yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jym04:
This is from one of their official press releases, and might be interesting. They clearly said that there's 3D support, even VGA encode/decode:

This is from after they had released TyTN II :

Maybe this can fit somewhere in htcclassaction.org?

Link: http://www.htc.com/press_room/03-press-070905.htm
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Interesting. It still doesn't literally say that these devices that are already out make use of it, but they certainly do imply it!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] forcedalias:
Good work CF.

Just made a second donation. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] redsrule2500:
wow :confused:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] forcedalias:
Hah. To think, those dumb folks still have it hosted on their site. Not an ounce of common sense in those guys, huh.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] forcedalias:
Try http://www.pdadb.net
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Heh, I just got a few very interesting responses through e-mail... site will be updated shortly with a heap of new things... including an 'updates' section to easily see what has been added lately :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dperren:
Such as drawing menus on screen, you useless collection of ****baskets?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
When you get around to it, can you also post the jittery and lagging web page scrolling youtube video? There is too much focus on video playback when it's not the only function affected.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
The web page scrolling is a separate issue - and one easily fixed with KaiserTweak (written by Chainfire).

But you're right, HTC have taken the playback issue and run with it, ignoring the rest. Which makes me worry that their "fix" will just be an updated media player that uses the hardware acceleration without opening it to the rest of the system - something like Coreplayer have apparently done.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] endiz:
Don't keep us in the dark.. this is too exciting =)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
They mention TyTN II specifically as already using the technology and a paragraph later they state that it supports 3D and VGA encode/decode, I think this is the best ammunition as of yet as far as "implied" feature set goes.

GREAT find.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
Does it solve it for the Touch Dual as well?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
I think it looks great though perhaps you should clarify the DirectDraw passage and inform that it relates very much to video playback (as well).

Also from what I understand decode acceleration of video it tightly connected to DirectDraw/DirectX even on the mobile platform. So it's not just affecting rendering of video it's also affecting decoding of video.

Actually it's most probably affecting video recording as well as the chipset also supports encode, not just decode.

Also, judging by the CPU load I would say that HTC doesn't use the HW accel for audio decoding either.

It could also be noted somewhere that Qualcomm actually removed all public specs of the chipsets in question when this whole thing started to get infected...

Here's a mirrored PDF since Qualcomm removed theirs:

http://web20.telecomtv.com/docdownl...-8adb-dfc93628f845/MSM7200_Chipset.pdf&id=395

Off topic

Hmm if someone actually released a device that utilized all the features available in this chipset it would be a pretty sweet piece of equipment. ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] forcedalias:
So, are you saying that just because it's business-oriented, its camera should continue to suffer from video driver issues? That it should be slower to process anything with some graphics in it, business-related, entertainment or otherwise?

PDAs are like computers, they have processors, memory, graphics chipsets etc. and just like any other computer, each core component (display, sound, touchscreen input, keyboard input and so on) should have drivers from the get go.

If I go and buy an $850 laptop right now you reckon the graphics/sound/whatever ain't gonna be functioning? I reckon the only reason HTC played down the advertising of the graphics component is that they knew they're going to release it crippled -- but the price certainly didn't reflect that.

When I bought my Trinity, which was supposed to have GPS, I paid just over $750 (which made it more expensive than the TyTn yet the GPS was disabled). Sure, they released a ROM with a "fix" to enable the GPS a couple of months later but the way it's going right now it's possible HTC won't bother with a fix for this video driver issue.

[/sober rant over]
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
GPS, email, office - fine.

Web browsing - not at all - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qbaDLzOU_Y

Syncing - fine, except mine disconnects randomly when connected via bluetooth

Movies - I haven't seen a single movie playing fluently on TyTN II

Is this really acceptable for you? Especially for such expensive device? I paid nearly $1000 for device that my 5 (!) year old iPaq h2210 can easily outperform at ANYTHING?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] stmasi:
Wow.

Sure wish I would've come here before I purchased my TYTN II. I would've saved the $800 and kept my Wizard. This is quite disappointing indeed. Well, I'm definitely going to do my part and hound HTC until this device has been made "complete" or until HTC goes by the wayside. I'm setting up a little automated email system that will send them "my concerns." I'm thinking three times a day will work. Then I'll go ahead and call them once a day as well. Maybe they'll get tired of all the calls and emails and fix it? Hey, if they didn't want calls, they shouldn't have listed phone numbers, right?

:rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
Just paid 5€ to the site's paypal account. I know it's not much but I hope it helps at least a little bit.

To the people concerned about paying to paypal: you don't need a paypal account to make a payment.

Edit: Just submited news to http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com about both new sites. Hopefully they will appear in the headlines.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] biswasd:
love the site....i was thinking about filing a class action against HTC for the driver issue as well....however, speaking as an attorney, the case will be difficult to win.

w/o getting into an in-depth legal analysis, there is a legal principle called "fluff".....it is applicable in this case. Specifically, HTC could argue that the primary purpose of a pda phone is to serve as an electronic organizer as well as other features including video, which is an ancillary function...basic video is supported.

now, my argument would be that while basic video is supported, there exists a serious design flaw with the device in that it does function as specs support (i.e. chipset not supported by drivers). You would have to show economic harm and then seek the appropriate remedy under a breach of implied warranty and merchantability; and also, that the device failed b/c it does function properly under normal, and obvious foreseeable use.

regards,

biswasd.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Infornography:
Nice to see this going somewhere. I've left a tip about this to consumerist.com
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] phan10m:
just signed myself.. hoping to change the ways of the kaiser for awhile
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] redsrule2500:
Looks good, but HTCDrivers.com doesn't make any sense?! Was it translated or something?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Infornography:
lol I love that your an attorney. Just what we needed. Well, the main objective is winning the class action, but the secondary objective is more along the lines of, "to get the problem in the public spotlight, out in the open." Because if this becomes a publicly recognized problem, HTC is more likely to respond. At the very least they'll have to make some kinda statement seeing as this becomes a public relations issue.

What we do know is that, as long as the HTC KAISER or ATT TILT continues to get praises as the PDA OF THE YEAR, we'll never get the support or response that we deserve.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
I love that you're an attorney :D

I know under Dutch law this would probably fall under "failure to produce results that are reasonable to expect", if they stated it somewhere or not. That's a great law. We don't have class action suits here though :(

If you could maybe take an hour or two of your time and look at this more in-depth, and tell us all you can tell, I'm sure you'll be richly rewarded in respect! (to actually take the case, if we proceed with that, we'll have to raise funds to pay somebody).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nick Collision:
Doing my part

Donated $45 to the adwords campaign
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Infornography:
@Chainfire

yaay for dutch laws! Isn't it sad that we have to resort to a class action not even just to get a fix for the problem. But just for an honest answer?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Status update

- Added MSM7500 platform (and devices) to affected list

- Added some more videos

- Changed some chunks of text

- Added more videos

- Added excerpts from Qualcomm MSM7200 PDF to driver details page

And somehow the to-do list is still the same: write the "Responses from HTC" page :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jon_k:
Got a UNIX server with a cronjob? Send me the template you're using and I'll use it to change it up and make my own spin on it. We could spoof the from: field and have several versions of the letter (how many different types of letters do you think we could write?)

Put it in a pool and have it randomly pick a senderID and message body, presto.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doug2873:
every AT&T user who thinks this is ridiculous can kiss my ass. Go to HTC's website http://www.america.htc.com/products/tilt/default.html

and read: "Rich media experience with AT&T Mobile Music, Video, TV and games"...are you kidding me? Try using VTap and see the "rich media experience" you get from this ferrari with a ford pinto transmission.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
The site is pretty much done and submitted to Slashdot.

Go to the page and press the + icon in the Slashdot image to promote this page on Slashdot!

It'd be nice if somebody would also submit it to Digg.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] phan10m:
great thinking
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] g101:
I like the Adwords! I just made a mistake of clicking on it..oppps its not meant for people who already knew.

If you support the htcclassaction.org and own your own website/blog or whatever, you can increase google placement by creating a link of htcclassaction.org in your site with a brief summary text along with it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Hey, how about the misadvertisement of transreflective screen?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] donatom3:
It didn't help my Sprint Touch/Vogue at all.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
Not sure about that.

Also, I got my info a bit mixed up. It's not KaiserTWeak. There is a cab file floating around called "IE slow scroll fix".

That's

what you want to fix the problem.

That's what happens when you go cab crazy! Am dreading the day I have to hard reset - will take days to get things set up again! Should keep a changelog but just can't be bothered! :)

You cna get it here:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=337521&page=4

Post #33 has the cab file attached.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doug2873:
All I can say is that if the supposed update in February doesn't come with WinMo 6.1 and some graphics drivers that dont make the touchscreen and video watching suck ass, I'm definitely taking part in the class action.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
Thanks and by all means, if you have a stable tweaked device, get SPB backup. You'll be laughing at hard resets.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mindbeat:
The KaiserTweak does not fix the issue, just change how the page tab thought using the D-pad.

There is a fix for this, by using an older PIE version, So I think this is still a driver issue.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iservealot:
HTC seems to have taken sides, and have announced they will not released any driver support for current devices.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ericc191:
When did they announce this?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pjwilkin:
Where did they announce it ? Post the URL

I'm sure it'll only persuade people to take action

and also not to buy HTC products any more
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Could someone please post at http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/01/22/htc-chimes-in-on-video-driver-controversy/ comments that HTCClassAction has already issued a response which can be found here: http://www.htcclassaction.org/responses.php#official ?

I tried, but Engadget is failing to send me the confirmation link for about 20 mins now.

Thanks.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] donatom3:
Ok did it. But I'm still waiting for those extra emails you were talking about from HTC.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ericc191:
So all those replies with them asking us to send in all our phone info and telling us a fix is coming soon was just BS.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Ok first of all - it's not clear yet. No sense crashing and tearing our eyes out yet. They've also just told us that they dev office is working on a fix. This new "value" statement could be just to answer those media articles.

Hold on people. We have a mysterious time frame of "about a week" still standing.

However, what we need to be doing is contacting T_Mobile and AT&T more and HTC less. AT&T can tell HTC to release drivers and release them NOW. And they probably will listen.

We need more complaints filed to AT&T and T-Mobile.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jym04:
Actually I think it's pretty much the contrary. HTC tried to chill off everyone with that not-so-official statement. Now everyone is like "it's over" and in time will give up on this. Or at least it's what they hope.

We've been striking them, and they've striked back. Let's keep focusing on this matter, there were much more official answers from HTC saying that they were working on a fix.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Agreed, at&t would be the most useful heavyweight if they side with the customer (us).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tyeo098:
ATnT is our biggest heavyweight?

I can get us a wreckingball or 300$ a day to go tear down the HTC Offices...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DSmithZ28:
Great Work Chainfire!

Posted on TiltSite.com!

http://tiltsite.com/2008/01/htcs-official-response-to-their-video-driver-issue/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Exactly. We should all chill for a week, this is nothing but a PR statement. Now, of course as we're expecting the worst this really does look like it. But it isn't.

Chill everyone!! =))

If you'd be an HTC, how would YOU answer that bad publicity in the media? "Oh ****! We totally screwed up, let us repair it real quick"? Hell no. You'd explain that you don't owe those "s.o.b. good-for-nothing customers anything" and then release a fix and everyone would love you.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Site has been updated. An Updates page, the press release and a few new HTC responses that downright funny have been added.

Side-question: do any of you still see the Digg widget under Firefox? Shows up here on IE, Opera and Safari, but it says "out of order" on Firefox :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ericc191:
Alright then, I thought about it and you guys are right. This isn't over yet. It makes a lot of sense that they just released that to get the media off their backs.

I agree, we should start contacting our service providers. I'll start bugging the hell out of AT&T. :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
HTC has had plenty of time to address the issue. The Kaiser specific petition was launched in Nov. 2007 and over 4000 persons have signed it. The Kaiser debate raged on for quite some time before the petition. If you dig even deeper than that, Mogul owners have been raising the issue for a long time. You still think they will fix it next week?

HTC can pretend they are unaware of Qualcomm based devices having performance problems, but it doesn't change the fact a small percentage of their customers know they do. The iPhone's hype brought along millions of neophyte Pocket PC owners, I wonder how many of them think this poor performance is the norm?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jym04:
It's good that they know all it needs it's a software fix.

Next time someone should warn them that the drivers that are missing. :rolleyes:

About the emails, they should confirm that the infamous reply from HTC was misleading.

[Conspiracy] Maybe DailyTech was hired to help HTC? [/Conspiracy]
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
It works for me under FF.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Imsaffor:
This is me. I'm a computer-savvy guy. but never owned a pocket pc before the tilt. I wasn't aware the severity of the problem beyond videos untill I watched the tomtom video. the standard business user picking one up for the first time would likely find the experience enjoyable.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Week is not a lot, while we wait we can modify our strategy. I just don't want for people to start giving up with all these "I'll never buy HTC again!" statements. I'm pissed as anybody else, but we still have many options open to us.

Whether they release it or not - no one can say for sure. I say we hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. That why I'm talking to 4 driver manufacturing companies right now to see what it would take if HTC ignores us or we get too tired to wait.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
I think I will have some very interesting replies from various parties tomorrow. :)

BTW, keep bugging Qualcomm and AMD too. If we get enough preassure on all these companies soon they wil start to think badly of HTC. (I mean it can't be fun for ATi/AMD and Qualcomm having to answer questions about another company's mistakes all day long. Sooner or later they will complain about it to HTC.)

Sooner or later HTC must realize that releasing a fix is not just showing us goodwill it's actually going to prevent further costs and not to mention damage to their reputation.

We have a LOT of online media coverage on this right now. (And there will be even more soon as atleast one large site that I know of that are working on an in depth article.)

We should try contacting the mainstream media in all our respective countries.

If we keep it basic (ie HTC are screwing their customers and are even lying about the reason as to why they are screwing them) hopefully the mainstream media will find it interesting enough.

It will also bring more preassure on HTC as mainstream media will likely contact their local HTC press representatives.

It's a brute force attack but I'm fairly confident it can be done. :)

(This has all been said and done before, I just want to keep up steam. If we snooze we lose. ;) )
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] the_ape:
Righty oh, just spent the last half hour or so digging up all the press names and contacts for the 4 major UK networks, as they all sell the device, I have asked for a direct response from the network, stating that I appreciate it is not a network provider issue and rather a HTC one, but the devices are branded by the networks so should be helping their customers, I will see what we get back.

Have a message in with an American press friend, and he is going to dig me up the contact details for the AT&T Chaps, who else sell the device in the USA, and what networks besides T-Mobile, Orange, O2 and Voda sell it in Europe.

I'm taking the stance that if I bug enough of the press offices then someone will get an answer back to us.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Shadow7789:
I believe its time to call up the lawyers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Thanks. Probably just Digg shutting my User-Agent + IP out automatically because of the many requests that occur during site development.

Yup, you're the reason HTC gets away with this. Not to bash you, ofcourse, but it's simply that a lot people don't know any better. Press coverage FTW :)

Spot on, UndaC. You've been a real asset through this entire thing (not to say others aren't)

I'm salivating over that big site, btw
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rachidnl:
I'd like to contact Vodafone and T-Mobile in the Netherlands, but I can't do it as per my employer (I'm a journalist) because we aren't running stories on the TyTN II.

But what about Microsoft? Shouldn't we try to get them involved? To me, it seems they get the biggest hit. Whenever my TyTN II shows bad performance in the graphics department, I'm like "F*ck**g Windows Mobile, I hate you!", while Microsoft is not to blame here.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] GSLEON3:
@ jgermuga I think you read to much into my post, whch is completely understandable given the conotation associated with "Hit List". However, the words are just a means of grabbing attention. By no means did I mean to imply that we should be sending anything other than respectful emails. At the same time though, you know as well as I do that the squeaky wheel gets oiled a whole lot faster when it's heard by the right ear.

Email is a vital form of communication these days & my sole point is that when CEO's & VP, etc are forced to deflect questions about products & issues, most times they will do what they can to help resolve them. You see they are truly the only person that can really be pinched between shareholders (Rock) & the consumer (Hard Place).

I know that if my products were underperforming & the result was that my efficiency, valuable time & Personal name was becoming intertwined with these quality issues I would hesitate to spend whatever it took to get me back on track. My time & future proffits are worth much more than deflecting questions & comments about issues. That's just not true with a guy in a call center, there's no motivation for him to care which way things go.

In the mean time I will be focusing some time on getting the addresses for those names earlier posted. Maybe I'll hire a P.I. to dig around for them. When I have them I'll post as such, but to be fair I won't post the dirtect addresses, instead maybe I'll coordinate with you, Chainfire & we can put together an initial list of Senior Members that can send concise & respectful emails. That way should we need to, we can at a later time release the info to all on the board as a next step/last resort.

So far I have hunted down 3 email address for 3 of the earlier named individuals. I will personaly start there & see if the are indeed good & what type of response I get.

Thx.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
I guess all HTC really did by releasing that statement is add fuel to the fire. I hope we can escalate the problem big enough so that it can go into mainstream American media. Something like CNN or MSNBC would ABSOLUTELY destroy HTC.

But that's a long ways away. I believe if we keep working at it, we can eventually force the issue to mainstream media.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Imsaffor:
v.v Glad to be an example. Though I found this page wanting to know how to flash to the official HTC Rom... this was back in october. Press coverage didn't bring me here. :P
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Completenutter2:
Digg widget shows up fine for me in Firefox :)