yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
You should probably take on a few team members to help you keep the site updated. I hate to see you put in so much effort for an entire community, when you could very easily use that same community.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
Chainfire is a technical person. Watch this excellent parody of Microsoft redesigning the iPod packaging and you will understand. I'm used to KISSing tech material and where others see information overload, I recognize and appreciate Chainfire's thorough approach. If I can unbog myself from contractual obligations, I'll see if I can give it a masses-friendly layout.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] nicholasendean:
Chainfire.

Thank you so very much for all the hard work and effort you are putting in to the site.HTCClassAction is most certainly making waves from what I am reading.I have just been trawling link after link along with watching a ton of YouTube 'Evidence' videos showing the jurky slowness which is now so damn evident in our soiled out the box hardware model.

I cannot see HTC leave this to the history books of "Crimes against the Consumers that were left unsolved"

Am confident that a driver or at least more likely "OS_Fix" will shortly be released. Too many people are now well informed about this issue and if only half of the comments placed around various sites are to be taken seriously (about how people feel on learning how HTC treat its customers) then HTC would be mighty foolish to leave this with a simple pathetic writen reply.

I HATE MY KAISER. I used to love it, but now I want to use it to its supposed purposes and I can't.

1.It will NOT play video content on any level properly

2.using gps software is laughable at best.Too jerky and too unreliable as my unit has been known to reset if I touch the screen during driving with instruction live.

3.Telephone Call clarity is awful as is the video calling quailty.

4.The slide action has quickly become loose like so many BLue Angel type "top-over-bottom" to piece units do.

Keep up the fantastic work mate.All of us owners deserve this problem to be rectified. I am amoung a load of United Kingdom owners who also are fed up. The problem is 100% world wide no matter what version.

I digress.

Nick
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Well whatever happens, tomorrow there will be an update, KISSed or modified original, whatever. Even if the latter I will still have to modify the site a bit to remove the very detailed info, as I have been advised by some legal folks (to cover my own ass, tbh)

The latest HTC reply needs a response, CorePlayer needs some focus, the quest for a New Yorker must be televised, etc.

We also may now have a point man for US lawsuit. Stay tuned.

borealcool lol... and thanks ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hello77:
I would like to see this for purpose of chainfire to review/accept/reject changes you propose; but we all have other obligations; question: can you suggest changes to chainfire or are you left with other obligations; as need is now; but even if given down the road, still might be helpful; main point is if you are going to help?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
I am very angry about this situation. I regret buying my HTC Mogul. I see lots of people here saying they'll dissuade their friends and family from buying HTC in the future. I'm doing the same thing -- told a co-worker just today! However, there's another way to have an impact.

Did you know that ~80% (edit: almost two-thirds, not 80%) of consumers read product reviews before making a major purchase? (edit: read more here: http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/press_release/0,1014,sid=2283&cid=173666,00.html)

I just went to Amazon's website, and was surprised to still find fairly high reviews of the latest HTC phones -- particularly in light of the current situation. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/103-5338113-6771028?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=htc

Consumers should be warned about the poor performance of these phones. I wish *I* had been warned. So, I just wrote up and submitted a brief review of the Mogul. It took me about 15 minutes. I gave it 1 star, which immediately dropped the cumulative rating from 4 stars to 3. I think other potential buyers should know about the problems with these phones. Maybe buy another brand, or at least wait (as even HTC seems to suggest), until the next generation of devices that actually handles onscreen rendering correctly.

Manufacturers such as HTC recognize the value of highly-rated consumer reviews, particularly on sites like Amazon and Epinions. If you want to have an impact fast, submit a fair review of how YOU feel about the HTC product you own. This is one of the best ways to communicate with other potential buyers about your product (dis)satifaction. If my review discourages, say, 50 people from buying HTC, and your review discourages 50 more, HTC will feel an IMMEDIATE impact on their bottom line. They simply can't afford that kind of publicity. They cannot afford to have their hard-earned reputation destroyed overnight, but that's what might happen if they aren't willing to protect that reputation and serve the customers that gave them that rep. The only way for HTC to combat negative reviews is to improve the product to the point that customers are satisfied and post positive reviews again.

Negative reviews have another impact: Current customers who aren't reading techy sites, but see reviews after their purchase, realize that "Hey, that's right, my device IS slow and unresponsive." They tell their friends, write their own reviews.

I suggest you take a few minutes to write a product review. But DO NOT put a lame, poorly-written review out there -- that will not help our cause. Be mature. Be thorough and be honest. That's fair, and it will have a direct impact on our situation.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] regisiskingabby:
Thank you Chainfire for your efforts

Chainfire,

I am constantly lurking on these pages every evening after work, and because of your efforts, I have become an informed Kaiser Owner. Even though I do not fully understand or pretend to know the intricacies of drivers and coding, I do understand that my Kaiser does not match up to the performance that I would have expected coming out of the box. Because of my lack of knowledge of the technicalities in this case, I use your efforts as my voice. I thank you for your hard work and dedication, and please know that there are more people behind your efforts than you realize. Once again, thank you!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] storino03:
So these drivers for the Kaiser, would they be compatible with all other Qualcomm-esque CPUs made by HTC?

--James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] captainsensible2002:
Apologies if wrong place to ask but my partner has just got a HTC S730 (Wings) and its camera 'useability' is MILES ahead of the Tytn II - decent screen refresh and frame rate and quick to take pictures. This device uses the same chipset so why is it so much better? Haven't looked at any video on it yet and obviously cannot test touch screen. IE scrolling seems pretty good though ?!?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] White_Hair:
Thanks Chainfire!! I really appreciated your hardwork

I just got my Tytn II last week. Due to not enough research, I ended up regretting my stupid decision. I don't blame anyone but my stupidity. However, no matter what, I am glad that people like you stand up and tell the manufacture how we feel in actions and let our voices to be heard. I really appreciate what you have done. Thank you very much. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Got a report from another support guy who says the statement is really weird, as a patch is most definitely coming. Weird.

captainsensible That is weird... I'll see if I can find a Wings ROM to play around with.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rachidnl:
Have you also tried this in dim light conditions? That's especially the condition where the TyTN II does an extremely bad job.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] nsa666:
Something interesting: http://www.digitimes.com/telecom/a20080129PD208.html
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rachidnl:
Certainly strange. You'd expect HTC to announce such a thing to show us that they're ready and capable to fix their shortcomings, since that would make us very happy.

So I think there are four possibilities:

The HTC Communications Department misunderstood the problems we are experiencing, and thus reports there will be no patch for our problems. They might be aware of a patch being worked on, but they simply think it serves another goal.

HTC for whatever reason wants a silent launch of the patch or probably wants to integrate it with a forthcoming update to Windows Mobile 6.1. That would at least make Microsoft look good since people will think that the OS update improves performance, while it actually was the 'hidden' patch.

There indeed is a patch coming, but it won't affect graphical performance at all and/or it is not a driver to enable ATI Imageon technology. Perhaps it's a patch for bluetooth or speaker issues and the support guy got confused.

The support guy based his response on incomplete, inaccurate or obsolete information and patch development has been terminated or was never started in the first place.

I think it's either point two or three.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chookz:
I am a fan of Windows Mobile not HTC and would switch asap as soon as a comparable device comes
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
You forgot the oh so important fifth alternative:

5. The support guy lied just to get an annoying customer off his back.

;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
You don't think this has anything to do with it do you? The MSM7200 is classed as their WCDMA/HSDPA main device. Timing is a bit coincidental...:confused:

The order imposes an immediate injunction on WCDMA products for the U.S. market that were found to infringe the '686 video encoding patent. Qualcomm today announced the availability of new chips that have already been sampled to customers and it expects to have hardware and software work-arounds to the '686 patent commercially available in handsets before the end of the first calendar quarter of 2008.

Similar stuff seems to be happening in the EU courts regarding Qualcomm.

Found here...

http://www.qualcomm.com/press/releases/2008/080102_injunction.html
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cornellfOo:
My vote would be for #3. The tech guy probably got the WM6.1 (or whatever) patch mixed up with the driver issue.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
The link talks about CDMA, which only affects the MSM7xxx products in part. By reading this, it appears the GSM devices do not infringe? But I guess according to HTC's rules, just because they are not mentioned doesn't mean they aren't affected. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
The site (old site) has been updated with new information. Some stuff has been removed and/or reworded for legal reasons.

Any comments on the response to their latest official statement?

Also, I have had a lot of new press links coming at me the past week, please send those again, as I seem to have misplaced a fair number of them.

http://www.htcclassaction.org/updates.php
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] donatom3:
Yeah that's the smartphone market or standard. If you look at the story on engadget from today, they also say that HTC still has 50% of the WinMo Professional aka Touchscreen market.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] spellshaper:
Even if this case will have some ipmact on HTC share or sales (I doubt that), it will be known after half year or so. So nothing what we can see now.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
HTC hasn't been doing too well. The Mogul ROM update that was scheduled to be released on the 28th (yesterday) never happened, and thinking back, this could be the ROM update that some customer service reps were telling us Kaiser users about, since there was one user who got a January 28th ROM update answer.

HTC, please, shape the hell up.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Exil3d:
Hey.... I didnt know where to put this but I ran into this video of a Mogul having similar issues with Drivers. Here is the link.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yv2zVRW7Y0
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
Great video. That's how poorly my Mogul runs, too.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] unwired4:
I think some of you need to think about what you are posting on here.

If you are hoping that HTC play ball with you, then posting rants and unsubstantiated rubbish isnt going to help bring them to the table at all...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
Chainfire,

Is this 29 January correct? It seems not chronological..

http://www.htcclassaction.org/responses.php

"... New responses from January 29, 2008

"Patch definitely coming"

Even after their second official statement, HTC support keeps telling us a patch is definitely coming soon. Apparently, HTC's R&D department in Taiwan is still working on it. ....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
Chainfire,

Thanks for updating the HTCClassAction.org site. Looks great. Can I offer another suggestion to be added to the "What you can do" page? See this post: http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1861963&postcount=865.

For device owners, I recommend you write a review of your HTC product on sites like Amazon or Epinion. (What are some other good review sites?) This gets the message out to people who don't read tech sites like this one, in a way that is honest and not underhanded. Also, if you see other reviews that you agree with, mark them as "helpful" so as to increase the chance that they'll be seen by others.

Finally, contact HTC to let them know that you're dissatisfied, and are submitting reviews to that effect. HTC should be aware of the full impact of their inaction.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Yup, that response is from today.

Good point.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Exil3d:
Yes... good idea on that thought. I will write up a review and mention the issues.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
Chainfire, he means to ask why the January 29th response is at the top of the page, when chronologically, it should be at the bottom.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] PhilipL:
Hi

Yes a good example that compares how badly performing the Qualcomm MS7xxx based HTC is running at 400MHz compared to an HTC Elf (I assume that is what it is) with a processor running at 201MHz.

The TI OMAP 850 contains a 2D Graphic's accelerator that we must assume has been turned on and is being used fully due to the inclusion of proper driver support. This seems to contradict their statement of "HTC does not offer dedicated or optimized multimedia devices", as it seems they have optimised previous devices to use the full range of features the chip in use has.

It seems to me HTC is using the extra 200Mhz horse power of the Qualcomm to render graphics rather than pay and include the correct drivers to enable hardware acceleration. This means our HTC Qualcomm devices are performing worse in some cases (if not all) to prior models due to the graphics rendering taking away processor cycles. Not only is screen repainting slow, adding to a perception of slowness, but the processor power is also reduced for running applications, adding even more to the sluggish performance of a chip that should be doing very much better and meeting the expectations generated by the Qualcomm specifications for it.

HTC may also have taken this decision quite deliberately. If they have invested a lot in R&D to use the Qualcomm chips and are planning to stick with them for future models, then how do they make future models better performing? One way is to not fully enable graphics acceleration on the first wave of devices, giving the newer models that follow a false performance advantage. HTC already elude to this by telling us this is indeed their plans as future devices will enable the hardware acceleration of the chips.

Of course this sort of thing goes on all the time, for example Intel chips often come of the production line and are clocked slower to create a range of processors at different price breaks. When yields are good those slower chips are perfectly able to run at higher speeds. However the big difference is the customer knows what speed the chip is guaranteed to run at, a guaranteed minimum speed, there is no hiding behind big numbers or half truths to sell those slower performance chips. HTC have used the fullest feature spec of the Qualcomm chip to sell their current range of devices that don't have those features without bringing this to anyone's attention. They have now got their hands well and truly burnt thanks to the Internet and dedication of people around here.

Regards

Phil
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] briggs81:
I do believe Phil just owned HTC with that post.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] CrysDark:
I don't understand, if core can write a program that utlizes QTV why can't we?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
Cause apart from Chainfire, nobody is willing or tried! QTV is only for HW video transcoding for playback, it still has no impact on D3D for games/GPS map drawing and a load of other things this chip could be doing leaving the main processor free to answer my babes phone call!! :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Excellent post. I may put this on the site somewhere.

It's not at the top, it two posts from the bottom, only followed by the official statements. If you all think that is too confusing, I will change the order though.

Just a note, though the above is correct, I haven't tried using QTV myself.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ponicg:
Chainfire, has anyone attempted to contact the WinMo team + Qualcomm + HTC and see if we can get permission to write an open-source driver? I'd be willing to spearhead this project, as I have a few contacts within the WinMo team, as well as development and design experience.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
AFAIK all three have been contacted. No response from WinMo (I think), no official response from Qualcomm. They haven't been contacted together for that purpose though.

You have my blessing though, if you want to do that.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ponicg:
Will do then. You seem like the unofficial leader of this here rebellion... :-p J/k. You do seem like you're the organizer of these actions to get our phones in order, so I wanted to defer to your opinion first. Besides this forum, is there any other way to reach you? I guess just PM me the answer?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
You could always mail info@htcclassaction.org and see where that goes ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] manaaa:
this confused me too.

another german press release on one of germans biggest information platforms for win mob:

http://www.insidepda.de/blog/pda-so...ction-treiber-fuer-den-qualcomm-msm7200-chip/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Ok I changed it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
I was hunting around for some statisticws on how often drivers are included with retail computers, as I think this is the key point from a legal standpoint (for the US anyways). I found a lot of info from the linux community about developing open source drivers and as you can imagine, they have been at this for quite while. So if someone could get a hold of the right specs, I am sure there are poeple out there who have some experience with this type of thing. I also tried contacting the IEEE to see if thay collected any stats. Anyone else have ideas on where we might be able to find answers on this?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
I've never heard of Windows based desktop that didn't came with the right drivers :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
Nope, mean either. . . Lets give htc a week and if they don't do anything or give us anything then we sue sue sue like Peggy Sue.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Qualcomm is already doing this. At the last CES trade show, they were showing off their current chips as their next-gen "Snapdragon". What was the difference? Probably actual Q3Dimension and QTV drivers running instead of software-render.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] CrysDark:
If that is true, then there should be hope for us in the future, provided there is not some lock on the hardware.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
Me either, but having data to support this from the formost engineering society would be an ace in our hand.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
Good News, I got their #

HTC America, Inc.

13920 SE Eastgate Way

Suite 400

Bellevue, WA 98005

Tel:+14258619174

Fax:+14258611715

I called them but the receptionist wasn't available. . . figures. I am gonna try to get to the head of HTC America and have a talk with him. We all need to da that. If anyone has his/her extension # please post it then everyone call.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
Okay, I've submitted reviews to Amazon and Epinion, and emailed HTC support to let them know. Please do this too if you haven't already. It's an easy way to spread the word and make an impact.

- http://www.amazon.com/review/produc..._pr_hist_1?_encoding=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar

- http://www.epinions.com/HTC_PPC_6800

Separate note, I just received a response from Sprint support:

Thank you for sharing your concern with Sprint. I understand your concern regarding the
handset , and will be pleased to resolve it.

At the outset, I would like to apologize for the inconvenience that may have caused to you.

I request you to visit at our nearest Sprint service centre those people will definitely
resolve the issue . You can also contact them on the numbers mentioned below:-

877-345-7895
Monday - Friday: 5:00 AM - 2:00 AM
Saturday: 5:00 AM - 12:30 AM
Sunday: 5:00 AM - 2:00 AM

Please let us know if you have any further questions. Thank you.

Maxwel C.
E-Care
Sprint

I'm not sure what to make of this. Is there any way that Sprint stores have received some sort of hotfix/upgrade but HTC hasn't said something about it?? I think it's more likely that Sprint Support didn't understand my complaint, and the in-store sales reps are going to give me a "how to use your phone" tutorial or something. Anyone live near a Sprint store to investigate this?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
They probably didn't understand it. Send them another message and clarify it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tsadek:
I just posted this review on amazon.co.uk. I encourage all UK based owners to do the same.

1 Star review:

1) Drops calls

2) Bluetooth functions poorly

3) Speakerphone functions poorly

4) VIDEO DRIVERS NOT INCLUDED.

To clarify a video driver is responsible for EVERYTHING that appears on screen. Effectively the phone has to work 10 times as hard to software render ALL that you see on the screen.

This phone is SLOWER than a 3 year old IPAQ.

DO NOT BUY. Save your cash.

For further info: www.htcclassaction.org

Keep up the good work chainfire!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
wtf that's exactly the top video in the list :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ach2:
As Tito says, send them another email to clarify. But make sure you ask them if their service technician is resolving the issues listed on the HTCclassaction.org website. Also ask them if their techs are resolving the issue which HTC have specifically stated they will not be resolving without an upgrade to the next generation phone.

Who knows - you might be presented with a TyTN III :D:D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
He has the mogul. The TyTN Series has been GSM.

Also chainfire, I called tech support and he said hopefully that they will come out with a fix but he isn't sure. He said if they think its a problem then they will fix it. . . . So the tech people don't know. . . .

Here is the USA Tech support #:

(866)449-8358