yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Cavey.co.uk:
The point then is you prove the null hypothesis.

You have to assume that there is, in fact, no difference between Kaisers and the differing opinion is based on the fact that.... well, it's an opinion. This would be your null hypothesis.

The alternative is that not all Kaisers are equal and those who have a bad opinion just have crap hardware.

By NOT being able to prove a correlation between hardware and opinion, you cannot disprove that the hardware is always equal which leaves you with the null hypothesis.

So far we have definitly proven that some people have higher expectations than others.

We have also shown that different ROMs benchmark quicker than other ROMs.

So.... what next?

It also appears that there are a few people who wont be happy if it doesn't play Doom 3 and they will argue that their Kaiseris crap even if it does manage to play Quake 3. It also appears that benchmarks are somewhat dubious as they don't benchmark the hardware and are effected by settings such as sound state, the ROM installed and God knows what else.

Result is we need a new/better test.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
Hehehe, Why do you think I am not satisfy with my life? How do you know that? ...

What are my deep seated issues?

My God ... you cant counter my arguments? And you are now talking about me?

Still, you cannot answer my questions :) If people are still not happy with 1700+ score benchmark, then you cannot validate your claim that 1600+ score indicate the user is happy.

How about 1450? 1500? 1550? 1599?

Ah forget it, you still dont get it ...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
Gogol.

1) Considering your "mission" on this thread, I can safely assume quite a lot about you and know that I am not going to be too far away from the truth.

2) I have countered your remarks three times now and grow bored of doing so.

But in the spirit of enlightenment: maybe the 1700 plus users who are unhappy are unhappy because they know that their device would be quicker with "THE" drivers... but so what? Thats not what we are trying to do with this thread.

We are looking at averages here - and are doing it in an informal way - particularly as cavey says, the test we have isnt conclusive enough to allow us to answer all the questions.

Anyway... the comparison with the Hermes was my starting point and my Kaiser is definitely faster than my Hermes was... so hooray.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joshuah82:
I was under the impression the whole point of this thread was to determine that peoples' reactions were based on perception or pehaps a "bad batch" of Kaisers. Even with a clear understanding of how benchmarking works, and knowing that you can't really compare results between two different devices that could have any number of unknown variances, the results are almost shockingly similar with the baseline of no today plug-ins, no sound, etc, etc. Which to me would at least help indicate that the difference is clearly perception and not hardware.

I don't think anyone who has been constructively contributing to this thread is intent on forcing their perception on others. They just trying to figure out why there is a difference in perception. I don't see what is wrong with that at all.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] crazyC:
Ran this on my O2 Stella (o2 original rom) - with all my apps and synced to my exchange server etc. Turned sound off.

Got 1620

Ran this on my Hermes under the same conditions got 1520. (Windows 6.1)

On the graphics test it outperformed the Stellar by a bit, but what surprised me was that it basically walked all over the Stellar on the sound category? 1362.

What is that about?

(Obviously the stellar came out on top on the other three to give it an overall better score.)

Not trying to get involved with the whole drivers argument, or the am I happy with my benchmark score, but just thought that this was an odd result.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
You do like making assumption :) ...

That means ... your validation (1300/1600) related to the unhappy/happy is NOT valid.

Right ... then dont make any conclusion or validation like "1600+ = happy user" ... because simply you cant, like you have admited.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dungbeetle:
He never did, FWIW.

You know, even though there were both satisfied and unsatisfied users participating, this thread was refreshingly civil until you came along.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgmdean:
Wow. The signal to noise ratio of this thread dropped through the floor when I had my back turned. :mad:

Dragging this thread back on topic kicking and screaming... :D

This being the xda DEVELOPERS forum does anyone know how to tweak WinCE's thread time slice? Methinks that making this smaller might make for a smoother overall experience (slide open screen switch for example) at the cost of some overall performance efficiency. Or Not.

Repeating for the ADD readers: HOW DO YOU CHANGE THE THREAD TIMESLICE ON WINDOWS MOBILE?

James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikeer:
Ok, ok, I see that you do not want to be convinced.

I know that my device would perform better with the drivers, I know that, but if you look at THE VIDEO you will see that the problem isn't just some benchmark score or slow video playback, it is slow GUI and TomTom and everything AND I got 1720 on my score. In fact, I do not really care about watching video on my phone or the camera, but I would be much MORE HAPPY if there was no overall lag.

Just to clarify my point here: I am UNHAPPY not because "my device performs good but I know that it would perform better" but because "in addition to missing drivers it is all laggy (based on my perception of laggy, in comparison with my old PDAs and Unwired4's PDA in the video) and THAT makes me SAD".

It takes only 1 sample in a statistical analysis to ruin a perfect correlation. If this benchmark is supposed to be completely correlated with my happiness (or lagginess of my Kaiser), and my Kaiser is laggy, then how come it achieved a score higher than other members' devices?

PS Wasn't it the whole point of the thread to prove that there are faulty series of Kaisers out there and more-or-less-acceptable ones?

And some clues that would suggest that which were mentioned earlier:

-A Kaiser was laggy, had it's motherboard replaced and started working much faster

-O2 Stellar release delayed and it seems that they don't have laggy devices

-Most of the people who have bought Kaisers recently seem to be more happy than the ones who bought them in october-november 2007

-Videos emerge on YouTube of not-so-laggy Kaisers, and there are claims by some Kaiser users that their devices perform much faster and smoother than the ones in the videos of laggy Kaisers
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Steve-C:
Now I understand YOUR issue. I almost sat here with my mouth open in shock at how physically slow your device is for changing orientation. Mine is noticably quicker, with the top and bottom bar change being almost instant. Granted the rest of it takes a bit longer, but I am running SBSH ilauncher which takes time to reformat its icons to the wider screen, same for SBSH Weather. I'm also running Wisbar Advance, so if anything, your device with a standard top bar, should be quicker than mine which is customised under Wisbar. I'm just thinking that standard should be quicker than a plugin on top of standard. Trying mine against your video, mine had changed orientation and completely redrawn everything before yours had moved the top bars on one switch.

I take it your an early adopter, whilst I have one of the o2 models. So there are definately things pointing towards it being more than JUST drivers.

Thoughts?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikeer:
Well, the device I have was purchased in early December, but that was in a small city in eastern Russia, so it is most probably from some early series.

I remember your thread about the fact that your Kaiser performs fine when it comes to GUI, and it was probably the first time I realised that there are some series that are just plain slow and the ones that are more or less fast. DO you use TomTom? If you do, does it perform like the Magician, or like the Kaiser in the famous video? And also check out the video response to that clip, which shows a Tilt performing much faster! That has got to mean that there are different Kaisers out there!

I didn't mean to sound mad in the previous post, but I just had to point out that Unwired4 ignores that the issue with my device isn't just the drivers :P (and that there is no correlation with the benchmark)

And I also just discovered a new article by mobile-review.com, it is in russian, but you can watch the videos. Basically, what they are saying is that "HTC didn't promise anything to anybody, and everybody who says that there is a problem with new HTC devices is a liar". I wonder how much they got paid.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
LMFAO, guess what? We had a different objective with the class action thread as well, until an

asshole

came in there swearing at people and utterly hijacking it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikeer:
I decided not to hijack this thread and started my own one trying to link the serial numbers to the lag problems.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
As I don't swear on this forum, you can't mean me...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bapssystupr3m3:
Graphics 1244

Others 2073

JPEG 2614

Games 1524

Sounds 0583

Final 1607

this is done on a stock never been flashed HTC TYTN II.

installed everything on phone's memory except for the benchmark program which i installed on my 6GB SDHC.

i took some screens for reference.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bapssystupr3m3:
the other screens
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikeer:
So... Are you "happy" with your Kaiser? Is it laggy like in the famous TomTom video or like in my video?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bapssystupr3m3:
hmm well i dunno if i can say i'm happy but i guess im satisfied altho i was let down a bit with the speed...coming from a SE p1i...i thot it would be much faster...but then i'm satisifed with what the phone can do i can live with the speed

ps. i havent had the chance to watch the videos
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
Aha! A new kind of user! .... Happy but not satisfied :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jay2TheRescue:
This is what I got:

test #

1 1076

2 1758

3 2231

4 1250

5 0688

Overall score: 1400

I'm using the stock AT&T Rom, with bloatware removed. I have lots of stuff in the background though. I'm running S2U2, Ultimate Launch, weatherpanel, you know the really cool stuff that uses lots of memory.

I installed the benchmark to the storage card, and ran it with sound.

-Jay
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
Graphics 1171

Others 1939

JPG 2537

Games 1440

Sound 0662

Final 1549

Running a flashed HTC stock rom, S2U2 running, SPB Mobile Shell running, rlToday running and VITO SMS-Chat running.

What are other devices getting, like the TyTn?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Steve-C:
Responded in your thread to avoid taking this one off topic!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NetSkipper:
Graphics: 1111

Others: 1597

JPEG: 2403

Games: 1342

Sound: 0764

Final Score: 1443
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pyro9219:
1034

1672

2085

1177

0734

Final Score: 1340

This was done while connected to my desktop via USB, with S2U2 and agile mobile running on a bloat removed Tilt (Stock rom) running HTC home.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Burko:
My benchmark came out at 1635.

My problem recently is my Contacts and phone application, (although I suspect it's just the contacts program with the Phone being affected as they are connected)

When i open my contacts it takes a full 20-30 seconds to populate the list, (sim contacts are hidden by the way)

Ive debranded from the stock T-Mobile and removed unwanted programs.... No Cube no Voice Command etc.

When my contacts finally open, scrolling down by using the D-Pad takes about 10-15 seconds to respond to each button press and if i select a contact it will hang for 20 seconds or so before responding.

Frustrating thing is that ill be calling someone while still in the contacts program...or if someone calls in, i have no idea who it is and cannot answer because of the hang.

I dont even get the waiting icon (spinny round thing) to say the system is busy, just an incredible hang.

Taskmanager shows that Poutlook is only using 20kish of system memory so i dont understand why it would be hanging so much.....any ideas?

Oh and by the way, I only have about 50 or so contacts in that list!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] saprydion:
My Kaiser was really really slow at running programs and the touchscreen was also really really slow even though I had 60MB of RAM available.

Then I discovered what made my Kaiser unbearably slow...MemMaid. I hard reset my Kaiser and installed every program back but without MemMaid, my Kaiser became quite fast.

Maybe people with slow Kaiser have MemMaid or other memory managing programs installed?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
You've installed an app that must be causing that behaviour.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] wilsonzone:
Graphics: 1095

Others: 1498

JPEG: 2316

Games: 1349

Sound: 0726

Final Score: 1397

I'm using Dutty's V4 RTM Rom.

I'm sure I have lots of goodies running in the background but wanted a benchmark that would reflect usual operation.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Algus Helm:
With phone on:

Graphics: 1103

Others: 1913

JPEG: 2312

Games: 1310

Sound: 0690

Final Score: 1465 with original HTC ROM (1.82.707.0 WWE)

Phone Off (Via Comm Manager -> Flight Mode):

Graphics: 1095

Others: 1919

JPEG: 2315

Games: 1292

Sound: 0904

Final Score: 1505 with original HTC ROM (1.82.707.0 WWE)

Apps instaled (I disable everything on Task manager but I know some are in background)

HTC Home customizer

HTC album

Core player

Kaiser tweak

PHM registry editor

Destinator 6

and the benchmark program of course

Sometimes it works fast, some times works slow...

This rom (original) works fine for me but I wanna more speed. My former Palm T|X was faster on apps than my actual Kaiser (execpt for Documents to Go - a patience test)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greenbrd:
But the fanboys don't want anybody to simulate real-world usage. You're supposed to only run the benchmark after a soft reset, with nothing running in the background, no third-party apps installed, sound off, and the microsd card removed. And for goodness sakes, don't touch the touchscreen.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bapssystupr3m3:
just did a benchmark and got this

graphics 1274

others 2021

jpeg 2711

games 1539

sounds 0569

final 1622
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
benchmarks in general

I am not a believer anymore in Vbenchmark values.

My stock Rom had a 1397 score, Dutty's was around 1600 and I know have Alex's V5.2 with TONS of soft on it with a score of 1492.

Guess what? never ever was my TytnII as fast (no more video lag, delay in typing etc) than ever before.

Not 1 application takes more than 2-3 seconds to start, no lag on screen.

I played around for a month with Advanced config's, reg tweaks and so on but did not even gain 5% increase.

I simply increased the ROM buffer to 8mb, installed all soft on the SDHC 8gig card and believe me, my device is "flying"
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 1stPeregrine:
Rom buffer

How did you increase the rom buffer to 8mb?

Regards
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fusi:
linkto benchmark software? its not anywhere!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Foxhunter123:
Hmm I would also like to hear how to increase the rom buffer - if I do a search I only get this thread... :confused:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
Schap's Advanced Config. You'll find it in the Wiki or on Dutty's d-load page.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fredbred:
TyTN II is realy slow....

Hi,

I am very unsatisfied with the response of my Kaiser. I have posted two videos (sory for the poor quality, I don’t have a proper camera, as I spend so much money for Kaiser )

Please let me know if you have the same experience.

One video with nothing running in background (only today plugins HTC & PhoneAlarm), one video with skype.

I have still the original ROM as I bought it and HTC haven’t released any updates yet.

Thanx

PS: The funny thing is, when you open the keyboard when using Skype, you cannot do anything, not even hung up or accept calls, change volume... Quite funny, the HTC should rename itself to THC.

With Skype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1i93dUR3-A

Nothing running in backround: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lns5P8XRe8

---

More powerful than any mobile communications device you've seen before, the HTC TyTN II takes global connectivity to the next level.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] MikeChannon:
Not sure what the problem is there. Mine (using stock HTC ROM) shows no difference in screen orientation speed with Skype running. I triesd all sorts of things to slow it down eg trying to do it when it was still trying to establish a connection etc, but nothing slowed down the orientation speed.

Just some thoughts:

Do you have a very large contacts list?

Perhaps it may be the version of Skype you are running - there are a few different ones?

My Skype is set to use wifi only so I do not kbnow how it behaves on data (non wifi) connectoion.

Mike
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fredbred:
I have checked the version of skype - is the latest available, as some reported having problem using the older ones with tytnII or wm6, dont remember.

The list is not short, but its really slows down only when I speak with somebody. Even worse if I turn the echo cancellation on. Maybe I take a video later, if I have more time, as it can really take up to minutes…

I have done a Hard Reset some time ago after which I have installed skype as the first program and it was the same. Because I bought the phone mainly to use it as a phone and skype-phone. I use only wifi for skype – the same like you.

It seems to me as HTC has released more versions of the Kaiser and maybe with very different HW – maybe that’s why they don’t know how to aid it, because the cause of slowing down of video, system,… is different for every version of the phone.

Anyway I bought the phone in 11/2007. And the only update since then (official) is a BT fix and a Photo-sharpener fix. I am really very disappointed with the service as I have paid quite big money for it.

Thanks for any advice
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rfarnell:
I'm definitely seeing an improvement with programs such as Net Browser 3.5 which ivs cache intensive but see next to no difference in things like the screen redraw when changing from landscape to portrait. I wonder if this alteration will have any effect on battery life for the worse. Thank you for the tip.

Rob
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Knumb:
where's the benchmark link??
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Foxhunter123:
I DL a french version??? Isn't there any english version?

Sorry of course there is and I found it :-)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Foxhunter123:
Ok I actually notice a difference - it does make the screen turn more quick!!! Thank you! :)
[Google Pixel XL Questions & Answers] xraystyle:
So I have a Play Store Pixel XL running stock 7.1.1, rooted, with TWRP 3.0.2-0-RC1 recovery.

Most upgrade guides I've read seem to assume stock recovery, or no root to start, or some such.

What do I need to do to get to Stock Android O, rooted? If I need to wipe the phone I can, but I'd prefer not to if I can avoid it.

Thanks!
[Google Pixel XL Questions & Answers] TENN3R:
If you don't want to wipe just update through factory image, just open the factory zip, open flash-all file and remove "-w" from last line, then execute it (update without wipe)

But I suggest to flash the stock factory image with the "-w" to make a clean install, flashing major release like 7.x -> 8.x is always better wipe to avoid potential issues.

But yes, you can first give a try without wipe and only if you find bugs try wiping. Your choice.
[Google Pixel XL Questions & Answers] uicnren:
simply flash the OTA, then re-root
[Google Pixel XL Questions & Answers] toknitup420:
Use full unroot in supersu. Then take ota. Then root again after upgrading to O
[Google Pixel XL Questions & Answers] xraystyle:
Thanks for the help everyone, you pointed be in the right direction.

In the event that it might help someone else, here's what I ended up doing:

1. I downloaded the OTA, booted into the TWRP I had currently installed, and then sideloaded the OTA.

2. I used ADB to push the newest TWRP flashable zip, the latest SuperSU, and the latest SU-Hide to /sdcard on the device.

3. I then used the most recent TWRP bootable img, booted into it with fastboot, and used it to flash the TWRP zip I had previously pushed to the phone storage. I then had the OTA with the latest TWRP installed on the phone.

4. Finally, I rebooted to recovery on the phone (latest TWRP now instead of stock), and flashed SuperSU and SU-Hide.

I'm now stock, rooted, on O. No wipe necessary, kept all my apps and data. So far the OS itself has been entirely stable. I had an issue or two with a few apps after the upgrade, but those were fixed with a quick re-install. Except for Better Terminal Emulator Pro, seems it doesn't want to work on Oreo and it's no longer under active development. It's fine though, there's other terminal emulators out there.

Thanks again for the help!
[Google Pixel XL Questions & Answers] fiveighteen:
Which version of TWRP do you have TWRP working with Oreo 8.0?

I can boot into the modded TWRP 3.1 (fastboot boot twrp-3-1-pixel-bootable-mod.img) but AFAIK there is no working flashable recovery for 8.0 yet.
[Google Pixel XL Questions & Answers] gordonlw:
quick question, are the steps the same for stock root 7.1.2? I've never installed twrp. I've fastbooted to it to root and that's it. I'm familiar with that as I've sideloaded all the ota security updates and the re-rooted.

my main question is su-hide required? I have never done it and have no reason to that I'm aware of. Seems all the guides I see involve su-hide and flashing kernels etc. I've never changed kernels since having the pixel. Really just want root for adaway.

I plan to do a clean install of O and then hope to root with fastboot twrp to flash supersu.
[Google Pixel XL Questions & Answers] toknitup420:
That's how I did it. I don't use suhide.
[Google Pixel XL Questions & Answers] Ozark_8125:
Does the -w in the .bat file format or wipe the data? I want a clean clean , o-fresh in the morning feeling kind of wipe
[Google Pixel XL Questions & Answers] gordonlw:
Thanks! What I ended up doing:

Decided to try and unroot and take the ota. super-su full unroot would not work. so I fastbooted to the mod twrp and flashed UPDATE-unSU. I then took the ota. then fastbooted to mod twrp and flashed super-su. worked perfect!
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 4 Questions & Answers] alvians:
does rom miuipro 7.8.31 Nougat already support xposed?
[Xiaomi Redmi Note 4 Questions & Answers] arunak:
Not stable till now
[General Topics] monkaN:
Welcome, sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong section,

I'm trying to unpack android 6.0.1 image from the android box (Taric TX3 Pro) for 3 days, why?

I've to delete one system application, SuperSU (no, device is NOT rooted)

I tried This

https://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2294909

and This

https://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2195858

.

I have tried to extract .img with bandizip, 7-zip, ext4_unpacker. 0 effect "The image is in unknown format or is corrupted"

And yeah, sorry for broken English, still teaching it, hope someone will be able to understand and help me :)
[Sony Xperia X Questions & Answers] venomxob:
Hi Guys. Is there any way to fix the problem with ability to write data by apps on the sd card? I have been searching a solution, but found none.
[Sony Xperia X Questions & Answers] dingoyabuki:
I have the same question.