yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
Steve, what you tried to do with that video is deceive people, that's why you're getting this kind of response. But yeah, if it makes you feel better, the whole 7000 of us are having a case of mass delusion. No poor performance here, move along.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Steve-C:
Well, actually I will. Because I the only lag I get is when opening Microsoft Reader, or Pocket Informant. The fact that the lil busy icon pops up at the same time, makes me think this is because the Kaiser is busy loading the program, not because of driver issues. Reader is a hell of a lot quicker on the Kaiser than any other PPC I've owned.

Lag surfing contacts? Nope, though once I get past the second page and that big letter thing pops up, that is a bit slow. The again maybe it was designed that way to stop you going past the letter you want.

Touch screen. Spot on! Though using the Resco On-Screen Keyboard is a bit slow, though I suspect its due to the keysize than anything else. Though I suppose I could try and complain that the screen isn't sensitive enough to allow my finger to use the inscreen keyboard where the keys are barely bigger than the head of a stylus. Hang on! I've got a great idea for a CLASS ACTION here!

The only lag I get is in Microsoft Reader, reading an ebook whilst connected to activesync. I suspect this may be to do with me using a MICROSOFT application, that is writing to a MICROSOFT generated file on a MICROSOFT operating system whilst connected to a MICROSOFT program on a laptop running MICROSOFT Windows XP trying to access that same file (since it's changed) and sync it with the version on the laptop. You may have noticed I that not one of the above applications, files, or OS are from HTC, however your right, that does give me grounds to moan about how craply HTC have implemented it...

I even once broke a HP Ipaq dropping it 10-15cm onto a soft carpet (wouldn't power up after), my Kaiser I have dropped 1/2 a metre onto concrete, and its fine (apart from a scratch).

Please, since you are making these claims that the Kaiser is little better than a paper weight, post videos of it!

This was supposed to be a happy thread, for happy users. Why are all these people in here moaning about how crappy the Kaiser is? Would you like it if we came over to the class action thread and started telling you there was no issue? Yes, Yes freedom of speach and all that, but if a poster wants to start a thread for people who don't want to moan and just say they are happy with the device, can't you leave us in peace? We are happy, you are not, so you wasted a gazzillion bucks on a papertweight and we are very happy with our premium product. :D:cool:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mrmega:
I posted my experience in this thread because Mike the moderator asked for feedback. Now start telling us how a moderator is wrong, that will be perfectly in line with your attitude in this thread. :rolleyes:

I suppose you never considered that different users can have different performance experiences with the same type/brand of equipment did you. Oh wait, your take on things might be the only valid one!:eek:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Steve-C:
What I did, was show you I wasn't having the issue.

That video originated from another thread where a poster showed the jerky, laggy, jumpy actions of his PIE on a webpage, and was blaming it soley on the Kaisers drivers. I made the video to say this is what I use my Kaiser for, PIE seems fine to me and I don't understand the issue. I was then told by a more knowledgable person that the OP was actually showing the PIE bug, nothing to do with the drivers.

No 7,000 of you are not having a case of mass delusion. Just as the people like me are not attempting to decieve. That video shows that the Kaiser will play a video happily if its at the right bit rate. It shows that if you use Opera not PIE, then your browsing experience is everything you would want. An outsider looking in would probably think that the Kaiser can't play any videos, would struggle loading the homepage of Google, has issues with bluetooth, telephony, GPS, would just about handle sat-nav if you waited 6 months for it to get a signal lock and only wanted voice guidance with NO graphics and you could forget about playing solitaire on it.

Frankly if I was a visitor and this forum was listed under the <insert name of any other PDA phone here> heading, I would thank every god that ever existed that I had bought a Kaiser. All the replies to my post have totally dismissed the fact that the Kaiser will play videos, just not high bit rate ones, will surf the net happily once you fix the PIE bug and stick to text based sites etc, etc. No the device isn't perfect, but I freely admit that I make compromises and use other software to get the device to do what I want. The people who have issues with not being able to play high bit rate videos, and surf graphic intensive sites don't. Neither do they conceed that a stock Today screen is fine, they want it to be just as "snappy" whilst cramming in every single plugin they can find. Isn't the person who posted the video showing the devices changing from portrate to landscape deceiving us without telling us what the devices are running, what plugins they have, and not comparing like for like? It was asked that we show a device running "snappy". I did that, nobody said that it had to be running a certain software in a certain way. Please, somebody show me a Kaiser running an optimised video, or running Opera and it not being "snappy" and then I will conceed there is a problem.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Steve-C:
For what it's worth, here are mine

Clicky

ROM Version 1.82.206.1

ROM Date 10/04/07

Radio Version 1.27.12.32

Protocol Version 22.45.88.07H
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] somynex:
sorry but i have to disagree. if some of us say or post videos that our unit is working fine, there's no need to call us deceitful.

i don't think any of us, or anyone for that matter, is denying that a good number of people are having issues with their units. basically,

1) people with working units aren't going to go all ballistic and flood the forum with video posts of a unit that's working as it should be. that's just stupid.

2) when there is a thread on a problem, people with working units also don't go ballistic and start posting replies and videos on how their units are working fine. that's not just stupid, it'd also be acting like a prick. usually one would expect helpful responses on how to fix things in threads on problems. someone with a working unit, that doesn't have anything helpful on a solution to a problem, will probably just stay out of that thread. simple as.

i don't think any of the people with good experiences in the happy thread are denying that there are people facing real problems with their units. i also don't think any of us are against getting better drivers or improved performance. in fact, many of us are probably signed up to the petition also. but what seems to be happening is that some people are just starting to blanket blame every problem (some self-inflicted, some unrelated) they have with their unit on video drivers and HTC (i.e.how the PIE scrolling video was used to represent the graphics driver issue for a time). that doesn't help solve any problems.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] michalopoulosgk:
I do fully agree with this statement. I get my email in Microsoft Outlook with html, I have instant access to all my Contacts (Friendly Fingers helped a lot), camera is OK but I rarely use it, could be better but not a big deal. IE and (even better) Opera mini let me surf the web, I have a slew of small programs (solitaire is one I play the most) and I can make most telephone calls with two finger strokes. Most important (compared to any Blackberry) I can take notes in Microsoft Word which I can save on the storage card! I can see all attachments in my email. And many more things.....compared to Samsung i730 and Blackberry Pearl this is by far the best phone. Youtube came out today with a new site, I opened a few, they were delivered fine.

I agree that there perhaps could be a better performance with the omitted drivers etc., but this this still the best phone out there in terms of ALL the things that it can do well. Acting like it is a terrible phone because it is not perfect is an uunrealistic exaggeration, IMO.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greenbrd:
If only it were still 2004, then everything you listed would be fine because we'd all still be in the "gee whiz" stage.

But playing low-res videos that still tear, and "sticking to text sites" is just not acceptable to a lot of people who shelled out $700+ for their device.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Blowfish64:
Wow, don't know where to start with this. First off, when you talk about the "right" bitrate, apparently you think it's ok that the "right" bitrate for the kaiser is significantly less then its predecessor the Hermes, or many other devices running lesser hardware.

As for your Opera Mini comparison, as someone mentioned above (and you apparently didn't bother to read) it runs under Java which is hardware optimized. So thank you for proving OUR point. That's how well this thing COULD run. Now if you would like to rewrite all the other programs/today-plugins/internet for us to use the hardware, be my guest. While you're at it, all 7000 of us could send you our videos and you could optimize them for the "right" bitrate for us, since you're all about compromise.

You talk about how we should compromise. The stock today screen is fine, you say. You shouldn't be browsing intensive sites, you say. Don't try to watch anything at a decent bitrate, you should just take the time to convert everything, even though the hardware could run it fine. Basically don't try to do any of the things you could do on other older devices. In short, you're just all about low expectations. You probably don't even need all the hardware in here; you're just a casual user who likes value-subtracted products. I'd try to see your side of things, but honestly you don't have a valid one. I'm sort of surprised you were able to use a computer and type your responses here in the first place. Computer screens are such a luxury after all.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
Just my opinion...(as said many times before)

I am also very happy with my TyTynII.

Whereas I agree it will be a great improvement for the HW video acceleration to be fully implemented, I do not agree with the total flaming of the unit.

As Mike has stated, we know there are variations of 'Kaiser' (its a generic term for Stock HTC TyTynII and operator HTC-P4550 units, the 'Tilt' even having visible HW changes!) also may people customise their devices with various processor intensive 'Today' app's. This COULD possibly be causing many users problems in other area's. We already know of deficiencies in scrolling and screen tap (on many HTC devices and also seen on other manufacturers units) but this 'Kaiser is the worst phone in the world' does not pan out with everyone.

Over 7000 disgruntled users is I agree, bad. But it dwindles into insignificance to the 1.75 million sales so far of the P-4550 base model !!!

I hate using analogies but If you had a pentathalete (good at many events) enter a marathon, would you expect him to be the best??

The unit was designed to be a good 'all-rounder' but to be great at everything would sort of kill future model sales don't you think?

As far as WM goes.. it's always sucked!! Let's see what happens with 6.1 but I don't expect miracles...:o

@Mike I too worry that this forum will lose it's credability as a 'developer' forum as it dwindles into a 'flame and shame' version.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Steve-C:
So go yell at Microsoft! Opera does a much better job than PIE does on the same device, so thats is clearly Microsoft doing a half arsed job at building a web browser. Which is basically the same reason that I run Opera on my laptop and not IE(whatever it is now, I stopped using it at IE5). Frankly PIE in 2003 was doing the same job it is now. But it comes as part of the OS, so HTC don't have to pay for it. If HTC shipped Opera with every Kaiser, the cost would go up again as you can bet HTC wouldn't just swallow the cost of the commercial licencing of Opera.

I have never, in any post, in any thread, said people are wrong about the issues or slated them for trying to get better drivers. I have said that I don't have them, or initially, didn't understand them. That is primarily why I have never posted in the Driver Action threads. If the device is capable of playing Hi-Res videos, and HTC have failed to build the device to take full advantage of that, good luck getting a fix! But could people please show us happy users the same respect we show the unhappy ones by not calling us optimistic, undemanding, deceitful etc? That is not what this forum is about. Its about helping those in need, and supporting those who are happy.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
In all due respect, how can you call this a happy thread after reading the OP's pretentious post? This guy is telling people who paid upwards of $600 for their device to:

- buy a PSP

- buy some video player that he believes will solve everything if and when it's released

- stop complaining about the camera even though he acknowledges it's worthless

- wait for Opera Mobile 9 and WM 6.1 as though it's a given they will solve anything

- says this device is restricted to communication when you can buy $50 devices for that

and then has the gall to say people are overreacting :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Steve-C:
Where do I start then?! OK lets change that word right, and instead pretend I said certain. Where do I say thats ok for all? In the next paragraph of my post that you quoted I go on to say that I (singular) make compromises and not everyone does, or wants to. So thanks for proving MY point that the people with issues won't conceed an inch. I say I'm happy, can accept your not and wish you luck in getting what you want. Low expectations, maybe, but at least I will accept that not everyone is happy, you don't seem to accept that some are.

Now the internet thing. Yes I have proved how well it could run. Microsoft wrote PIE, not HTC. So get on Microsofts case about how shoddy a product they have built. Since the Kaiser can run Opera well, its not HTC's fault PIE is a load of c**p. Likewise, if a today plugin lags, and that software was written by someone other than HTC (the standard MS stuff doesn't have that issue on the Today screen), or if WM6 is such a badly written OS that it can't handle resizing efficiently again how is that HTC's fault?

And the last paragraph...I've seen tabloid newspapers quote more accurately. I don't tell you to compromise, I say I do. I don't tell you what to do. I say that Opera will run better than PIE, surf anything you want, but don't exclusively blame HTC for design flaws in software they haven't written. I daily use the calender, word, internet, email for business. I use the media functions, GPS and ocassionally camera for recreation. I use WiFi and bluetooth So yes, I do use all of the functions (or the majority) and I am happy with how the device works. I also conceed that others aren't. And please don't reduce this to personal attacks on my expectations or abilities. You don't see me accusing you of having unrealistically high expectations of the device you use for watching pron (intentional mis-spelling) on your lunch break from your toilet cleaning job before going home and struggling to type posts with your index fingers on a PC you only bought because it came with a free Pamela Anderson mouse-mat do you? No, so extend me the same courtesy.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Charlie1618:
I sucks to discover that the expensive phone you just bought doesn't live up to it's projected performance. It's kinda like buying a nice car and discovering that the factory didn't build it to perform as you expected.

Could our devices perform better? Yes. Do some phones perform better than others? I'd be hard to say unless we tested a couple dozen against each other with shipped roms on all of them. So I say we find a few scientifically *level headed* people to reflash to shipped roms and do some imperical testing.

I don't blame people for being pissed off, but there's no reason to take it out on others in the community. If you really want a solution then I'd imagine that you'd all be in support of the idea of finding out if only a percentage of kaisers are effected or if there is specific software that's slowing us down. The problem seems obvious... now who has a *constructive* solution?

And if you still can't stand the idea of HTC not doing anything about the drivers or felt that you got ripped off I imagine that most of us had a 30 day return / exchange policy. If you where happy with the phone for the first 30 days then why be so pissed about it now?

There's no reason to be rude about any of this. Being rude is weak.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
Ha Ha...

To be honest, poor video playback goes well with the crap baground music in this type of video 'enhancing' the overall mood...

OH, ERR, BTW... heard that from someone else...:D

@Steve...Chill my good friend. You won't change people that have a burned in opinion. Let's just all agree to disagree. :o
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] guest3:
wow happy thread turned bad.

The kaiser is a good device, but if u were to deconstruct it to say, multimedia gaming, etc of course there are better alternatives.

I don't understand why devices weren't returned after a week, you could always sell on a open trading, place on the net, or if ur into gaming you could always buy an XBOX.

Have to learn to LIVE with it i guess. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Blowfish64:
Probably because most people were under the reasonable assumption that a company they respected would fix such blatant issues rather than telling them to spend $700 more to buy another device.

And as for the suggestion by Steve-C that all other companies should rewrite all their programs to make allowances for the fact that HTC's new products don't utilize basic video drivers like EVERY other manufacturer is beyond myopic.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Blowfish64:
Lol! Alright, that was pretty funny.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] meorah:
I think a LOT has to do with how much people paid for their device.

People who bought a $300 AT&T-subsidized TILT online are going to have $300 expectations (ie. business phone equivalents like BB, moto Q, sammy BJ II, Nokia E51, E61, Palm Treo 750, etc.)

People who bought a $700+ HTC-unlocked TyTN II are going to have those $700 phone expectations... N95 (and 8gb version), W960i, *cough* iphone for biz users *cough*, imate 9502, eten glofish, etc...

So yes, there are some people who are disappointed that the TyTN II isn't performing like a true multimedia phone should perform. There are other people who don't understand why their Wizards or Hermes run AS fast as their Kaiser. And there are tailgaters who don't know what the heck is going on but they're on board if we have a chance of sticking it to the man.

For the record, I bought a TILT specifically because I thought I was getting a $700 multimedia smartphone for $300 that just happened to have all the business goodies I wanted to boot. Since that's not what it is, I'm planning on returning it before my 30 days are up and either spending more money for a true multimedia smartphone (with corp email functionality), or just getting a $40 blackjack and holding off on portable video/games. GPS and touchscreen are nice, but they're not worth $260.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mickai:
I love this forum, and I love my Kaiser. What else to say? :)

Cheers,
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Stay0Puft:
My results: benchmark

ROM Version 1.56.404.6

ROM Date 08/28/07

Radio Version 1.27.12.11

Protocol Version 22.45.88.07W
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
Seems to me that its U.S. customers complaining the most...

My Dutty'd Kaiser runs fine. The screen is very responsive. Considering the number of people saying their device doesn't even respond to a screen tap for a few seconds, it sounds like either some roms are rubbish or they have third party software that is screwing the device up.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gabriel31337:
Hm... what to say

I just hope all these "I don't have any problem with my Kaiser"/"I am very happy with it right now" people will not upgrade the graphics drivers after these will be released... :rolleyes:

"What for? It just works great without them" :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gabriel31337:
Th..yeah :D:D:D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] somynex:
i think your post says it all. cheers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gabriel31337:
Looks like...

..people are giving up. That's exactly what HTC expects after not doing anything just "marketing" yapping "we might fix that, we might not, oh yes, or you know what?, no yes we will...".

:eek::D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
If those people who are taking offense to the people suggesting that the device isnt that bad actually read most of the first posts by the "happy" people, they would see that with very few exceptions, the "happies" are saying that they will be delighted if the device gets even better but that the "unhappies" are letting things get completely out of proportion.

Anyone who truly believes that their device does not do what they were told it would should take it back to the retailer/network and insist on a refund. If they are in the right the retailer will have to refund.

if not, then work with HTC - not against them.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] basilrsa:
As we do not have a direct HTC outlet in South Africa, and none of our networks have their own branded devices, we are forced to pay a premium for HTC products.

The retail prices here vary between R7600 to R 8000 ($1050 to $1150)

So who can blame me for complaining about an incomplete package that I bought.

Why should it be necessary to upgrade the camera software, maybe even the entire ROM?

Why must I invalidate my warranty to unoficially improve my device?

I feel cheated by HTC and their lack of support for their current models is not what one would expect from a major manufacturer!

But I admit I am at fault.

I should have learnt my lesson with the TyTN I also own. I waited a year for a promised upgrade to resolve issues, the media player library being one. These issues were only addressed with the release of WM6. I was told by HTC just prior to the release that they were only releasing the upgrade to resolve "certain issues" that existed in WM5.

Our local importers have not even bothered to answer e-mails sent to them.

I am now looking at the market carefully to choose my next device, as I cannot see a resolution to the driver problems from HTC in the near future.

I know I sound bitter towards HTC, but I fact I am mad with myself for purchasing the TyTN II.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
If you honestly believe that you were mis-sold, either by the network or by HTC's literature, then you should ask the network for a refund.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] basilrsa:
Unfortunalely that's where the problem lies.

I presumed the device was so advanced from all the hype I read in reviews.

Unfortunately I think the majority or reviewers do not really get to understand the products they test, and are also bound by time restraints. So only the obvoius functions are tested and reported on.

Nowhere can we borrow a new device for proper testing before buying. In fact most outlets here only have the dummy devices and order stock when an order is placed.

But I hold myself accountable for my purchase as no one forced me into the sale.

"Once bitten, twice shy"

"Twice bitten is unforgiving"