yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
hello77, you are not the first one saying this (you are the first one in this thread though) - we will put some more research into this and see if we can get it up there with the rest of the issues :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Too bad it doesn't mention the site, only XDA-Developers :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/n...n-of-the-htc-s730-gets-the-fcc-clearance.html The site is just mentioned there, but it still is something.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] GenesysLV:
The HTCClassAction.org site doesn't appear to be tracking other issues such as the Keyboard double typing or the speakerphone issue. I think these issues should be mentioned or a bug tracker be established on the class action site. It adds to the argument of a lack of "promised or expected performance" from the device.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RemE:
While the video driver issue is very important, equally important is the poor BT Headset performance compared to previous models. BT Stereo is fine, but mono BT Headset while calling is very well documented as "Tinny", "Scratchy", and lower in volume than most other phones and previous HTC models like the TyTN/8525. I use this function every day as do many others, but there is no fix to date....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
The update from the HTC e-Club doesn't help? In either case, you people who want to add extra stuff to the site, like the speaker issue, BT issue or keyboard double typing issue will have to provide more information, links, etc. Stuff that can be easily verified. You want something to happen, roll up your sleeves and help, none of us involved are your personal workhorses.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hello77:
Thanks for quick response. Hope its something you can add to the lawsuit and appreciate you taking the time to research the problem.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Morghus:
A norwegian cellphone site (one of the most reliable and popular ones) reported in a review of the HTC Touch Dual(middle of the article) that "Video som hakker" (Video that's choppy) that video gets choppy and loses sync with audio, so for now the Dual's pretty much useless as a video-player.

Additionally they complain about the camera-function spending ages adjusting to changes in contrast and lighting.

As far as I was able to gather, this was symptoms of the same problem?

Another public, and damned popular source in Norway, that's reporting ****ty video-performance.

Hope that helps.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] drutort:
so whatever happened to the updating of the HTCClassAction.org? i mean its almost 1 year since last update... nothing ? what about progress report about other devices? and or other projects in this area with drivers and acceleration?

:confused:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChumleyEX:
Dude the phone is 2 years old and they have made great advances with it. Why would they beat their heads against a wall any longer. Be happy with having a lil bit more then nothing.

Of course I'm sure they would welcome anything you have to offer if you decided to waste your own time on an outdated phone.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
Replaced but not outdated

You call an extra line of keys on the keyboard, a slightly faster version of basically the same die shrinked CPU and a slightly newer/reworked flavour of WM 6.1 ROM on the Touch Pro 2 'great advances'? Even today they still don't have full Qualcomm provided graphics accelleration drivers and, even worse, the Touch Pro 2 isn't even supported by TomTom Navigator (well at least not officially currently).

:eek: It was ahead of its time when it was released and since then there's been nothing that makes me want to part with vast sums of cash to replace it. HTC haven't learnt their lesson and mended their penny pinching ways re drivers on current phones so what's a guy to do but try and get more life out of the TyTN II with driver upgrades?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChumleyEX:
Please re read my post, because I didn't say that (insert vulgar name).. I said that the people here have made great advancements with this phone(the kaiser/tilt) DUR!!!!!

but yeah the touchpro has a bit more than what your saying, the tilt has a 400mhz cpu the tp2 has 528mhz, thats actually a pretty good step up.

tilt = 240 x 320 display

tp2 = 480 X 800 WVGA resolution

tilt = RAM:capacity: 128 MiB

ROM-capacity: 256 MiB (accessible: 145.2 MiB)

tp2= ROM: 512 MB

RAM: 288 MB

please learn to read. That is all.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
Actually you didn't qualify the 'great advances with it' statement until now - hence why I stepped in. If the point you were trying to make was during the nearly two year period since the phone was released, people in the community (incl here at xda-dev) have come up with lots of contributions to improve the device then I agree although none match what an on the ball manufacturer could have and should have provided in the first place in terms of full 'release level' (non-beta) 2D and 3D driver support from Qualcomm.

The Touch Pro 2 uses that 32% CPU speed increase to power a screen that has not just 32% more pixels but 500% more (going by your figures) and you can't tell me that doesn't indicate there's masses of untapped graphics acceleration power that HTC should have made available in the Kaiser to begin with. Talk about marketing strategy which leaves the options open for future perfomance gains or functionality enhancements in successors...

Which is 500% of the Kaisers total pixel count - all powered by a 32% more powerful CPU (with, lets not forget only 11% more battery capacity)..... and it can be seen that the level of driver support can actually play a huge effect. Personally, I'm quite happy with the level of detail on my 240 x 320 res screen. Once upon a time many were happy using 14" monitors which only had VGA Resolutions twice that number each way (640 x 480). My first monitor was a glorious SVGA model with 800 x 600 resolution all in a 15" screen. Other than improved web browsing through better compatibility with sites, I don't see a need for anything more that QVGA on such a small screen, certainly video clarity at that resolution and screen size is fine. That doesn't mean it cant be improved with higher resolutions but I don't think that should be high up the priority list and other factors such as visibility in bright sunshine, power conservation and touch screen sensitivity should come first.

Which would be all well and good if that directly produced a proportional increase in everyday speed (eg for video playback) but (just as with desktop PCs) we know that additional RAM only comes into the picture if you're running more apps at a given time and the system was already getting stretched with the original amount of memory. Personally, I've yet to get anywhere near using all the RAM on my Kaiser so other than the additional space for internal storage of programs, this would be of little benifit to me.

please learn to write unambiguously and then it will be interpreted correctly :p :eek:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChumleyEX:
In my original post did I mention anything at all about the touchpro2 and was a reply to someone asking about the homegrown projects such as video drivers.

I may need to write better but I think you need to read better.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dancj:
There was nothing ambiguous in ChumlyEX's posts.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] thekillingroad:
So, if I buy a Kasier today -and I'm planning to get one tonight or tomorrow- will be using at least nearly full potential of its sources?

Since -as far as I understand- HTC does not provide drivers for touch pro or touch pro 2, they won't give me "that much" for the huge price difference. (tp2 costs twice as a kaiser for me) and there is no need to buy a tp2 for me now.

only the hsdpa-hsupa differs, not a big issue right now though.

Not a king pda user. Any simple answers on what htcclassaction's latest "beta" drivers do? just Direct3D abilities (for navigating I guess?)

thanks
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
No you won't, not by a long shot. That's my point - official Qualcomm drivers not being provided in the device, seriously impact its performance potential.

It's explained on the HTCClassaction website but there are now also other beta drivers here on xda-dev that work with these to give additional graphics acceleration benifits. Not sure what you mean by navigating but it shouldn't impact GPS performance (other than the need to have a WM 6.1 ROM/Radio combination installed to use them - that in itself impacts GPS significantly in my experience). Direct3D is more about games and applications that utilise 3D Acceleration. If you mean drawing menus quickly in Windows Mobile for snappy navigation around the menu options, thats more associated with 2-D Acceleration.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] thekillingroad:
Thanks Kiwi,

Well, then whats the point of buying any HTC device? None of the newer devices have Qualcomm drivers included. None of the HTC devices perform as they should be. So what is the point of buying any of them.

It's sad that I won't even reach near the potential.

What I meant by navigating was, like the comparison video of htcclassaction on Youtube, the kaiser vs magician. That was 2D I guess but there are 3D GPS applications too. I hope it can perform better on those?

Any drivers for touchscreen of crappy cam? or just for 3d?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Subversive Asset 2.0:
I am also *still* wary of purchasing any HTC WinMo device that has qualcomm stuff for a similar reason -- it doesn't seem like devices past the Kaiser have particularly improved in this matter...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
If you can live with the fact you'll be lining the pockets of a company which doesn't provide full driver support for many of its devices (even though they are readily available to them at a cost), then the point is that you'll get a device which has many features which do work properly - just not all of them. To me, having faith that a company is providing the best possible product at the time and isn't penny pinching are overruling factors. I haven't given up on getting full driver support for my TyTN II but even if it does come, it will almost certainly mean an upgrade to the OS. Unfortunately NONE of the WM 6.1 compatible radios offer anywhere near the same excellent GPS performance of the 1.27 series radios so that won't be a realistic option to me unless HTC provide an updated Radio, decent GPS performance is just to important to me.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Seriously, just get an external bluetooth GPS and get unshackled from this.

I picked up one from Qstarz (1000X), works with everything I have that supports GPS by Bluetooth, lasts maximum 42 hours on one charge (outlasting the phone by a day), picks up better than the SiRFIII in my m900 even while inside concrete buildings, saves ~50+mAh of power over Qualcomm GPSone, no longer locked to radio/Qualcomm quality, about 15 feet range from the puck to the phone device, AGPS supported (through USB download) etc ...

It's about less than 2/3 the size of a Touch Pro, so you can carry it in a pocket, belt, backpack etc, and with 15 feet of range ....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
I'd rather just limp along with TCPMP for video playback (possibly Coreplayer 2.0 when it comes along) and leave WM 6.0 on the device. What are your thoughts as to why the new WM 6.1 radios have resulted in GPS performance deterioration?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Well, the radio antenna surface area isn't big enough to begin with, and the new radios probably resolve the GPS signals differently -- including keeping power usage lower.

Two hw generations, multiple radios, and multiple registry resetting later has put me on the side of screw phone-convergence GPS, it's just too life-threatening.

If you want a device that has great TCPMP/CorePlayer performance, again get off Qualcomm and go to the Omnia and descendents. :P Samsung at least accelerates all the graphics APIs equally including raw, GDI, GAPI, Directdraw ... unlike HTC/Qualcomm. That's what my recent benchmarks between the FUZE, Acer m900, and Omnia has told me.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
Thanks for taking the time to reply NuShrike. Power consumption reduction was my hunch as well but the problem with their way of going about it is that it seems they've used the same logic as saying we want to cut the fuel consumption of a car by half so we'll put in a fuel line or valve which limits the flow to half as much - the underlying works still require a given minimum supply or it simply won't work properly. The GPS on my TyTN II with (even the latest HTC WWE) WM 6.1 ROM/Radio/SPL combination, was akin to a car spluttering up a hill because it's being starved of fuel.

I hardly ever use the GPS in a car, it's almost always walking or on public transport and I just take multiple spare batteries with me to last the day.

Part of my TCPMP requirements for the device are for it to be 'self supporting' as far as angling/tilting the screen when watching video and so far the only WM devices I've come across that do that are Qualcomm based :( I've worked as a computer tech and I've never come across a company so tight with it's drivers as Qualcomm. Most hardware manufacturers are keen for you to have the latest driver and firmware upgrades for free so you can have the latest and presumably most reliable/fastest experience but this is definitely not my experience with the TyTN II. It's put me off buying another Qualcomm based device though, that's for sure.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] invasion13:
Hi,

that the reason why my next device wont be neither an HTC or qualcomm based device, i am waiting for the next 1ghz cpu windows phone without any link to qualcomm:

Any suggestion ?

Thanks
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ajclai08:
HTC + Nvidia Tegra should be out around the same time(or shortly after) snapdragon. It's not clocked at 1 ghz and is base off older ARM11 core, but it also has 7 other cores on board that do specific tasks..especially media capabilities and better power savings. Supports 12 MP camera, Open gl 2.0, duel displays, high native resolutions, HD video playback, HD encoders on board ect, it also will support android and windows..just like qualcomm, cheaper as well.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] invasion13:
Hi,

it seems promising,

it'll keep an eye on that.

many thanks for the infos

regards
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Dukenukemx:
It's to HTC's best interest to get working 3D drivers for phones with a qualcomm chipset. In fact, they should be fixing everything, including such things as GPS.

I hate the iPhone for some of the things they've done, but it did a lot of things right. It literately exploded onto the Smart Phone market, and it has scared the crap out of Windows Mobile and Symbian based phone companies.

John Carmack, the creator of game engines for such games as Quake 1,2,3 and Doom series, has praised the iPhone. Software development is extremely good on the iPhone, while Windows Mobile has majority of it's applications written in 2002/2003. Most have been abandoned, and are in need of a serious updates.

The Touch Pro 2 is HTC's flagship product, which also uses a qualcomm chipset. The Kaiser maybe an outdated product, in terms of phone generation, but supporting it should be in their best interests. HTC should be looking at all their phones as a platform, and not as a generation.

Support should be key into HTC's future. The Kaiser and the original iPhone came out at about the same time period, yet the iPhone keeps getting updates and upgrades through software. It's even running the iPhone OS 3.0.

I love xda-developers for all the available cooked roms and support, but it shouldn't be needed if HTC supported their products.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChumleyEX:
What do they care, they sold a butt load of these phone and many people are lined up to by the next phone. They don't care..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Dukenukemx:
There are a few reasons to care. One is when people upgrade their phones, it probably won't be a HTC phone. The other is to gain mass appeal, like Apple did with the iPhone.

It's not like we're asking for new hardware or anything. It's just software that people want. Actually drivers, but ATI has a policy to update the drivers for their video cards every month. The least HTC could do is give us working drivers.

Maybe if they released the source code for the drivers, that way the community can do their work.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Already asked the head of the ATI Linux open-source driver if they can twiddle their device department to release the source also. The response was wait until the department settled ownership.

Few weeks later, the device department was sold to Qualcomm. So that's dead and sunk option now since Qualcomm was the whole reason this problem existed.

So you could protest in the only possible, non-noticeable, way which is to spread the word and stop buying HTC/Qualcomm. We can see that people still continue to jump onto the TP2 and so like SUVs and abused wives, people have short memory and the cycle continues.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Dukenukemx:
What about the drivers for the Android OS? OpenGL is working for the Android OS on the Kaiser. No source code for that?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mjordan79:
Any chance to have the website updated with some new info for the HTC Touch HD2 "Leo"?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mjordan79:
Right. But do you know what the real problem is? The real problem is all that idiots around here that see TouchFlo 2.6 and go buying new devices. How a company can have interest in "older" devices when people buy newer ones without using a single neuron.... Have you seen the new HTC HD2? People just see TouchFlo and keeps buying. "HD2 is great", they say. "HD2 is fast" they say. "HD2 is going to rock" they say.

Someone should teach them a device is something more complex than a UI and needs a more deeper development than two GUI effects in the home screen. We're in 2010 and HTC is still releasing devices that can't run basic OpenGL ES 2.0 programs. And people buy them ... That's the problem... Earth is full of simple human beings... Making business with such simple creatures is not that hard. Just put 2 fancy effects and you're done.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dumraden:
@Mjordan

You really cant call someone "simple" just because he buys something that suits his needs....

Who gives a $h!7 if its running OpenGL, all i want is my apps to run smoothly, and i cant care less if its using D3D, OpenGL or w/e.

I just want a fancy UI that has all the stuff i need at the swipe of a finger or at the touch of a button, and i want it not to start choking every once in a while.

So if you think you are superior to me, since i am a simple human being that wants his phone to work correctly, go ahead and develop the damn Driver and makes us all happy. If you cant do that i see no reason to bash "simple humans" just to get your e-go a boost...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] TheArcherPilot:
Comon guys settle down we are all here for the same reason to develop our phones. everyone has different tastes so there is no need to argue. ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bliblablub:
want the same but for kaiser :(

Any progress??

(yes, I tried the d3d drivers, but then some programs don't start or crash)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] drutort:
so its now 2010 heh, and there hasnt been a post here :P just wondering what is up?

honestly I wont be looking at HTC until I get my hands to demo the phone that I buy, i wont be making the same mistake!

i was with my bro and his iphone in tmobile and other places and even the latest android and all other phones cant compare to the speed and smoothness, i hate to admit it but if anything i would get an iphone and jall break it for tmobile cause no other phone right now on the market and for the price that i would spend is even close to what they have... its the only apple product i would ever recommend or speak of to anyone just FYI

now i wish Cowon would get into the phone business! haha they could prob make a nice phone cause im enjoying there S9 pmp !
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dany547:
this driver is working for WM 6.5?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Airfaire:
it's been almost 3 years now and i was really anticipating that anyone will come out with a video driver fix. The only thing that comes to mind when reminded of this past issue is "htc has dropped the ball".......
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RemE:
Sorry Chainfire, no, the "hotfix" from HTC was for sporatic BT disconnects, but the poor audio quality was documented almost from day one. There have been all kinds of reg tweaks reccommended along the way but none really seem to fix it. Many BT earpieces that used to work fine with other phones are now giving a lower audio output with Kaiser so that when travelling and talking, it's quite difficult to hear the other party. Here's the thread;

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=329270
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Raven6020:
http://www.pocket.at/news/

First Austrian news.

Regards,

Matthias
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
I'll have a look-see.

@all

My apologies in being a bit harsh a few posts above. Seems it came across a bit more powerful than it was meant. I understand these issue are also bothering you, but you must also understand that all this is not a small undertaking. Gathering all the information, building the website, communication with the other people involved in this, answering about 100 short e-mails daily since the site launched, complete e-mail conversations with some of the sites that are making mention of all this as well as some who are considering doing so. It's a lot of work, so if you want to make additions or modifications, you may understand that I prefer them in 'ready to chew' format, instead of just "can you add/investigate problem X?" :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Kalwren:
Chainfire,

I appreciate the work and effort you're putting in to this. I'm new to the whole pocket PC thing and not sure where I can really help. Feel free to make a suggestion.

I was very excited about getting my device and have been unpleasantly suprised at how poor it plays video. I love everything else about it though.

So with that, I appreciate what you're putting in to this to try and get us all a better mobile experience. I certainly hope it pays off well for everyone in the end. Including HTC.

Thank you Chainfire! :)