yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] the_ape:
Chainfire, still waiting for a response from Qualcomm, perhaps gone home for the day as they are European based I think (just judging by names).

As soon as I have a yay or nay from them I will forward the mail on, I just didn't want you to think I had forgotten or whatnot.

Just I need permission from the 3rd party, else if it's reported my Editor will have a field day on me, and I have gone to their press department under the pretense of press, so have to obied by the rules.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
Maneissys stated somewhere that

no

Texas Instruments CPU-based devices suffer from this issue. So it might be hardware-related. How could it relate to CPU however I have no idea. Perhaps TI can handle interrupts caused by touchscreen in some better way?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
Understand that this is an area I have very little experience in. The TyTN2 is the first PDA I have ever ventured into registry editing with, and I am still not 100% on ROM flashing yet. I was thinking things through so bear with me if I got things wrong :)

I read that section before reading the Eten forum. Your explanation makes it perfectly clear that it is an issue with the touchscreen, most likely with the driver. I understand what you mean when you say that the problem is not replicated when using a virtual mouse. I just wondered what the relevance there was (if any) to the fact that different manufacturers seem to have the same problem. Is it just co-incidence that both HTC and Eten (and the manufacturers of the WM5 devices) have badly implemented touchscreen drivers? Could be to do with the particular screens they are using. I guess these are questions that HTC could (should) be answering. As I said, just trying to get it straight in my head.

How did that touchscreen driver-less ROM turn out? Must be painful having to keep reflashing - how are managing to get any work done?!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
Hard to tell. My rather optimistic estimate would be two weeks.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
Two weeks? Is there some secret info you've got hold of, or just being super hopeful? :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
Just being super hopeful. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chanur_000:
HTC europe reply

After 2 weeks here is their reply:

"Dear Sir,

In reference to your recent query regarding the TyTN II, and the devices performance in video playback, we can confirm that the HTC Research and Development team in Taiwan are currently investigating.

We have not been given any time frame regarding this but updates will appear on eclub in due course.

"

No comments about the GDI,... problems.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
What I call a virtual mouse here is just any mouse simulation that does not involve you manually pressing the screen with stylus or something like that. My Mobiler (a tool that puts your device's screen on your computer screen) does this.

No worries, I understand :) Even if they say no, maybe you could just tell us where you sent your inquiry to and we can send one ourselves.

I said it wasn't likely, I didn't say it was impossible. It could well be the touchscreen hardware that hammers the CPU with something like interrupts, or the two not being really 100% compatible, or some other kind of bad hardware design (maybe the connections are less than ideal, etc). However, since it is seen over such a wide range of devices, my personal gut feeling is software, as this is stuff they probably just recompile for every platform and say "it works", while hardware itself is usually much more rigurously tested.

All these possibilities you give here are valid. There's simply not enough information right now to be sure which one it is.

I'm not managing to get any work done ;) As for the touchscreen driver-less ROM, I haven't been able to get it to run the benchmark yet, I'm having trouble getting past the initial hard-reset touch screen calibration screen. Taking out pieces here and there to skip it, but then the rest of WM doesn't boot. So still no-go. Working on it though.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] invasion13:
hi,

Info relayed in France today

http://www.mobifrance.com/articles/newsitem.php?id=10847

best regards
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Zman28SS:
The petition just hit 6000 signatures! Awesome job people, keep spreading the word! :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] internetadam4657:
yea everybody keep up the good work getting the word around about the petition so that HTC can see that we really mean business. i'm sure they see already how serious we are but when they see that 6000+ users are behind this, they will see some pressure.

hopefully we can get some more official words soon from either qualcomm or htc.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] intothevoid:
6000+ signatures is great response and hopefully it continues to grow. HTC better post an official response about this soon.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
*bump to the top*
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
HTC Touch sales are half that of Apple's iPhone

That is officially 2 million people in the same boat we are. You think mainstream media will finally pick up the story? Will HTC fix the problem for all affected devices?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
HTC Touch DOES NOT use Qualcomm MSM7200 chipset.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
It uses Qualcomm MSM7500 same as Titan/Mogul which are also affected.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
The original Touch is not affected, however they are referring in this article to the new Touch (HTC Vogue), Touch Dual and Touch Cruise family, which is affected.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nick Collision:
This was in my Google alerts box this morning... http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/01/21/crunchlaw-htc-taken-to-task-over-disabled-hardware/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bztips:
no fix coming...

Don't know if this has already been posted, but it looks like HTC has officially stated that there's not going to be any fix....

http://www.dailytech.com/HTC+Users+...+Over+Lack+of+Driver+Support/article10393.htm
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kendaluk:
I take it that's the end of that then :(

we have all been screwed over big time
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
I'm speechless.

Did HTC really just give us the finger?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ssarl:
I never gonna buy again an HTC device if this is true...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
Okay. That's it. I'll be selling my TyTN II if the fix doesn't come within next two weeks and buy some new device.

I will not do the mistake of buying any HTC device again.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
I still wouldn't lose all hope. If there is indeed no hardware then why would there be traces of ATi stuff all over the place?

Just do a search for ATI in the registry of a phone based on these chipsets and there will be ATi references here and there.

Personally I hope this was just a way of telling us to **** off and stop asking for it. (Since we can't very well ask for something thats not there te begein with.)

Also by default the Kaiser has registry settings enabled that refer to a "GPU".

And not to mention that CorePlayer claims to have enabled hardware acceleration in their application!!!

Not trying to give anyone any false hopes but I do think this needs more investigation before we give up.

Is there some sort of hardware enumerator for Pocket PC (or something like the device manager for windows)?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jym04:
If what's written in there is true, then when might have a good lawsuit. We bought devices shipped with MSM7200 and only received devices with, let's say, MSM7200V- (minus video). It's like buying a LCD 21'' monitor only to find out it's monochromatic.

Still I think this is not their final statement. And what HTC USA stated there was misunderstood. All the time they've been like "ooo we don't know about this, HTC Taiwan made it, ask them", and now they have the word?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
I'm hoping I'm not misunderstanding what I just read. But I think HTC said their devices are performing just as they should, and are still "good" compared to other similar devices.

Shouldn't HTC want them to be THE BEST or AMAZING compared to similiar devices? I'm really angry right now. I emailed HTC. Hopefully they'll get back to me and tell me I misunderstood and a ROM update is going to be available in an hour.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
It certainly sounds like HTC is not going to take any action for existing dveices but they will be happy to sell you a new one...

From the article above. http://www.dailytech.com/HTC+Users+...+Over+Lack+of+Driver+Support/article10393.htm

"HTC values its customers and the overall online community of mobile device enthusiasts and fans. HTC plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support. "
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cuboosh:
unreal.. :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] GenesysLV:
We'll see if this really happens.

My Response from HTC:

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the camera and video issue with the HTC TyTN II device.

Eric, we regret to see that you are considering an alternate manufacturer for your mobile communication needs, due to the issues with the HTC TyTN II. We are working on a resolution for this problem. Please check our website (america.htc.com) in the near future for updates regarding the status of this issue. We thank you for considering HTC as the manufacturer of choice for your applications.

Please feel free to contact us again if you have any further questions.

HTC Technical Support

http://www.america.htc.com

http://www.htcwiki.com

http://www.cingular.com/support/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
I just called HTC America and of course they knew nothing about any video issues with our device, or anything about a press release.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jym04:
Yeah, kinda. But I really hope they were not lying.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mindbeat:
Got the biggest techsite in sweden to publish about the issue.

http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.141465
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rjlynn:
Language is funny, here's a quote from the HTC statement:

Now, my car has cup holders. Most people use them, I do not. That is, the cup holders are present in the car, i just do not

use

them.

Don't give up hope and quit poking HTC because of this statement. It was probably written with that wordage to A. discourage people from asking about a driver, because the statement could be taken to mean that the Imageon video hardware is not present, even if that is not the case, and B. to be able to say (if we find out later that the hardware is physically present)

"Well, we never said it wasn't in there!"
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] redsrule2500:
That better not be a real press release. A fix needs to be found...unbelievable.

Some body post this lawsuit and stuff over at Howard Forums yet? Nobody there talks about it....get some more peole calling can't hurt!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cuboosh:
a lawsuit isnt possible.. ive contacted a well known attorney in my area and given him the facts.. because htc doesnt claim to use the ATi accerlation there is nothing we can do.. they simply say its there not that they actually use it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jym04:
But if what that site said is true, then they didn't include the ATI part, which is claimed to be inside the Qualcomm chips.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cuboosh:
i dunno.. the lawyer is david betress a very well known guy in youngstown ohio.. hes a crook so he goes after money when money is to be gone after and he says it wouldnt be a strong case.. i emailed him info over and he returned my call on the issue (ive used him and my family has b4 for other matters) maybe he didnt wanna mess with it but he said it wouldnt be a strong case
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Something like that has always been considered a possibility, jakeypoo. Maybe the case isn't very strong, that will show eventually if/when a lawsuit happens. Furthermore, there are more countries in the world where HTC can be sued aside from the USA, and some people are indeed looking at doing it in other countries.

Response to this HTC statement will be up soon.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
There's not such thing as "weak case", there's only "lawyer not being good enough". Hehe. With a good lawyer you can make judge believe that he's actually a pink talking elephant.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
If this is true, and this is the official statement from HTC, I think we should start another campaign:

http://www.boycottHTC.com/

Create banner and such, spam all over the world about it.

Really, I am pissed now :( I should off from the computer and watch tv ... Grrrrrrrr!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mihyes:
I doubt that hardware is not present - IOW hardware is most probably present. It just doesn't make sense to build two versions of the same chip from the manufacturing point of view. I was wondering about the success of iPhone before, but now it is clear to me - they have common sense, others (such as HTC) don't have a clue.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
So, HTC is taking the **** YOU SUCKERS route? I don't know about lawyers and drivers, but a device named TYTN that scrolls web pages and TomTom navigator smoothly and another named TYTN II that doesn't, seems like grounds for a defective product to me, no?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] briggs81:
This is what I can't get over, and really wonder what their technical, expert response to that issue would be.

I will defiantly be a bit more open to what device I buy next.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jym04:
Any chances that this part was greatly misunderstood? I mean, if you pay attention, what it really says is that HTC devices aren't using hardware video acceleration. The verb "use" would be indicating that their devices doesn't have the proper drivers (as we already know), rather than saying that their chips doesn't have the ATI's Imageon video hardware.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Exactly. I was just writing about this :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] GSLEON3:
The HTC Email HIT LIST; Let's get it together!!!

So, what do we believe? I sent an email to AT&T & HTC USA statintg my intent to return 300 Tilts & take my business to Samsung & Verizon. The respone I got was initially "We know about it, but don't know what we can do". After replying with a carpet bomb tyrade response email, a certain VP (J.B.M.) responded with a new line "we are working on a fix & believe it will be ready for release somtime before April".

But now I see a response from HTC saying, "We don't use the ATI & aren't fixing anything".

NOW HEAR THIS:

I say we need to somehow get together an HTC Email Hit List. If we can get email addresses of the Execs & make them focus their time on this problem it will SERIOUSLY impact their efficiency, use up their valuable time & truly make a difference.

The people we really need to bomb with emails are the ones who's time realy matter.

We need phone numbers (Direct) & email addresses for the people whom matter. If you can supply any of theser do so annonymously. I will be using several special databases to see if I can get any of this info as well.

LOOK OUT HTC YOUR ON THE HIT LIST (EMAIL HIT LIST)

For the USA:

Mark J. Baker, Senior Director, Enterprise Business Unit, Americas

David Kou, Director, Business Development, CDMA

Waiman Lam, Controller

Hsiao-Wen Lin, Director of Engineering

Jason B. Mackenzie, Vice President of Sales and Marketing

David Smith, Director of Marketing

Chris Stovall, Executive Director, National Accounts

Wyatt Whaley, Executive Director, National Accounts

For Europe:

Peter Chou, CEO and President HTC Corp.

Florian Seiche, Vice President HTC Europe Co. Ltd.

Kevin Chen, Executive Director HTC EMEA Channel

Philip Blair, Product Director HTC Europe Co. Ltd.

Peter Frolund, Account Director HTC Europe Co. Ltd.

Frédéric Tassy, Account Director HTC Europe Co. Ltd.

Lars Weisswange, Account Director HTC Europe Co. Ltd.

Oliver Schulte, Finance Director HTC Europe Co. Ltd.

Peter Chiang, Account Director HTC Europe Co. Ltd.

Diane Studman, Head of European Marketing HTC Europe Co. Ltd.

Daniele De Grandis, Country Manager, Italy HTC Europe Co. Ltd.

These are the people at HTC whose time matter. Their lost minutes equal lost millions for HTC. Lets see what we can find & hit these people where it hurts (In their productivity & their pocket book)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
That's the kind of American bootstrap spirit that is needed. I'm thinking of dishing out the cost of a press release dissemination announcing the class action initiative. Let's see how HTC feels about 2 million people being made aware their device under performs 2 year older models by the same manufacturer :mad:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
Chainfire might not feel right about asking straight up, but if you have not already done so there is a donate link in his signature. I can imagine how swamped he must be and although the $$ won't help the work get done any faster, it will at least compensate for his time spent.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moos:
drivers were available in the first batches of the kaisar??

Guys, As an owner of a previous HTC magician, HTC touch AND a kaisar (vario 3), I'm disappointed in this whole problem.

Before I was planning to buy the device, I started doing research, watching reviews etcetra. Where I'm getting at.. I saw a review (which played a streaming video on HSPDA) with virtually NO lag! I saw the review a few months ago.. and found it; I only paid attention to the streaming video on the HTC.. it starts around 10:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyk0TR6pUPA

Now, what immediately in my mind comes.. did the first few (beta) batches have a normal driver? One might notice that the device in the video is still a little slow in the menus, but the streaming video (in landscape!) was running pretty well. Even though I'm not an expert and I do not want to create any false hopes, it is possible that the bitrate was really low?

I hope this kinda helps.. and oh, I'm going to rip and save that video, just in case *somebody* might try to remove it from the net ;)

EDIT:

I work in a phoneshop in the Netherlands, I'll see if I can try to digg out some names.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ach2:
Maybe GSLEON3 has hit on some more of the next approach - but with a twist. Don't bother just bombarding HTC execs because they don't give a **** about me and you.

Some of you guys are definately in IT and know your own companies corporate buyers. Keep getting on to them (and also your colleagues to do the same) then get YOUR corporate buyer to hassle HIS HTC VP Salesman with the 'I'm returning 300 crap units because you have publicly stated that you won't support them' type of phone call.

Maybe if we can get some heavyweight complainers moaning to the heavyweight HTC decision makers we stand some more chance of getting them to act.

Also, Some of you tech guys must also be in a position to advise your non tech buyers - just tell them that you have to spend too much time (and therefore money) supporting the HTC devices and you must advise that your company buys Blackberry, Nokia etc in the future. Perhaps we can also get the bean counters to help by doing an analysis of purchase price + IT support cost per year and advise against using HTC as too expensive.

Obviously this approach only really works for the large companies where there are enough people with Kaisers (and similar phones) to complain to their IT guys to get noticed, but every little bit helps...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Digitaltigre:
Alternate

I'm really upset about HTCs apparent stand on this issue. I feel cheated and I really hate that feeling. I want to smash my TyTN II into little bits and send it back to them in the mail. But enough about that, please answer me this:

What alternate device is there on the market for us?

I love this phone - the form factor, the GPS. I had an 8125 and was really into it. I upgraded to the 8525 for the double the processor speed. All the while I wanted GPS integrated. When the TyTN II was announced I knew I was going to upgrade again. Is there a device with a sliding keyboard and integrated GPS that is on the forfront of the WM evolution (WM6 to WM6.1) that is a worthy replacement? I guess I can live without the hardware keyboard, but I finally got GPS and I don't want to step backwards.

PS - IF they are not willing to correct this issue then I hope they crash and burn. I want them to lose their choke hold of the market share, and go out of business completely - all because of some stupid ass drivers.:mad:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cuboosh:
e-ten device.. i cant think of any others
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
Whoa, hold up a minute. I know we each have our own threshold for frustration, but consider this. I would caution people not to jump to conclusions. AFAIK, HTC has NOT issue a press relase on this. I would expect to see it here...

http://www.htc.com/press_room/03-press-2008.htm

Although it is frustrating that we have not gotten an official response, I don't think we can say for sure what HTC is doing about it. We also have some info that they will be working on a fix. If we are going to be contacting their execs, we should be asking them professionally about why they have not yet officially responded. If we put words in their mouth and the source of the tip turns out to be wrong, it will hurt a lot more then help.

Please, lets stay the course as we have some momentum behind Chainfire. If we keep pushing at the same point and get as much of our collective weight behind it, I think we will have a shot at success, which is not to necessarly sue HTC, but to get the problem resolved, and to hopefully get better and quicker response to issue moving forward.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Response posted on HTCClassAction.org

See: http://www.HTCClassAction.org/responses.php#official

Further comments on that response?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
I think actually doing this would be permature, as it's not an official HTC press release, it's completely contrary to what the VP and HTC support says, and if you read the quoted statement you will see they don't actually say there will not be a fix nor that the ATI hardware is not present (see the response on HTCClassAction.org)

I don't see any harm in starting to gather the needed information without actualy planting the bomb though, go for it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] swiftgs:
Re

what a *****ng wankers at HTC, how can they tell such a bull sh*t since even tomtom is outperformed by old devices...

Sorry, this is my last HTC, I never thought the lawsuit could work, because how can a few 1000 XDA people afford a lawsuit agains biggest PDA manufacterer, the complete lawsuit is done as stated before that they simply don't advertised with the imageon chipset!

Lets continue the war on making as much people aware of the issue, that will hurt them in their pockets!!!

@chainfire, maybe it's a plan to combine forces a little bit, at least i will put a link to your site on the frontpage, good for +1000 unique visitors a day. know you have far more but everything helps (maybe you can also add a link to HTCdriver.com on your site, however I won't remove my link if you don't do that :))

@ XDA people, just continue to spread the world!

maybe we will ever have succes.... :mad:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] forcedalias:
That is so true!