yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HTC Wings] tzitzu:
i could red it (only read it) i cound temporary change the value , BUT! : i could not save the nv , and the program it no allow's me to save it in phone that's why "not working" beside tyth same cpu gps works , i-mate 9502 strange same cpu msm7200 400Mhz , internal gps is activated , no other gps cip , so we must find how to save the nv changed value in to wings

br tzitzu
[HTC Wings] tzitzu:
ok guys in this pic of this thread

http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?i...mg4241ajq6.jpg

i found 2 external plugs :

one for external antena , and one in the right near up-corner (gps?) external antena ? things are like this:

you don't need a special antena in phone and second you have the plug option coverd by lol the cover of phone

to modify the nv can be an options for cookers , if nv is stored in fw update we can open and modify it if it's stored in hardspl can be done other hard spl with the value already activated ;)

br

i'm waiting for some opinions
[HTC Wings] tzitzu:
in qpst 'service programming , there is a gps one tab where we shall imput some setings, as pde ip adress , pde port number , pde transport IP/DBM and position calculation mobile/PDE i'm sure others discovered that too but even if you change it will not work , durind the values 11to17 in NV
[HTC Wings] max866:
so, what is the final answer. have anyone maked s730 fully functional with gps?
[HTC Wings] mykie:
if it has 13 satelites in view it means the receiver is working, so it has an antenna. 13 satelites is almost the max you can have.
[HTC Wings] rooomish:
Yes but Dumdidum has the preproduction model.
[HTC Wings] mpattonm:
Hey guys, is there a short how-to one-stop instructions that would tell me how to change NV ram value Diudium is reffering to?
[HTC Wings] joy.d:
i never have seen that you receive 13 satellites in the same moment. is it posible to recievemore than 9 in the same moment???

hmm, the fix of the nv is at themoment not static I understand?
[HTC Wings] Dumdidum:
I always thought that 12 are max
[HTC Wings] walram:
With NV Editor v1.5 i get an error code:

NV_ESN_CHKSUM_I ID = 1 is write protected.

It can't be downloaded to Mobile Phone!

Maybe this will help to find why we cannot update these values.
[HTC Wings] playerkiller:
Woah, i answered you in the other topic either.

Jocky i don't think it's hardware check related, but hardware security related. No values can be written on the phone, no matter the key you choose.
[HTC Wings] jockyw2001:
Please try read & write NV_RF_CONFIG_I

(Item #148)
[HTC Wings] mpattonm:
I would like to try it on my production phone, but can you please provide very brief step-by-step instructions? I am kinda lost in all related threads :(

Sorry and thanks a lot!
[HTC Wings] jockyw2001:
0. search and download QPST (this is a qualcomm product suite, i believe someone put a link in this thread)

1. install HardSPL (see sticky)

2. download drivers on your PC (installation will be triggered after step 5.)

3. uncheck "Allow USB connections" in Activesync

4. restart phone in tri-color bootloader mode and start MTTY 1.42 (attached)

5. press return until you see Cmd> prompt and type: rtask c (if you never installed the diagnostics drivers before the installation of three drivers will be triggered (modem, diag com port diag and nmea com port)

6. now exit MTTY and start "QPST RF NV Item Manager" and select Read from Phone from the File menu

7. search item 0148 [NV_RF_CONFIG_I] on a production model is 11 (hexadecimal 0xb) and on a pre-production model it is 17 (hexadecimal 0x11)

8. if you have a production model change the value to 17 and click the button "NV Write". To veryfy if the value is sticky Read from Phone again

These are the steps. Unfortunately on a production model the value 17 is not written and stays 11. This is due to some kind of security mechanism and I'm quite sure this can and will be h*cked soon.

On a pre-production Wings and also on production Kaisers the value can be modified.
[HTC Wings] Alcaline:
I am loosing my fate about this issue now..

I find it hard to belive that HTC would change the NV value and also put some sort of protection against changing this.

I am shure there are much easier ways to manualy deactivate the internal GPS in the production state.
[HTC Wings] Surfboomerang:
I can't believe that there is no-one who disassambled his/hers HTC wings. (and no... I'm not going to be the first one)

Als far as I know, we figured out that:

- it is sure that the processor has a GPS unit

- it is NOT sure that there is a builtin antenna

- if there is an antenna it is NOT sure it is attached to the GPS unit

And we are hoping it is a software issue and try to crack it. What if we crack the software in half a year and it turns out that the device doesn't have an antenna....? That would be a waste of time. (although it's fun to crack a phone through and through)

people crack xboxes and playstations and other stuff in no-time just because they dare to disassemble it. Is there no-one on this forum who has a broken, non pre-production, HTC wings?
[HTC Wings] walram:
maybe. on the other hand it is proven that on the kaiser the gps doesn't work with the settinge of the s730. The question is would HTC besides changing this setting do something else to disable GPS?

the answer could be removing the antenna, but this would be more work as it was installed on the pre-prod models... Besides, it there a seperate antenna for GPS or is it integrated in a multiple antenna for GSM, UMTS, GPS, etc.?

who will tell us?

my guess is we can get it to work. the question is when :)
[HTC Wings] Surfboomerang:
If I read the diagram on the last page of the above PDF file, there is a separate antenna for GPS. Plz correct me if i'm wrong
[HTC Wings] schabba:
Interesting is the last sentence on that page: NOTE: Alternative GPS antenna configurations are available.

Wondering if HTC choose a different configuration :confused:
[HTC Wings] Alcaline:
I see many refer to this quote, but I cant understand the logics.

A pre production model is not multi produced yet, i imagine it would be

quite easy to "draw out" the antenne. And most definetly if there are cost to be spared for HTC by doing this.

In every product today cost is everything, and the more HW that is inside the unit the higher the production cost will be.

So if extra HW is needed for GPS, and the unit is not supposed to have GPS, why on earth would they spend money to include it?
[HTC Wings] joy.d:
hmm, if you have a look to the "open wings" pictures that are on the FTP in the upload Area, you can see, that there are two antenna Inputs on the circuit. Maybe one of the small connectors ( i think the connector on the right side) must be the connector for a active GPS Antenna.

And: Maybe the other (changeable) part, the black plastic-thing with the backside loudspeaker, is the changeable part with integrated GPS Antenna.

So we need only a photo from a pre prod modell inside to see what happens :-)
[HTC Wings] schabba:
stupid question: how to I get access to the FTP uploadarea?
[HTC Wings] Alcaline:
Hi,

Could you please post a link to this picture?
[HTC Wings] joy.d:
uhh i have no idea how i upload a picture. But you can download itself from FTP??

this is the link:

ftp://xdaupload:xda@ftp.xda-developers.com

then go to folder upload and then to the file called wings_open.rar

(or have a look to the wings folder)
[HTC Wings] Surfboomerang:
If i'm correct, there is a connector for an external GPS antenna just above the camera.

And the internal antenna should be placed in the marked spot where also the PASS sticker is?
[HTC Wings] joy.d:
i´m not shure, but i think, the connector over the camera is the Antenna for GSM. (At the backpanel you can remove the mirror and make a hole, see the backpanel marked with sticker "3" that´s im think for normal external GSM Antenna.

and on the right side a liitle deeper, there is a smaller connector over a smal 2Pin connector. this is i think the GPS antenna connector. and i think the GPS antenna in mounted normally on this side, where is marked the circuit with [ ] (the pass label is there too)

(the 2pin connector is for the black-plastic part where is a embedded loudpeaker mounted)

maybe :-)
[HTC Wings] Alcaline:
The picture makes me wonder about the "wire" that seemes to be taped ringt by the back speaker,

there is like a brass wire taped to what would be the volume and Comm Manager button.

The loose metal part on picture P1281172 would be the antenna signal leader for the normal phone use i think,

witch connects to the two connectors right above the light sensor for the camera..

My guesses.. Makes me wanna open mye wings now :)

Maby if we saw the other side of that cuircuit board the would be writings on the board for inputs and outputs.
[HTC Wings] joy.d:
uhh yes, thats right, i see upper on the left & right side of the GSM connector 2 gold plated pins. maybe that is for the internal GSM antenna. (and this antenna is inside the black plastic part, that is mounted at this position)

hmm. do you have a pre-prod wings?
[HTC Wings] norwegianS730:
unfortunately i think you are quite right................dead on......the small gps connector above the 2pin connector are the same as inside my FSC n520 with gps, just dont remember the name of the plug(MMCX or something) :(
[HTC Wings] Alcaline:
No, just the production model, but much easier to have a real look instead of puctures.. The only thing stopping me is that damn warranty sticker! :mad:
[HTC Wings] Alcaline:
Okay, so if you look at this picture, the blue area with the 2 pin connector should be the back speaker connection.

The pink connection could be a GPS connection..

But what makes be curious is the yellow area that I have marked..
[HTC Wings] norwegianS730:
could be a part of an active gps antenna. maybe the possible gps connector are ment for an external passiv gps antenna in other configs..
[HTC Wings] joy.d:
hmm, i think the yellow marked part of the picture is the switch for communication manager, and the volume buttons on the left side of your wings.

the blue one is the speaker and the pink one is the gps connector, (a ulta mini mmxcc???? connector i´m 95% shure :-)

for an external connector in other configs i´t´s too small.. this connector looks like for internal use only. (is really small, i think, when you see the GSM connector that is small too, but the gps connector is much smaller)

cannot open somebody his pre-prod wings to verify that?

i think the niki (Touch Dual) has the same problem :-)
[HTC Wings] norwegianS730:
we need to open a pre production model for comparison:cool:
[HTC Wings] Dumdidum:
I wont do it :-/
[HTC Wings] joy.d:
hehe why not? is only a pre-prod model. Or must you send it back?

yust a joke ;-) I can understand you. unfortunality i don´t have a other

type of htc with gps inside.

an electrican knows people can connect with peacefull fingers a external active gps antenna to the small connector and try to receive really satellites. before soembody must fix the prob with the NV Parameters.

maybe it´s tomuch work for a simple smartphone. try a blackjack II device from samsung, the same procedure, but you can easily active GPS, (AT&T) there is a gps antenna inside,

and the device feels good too :-)
[HTC Wings] mpattonm:
please do sir, I beg you.
[HTC Wings] jockyw2001:
Yes, it's exactly matching the GPS connector on Kaiser. Get an antenna and try. The fact that there is an antenna jack is very encouraging that it is only protected by sw. And hopefully in the weekend I can unlock the NVM :)
[HTC Wings] walram:
Do you know what kind of connection it is, since it is the same as the kaiser? mmcx or something like that?

about the NVM, isn't it possible to flash the entire radio and override this security? Or is the NVM not in the radio rom?
[HTC Wings] Surfboomerang:
Jocky... I don't get your post. There is an antenna jack, so no antenna attached to it? How can it be a sw issue?
[HTC Wings] mpattonm:
Could you, by any chance take a picture of an antena component on your kaiser? Also, check if there any markings on it. I bet it will be same one like that HTC were using on pre-prod S730. I bet such a component can be located on an open market.
[HTC Wings] mpattonm:
Simply pal. Imagine you have a full spec device design from chipset provider (Qualcomm in this case). So you take that design, make a prototype based on it and then you realise its final price exceeds desired level. So what you do (beeing a chinese manufacturer) is you cut some components and possibly cripple down some functionality. Like a GPS antena component. Here you go, your BOM is now $1.30 less (maybe $20 in the shop). But you do not want to let user install GPS app and get low signal warnings, do you? That would result in user claims for sure. So what you do is you disable GPS interface in system and make GPS feature dissaper from your ads.
[HTC Wings] Surfboomerang:
so you try to fix crippled hardware with a software tweak?!?
[HTC Wings] norwegianS730:
i would if i got the pre production model, but i dont..... :(
[HTC Wings] rooomish:
You have to fix both problems in this case:

- first fix the sw

- then use your s730 with external antenna (hole in cover)

- or not to have dependence on ext - put (if missing) the internal antenna there from Kaiser (as spare part - or made by hand as HW copy) :)
[HTC Wings] norwegianS730:
btw, if someone tries an antenna, you got to be sure of the amps the telephone delivers on the output jack matches the requirements of the antenna. this is true if it requires an active antenna, because these are powered by the gps jack and via the coax cable. if its inactive(wich i dont think) it doesnt matter. i know because several busted their gps input on FSC N560 by attaching an external active antenna with too high power consumption. If its an inactive antenna, we should get a pretty good signal with an external reradiating gps antenna, but i dont, i tried.
[HTC Wings] NoNco:
yeap

will be very intreting to see the diff. between the pre and prod. models. Im sure someone will have the balls :D to take the cover off the pre-model some time and post pics.

Its just a case of waiting for it. :rolleyes:

Anyway at least we are moving forward.
[HTC Wings] faerynix:
Is it me or is the yellow metal thingie an internal antena that's had its trace cut and painted over with insulating paint? Check out the purple stuff on the PCB over the thin trace. Can anyone verify that on a pre-prod model that trace is intact?
[HTC Wings] Surfboomerang:
Why should I make a hole in the cover to attach an external antenna if I have a bluetooth antenna?
[HTC Wings] NoNco:
active

I doubt that the phone needs an active antenna. But then again im a total noob on antennas
[HTC Wings] norwegianS730:
hehehe, good point...... if the phone lacks an active antenna this project

could/should be terminated. we by a different phone next time :D
[HTC Wings] mpattonm:
I would not say that. First of all, it now seems to me Wings has (or is supposed to have) separate antena input for GPS and rest. If not, why would then be an unutilised microconnector for SMD antena (blue square on a pic)? Also, if GPS would utilise GSM antena, why would HTC bother disabling GPSinterface (no cost saving)? Also, GPS and GSM operate on quite different frequencies, so they need different antenas afterall.

And when I say so, I can conclude using an external GSM antena will not help GPS reception at all.

Secondly, by saying you have tried - have you been able to enable COM4 in NV RAM? AFAIK noone has been able to do so on production unit so far. And as said be4, even best antena will not help untill GPS port is enabled via software - please confirm.
[HTC Wings] norwegianS730:
htc might cut some costs by dropping the antenna and disabled the SW because they didnt want complaints about poor reception. qualcomm states the chip can bee delivered with several gps antenna configurations.as i said, the jack could also bee an input for an external antenna on other devices.

i tried the reradiating antenna on an unmodified s730. if we could fix the disabled software, we soon get the answers by trying an reradiating antenna.
[HTC Wings] mpattonm:
Well I kinda hate using bluetooth GPS module for the navigations. Its kinda like using dildo to shag chicks. It does the trick, but not nicely.
[HTC Wings] mpattonm:
Possibly. But I kinda doubt that, considering profit loss they have on sale due to crippled feature. Not if its not compensated by lower BOM price. This is not the way of chinese thinking. Believe me, customer complains are no issue when they are compensated by right profit.

Howerever, there might be another reasons - for example EMI tests were not sucsesful and they were not able to obtain CE/TUV/... mark for it in the end and when they fix EMI issue (by for example by adding some more shielding), they will reapply for certificate and come out with S730 v2. Afterall, S730 has been delayed several times, it somehow points to issues during R&D (or manufacturing?) process.

Maybe they also finnaly add correct ATI Imageon drivers, put on WM6.1, name it S740 (or whatever), put "unbeatable multimedia experience and GPS" tags on ads and market it for $50 more.

Not the connector of this "size". This connector is not for external antena, its an SMD type, one plug-in time only. Getting a drop-in antena component shoull be pretty easy, better component shops should be able to sell them for fraction of BT GPS module price. No soldering should be required.

Thats indeed interesting. What modification exactly do you mean by "reradiating"? What antena ?
[HTC Wings] Mark Hewitt:
Well some have suggested that the reason the GPS is crippled on the S730 is because of TomTom's deal with HTC. TomTom don't produce a product for Windows SmartPhone and so rather than have people buy navigation software from competitiors, they disable the GPS.
[HTC Wings] playerkiller:
Sounds pretty stupid to me. Next Generation TomTom should be produced for WM SP either. And, by the way, an active GPS on wings could have raised the value of the phone to +$50, at zero cost.

There's no deal when concerning money. :)
[HTC Wings] mpattonm:
Absolutely.
[HTC Wings] norwegianS730:
do a search, kind of complicated to explain. short: its an active antenna with an external power source with an extra antenna in other end wich induct the signal "wireless" to the gps receiver. works great up to 10cm. i built several, they are great in cars becuse you dont need to fiddle about antenna jacks.

it acts as an booster to the receiver.
[HTC Wings] Dumdidum:
10 cm? .....
[HTC Wings] Dumdidum:
:-D:-D:-D:-D
[HTC Wings] jockyw2001:
In Kaiser there is an internal antenna and a jack for an external antenna.

The GPS jack has a vertical lid in the inner part of the connector.

PS: after another inspection of the Wings jack I'm not so sure anymore if this is a GPS jack. I definitely need a Wings in front of me :)
[HTC Wings] walram:
Maybe here is something we can use :confused:

http://www.trgcomponents.com/TrgUS/Internet/ProductList.aspx?CategoryID=1716&SubCategoryID=3810#3810
[HTC Wings] zombie27:
I think this is Bluetooth connector for testing BT at factory and the wire to the right of the connector is a BT antenna. Now take a look at the left side of the PCB, just below the bottom left corner of the camera. There are apparently missing some components and I think that there is just empty :( place for internal GPS connector and for GPS antenna RC circuit.
[HTC Wings] playerkiller:
Those are just speculations. We do need someone with prepro model to open up his phone and compare his result with a production one.

We're talking of removing 2-3 torx. Nothing else.
[HTC Wings] jockyw2001:
Exactly, I'm also fed up with all speculations in tons of threads. F*ck it, I would have opened it after 5 minutes.
[HTC Wings] NoNco:
mmm

well i think we are stuck untill someone does open a pre-prod version. :(

Come on guys...:cool:

Who opned up there prod. model, maybe they can do a little tut. on what they did with pics so someone with a pre. model can see what to do without messing the phone up
[HTC Wings] joy.d:
Hmm, i think the big connector is in the most of the Time a GSM Connector (there are 2Watts RF Power Output), and the small one is for GPS. (there is not RF output, only the 3,3 or 1,8Volt for active GPS antenna)
[HTC Wings] jockyw2001:
No! The big connector closest to cam is GPS (i *did* read the f*cking manual). There is no word about the small connector, that's why I put the question mark.
[HTC Wings] playerkiller:
LOL...

Don't worry, someone surely will. :)
[HTC Wings] faerynix:
So does nobody else think that in this image, the purple stuff that's painted on the PCB just above the yellow highlighted metal thing (which I believe is an internal antenna) is a factory cut trace after the PCB's been designed and built?
[HTC Wings] NoNco:
what

Whats a " factory cut trace " ?
[HTC Wings] jockyw2001:
a trace which was cut off in factory
[HTC Wings] playerkiller:
I know nothing of electronics, so i can't answer.

Why disabling GPS if everything to make it work is there, however?

No, i think no antenna are present on porduction models. Now, everything stands on those few people who have a pre-production model.

Guyz, i send you my torx if you need one... :)
[HTC Wings] jockyw2001:
model diversification because marketing dept wants that
[HTC Wings] playerkiller:
Well.. you're right. They made a 3g smartphone without call camera and 3 smartphones without 3g, after all.. LOL
[HTC Wings] mpattonm:
I have to admit I do not see any cut trace in there, but thats because the image is not that detailed for me. besides, even if theres a cut PCB trace, it may not necesarly do anything with GPS part. But it could be!
[HTC Wings] mpattonm:
But in that case they have would cripple every single component related to GPS func. out there. In fact its very easy to "delete" components out of PCB even on fully running PCB assy line. Even on a motherboard.
[HTC Wings] dmellos:
It is very clear that the GPS requires an antenna, that can be enabled or disabled via a software multiplexer. So if this does physically exist on the phone (Hope it does !!!) then with a hack it could be enabled..

If it does not exist then we are sc*#@^%. There is no way we can get GPS working without the antenna.
[HTC Wings] mspizziri:
I apologize if this is a dumb question, but I'm about to get my first HTC device so I am learning as I go along :)

I have been reading that some people with pre production models can get 3G service in Canada (specifically Fido) even though HTC says it doesn't support 3G in North America

Has anyone been able to get 3G service and is it even a software thing that could be modified. I was curious if there was a way to check if a device is triband 3G
[HTC Wings] Arcano:
¿And what the hell does this have to do with GPS?
[HTC Wings] mspizziri:
LOL Nothing, but I wasn't sure if you could test for both things at the same time so I thought I would ask

Plus there have been a few people that have been asking about both
[HTC Wings] rooomish:
You can make new thread concerning this. But maybe it will better to wait for the s730 release for US market: http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1045

Maybe it will cover your needs :-)

r.
[HTC Wings] mspizziri:
Thank you for that link, I didn't realize the release date was so soon.

I already bought one with the 2100mhz 3G (just waiting for it to come in the mail), mostly because I got a great deal on it

I'll be sure to keep an eye out here for future threads on the subject :)
[HTC Wings] joy.d:
hehe, maybe the US version has GPS included ;-) maybe is a problem of interferences with 3G ? :-) I remember the first product flyer. S730 with GPS.

Maybe the field-tests was problematic and so the disable GPS.. hmm.. ;-)
[HTC Wings] Mark Hewitt:
There are plenty phones out there with 3G and GPS, so it's not that.
[HTC Wings] Dumdidum:
Btw. the internal GPS is now working perfectly... 8-9 Satellites in use.
[HTC Wings] asimolo76:
????????????

:confused: dumdidum but you have pre-prod model ? or you have find the solution for the prod model ?
[HTC Wings] gs-ireland:
On a post-production s730???