yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Cruise General] Straputsky:
As if it is that easy. At mobihand they regularly check orders to avoid fraudulent transactions, to protect their customers and their suppliers (they said so). They asked for my phone number where they can call me back to make sure that I'm the actual credit card holder. Yeah, how can they verify me with a phone call? Despite we are talking about a software for about 20$.

I refused to give them my telephone number and they canceled the order. So I'm back to TCPMP and hoping for a driver release (or I find a shop where I can buy it via bank transfer).
[Touch Cruise General] kwbr:
Breaking News! "New driver end of March"

www.htcclassaction.org

New responses from February 14, 2008

Breaking News!

"New driver end of March"

A response from Peter Chou himself (CEO of HTC) has surfaced saying they hope to release a driver at the end of March. Examination of the e-mail and its SMTP headers verifies with very high certainty that this e-mail indeed originated at HTC Taiwan. Ofcourse we have also written our own e-mail to Peter Chou to ask for confirmation.

So, this certainly seems to be legit. Ofcoure the question remains wether it's ultimately true - we certainly hope so!.

If you look at this together with the WMExperts Insider Q+A article, this could even mean that HTC is doing completely the opposite of what most people think: instead of leaving us hanging they are actually going the extra mile!

This may be what we've all been hoping for!
[Touch Cruise General] TTboy404:
Going the extra mile?

I am sorry, they should have put the driver in my brand new phone, instead of telling me to buy a new one in the near future. And they just announced the Sony Ericsons Xeperia X1 (made by HTC!). That is nothing but crass and horrible. And just dead wrong. Even if we get a driver, i doubt I will buy another htc phone.

I was appalled the first time i ripped a movie from my hard drive to the device. Audio and video out of synch, and that wmv file, well, i would call that internet video chat, on dial up from 1998. I am not kidding.

Edit, there is post in kaiser forums, about a blogger and the SE Xeperia X1, that it is suspected to be the same chip set we have, and S E is dodging questions on the video driver issue and that phone will not be released until June or later. The blogger tried to pin them down with a defin answer, and SE would not commit to if this driver issue was solved. Engadget already posted HTC was making the phone, but it is being marketed by SE. Bad sign. I hate to be a "doom"er. Really makes you wonder what is going on here.

Lets hope this driver materializes.
[Touch Cruise General] TheOnly1:
LG KS520 Service Manual:

http://rapidshare.de/files/38526183/EN_KS20_SVC_ENG_1123_1.0_.pdf.html

Very entertaining lecture :D According to it we should really have hardware 2D and 3D + hardware accelerated Java and some more bells & whistles. Wonder how the KS520 performs. Are there any hardware accelerated games out there besides Call of Duty 2, which requires a GoForce 5500 for hardware mode :confused:
[Touch Cruise General] BoBka:
Xperia X1 not "made by HTC", but "ASSEMBLED by HTC". All Research&Development made by SE.
[Touch Cruise General] manaaa:
good news!

new response, check the updates on first page!
[Touch Cruise General] JNGold:
Don't get too excited. Engadget is reporting:

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...o-for-affected-devices-no-drivers-i/#comments
[Touch Cruise General] LargePig:
Oh no, this isn't going to work.....
[Touch Cruise General] JulianL:
The more I see of this unfolding saga the more I am convinced that it has to all come down to money otherwise why on earth are HTC making life so difficult for themselves? It would almost certainly be easier (in terms of performance improvement per software engineering day expended) to integrate a driver for hardware acceleration (if it exists) rather than trawl through the rest of the software stack looking for incremental improvements (as the Engadget article claims).

Either Qualcomm/ATI are asking for a non-trivial licensing fee from HTC in order to supply the drivers or else HTC cut a good price deal on the MSM7200 for these devices in return for not having access to some or all of the video hardware acceleration capabilities, the denial of access either implemented via a contractual agreement (in which case third parties that can still get at the hardware could still make use of it) or by deliberately crippling it on the chip.

- Julian
[Touch Cruise General] MrSmith22:
Without a doubt it is about money. A lot of technologies are rolled out before they are ready - Microsoft Vista being a prime candidate.
[Touch Cruise General] kwbr:
Video acceleration drivers for HTC devices are on their way.

Video acceleration drivers for HTC devices will see the light of the day, said Dr. Florian Seiche vice president of HTC Europe during the World Mobile Congress interview in Barcelona last week. After all they will bring these devices to its full potential.

Does anayone still understand it? Guess we have to wait.

Fudzilla
[Touch Cruise General] ZeuBug:
For Frenchies...

See here: http://www.mobinaute.com/126670-htc-promet-drivers-video-smartphones-touch-dual.html

HTC promet de nouveaux drivers vidéo pour ses smartphones

Il y a quelques mois, un groupe de possesseurs de smartphones sous Windows Mobile commercialisés par HTC s'est réuni pour dénoncer leurs problèmes supposés de performance. Ces problèmes concernaient majoritairement les drivers vidéo des terminaux en question, les rendant moins puissants que d'autres smartphones commercialisés par d'autres marques.

Après avoir officiellement répondu à ce sujet une première fois, pour préciser que les smartphones de HTC ne sont pas réellement prévus pour faire fonctionner des applications multimédia gourmandes en ressources processeur et mémoire, le taïwanais est finalement revenu sur cette annonce. Et c'est Peter Chou en personne, le CEO de HTC, qui a tenu à apporter des précisions sur ces problèmes notés de performances vidéo.

Celui-ci espère désormais que de nouveaux drivers vidéo seront disponibles à la fin du mois de mars prochain. Florian Seiche, le vice-président de HTC Europe approuve en déclarant pour sa part que « des drivers permettant l'accélération vidéo sur des terminaux HTC verra prochainement le jour ».

En attendant, les développeurs du forum Modaco ont publié une petite mise à jour destinée à être appliquée sur le PDAPhone HTC Touch Dual. Non disponible sur les réseaux HTC Club car non officielle, elle permet comme son nom l'indique de corriger une erreur de saisie du terminal sous Windows Mobile doté de 12 touches. En appuyant sur la touche « abc », c'était par défaut le « c » qui s'affichait et non le « a » comme il est d'usage sur d'autres mobiles.
[Touch Cruise General] dib_uk:
...and for non french speakers, by way of babelfish

HTC promises new video drivers for its smartphones A few months ago, a group of owners of smartphones under Windows Mobile marketed by HTC met to denounce their supposed problems of performance. These problems mainly related to the video drivers of the terminals in question, making them less powerful than of others smartphones marketed by other marks. After answerhaving officially answered on this subject first once, to specify that the smartphones HTC are not really designed to make function greedy applications multi-media in resources processor and memory, taïwanais it finally reconsidered this advertisement. And it is Peter Chou in person, the CEO of HTC, which made a point of bringing precise details on these noted problems of video performances. This one hopes from now on that new video drivers will be available to the end of next March. Florian Cuttlefish, the vice-president of HTC Europe approves by declaring for its part that "drivers allowing video acceleration on terminals HTC will be born soon". While waiting, the developers of the Modaco forum published a small update intended to be applied to PDAPhone HTC Touch Dual. Nonavailable on nonofficial networks HTC Club bus, it allows as its name indicates it to correct an error of seizure of the terminal under Windows Mobile equipped with 12 keys. By pressing on the key "ABC", it was by defect "C" which were posted and not "A" as it is of use on other mobiles.
[Touch Cruise General] gnick666:
now that's a relief...

Google tranlates it to: "It now hopes that new drivers video will be available at the end of March next year"
[Touch Cruise General] wonderiuy:
OMG check this:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,58447

So no driver...just a cab with some tweaks.

Write to AMD (ATI) every1, united again!!
[Touch Cruise General] Surfboomerang:
after my (very) little success on mailing ATI. I asked all XDA members to unite and send a driver request to ATI. A lot of them did, but I don't see any reactions they got from ATI posted here.

What did ATI send as response to you all? plz post
[Touch Cruise General] boart:
Ati was forwarding my reply to the responsible divison.. after that, i got no reply
[Touch Cruise General] Yzord:
This was already confirmed a few weeks earlier. They wont write a driver...they just do some tweaks, thats it.

We all have to wait for a device wich uses the whole chipset and maybe there will be someone who makes the driver apart from the device and make it compatible with our devices.
[Touch Cruise General] mbze430:
If this is all about money.. why not use the funds that was raised for the class action lawsuit and offer that money to HTC to pay the "bill"....??
[Touch Cruise General] gnick666:
Because that won't cover the bill....
[Touch Cruise General] MrSmith22:
I paid them the first time when I bought my phone... I don't want to pay them again.
[Touch Cruise General] B3rry:
Nice point ;)
[Touch Cruise General] Surfboomerang:
So... same answer I got.
[Touch Cruise General] JulianL:
Sorry, but I don't think it's as clear as that. You very probably didn't pay for the device drivers the first time. What if Qualcomm/ATI are charging $10 per unit shipped for the drivers? Companies like HTC need to watch the bill of materials (BOM) on their devices very carefully if they are to maintain a profitable business and they are marketing this device as a smartphone and not an Archos-beater. In this scenario then would you pay another $20 more on the original purchase price of this phone for this driver? More to the point, I have absolutely no interest in watching video on my device so I would not want to see the cost of everyone's device driven up by $20.

Now, if the reason for not having these drivers is not cost but is just lazyness by HTC, or if HTC can negotiate/convince Qualcomm that so much bad publicity is being generated around their chipset that it is worth their while putting out these drivers for free, then OK but people can't just expect more and more to be loaded into the BOM with no effect on the end-user price.

- Julian
[Touch Cruise General] MrSmith22:
I wouldn't go that far back and state there was lack of funding for the drivers in the manufacturing process. I also wouldn't assume that the BOM had anything to do with lack of driver support as it would be silly to assume that HTC bought hardware without purchasing the necessary drivers to run that hardware.

We know that HTC has had driver issues in the past, to me, and this is just speculation, but it seems they roll-out devices every few months to stay ahead of the game sacrificing quality over quantity sold.
[Touch Cruise General] JulianL:
As you say, "this is just speculation" and if anyone here knows any inside info then they're probably under NDA and would never post it here. It's just that my impression is that 90% of the speculation in this thread is based on a set of assumptions that casts HTC as the villians so every now and then I feel an urge to suggest some possible scenarios where HTC aren't a complete bunch of charlatans but did actually make rational business decisions that got them to where they are at the moment.

As an example you say "it would be silly to assume that HTC bought hardware without purchasing the necessary drivers to run that hardware". Well, in this context (and again speculating about a few details) it is perfectly possible because the hardware in question is just one small corner of silicon on the Qualcomm MSM7200, I'd guess far less than 10% of the gate-count on the chip. The device is demonstrably functional without using the video hardware acceleration so HTC might have made a decision that the MSM7200 was the best value all-in-one solution even if they just ignored the video acceleration. As they have now found out though, there is more that just the cost/technical aspects to a decision like this.

I was a bit worried that I'd get some really hostile responses to my last post so I thank you (MrSmith22) for your non-confrontational response. Your comment re HTC that "they roll-out devices every few months to stay ahead of the game sacrificing quality over quantity sold" is not something that ever factored into my speculation because I am not a long-time HTC watcher so I don't have this historical perspective and it is clearly an interesting and relevant factor to add into the equation.

I have no idea where the truth lies, and I'm certainly not aggressively arguing that anything I say is correct, I'm just trying to add some different perspectives to the debate.

- Julian
[Touch Cruise General] B3rry:
Julian, the basic point of your argumentation is good in his substance.

Market is like a jungle and only the strongest and most aggressive individual (productor) can survive.

After this prologue, we must get back to our role, which is to think as consumers and not as producers. By this point of view you'll have to notice that graphic acceleration (I don't really need it, it's just a matter of principle) is a feature already supported in very very old devices like toshiba e800, which actually costs less than 100$.

Actually, the status of the market is such that a top level product like touch cruise should support video acceleration by default.

Many direct competitors of HTC, like nokia, invested a lot in the field of multimedia. I wouldn't like the polaris to be "all multimedia" and no "substance"; neither I expect a 5Mpix camera with a high quality lens. But I can say as well I don't want to buy a 600$ dollar worth device which comes out with gross bugs like this one. I think this has to do with the image and dignity of us as consumerst (what will ppl say of us, buying "top level" devices not even being able to run a simple video?) and of HTC as producer.

Saying that a production process is something in which there are not many real choices because everything is imposed by market rules and by budget issues is something which is not our question.

Quality/price is.

If we start behaving like HTC fans with no criticism at all, they'll think they can do everything they want with us, like selling us unfinished products. Which is not true, at least for me.
[Touch Cruise General] Straputsky:
I agree with B3rry. As a customer I expect some multimedia capabilities from my "top of the range" product. HTC is aware of that too (their advise to buy their future products to have better multimedia experiences shows this). They (HTC) thought that the new devices offer enough power compared to the older ones (400 MHz, two core design, doubled ram size). That isn't bad, but is it enough?

I think Julian is right, wenn he said that HTC didn't include the drivers to lower the BOM. Given the hardware there should have been a signifikant performance boost even without drivers.

So far there are two problems. One is, that the chip seems to be underperforming. Second is that we can't overclock the chip. HTC is now blamed for low performance and looking for a solution. One is to buy the drivers (what would be very expensive, I think) the other is to tweak the rom so it runs faster.

In my opinion HTC has cut the BOM too much in this case. I think they have already known about the bad video performance and still tried to sell it without tweaking to keep costs low. Now people figured out the "bug" and HTC tries to compensate the damage (at lowest costs possible). But I think the image of HTC has fallen a bit. It's not the smartest way to make us "freaks" angry cause very often we recommend these devices to other "normal" people.
[Touch Cruise General] tea3:
Just wanted to add that I change my Eten M600 (2 years old and Samsung 400 Mhz) for the Cruise Qualcomm 400 Mhz .

I discovered that:

-all the basic programs run slower because of slower refreshing of the screen images

-it's impossible to take a picture when you're inside because of slow video (so 3 MP = 0MP) ....sorry with a tripod , if the subject is still....

-and I have many freeze , because the Cruise can't stand refreshing the screen

-M600 is globally faster and smoother than the Cruise

I don't think that is what we are waiting for a 600 euro device . I'm not talking about watching videos (I got my Ipod for that) ,because even with video acceleration , the battery life is too poor .

Anyway , maybe my first HTC will be the last .

By the way ...I would love WM6 on an Iphone
[Touch Cruise General] nikiiv:
Polaris is one of the most expensive devices so BOM should not be the problem of including video drivers
[Touch Cruise General] MrSmith22:
Obviously this is all speculation but again I don't think it has anything to do with the BOM. HTC rolled-out the Touch as an iPhone competitor but soon afterwards we heard that they were working on a GPS enabled "multimedia" device we know as the Cruise. Again, to me all the evidence just suggests that they roll these devises out to capture whatever naive marketshare they can at the time ultimately cutting corners. This is not the first time that HTC has had driver issues, indeed if you check some of the other devices there are driver issues and complaints there too. There is also no question as to whether HTC are marketing this as a multemedia device as it clearly indicates this on their website.

Anyway I am looking forward to trying this cab version of a "fix", and all I can say is that it had better fix the problems because this phone is costing me £600.
[Touch Cruise General] TheOnly1:
Smith: The Polaris is the direct succesor of the Artemis in every aspect. It offers the same features (GPS, FM Radio, WiFi), an evolved design and more RAM + much faster CPU. The Artemis btw has many virtues, but multimedia was never 1 of them :D
[Touch Cruise General] dardar2:
Each time I read the page 2 of DTCOL_2007FEB15_AVDE_RFR_AN_01.pdf

It makes me cry :(

Information shown in this document is only exemplary of QUALCOMM products.

QUALCOMM reserves the right to make changes, at any time and without notice, to its

products that may cause its products to differ from the information shown in this document.
[Touch Cruise General] calarfe:
Done today.
[Touch Cruise General] sedde:
Done as well
[Touch Cruise General] lazik:
Done today.
[Touch Cruise General] 2hot4tv:
I send this text:

"I bought the brand new Touch Cruise in Germany and bought it as PocketPC with great Multimedia Performance. But after using my device I noticed that my last device (HTC P4350) was faster with 200 MHz less than the Touch Cruise.

Another point which makes me dissatisfied is the very very slow 3mp Camera! I can't take good Photos and Videos with it and why in this expensive device with GPS, UMTS etcetera no Flash for the Camera like in every cheap mobile of other manufacturers?

I have to say, that I expected more from a PDA/phone that cost 499,99€ in Germany.

I thought you're working on the hardware acceleration problem as I read the statements of Mr. Peter Chou and Dr. Florian Seiche on http//www.htcclassaction.org.

But now I'm very frustrated because of the news from February 21, 2008 that the coming soon update doesn't contains the necessary driver and the statement that it's expensive to develope this driver - I mean the affected devices aren't cheap and I think it is worth for customers contentment.

Thank you for listening to customers’ voice."
[Touch Cruise General] shaun0207:
I signed. You might wanna change the title of thread though
[Touch Cruise General] surgex0:
this is extremely frustrating

ive been reading through the multitude of threads on this forum and other articles for over 5 days now

alot of the stuff is over my head just plain confusing...

i did write in a complaint to HTC just now...who knows if all of our complaints will accomplish anything

i'm about to give up on the reading and i'm quite sure that i have nothing to contribute to this struggle other than my complaints and continued support as i know nothing about mobile programming and drivers, etc..

best of luck to all the guys who are working hard on this

maybe someday soon there will be justice for HTC customers

though i seriously doubt that the one providing the justice will be HTC
[Touch Cruise General] logan602041:
1 more voice for the struggle.

Done as asked, I sent message below, pls feel free to copy cut paste from it, and lets support these guys and pile all possible pressure on HTC at:

http://member.htc.com/CustomerService/CS_Mail.aspx

I recently bought an Orbit 2, as I know it is an HTC device and I associate HTC with quality and innovative, reliable products.

However I am mortified by the performance of this device, the specs tell one story but the experience of using it certainly tell another.

Surely your devices should be getting better not worse my previous device operated much faster than this with far inferior specs.

An internet search points to the the conclusion that HTC have not included proper drivers for this device maybe this is also the reason for the practically unusable camera too.

I support HTC in the innovation of their products but I truly expected a much better device than I got, I hope HTC set about fixing this major problem quickly or I for one will not be purchasing HTC products again!

I was encouraged by statements by Mr. Peter Chou and Dr. Florian Seiche on www.htcclassaction.org. but HTC really need to get an official statement out on this subject ASAP and then get our devices up and running as they should have been in the first place.

Yours Faithfully.
[Touch Cruise General] puremind:
Complaint to HTC

And this is my text:

I used to have an HTC Trinity but sent it back because I didn't manage to get it in White and also because HTC never unlocked the GPS functionality (even though the device was marketed as a GPS device at the start).

I bought a Nokia N95, which was stolen 2 weeks ago.

I decided to give HTC a second chance and purchased the HTC Touch Cruise.

But I have many issues with it. The video playback is MUCH WORSE than on the Trinity which is 2 years older.

The camera is unusable because even micro-movements create a blur on the end picture. The video refresh rate is just very poor.

Tom Tom is also much slower.

And sometimes it takes up to 3 seconds for a menu item to open (in spite of 50% free memory).

I am unhappy about the multimedia performance, which was supposed to be the best to date.

Only TouchFlo and the other regular functions work as advertised.

My only reason to go with HTC instead of Nokia was Video Playback in VGA definition, though. It worked on my Trinity, why is it so slow on the Polaris?

I think this new issue estalishes HTC as a company rich in false promises, one that ceases to care about customers post-sales. You got me twice, and unless HTC shows commitment to deliver on their advertising, I will move away from HTC and I am sure many others disgruntled by HTC'S rush to market tactics will do the same.
[Touch Cruise General] gnick666:
I know Android isn't very popular around here... but i found something interesting :D

http://www.helloandroid.com/node/22
[Touch Cruise General] NatronCH:
sounds interesting to me too... but they wrote only the specs of the msm7k but did not mention what is actually implemented in the kernel.

aren't blit copy, rotate and alpha blend some of the gdi features?

http://git.android.com/?p=linux-msm.git;a=commit;h=e8fd56a303bf5e8f84af80999fa398eb8cc1d670

and isn't gdi the most important part missing to get the devices to respond faster?