yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] addictivepixels:
Idea...

Why not move the reward for proper drivers into a fund for paying for lawyer to take on the case; or perhaps starting an extra fund for it. I would suggest a donation paypal account or something similar controlled by an admin.

Note: I've also posted this in the driver thread.

What do you guys think?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Personally I think it is a good idea, and it has been said before. However, this is a decision everyone who pledged to the driver fund must make for themselves.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] luthor_70:
To ChainFire :

I always sent a mail about that, Please put the Athena's and clones in the Affected devices and just in this poor update paragraph it is unsure if those devices are affeted or not. THEY ARE AFFECTED !

They are affected in exactly the same way the othe ones are and I would love to mention that it is a double shame because they are the most expansive devices of the line.

If a fix would be released I hope I can have my money's worth.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
I spent hours and hours researching various phones before deciding to buy my Sprint Mogul. The primary reason I bought it over my second choice (a non-HTC phone) was because of the dedicated ATI graphics processor that I'd read about on numerous spec sheets and review sites. Several days after my 30-day grace period ended, I discovered the HTCClassAction.org website. I would not have bought this phone if I'd known about this problem. In my case, HTC CERTAINLY benefitted by stating hardware specs that were wrong and/or misleading.

So, is it possible that the early reviewers were running pre-release phones with included drivers? What normally happens to such devices after the reviews? Must the reviewer send it back to the manufacturer, or are they free to keep it, sell it on eBay, etc? Is it possible that a handful of phones out there DO contain video hardware drivers? If so, how would someone determine that? What might the driver be named? Or what key in the registry would point to it?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] wizzzard:
You would have to ask the the people who did the early reviews. There were Kaisers at silly prices offered on Ebay prior to the official launch.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Wow! Why does DailyTech also get first dibs on unofficial official non-PRs?

Anyways, first HTC makes a statement that implies the hardware doesn't exist, then followup that they won't support something they've already supported before in previous products, but refuse to now. They keep giving us so much material to use against them.

So, sounds like Qualcomm is again to blame, and if HTC was an honorable company, the CEO should've resigned by now. Instead, we see that HTC is a greedy, arrogant, dishonorable, no face (for asians) ODM blindly driving into their own iceberg.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ?Glitch:
Probably someone at DailyTech with an inside connection, politics, or they chose an outlet with less traffic in hopes that when their posture on this was out in the open, the sh!t wouldn't hit the fan for a while...

No matter who is to blame, the consumer is the one injured in this, and they willfully and knowingly defrauded the consumer by marketing this device boasting of the MSM7X000 chipset most likely in full knowledge of the Qualcomm/Broadcom 'imaginary property' problems, it should not be the burden of the consumer to pick up the cost of corporate greed quibling over what circuit is hot in a chipset, they advertised the entire thing. It would have to be a very well paid off and crooked judge to let this one go, then again, any one of Bush's appointees might suffice...

It is official, honor in Taiwan is no more...

<edit>Here's a thought, everyone email Bush with an insider tip, "there's oil in Taiwan...."</edit>

?Glitch
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
LMAO yeah that or someone quickly send Mr. Bush the gift that keeps on crapping, a lousy MSM7x00 equipped HTC device. The fact they are still introducing new models (Polaris) under this configuration is pushing arrogance and utter contempt for consumers to limits I have never seen.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
Here's what that call would sound like
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] crushbup:
HTC's recent announcement that they are in fact not releasing drivers is the final straw for me. However, before we go into any lawsuit, we should follow Consumerist.com's advice:

"1. Exhaust normal channels

Have you called customer service? Asked for a supervisor? Hung up and tried again? Give regular customer service a chance to fix the problem before you go nuclear.

2. Write a really good complaint letter.

Be clear and concise. State exactly what you want. See this post for complaint letter writing tips. Pitch your issue in a way that affects their bottom line. Spellcheck and include contact information.

3. Determine the corporate email address format.

Look through their website or Google for press releases. Examine the PR flack's email address. What's the format? Is it firstname.lastname@company.com? FirstletteroffirstnameLastname@companyname.com? Figure it out and write it down.

4. Compile a list of the company's top executives

This is often available on the company website, under sections like "corporate officers" or "corporate governance." You can also look the company up on Google Finance and look under management, although this list tends to only be partial.

5. Combine the names from step 4 with the format from step 3 to create an email list

6. Send your complaint to the list from step 5.

7. Sit back and wait."

It is definitely time for an Executive Email Carpet Bomb, and the more people that participate, the better.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
This may just be more fodder, but msmobiles secured an interview with the imate CEO, Jim Morrison at World Mobile Congress. During the interview he says the 9502 will be delayed coming to the US for the Qualcomm patent issues, but indicated the features at issue were about power management, not graphics.

http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7102.html

As such, the US will not get the phone until May, and it will be on the MSM7201 chip, which does not include the infriging technology.

Personally, I hope this phone rocks and sells like hotcakes. :)

Also debunked is the rumor that HTC makes the phone.

So the SE may still look a bit slicker, but I would be very happy if the 9502 actually lives up to expectations so I have a choice to buy a competitive non-HTC Winmo product.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Alemaker:
Aren't the latest responses from HTC just a regurgitation of an earlier statement from them?

Chainfire,

After reading the latest updates and responses, it is crystal clear that nothing less than a lawsuit will make HTC take action, if at all.

Any progress on finding a lawyer?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jweather:
If HTC can patch the phone were video and camera functions work flawless, I would be happy
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ?Glitch:
"Bodyguard: Mr. President, the intructions on your coloring book says to stay within the lines."

OMG, ROFLMAO!!!, what a F'n RIOT, always good to see someone hit the nail on the head....

?Glitch
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] music:
i don't think htc will update the driver - if they do people will keep the tytn 2 and not buy the tytn 3! it's all marketing/sales... what htc will do is make a few crappy tweaks and say like it or lump it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] notten:
I, along with enough others, will skip the Tytn 3 and go for the Toshiba/Eten/Samsung/Motorola Whatever. The only reason I bought an HTC phone was because of the poor video performance I heard about the Eten Glofiish. If I knew that I was going to get the same crap performance at half the display resolution I would've spent my money elsewhere. There's no point in upgrading now, but I will certainly omit HTC devices from consideration in my next purchase.

Additionally, I am ashamed of recommending this phone to three of my friends and I'm hoping for a driver upgrade/hack to save some face. They all bought one and now four of us have to deal with sub par performance from the leading Windows Mobile phone manfuacturer. Additionally, I have a buddy who has the Titan which suffers from the same problems.

HTC could throw 3 devs on this and have the driver pumped out and QA'ed in less than a month, but that's extremely unlikely to happen. With these devices being the forefront of cellular communications technology, and HTC being the lead manufacturers of these devices, I made the wrong assumption that I can buy something and expect it to work as advertised. Next time I'll forgo being on the cutting edge, and buy a manufacturer who releases products as advertised.

Nothing short of a DDI replacement which takes advantage of the Imageon hardware will fix the issues which make GDI rendering so unbearably slow. There is no reason to believe that any tweaks that HTC will release can magically cure these issues. Here's to hoping cmonex and Chainfire can find drivers similar enough with which to work. It seems the way this will end is with a tighter community of users, and a general distrust in HTC. I'm starting to think those three letters stand for "Hurt The Customer."
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
I know you have trouble reading any of the threads, but been there already done that by some large percentage of the 10K+ signaturees on the petition.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] macsbac:
HTC never again, I from now on refuse to purchase any HTC or HTC built device in the future. They clearly do not care about their consumers and I simply no longer trust them, their excuses are very weak at best. As for windows mobile websites they failed the windows mobile user, I never read one review which highlighted the performance issues. In this regard I think the whole WM community has been let down and not only by HTC but many of the main WM community web sites. Is it any wonder they are now being outsold by the apple iphone a device with much less features. No driver is coming from HTC or other sources, certainly in the timeframe of a contract renewal.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sroussey:
Well, with all the HTC performance problems, we certainly know why they don't do 640x480 or 800x480 and instead stick with the old old old 320x240. Imagine how slow it would be at one of those resolutions!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] notten:
4 to 5 times slower. That means I could eat breakfast by the time my phone has switched to landscape mode. Scrolling would be unbearable. Well, such is life. Lets hope eTen releases something with 128 megs of ram.. I'm buying that next.

-Anthony
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
I, for one (who has been branded a HTC 'Fanboy' many times!) have been holding out hoping that they will make good on this.

I have always said that my device performs 'OK' but with that in respect, the 'OK' meant that it had gotten around some of the problems of the TyTyn (Hermes) ie. Go into sleep and lose music, Bluetooth even worse than this one, but with GPS and better camera (on mine anyway?).

BUT, overall video performance worse than a previous device ON ANYONES to the Hermes, and if updates are not forthcoming before a new device issue, then I will be looking closely at the proposed update to the Nokia E90 as my next unit.

I was always a symbian person many years ago (with Communicators) and moved to WM with the Unversal but as said before, HTC have dropped the ball here and need a VERY good play to pull it back!

Word of mouth is OLD HAT! Global web reviews kill sales in the blink of an eye and they better keep that in mind. ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] atsitalian:
Sony Ericsson - XPERIA™ X1

I have also been an HTC user for my last several devices Sprint 6600, 6700 , 6800 (Mogul), and now AT&T Tilt... Next device Sony Ericsson - XPERIA™ X1 when it comes out.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
If you want to hurt HTC don't buy the Ericsson - it's an HTC too.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] lOOkup:
T-Mobile reply

Hi folks,

I sent a very long email to the german T-Mobile business customer support center. Before I got my Kaiser I used a Magician device for 2 years. All the performance issues resulted from the comparison of this to devices I wrote to the T-Mobile support.

Here is the reply:

English:

German:

What do you think?

I'm really disappointed about this reply. They stated, that the MDA Vario II device has more graphic performance as the new successor MDA Vario III. They know it - it it looks to be OK for the T-Mobile guys. Why?

This reply gives me not the feeling, to get any support from T-Mobile (driver, patch or anything else) within the next upcoming weeks.

Greetings,

Martin
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
Why don't people understand. . . HTC, makes many phone for other companies, they just do exactly as the client tells them too. They are a phone manufacture(make the phones by other peoples specifications) and a phone producer(make their own phones). SE is gonna crontrol the software that goes info it the hardware drivers and support on the device. If HTC developed and is gonna release it them selves I wouldn't get it but since its just them building it and not have anything to do with the design and software then I am fine.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jasperrr:
I think that you should completely ignore that email. Obviously it's just some service-employee with limited- to no knowledge about mobile phones.

It is caused by the basic features of the new WM6 OS? That's bull****, why would microsoft make WM6 worser than WM5?

And no GPU? The CPU has an integrated Imageon hardware 2D/3D graphics accelerator.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
That made me think... why haven't we talked to Microsoft yet? They are actually not that evil as some corporations like HTC.. since these devices are running on WM6 and are competitors of, say, Nokia's PDAs they should be concerned about losing market because of drivers. Perhaps they have a way to influence HTC.. maybe something can be done through WM6, an SDK for that.. or some kind of compatibility option to use the hardware.

I mean we can argue and guess for next 2 years, we need to write a big letter to Microsoft saying that we're all ready to sell Kaisers and use Nokias from now on, hehe.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jdigitL:
has anyone contacted the better business bureau yet?

normally this is a good way to make companies get their act together when the strongarm of the bbb gets on their case...

its easy to file a complaint... just head over to their website bbb.org

digitL
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
last several times I've used BBB it was so useless, it made me almost cry. BBB is crap.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] harry_x:
Microsoft woudn't care.. At fact, they can't care. They're in same position as we are - they have no knowledge of ATI Imageon hardware. And remember Microsoft is just creator of platform, they don't care at all what vendors do with it - and providing drivers for theirs hardware is definitively vendors responsibility.

Still it's quite sad that HTC is not going to fix it... I doubt I will buy any new HTC devices anymore... Just put my fingers on my old hp rx3715 wm2003 based PDA. Kaiser feels to it like very bad lowend PDA when it comes to speed and GUI respondency...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 4Site:
And ^^^ that ^^^ ladies and gentlemen is our case done and dusted.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tyeo098:
Ditto .
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
How does this work when HTC doesn't sell any products in the CA, while at&t is only a reseller? at&t sure doesn't make any of the above claims about the hardware's powers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jasperrr:
http://www.computerlemonlaw.com/contact.html

Also even if they would try to defend theirselves by saying that a mobile phone is not exactly the same as a computer;
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nick Collision:
I didn't buy my Kaiser from ATT. HTC devices are sold to customers in every State in the US.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
Exactly. Doesn't matter if it is an online purchase or a store purchase. You but it in California, that law applies to it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
I still see tons of talk but no action.

Anyone have a clue what is happening?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nick Collision:
I myself am doing two three things.

1)Waiting to see what the HTC "fixes" are next month.

2)Waiting to hear if the "Blacklisted Device" finally shows itself.

and

3)Shopping for a Kaiser for cmonex and Olipro.

Unfortunately two of those three things include waiting.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
I'd love to take action, but I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a guy getting his master's in software engineering.

I do think that this is an important issue. With the growing complexity of mobile devices, I don't think this is the last time some company will pull something like this unless some kind of legal precedent is made.

Any smartphone device for sale today fits even the most specific definition of a computer... smartphones are just very small 32-bit computers.

I'm surprised that no one knew about computer lemon laws, though.

I do feel kinda bad because the call I made to HTC for info about all of this was the best tech support experience I've ever had, the lady was very informative and sooooo nice (sexy voice too!).

Eh well, HTC and Qualcomm either need to release a driver or give us all cheap/free trade-in upgrades to the next-gen HTC windows mobile phones that do enable hardware acceleration.

HTC, just license the damned driver... BUT DON'T FIRE THAT SEXY-VOICED TECH!! I want her to whisper sweet phone specifications in my ear... *nerdgasm*

Update: Something tells me that seeing the MSM7500 sales pitch by Qualcomm's Prez of CDMA tech on Qualcomm's very own website would be just enough to make HTC and Qualcomm wince a little. :) It hurts a little more when it has that official Qualcomm logo in the upper left, doesn't it guys?

I need to edit my original post... apparently the Prez said this on July 13th, 2005.. not Spet 1st, 2005
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tsadek:
Surprised no-one has mentioned this new statement unless I'm missing a trick??

Some of it is obviously a re-hash of what has been said before but its the first paragraph that interests me.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,58508
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 4Site:
Posted it this morning mate, oli should get it tomorrow. So 1 less thing to wait about.

Thanks
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jasperrr:
Blablabla

The only good thing is that they claim that the software fix will dramatically increase common on-screen tasks like scrolling.

On the other side, they're once again claiming that there will be no drivers and "that we should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become."
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tsadek:
What's the betting this is a "fix" that has already been cooked into a thousand ROMs?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
Nope. They claim that it will have better scrolling and menu viewing speeds. . . . Still why pussyfoot around when you could just make the whole thing faster by enabeling the hardware putting less strain on the CPU and then it will be faster in everything, plus imagine re-draw at 0.025 sec(If and when they finnaly enable the drivers . . .)!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
I remember reading some post earlier in this thread about Qualcomm shoving ATi aside because they wanted to write the drivers themselves... now Qualcomm is back at ATi begging them to write the drivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
Great post, Draiko. I wasn't aware of Computer Lemon Laws. Apparently my state has such a law, and I'm contemplating contacting a local attorney regarding this matter.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
Thanks! I think many of us will be doing the same if HTC doesn't do something amazing within the next 30 days
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] belon_cfy:
Increase scrolling and viewing speed ? does it mean increase the 2D rendering speed for gaming ?

Have anyone tried "ARGENTUM: This is war", "AOE gold edition", SkyForce, Neogeo , CPS2,SNES emulator performance? what is the frame rate per sec ?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jasperrr:
What a bull****, there are a lot of videos that prove that the Kaiser is worser than most other smartphones (Isn't it a PPC :confused:)

[/QUOTE]
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jyan_osu:
Android with same chip showing 3D

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/28/android-gets-handled-now-with-street-view/

About halfway through the video the person shows a demo of Quake.. listen to the chipset he mentions the phone has.. Than shake your fist at whoever won't let us have the driver...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Zoolooc:
Well, that guy does not differentiate between msm7200A for which the android kernel is developed, and msm7200 which is actually a little bit different. I just hope it's not so much different and the android kernel can truly be adapted to msm7200, too, then I'll just flush WM down the toilet and use whatever Linux phone distro or even Android on top of it on my Kaiser, screw the WM drivers...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jasperrr:
Wah 30 FPs with 300MHz, I really want the Kaiser Drivers :/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
Yep... I was just about to post that vid. MSM7200 playing quake using google android is a definite plus for the case as well... the chipset has now been publicly tested.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Seems 7200a is the low-power 65nm version of our 90nm chip. XDA thread about it: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=364940
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Allude2Prelude97@gmail.co:
Why would they use the faster MSM7200A, but then only run it at 300MHz?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
better battery life?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Man, are they too pulling an "HTC trick" on consumers? Harr...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tfdeere:
So I heard back from HTC today:

Thank you for your further inquiries.

In reference to the official statement made, HTC does not offer exclusive multimedia devices. To address your question, HTC never intended to use ATI's Imageon video acceleration hardware on any of our Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices. HTC cannot release video drivers if none were intended for use with the AT&T Tilt.

Please refrain from using derogatory statements in reference to HTC devices. In regards to the comments in your question we would like to emphasize that " HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or

Apparently calling the Tilt a dud of a phone is upsetting to them. I don't think I'll be loosing any sleep over that. His reply makes it sound like no drivers will be released. I don't know whether to belive that or not though. One question I have for everyone though....did HTC advertise the Kaiser as having the ATI video accelerator? I've see yes and no answers to this question asked by others before.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
Its a book read statement, its all heard before.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
:eek::confused::mad:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
Aww, I think you hurt his feelings, you cruel cruel person ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tfdeere:
Belive me, after reading that I really wanted to show him what a derogatory statement really is. But I decided to cool my jets and remain professional....