yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] -IK-:
That's a good idea, but I think there is only a generic reference emulator provided by Microsoft to test code for WM devices.

AFAIK HTC don't make or don't provide emulators for developing software for their devices, but if they did, I'm sure it would be broken some way. I agree though, that it would speed up development as there could be an option to save states.

Another question...

On newer devices that use Direct Draw instead of GAPI, is there a GAPI compatibility layer where use of GAPI function calls are actually handled by Direct Draw?

I ask because I'm wondering if improved Direct Draw will also result in improved running of legacy applications using GAPI :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] -IK-:
Hmmm...Just found this...As I thought MS provide a general emulator.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb158519.aspx
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kapollo:
Well, if there is one then it is as hard to get as the msm7200 reference manual...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rfarnell:
Check this out too! It's a ROM Kitchen for the Windows Mobile Professional 6 emulator.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=411154

No more bricked devices when messing about with the 2D drivers?

Rob
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] djboo:
but surely the emu isnt going to have the hardware we need for the drivers to work?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kapollo:
well generally if you've got a software that emulates hardware then it can be easily (or not necessarily :P ) reversed and turned (in the end) into an IP core that you can simply put to say fpga or turn it into an asic chip again (of course re-branded), sooooo it's not likely that company that invested big stashes of $$ into development of the chip, would give people any means that would allow to steal their design. So I'm afraid no msm7200 chip emulator.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Imsaffor:
Strange Email

I think its based on a post i made at sueeasy awhile back though I'm not certain.

I got an email that appears to be from a law firm asking for more information on my experiences with the tilt, because they are trying to file a class-action lawsuit regarding what appears the be at least the Mogul and the Tilt... Has anyone else gotten an email like this? I asked for more information so I'll let you guys know anything that comes up.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moto2000:
hopefully its a step in the right direction...

I still feel like we've been had...these drivers don't help me (and im guessing you guys) at all in daily usage.

I want to see normal screen rotation, faster response, and normal usage...this is sub par...HTC should at least give currently affected users a generous discount on newer products such as the diamond and touch pro!

come on HTC!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] slovoflud:
not a chance :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mycell:
Ok, just for giggles after I loaded the official AT&T 6.1 rom on my Tilt today, I also reloaded the 3D drivers from this thread. Without any tweaking I could see the text file nice and clear, the triangle test results showed that I was now getting 66FPS which is an increase over what I reported earlier. However as you guys had mentioned also that the new update would only provide software acceleration and not true hardware acceleration all of my DLL test came back as false.

Shortly after that the device became slugish.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jorra:
Ok, so it will be hard to make hardware accelerated 2d drivers. How about software optimized drivers (such as the Omnia 3D drivers). The Omnia 3D drivers run almost as fast as the hardware accelerated CA driver, is it possible to optimize the 2D drivers the same way?

ie steal the 2D from the Omnia?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Those drivers are from cobbled together by herg for his Manila work and are not a new update nor officially part of the HTC-CA drivers.

Btw, a single triangle isn't really a benchmark -- did you try GLBenchmark instead? The HTC-CA drivers work best when you shove at least 9 triangles or more at it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] nogardtilt:
I just loaded the new AT&T Tilt 6.1 from HTC's website yesterday (the official one). I noted a decent performance increase already (was using AT&T's 6.0).

Can anyone confirm if the HTC CA drivers work on the official AT&T 6.1 rom?

And are these un-installable in case I don't want for some reason?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jorra:
I uploaded a video showing the kaiser running the Omnia D3D driver... (If someones interested). It's totally pointless but could be interesting if you haven't tried them yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XISEDmYUDVA
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chaps:
Will acceleration in landscape mode ever be a possibility? Most 3D stuff I try runs in landscape and thus uses software mode. Is the lack of landscape acceleration a HTC 'bug' just as the garbled 3D text is?.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] nenadr:
TouchPro

Will the ROM dump of TouchPro (manufactured in this month) help the driver development (landscape mode especially). Colleague of mine yesterday got his TouchPro, and I should be able get it to dump ROM. If so, can someone PM me with instructions or pointer on how to dump TouchPro ROM.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Imsaffor:
This is the response I got when I replied hoping for some idea on the legitimacy of it.

They did find my listing on Sueeasy, and hopefully it'll be a step in the right direction. As I know more, I'll let you know.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] slovoflud:
:eek: there is a website to help people sue people... maaannnn............
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] grizzley:
Ha Ha.... reply from a mass email I sent to HTC, ATT, Sprint, T-Mobile, QualComm, etc.....

> I wish I could assist but the device you are referencing is not available on the Sprint network. We do offer Touch by HTC but not Tilt. Please let me know if I can be of assistance. Thanks!

I replied to tell her the news. :rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
OK, sorry. I will edit my typo's though I was more focused contacting these guys and making sure that we had some major sites popping up the story.

was just typin toooo fast :p

(and by the way, a click on a link is only a finger away, despite typo's :o)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cushcalc:
My personal phone experience with HTC 2008-01-19 11:20 GMT

After reading in this thread, wanted to do my piece, just made a call to HTC Hotline at:

USAEnglish866-449-83587 days a week24 Hourstoll-free number

I described the issues I was having with viewing online videos, and that I was aware from online forums that many people are having problems - the support guy (who was in Canada but sounded German) - this fellow was very sympathetic, took my device ID and IMEI number, said he will log a report, and that HTC is aware of the problem and working on a solution and his information is that an update may be available next week - told me to check america.htc.com for update to download.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jeroenjohanzwarts@hotmail:
list of htc devices that run Qualcomm's MSM7200

tytn ii

touch dual

touch cruise

s730

P6500 NL
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rachidnl:
Next week? That's the first time some kind of a time span has been given, iirc... Interesting.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Courtesy of pdadb.net

HTC Omni

HTC S420 (HTC Erato)

NTT DoCoMo FOMA HT1100 (HTC Nike)

HTC P6550 (HTC Sedna)

HTC P6500 (HTC Sirius 100)

T-Mobile MDA Touch Plus (HTC Nike 200)

HTC Touch Cruise P3650 (HTC Polaris 100)

HTC S730 (HTC Wings 100)

O2 XDA Star (HTC Nike 100)

HTC Touch Dual P5500 (HTC Nike 100)

HTC TyTN II P4550 (HTC Kaiser 120)

And Qualcomm's MSM7500:

Verizon Touch XV6900 (HTC Vogue)

Verizon SMT5800 / XV5800 (HTC Libra 100)

Verizon XV6800 (HTC Titan 100)

HTC S640 (HTC Iris 100)

HTC Touch P3050 (HTC Vogue 100)

Bell HTC 5800 (HTC Libra 100)

HTC 5800 (HTC Libra 100)

Bell HTC 6800 (HTC Titan 100)

Sprint Mogul PPC-6800 (HTC Titan 100)

HTC S720 (HTC Libra 100)

HTC P4000 (HTC Titan 100)

I've probably missed some.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
This list is on the site (minus the devices that aren't release yet), so I really don't see why you are posting it here :)

BTW interesting about that week timeframe.. I'll be (pleasantly) surprised if it includes _all_ the drivers though.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
Some is better than none, Chainfire. I think HTC knows that we won't be satisfied until we get ALL of our drivers. We'll keep sending our emails and making phone calls until we get all of the drivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] richard.n:
More exposure

http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7030.html

http://www.coolsmartphone.com/news3794.html

:cool::cool:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
Their web page scrolling youtube contest would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] internetadam4657:
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...-angry-mobile-owners-rush-castle-htc-with-bu/

engadget mobile finally picked up our story since they must have gotten so many tips on it, they had to do a short write up. engadget mobile is a great way to get this thing snowballing but lets think even bigger yet! somebody had mentioned sending it to the usa today editorials, any updates on that?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doug2873:
I can almost promise you now that its made engadget mobile we will see a fix in the next 2 weeks.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ahson:
sticky

can this thread be made a sticky? It does seem that this is one of the more important issues concerning kaiser users. just an thought....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tyeo098:
I sent an angry email- HURR!!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
Digg this:

http://digg.com/gadgets/Driver_trouble_makes_angry_mobile_owners_rush_castle_HTC
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ZiYi:
Since Qualcomm had remove the MSN7200 datasheet form their page, I reuploaded the copy I saved in my pc, together with 2 other interesting document about the gaming performance.

http://rapidshare.com/files/85100944/msm7200_chipset.pdf.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/85100491/3dgaming_brochure.pdf.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/85100826/Tech-303_Ligon.pdf.html

note that, in last document Tech-303_Ligon.pdf page 5, the accelerated API field, Direct 3D Mobile and Direct Draw is included!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mrmega:
I just digg'd it :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] GenesysLV:
Another angry letter...

Here is my 2 cents-

Customer Relations

HTC

13920 SE Eastgate Way

Suite 400

Bellevue, WA 98005

To whom it may concern:

I am a developer of a mobile software product for mobile medical imaging. We have been using your hardware since the Wizard platform and were generally pleased with their performance. Recently we moved to the TYTNII platform and have been extremely displeased with the performance of the device.

Video and camera functionality have been completely compromised. Users cannot even take a picture of a patient or type out their notes without experiencing problems. Letters are duplicated when typed on the hardware keyboard and it's nearly impossible to take a clear picture.

We are left apologizing to our customers and recommending they either move back to the Hermes platform or wait for us to come up with a solution. We can definitely be blamed for not field testing the device as thoroughly as possible but this is completely unacceptable.

We are currently considering switching hardware platforms to a different vendor like Eten or Samsung. Customer service is number 1 and for $700 per unit my customers and I feel HTC is taking advantage of us and is no longer in touch with their customers. HTC hasn't even bothered to make a formal response to all their customers. Why is there no solution announced? Is HTC turning its back on their customers?

As of yet there has been no solution given to these well recognized problems (see xda forums or htcclassaction.org) and I am concerned that there never will be. Until a solution is available or HTC takes a more proactive approach to customer service I’m afraid we have no choice but to look for a solution elsewhere.

I would appreciate a response,
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
belvue isnt too far from where i live, i could go visit them if i wanted, lol.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] GenesysLV:
Please do.

Stop by the grocery store and pick them up some eggs;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Imsaffor:
More Possible News

To which I've replied.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Imsaffor:
I just got another response from the guy that has been emailing me. It still seems to sound promising,

I just feel the need to keep you people informed. It sounds like a class-action suit may actually be starting.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] xxx_mosh:
lol wow a lawsuite maybe you guys can win just to show you that how awsome are court system is if i lady can get a couple mill from spilling a hot coffoe on her lap then more power to you fight the system
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] spellshaper:
Thats great news.

I am not residnet of US, Iam from EU, but if I can help somehow just send me a PM.

I am also owner of Touch Cruise not Kaiser, but I think more people involved and complain, the better, isnt it?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pyraxiate:
Wow, wonderful grammar and amazing usage of words coming from someone inside of the U.S.

First of all, had you actually read what the lawsuit was about, you would have seen that all we want is for our devices to perform as they should. We are NOT attempting to make any kind of financial gain.

Secondly,

lawsuite is spelled lawsuit

awsome is spelled awesome

coffoe is spelled coffee

Try using a dictionary.

Stop butchering the English language.

Try only posting something when you have something to add.

Speaking of which, these drivers are working WONDERFULLY using L26 beta 5 throttle launcher edition! :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] megatec45:
If I signed the petition, does that mean that i am a member of the class suit or will there be other papers to file?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] xxx_mosh:
wow dude your 45 picking on a kid move out your moms basement and stop playing wow i really dont think theres a case here not to be a **** but you dont see poeple suing microsoft cus vista sucks yeah i lawyer will say "oh hey yeah i think you gota case" even tho it dosnt make it to the courts they still get paid
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] zwen123:
is it possible that the Kaiser is able to use 2D with hardware acceleration in the future too?

or is it only possible to extract the 3D driver from the other smartphones like the HTC Diamond?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sathya:
Still in a dilemma as to go for this device or not.i am in india..the funniest part is the latest diamond is 26000rs n TYTN2 is 27000rs..I really wonder how...TYTN2 is a jewel without a shine..If at all the driver issue is sorted out..this will be the best Pda..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
Unless you're five years old and foreign and/or dyslexic I don't really see what either his or your age has anything to do with it.

And by the way, Microsoft is getting sued. Both corporations and consumers alike have sued Microsoft because of various "problems" with Vista.

I don't really see your logic anyway, unless you're a HTC employee or stockholder that is.

Are you just supposed to roll over and take it up the a$$ if a company makes a product and aspects of it do not function at all or function poorly and the company in question do nothing to rectify the issues?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pyraxiate:
/Cheers!!!!

Someone stuck up for me :D

Mosh,

If you read public profiles, I am only 26.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] stuff:
A lawsuit would be possible, as long as you know how to handle it.

And I think it's a great idea, or at least attempt to get the performance we need from our devices.

I know the company knows about the driver issue, they just don't give a damn, which is BS.

Especially after saying how much of an amazing device it is. (Which it is)

Anyway the current 3D accelerated drivers work flawlessly. Though that 2D is still lacking, which would just make the device all around perfect
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Imsaffor:
Just to update everyone, I have yet to recieve a response back yet, the last information I knew is that he is supposed to see if there is a court in bakersfield that can handle the case, and I imagine my next contact would be either him saying he's handing it to someone else, or that I would be contacted by the attorney in charge at that point.

Just informing you so you don't think I'm just ignoring it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chiles:
Alright, with a little help I won't have to search this entire thread. That HTC should get sued over this I agree whole heartedly. But, IF we don't win, or it doesn't come to fruition, shouldn't we do something about the 2d performance. In the immortal words of the esteemed and revered Wierd Al Yankovic: "It sucks, and that's no lie. It's about as much fun as watching paint dry." I was at a UK game the other day and I was complaining about the speaker being too loud and someone yelled at me to shut up or do something about it. So dammit I have a dream. A fully functional, non-crippled phone with both 2d and 3d accelleration. Guru's and Semi-Gurus, what must be done to enable 2d accelleration? This is a call to arms. We only have so long before those of us who are stuck with the Kaiser are left in the cold by all of the Gurus who have money move on to bigger and better things. If we could incorporate the other HTC devices with this 2d accelleration then we would have an army capable of delivering said 2d accelleration quickly. Please prove me right. I seriously had a dream about 2d accelleration on my kaiser and it was vivid enough to fuel my fire for this for as long as it takes I dare say. (Unless it's impossible and Nothing is impossible I believe). Please help, masters and apprentices alike. What must be done for 2d accelleration? (in the time it took to write this it is possible I could have googled all of the answers. Answer or flame me if you like please. But do something!)

How many HTC devices are affected by this malady?

Can we buy the 2d accelleration?

Think of all the fun we would have building the drivers!

Monetary compensation for developing drivers?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rajmagi:
it's normal, thats why we call it MISLEADING ACT!!

this is to show that Kaiser-Jewell is OK, top list product which is NOT AT ALL!!

its market strategy and we are the fools ... stupid costumer who would buy kaiser or upgrade to diamond regardless what HTC done in the past (but not me bro,. sorry, one is enough)

lol

Edit: btw I agree if there is a lawsuit, it will increase the POSSIBILITY the driver to be worked due to publicity compare to no lawsuit. Coz if there is a lawsuit kaiser will drop in price and will impact on diamond and less impact to Raphael... well just my humble opinion.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] screwhead89:
Any updates on this?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chiles:
oh yeah, if HTC made a fully functional device, why would we buy new phones every year or so? HTC, bravo for giving us crippled devices that leave us wanting more. Great business tactic. Hmm maybe somebody should sue them...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] szlevi:
Look who's talking...

...apparently for some reason this topic works like a magnet for these half-illiterate monkeys...

Yeah, we hear 'ya', dimwit. :rolleyes:

Let me guess: another uneducated, moronic loser from some little place, in the boonies, felt called out because of his own lack of basic writing skills...? :p:D

OP: good luck with the lawsuit - if you can;t get any help you should get in touch with EFF, even if they can't help you they can tell you where to go for pro bono...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pyraxiate:
Well Szlevi, he claims to be a student. I wonder what subject he is studying at the age of 19. I also am very curious as to what kind of educational establishment he came from if his English skills are so poor. One could only assume that it must be some form of "Special Education". If this is the case, I do sincerely apologize, for you really are handicapped. I dont make it a point to pick on those unfortunate enough to have a serious disability.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] randburke:
BRAVO!! BRAVO!! BRAVO!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] johniemi:
Can I delete the "HTC-CA drivers" folder from my Programs menu after install?

EDIT: Answering myself... I deleted the folder from the Programs menu and looks like everything still works :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] CrArc:
Is it just me or has driver development been slow lately? Gone are the days of regular updates to htcclassaction, and this thread seems to have dissolved into arguments of a sort. What direction are we actually going in?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
I think because it mostly works now, some of us have moved on to making apps that actually use it, unless of course somebody would drop a Toshiba G810 rom which seems to have accelerated 2D drivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] w04g005:
Any news on the Toshiba G810 rom dump? Polaris section is also interested in 2d drivers!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] peto01:
it seems that august 19, 2008 will stay inthe page forever :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dtag:
First of all mad props to all those who contributed to the develoment of the 3d drivers, you guys rock. I'm just saddened that in retrospect it seems that once the development of the drivers got rolling, there was less and less pressure on HTC about the issue...I remember when HTCClassaction.org began, it had a more tougher stance by putting the proverbial "ball" in HTC's court, HTC began to issue regular press releases about releasing the drivers. When the project by the community started, it's like HTC got a sigh of relief, because we as a community made their problems ours. And through the efforts of some, they were able to pull off something short of a miracle, a homebrew direct 3d driver, which is really great but not without some flaws. HTC is probably thinking that HTC-CA "knows how to to point the gun, but not pull the trigger" and another freak-up from HTC being brushed under the rug of obscurity.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] peto01:
everybody has raphael now
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moto2000:
were still not giving up on the 2D drivers!

with that, Kaiser is pwnage. not everyone has the extra cash to buy a new device!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] butterfly22:
On this moment many people work hard to get the 3D drivers working on the Touch Cruise, but unfortunately they still can not get it all working (see http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=426314&page=52). Is there someone who can help us with this project to include the drivers to work for the Touch Cruise?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
I know this is a silly question but what exactly can we do with the 3D drivers? what is faster? which games work better?

I finally upgraded from Dutty's 4/29 to hyper dragon III (september 17th rom). it's awesome!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Shinare:
Now that Manilia2D looks so great on the tilts, I kinda wish they had gotten the 2D drivers working before the 3D. Would be nice to be able to watch a youtube video without screen tearing and stuttering. I don't have any use for the 3D drivers that were "developed".
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Gluzko:
nub question and been trying to search for it...

does this mean that the manilla/touchflo2d has the developed 2d drivers that were missing on the kaisers?

Thanks
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hambola:
no they're not included.