yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ewingr:
This has been interesting. When I first tried to install, I tried to install on SD card as several here are saying they install everything there. Although some programs I have specifically say to NOT do that. Anyway, the Benchmark program wouldn't install, and it came up with a couple messages: one was that installing on the SD care would likely make the phone unstable, the other was that I didn't have enough storage. My storage is not large, around 22MB, but I'd think it should install.

I just installed from a different computer and put it on device memory.

Some more interesting info: I have Memmaid on the device, so I did the optimize for Memory, then the Optimize for Speed, and neither made any difference in memory availble.

My memory stats are (by the way, installing Benchmark on device card used 8MB of memory):

Storage: Total 124.79 Available: 14.05

Program: Total: 101.38 Available: 57.38

Here is my first test results, with Memmaid set to Extreme Memory:

Test 1 - 1141

Test 2 - 1627

Test 3 - 2255

Test 4 - 1301

Test 5 - 0611

Final Score - 1387

Here is the Benchmark after running Memmaid for Extreme Speed optimization:

Test 1 - 1140

Test 2 - 2248

Test 3 - 2789

Test 4 - 1608

Test 5 - 0525

Final Score - 1662

FYI..I have a lot of crap on this thing. Oh, I should say I have a lot of software installed. I have never gotten rid of 'bloatware', and I have installed quite a bit of stuff, much of which has been removed, as I experimented with my new toy. I suspect I'll need to do a hard reset one of these days (I dread that, as resetting up all the stuff I have will be a chore).

Among things installed are:

MS Voice Command

SBP Shell

SPB Weather

SPB Plus

AE Buttons

HTC Home Screen

TomTom

Microsoft LIve

Google Maps

Screen Capture

Total Commander

TCPMP

WiFiFoFum

MemMaid

HTC Album

Slither's Cube

NetRemote

Kaiser Tweak

HTC Comm Manager

HTC Audio

Commontime mNotes

BT Audio

PTT Buttom Remap Tweak

MoDaCo NoData

Sprite Backup (to PC)

Wireless Today Plugin

Having fun...

Oh...I just uninstalled the Benchmark, and interestingly I have more storage than I had before. IT is at 26.52mb now, and before installing it it was at 22.07MB.

[EDIT]

Having just read back trough the threads, I' add, above tests were with Sound OFF, Blue Tooth on.

I did one one with Sound ON, Blue Tooth On, Hooked to PC with Active Synch, and synch happening (still optimized for 'Max Speed').

Test 1 - 1016

Test 2 - 1555

Test 3 - 2025

Test 4 - 1170

Test 5 - 0789

Final Score - 1311

Interestingly, same as above and NOT synchronizing, but I had File Explorer open (forget to close it):

Test 1 - 0982

Test 2 - 1472

Test 3 - 1986

Test 4 - 1134

Test 5 - 0744

Final Score - 1263

And finally, wiht it disconnected from computer, in Airplane Mode, No apps running, sound off, freshly reset:

Test 1 - 1244

Test 2 - 2166

Test 3 - 2532

Test 4 - 1496

Test 5 - 0579

Final Score - 1603

I expected this last one to beat the second test above, which was 1662. I know I has some things on during that one. Oh anyway, it was fun. I'm going to ininstall the Benchmark again.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] swiftgs:
Re

strange things happening with my kaiser....

I've got my kaiser back from reparation yesterday, and notice some strange things. They've replaced the mainboard (i guess since i've got a new imei number) and things are running lotsssssss faster.

for exampel:

PIE, scrolls normal (didn't install the fix)

Tomtom, great refresh rate and runs smooth all the time (western europe map)

sliding goes much faster (near instantly)

STRANGEST THING: divx runs smooth without resizing!!! 608x258...

So when I tried a test with multitasking, opening 20 different programs at the same tame, running tomtom still without any lag, sliding takes longer now.

Before my tytn was also as slow as hell, so is there any difference in hardware versions, because the rom date is still the same (stock HTC rom NL)?????
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Cavey.co.uk:
* Cavey makes note to avoid Picadilly Circus

That's faster than I remember my Wizard going (and my Dad's now using it, so I can't get it out and see if mine actually goes at the same speed) and better than my Hermes (which tended to mess up the resizing).

If I time it, it seems to take 2.1 seconds up to the title bar re-draw. Doing the same thing on my Kaiser finishes its redraw in about 2.1 seconds, but it goes white and redraws the whole screen, not just the title bars, so (depending on what you are measuring) the Wizard is faster.

HOWEVER, I don't feel I can draw true conclusions from this test (yet). Your wizard is running on WM5 with which JRE? My Hermes had a different JRE to my Wizard and the Wizard had the same JRE as my Kaiser, but different versions. Different versions = different "features" and adds another layer of complications beyond the dfferent OS and hardware.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mike19722:
???slow???

Aaaaaaaa.......No....not slow.......sorry:cool:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
Ooops! I wonder if what some of us have been saying for a long time may be coming out of the woodwork here...

I wonder if Beta (or cut-down, ie. minus cameras and other bits..) versions of the 'Kaiser' were bought by certain companies so they could sell CHEAP units (ie. AT&T and other vendors?).

We ALL know that we have been told we are missing the drivers for the D3D accel, but WHAT IF, some are even having a HARDWARE disable that compounds this?? Certain lawsuits in the US and that also spilled around the world at the time of the launch of this device may have prompted the Telecom vendors to request units that have all the 'Legally Questionable' Hardware sections, physically disabled to get around their own legal departments? (and doesn't anyone think it strange that Qualcomm have stopped ALL access to their data for this device? EVEN MANUFACTURERS!!!) some may have decided to take Beta units without warranty to 'beat the other guy to the post' in getting the device out!

Are we SURE HTC is at fault??? We really want to ask the vendors what deal they took on first...

AND BEFORE ANYONE SAYS IT...I AM NOT, IN ANY WAY ASSOCIATED WITH HTC...as stated before...

It could be that the reason HTC is not worried about any lawsuits because many of us are working from a misconception!

The massively different opinions about this device (especially the -V's from the US) seem to confirm this..

I, and I am sure Unwired4 also, have been totally baffled by the way some people say the device is TOTALLY terrible, it does not seem to be the case for us. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Steve-C:
Your not the only one baffled Farsquidge! I remember what happened whilst eagerly awaiting the launch of the Kaiser as the o2 Stellar. Many posters at the time were wondering why it was taking o2 so long to launch the device. Several posters said that it was to do with o2 taking longer to develop the device and get it through testing which caused the launch date to reach a TBC state at one point (some saying it would be Q1 or Q2 of 2008 before it came out). Since I am happy with my device, I think I have seen another o2 user happy, and no unhappy ones that I know of...could o2 have been deliberately delaying the launch until they got a device working better than models from other sources (eg AT&T) that were launched earlier? It might have been a marketing ploy because they were launching the iPhone, but with the hype they (and the entire world) gave that phone, and the quiet release of the Stellar I don't think iPhone sales would have been effected.

I think the arguament for an inferior earlier version is at the very least possible...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] TommyCP:
I use Esmertec Jbed, build ID 20070802.2.1 (which seems to be most popular JRE around here).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chrisnash:
In have a 6gb sandisk card with no apps installed on it, just cached pages from my rss reader (which doesnt have a today plug-in) and just by popping the card out I reduce the running memory from 65% to 56%. and it goes straight back up to 65% as soon as I put it back in.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chrisnash:
from soft reset its runs at 47% with card in and 38% with card out. No apps installed on the card.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kwickone:
Adding my numbers to the fray. Running Alex's v5 Lite ROM with most apps in main memory.

Test 1 (battery power, sound on)

1143

1551

2469

1385

871

Total: 1483

Test 2 (powered via USB, no sound)

1284

2198

2733

1569

715

Total: 1699

Huge diff with no sound, as has been reported here.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
So from wishing that this rom would help others... I am now wondering why my device isnt as fat as some...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Steve-C:
o2 Stellar varient, everything stock running pocket informant, phone alarm, SBSH weather and ilauncher and wizbar advance 3

Ok sound on, Kaiser running normally:

Test 1 1096

Test 2 1965

Test 3 2262

Test 4 1308

Test 5 0670

Overall 1450

And with the sound off, flight mode, everything disabled (including all today plugins) and folowing a softrest with no memory card inserted

Test 1 1274

Test 2 2314

Test 3 2601

Test 4 1557

Test 5 0571

Overall 1663

Not as fast as others when "optimised", a lot quicker than some when running normally. Shows having the sound off helps, but I'm more interested in why some people are getting around half the result than me in "normal" mode. Also interesting that my results seem about average for the higher end of the results scale. Wonder why some people are getting overall results somewhere below 1000? Suggests there could be something more to this than just video drivers...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joshuah82:
I'd be curious to see what, if anything, TouchFlo does to performance too. If you touch the screen while running the benchmark with it on I'm going to guess you post really low numbers. Does it change at all with TouchFlo off?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gasman858:
Q-Mobile 1.2 (32Mb PP, Kaisertweaks cache/gdi "increased performance" settings) running on device mem.

Sound Off

Total	1713

Test1	1327

Test2	2316

Test3	2758

Test4	1628

Test5	537

Sound on

Total	1521

Test1	1135

Test2	2004

Test3	2475

Test4	1375

Test5	616

It would be nice to know what metrics these tests are measuring and how they are weighted - couldn't find the info on VSBenchmark 2007 like are available for

SBP Benchmark 1.6

tests and indices
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] axeman:
tytn2 stock, bought from sg at launch, no mods/ tweaks, apps installed are spb suite, few games, opera, bbconnect and flexmail.

get 1400 with sound & touchflo on.

may rom update/ tweak if get time and post that result too.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Sane:
Well watching that video it takes to rotate little bit over an second... Its about the same with my phone without any programs running. With programs my Kaiser draws the screen longer...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cp_kirkley:
Don't blame the rom, BLAME HTC!!! :p

I'll benchtest and post my reseults shortly.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikeer:
Well, it seems that most people get roughly 1450 with sound on and 1650-1700 with sound off and some of them have laggy devices and some don't, so the benchmark isn't really showing anything.

I believe that some serial numbers might shed some light on the problem, as it seems that the older devices are more laggy than the new ones.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tagger:
sweet

i turned on my phone , ran netfront brower for 1 minute , closed netfront, ran benchmark test and got a 940 ...................explain
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Cavey.co.uk:
As I noted before, I would guess that the lag of the device is more to do with perception rather than a specific difference between devices.

It's like trying to translate between one persons language and another, you need some basic definitions to start off with. Would someone care to define laggy? (Preferably with a video). Or would someone care to define an operation which should be common to most XDAs (so not GPS or JRE based, I'd be guessing Pocket Office, PIE or Pocket Outlook) which they consider to be particularly slow so people can video it and compare?

(Why do I feel we are gonna end up with a semi-arbitrary Moh style scale? I guess it will at least be a start, just feels a little excessive....)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikeer:
There are lots of reviews by average consumers on the Internet who state that TyTN II is awesome and that "we all should congratulate HTC on fitting so many devices in one neat package" *shrug*

Most of them have never had a WinMobile device before nor did the proper research and can't really compare it with anything, as their expectancies are quite low, so I agree with you on this point, but in the video by Unwired4 the Kaiser performs "ok" compared with my own TyTN, so I am really comparing two different devices based on my own perception of "laggy" here. You can watch both videos yourself and I think you would notice how much difference there is, which makes me hate HTC even more :/

Oh and by the way, I got into a holy war with some guy on GsmArena review section and I mentioned the Magician vs TyTNii TomTom video, and he said that his TyTN performs more like the Magician, while mine performs just like the TyTN in the video, and unless he's a lying HTC spy, then we have two differently performing devices. After all, the lack of drivers couldn't have slowed down the GUI that much, my old h2210 (which I mention in every post) running an old PXA260 at stock 400 mHz has a much smoother interface.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgmdean:
It's fractal, and probably Quantum.

What else you have running and loaded. Even with two identical kaisers with identical ROMs and Benchmark loads you'll see some variance as timing is always slightly different on a complex system, clock jitter is ever so slightly different with temperature, etc. All of which leads to different paths through code with bazillions of possible paths. Run the test twice in a row you won't get exactly the same result. Run it today and tomorrow with the same setup after a soft reset and you'll get slightly different results. In statistics speak: you can't control for or correct for enough variables to show variations that are the same order of magnitude as the noise. In sarcastic speak: While the members of this board may frequently act like an infinite number of monkeys, they aren't really.

You did read and understand my longer post earlier in this thread, right? ;)

I'm sure your nearest library/bookstore/warez cache will have a text on software testing methodology, it'll be a good cure for insomnia if you don't believe the above! :eek:

Or... Just blame sun spots, or marsh gas, or Venus, or... "Global Warming" is wired and "El Nino" has fallen out of favor/funding... ;)

We used to just say "phase of the moon", but that brings the astrology nuts out of the woodwork... <sigh> :D

Excuse me while I pine for the days when computers were simple enough not to be completely in the realm of Chaos Theory.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own set of facts."

James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] snooginsguy:
It's gotta be global warming! Let's get Al Gore on the case, he'll shake things up over at HTC...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
Yeah I did actually. My post was slightly tongue in cheek - going from having a fast Kaiser to not having the "fastest Kaiser" was the root cause!

Anyway, I do still believe that the people most dis-satisfied with their devices performance (particularly those who have owned WM devices before and thus have their own benchmark) are scoring 1300's and those happiest are socring 1600's.

I know that we are not being as clinical as we could be, but the tests to date seem to bear that out.

So - options if you have a slow device:

1) Try flashing a cooked rom. It really isnt as scary as some make out.

2) turn the sound off

3) tweak your device to best performance

3) Take it back to the retailer and demand your money back. (Oh and take your magician/hermes with you plus your lawyer and show them the difference)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgmdean:
Heh. I've been told that I tend to lecture on clock building when all someone asked was the time... :o

I'd ask everyone who's having switching delays and/or lower range scores to check if ActivSync is running. QuickMenu (Included in at least Dutty's ROMs or installable cab) has a menu option to close ActivSync when the PC disconnects. Activsync is a resource hog even when it's not connected and doesn't sleep well. Combine that with Microsoft's less-than-stellar process scheduling and this could be an explanation.

James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikeer:
I actually got 1710 or something on my first bench with the sound off and a few apps running in the background, and I am completely dissatisfied with my Kaiser.

Another test with sound off and after a soft reset:

Test1 - 1316

Test2 - 2336

Test3 - 2800

Test4 - 1625

Test5 - 0533

FINAL - 1722

Another test wit the sound on and after a soft reset:

Test1 - 1097

Test2 - 2048

Test3 - 2480

Test4 - 1427

Test5 - 0614

FINAL - 1533

So according to the benchmark, I should be happy to have "a powerhouse of a device". I'm not.

I have tried ROMs by Dutty and just the basic ROM by Alex and a few slightly modified ROMs by myself, but nothing really changed anything. And I can not return it because it was imported from overseas D:

Oh and ActiveSync is not running, still the same lag. Maybe a little bit faster than before killing it/soft reset, but still is quite slow.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] swiftgs:
Re

I also run a benchmark.... 1741 with sound off. But can someone please explain what I can do with this...

ok, as posted before my kaiser is a lot faster since it's back from reparation (new motherboard)... but still what is the difference between 1741 & 1650, I can hardly imagine someone seeing the difference between it in real life...

PS. my new kaiser got the following specs:

rom: 1.56.404.6

radio: 1.27.12.32

protocol: 22.45.88.07H

windows mobile 6 proffesional CE 5.2.16.20 build 18125.0.4.2

modelnr.:Kaiser

platform: pocketpc
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chuby007:
My tests

ok I have dutty V3 rom, loaded with stuff, activesync running, other background process, eveerything loaded to my main memory ( since I haven't got the microsd yet ), sound on, since I try to save battery 2 tests ran with the screen off, and I have SBP pocket plus, and tons of stuff... put calligrapher there

my results:

Graphics test1 = 1119

Others = 1392

JPEG = 2163

Games = 1270

Sound = 0731

FINAL SCORE = 1335

Ok now without all the bloatware.. no sound, plane mode, the phone deactivated all gone!

Graphics test1 = 1203

Others = 2257

JPEG = 2677

Games = 1584

Sound = 0541

FINAL SCORE = 1653

interesting how the sound score went LOWER from 0731 to 0541 :eek:

now the ULTIMATE test, the same as before, but I will let the screen die at the start of the process ( 1 minute aproximately )

Graphics test1 = 1197

Others = 1416

JPEG = 1811

Games = 0996

Sound = 0819

FINAL SCORE = 1247 :eek:

well those are my results, so we can use the screen with confidence, it will not make the kaiser slower =) !

FINAL SCORE = 1653
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
No, unwired4 will not understand this (or maybe he does not want to understand).

Or he still does not get the concept of benchmarking ...

Or usage pattern ...

Or ...

He is trying to match something qualitative (happiness) with quantitative (benchmark score) ... *sigh*

I am happy ... Yes! Your benchmark score must be around 1600!

No, I am not happy, my benchmark score is more than 1700!

Dude, I am happy even my benchmark score is around 1300, this is my first PPC :) Love it!

Hei, my benchmark is 1599, should I be happy? No?

How about 1400? 1450? 1500?

Errr ... if you score 1500 and you use sound, then you should be happy :)

God no! I got 1400 but I let the ActiveSync on, should I happy? Yes, maybe!

I got 1800! Super duper fantastic! But I switched everything off :)

Listen, I got 1200, but I am happy because I put the Kaiser in standby all the time, download email every minute, check weather every minute, check stocks, do this do that. This device is amazing!

Arrggh!!! I am happy! I am happy!!!!

No you should not! Because your benchmark is below 1600!

:) ... *enough* ... back to work now :P
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
And that... is the exact point of this thread. Hundreds of members are posting their qualitative opinions about their kaisers all over the forum. This thread is an attempt to compare those opinions with some kind of device speed tests so that we can get a handle on those opinions and their validity.

You must be feeling really bad that you were conned into buying a Kaiser. I recommend you sell yours on ebay before your own posts on here devalue it any further. Then you could buy a nice shiny fast n95.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikeer:
"That's not the issue here, Dude! I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude! And that line you do not..."

Seriously, though, there is clearly some sort of a difference between our devices, but the benchmark is not showing that :/

I still believe that the happiness is linked to the series number :P

I wish I sold mine before I started spreading the word on wiki :/

Now the prices on eBay dropped to $700 and I paid much more than that, and it's also used and has a cyrillic keyboard, so it's probably worth even less. I just wish I waited for Asus P750, it has the good ole' Marvell PXA270M.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] shmilson:
My Results

Have a TyTN II, running original ROM:

ROM :1.81.415.4WWE

ROM date : 10/29/07

Radio version : 1.27.15.32

Protocol version : 25.51.88.13H

Ran benchmark installed on the SD card and got this results:

Graphics Test 1 : 1193

Others Test 2 : 2040

JPEG Test 3: 2544

Games Test 4: 1427

Sound Test 5: 0850

FINAL SCORE: 1610
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
The thing is, you cannot validate that.

You cannot justify the happiness with the benchmark score.

As already pointed by several users (they got 1700 and still not happy).

See?

What's the point then?

Why should I sell it?

I can still use this crappy thing until I found a new replacement :)

I really dont care about devaluation, should I?

Thanks for your recommendation btw :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
I am so sorry. I thought your dis-satisfaction with life stemmed from those robber-barons at HTC defrauding you over your kaiser purchase. Now I realise that your issues are much more deep seated than that.

Unless you have taken all of the results from this thread, then your comments are worthless. I will be looking at the trend - which already shows that most "unhappy" owners score under 1400 and most "happy" users score 1600 plus.

In the meantime, your posts are detracting from the issue at hand. I left the classaction thread as users were "unhappy" at my questioning their posts so I would suggest you do the same with this thread. Perhaps you could spend some time assisting chainfire in finding a lawyer in the US who thinks that the classaction has a hope in hell of making it to court.