yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] jimbob_sf:
I thought the same as you and was worried I was walking into a nightmare. I had advanced calling on the account and popped the SIM I had in my Pixel and it worked flawlessly from minute one until last week when absolutely nothing has been able to get voice back. I went through 4 Sim cards with no luck.

I think the current thinking is to pull the SIM before going into recovery, standing on one leg... All I know is I have a $700 brick hoping like a moron the new firmware fixes it.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] jdrch:
Are you stock & unrooted, stock & rooted, ROM & rooted, or what?

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:20 ----------

How well does the unlocked S8+ work on VZW? Similar network issues, or what?
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] jimbob_sf:
I was unlocked stock, rooted with magisk, viperu magisk rom. Once I lost voice, nothing would bring it back.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] il buono:
There are no network issues since it has all the necessary LTE and CDMA radios to fully work on Verizon. Same thing with the unlocked Note 8.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] jdrch:
Ah OK. I read the entire thread - which took a couple hours of my life, lol - and it seems any alteration to the phone such as unlocking the bootloader, rooting, etc. causes problems. I'm not sure how much comfort this is, but FWIW it seems just about every BYOD phone I've looked into has Verizon network issues when bootloader unlocked/flashed/altered, so you're not alone. I don't think I've seen a company as malicious to its own paying customers as Verizon is (maybe Comcast?) but that's another story.

Apologize if I missed the following detail, but does being stuck on Band 13 along with the slower LTE speeds occur even when the phone is stock and unaltered?

---------- Post added at 21:47 ---------- Previous post was at 21:46 ----------

Interesting. Thanks for that detail. If the U11 doesn't work out for me I'll probably have to do the S8+ instead, as much as I don't want to.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
Did you run the ruu without a SIM card inserted? I don't see how that wouldn't fix it if it was a software issue. It replaces firmware, radio and all. Hopefully the update fixes it for you but it seems people losing voice or text or no mms is a whole separate issue.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] michaelbsheldon:
Yes, it does stay on Band 13 on current RUU. That said, my Verizon service for the U11 on Band 13 has been excellent and fast enough. I drive in metro areas and out in the stix, and have never lost reception on 100% stock unrooted rom.

But I'm still wanting Bands 2 and 4 along with carrier aggregation and WiFi calling to make this phone about perfect.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] jdrch:
I'm agonizing so much about this phone right now, tbh. I'm probably going to RMA it on arrival now. I even made peace with the headphone jack removal, but when my incumbent S5 supports bands 4 & 13, the U11's current situation on Verizon is unacceptable.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] christiebunny:
Well, that explains at least some of my problems-- and I think I may need to have them replace mine... The SIM's been cutting in and out a lot today, which would also explain why I couldn't turn the radio on the other day, too. And would also explain the occasional signal drops I was getting, even when things were working right. I just never noticed a pattern until it happened 4 times in the last hour :(

(And yes, I've tried more than one sim)
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
You had already mentioned the only service you can get to work correctly is Verizon in your area. If I remember right. Maybe having only band 13 is causing your issues. My first U11 was unlocked and rooted before I returned it. I just returned it to stock and relocked it before returning and had no issues. The same goes for warranty claims, I've never had HTC refuse a claim from unlocking the bootloader. Just a thought if you want to root your phone so that you can get bands 2&4. I don't know. Your thirty days has passed by now hasn't it?

---------- Post added at 08:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 AM ----------

I wouldn't worry too much bro, if you have the same experience as me you will be ok but if not you have 30 days to try it. If they give a hard time on returning it all you have to say is it was supposed to be a no questions asked return policy. I got my refund in a week.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] jdrch:
You had slow LTE speeds until you rooted & used Network Guru, only to lose service completely eventually due to running a custom ROM anyway. That's the problem with this phone on Verizon: you either keep signal with subpar LTE speeds, or you get better speeds via rooting & then lose it anyway. That's an unacceptable tradeoff. HTC simply dropped the ball here, plain and simple.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
I had no problem with my speeds before network guru. As a matter of fact my live streaming worked better on band 13. My speeds on the U11 were consistent with my speeds on my htc 10

---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 PM ----------

And most of us are here on xda for a reason. I only lost signal after flashing and installing stuff to system that required a reboot. 4 times in two months and I seemed to have avoided that by pulling my SIM while flashing things. This is just my honest experience.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
I never said they didn't drop the ball. I was the one emailing top executives and htc about it. Only thing I have been saying is this phone does work and it works great on Verizon and you can avoid the lost signal issue. I have stated many times that I would not recommend this phone if you do not have a backup phone and if you do not mind rooting it. It's working great for me and I have had 2 - 30 day trials, if someone wants the phone bad enough, it does work. It's been over 95% reliable when flashing custom stuff and 100% reliable as long as it is booted. These issues people are having with just first connecting to the network, I have no clue what that's about except I know that is on the Verizon side of issues. Maybe the tri-state area here in Cincinnati is better than the areas they live in. Maybe their imei's weren't entered into Verizon. I don't know but that doesn't seem to be a hardware or software issue. It seems their accounts are screwed up. When I switched back to my HTC 10 after sending my first U11 back, I lost the ability for text messaging. And that is a Verizon HTC 10. A new SIM card fixed that and that same SIM continued to work when I put it in my second U11. I'm having the and exact experience with my second as I did my first. And the only reasons I sent my first back is cause there was a mysterious hairline scratch on my screen, I wanted to upgrade to the 6gb model and I wanted another 30 day trial period. Both have been successful, my first was only band 13 but I had 100% reliability when the phone was booted. No drop calls, no problems playing games or videos and live streaming was flawless. My second got even better cause I have all the bands. Losing signal is not an issue for me as long as I remove my SIM when flashing and if this next update fixes that issue than all is good. That's it. I don't know why all this other drama is happening I just know I haven't seen it in both my U11's.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] jdrch:
Fair enough. This was the perfect phone until I found this thread.

I just ordered a Verizon Moto Z2 Force (Z2F)from Best Buy: full network support and mostly the same hardware features as the U11 (minus full water resistance & ~10% less battery life) for $554 in total payments, which is excellent compared to other flagships for what the phone offers.* It's a good alternative for folks who want a (near) stock experience & blazing fast performance without curved screen gimmickry or heavy handed UI changes that rob you of features like the S8+. Also, the Z2 Force is one of Verizon's Gigabit LTE flagships.

The only things I don't like about the Z2F relative to the U11 are the poor durability of the front screen (fixed with a protector) and the splashproofing as opposed to full waterproofing (I've never had more water on a phone than a few drops, so I don't foresee that being an issue.)

My U11 will be going straight back to HTC, unfortunately. Maybe they'll nail everything completely next year, or go the OnePlus route and not even try to support VZW.

* You can also get it fully unlocked direct from Moto for $720, though I think that's a bad value for money at that price.

---------- Post added at 12:00 ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 ----------

Good luck to them trying to do that without their own SOC.

Sadly, CPU & SOC development isn't remotely trivial, especially when you throw in LTE radio performance. No one has been able to match Qualcomm's raw capability in the latter; not even Intel. There's also the problem that Apple CPU development is 1 to 2 generations ahead of everyone else. Qualcomm completely missed the 64-bit wave, and the SD810 release was disastrous. They've been struggling to catch up since. The last 2 iPhones have literally smoked every other Android phone in benchmarks. In other words, Google would have to catch up to BOTH Qualcomm AND Apple in 2 different hardware categories. It's not impossible, but it's an extremely tall order.

If Google wants to catch to Apple in terms of hardware via vertical integration their best bet would be to hope Apple makes an SD810-esque mistake. So far that hasn't happened.

There is, however, another avenue Google hasn't explored, and that's to take the Microsoft route and develop a proper hardware partnership program that includes not only OEMs but individual component suppliers. Microsoft found itself in a similar position vs. Apple in PCs and have staged an stunning comeback over the past 4 years by actively getting their entire ecosystem on board with development, OS updates, design, styling, etc. Now we have many PCs that rival or exceed Apple's offerings, all without MS having to do much component (CPU, etc.) development on its own. For some reason Google has been reluctant to do this, preferring instead to lob AOSP code over the wall to Qualcomm, etc. and letting the ecosystem figure things out. Microsoft did that for years and it didn't work. Not sure why Google is intent on repeating the same mistake. The fact that Android doesn't have an equivalent of WinHEC, for example, is astoundingly bad. No wonder the Android ecosystem is a mess.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
Yeah I'm just trying to be completely honest, if you are like me and prefer HTC phones and don't mind a 30 day trial it is worth it. Cause I know it is working for others just like it is working for me but if people see all this negative stuff about it, they will never know. I always unlock and root my HTC phones anyway, it has never effected my warranty. Also the first U11 I had refunded was unlocked and relocked. So that is no issue. But maybe they will fix things for the HTC U11 Plus in November and Verizon customers can have success with that.

---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 PM ----------

I know when Verizon did sell HTC flagships they would put their own firmware and software on it to make it tough for us to unlock the bootloaders. We could never use HTCDev to unlock, we had to rely on Sunshine to get us s-off. And the Verizon HTC Development community was always limited cause we could not flash anything from the unlocked forum. We couldn't flash kernels, Verizon does not like unlocked bootloaders and they made it tough for those of us who like to root. Up until the HTC 10, they backed off of it and we were more free in the regular XDA HTC 10 forums. So despite the sales, maybe Verizon just didn't want to fool with the U11 because of that. It was hard to enjoy the M8 and M9 as much cause of how Verizon restricted us. So to me, this little bit of extra work on my U11 is nothing new when it comes to Verizon. They always find a way to screw us. Besides the initial connection to the Verizon Network, we still don't know if people on complete stock are having the lost signal issue, cause like Beaups and I both said, it only happened to us when we are messing with things. But even if the new update fixes it, Verizon HTC fans may have another shot at it with a better phone in November with the HTC U11 Plus.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] QD2DC:
I'm doubtful the U11 Plus will come to verizon at this point. Rumors suggest it'll release in china first which means it'll most likely lack cdma right off the bat. I don't see them developing two phones just to accommodate Verizon. Any one remember the butterfly series? Verizon go the first in the form of the Droid DNA. Slick phone for it's time, but then HTC didn't bother bringing the successors overseas. HTC hasn't had success on verizon since the m7 and sales have steadily declined since then. The U11 sales have already peaked and the numbers aren't great, at least when you consider where they once were in the m7 days...
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
No

I know Verizon won't sell it, I was saying it might actually work right with Verizon this time.

Yeah HTC has always had a tough time with Verizon, the U11 isn't the first. It's just the first where Verizon didn't support it so this mess really shouldn't be a shocker.

---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ----------

My first HTC phone was from Cincinnati Bell Wireless. I loved that company, always got free phones and they had really good service. It was the HTC One S. That was a dandy little phone. I still have three of them in mint condition. Cincinnati Bell Wireless didn't get the HTC One, I don't think but that One S was a powerful little phone. Then effin Verizon bought out Cincinnati Bell Wireless and now the One S phones I have are useless, I don't believe they will work on any other carrier. But Verizon gave me 4 new phones, HTC ONE M8's plus over $1,0000 in credits to buy us out. It was a sweet deal at first but I hated to see CBW go. I always hated Verizon but I knew their service was the next best thing. My first Android from CBW was the Motorola Xt720.

***edit maybe that's why I get great signal here, Verizon acquired CBW'S cell towers
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
It would have been nice if you took the time to activate this beast and take advantage of your free 30 day trial, just to see if I was right. Especially if the fix is in the next update and you wouldn't even need to root.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] jdrch:
No offense taken. I know what it's like to love a company's product(s) and have great experiences with them while a bunch of people have issues. The thing is, I'm just too busy to troubleshoot network connectivity and performance on a brand new phone. If this were an older device like my S5 I could make the argument I'm saving money, but for $679 everything had better work right out of the box.

It doesn't help that the Moto Z2 Force pretty much offers the same major hardware features and software performance and much better Verizon support for much less money.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] EtherealRemnant:
Honestly, I agree with you which is why I have a 256GB IPhone 8 Plus coming on Tuesday. I still have Mint's service paid until February but after seeing the performance of the A11, there is no chance Qualcomm will be pulling a miracle next year and I wanted to get off T-Mobile's network anyway so I signed up with Xfinity Mobile which used Verizon's network but it requires a new phone purchase. With the U11 issues, I wasn't going to chance it and getting a Note 8 would just be a sidegrade so it's time for my first iPhone.

The A11 scoring 40K over the OP5 in Antutu is nuts. And it absolutely obliterates anything out there in Geekbench. If I don't like it, I'll pay the 35 dollar restocking fee and send it back (Xfinity Mobile even ships a label in the box and pays return shipping) but if I do like it, it may be the end of the line for Android for me. Google is not Apple and the pricing on the new Pixels that leaked which would be the only Android phones I'd consider after all this update garbage with HTC and Samsung always taking a ridiculous amount of time to release new updates as well but no, they had to price it like an iPhone.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
Yeah completely understandable. I still have my HTC 10 so I didn't really need a phone but I had a $50 credit plus the $50 coupon and extra money at the time. I just know there is much more negativity being shown than the positive. I know more people are having the same experience as me, they just don't post it here. And like I said, even when Verizon did sell HTC phones they made it hard on HTC and those of us who do like unlocking and rooting. I think Verizon and HTC always butted heads.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] jdrch:
I was thinking this the other day myself. It's ridiculous to drop premium money and not get full update support, especially with Android's numerous documented security issues (which Google still isn't taking seriously, IMO, but that's another discussion.) The Pixel line is the only Android phone line worthy of long term investment from a retail consumer purchase POV. The rest are basically trade-ins/eBay sales-in-waiting from the moment they're released.

I also came upon the following fundamental realization the other day: Google's business model does NOT incentivize them fixing the problems we have with Android. Remember, Google is an ad company that provides Android to OEMs for free. You don't need OS updates, a non-fragmented ecosystem, or proper hardware partnerships to display ads. Hell, you don't even need good development. All you need to do is ensure that the endpoint client on which the ads are being displayed can actually display the ads, which is a pretty low bar.

This explains why Google hasn't fixed any of those problems or tried much with hardware partnerships: as far as they're concerned, making actual good devices is an OEM problem, not theirs. It's really disappointing when you think about it.

That said, iOS is much too limited for me. I was hoping Windows on phones would take off, but Microsoft isn't pushing new hardware (though software development continues.)
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] EtherealRemnant:
I have been totally against iOS for years and who knows, I may still dislike it but I've never given it a fair trial and I've totally dismissed it. I'm not looking forward to paying taxes for app purchases but Apple has come a long way from where they were in a lot of areas (although it's all still centered around iTunes which is a bit of a pain but hey, at least I can backup my entire phone without having to root and pray everything restores properly later on) and my main reason for having to have root for my phones is because of the lack of timely updates and because backup on Android is an absolute joke.

It is totally true that Google is an ad company and all they care about is mining your data but wouldn't that be an incentive to make a compelling alternative to the iPhone in the Pixel family? Part of the Apple ecosystem is that it's expensive - I don't even have the phone yet and I had to order Bluetooth headphones, a case, and I'm going to need to pick up a few iTunes codes online for all the apps I'll have to replace and if I want rapid charging, that's another 75 bucks. For me, it came down to the fact that I'm tired of sacrificing performance, security and privacy on Android. When Samsung pushes updates before HTC, it's time to look elsewhere.

It's quite likely I'll be using both for awhile and I'll still be tied into Google services (I use Google Voice, Gmail, Calendar and Hangouts) but the services Apple offers are much more cohesive. I can't dismiss the iPhone as an option anymore because it's finally come to the point that my reasons for staying on Android are being outweighed by the cons much more than the pros.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
Yeah I like messing and tweaking and tricking my phone out too much, it's a small hobby I suppose. I don't like the idea of just having a phone. I can do that with just about any phone. Although I totally see and understand your points. My niece changed over to iPhone, I've always ensured she had a good phone and tried a little bit to talk her out of it but she is really happy with it. I've just always been different, I don't roll with the mainstream. I don't mix in with the types of people I know who always have iPhone lmao. I would get bored with it.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] EtherealRemnant:
I think I'm at that point where it's getting more frustrating for me to have to tinker with my devices to get them to perform right than the joy of doing the tinkering. If I want to tinker, I'll go build a Gentoo distribution and finally sit down and figure out the ins and outs of Enlightenment. I'm not planning on selling the U11, I'm just going to forward my calls to my new phone and route it through Google Voice. I still want to tinker but I want Verizon's network at a decent price for my phone service and there was no BYOD option available so I'll just see which one becomes my main. If the U11 wins in the end, I'll just eat the restocking fee but I've had a lot of my fellow techie friends get iPhones and they keep trying to convince me that most of the lock down is gone besides the launcher and iTunes, neither of which are all that big of a deal.

Android will always have my heart and I'll always have an Android device but I want to have a device that just works and is always up to date - the iPhone fits the bill. I definitely couldn't justify paying around the same amount of money for the Pixel 2 XL especially since there would be no real performance increase in the switch.

---------- Post added at 05:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 PM ----------

And... Its no longer a rumor.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordon...pixel-2-price-release-date-specs-camera-cost/

Pixel 2 XL 128GB - $949

iPhone 8 Plus 256GB - $949
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
Yeah I'm still proud to own the HTC I'M proud I'm not one of the whiners. It's just a phone. Pick what you like and use it.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
Sorry guys this was uncalled for lol, I was having a little too much to drink last night. I need to be nicer.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
Hey Bud, I think I screwed up by unchecking the other band capabilities, like cdma and gsm and the rest, do you know how I can get them back? See how they are missing in the pic
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
Maybe if I run the ruu I can get them back. I don't need them but I would like to know they are their in case I do need them some day
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
I been getting this notification for Verizon message+ lately. Never used to get it on my HTC 10. It's saying Verizon message+ is connected to WiFi. See the icon and the notification in the pics. Anyone else been getting this?
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] meadowscurse:
I would get that notification on my m9. Have not seen it on the u11 at all.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
Have you been having any issues on Verizon? And are you rooted and used Network Signal Guru?
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] dodendemise:
Is that for WiFi calling?
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
I don't know, it seems if the Verizon messages app is working with WiFi then somehow we should be able to get WiFi calling to work. I can send mms with data turned off.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] dodendemise:
I looked it up and I think it's just messaging over WiFi, but I know tablets can call so maybe it's possible through the app
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] PieceKeepr:
I have no idea. If it were me I'd probably restore my newest backup before going the ruu route, but that would probably fix it for sure.
[HTC U11  Questions & Answers] LibertyMonger:
I don't know what I did but they came back.