yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] dankabus:
All oks, the problem has a reboot PC.

Thank you DaveShaw
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] DaveShaw:
Whoa! The website has just gone down in a major way.

The whole site is going to a "This page is parked..." Uh Oh!:eek:

Hopefully Dutty Notices soon. I'll PM Him Now.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
It's not doing that for me. I went in fine. www.cinetsystems.com/xda
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] DaveShaw:
Nope still getting it. I've just done a Ctrl+F5 refresh and still the holding page..?!??!:confused:

Tater, I've Added Attachment:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
just did the refresh here and im still in the ftp. its working for me.:)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] DaveShaw:
See Screeny above ^^^^^
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] briggs81:
Want to see a screenie of it working for me? :p
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] realslimb:
its not working for me either :( ive hit refresh god knows how many times
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] DaveShaw:
No TY, I Believe you. Maybe a UK Specific problem. US and Canada say it's OK.

Ive sent Dutty another PM mentioning that It is UK only. :confused::confused:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] realslimb:
Nope im here in the US and its not working for me
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
heres a pic using the crappy tilt camera of my desktop pc

had to zip it. too big per xda as jpg
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] j.a:
Looks like it could be area specific, I just tried the link and it works fine here in SoCal, USA.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] DaveShaw:
As a software developer, my expert opions leads me to believe that the cause of the fault is: "It's F*cked!" :D:D:D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] realslimb:
someone willing to upload or email me the Rom :D i was hoping to load it before work
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] ComradeHaz:
OK for me, in UK... (On .ac.uk gateway though.) My mates sever reports 'coming soon'.... Very odd :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] crispyj:
It's not area specific as it works for me from my personal laptop using Firefox, but if I attempt to access it from my work laptop (behind our proxies), it now goes to the parked page.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] ComradeHaz:
v4 you mean?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] shigs:
Great job and thanks for taking the time to do it!

Any plans on testing 1.27.11.31? I always thought I got the best life out of 1.27.12.11 but I am curious how it actually compares to 11.31 that I'm running now.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] realslimb:
yes.. i think im like 2 roms behind.. i dont get much time to visit:eek:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] ComradeHaz:
Sure, I'll pm you a link - not my server so don't give it to anyone else, I'll delete it in an hour...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] :
incorrect link

looks like someone forgot to pay the bill....:confused:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] ComradeHaz:
*shrugs* links are still hot for me
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] :
maybe..... i forgot to pay my bill.... haha

Can anyone put the file somewhere else?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] BrigateGB:
Well i thin: Dutty...We HAve a Problem....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] samsat:
For the umpteenth time

http://www.cinetsystems.com/xda/TouchFlo/DualTouch Editions/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] DrJerry:
The link doesn't work on 3 of my systems.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] :
no worky

this link doesn't work me either, it takes me to the same page
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] BrigateGB:
On my Mac isn`t working too
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] DaveShaw:
Please read the previous posts. There is a regional specific problem affecting some users when accessing the site. I think Dutty is trying to look at it now.

I cannot access the Site, P1Tater can. It's just luck. Please, if you cannot access the site take your time and try again.

Do not Flame on this post, especially if you have not read all the previous posts.

Kind Regards.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Hdstreetglide:
Oops...looks like someone forgot to read! It's been posted several times!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] collinssc:
Everyone Just Calm Down for a little while

I don't know about region specific... everything is now secure http and the home Page for the company now says under construction.. this would leave me to believe that Dutty is making some changes before his server get trampled the way it did when v4 came out
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] FenixKelvin:
midlet manager kaiser

May i Know where can i get the midlet manager for kaiser ? thks
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
OH NO - here goes:eek:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] :
just search the internet for midlet manager, it'll bring you back to these forums and you'll find it
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] lsdmt:
Quick Question:

My phone now tells me that I am always roaming(white triangle) now and it never did before I flashed. Just wondering why this would be and if there are any possible extra charges? Thanks

I asked earlier but got no response.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] collinssc:
Try Duttys cab collection when it comes back up or well I 'd attach it but it is not on this laptop

oh wait here it is View attachment Intent_MIDlet_manager.cab
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] DaveShaw:
Here's a link for one http://www.winmobiletech.com/092007MidletBible/Cloudyfa_EsmertecJbed.cab
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
I am not sure, I have not seen this happen due to a rom flash. Have u tried to flash to a different radio? This may be your issue.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] lsdmt:
Yup I started with stock att radio and am now using 12.32. I could try another one but it was showing that I was roaming even with the stock radio. I am in the state of Montana with a North Carolina phone number which probably explains it but I did not roam once the first week I had the phone with the standard rom here.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] NotATreoFan:
It's definitely a regional issue. I cannot get to this site from work (SSL error), but I can get there using my Tilt.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] samsat:
If you try here

http://www.cinetsystems.com/xda/index.php?path=TouchFlo/DualTouch+Editions

you will get a page not found error, but if you go here

http://www.cinetsystems.com/xda/TouchFlo/DualTouch Editions/

it should work (does for me anyway).

I am in the A$$ end of the world with pathetic bandwidth and really low down on the food chain, I cant understand why I can acess the site but not you guys in 1st world countries!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] NotATreoFan:
I saw this behavior once before on my 8125, and it ended up that the radio I was using 2.69, didn't flash correctly. Once I downgraded the radio, and then put it back to 2.69, the roam icon disappeared and never came back.

You won't have to worry about extra charges is you have a nationwide plan on your account. I use AT&T Nationwide 450, so I don't worry when roaming shows up because I don't have to pay a premium. Although this has yet to happen with my Tilt.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] subnet99:
The issue looks to me to be due to a site migration. I would guess www.cinetsystems.com is moving to a new server. The reason this appears to be regional is a DNS issue. The new site address has most likely not propagated globally to all ISP's yet and could normally take up to 24 hours.

Just my take on it anyway....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] moopile:
Any chance you will be testing these using 3G instead of Edge?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] DaveShaw:
This is probably todo with the Servers Between here and where the Physical Data Centre with the server in is. Trust me, this is a strange error. Some people can get the error and the working site just by changing PC.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] moopile:
12.32 Works best in Memphis for me. Although, I may try to find the program Alltheway used and test Memphis 3G myself.

p.s. Try to stay dry in Memphis today.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] AvinashDhaniraj:
Speaker Phone Activated when Keyboard opened

Would it be possible to activate the loud speaker phone when the keyboard is opened in phone mode?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] lsdmt:
Thanks for the reply. I was an idiot and didn't write down my original radio. I am going to try flashing 12.11 and see if the roaming stays. 12.11 is proving to get the best battery life anyway so it wouldn't be a bad idea. Thanks again.

Newb question:

Is downgrading just reflashing an older, or is it a different process?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] collinssc:
This is prob very accurate... Diagnostics tools reveal recent updates in the last couple of hours... that said it will be back up when it is up.. maybe this time dutty can get his posts up in the new thread befor everyone starts biting at the meat... so for the moment just sit there and drool..... and try and be patient...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] :
man.... patient??? What's that? With a society that can't wait longer than 2 minutes to heat up lunch (I love hot pockets) how can you expect us to wait longer than that! hahaha
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
yes downgrading is just flashing - no more no less. good luck with your issue. report back and let us know if it fixes it. u might want to also report your findings in the sticky regarding the radios ponch started.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] sdlopez83:
I am checking these posts like a pheening crack head. and drooling we are...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] xhellionx:
seriously...i've been messing around with Alex's MM ROM the last couple days and it's pretty nice. but i'll be honest, i haven't so much as loaded my SIM card yet because i'm waiting for 4b...which i anticipate to be the best of both worlds: dutty's stability and performance with enough room to add multiple cabs, etc. for customization. BRING IT!!! :eek:

P.S.

i hope the new 4b has this fast @ss Cube!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] lsdmt:
I reflashed 12.11 and now back to 12.32 and still showing roaming.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
while u were on .11 was it roaming? Are those the only two radios u have tried?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] lsdmt:
Yes to both of those questions, those just seemed to be the ones that most people were having success with. Another radio you would recommend?

I think I will just wait until 4b and reflash the whole rom then and see if that will help.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
personally i liked the .10 radio alot. i just keep going from radio to radio until i find a perfect one. if there is one. my journey might be an endless one but it keeps me occupied inbetween rom flashes.

u might just be in a poor reception area. u do have nationwide longdistance with at$t right?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] lsdmt:
Sure do, its just an annoyance as a lot of the settings change depending on whether or not you are roaming or not. My weather doesn't update for instance. Not a big deal though.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] trunks333:
the website down? its not working
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] DSmithZ28:
I am trying to resolve the problems I am having with the Today Screen on v4. Weather will not work with any of the work arounds, also, the contacts keep disappearing. Since the v4 today screen is part of the ROM, and cannot be deleted, is it possible to re-install an older Today screen plug to hopefully see if these cures the problems I am having? I was not sure there would be a conflict.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] c.b:
Read back a few pages.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
Since everyone as of late seems to be having problems with the search available through google and this forum I will answer your problems.

1. Contacts:

add them through your cube,

2. Weather:

Check

HERE

. It works.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] ComradeHaz:
P1Tater, would you mind pointing me toward a guide to 'cube' you consider reasonable. I've not really got a clue what it is, let alone how to make it work (I know the answers to the latter are in this thread) but it's kinda hard trying to make something work when I don't really know what it will do when it's 'working'!

Ta chap.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
Have you enabled it?

Try

here

. Its a pretty cool cube.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] mike-:
Hello Dutty,

Would you release that version in RED?

Mike-
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
Never rush the cook. U might not like how your food tastes. What do you do then?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] mike-:
It's not a rush... but a simple question! ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] DSmithZ28:
I tried all of the weather fixes. Trust me when I tell you I read the linked page you prvided three freakin times! That is also a very tough read you must admit. I have searched all of this website, and searched all of this thread. I stated this in my several posts.

I did however miss the cube post. I have not used the cube in the past, so I will read more on that.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Jibreil:
Please can you guide me how do I use the GPS Test function or app?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
I will admit it was alot to take in the first time i read it. I think I read it about 3 or 4 times myself. All you need is the .dll file on that site, HTC Home Customizer 1.05b (i think is the name). Add your city in the custom database of the home customizer and save. then copy the .dll file using the windows explorer to your phone windows directory. Then soft reset. works like a charm. I promise.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
just start it by clicking in the center. let it run until it says gps running. then exit. then start any gps software u have.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] dsellers2:
Tater you are a Q&A King
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Jibreil:
Thanks for the lightning reply (appreciate it). Sorry but I didn't quite follow what you mean't by "just start it by clicking in the center" Which app/tool are you pointing at?

EDIT: I really don't know where the GPS Test tool exist, may be you can point me to the right direction.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
somewhere in this thread is the location of the gps test program. To be totally honest, i dont feel like searching for it or i would locate it for you. when u find it, then do what i stated earlier. The location was stated somewhere in this thread, I promise. I just feel lazy right now.:)

ok, the lazy feeling went away.

Here

is the post where the gps test was located.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] j.a:
Here you go:

GPSTest:

Program Files-->Chartcross-->GPSTest-->Bin-->GPSTest.exe

If thats the location you were looking for ;)

Edit: Ooops Just saw you posted the link.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Kusto:
sorry but I cannot download from http://www.cinetsystems.com/xda/index.php?path=TouchFlo/DualTouch+Editions/ because first it telling me to make https and then doesnt let download :( could you please help me with this because I want to try this ROM
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
there is a mirror posted in this thread somewhere

HERE
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Hdstreetglide:
Gee I just love ur answers! u r such a guru and sooooo sweet! LMAO
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
BITE ME - Everyone be quiet, the police are here:D

just playing
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Hdstreetglide:
Chomp...chomp.....chomp.....shhhhhhhh.....chomp
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] realslimb:
im having a little problem.. all my texts are sending 2 or 3 times. anyone else have this problem?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
dont hit the send more than once.:D

Quick question. Does anyone know if you can use the Tilt with Verizon wireless or anyone doing it already?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Zoisite:
Sorry, not possible. Verizon is a CDMA carrier and does not use SIM cards. Even if they did, the kaiser lacks the hardware to work with the Verizon network.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] P1Tater:
Thanks friend. I'm asking for a friend who's looking for a new phone. He's looking at the LG voyager.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] briggs81:
Ahhhhh no dutty flash syndrome is taking affect.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jimvaughan:
http://www.cinetsystems.com/xda/Kaiser Radio Only Upgrades/KAIS_Radio_Only_1.27.12.11_CustomRUU.rar

Gives me:

The page must be viewed over a secure channel

The page you are trying to access is secured with Secure Sockets Layer (SSL).

Please try the following:

* Type https:// at the beginning of the address you are attempting to reach and press ENTER.

HTTP Error 403.4 - Forbidden: SSL is required to view this resource.

Internet Information Services (IIS)

Technical Information (for support personnel)

* Go to Microsoft Product Support Services and perform a title search for the words HTTP and 403.

* Open IIS Help, which is accessible in IIS Manager (inetmgr), and search for topics titled About Security, Secure Sockets Layer (SSL), and About Custom Error Messages.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] ComradeHaz:
Only got DualTouch v4 and Radios v1.27.12.11 and 1.27.12.17 but I'm hosting them on my server at http://haz.red-army.org.uk/xdaDevelopers

Hope this helps. :)

Hazza
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] jimvaughan:
That helps!!!

I was looking for radio 1.27.12.11.

Many thanks...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] m4rkm4rk:
My friend informed me today that my texts are going out in multiples on occasion, as well.

What ROM/radio are you using?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] duttythroy:
I'm off to bed now, good luck and thanks again for using my Rom. chao:)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] duttythroy:
I think I deleted a file by accident when trying to tidy the rom up with unnecessary files, as i said should be a easy fix:)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] ramontrotman:
i can't help but say...this is why there should have been a beta 2. oh well...who the hell uses that any way!!! ONWARD WITH THE FESTIVITES!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Carlis:
Gnite Dutty..

And for the record .. its not you how should say thank's ..

It's we , all the Flash junkie's that should..

So .. THANK YOU DUTTY. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] deeznuts:
OMG

Even using winzip 11.1 the newest version, i still cant install this rom because of whatever error 240 is. Guess ill just wait till v4 final comes out cus if you cant even open the rom install program, what does that tell you? Oh well.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] petervbeck:
use this 7Zip version and you don't have any problems...?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] dionisij:
call center

Dutty,

proportion with which posts are piling up you should have call center in India by now or smth similar :)

Thx for the ROM. Quality matters.

Dio
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] easycure1974:
I noticed that also :( I have always had this annoying keyboard lag in every rom when typing fast and yes the autocomplete is disabled. But in this rom it is more annoying than ever, and I have reflashed and made hard resets several times.

Sorry, was reading the thread and then looked on the telly and didn´t refresh the page so when I posted it has already been answered :) Didn´t think that the crappy XT9 was in the rom :) Can confirm that disabling XT9 did the trick, now the keyboard works fast and nice

Edited
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] fastblack:
My favorites are getting removed on every soft reset... Same thing that happened to an earlier release of yours that you fixed... any idea?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] Poetique:
The cube is behaving very oddly for me.

The few times I actually get it to start, it won't actually spin. It starts on the contacts side, and won't move. Not to mention the only way to shut it down is to hit the "end call" button.

Already did a hard reset too.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] dan13l:
No need to get snooty chief, t'was an honest mistake. Last rom had xt9 taken out, this time it's back in.

Your solution (easily installed from my storage card from the last time I used it) worked beautifully.

Thanks for taking the time to find me a solution ;)

Beyond that: lovely rom. Beautiful work once again. Will give it a bit more time before I post a more in-depth analysis.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] deeznuts:
Did that with same error

My original post i did use 7 zip and got the same error as using the newest winzip program. I put in dutty's password for 2nd post, go through 2 screens on custom ruu, then on the third screen i get the error and have to exit. I downloaded the 53 mb v4.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] freewind29:
Same here! But V3 was fine for me.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] AllTheWay:
Not a problem. I didn't mean to be snooty be any means...I am very genuine person once you get to know me. Shhh p1tater and ja and rzanology. LOL.

I'm glad I was of assistance!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] kbeggs:
Hard Reset

so after installing the rom It's best to do a hard rest? When should this happen when its asking to do a screen alignment ?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] AllTheWay:
No...when the screen pops up "Tap here to begin to set up your device." Then do a hard reset
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] dwny:
Funny

You guys wanted it....you got it!

Everyone complaining about what doesn't work .... this is a developer's forum.

Developers create and fix .... not whine, ***** and ask how to or when it's gonna be fixed!

As stated earlier, I hope the 1st 20 pages are deleted.

A lot of you suck and should go back to a motorola razr!

Thanks to the beta testers who went for days with broke phones....!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] AllTheWay:
I agree I regret already what I said earlier...I blew up!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Windows Mobile ROM De] ramontrotman:
i dont know what you're talking...you're a scum bag just like the rest of us!!!!