yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
That makes it even more rediculous.

It's pathetic they can't make one ROM that would make us all happy and enjoy the device as it should be :(

I hope a lot of people consider twice before they buy from HTC again.

Maybe a nice LG next time!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kinetice:
Google android anyone?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] thimiost:
what is android?

i have seen it a lot of times
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] maxh:
There's a website called SueEasy.com that helps start class action lawsuits. Part of me wants to shake my head as I utter "despicable" under my breath, as I think the U.S. is already way too lawsuit happy, but some other part of me went ahead and filled out their form to start one.

Here's the link if you wanna join:

http://www.sueeasy.com/litigants.php?class_action_case_detail=239
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Infuruno:
Why don't we wait for the official 6.1 rom and see from then on if a lawsuit is nessesary maybe the promised 'fix' will be bundled with it.....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Rudegar:
doubt any lawsuit would be won

unless htc settled to avoid bad pr

unless they market the kaiser or other devices

as multimedia 3d monster devices then

omitting features is not basis of a lawsuit

they have other products where wifi and gps and 3g is disabled

even if the cpu have it onchip and enabling them would not be too

much trouble for them

so htc being too cheap to pay qualcomm for the right driver

would never be enough to win

unless you got official htc marting material where they boast the migthy 3d and video performance of the qualcomm cpu of their kaiser or other htc wm phone

lady justice is blind and see only the law never unfairness or cheapness of a company

of cause i'm no lawyer
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
I recall many people suggested waiting for the "official fix" that was due by end of March, before continuing with the Class Action. That's why we now have no fix, no media interest and no momentum.

HTC 1: Kaiser users 0.

There are quite a few links here to advertising and promotional material that touted the Kaiser's credentials as a multimedia machine. Whilst they didn't specifically promise 3D acceleration, they did imply that the video playback and camera functions at least would be much better than they turned out to be.

Good for you, maxh

EDIT: Checked out the link. Seems that only residents of the US and Canada can file a complaint in this Class Action.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Infuruno:
Example from my old post :-
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
Thank you maxh!

I will write them too and hopefully other users here on the forums will join the effort.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ?Glitch:
If Palm can't get away with it, why should HTC...?

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/pdas/palm-treo-class-action-lawsuit-126639.php
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
Here is another lawfirm that we might approach:

http://www.techfirm.com/

Who is best qualified to contact them and explain the issue?

Chainfire?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
Should have been the hitman chainfire found a few months ago, though the guy walked out.

Honestly, I am afraid to say that not much will be done as no one stands up to overtake Chainfire's work (the guy seems to have no more time to be as active on this as before)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
I work pretty long hours on my job ... and just invested in a company of a friend of mine, so I am spending any free minute pitching in there too. Otherwise, I would be all over this.

Anybody qualified and available to be the point man for all of us on xda dev regarding the htc driver issue?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
??????????????
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
These guys apparently have the expertise to take on tech firms like Palm. Our situation with HTC isn't much different. This may be a good route. Wonder if they're aware of HTCClassAction.org website...?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Kurni:
This topic is losing momentum.

Is this the time to write it off?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
Nobody seems to be willing/have the time to write a letter/fax/email to the lawfirms mentioned in this thread and describe the issue.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] SouthernLuke:
Get on it then.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cowdar1:
kaiser drivers R.I.P
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] david9541:
Sprint replacing the Mogul

Sprint is coming out with a replacement for the Mogul. From past experiences with other mfg that means not more development. Confirms we will never get video drivers for the mogul. Oh well I guess it is easer to upgrade then fight. Sorry I don't have the time or brains to do the legal thing.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Digitaltigre:
my thoughts

I guess we just take this as a lesson learned. I don't think I'll get my $700 back or any retribution or satisfaction from this company. I can promise you that I won't fall for this again. I have a strong feeling that HTC sends out one device to get reviewed and then delivers another to customers. They aren't getting my uninformed dollar anymore. I'd like to take this moment to remind everybody about Nvidia's new chip APX 2500. Devices based on it will not be a baby step forward but a huge leap. This gives me hope that I will one day finally get what i keep hoping and paying for in vain.

For the future I really wish we could get some mainstream reviewers to do two things for us.

1) Benchmark every device they review

2) ROM dump every device they review

This would definitively tell us if we are getting bait and switched and allow us to pull the elusive drivers if that's the case.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Boinng:
I'd just like to remind everyone that, ironically, this is exactly the kind of thing that inflated expectations of the Kaiser. Remember when Qualcom's latest effort was being held up as the new wonder chip? Look where that got us!

The Nvidia may well be an amazing chip, but if the Kaiser has taught us anything, it should be that the chip is nothing without the proper driver, accompanying hardware, and software support. Please, please, please don't anyone get suckered into thinking again that buying the first new phone with the latest greatest chip is the answer to everything!

I can be fairly neutral on this subject, I didn't pay much for my Kaiser, my expectations weren't so high, and video isn't a killer app for me - but still, I won't be looking at another HTC device - or indeed any device - until the real world reports are in. I'm not interested in assumptions, or expectations, or paper specifications, or glossy previews - I want to know what genuine users in forums like this think when it hits the stores, and that's it. Everything else can decieve.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
Do you guys think that HTC will offer some kind of low-cost trade-up program with the Touch/Mogul to the Raphael/Diamond models?

I'd trade my Touch for the Diamond + $100 if it meant hardware acceleration.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] margatenj:
best solution for this device

I think I just saw the best solution for this device on ebay... they're selling for 300 bucks used. end of problem.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Portugal. The Man:
I'm just wondering which stage they are on? I mean, are they trying to rewrite the driver, or do something else? I've never seen a post (or page) that details what their 'aim' is and what stage they are on.

I would gladly donate if I had some indication of a set list of tasks and where they currently are.

I've read many many many threads, so if I missed that particular site, I apologize in advance.

_____________________________

Up to the Northern Territories
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] qrasher:
Not buying any more HTC devices

I recently bought the HTC Touch Cruise, and considering the current situation with HTC I have decided that I will NOT be buying any more HTC products in the future. EVER
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Digitaltigre:
I couldn't agree more. We need to remember the lessons that we've learned. For me it was an expensive one. I've learned not to just expect harware capabilities to be included in the final product and not to trust reviews on preproduction units. Also, HTC has burned a bridge and I'll never trust them again regardless of any move they make. I'm still very excited about this new chip though. I can't help it. When it gets closer to hitting the streets it would be silly to be talking about if the next HTC device will have VGA and/or 3d drivers. The APX 2500 is so much more than that.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
Just don't buy HTC.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Rednes:
dutch: http://www.allaboutphones.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1979

"HTC heeft naar verluid al intresse getoond in deze chip en volgens Nvidia zal het eerste model van "een" producent dus vanaf 2009 op de markt zijn."

english:

"HTC allready showed their interest in this chip and according to Nvidia the first model will be available in 2009."

This will prolly make me choose for htc in the future...and I dont like it...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] drutort:
the nice thing is that its nvidia chip, that means probably a lot closer to drivers on pc's and with such a gpu intensive chip based there is no way they would skip out on drivers, if they did that would be really stupid, since the phones or presentations they had were all full 3D rendered.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] david9541:
You say "there is no way they would skip out on drivers"

We all saw the spec's for the Mogul and at that time said there is no way they would skip out on drivers. Guess what.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] calarfe:
Here

The owners of other HTC models can DIE !! :mad::mad::mad:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] adewidt:
Almost two week ago we (AllAboutPhones.nl) received some information that HTC bought graphicdriver licenses for the TytnII. It is a well informed source, but only one source. It is not a 100% confirmation directly from HTC.

Our Dutch article:

http://www.allaboutphones.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2585

Today I read on MSMobiles almost the same newsitem.

http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7334.html

I don't know their news source but I believe it is another source.

There is still a bit of hope for our Kaiser device :) .
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] FloatingFatMan:
Here's a babelfish translation of your news item, for those wanting to know. ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] adewidt:
That translation is terrible.

Here is a short summary:

HTC bought the graphic licenses for the HTC TytnII. The new ROM will be released end of this month. It is unknown if these drivers are also coming for other HTC devices.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Radeon123:
Really hope this is true.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] livefastdiefun87:
could be what we have all been waiting for
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] adewidt:
Today HTC has a press event in the Netherlands for the HTC Daimond.

I will try to contact a HTC employee (hopefully from a technical department) to ask a confirmation.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jyan_osu:
So if this is true... does this mean we give HTC the bounty? :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] SouthernLuke:
hmmm...specifically denounces the tilt.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChumleyEX:
Place your bets people. I have $5 says nothing good happens. Any Takers?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rakdoll:
wish I could.. but I believe miracles DO HAPPEN! ;)

But honestly..

Imagine if they are really going to release ROM update WITH the drivers.. I would be as surprised as I were when Jesus resurrected.. :|
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] thrash magazine:
Well that gives no hope for drivers if your an atheist :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pinobigbird:
HTC has confirmed the ROM update for TytnII with the drivers, today on the Dutch press event on the HTC Touch Diamond:

http://www.allaboutphones.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2585#p15207

Translated:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
Big Things 'Poppin!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cksewjmh8hM
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DaneMaximus:
If HTC comes out with the drivers first, would everyone who pledged to donate for the drivers be willing to pay HTC the money?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
They should(in the form of new Touch Diamonds, Raphaels, and other "new for 2008" HTC devices). Oh and the new HTC built, Sony Ericsson designed WinMo 6.1 device.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Boinng:
That would be an oh-so-clever question if it hadn't already been answered in the very first post of the driver pledging thread - http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1738945&postcount=1

And quite right too.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] daedric:
This video is not available in your country. <--- Is youtube playing games ? Did the Chinese Firewall arrived in my little, planted by the sea, country ?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
Just search "Big things poppin" by T.I.

Strange that you can't watch it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] evilc:
Ahh I wondered what it was that I kept seeing HTC employees in the lift with (Work in same building), it was a Diamond. Very nice looking handset, love the stealth fighter-esque angles on the back...

This is indeed potentially great news! If not true then I will just have to mug someone in the lift for a Diamond.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] adewidt:
I was at the press event today.

I asked them about the TytnII videodrivers.

The TytnII is the first device to receive a free upgrade to WM6.1.

The update will resolve most problems and will boost the graphics.

They did not say they bought driver licenses.

I can not confirm they activate the Ati chip or it is an improved directdraw driver.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] evilc:
Sounds like someone may have been partaking of too much of the "local delicacies" in holland, LOL.

Talking of which, I saw one of these containers on the back of a dutch lorry on the motorway tonight:

Now that's a big spliff! I guess the drugs traffickers are getting really brazen these days...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
Completely off topic but well spotted! Good catch ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Neo_matrix:
HTC has finally licensed it from Qualcomm? it´s true?

Update May 10, 2008: All About Phones [Dutch] also reports they were told by HTC there will be a ROM update for the TyTN II. From the page (translated from Dutch to English):

Q (All About Phones): What about the driver/rom-update for the TyTN II and other pda's by HTC ?

A (Mark Moons, HTC): I can confirm we will release a ROM-update for the TyTN II this month which will solve and improve most issues. This will also be a 6.1 update so the TyTN II will be completely up to date. I cannot confirm this for other devices.

All About Phones [Dutch] also states a source close to both All About Phones and HTC claims this update will contain hardware-accelerated drivers. According to that source, HTC has finally licensed it from Qualcomm.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kpcz:
Great, that means we still got hope :rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
yay!

yay!! :):)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
I won't hold my breath.

They already promised a driver by end of march ... now it's May.

Most likely scenario:

they will release WM6.1 and pretend that fixes the issue without any drivers or any attempt to fix the graphics issue.

Journalists and reviewers eat it up ... and customers get screwed.

Good PR at no/little cost.

Why would they release drivers?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Septastrum:
Some translated some of the dutch, and they have actually paid for the rights to use the software drivers now. If the implementation is rubbish then I have no doubts in my mind that dutty and his ilk will fix it! (Or at least make it better than what we have now!)

To be honest, it's a shame because I can see myself getting a new phone in 6 months or so, so to have had this for 8 months or so with some technical limitations is a bit annoying... ah well :p

As others have said, lets see the glass half full rather than half empty!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolsun85:
I also thik its a marketing gimmic, coz only two sites have stated this and other sites like engadget have not listed anything about the drivers except that wm 6.1 update is coming. This is just to improve image among non HTC owners so they think that HTC cares about it customers and do not take a back step from buying HTC Diamond which is coming in June. I think they will continue to say that the Update is coming until HTC diamond gets available and then they will retort back to the same line and say if you need a good graphics device buy htc diamond.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] evilc:
Bleh, to me that does not say hardware acceleration. Weren't they saying before that 6.1 would "improve most issues"?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rachidnl:
I though WM 6.1 had some new eye candy and other GUI improvements that would really need some kind of hardware acceleration to display properly...

For HTC, bundling drivers with an upgrade to 6.1 is smart: it makes Microsoft look good as unaware people will think that 6.1 has solved all their issues with slugishness. HTC then also will seemingly not have to take the blame for all the issues.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] janys:
I don't believe there are any drivers coming at all. It would be very unusual to provide such a big software package after several months since launch.

Another thing: HTC told us the fix is coming at the end of March. Nothing, silence. There was no sign at their webpage, fansites,... anywhere. And now - Netherlands. "blah blah blah, new HTC device will kick ass, blah blah and BTW we have a WM6.1 ROM with drivers ready for you to download for free."

Nyah, why keeping it all a secret? Honestly, I doubt they were preparing a surprise like "*yawn* let's check the internet... ZOMG DRIVERS!" Can't they officialy say "We have the drivers, you have to wait two weeks while we try to implement them in some way"? But, hey... they weren't able to tell us whether Kaiser has the legendary ATi chip or not :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rachidnl:
Surely, most people don't know that some of the problems they have with their Kaiser is down to video drivers. Even though quite a nice number of tech sites have reported on this, it wasn't enough to make the average, casual user aware of the lack of graphics drivers.

So, from a marketing perspective, it makes sense to put the positive news out that Kaiser is gonna get WM 6.1 without waking up unsuspecting people by telling them that their Kaiser was basically incomplete at purchase.

Of course you could call it unusual to recieve such a big update months after launch day, but the TyTN II is still HTC's flagship product (at least until Diamond's out) and the whole situation with lacking drivers is unusual in the first place. ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cyrilthefish:
Wonder if it's true... if it is i'll stop trolling comment posts about the HTC Diamond with comments about the HTC Kaiser's lack of drivers...

I spent a great deal of money on the Kaiser, so am very annoyed...

It takes quite a lot to get someone who was a loyal HTC buyer since the original HTC Canary WM device to actively try to steer people away from HTC, but they managed it...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] wilsonzone:
Most of us spent alot of money on our phones, I personally really like mine, sure it could be better, but then so could my Commodore 64, and that did not stop me from ugrading to an Intel 8088, Compaq 16 MHz 80386, Packard Bell 16 MHz 80386, Dell Pentium 60 MHz CPU & Windows 3.1, Hewlett-Packard Pentium Pro & Windows 95, Gateway Pentium 4 & Windows 2000 Pro, and then to numerous laptops. I will always be looking for better tech toys but for now I just feel ripped because we paid for somthing that has not been delivered.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Digitaltigre:
Thats a bad analogy...if you felt ripped off by Commadore then it SHOULD stop you from upgrading to THEIR NEXT product. Why would it stop you from ever upgrading to any new machine by different manufacturers in the future? That's like saying your Ford was big piece of junk, but it didn't stop you from upgrading to a Cadilac the next year, and getting a Lexus the year after. Of course it didn't. I am standing firm and refusing to buy another HTC device if things don't change. I have my eye on other devices from other makers for my next upgrade. I know what I want and will part with my money only if somebody actually delivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] david9541:
Would you really be happy?

Would you really be happy if you upgraded to better system that had no video drivers. All those systems you listed would have video drivers. I agree with Digitaltigre and also would point out if you had upgraded to a Cadillac V8 and all that it would run on is 4 cylinders would you be happy?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
http://www.htcclassaction.org/#update_20080521_1 - You know you want to read it!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
noo!! my school filter blocks the website! i have to wait till i get home!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RizwanKhan:
use this proxy to cut through the filter :)

https://www.knittingfish.com
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
lol im home now, a lot of proxy's are already blocked at school, and once you visit one it will be blocked in days, but thanks anyway!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] evilc:
Juicy!

Though I must say for all the moaning that the WWE_3.28 ROM isn't that great, not seeing the screen draw makes the whole thing feel much more "solid". Throw in the possibility of full acceleration and I am pretty optimistic.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DaVince:
Wow.. it looks like it's just a matter of time. :D

Good luck and keep it up!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] wilsonzone:
Actually I did not state I was ripped off my Commodore, it was just that the technology was not there. The analogy was a progression of technology not Retail "brand". I did extensive research on the Kaiser before buying, and there really was nothing out at the time to compare. My complaints are in line with being promised something that was not delivered, and finding they could have delivered but chose not to. Even so I can see how my analogy was kinda vague to you. I will buy again, probably not HTC but I will do my best after this instance, make sure I get what I pay for.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] blazoner:
Much has been made of HTC's abysmal lack of hardware drivers in their newer phones/PDA's. Their motivation for this is simple:

They are looking to bust out as a HUGE player in the new Android devices, and don't want to lay the foundation for MS to still be a player in that race, so they are "Dumbing down" what they have now in order to exaggerate the positives of Android over Window Mobile.

As usual, we bear the brunt of their schemes.

p.s. I'm not anti-corporation, anti-business, or anti-capitalist. But, just like you, I get frustrated by people who forget that customers are not just inconveniences, but instead are the very foundation upon which EVERY business is built. They forget this at their own peril.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greg3d:
(Sorry if this is a cross post)

I just updated my HTC TyTN II to the new ROM: RUU_Kaiser_HTC_WWE_3.28.405.0_radio_sign_25.83.40 .02_1.65.16.25_Ship.zip

Here are my VSBenchmark results:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rajmagi:
so actually MS Mobiles reports lies???