yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
Another video. Still not great quality but this shows the device scrolling in PIE and switching to landscape whilst in PIE.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] zetajunkie:
test ran from both the device and storage card (4gb sandisk)

from device

1. 1138

2. 1887

3. 2411

4. 1352

5. 0628 total = 1483

from card

1. 1134

2. 1894

3. 2492

4. 1351

5. 0633 total = 1500

card was left in during device test, considering it's always installed. many random apps installed on device, only one running during test was battery status today plugin.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sharpja:
Thanks! I might have to give it a go.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Fitipaldi1:
Test run on AT&T 8525 and Tilt. I ran all on a fresh flash, install the test into RAM, turn on airplane mode, SR, then run test.

8525 (Stock AT&T WM5 ROM)

Graphics - 1555

File - 1126

JPEG - 2313

Game - 1358

Sound - 1361

Overall - 1542

8525 (Stock AT&T WM6 ROM)

Graphics - 1558, 1559 Muted

File- 1125, 1133 Muted

JPEG - 2319, 2313 Muted

Game - 1363, 1363 Muted

Sound - 1364, 1358 Muted

Overall - 1545, 1545 Muted

On average, +0.42% performance improvement when muted

Tilt (Stock AT&T WM6 ROM)

Grahics - 1105, 1261 Muted

File - 1984, 2281 Muted

JPEG - 2292, 2606 Muted

Game - 1305, 1568 Muted

Sound - 655, 564 Muted

Overall - 1468, 1656 Muted

On average, +11.31% performance improvement when muted

I guess Samsung makes better chips than Qualcomm :eek:

unwired4, PM me with your email if you want a spreadsheet version of this...I've already created it but can't attach an Excel file.

Cheers
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mike Philippens:
That's what I do. It's storage memory. No point in leaving it unused. My best guess is that the interface between the card and the device is pre-WWII version. This device has a lot of internal memory, so use it. Especially if you don't have many apps. Use the card for storage. I put my TomTom maps on it and the TT app is on the device. Works brilliantly.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Cavey.co.uk:
Stock O2 ROM with a whole heap of crap loaded onto it (SPB Pocket Plus, HTC Home, SPB GPRS Monitor, SPB Phone Suite, some O2 task manager, Calendar+) running on battery.

Test 1 1241

Test 2 2208

Test 3 2588

Test 4 1502

Test 5 0588

Final 1625

There's an 8Gb memory card installed with only data on it (no programs). Rebooted about an hour ago, have since sync'd, killed ActiveSync and run VSBenchmark. RAM usage is now 39.73Mb used of 101.38 total (61.65Mb free) although ActiveSync and CommManager are running again :s

Killed those, turned off all the today plugins and ran it again.

Test 1 1027

Test 2 2001

Test 3 2289

Test 4 1266

Test 5 0661

Final 1460

Go figure :s Re-enabled today plugins....

Test 1 1094

Test 2 1971

Test 3 2275

Test 4 1253

Test 5 0664

Final 1451

Which would indiciate it over-performed in the first attempt ?

Plugged it in and ran it again....

Test 1 1240

Test 2 2206

Test 3 2628

Test 4 1528

Test 5 0570

Final 1634

Sod it, I am going to bed.

Actuall, coming to think of it, first and last times I had the sound off :s (First because I didn't want to wake people up and last because I was sick of test 5). Hmmmmm......

Ok, am a physicist, of course I am gonna test the hypothesis. Exactly the same as the previous test, but with the sound on (dammit). Gets this -

Test 1 1086

Test 2 1968

Test 3 2275

Test 4 1241

Test 5 0660

Final 1446

Could those with 1600 or 1400 scores confirm whether they do the test with the sound on or off? Fancy trying it both ways to prove I am speshul (or not).

Now REALLY going to bed....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Scrog:
yikes with mute on (no sound) got 1730!!!11!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joshuah82:
...(waiting for the "HTC didn't provide hardware accelerated audio drivers" threads)... ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sahoopes:
I'm surprised this thread has been up as long as it has with no flaming.:confused:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joshuah82:
It's kind of refreshing. :) If sound really is causing that much of a hitch, that's a pretty significant find.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joshuah82:
Just noticed on unwired's YouTube videos that he has his phone on vibrate (no sound).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ejoy:
Graphics: 1245

Others: 1881

Jpeg: 2506

Games: 1508

Sound: 0594

Final score: 1546

Stock ATT Rom

How did I do?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joshuah82:
Just out of curiosity...was your sound turned on, on the device?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] laakness:
Test 1: 1037

Test 2: 1865

Test 3: 2178

Test 4: 1242

Test 5: 0689

Final: 1402 on battery power with sound ON.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] phan10m:
unwired so what did u do to make ur kaiser acutally someone decent to handle? just duttys rom?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nick Collision:
Yes, our Kiasers are gruesomely slow.

Don't blame it on custom ROM's, dont blame it on application overload, don't blame it on the customers, and don't use irrelevant benchmarks to "prove" your point. Fact is, our Kaisers are gruesomely slow.

So yes, your thread is confirmed, our Kaisers are gruesomely slow. Our Kaisers are gruesomely slow compared to devices created years ago. Our Kaisers are gruesomely slow compared to devices a couple of tech generations older. Our Kaisers are gruesomely slow drawing *anything* to its screen, and that is 95% of what the complaints are about.

It is gruesomely slow playing videos (despite the promise of a "rich multimedia experience" from HTC). It is gruesomely slow playing games, but impossibly slow playing any 3D games despite the promise from HTC espousing the Qualcomm 7200 chipset 3D gaming abilities.

So our Kaisers ARE gruesomely slow in many ways important to many HTC customers.

If you are satisfied with your Kaiser, then I'm happy for you. You probably would have been satisfied with an older model as well, and paid as much as much as 200% less for it. I hope that makes you happy. Meanwhile my Kaiser, as you assert, is gruesomely slow. And so is yours.

Gruesomely slow,

Nick
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DaneMaximus:
Try doing the test while touching the screen. I got below 300 for the first 2 options.

I've always found that sound takes up a lot of processing power. I had a pool game on my phone. With the sound on, everytime a ball would hit another ball the game would stop for a fraction of a second then resume. So I just started playing with the sound off.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
Yep - sounds off. I always leave sound off unless listening to music or watching video. Not intentionally for speed though... but will test device today with sound on to see results. First thing I always do with a WMd evice is turn off screen clicks and menu sounds anyway - as running a wav file every time you do anything always slowed these devices down.

Oh and Nick - thanks for your help.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
Its always been fast enough - even with the orange rom. Maybe sound off is the big difference...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
Sound On

1144

1965

2465

1368

0857

Score 1559

Vibrate On

1310

2264

2683

1611

0549

Score 1683
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greenbrd:
I finally get it

The Kaiser is a wicked fast device as long as you don't use it to watch movies, don't use it to play games, don't let the phone ring or the pda make any sounds, don't use the touch screen, don't use PIE without the special "fix", don't use the camera without upgrading the software and then putting your finger over the lens, don't run apps from the memory card, don't store too many files in the main memory, and don't use the factory ROM from the manufacturer.

Sounds great. Where can I buy more?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Michaelr219:
NOWWW you get it!!! took you long enough :D

lol
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Boinng:
Just wondering, people aren't mad enough to leave that slider sound on, are they? I turned mine off within a minute of turning the phone on for the first time, and I have to admit I'm not particularly bothered by the portrait->landscape orientation time, but if there is a problem with sounds (which seems likely) then presumably that slidy jingle would slow things down quite a bit, no?

Those with sound on, and slow screen change - do you have the sliding sound on or off in the settings?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Cavey.co.uk:
I still don't consider mine to be guresomely slow, but that might be because I don't know any better. It's not super fast, and possibly not even fast, maybe even slow, but I wouldn't agree to gruesomely

It's like trying to compare a C6 to a Pentium III without ever actually having used the latter, but having used a 486 and a Pentium II.

I have only used the Wizard and Hermes before and, while the Wizard was best for playing games (had buttons in the right place and PicoDrive ran reasonably smoothly) and both have a flash, I don't know of many other direct comparisons.

Thing is, I like my Kaiser and think it's a good piece of kit which I wont be getting rid of, but it is still a communication device more than an entertainment device which makes me look at TyTn's (and even Wizards) on ebay and wonder if I could get one to "play" with....

Anyway, same again, on charge and on vibrate (seeing as I haven't covered that yet)....

Graphics 1243

Other 2230

JPEG 2600

Games 1524

Sound 0582

Final 1635

There does seem to be a trend in the sound on = lower scores (which is somewhat worrying from a "benchmark" point of view). On charge/not on charge doesn't appear to make a difference.

Oh, and all my marks are with phone on, no bluetooth/wifi/whatever and the connection only showing EDGE but not connected.... guess what, flight mode, sound off...

Graphics 1258

Other 2297

JPEG 2611

Games 1531

Sound 0579

Final 1655

So a bit more, but not significantly more.

And given unwired4's scores being higher than mine, I would have to summise that different ROMs can get you better performance (and Unwired4's sound-loss is 130 and mine is 160... that might be within error :s). If anyone can spot how the major difference is caused I'd be impressed.

Can I uninstall VSBenchmarks now?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] laverda:
Hi all,

test 1 - 1303

test 2 - 2235

test 3 - 2767

test 4 - 1581

test 5 - 0561

final score - 1689 - with sound off

final score was 1509 with sound on

tilt running schaps wm6pro heavy. heaps of apps all installed on 2gb card

initially after 'upgrading' from dopod 838pro to the tilt i was terribly dissappointed in the lagging performance but since upgrading to schaps rom all my apps are running as fast if not faster. I don't however use my tilt for video so obviously i can't comment on that side of things.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] MACkjam:
What's all the fuss?

I have a TyTN II from Vodacom South Africa.

I have stacks of apps and games installed.

The only thing that is slow is the Camcorder. But then again, I didn't get this device for video recording.

I watch movies and they run as smooth as silk.

Changing from portrait to landscape is only about a second and a half delay. A second and a half? Can I manage that? Yup.

I had an iMate KJam before which my wife now uses. THAT was slow. But still a great device for everything I used it for.

My TyTN II is in a league of its own. I do not find it slow at all and I have all sorts of fancy 3D games like Shattered Worlds, Warfare Inc, Machines at War, Cybersaurus, Acky's Breakout, Atomic Canon etc etc etc and they all run much better on my TyTN II than on my Kjam.

My TomTom works great and although it does consume battery power when in use, it is fine after I close the app.

I think that maybe the roms etc that you guys have must be very different to mine and hence the variances in performance.

I am extremely happy with my device. It is much faster than my KJam....it is visible.

The camera app could be better with a flash but it still takes awesome pictures. Wayyyyyyyyy better than the KJam. Even better than my wife's Ericsson W900i. OK, so the video recorder leaves much to be desired and I am sure that this will get sorted out some time but it is not a deal breaker for me.

I a not sure what benchmarking software you are using, perhaps point me in the right direction and I will do a similar test on my device.

I have discovered, however, that certain apps like Pocket Informant 8 screws up the speed and ringtones so I removed it. Now it's sweet again.

I hope you guys find a solution to your problems and I am sure that hee at XDA you will.

Good luck and hang tight.

TyTN II ROCKS!!!!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] phoare:
Hmmm....

Guys, I really don't think this discussion about sound on/sound off is at all relevant. It's not unreasonable to expect something that makes sounds to run quicker when the speaker is off.

The only relevant thing to do here is to compare like-for-like... apart from where you're trying to see if there is a difference. So, with all other settings being the same, comparing one ROM with another is fine... to see if the ROM makes a difference. Comparing with memory card in and out would be good. Comparing one test _which doesn't play music_ with sound on and off might be of some interest.

One also has to be cautious about benchmark programs. They are often so far removed from "real life" that all you're doing is comparing how fast a particular benchmark program runs - rather than seeing how well a device runs whatever programs you typically run. And without re-running the same test with the same settings, several times to get an average, all bets are off. Without doing that, you simply don't know whether there's enough random variation in the device or benchmark to mean that the scores can fluctuate.

But it's good to see some effort in actually trying to do a scientific analysis as to why some people appear happy with their devices and some aren't. Interesting that it mostly seems those that are happy that are prepared to act rationally, investigate different scenarios and are pleasant in the forums. As a sweeping generalisation, those that aren't happy seem very happy to rant, threaten legal action, offer abuse and no real useful information (see above).

:-)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] look9001:
I'm sure mine is much slower than this. It takes about three seconds. I haven't changed the ROM or anything, it's the T Mobile Vario III UK version. I have tomtom and windows Live installed and that's about it.

However, I saw this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJWAu6IRe4

and the tomtom performance on my Kaiser is much more like the Magician than the Kaiser, so it seems some things are bad, but not as bad as others for me.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Michaelr219:
Id say the biggest reason why some of us are happy and some arent is because... some of the tilt users wanted this phone as exactly that, a phone first and a multimedia device second. me however, and a lot of others, look at this more as a multimedia/entertainment device and know what its capable of. compared to some other users whove had little experience with the capabilities of pocket pcs and have come from much inferior devices. im not bashing anyone or anything like that, im only saying that the phone is sub par at this point. The cooks and developers have made the phone really cool and more than practical... but there is a lot that you have to do to get it to that point. not only that, but compare to say an "iphone" (you knew that was comin lol) right out of the box this phone is lame wayyy less touch responsive. Which is why there are soo many iphone like knock offs for the ppc... i for one, love this one... i love what ive done to mine, because it is a constant work in progress trying to get that perfect build with all of my favorit apps, custom themes, gui's, shortcuts, etc... but from a gaming and video perspective, it is lacking. a good example would be s2us... the slider can barely keep up with my finger... not to say that its a bad program, cause its not... AT all... but on other phones, like the wizard or the hermes... it actually works like the iphone... but all in all... im done complaining... as should we all be... it wont get us anywhere. we need results! :D

with a phone like ours... id expect it to switch from portrait to lanscape like a sidekick... idk if youve ever seen how smooth and fluid it is... next time you are in a mall, check it out...

i hope these missing drivers make our phones this fast :eek:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] phoare:
Yes, but...

... There's just too much emotion and not enough hard-facts. I appreciate that the "some people are happy, some people aren't" may well be due to different usages and/or expectations. But there's also enough evidence of differences in *the same thing* between one person's device and another to make one question whether there are other factors at play here.

I have to say, and I just know I'm going to get flamed for this, but there is simply too much knee-jerk, sheep-following going on here with people complaining. It's a natural enough human emotion though... someone tells you that you've been conned, or that something you have is only running at 60% effectiveness, or whatever, and so you start believing it. Happens in many every-day situations.

Taking the example of switching from portrait to landscape, there are people here saying it takes a very short time - and some people saying that it takes a few seconds. That doesn't sound like a driver issue to me.. sure a better driver might make it faster, but there has to be some other reason for that difference (e.g. plugins in use).

Until there's a better understanding as to what is causing *those* differences, I suggest it's rather naive to believe that a better driver is the solution to all the issues. Not saying it's not going to help... just that it doesn't appear that the (absence of) driver is the sole reason here.

I quite accept - and appreciate - those people who report that when they run a particular video on the device it's poorer than some other device. That's a hard-and-fast example of a *real* problem. But we have other people saying that they get OK performance running a video. So the question then comes down to why... and it could well be the resolution or the codec, or running it from a slow card, or some other practical, obvious, issue like that. But this is my point... where's the reliable evidence as opposed to the emotional or misconstrued jumping onto the driver issue. Let's get *one* particular video clip, let's get everyone running that clip on their Kaisers, let's get non-Kaiser owners run that clip and let's compare results. If that shows that all Kaisers perform poorly compared to other/older devices then good (well, not, but you know what I mean...). If it transpires that there are differences between Kaisers, then let's try and resolve why (and it could be perception or expectation, or ROM, or free-space, or...).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BlueByte:
Graphics: 1063

Others: 1713

JPEG: 2211

Games: 1245

Sound: 0702

Final:1386

Vodafone Dutch standard ROM

Sound on
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
lol .... :D

Dont switch it on!

Now I understand why some people said their HTC Kaiser is damn fast!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Michaelr219:
ok... well your answer is obvious... many ppl have different roms, radios, versions, and also memory due to the applications they have running. if you were soo set on the belief that its more than just some drivers... why not have every one try a specific rom with specific parameters and report back with their individual results. thatd work, but on the other hand... it still doesnt explain why other OLDER phones are performing better graphic wise. the missing link is the drivers... that may seem far off to you, but think about it this way. what if you had a brand new car with 300+ hp and duel exhaust with only smoke coming out of one pipe... itd be along the same lines... we arent utilizing the phone to their full potential. if we were, it would be greatly evident and a lot of ppl wouldnt be complaining about how older phones respond with better video performance. instead, we'd all be shouting from the rooftops that we have the coolest phone on the market. but, simply put. we just arent there yet. which is why there is a class action lawsuit in progress :eek:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] phoare:
OK, I give up...

You missed the point in my previous post... *SOME* people *ARE* saying that their Kaisers switch to landscape in an instance. Unless those people have got different drivers to the rest of us, then THE ABSENCE OF A DRIVER CAN NOT BE THE CAUSE OF THAT DIFFERENCE.

Thus, you've completely proved the point I was trying to make that there's too much knee-jerk, emotive judgement going on here and *way* too little irrefutable evidence.

Thank you.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joshuah82:
I don't think I'd say the benchmarks are irrelevant. As a number by itself it is. But that's why it's just a "benchmark". You compare it against other "benchmarks" to attempt to guage (not measure) performance. They're not meant to be real to life tests. They're meant to push the system being tested.

And we have a result. We've found that at least one person that has been more happy with the device is not using it with sounds a good portion of the time. Does it mean there is some magical fix for the issue for everyone that uses the sound? No. Does it potentially help explain (at least part of) the clear differences in user experience. Sure.

I don't have a Kaiser (yet), but I see more value in doing stuff like this than in just complaining about it. Sure, action should be taken where necessary, but in the mean time, lets keep working towards a solution. HTC doesn't feel like they owe the community anything, so we shouldn't count on them for a solution for now.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joshuah82:
I should add that the results of the benchmarks and comparing them against different peoples' phones shouldn't be considered accurate representations as in most cases there will ALWAYS be differences in the circumstances surrounding the tests. A real guage is going to be several people taking a baseline for themselves and comparing it against their same device with new test conditions. Much like you see from a couple of the posters in this thread.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] samlee860407:
zzz....my score is 1270!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Michaelr219:
your welcome :p but you missed the point. switching from landscape to portrait in an instant was one rough scenario... ive had it in an instance too, but when using memory intensive apps like wad or opera mini... it can take a lot longer. there are soo many variables, and you arent realizing that the device is a lot more capable than we've seen. with the built in memory that we have, which we only use like half to 3/4 at most, we should be able to

do a lot more visually. yes, some ppl probably have other setups and roms, thats a given. but the fact that our touchscreens arent as RESPONSIVE and are arm processors arent supported for faster scaling (acceleration) when they should be... equals drivers! you want evidence... try downloading ANY game that uses the touch screen and youll find that it slows down quite a bit making a lot of games unplayable. games that are easily played by the predecessors. im done arguing... your "irrefutable evidence" will slap you in the face when we hit the next breakthrough. it always happens... the phone just gets, BETTER