yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
To help other people understand, here's how many of us feel:

1. You save up and decide to buy a ferrari. You buy it, then you find out that gas tank size is 2 gallons, but they say they will increase it in later models.

2. You buy yourself an expensive MP3 player. Then you find out it only plays MP3s in constant bit rate (no VBR) and only 128 kbps or lower. Manufacturer is surprised that you expected it to play all MP3s and promises you to consider it in future models.

3. You buy a drink in a bar, and they tell you to open your mouth so they can pour it in. Glass is sold separately.

4. You order an office chair online. When it comes you see that there is no seat part. They tell you that this model doesn't come with a seat, but they plan to release models that are more "comfort-oriented".

5. You buy a PC. At home, you find out that there's no hard drive, obly the floppy and CD drives. Manufacturer tells you that due to customer feedback on this model, they plan to release models with storage in near future.

6. You buy a GeForce 8800 GTX, and you find out that it only plays Crysis and Bioshock. It plays them very well, but it doesn't play any other games at all. nVidia is amazed that you want your 8800 to play all games, and says they will consider this feedback for future videocard models.

7. You buy an expensive logitech computer mouse. After 1 minute of using it, batteries die. Logitech tells you that it's operating properly - mouse's batteries last for 1 to 2 minutes, then have to be recharged for 2 to 3 hours. They will consider making more energy-efficient mice in future.

8. You decide to go all-out and get new Windows Vista Ultimate. After installing it, you find out that it has no hardware support for AMD processors, ATI video cards and it supports only Microsoft mice and keyboards. Microsoft tells you that it's a licencing issue and no support for above-mentioned hardware is planned.

All of these sound abosultely insane, at least for me. I think that since PDA market is so relativelly new, we fail to draw parallels to other markets which are stable and well-known by us, customers. We blindly expect certain things from other companies, like a seat in a chair, hardware support for OS, etc. And companies provide, since in the end, if they are not complete dumbasses, they want to satisfy customers and want to meet and even EXCEED their expectations.

Yet many of us, unfortunately, fail to expect the same from companies like HTC.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mav42:
I dont know how you can compare a PDA with a car? plus to use your um car comparison, you can upgrade you car's engine or up tune your motor as it were, you cant do that with the KAISER..also when a company markets a Ferrari and you end up with a volkswagon, I dont know about you but i would be a lil miffed
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greenbrd:
So now you're saying HTC deliberately crippled the device? A few days ago you were positioning them as an innocent victim worthy of our sympathy.

Car manufacturers publish specs that include the vehicle's torque, horsepower and other pertinent data. They don't "tune down" their engines after they publish those specs.

Also, I've never heard of a car company releasing a lemon and then putting the blame on a supplier.

But those new WM devices aren't promoted as having VGA graphics. Are they?

What else you got? Watching you grasp at straws is getting fun.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
I have got nothing more. Someone as clever as you can't be beaten by anyone... unless you include those evil tyrants from Taiwan who duped you into buying their shoddy piece of kit.

So go fund the lawsuit. Sue HTC under the trade descriptions act in your territory - or better still get your local trading standards people to do it for you.

Or better yet stop being so defensive about this issue and listen to other people.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greenbrd:
Wow. I've not seen this type of unconditional love for a company outside of Apple in my life. You didn't ask, but I'll advise you anyway - save your blind loyalty for your kids, your parents, your spouse, or your god. Don't waste it on a corporation. They sure as hell wouldn't do it for you.

HTC might be a great company that makes great products 99% of the time, but they dropped the ball on this and they don't deserve a free pass.

If you're happy with your device, why not say so and leave it at that? This is a thread for those of us who aren't happy with ours. Why are you so hellbent on popping in every once in a while to defend HTC and make weakass excuses for them and tell the rest of us that we're wrong or unreasonable? What exactly do you get out of that?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] meeek:
That new NVIDIA chip sounds beastly!

I saw the concept on endgadget awhile ago.

Sounds promising =)

P.S. what's the status of this lawsuit?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ?Glitch:
You know, being a >Decade network/security eng/admin, I'm thinking that NVIDIA might be a good thing for those that like buying a new system/phone every year, they paired nicely with AMD in the desktop world for about a year and sometimes less, a lot less when overclocked, but if you have that two year contract, that just ain't gonna do it for me...

?Glitch
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
Amazing.... yet another person who confuses the devils advocate with an HTC-lover. Have you guys actually read this thread. Although pretty much everyone has acknowledged that a class action will never see the light of day in a court, there are still some amazing suggestions and claims put forward.

Personally, I will be delighted if more manufacturers start making WM devices as competition will breed faster development and will also help keep prices keen, but in the meantime, the only factory outputting worthwhile WM devices is HTC. About 20% of the posters on this thread are hellbent on destroying their reputation and trying to specifically damage their future sales through negative actions - I am not suggesting that HTC should have a free ride - simply that the HTC knockers should take a more balanced view.

If you don't like HTC, don't buy their products. If you think you were mis-sold your device then once and for all put your money where your mouth is. Ask the retailer/network for your money back. if they say no, then sue them.

If you win, come back and crow. If you lose, come back and admit it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] evilc:
Does anyone have a letter from HTC saying that the Kaiser does not have Imageon hardware onboard? (Rather than "Not enabled")?

If so, surely a trades description act claim in the UK would be valid, as the spec stated the chipset, which if you look up states that it includes Imageon hardware.

I know that we think that the hardware is actually there, just no software driver for it, but if they are releasing statements that the hardware is not there (To try and make us back off as a fix would not be possible) then we could possibly get them on that.

Another angle is surely to approach Qualcomm and ask if drivers can be bought. If HTC were unwilling to stump up the money, then maybe a company could be formed to release a "product" which is the Kaiser drivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] vproman:
I recall reading a press release on HTC's website that highlighted the fact that the phone used the Qualcomm msm7200 and in addition highlighted the features of the msm7200, including "3d hardware acceleration." There was nothing that said the 3d hardware acceleration in the msm7200 would not be used. Not surprisingly, that press release is no longer there.

Due do Broadcom's lawsuit of Qualcomm's patent infringment, some of us believe that Qualcomm is unable to support any of the infringing products, which includes the msm7200. No support means no drivers no matter how much money you offer them.

I also read that HTC may have assumed that since the msm7200 was a faster processor, it wouldn't need 3d hardware acceleration. The problem with this is that the processor was split in this version, one handling the phone-specific processes and the other handling applications, which means the application processor is actually slower than advertised. I'm curious to know if the HTC Wizard used 3d acceleration hardware or not. Someone care to confirm or debunk this?

If HTC had realized that the msm7200's 3d hardware acceleration would not be usable, I doubt they would have included it in the msm7200's specs. Either that or some dumb HTC employee copied and pasted the specs from Qualcomm's website for the press release.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
I Love this...

"If you're happy with your device, why not say so and leave it at that? This is a thread for those of us who aren't happy with ours".

This Forum is not supposed to be a soapbox for anyone! It is supposed to be a developers forum with equality in discussions even though the 'pro' posts seem to get locked...

I come back after a month and its still the same old rubbish.

154 pages of dross.

I vote that if this does not go any further after the proposed 'update' from HTC (if any!) then this whole issue be dropped and locked..Or somebody actually DO something about it.

BTW, don't look at me for any action, I'm classed as one of those 'HTC lovers who are happy with their unit' and also went out and bought a Nokia E90 with full keyboard, no greasy screen dialer, Card Export built in and an office suite that actually IS an office suite!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Bratag:
Actually I dont think its up to you to decide what the forum is for and isnt for. The moderators and runners of the forum may be able to do that but you do not appear to be either. The forum is a public area and people can choose to use it as they see fit, this is obviously something that concerns them.

I have already expressed my opinion on this topic so wont bother re-iterating that.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Digitaltigre:
I'm pretty sure HTC is the one doing all the damage to their reputation.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
What do you mean by saying "and an office suite that actually is an office suite!!!" ? Why? E90 has an office suite that is better than the one we have installed in our kaisers? Can we find e90's office for ppc?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] SouthernLuke:
The E90 is running symbian, not likely that there is a port at the moment.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] evilc:
Nice info there, thanks. So let's assume it is the Broadcom suit which is to blame - surely any limitation would be on Qualcomm profiting from Broadcom's patent? So maybe we could actually approach Broadcom to apply for a license to distribute the software. We would probably need to pay Qualcomm too, but you may just find out the per unit cost would be something people would be willing to pay...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jasperrr:
Any chance that you can recall the approximate date of the press release?

If so, we could try to trck down the press release on the 'Internet Archive'

Currently, the latest available 'copy' of HTC's website is from May 29, 2007:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070509195211/www.htc.com/press_room/03-press-2007.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20070529122245/http://www.htc.com/

If the press release was somewhere after May, we could either wait or contact IA and try to ask them for the pages.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Boinng:
That really is an odd thing to say. The E90 bundles Quickoffice, which isn't bad, but it isn't exactly world changing either. It's certainly no better than MS Office Mobile, and on Symbian phones it's a poor cousin to Dataviz's Documents to Go. It's obvious that the likes of Nokia and Sony Ericsson bundle Quickoffice simply because it's cheap, while users are happy to pay for the alternative.

In what way is MS Office Mobile not an office suite??
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
First and foremost like all other MS apps on WinMo its a PDA fudge, on the E90 even in the basic Quickoffice (even better in the new version), the document is displayed and can be edited just as it is on a PC to a good degree, an Exel spreadsheet LOOKS like an Exel spreadsheet because it is displayed at PC screen width and just try PRINTING your document from the Kaiser... FULL BT printing built into the E90 even photo quality prints..

Anyway, forget that, its off topic and was only a trailing comment in my orig post. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
Maybe it's off topic but nevertheless it's usefull for me because my next purchase will definately be a nokia! Does E90 support touch screen and 3d acceleration?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
OMG look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Xs_Qb7O90&NR=1

E90 rules!

Hahahahaha I already feel pitty for the fools who are going to buy SE Xperia qualcomm msm 7200 based and HTC manufactured phone! At least when I bought my kaiser there weren't any E90s! E90 was released 7 months later!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Boinng:
Erm... the E90 has been out at least as long as the kaiser, if not longer. If it's really what you want, then I pity you for not doing your homework in the first place!

To answer your question no, it doesn't have a touchscreen. And yes, games are fun aren't they? Goodness.

I still wouldn't touch the Nokia with a bargepole :) The kaiser may have it's faults in the video department, but it's still a far more powerful and practical tool IMO.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
I think the moderators would certainly disagree with you on that one or we would end up being called the:

'Daily Star undevelopers Forum and advertising blogosphere!' :D

Actually, when you look at it, there ain't far to go!!! :o
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
Don't feel sorry for me! Keep your sorrow for iphone owners:p

I did my homework! But here in Greece there wasn't any of the E90 devices in the market! And I needed support for the greek language! I also don't remember E90 in the nokia site (europe greece) when kaiser first came in the greek market! And nokia was the first firm I was considering! E61 wasn't enough for me back then (no GPS)! So I chose kaiser, but if E90 was out, I would have bought it (GPS+vga out my friend... that's a pro device)! I was doing my homework for 2 months you know and I know what I'm saying! I didn't like kaiser because of the lack of vga out but I also hated the bulky advantage! If I only had the chance to buy the E90 back then... So pls don't say I didn't do my homework!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jasperrr:
One week left for HTC to release the promised update
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] maati:
I bet they won't. Who wants to join?

They just said they would release an update without thinking about how to do this, just to make the community calm down.

Well, they achieved their goal - htcclassaction is dead and the threads about bad performance are dying...

Why would they want to release an update anymore?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gladesmellzgood:
HTC blows i am never gonna buy another HTC device after this kaiser is the last one till they get their act straight and will definitely have to warn people against it. If that new SE device is up to par i may upgrade to that or might go to the dark side and just get an iphone2 when it eventually comes out.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] drownage:
ditto... ur exact words...

yay iphone 2... :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
Just to add to this, look at virtually every other Kaiser fault you see in this Forum BT audio, Wlan, Battery life, BT connectivity to other devices and you will find they don't happen with the E90....:o
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Boinng:
Or most Kaisers of course :)

I'm quite sure if I trawled an E90 forum I could quickly come up with a list of "common" faults and failings, it's only what you'll find on any forum dedicated to anything.

Every review I've read marks the Kaiser's GPS much more highly, even with the improvements the Nokia's had (it was next to useless when released). VGA out is a neat trick, but no criteria for me.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tsadek:
This is a dead issue now.

No update on htcclassaction.org since the end of feb (over 1 month ago now)

Nothing from chainfire in a good few pages - No direct criticism is meant just a statement of fact and I'm sure chainfire is busy with other life stuff that we all deal with.

No update from HTC yet - I bet it won't come, why would it?

I realise class actions take a lot of time but to not hear anything for 1 month sounds like a dead issue to me.

I so wish I was wrong.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ?Glitch:
And the patter will repeat itself, they said they would enable 3D GPU on up and comming versions of their phones, but WTF else will be broken, enjoy your sh!t sandwich while they still chuckle about selling you a piece of etched silicon and plastic for $700+....

?Glitch
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greenbrd:
You are the biggest HTC apologist around. I have never seen a post from you that indicates that you are only playing devil's advocate. Everything is pro-HTC, anti-anybody-who-complains.

I have read the thread and I'm one of those who doesn't believe any class action suit will ever take place. Maybe whoever reads this thread to you can point that out next time.

HTC has damaged their own reputation by releasing a crippled product. Those of us who post poor reviews are only informing others of the the truth of HTC's actions toward their customers. It's HTC-lovers like you who do in fact give them a free ride by posting such balanced views like suggesting that HTC should be "applauded" for cheating their customers.

I've already said many times that I will not buy another HTC product if they don't provide a fix.

Barring a class-action or individual lawsuit, we both know that the device is nonreturnable at this stage. So unless I file a suit in small-claims court - which I have not ruled out - your challenge is a bull**** one.

Your very phrasing of "winning" and "losing" flies directly in the face of you claiming to be a mere "devil's advocate." You are the one who is taking sides for some reason and you are the one who just can't understand why the rest of us don't share your manlove for HTC.

Again, if you're happy with your device, then what is your motivation for trashing those of us who aren't? Do you picture yourself as some Erin Brockovich who needs ride to the rescue of poor, defenseless HTC?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
No bull****. Put your money where your mouth is. According to you its cut and dried that HTC defrauded you, so take it to the small claims court and let us all know how you get on.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jasperrr:
Don't reply about the things that you can defend, reply to everything:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 4Site:
I cannot you people still reply to unwired its pretty evident that his HTC PR.

Just ignore his posts.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
I will defend my statements when one unhappy Kaiser owner proves their claims in a court of law. Apparently there are two million of you, so it shouldnt be too difficult to find one who has the balls and budget to take their retailer to court.

(In the US, it costs us$45 apparently).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] xtra3:
That was february 7th.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
Correct.

And the thread was doing so well without any balance...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dperren:
I think the reason for inaction has been the fact that HTC have promised some form of update before the end of this month. Even if this doesn't get the 3D accellerator working, but merely gets rid of the lag in the GUI, and brings the performance of the phone up to where it should be in relation to prior devices, I suspect many of us (including myself) will be contented.

If it doesn't, I'm sure that things will spark up again.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jasperrr:
If you would have actually followed everything, you could know that everyone has said to await the march update.

But if there's not going to be one or it just sucks, there's going to be a lot of people that get active again.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jolly roffler:
Nice cop out, you sure showed us..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rfarnell:
There is a sense of defeatism about this thread. It is as if the promise of an update from HTC has killed all the momentum of taking any action. It is now the end of March with no update in sight. What are we going to do if HTC do not provide something in the next week?

Rob
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hello77:
I sort of a agree; but i guess we have all been waiting for htc to say something for so long; why not wait a little more if they are "promising" an update. My question is if they are promising "something" what does "something" mean and "when" does it occur....if "something" means nothing or if "when" has past; then its time to move on....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hello77:
I have the balls; but dont have the budget... but the reason for going to court would not be because of what you think --- not the video issue;

but the speaker issue as the speaker is defective....

hey, could i take this to small claims and only claim the cost of the phone????
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mav42:
HTC announce driver update..yes we have heard it before....

What a Beautiful Carrot HTC has dangled before us ......Sad thing, it looks like most of us believe it....Its not going to happen, why would they 1 minute say drivers are in the pipeline..then to to others they have no intention of doing so..I feel we are being conned(yet again funny that), and this is just a delaying trick...

Just get with the program and SUE the lying,thieving, cheating B@#$!#ds ( im not bitter :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hello77:
ill be bitter for you :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sacre:
I am new to this thread but i've been keeping up with this thread hoping to see someone claim "The patch has been released!"

Well, its the 29th of march and there is no release. Sadly i broke my HTC touch.. Just last night, i snapped the screen and now i can't do anything with it, cannot even return it. So, i am kind of depressed but i still want to see this patch be released. Hopefully i can buy myself a HTC 6800 from bell, something with an actual qwerty keyboard that will register the buttons, unlike the HTC touch.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 4Site:
Looks like HTC aren't alone in screwing over their customers.

http://forums.creative.com/creative...hread.id=116332&view=by_date_ascending&page=1
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bronx:
... and why the hell are You posting same crap in three threads? stop cross posting! we heard You!

damn.

now I just wonder if this reply bout no update coming is true...

oh well...

br

bro
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BusterTyTN:
Companies announce heaven on earth - non binding, of course - just to calm down customers. I can tell you, these statements by HTC are worth nothing, nothing will happen, and time is working for them. The only way to get them moving is to activate a lawyer right now, the sooner the better. Pick up all the items which have been announced but are missing (video drivers / touchscreen drivers, both causing inacceptable system delay), sort out the malfunctions (RLOD, battery drain) and so on. Provide a short summary, detailed proof and clear and simple descriptions on how the individual faults can be reproduced (I've tried that in my first post dealing with the excessive battery drain, thread #371734, though I admit there may be better examples). You simply can't operate with lengthy, fuzzy statements at this stage. Holding enough dynamite in our hands we may not even need to worry about the cost of a legal representative. My 5 ct.

Buster