yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] cb474:
Looking at it, it actually says, " We'll be releasing our kernel and factory images in the next few days." So, it says, "the next few days." And yet that was eleven days ago.

Another example of playing fast and loose with what I think anybody's idea of "few days" would be. Hopefully it will come soon. My point is only that people should not place much faith in Essential's statements about timing. They have only made promises and failed to keep them, just about without exception. It is not a good track record and part of why after my initial hopes and excitement about Essential, I now view them as an "essentially" dishonest company whose intentions are much less honorable than they claim.

This would all be more or less par for the course, for a big corporation spouting empty PR. But Andy Rubin, when he first introduced the phone, did this whole song and dance about how they were going to be a different sort of consumer friendly company. I no longer believe that at all. I no longer even believe that Rubin believed it when he said it. I think it was PR and nothing more.

---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------

Yes, I remember this. I was thinking when I first read that: Why don't they just open source the proprietary parts and problem solved? Rubin claimed this company is all about open source. That's part of his legacy with Android. He made a big point about how they are even open sourcing the hardware for module development. In fact, since they claimed the phone runs entirely stock Android I was suprised there even are proprietary parts. So to me rather than being an explanation, that was another example of the discrepancy between Essential's claims about what kind of company it is and the reality of the sort of company it really is.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] tech_head:
Not good.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] gqukyo:
Gotta have that special sauce... lol
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] flakko86:
Lol well to look at it in a more positive light, I think the issue is he has a tendency to over promise and leave use twiddling our thumbs. Considering they are a relatively new company and are severely understaffed, the overpromising can be forgiven. However, when missing the said dates, there is barely any follow-up as to why the dates were missed leading to major concern for the customers. I think saying anything is better than silence. Like at least tell us that such and such update promised on such and such date has been moved.

On the plus side, during the AMA, VZW cert was promised and it was certified on the date promised. The recent security patch was released with bug fixes within a day of the Pixel. They have definitely improved thier presence on reddit which I think is a huge plus. They also have said on Twitter a couple hours ago that they are currently working on a Dev page for their website.

https://twitter.com/essential/status/912424863951810560

So calling them dishonest or not honorable or saying they aren't customer friendly I think is a bit of a stretch. I think they are still super swamped after getting knocked down from the initial release and are trying their darndest to get back on their feet so they can stay in the fight. Yes, I am giving them the benefit of a doubt but I think once Essential gets over this initial launch hurdle, promised timings will be a little more "on time" than they currently are.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] flakko86:
I remember reading somewhere that someone messaged customer service and the rep said they would try to release the patches within two weeks of google's release.

I agree with you about the camera and how they are handling it. I think the AMA question should have been worded a bit more differently like "You claim to have one if the best cameras in the world but you are using a 2 year old sensor that is known to have problems with capturing images in low light. Other competitors at this price range such as the Google Pixel and the Samsung Galaxy S8 have far superior sensors. Can you really optimize the software that much to compete with them?". Something like that. Anyways, I forgot which reviewer stated it but there's a lot of hubris coming out of this company and I think that's what's causing them to have that "do no wrong" attitude, and Im not a big fan of it.

As for them being a small company, while the downside is not being able to handle handle thousands of orders and customers efficiently especially with a rushed buggy product (of course they will never admit that cuz hubris), im finding more recently that they are starting to frequent Reddit more often and I was assured when I sent the big bug report out, which was responded to in less than a day, that the company monitors the essential subreddit religiously and the software team is and will be referencing that thread. They aren't wrong in their statement about them being a smaller company. They just gotta shoot the issues and suggestions straight to the top making decisions a lot more efficient than a larger company. All I'm saying is let the dust settle from the launch and see how they deal with it the upcoming months
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] canynballa:
Maybe they'll do better the second time around when they make another phone.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] gqukyo:
That's how OnePlus was.... their OPO launch was pretty horrible. They're doing much better now. Still with some hiccups but definitely much better than when they launched their first phone.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] cb474:
Yes, I agree, what will really be telling will be if they incorporate any of the criticisms of the Ph-1 into the Ph-2 (assuming there is a Ph-2).
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] spotmark:
I received this reply this morning. No dates, but it sounds encouraging.

Erich T (Essential Products)

Sep 27, 9:32 AM MST

Hi Mark,

Thank you for reaching out.

We are going to support the 3rd party developer community by releasing our kernel and factory images. These will be made available soon, but I don't have a confirmed date at this time.

I don't know at this point where they will be uploaded to, but please stay tuned to Essential.com, and our social media channels for announcements.

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to reach back out to us. Have a great day!

Sincerely,

Erich

Essential Customer Experience Team
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] cb474:
Yes, they've been saying "soon" for a while now. There is already a long discussion above in this thread, between me and other people, about how Essential says "soon" and most of the time its means months. So the kernel source may come soon, hopefully, but that statement from customer service is just their stock answer to everything. They say "soon" regardless of what the behind the scenes reality is. So it could come tomorrow. It could come in January.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] parusia:
I prefer to see the cup half full, and hope "soon" means soon.

I think essential as a company is maturing little by little.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] cb474:
I've just seen them say "soon" too many times now without anything happening and make other promises that they don't keep. I don't believe it anymore. Remember during the 90 day delay for the release of the phone (after their intial 30 day estimate passed) they said "soon" almost daily on Twitter--for three months. And, in fact, someone else posted a similar message, from Essential, about the kernel source two weeks ago. In that message, they also said "soon." So much for "soon" meaning anything.

I have also seen Essential get called out on things they have said that are blatantly wrong (especially regarding the camera) and in inteviews instead of admitting it they actually double down on what is clearly not an honest statement. Andy Rubin himself has done this on more than one occassion. So to me it just a bit naive to keep believing them.

Yes they are small and struggling. But they also seem to have an honesty/sincerity problem that they are unable to acknowledge. And it seems to go all the way to the top in the person of Rubin himself. I don't know how many times people have to be bonked over the head before they accept it.

It is disappointing. The phone has such a great design and the company seemed so promising at first.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] quadcrap1:
Supposedly, you'll void your warranty if you root the Essential phone (once it's possible). I'm not surprised when someone like Verizon does that, but since Essential is leveraging themselves on a bunch of early adopters and talk about "your phone" a lot, it seems kind of crappy...

https://www.theandroidsoul.com/root...ds-warranty-and-99-costing-extended-warranty/
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] dpackerz:
No one is going to warranty a phone that you root. You make a mistake and brick "your" phone, you chose to take that risk. We all do when we root.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] cb474:
I don't really get why it has to be this why. I mean, every personal computer in the world, the user has "root"/administrative access to. And no one ends up bricking their computer. You can always just wipe the disk and reinstall the OS. Yeah, that's a pain. But you're not going to destroy the hardware by having root access. Only if something went wrong updating the BIOS could you end up in something like a bricking situation.

So why don't they just make phones, which are just small computers, the way the make desktops and laptops? Especially if someone is trying to design an Enthusiast phone like the Ph-1?

I seems like we only have these problems, because the phones are designed to be totally locked down, so you are forced to stay in the walled garden of whatever OS you are on. There's really no intrinsic reason simply having root access should be such a big deal.

*

[Edit: This is interesting. I didn't know this. In the EU rooting a device does not void the warranty. Companies are prohibited by law from doing this. See: http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu

That is entirely civilized and sensible.]
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] parusia:
Yes, but I think the majority of people aren't rooting just to change the OS, or change the skins, or even just to install TWRP.

The majority of people who root their phones are over clocking and messing with the kernel. Those practices can cause stress on the hardware as well, as the article sates if the seller can prove that the over clocking of the device cause hardware damage you are in your own and out of warranty.

I'm one of the people who use to root my phones since the first date I got it, now days I think Android OS is good enough just enjoy my phones the way they are.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] flakko86:
That IS interesting. I was reading the article to see how they dealt with hardware problems caused by root and I came across this excerpt:

"A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software – e.g. overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker."

Ezpz. Is it possible to lock down the kernel to prevent the tampering that might cause issues that Parusia is talking about? Because even in certain computer chipsets the manufacturer disables the ability to overclock.

I for one am the type of person that roots mainly for TWRP, app freezing and adaware...just quality of life things. If I do anything to the kernel it would be to make it more battery efficient haha
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] tech_head:
That is not true.

If the buttons fall off, the warranty is not void.

In the US they can only void that part of the warranty that was affected by what you did.

They, then must prove that you did the act that cause the issue. You do not have to prove that what you did, didn't cause the problem.

This has been rehashed multiple times in different forums.

In the US, see Magnuson- -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

Had the same discussion about Pixel and Nexus phones.

They can say what they want, but they will honor the warranty when faced with the threat of this act.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] theandroidbot:
OK, so not to be rude what this is completely false. Rooting your phone will not void your Essential Phone warranty. The site you referenced is obscure and not credible. There where no footnotes or information as to the source of this information. Plus there was no information about the author of this article or his credibility. This is what you call FAKE NEWS. I won't believe that it voids your warranty until Essential mentions it directly on their site. And as an aside if you ever have a problem with your phone and need to send it in then you can remove root before hand. If you are capable of rooting and have the knowledge to do it then you should have the knowledge to remove it. Just re-flash stock ROM (once available) and then your good to go. I don't get why everyone freaks out about rooting or having access to the system. Most mistakes you make on your phone can be undone. Most people who root know what they are doing.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] cb474:
I'm not really sure what the majority of people root their phones for. It would be interesting to see an appropriately done, statistically relevant, randomized, poll done on that. But just from years of handing around XDA, I think a lot of people do it just to use certain apps (Titanium Backup, Adaway) and to get custom ROMs. If had to guess overclocking and custom kernels is more of a niche thing and not the main reason people root. I would not even be surprised if the majority of people root just to use certain apps and never even go as far as a custom ROM.

Anyway, as tech_head said, the burden is not on the user to prove what they changed did not break the phone. The burden is on the manufacturer to prove that you caused the issue by overclocking or whatever.

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:06 PM ----------

Here's is what Essential's warranty says:

See: https://www.essential.com/warranty

So it says "defects or damage resulting from...installation of unauthorized software and unauthorized root access (including jailbreaking)." It's funny that it uses the Apple specific term jailbreaking. But anyway, there's wiggle room in there. It doesn't say rooting in itself voids the warranty. It says "defects or damage resulting from...." This seems to be in keeping with what tech_head said, that U.S. law requires them to show that what you did caused the defect and that the simple fact of having rooted the phone is not sufficient. Interestingly, the warranty mentions "unauthorized software" in a very general way. So that could include, I suppose, simply sideloading an app. Say you install something not from the Play store and it has malware in it that causes your processor to run continuously and fry itself somehow (at least hypothetically speaking, I don't know if that's possible). I suppose that could void the warranty, even if you never rooted the phone or unlocked the bootloader.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] canynballa:
Overclocking to me is something of past when smartphones weren't really that fast and smooth. Now a days there's no reason for it because smartphone are already fast and smooth. They are even smoother when you can root and get ride of bloatware.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] swagglepuff:
I don't see them releasing the kernel untill they have addressed more of the issues and bugs that are present. It only makes since to iron out a few more significant issues and then release a more solid and usable code.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] hellot1M:
I disagree. It would make more sense to release it asap so they can have more hands on it and possibly fixed by our developers. This has happened several times in the past. It would be in their best interest to release all source so more people are working on the issues than just their limited team.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] swagglepuff:
Given the backlash they have received, from all the dumbass reviewers who only like Samsung. Why would they release a buggy kernel to the public to have people just turn around and jump their asses for that. I understand that it would be very beneficial for them to release the kernel and let the developers so what they do best. Unfortunately social media has made that impossible because people are to stupid to understand that a brand new largely untested software is going to have issues. I bought this phone full well knowing I would be apart of a software as it matures into something pretty damn awesome.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] dpackerz:
Andy Rubin is following his image of the company, not Samsungites. This phone is only party of his plan. Fixes are coming faster than I've seen with other phones. I'm sure he's reluctant to release to other developers, who would tend to fix things in a way that makes it just like the crowd. I've had issues with every phone I've owned to some degree. Most of the industry wants him to fail, so issues will be magnified.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] swagglepuff:
This right here!
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] hellot1M:
Can someone give me an example of when a company was scrutinized because of an issue with their kernel or firmware. In turn I'd love to share with you times it's been praised when a random developer found and fixed an issue after the release of this information.

I just can't see how releasing it now would damage their image. A lot of people are returning their phones or selling them online because of the lack of support given by the company. I see nothing but negative articles about this device and it seems to stem from empty promises. I really don't see this becoming a problem if they release now and some talented developer finds that one random digit that was causing that one random issue that's only effecting a very small percentage of essential phone owners.

Can you point out or give me an example of how this can be a bad idea. The examples given above are only speculation based on zero past evidence of the industry.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] swagglepuff:
Kernel is available

https://www.essential.com/opensource
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] iLLdWes:
After all the negativity in this thread, no one says anything after the kernel is released... People love to hate this phone. The main problem IMO is that not enough people have this phone to get so developers probably wont waste their time. Hope im wrong..
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] swagglepuff:
There is a thread where people are already at work on it. Now essential needs to release the factory images. With out those they can't begin to work on twrp, or magisk.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] sash11:
Can you give the link to this thread, please. I cannot seem to find any live thread for actual dev work on this device.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] spotmark:
https://xdaforums.com/essential-pho...e-released-t3686367/post74131141#post74131141
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] canynballa:
I still haven't seen anything on rooting the essential yet even though the bootloader can be unlocked and the kernel was released.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] shooterlgk:
People r just waiting for the factory images to b released. After that I don't think it will be too long. Essential just seems to take their sweet time doing things.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] rzracer2:
Got excited today when I saw the price drop to $499 but with zero development better to wait. The 5t should be out soon anyway.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] Amd4life:
Once a root option is available, I will buy one with the cool price drop.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] stinger4321:
Same boat about price drop.. but seems like serious issues on verizon network and .. no development.. buzz kill
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] mark_20:
If you are on Verizon, do not expect any of the advanced features like VoLTE (HD Voice), WiFi Calling, or Visual Voicemail. Essential tech support is pretty much useless, and Verizon will just tell you that they do not support any of the advanced features on open source phones like the PH-1.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] spotmark:
VoLTE works on VZW. For WiFi calling and visual voicemail use Google voice.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] mark_20:
I have been unable to get VoLTE to work on my device. It is activated on my account, and works fine on my older HTC 10 when I put the SIM in it. Just never works in the Essential PH-1. Essential Tech Support has been rather useless, just saying some people have this working but we have no idea how to make it work. Verizon just says they do not support any advanced features, including VoLTE on open source devices like the Essential PH-1.

So if you have some suggestions for how to get this up and running, I am all ears. And I already use Google Voice for my voicemail and was planning on using it for WiFi calling. But the lack of VoLTE is a deal breaker with me.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] QD2DC:
I have VoLTE working too and I came from the nexus 6p. Idk what you've tried already but I'll go over a few basics in hopes of helping. Don't be offended if I ask really basic questions, just want to make sure we don't overlook anything small that may be important.

So first, on your HTC 10, you added HD voice to your line, if you have multiple lines make sure it's on your line, it's a line thing, not an account thing. I have multiple lines on my business account but only some lines have HD voice enabled for specific work reasons.

Second, you enabled it on your HTC 10 correct? I think it's in the network settings or dialer settings, I forget since I didn't use the HTC 10 after the user trials. So when you call someone else on Verizon that also has HD voice enabled, you see the HD symbol in the dialer, you can tell the obvious audio difference?

Third, last I check preferred network should be set to global, although the essential had a few extra settings that still worked.

If all the above is true then it should just work on the essential by setting preferred network type to global and enabling enhanced 4g lte mode.
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] mark_20:
Yes, HD Voice is enabled on this line. As for the higher voice quality that is nice but the real advantage of using VoLTE (HD Voice) is simultaneous voice and data, which is unavailable on non VoLTE phones. This all works fine on my HTC 10, but when I put the SIM in the Essential the phone drops the data connection whenever I am on a call.

So we are all clear.

- Yes, HD Voice is enabled on this line

- Yes, VoLTE is enabled on the PH-1

- Yes, Network is set to Global. Though I have also tried the default setting with no success.

- Yes, Enhanced 4G/LTE is enabled
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] QD2DC:
That's strange. It sounds like you have it all enabled like you should. You listed that you have VoLTE enabled and enhanced 4g lte mode enabled? Those are same so I'm unsure why you listed it twice.

Do you have data roaming on?
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] mark_20:
Yes, data roaming is on. I have VoLTE listed separate from Enhanced 4G LTE Mode as their are two places to enable them. Enhanced 4G LTE Mode is enabled from Settings/Cellular Networks, and if you dial *#*#4636#*#* you can enable the various services individually (VoLTE, Video Calling, WiFi Calling).
[Essential Phone Questions & Answers] QD2DC:
Gotcha. Yea I don't mess with those settings lol. I only had to enable enhanced 4g lte mode.