix.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] reshas:
Will this work with Google Play Music, or only with locally stored files? If it does, is it sufficient to just install the "Neutron Music Player" app on Google Play and change some setting? Any specific details are appreciated (pardon my lack of knowledge here). I don't want to root my Pixel 2, hence looking at alternatives.

Thanks!
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
No, that won't work. The neutron driver will only work on neutron.

I have read that some people are able to get usb audio player pro to use it's own driver with other apps.

But that is not supposed to be how it is designed and if you could get it working, it may not last past the next Android update.

Once again, if you want to get the cleanest signal, without root, the Dragonfly is the way to go (but max voltage out is limited).
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] jasenko:
I would like to know how to do this. Any ideas where to look for more info?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
I think that you start playing music with usbapp, using their driver, pause, go to your home screen, then 'end' the app by clicking x in the recently list.

The driver apparently sticks temporarily.

There may be a work around using Neutron that I am working on.

May have something to report later.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
Question about Neutron if anyone knows...

I have not yet used Neutron on my Pixel, but it keeps asking me if I want Neutron to be default USB software when I plug in adapter to port. Question: Might Neutron's USB out system affect any of the Google Dongle issues?

p.s. I am still remembering how Neutron works, but by disabling generic driver it does seem to give a lot better quality than anything I have tried so far (Neutron with default settings/Spotify/Tidal). Also of note, there is a setting in Neutron to use slider to control hardware (DAC) level.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
Review of Realtec Usb Dac

Impedance .3 Ohm

Max voltage out is 535mV

Crosstalk loaded 47dB

I think this is a derivative of the Google dongle, the mixer settings are identical (except the name of course) which is too rare a coincidence. It does support both 16 and 24 bit playback and has less output voltage.

Distortion at max:

Distortion with stock android driver(better than the Google dongle):

Distortion less with proper digital gain at same voltage:

Crosstalk:

Summary:

Seems like a variant of the Google dongle with similar mixer settings and gain range (0-175)

About same impedance as Google dongle which is excellent.

Much less output voltage than Google's unit but less distortion at stock settings. Possible compromise for stock non rooted phone. Fine for sensitive IEM.

Decent crosstalk.

Price double that of the Google Dac.

My preference would be to use the Google dongle with gain control app, or Neutron custom drivers.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
On a Pixel 2 thread, a guy took the Google dongle apart ... it's realtec. :) Pictures are on the following page. also.

https://xdaforums.com/pixel-2/help/usb-c-port-headphone-audio-quality-t3688777/page4

Nice work on the Neutron driver setup! I was thinking something like this might be possible after hearing how different Neutron sounded when it bypasses Android system. I actually emailed with the UAPP guys today, trying to figure out if it could serve in same role as Neutron. But so far, I get a error message saying there is no USB device with it. That would be a cool mod for UAPP if it could be accomplished -- would be an easy way to get Tidal. (My plan is to do the root mod shortly, unless something magic falls from the sky.)

On a note of optimism, I saw a Google job ad from November -- They are looking for Android audio stack engineers. :)
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] jasenko:
8.1 is out. Hoping audio driver issue is fixed. Yet to receive OTA to check.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
I just spent the last hour listening to Spotify and Tidal using the Neutron USB driver (and the sound is very nice.) Someone try this and see if it works for you.

1. Neutron has this annoying pop-up every time you plug in the headphone adapter -- Do you want to start Neutron when this device is plugged in ( or something like that. ) Say yes. (It will open every time you plug cable in.)

2. There is a Neutron setting to run in background. Make sure this is checked.

3. Make use the Use generic driver setting is NOT checked.

There may be some more settings I overlooked, but I think that is it.

Now anything I play with Tidal or Spotify uses the Neutron driver

I will be interested to see if others can do this! Part of me thinks that I'm dreaming and this is not real.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] jasenko:
I wish I can try. My trial expired and I won't pay unless it works for certain. Already invested in UAPP.

Edit: I was able to play with the Neutron EVAL version. Funny app, if you go to settings and stay there it won't time out on you. I was able to disable generic driver and change a couple of settings, sound coming out of the dongle is much improved. Still sounds a bit "muddy" comparing to Dragonfly, but respectable. Which settings you used? Direct access to USB device as expected did not work in other apps so I disabled that feature.

Edit 2: Bought the app. Tried a few settings but could not make it sound similar to "bit perfect" in UAPP. Still good enough for general use in other apps. Dongle is very capable, and for the price is probably the best thing out there.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
If anyone interested, I made a brief tutorial about how to use Neutron to play Gmusic through it's custom Usb driver.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
Has anyone noticed flat dynamic range with the Google dongle? With Neutron driver it is super clean, but there is not as much punch in loud passages as I would expect. It's like some kind of volume normalization is being done, but I checked every place I can think of (Neutron/Spotify/Tidal) and can't find anything. There should be plenty of power, so I would not think that that is it. Last few days is the first time I have used Neutron in several years, so there may be something I am overlooking.

Any thoughts, suggestions?
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] bjrmd:
From my first post:

There appears to be 3 (at least) "modes" that the Google dongle will do. Depending on the impedance of the headset/line out device attached, the output voltage varies quite a bit.

Low impedance - .36 Volt (high efficiency iem's)

High impedance - .9 Volt (full size headphones)

Very high impedance- 1.8 Volt (line out)

So Neutron driver may not be behaving this way. I never tested the voltage with that setup.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
Thanks. I have only tried Neutron approaches with 32 ohm HiFIMan RE400 so far. Loudness is pretty comparable to iPhone, which is close to 1 V I believe.
[Google Pixel 2 XL Guides, News, & Discussion] BaronInkjet:
[MENTION=281070]bjrmd[/MENTION],

Do you have any idea what the resistance cutoffs might be? I went out and plugged it into my aux jack in car, and was completely different story. Very powerful. That and more critical listening with HiFiMans lead me to believe that 32 ohm falls in the "low" category. The volume does not increase measurably as I turn it up. (Though it is clean. :rolleyes:)

0.36 is not enough, not unless you are a grandmother! Though it is pretty typical for most Android devices. Sounds like something Samsung would do to meet EU requirements (visions or Exynos past...).

If this is right, my opinion of the dongle drops from close to A to at most C. Bummer. :(