yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Digitaltigre:
Anyone that has the wherewithal to realize they have a problem with their Tilt/Kaiser/TyTN II/P4550 will easily be able to find out how to correct it (if drivers are released). If they don't feel they have a problem then who cares? It's not our goal to rescue the worlds Kaisers from the grip of poor software implementation.

It's funny there have been several detractors here claiming they are perfectly happy with their devices and complaining about all this complaining. It takes a big push to get a global company like HTC to respond. Just remember all this (how your Kaiser worked fine and you didn't want to hear it from us, wanted these threads moved elsewhere, etc.) when you are flashing your device and enjoying the fruits of our labor!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] briggs81:
This is hilarious.

The 2mp camera on the htc s710 kicks the kaisers cameras @$$. I don't know if its video driver related or not, but this light sensing garbage kaiser camera does that makes it so blurry and takes forever to take a picture in low-med light is not present on the s710.

I snap a picture with the s710 and it focuses it really fast and takes the picture nicely and i can waive the camera around, it's still blury, but it's not slow motion like the kaiser.

unbelievable!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Alemaker:
true dat !!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
I agree with you there, but even the ROM Chefs want this so their roms run well so the dont seem slow on the device. Once we have the drivers that fix *EVERYTHING* then it will be super smoth when sliding and when scrolling in anything and any video playback would be fine. The ROMs with full course meals would run like lite roms.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] wilsonzone:
I feel the same, if we don't keep this issue alive until our devices are up to par with what we were promised then they may keep putting us off until we are forced to buy a replacement. I was promised a cutting edge device and I want one. Not to say I don't love my Tilt but when I want to get information from my device I expect better response. That being said I do REALLY appreciate all the help this forum has been to me in helping improve what I purchased.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
You see, THAT'S where your wrong.

Where did HTC ever advertise that the AT&T Tilt had hardware acceleration?

They only mis-advertised the TyTynII (and the debate is still out on that!) so a class action of this sort can only be done in the US (the laws are different everywhere else) and can only be done against AT&T unless you bought a HTC branded device in the US.

I hope I'm wrong for all Tilt owners but the point may soon be moot, we may get a ROM update or we may not but by the time this class action ever gets off the ground and resolved the phone will probably be wayyy out of date and most of us will have changed to a new device anyway.

I bet most people on here change their phone every year, I know I do. :o
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] notten:
What you fail to realize is that the money won't be outdated. Suing HTC will get us compensated for the drawbacks of the device in the way of punitive damages or as the result of a settlement. Once we recover the $100 or so the 3D drivers are worth we're going to apply that towards a purchase of the current best WinMo PDA phone with proper 3D drivers, etc etc. I don't know how courts work in many places in the world, but in the US at least the courts cannot force a company to produce something that's nonexistent. Only pay for selling something on the premise that the product includes a certain feature which is subsequently nonexistent. Anyway, I certainly hope HTC releases a driver. It will be a win for them as much as it will be for us, and I will certainly buy another HTC phone if they do produce drivers. Without them I'm buying something else. Maybe Toshiba, ETEN, or even a Nokia.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] XtreMe_G:
actually, it does say htc on the back of the phone........
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
I hope you are correct, I really do.

What puzzles me the most is with the US lawyers love of lawsuits, why is it they are not falling over themselves to take this on? There has been enough publicity on this to catch even a blind man's eye.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Alemaker:
wrong again,

the advertising for the Tilt includes descriptions of the "excellent" media experience.

I'm done with your original statement regarding Tilt users being left out to dry,as it is not at all accurate, and the point, as I brought up earlier, is that it is highly unlikely that a major purchaser of HTC equipment (ATT) would be left out of any settlement if one should occur.

I do hope this does get resolved before any legality gets involved, and yes, ATT owners would be included, as the driver is not specific to the Tilt, but the platform (chipset).

On a side note- I would buy a new phone more often except for the @#$$$ 2 yr. contract ATT locked me into.:mad:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ?Glitch:
Yes, but I would think that the specs provided to AT&T were the same as the specs provided to the public for the Tytyn II, probably a bit more detailed and with options like (100/200/300 etc... but all containing the same chipset, and likely boasting 3D graphics as well as the specs listed by AT&T include "Powered by Qualcomm MSM7200 400 MHz processor" again, a statement of the chipset, and processor which is Tytyn II owners basis of a class action suit), thus AT&T would be victim as such under a class action case, with far greater damages than us as individuals, damage to service reputation and flying the AT&T logo on a product that didn't measure up to what HTC advertised, AT&T customers would likely obtain compensation for the suit through their billing structure. Regardless, if they fix the issue, I'd wager that the Tilt will get the fix regardless of what AT&T says about it, it wouldn't seem prudent that a carrier that purchases so many handsets for a huge customer base would get screwed, but ya never know, it's 2008. Any suit against AT&T would show cause for damages against HTC...

?Glitch
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Guys, I think with recent insider interview and other developments... There may be a possibility that HTC is not hte one to blame, it's the Qualcomm.

I'd personally be a lot more happier with in that case. I kinda like HTC. My 3 year old Wizard turned out to be the most reliable lil' phone I ever had. It amazes me, quite frankly, and makes me like HTC.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greenbrd:
Many reasons, but the bottom line is that there's not enough money involved to make it worth a lawyer's time at this point.

Besides, lawsuits like this usually don't occur until years after the damages have been inflicted. The dust needs to settle and the lawyers need to know how many defective units were sold to how many buyers in order for them to get an idea of what a lawsuit might be worth.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greenbrd:
This is true to a certain extent. But the bottom line is that HTC either knowingly or unknowingly sold defective (for lack of a better word) devices to consumers. What goes on behind the scenes between HTC and their suppliers doesn't matter to the end user.

If HTC knowingly sold defective devices, then there is some level of fraud involved. If they didn't know the devices were defective, then there's some level of incompetence involved. Neither scenario looks good for them, but providing a fix will make a lot of harsh feelings go away. I know I would drop my "I'm never buying another HTC device again" rant.

And if they do deliver a fix, I give full credit to the XDA community for raising the awareness of the issue and motivating HTC into action.

And if the HTC fanboys on this board who insist that their current devices are "just fine" don't like all the negative posts, then they certainly can opt to not install any fixes that may come our way. I wonder how many of them have the 'nads to publicly state that they won't install any new drivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] andyclay:
email confirmation?

It was mentioned in another thread that Chainfire had gotten a direct email confirmation that the new driver email was in fact from the HTC CEO. However I don't see anything posted on the class action site that a direct confirmation of the email has been received. Can Chainfire comment on that?

Did you get a direct response from the CEO confirming the original email?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] PhilipL:
Hi

Following on from another thread.

What is there to analyze regarding the headers? An email is just a text document, it is ridiculously easy to take any email you had received from HTC and alter the body to say anything you liked and then forward that on to a website swearing the content was for real.

The only way the email could be proved genuine was if it was digitally signed. That would make it tamper proof, and the certificate could be checked to ensure it was from the real person. This isn't the case I bet?

The Chief Executive of HTC would not be stupid enough to promise something they couldn't deliver, for obvious legal reasons, so if it was real, why is the Chief Executive emailing a single person with the good news? Why is it not public on their website?

I guess people are wanting to believe what they want to believe.

The only official statement on the HTC website is this one http://www.htc.com/press_room/03-press-4-2008-0122.htm

Anything else is just hearsay or unconfirmed rumors.

Regards

Phil
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mackaby007:
Time will tell ....

Man you are one negative individual! Maybe he did contact chainfire...maybe he didn't, but unless YOU are HIM, I sincerely doubt that your knowledge in this area surpasses anyone else's, as this is simply based on fact or fiction....in which you play no part. :)

Time will tell soon enough. So stop posting your same old boring OPINION, as we will soon be enlightened as to the authenticity of this e-mail....one way or the other.;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
Phil, you need to see that what would Chainfire gain by faking a email, and then saying that it was from the CEO, he is a guy who is reputable and has proven his point many times. Just step back and wait, don't think the worst of things. Read the book The Secret then do what it says.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
I don't think he was trying to say that Chainfire was trying to create a fake e-mail, rather that someone could have sent a fake e-mail to Chainfire...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] zrgn:
I am going to have to agree with Phil on this one but who knows, stranger things have happened. Here is what I am thinking based on that article by WM Experts:

http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/editorials/qualcomm_htc_chipsets_and_feat.html

Maybe it's time to pick a new mark and raise the stakes a little. Here is what I take away from the article: Qualcomm made a buggy chip. <full stop> I'm willing to bet that Qualcomm does not want that rumour like that (true or false) to break out or to be looked at more closely. Perhaps if this message starts catching on Qualcomm will either need to respond or give HTC whatever they need to make the problem go away. It's easy to see that HTC would not want to point the finger at Qualcomm even if their new chip did not perform properly.

So perhaps this is as good a place as any to say: "Sounds like Qualcomm made a defective chip."

It makes sense really. Were special video drivers utilized in prior phones? Do the new phones perform worse than the old phones with respect to video? Hmm maybe there is something to this.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iservealot:
I am tired of reading a bunch of noob responses. The industry does not work how you like it to work. The only problem is that Qualcom did not provide HTC with the full hardware SDK to efficiently provide full driver support. Why? Because that would mean HTC would probably have to pay more.

Yes HTC dropped the ball by not providing full hardware features. All that can be done is hope that HTC truly has purchased the full SDK, and is planning on releasing software updates to current models to allow for better implemented driver support.

(Now hopefully some idiot won't take what I wrote, or any other of my writings and derive a plagiarized petition from it.)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] zrgn:
Perhaps my assumption that prior phone models, such as the Magician, do not utilize video acceleration is not correct. The article I referenced above from WM Experts insinuates this, but I don't know if it is true. Can anyone else answer this question?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
Get a life!! If you are NOT one then....

a) Why did you by one in the first place (FORGET ADVERTISING OR YOU WOULD BY EVERY PIECE OF CRAP ON THE SHOPPING CHANNEL!!!!)

b) Why are you on this forum??? XDA=HTC or did you not know??

We are all "FANBOYS" as you say cause we are trying to IMPROVE the device by either DEVELOPEMENT or pressuring HTC to provide upgrades.

If you are just in this to get financial gain from HTC then find another forum.

Soz..:o
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] PhilipL:
Hi

Indeed I wasn't saying Chainfire was faking anything, just that we don't know the source of the email that was sent to him.

As for being negative I'm not, I'm simply being realistic. Being optimistic is what made us all believe the Kaiser would arrive with accelerated video in the first place, as we wanted to believe it and made some assumptions that turned out to be completely false. Lets not make the same mistake again, until it's official from HTC on their website, we can't let up the publicity and drive to get answers and a fix.

Regards

Phil
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dirlan2001:
Any person that can do something with these ?

Hi,

As I said before, it would be a good idea to take a look at the hx4700 OS. This device has the same ImageOn chip built in. I made a dump of the latest official HP upgrade. Found out that the original device is named 'HTC Roadster'' ....

I copied all 'graphics-related' files I could find in a zip. Give it a try ? If for some reason I missed something, let me know.

Hope this gets solved before my Kaiser arrives :D

Dirk
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
Correction. Read Classaction. org to have the full picture.

Some member(s) here on XDA received a reply from Peter Chou. One of them was 99.9 % authentic. This following CF' words.

never the les, peter Chou did NOT replied directly towards CF as far as we know.

it is better believing that good things still might happen though?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
This is some pretty exciting news, but of course the last thing to do is wait until April rolls around.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] nsa666:
It will most likely NOT work because its not the same chip.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greenbrd:
What in the world are you tripping on??? I don't want any "financial gain" from anybody - I just want whatever fixes it will take to allow my device to play movie files as well as my five-year old Dell Axim does.

My post was directed at the HTC defenders who call people like me a whiner and insist that the device is "just fine" the way it is and that it's not "intended" to be a graphics device.

Chill out and reread my post, pal. No need to fly off the handle in a misguided direction like that.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
I suppose if ChainFire sent Mr Chou an email, and Mr Chou's written response included ChainFire's original message, then ChainFire can be fairly certain that it's authentic. Sure, someone might have been sniffing ChainFire's packets. Sure, Mr Chou might not have responded. Sure, someone else might have responded instead. Sure, the sabouteur might have spoofed the header and falsified content. Sure, said sabouteur might have imitated Mr Chou's ESL writing style (if it's perceptible? -- I haven't paid attention). But at that point, which theory really sounds like conspiracy? ;) ;)

Of course... only ChainFire knows what he did/didn't send, and what Mr Chou did/didn't send back. I'm anxious to hear from the guy who knows.:)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
Thanks for the idea, Dirk. From what I'm reading, the hx4700 used an ATI Imageon "3220" chip. By comparison, these HTC phones use a Qualcomm MSM 7200 or 7500, in which ATI's graphics core is embedded, or "on die". It's a very different architecture. Someone more knowledgeable would have to tell us if there's any possibility of reusing the hx4700 drivers, but I suspect that it's not likely.

Edit: Looks like there's still some debate on exactly where the graphics core resides in these HTC phones: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=363468
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
Sorry if already posted, but look at what the moderator (and Qualcomm staff engineer, per sig) at this site has to say:

http://brewforums.qualcomm.com/showthread.php?t=17446.

Am I reading that right? Is he saying Qualcomm doesn't actually have video drivers for the MSM 7x00 chipset, but is working on them? Does Qualcomm deserve some of the heat that's being put on HTC?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] foosoomin:
My email to Mr Peter Chou (CEO of HTC)

Dear Forumer,

Look below, i have sent this email to Mr Peter Chou, CEO of HTC on regards to the graphic accelleration driver for HTC devices that uses Qualcomm MSM7200 chipset & this email was sent successfully
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] PhilipL:
Hi

Lets deal in the facts shall we, none of what you say actually happened. If you have any knowledge on how emails work, you would know how easy it is to spoof an email and forward it on to someone else, it's nothing harder than opening it in notepad, so here we are, lets see how easy it is to prove my point:

How to spoof an email from someone at HTC

1) Get an email you have really received from HTC, for example, request a new password from the the HTC e-Club. This gives you all the correct SMTP headers so it looks nice and genuine.

2) Save the email as an email file to your desktop, now open it in Notepad.

3) In notepad simply delete the text about resetting your password and add some madeup text about what ever you like. You may want to remove your real email address that appears and use a temporary one!

4) At the top, change the email address that says from HTC support and make it the email address of whoever you like at HTC.

5) Save the Notepad file.

6) Double click the file to open it as an email, it now looks like it was from someone else and says something completely different, if not ok go back to step 4) and re-edit.

7) Once done, forward on to the website of your choice claiming it is a real email.

8) Laugh, when they try and be clever and check the SMTP headers, they will all be correct and show the email came from HTC servers, they see it looks all correct and assume it mus be geninue, of course you and I now know different.

9) Hang out with your gang and laugh at how gullible everyone is and take bets on how far it spreads around the net.

Job done.

Regards

Phil
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] andyclay:
Peter Chou's reponce

Chainfire.

There is so much chatter about your posting of an email from HTC's CEO. Could you please take a few mins and post some details so we can reduce the expert voices on this subject to just one.. You!

Thanks
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
I agree. Unless the email was digitally signed, credibility rests solely on the 3 post person who says s/he received Mr. Chou's reply. This could very well be an elaborate hoax by either the pro resolution camp or the few corporate whores we've been seeing around here trying to take the heat off HTC.

No matter what it is, if anyone thinks HTC's engineers were not aware of or reported the fact these devices were under performing prior to market release, I know some people who will gladly sell you ocean front property in New Orleans.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dirlan2001:
As far as I could get into it, I believe the chipsets are the same. Only; hx4700 has it 'on 'board', while MSM7xxx has it 'on die'. But the specifications NEED to be the same. If not : Qualcomm cooked it up. In the zip I posted before there's a ATI HardwareTable included. I guess it's there one should look into.

Besides, I stumbled up on a very interesting paper, while searching on specifications for the GPS-chip used in the upcoming new HP Smartphones. I guess Qualcomm is not very much interested in some issues. As I understand it, they are not in an urge to do anything about whatever to do with their MSM 6xxx or 7xxx chipsets. And it explains also why the latest HP 6xx and 9xx are likely NOT to be released in the US for now.

Cheers,

Dirk
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dsyro:
In other threads there's more people reporting that they received e-mails from Peter Chou. Let's all just wait and see. Skepticism is always healthy though...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
@PhilipL and borealcool

I was under the impression that ChainFire had personally received a response from Mr Chou -- separate from the "Mr Chou's response" post we've all seen. I agree, it's trivially simple to piece together an official-looking email message, post it online, and claim it's real. I also agree it's simple to spoof header information, including Sender, and thereby falsify email.

I was simply suggesting that if ChainFire received what appears to be an email response from Mr Chou, and if Mr Chou quoted ChainFire's original inquery in his response... then it's more likely to be legit than a hoax. Yes, even then, the most dedicated hoaxster could obtain ChainFire's original message, and use it in his fake response, but that is not likely.

Then again, I may have misunderstood altogether... maybe ChainFire didn't receive email from Mr Chou. My bad.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] foosoomin:
Guys,

Look here : http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1934431&postcount=1309

Even though i managed to sent an email to Mr Peter Chou, i expected that he will not reply back to me.

Who am i, for him to reply back ? Haha.....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
Correct. Headers can still be manipulated and there is only one 100% reliable truth:

An awaited answer from Peter Chou towards Chainfire directly. What are the chances? Guesstimate less than 5% as the CEO would probably not reply towards the potential "enemy" directly. (I would eat my old socks)

As for the HTC Corp Affaire staff reading this message

... What can you loose or win now. Just give it a thought... A simply reply towards Jorrit confirming the driver coming out would gain back a certain credibility towards thousands of users re-stating HTC is a thrustfull company where "CARE" (your customer support program here in TW) also plays a role OUTSIDE Taiwan. Otherwise I would suggest to remove this mission statement from your site honestly. It looks funny for a TW based company to ignore the cry for help of so many users.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
First, yes the SMTP headers can be manipulated, so it can not be 100% verified. HOWEVER, due to there being several different people from all over the world who contacted me saying similar things, added with the SMTP headers of several mails, I think it is legit.

I have not received mail from mr Chou personally, though I did send him a few :)

In the meantime, check out this link I just received:

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5777&Itemid=1

(I promise it's interesting enough to read!)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
YAYYYYYY!!!

I hope they release the video driver update, GPS update, REV A update, and windows mobile 6.1 update in one nice, STABLE package before the end of March! (for the HTC Vogue at least)

I'm wondering exactly how much of a performance increase this will bring...