yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
Please dont take this the wrong way but you have missed the point of this thread. No-one is saying that the Kaiser wouldn't benefit from the missing drivers. What the positive people on this thread are doing is:

1) Accepting that the drivers issue is out of our hands.

2) Comparing our devices to see if there are real reasons why some of us are happier than others.

3) Through 2) above, identifying ways to make more users happier in the short term.

4) Also through 2) above, looking to see if there are differences between our devices.

5) And finally, if there are differences, that will lead to research as to what they are and if its something that can take advantage of the skills at XDA-Devs to share the good news.

The tests results have already shown that sound can make a difference of circa 100 on the final score. But more importantly some users are scoring as low as 1277 and others as high as 1700.

So lets drop the negativity and lets try to get some happier Kaiser users.

Oh and show me a device that can swap to landscape "in an instance" whilst running opera mini (and thus displaying a page that has been optimised by the java app for portrait) and I will dance naked in Picadilly Circus.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] slowatsch:
I can't get the point of the discussion... as long as there are no other drivers, you can't see if it is the problem or not. Some people are handling the benchmark tool als the ultimate proof for what ever. Sry even a benchmark can be coded 100 ways, and the variants of video testing are endless. So there is a big possibility that different benchmakrs run different on different devices under different circumstances. Maybe one phone chip handles some calls different fast than an other one.

If I see some people homescreens I don't wonder why it takes 3 Secs to switch.

This bench is a proof for nothing.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Audio:
Back to topic :p

I'm on a stock HTC ROM, Stock Radio, apps in my signature, using standard HTC theme on today screen (boring, i Know) with just calendar and htc home plugin, and I get the following results:

Graphics - Test 1 = 1151

Others - Test 2 = 2025

JPEG - Test 3 = 2421

Games - Test 4 = 1369

Sound - Test 5 = 0709

FINAL SCORE = 1535
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Michaelr219:
i completely agree, i just think he misconstrued my words and it snowballed from there. i did this test with the vs benchmark and to be honest, my phone seems to switch as fast as yours does on those youtube videos. my score was 1680 or so... but that was on mute :rolleyes: which brings me to my next point. how accurate is that... because i dont ever feel like my phone is ever any faster on mute lol.

i can think of a few differences that ppl need to do immediately that have helped me... i feel like i have one of the fastest phones out there, only because i keep testing roms and looking for fast performance and processing.

#1

i would say that the best response ive had is switching to sleuth's new wm6.1 rom. there is a very noticable video response.

#2

try not to change the font/file filter cache settings more than once, if at all. Ive noticed that if you play with them, the rom will actually lose performance.

set them to the max... install custel mobile crack or sleuth turbo and then leave it alone

#3

the biggest thing ive noticed is that if i have a minimal rom and only install what i use, the faster it is...

hope this helps someone... and sorry if this doesnt make much sense, it 630 and i havent had my coffee yet
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
Partly agree :) There is hope ... for sure. There are genius people out there.

There will be coming new devices which might have similiar hardware (from HTC) that has this drivers ... and there are some knowledgeable users that might be able to use it in the Kaiser.

Who knows???

If you dont know for sure, why give up???

Pointless, because there are a lot of type of users.

- User who switch the sound off

- User who likes to play games (me!)

- User who likes to watch movies (me!)

- User who likes to use PIE

- User who likes to use Opera Mini

- User who likes to use <insert_other_browser>

- User who brave enough to install custom ROM (not me!)

- User who likes to <insert_something_here>

- User who does NOT use sliding keyboard!!!

- User who does NOT like to <insert_something_here>

And dont forget combination of them ... :)

See?

First you must compare the user type, and then the device among them!

Got that?

- I will be happy if I can enjoy playing games such as K-Rally, Resco Guardian, Skyfore / Reloaded, etc. with acceptable speed / fps with SOUND ON using MY STYLUS to control the games !

This is not asking too much because I have no problem with my very old HTC Magician for example.

But Kaiser? Nah ... too slow for this. Sound on + stylus movement should scare your Kaiser already hehehehehe.

Of course there are difference!

But you forgot something! Type of user.

See above.

Yeah rite ... this is our hope :)

So again, having high score 1700 does not mean a user will satisfy with his/her usage pattern!

Me too! I have no problem with that swapping thingie.

I have no problem with sliding out keyboard.

But still, my Kaiser cannot play the above games with acceptable speed.

PS: I know, next thing you will say "STOP PLAYING GAMES!!!! KAISER IS A BUSINESS PHONE!" .... lol ...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] MirrorminD:
Sorry for the vague response

USA

Cingular

AT&T Stock ROM

TILT

it doesnt seem to run that bad. The worse is going from landscape to portrait that takes time (seconds) and also if i am in landscape and go to messages then start typing on the keyboard after a few letters it will go back to the today screen until i hit the message button again
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Michaelr219:
it wont do these things with a cooked rom... i know, its a scary thought... but you can always go back to stock. do some homework on how to do it... and youll thank yourself.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Cavey.co.uk:
It's very relevant.

For a benchmark test to return different results depending on whether a speaker is turned on or off is quite alarming. It suggests that turning the sound off doesn't just turn off the speaker, it actually stops the sound from being processed.

This means that for any comparison between one persons device and another persons, they have to be running like-for-like on this level as well as disabling background applications etc...

If you are going to argue either for or against something, you have to present hard evidence and account for all variables. To do otherwise would be scientific. However, now the difference has been established it doesn't need to be discussed any more, just noted when reporting results.

Is there a way to test the older hardware with support for things like WM5/WM6 ? As far as I was aware, older phones had battery maintained RAM which I would guess would speed them down somewhat.

Specifically, what phones are we considering (Make/Model/ROM/Sound State/etc...) and what results did they return?

Mine changes in an instant, THEN it redraws the screen. I consider it to have changed completely when it finishes redrawing, others might consider the first change to be the switch.

I would therefore suggest that while there is something which could be perception based we can argue until we are blue in the face without coming to the correct conclusion. We actually need to find proof that what people are talking about is the same as other people are talking about.

And I am hoping people don't think I am complaining or defending - I like it as it is. Sure it would be great if it was faster, but it isn't and I am just trying to report my observations so that people can compare.

Ok... and the rest of the details please. Make/Model/ROM/Sound State/Added Applications/etc.... It's useless without context.

This is why you use benchmark software, to try and remove the user from the equation (comes back to the perception argument). You then have to find out (from the user) what they have done to the phone in order to try and spot a trend between their results, their intended use, their opinion of the device and the state of the phone.

And I wont put a new ROM on this in case it gets worse than it is. At the moment it is fine for me. If I had a spare phone I would play with it, but I can't afford that :(

These posts are getting too long and taking too long to write...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
How refeshing... a thread where the majority of people are looking forward and sharing views and knowledge...

Anyway, I am too busy to manage a full on research project, but am happy to collate the results into a spreadsheet once we have a few more. I am already expecting it to say ATT devices/roms are the slowest though.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Eric29:
Graphics Test 1 1258

Others Test 2 1975

JPEG Test 3 2647

Games Test 4 1549

Sound Test 5 0574

Final Score: 1600

ATT Tilt, hardspl installed (to unlock phone), original ROM, activesync running, few apps installed, all to the storage card

sound off
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hx4700 Killer:
Graphics: 1099

Others: 1707

Jpeg: 2300

Games: 1300

Sound: 0667

Final: 1414

AT&T Tilt, USA, Stock Rom, Sound On
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Michaelr219:
im specifically referring to the processor and chipsets of other phones, ie the samsung processor in the hermes, or omap, and the way they were able to scale video more efficiently.

the roms increased performance dramatically on older devices, but they have less memory, so this might vary certain results when it comes to benchmarking.

but visually, these older phones could squeeze better touch feedback, as well as higher fps when game or watching video. i dont think the relevance is going to go any further unless you plan to pin point exactly what is slowing down or speeding up the device. either way, the phone is still missing something, 1700 is the highest mark received on the benchmark app and the phone should be getting wayy higher than this. i mean, if you skip back a few pages, youll see the hermes getting similar marks as the tilt. this shouldnt be the case. with the talent that comes to this site... im sure if something WERENT missing and it was a rom or app issue. one of the cooks like custel, dutty, sleuth etc, alex, wouldve figured it out by now.

the underlying truth here is, the capabilities of our chip and phone are unknown as of yet. which is why we cant change the pagepool, overclock, or use accelerated graphics... :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
I am looking at the results right now and whilst I agree that we aren't turning lead into gold, it is obvious that the rom cooks claims re speeds are valid.

The Dutty and Shaps roms are fastest - although the o2 rom seems to be holding its own.

Once we have more data, we can see if we test specifics ensuring as level a playing field as possible.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 246810:
Looks like you may be onto something there.

I just did the benchmark test: I'm running T mobiles stock rom with the sound on.

Graphics- Test 1- 1035

Others- Test 2- 1580

JPEG- Test 3- 2231

Games- Test 4- 1203

Sound- Test 5- 0728

Final score- 1355

Not as high as I'd like. I still am using the stock rom and haven't got half the amount of applications that some users have on their Kaiser, yet my score is pretty poor. Life isn't fair....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Antal:
Hi All, here are my results.. Decided to take four tests after reading all the remarks here.

1- Hooked to my laptop, activesync active.

2- Standalone, after a fresh soft reset

3- Standalone, but removed the microsd

4- Standalone, sound off

Currently running Schaps 4.31, with PI8, Opera 8.65, Tomtom and batterystatus.. All installed to the device.

Will try on some other rom later this weekend...

Test 1 1090/1133/1159/1325

Test 2 1830/2027/2056/2304

Test 3 2244/2437/2433/2747

Test 4 1300/1367/1409/1635

Test 5 0681/0803/0611/0544

Final 1429/1553/1533/1711

With sound off, all scores go up dramatically, but sound drops bigtime..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Septastrum:
1282 with sound on :(

Stock T-Mobile ROM, with no memory card, just google maps, the benchmarking program and another extremely small game that isn't in the memory.

Full test results

Sound On / - / Sound Off

Test 1: 1048 / - / 1198

Test 2: 1424 / - / 1661

Test 3: 2041 / - / 2408

Test 4: 1195 / - / 1468

Test 5: 0702 / - / 0595

Total: 1282 / - / 1466

Luckily I normally have it just on vibrate, but still it's not great comparing to other people's. It does have a noticeable lag but I've half gotten used to it, check here quite frequently to see if there are new drivers or anything. I'm not really sure how to put custom ROMs on. Read about it but (no offense intended) the guides aren't terribly easy to follow - there is a lot of information out there but no '10 steps for beginners', lol. Starts going into detail about radio roms or something and I just glaze over.

Only registered (bit of a lurker) to post up my abysmal results. I don't have tonnes of crap installed though, just google maps. (I thought it came with tomtom but apparently not :p).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] TommyCP:
A bit of topic, but I can't resist: my Wizard can swap to landscape in half a second whilst running Opera Mini.

By the way, where's Picadilly Circus? Just so I know where NOT to go. :p
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Steve-C:
1460, stock o2 ROM, I do have installed apps, but they were all killed after a soft reset and the phone was off but sound on.

Thanks for starting this thread I think it is useful to compare results and see if there is any consistent theme that shows up. I'll try it again later with no sound just for comparison.

FWIW, I'm also a happy user of this device, and have had several PDA's in the past (including the stupid IPAQ 5450, that lost everything and hard reset itself whenever if ran out of battey. Flash memory, what a great thing!).

Wish the ranters and ravers would spend less time flaming and shooting people down, and more making constructive posts!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] snooginsguy:
Here you go, Stock Tilt w/o AT&T bloatware:

Sound Off

test 1: 1289

Test 2: 2040

Test 3: 2788

Test 4: 1613

Test 5: 0546

Total: 1655

Sound On:

test 1: 1123

Test 2: 1732

test 3: 2460

Test 4: 1358

Test 5: 0633

Total: 1461

Funny thing, I am totally satisfied with my tilt's performance, and I typically have sound on. So, even though I'm about average, I can't complain.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] etnies:
ouch.

stock att rom..

1015

1737

2041

1211

0709

------

1342
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Ok now, why the hell is sound processing taking so much resources? I mean it's not exactly 5.1 surround sounds, it's a stupid mono tiny speaker.. shouldn't take any processing at all for that kind of output.

Maybe it's configured to provide a higher quality sound which then just gets crumped into that tiny speaker? It should be configured to create sound of a quality that speaker can produce, otherwise its a waste of resources.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Steve-C:
Maybe it's processing to the level produced by an external speaker, eg if you have a usb-3.5mm jack or headphones plugged in, the thing does function pretty well? I would bet there is no way the device can tell if it's on an external (wired) connection or internal speaker. Could you imagine the posts if the quality through headphones was the same as through the built-in speaker?!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Septastrum:
Unfortunately DarkDvr I suspect we may never find out. Just from looking on here it looks like there have been a spate of problems. I was never completely satisfied with my o2 wizard which was slow too, and read it was because it was underpowered. I get this which is much more powerful and still... performance issues.

The phone is a great feat of technology, but I'm coming to the grim realisation it's probably not (for mainstream users) a great everyday phone but rather a 'tech toy' for gadget lovers that you can tinker with - yes if there are particular tasks it can do that's good - but it doesn't do the 'regular' stuff perfectly and there is limited support either by phone providers or the manufacturers. Part of the problem being, once you sell a phone it's already gone to the customer and you can't just download a patch like you can for a game, it needs the firmware rewriting to it and for the 'average' person that's not a trivial job. (Most guys here are very capable so it may not seem too bad)

Not having a go, just saying in general I think it targets a different market to some phones, and as such may not always run perfectly (think linux as a PC OS too - ironic as this is a WM product).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gman8966:
My father just replaced his old HTC Apache with a new one from the warranty and this morning I flashed WM6 on it. I was amazed that some aspects of the phone are faster than my brand new Kaiser! Pulling out the keyboard, the screen switches much faster, and in general the apache just seems much snappier, doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the Kaiser, but was fast.

For some reason, which I have yet to figure out, my phone keeps freezing every so often for 5 or 6 seconds at a time, on WM6.1 beta and even Dutty's v4 RTM which I just flashed back onto it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikeer:
Unwired4,

I was just wondering - does your Kaiser run TomTom fine or does it lag like in the video? Sorry if you posted the answer earlier, still havent read pages 7-10.

It seems that some people have snappy landscape/portrait switching, some have snappy TomTom, some have both, some have neither. You also mentioned that you are running Dutty's ROM v3, which would probably mean that the ROM doesnt really affect performance with these particular issues. After all, we are all running same ROMs and have different performance with switching and TomTom. Then it must involve hardware or series or something like that. Mine is made in Taiwan, has some suspicious XT03 (series?) next to the serial number, and has some date and EU(rope) printed by the camera, don't know if this is useful.

I have also posted a video response to your YouTube video (sorry for bad quality, I too have an old Sony camera), which shows how long it takes me to switch modes and also the touchscreen and PIE bugs just to top it off :)

In the video I am running the stock russian ROM, with HardSPL and custom Splash (just another reason for trolls to say that it's all my fault), with sound turned off and vibro mode on, and I also had PIE running in background and Wi-Fi turned on.

I was also thinking about creating a DB with web GUI and hosting it alongside my site, just to collect and provide statistical data - how many people have TomTom problems, how many have switching problems, what ROM they are running and what their benchmarks are, preferably using some unified benchmarking system, for example, after a soft reset with all the extra apps killed and with sound on. What do you think about that idea?

Oh and PS:

I DO know that the drivers are missing/underperforming, and getting the drivers will make the device faster, but still - compare the videos! Even if we don't get the drivers, I know I would want my Kaiser to work at least that fast!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Cavey.co.uk:
I think he wanted to see a video of it - I don't remember my Wizard managing such things. What I do remember was the Hermes being a vast improvement.

And Picadilly Circus is in London UK.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mtbjoe:
Installed on my 4GB storage card running Dutty's v4RTM, stand alone in vibrate mode.

Test1 1255

Test2 2332

Test3 2848

Test4 1612

Test5 0541

Total 1717
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cushcalc:
Storage card causing memory reduction

Quote:

Originally Posted by grizzley

I have scratched my head about this before too. I tested this last night and if you take the card OUT, you will see a BIG increase in your memory.

My feeling is that maybe if you have shortcuts on the phone TO those apps on the card, at boot time, the phone reads all of those and maybe that is what does it? Or 1 or 2 of those apps on the card load (somehow) on the boot up.

I hope I explained that correctly :eek:

I remember in the Wizard forums discussions about using a 2GB or 4GB storage card would cause a decrease in your program memory - more memory is required to catalog and access the card I think
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
Mikeer - I dont use tomtom I use copilot - which runs fine (but I dont think its a fair comparison). I saw your video and the switching IS drastically slower on yours. I just tested mine with wifi on and pie running and it's maybe 5% slower than without them active - but its still quicker than yours. I dont know enough about model serial numbers yet to comment about whether some hardware is faster than others.

Jgmdean - pretty much agree with everything you say - whilst we aren't conducting scientifically safe testing, I think the results will show the range of speeds. Those with the lowest scores will hopefully take some ideas from this thread and speed up their devices. I also give mine a B+ but thats only because I am sure that there will be a better device along in the next year or so.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 246810:
If this is true, then I dread to see what what my device memory will be like when I buy the 32GB memory card in April....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] milujciesie:
What are those tests?

Where do you get these numbers from? I also want to do the test.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] TommyCP:
Alright, here is a video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vq5fr1GElM

About half a second after the screen rotation you can see a short flash in the upper and lower part of the screen. This is a due to a redraw of these parts of the screen, however, in the time between the rotation and this redraw, navigating/scrolling does work (albeit with a slight delay).

As my own Kaiser still has not been delivered, I haven't been able to test how fast screen rotation in Opera Mini is with this device. So I'm asking you guys, is the screen rotation in Opera Mini any different on the Kaiser?

BTW, for those interested, I'm running the Hungarian T-Mobile WM5 AKU 3.3 WWE ROM.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
Web browsing ands switching in Opera Mini: The reaction time on mine is instant. However, the screen first appears inn landscape but still formatted as per the porrait page (ie only taking 60% of the width of the screen. Reloading the page and changing it to landscape full width takes about 1 second.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
See my sig.