yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] JoeTheFro:
With Qualcomm buying the handheld part of AMD/ATI... I actually hope they use it to push out updated drivers. to new and possibly existing phones. Or they can be greedy, horde it all and let it go down with the ship.

I only say this since there have been images of the HTC 2009 product lineup and rumors of them switching to the nVidia chip...

If HTC bails on Qualcomm because of all our complaining, that might scare the hell outta them into buying up ATI to avoid an ATI - Qualcomm Licensing, and just let them do it inhouse and provide chips and drivers direct to HTC etc..

I may be wayyyyy off point with my lack of facts, but thats my guess...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
As you mentioned in your first (unquoted) sentence the relevant part of AMD (no longer ATI) is now part of Qualcomm so that would mean HTC buying part of Qualcomm... If HTC isn't happy with the current chipset supply arrangement, why wouldn't they change suppliers and leave Qualcomm out in the cold?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
So further details...

http://translate.google.com/transla...omeen/20091642/66&sl=fi&tl=en&history_state0=

http://news.google.com/news?ned=us&hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1295189485

Basically the godly Finnish guys formerly known as BitBoys are now shoveled onward to Qualcomm-land (about 50 of them). Their future purpose is UIs instead of games. Their superchip Glaze3D aka Axe aka Acceleon aka Gxx is what became the Imageon (and Radeon?).

To think this is where Future Crew ended up ... God help those that stayed on.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] twolf:
Hi, posted this here:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=441099

...but it also made sence to be in this topic, to help with the nike drivers.

Thanks for your great work. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] drutort:
So what does this all boil down to for the kaiser community? Is all of this for the worse? Also are you guys making some progress?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
I cant see why it need be for the worse. Especially with Windows Mobile 6.5 coming along soon why doesn't Qualcomm do what other chipset providers in the mainstream PC world do and provide a full set of (MSM 7xxx) drivers to Microsoft for incorporation into this new OS? They shouldn't wait an eternity until WM 7 eventually comes along.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mandali09:
Hi all

Does anyone know where i can find the Qualcomm MSM72xx chipset Architecture document, and developer manuals?

Thanks

Mandali
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] euklid:
hey I have at&t with official at&t Tilt WM 6.1 rom..can i install these updated kaiser drivers or no?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ajclai08:
i'd ask google
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Yes, as it should be stated on the htcclassaction.org site. Always fully tested against stock-roms.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rfarnell:
Graphics and Architecture

Service Manual

English Manual

Any good?

Rob
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] p3ngwin:
wow!

i loved those guys on the Amiga.....and i followed BitBoys Oi for all time waiting for their vapourware, never knowing it was them. so they're going to Qualcomm?? how they've changed....

now bitboys can join the "snapdragon" vapourware and have a party :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DSF:
The first one I've seen some time ago (I think from one of NuShrike's topics).

People.. we have to do something.

I've extracted some lines from different sources and posted here:

Qualcomm - numbers, promises and lies

We need to spread this.. it's very frustrating when a company misleads in such way.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dpwFalken:
See post 365 and you'll see that the suspicion is that HTC did not buy drivers from Qualcomm, they just paid for the chipset, hence the stock drivers. Its worth reading the thread as it explains why Qualcomm cant give out drivers for the TytnII.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=339745&page=37
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] audiobastard:
original video driver cab

I know i saw somewhere the original video drivers for the tilt. I downloaded the latest drivers from htcclassaction and they ran fine, until i tried using Inav. The damn frames wouldn't update but like every 15 seconds. I didn't have that problem before the drivers (but i did do htc wm6.1 update). Damn, now I can't use my sweet, sweet gps. Anyone know where that original drivers cab is? I tried reinstalling the updated wm6.1 rom and the problem is still there. I don't know if that overrode the new drivers or not. And yes, I did use the search feature, wiki, et al.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tron786:
Still Oct 9.....the end is nigh....

Will there ever be 2D drivers for the Kaiser......:(

Chainfire pleez make us happy soon....some of us cant afford new phones
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tonywalker:
Well, probably I am talking a bullsh:t, I am not a programmer and my english is bad, but...

I was trying Android for Kaiser, and it is very fast!

There is an OpenGL test on the own ROM and some drawing tests too.

I was impressed!

The drawing tests arrive to 40FPS and performance doesn't fall when the screen is touched like when in the Windows Mobile.

How does this video driver work in Android for Kaiser? Maybe this video driver for Android (a Linux in fact) help in the creation of better drivers for Windows Mobile?

Its just an idea... :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] TITAN-23:
Here is a job advertised by Qualcomm

http://www.iitjobs.com/candidates/ShowJobDetails.aspx?jid=86623

Title: Graphics Software Engineer/3D graphics /Linux-Hyderabad

Posted On: 3/16/2008 7:43:22 AM

Designation: Graphics Software Engineer

No. of vacancies: 1

Qualifications: Bachelor's/Master's degree in Computer Science

Essential Skills:

Skills	Specialization	Years

Linux	-	2

3D graphics	-	2

WinMobile	-	2

Minimum Total Experience: 2

Job Tenure: No Preference/Any

Salary Offered:

Job Location: Hyderabad Andhra Pradesh India

Job Description

Job Description

Position involves developing embedded software graphics drivers to support 2D, 3D and vector graphics, including OpenGL ES, OpenVG, D3D, SVG and 2D graphics API's with hardware acceleration in CDMA, UMTS, and GSM handsets.

Candidates must be proficient in C and have experience with embedded software in a commercial real time operating system (ARM family is a plus).

Hardware and software debugging skills are useful

Skills/Experience

College graduate in a technical discipline with coursework in Operating Systems, Data Structures, Computer Architectures, Computer Graphics, Compiler, and familiarity with the C programming language with 2 to 5 years of industry embedded programming experience

Additional Skills

Hardware knowledge, ability to read schematics, and debug SW to HW interfaces.

Low-level device driver experience a plus. Experience with logic analyzers, oscilloscopes, JTAG and ICE debuggers are helpful.

Experience in 2D or 3D graphics driver, especially in OpenGL, Vertex/Pixel Shader, Shader Compiler, or SVG development is a plus. Experience in different operating system, such as WinMobile, Linux and Brew, is helpful

Education Requirements:-

Bachelor's/Master's degree in Computer Science. Computer Engineering/Electrical Engineering or equivalent degree programs are acceptable.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] TITAN-23:
Another job in India

INDIA

Naukri.com - Oct 14 2008 02:02

Location: Hyderabad

Experience: 2 - 5 years experience

Company: QUALCOMM India Private Limited (View Details)

Position involves developing embedded software graphics drivers to support 2D, 3D and vector graphics, including OpenGL ES, OpenVG, D3D, SVG and 2D graphics APIs with hardware acceleration in CDMA, UMTS, and GSM handsets. Candidates must be proficient in C and have experience with embedded software in a commercial real time operating system (ARM f.....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
* applies *

:D nice find.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] p3ngwin:
why do you need a new phone?

it's really not cool to give guilty torture to someone just because you want something you don't even "need".

help if you can, support in any way even if it's moral support. but saying you're going to be unhappy if he doesn't fulfill your needs is not going to make him happy to help you.

you will appear to be a leeching person who only wants to gratify themselves, people like THAT are not the sort people like HIM want to help.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tron786:
Strange reply this....

Because the Kaiser is frustratingly slow, camera is crap etc...

Who am I torturing? How do u know what my "needs" are?

Who said I am "unhappy"? I am positive about everyones efforts in this forum....I am merely expressing a desire for help here esp since there have been no updates on htcclassaction.org

This expression for help should actually provide encouragement for the guys to keep going! It will make people like chainfire feel acknowledged & wanted.

Why do u label me a "leech" based on one simple post.....does asking for help make u a leech?? I thought this forum was to help others

You obviously have some deep emotional issues to attack me like this for no good reason!:mad:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Metallic-Force:
Moving on to something useful........

What is HTCClassAction looking for? I'm pretty sure this question should be "Who" is ...

I can probably help, I know I am new here, but damn it I had Tilt and Touch Pro with extremly disappointed outcomes.

Has anyone thought that these Qualcomm processors are actually performing as intended? I mean, you can only optomise so much in the phone until you hit the fact that these devices are simply "incapable" to perform decent 2D/3D frame rates.

No explanation from HTC have been made since last year (Feb 2008 I think) so clearly it's not because of lack of drivers, it's lack of processing power. Why would HTC even bother with a 64mb video memory if they knew it won't be taken advantage off since they apprently decided not to pay for the drivers?

I say wake up people, it's not a drivers issue, it is just a performance within the hardware itself.

Am I making sense?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
HTCCA itself isnt looking for anything, and its hardly worth inputting any more time into the project anymore as it's quickly becoming irrelevant. The older models with this issue are already discontinued.

Yes, we know the MSM7K chipsets are performing horribly compared to their specs. And yes, if you pull everything out of the closet, they have the potential to be quite snappy indeed. You will however always keep the problems of not implemented functionality (like hardware floating point calculus, which does make a hell of a difference in multimedia apps), optimized graphics 2D drivers (can make a hell of a difference in daily use), etc.

Will MSM7K ever be 'the shizzle' ? No it will not. Is it's average current use in Windows Mobile devices below it's potential ? Definitely. Did HTC lie and knowingly misinform the public about how things would perform ? Most certainly.

It's both a hardware and a software issue. The hardware is not 'award winning' (well literally perhaps they did win some awards), but it can be quite good. But the software is lacking in a way pure hardware cannot make up for.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Metallic-Force:
Well thanks for the reply, damn it I really thought I left Tilt for good... but now I'm having the same pathetic problems as before...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] TITAN-23:
Microsoft

Insteed of complaining to HTC or Qualcomm we should be complaining to Microsoft. Microsoft has been losing smartphone market share over the last 2 years. If they are made aware that their hardware partners (HTC) are making Windows Mobile devices appear more sluggish than normal, MS might put pressure on HTC to fix the driver ploblem.

I do not think I will buy another Windows Mobile after owning the Kaiser. I am sick of the slow response of the touchscreen and the slow 2d. I do not trust the platform because of this 2d/3d driver problem.

MS should certify and test all drivers for their devices so that Windows Mobile can compete as a reliable brandname in the marketplace.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] p3ngwin:
you said it yourself below....

your below statement says otherwise. being "frustrated" means unhappy, not usually associated with optimism an happiness.

your initial "expression" was nothing of the sort. you stated you were unhappy, complained about your device's performance and pleaded for him to "MAKE" you happy. how did you offer to help ?

you call that encouragement?

he would feel acknowledged alright, just like LEO felt acknowledged by all the users complaining that their devices weren't working and asking him to "fix it" because their devices were buggy and crap.....

that sort of "encouragement" made him quit

and we lost a good cook because of such selfishness.

this is why i gave you a friendly warning.

not a label, nothing permanent. simply letting you know about your behavior, the moderators are here for the same reason and we ALL help each other keep on track. you may have believed you were "asking for help", but that's exactly what dozens of other people thought they were doing and later found themselves to be the reason for LEO quitting.

how does you begging for Chainfire to "...make us happy..." equate to you helping others...or do you only consider helping yourself?

not an attack, some friendly feedback to help you improve so you can be less of a burden and more helpful, that's how we help people here. we let them know when they may step out of line for one reason or another. it's called helping you behave better so we can all benefit before that behavior costs us another good cook. we need more people like Chainfire and Leo, not more people begging for happiness because they are frustrated with their device.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tron786:
So how exactly do I help and what behavior do I need to "improve" on?

(I feel like a schoolkid being scolded by the teacher)

I can admit that I have no real technical expertise to contribute to software/hardware engineering but I thought the whole idea of a forum is to share experiences & get advice from others with a similar problem.

I also can admit joined this forum to look for help to improve my device .....Is that against the rules???.....so I guess this will have define me as a "leech" then?

I dont think i have offended anyone & therefore really feel that u have "reprimanded" me unnecessarily.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dancj:
I think you're being a bit harsh on tron786. It's not like he's blaming Chainfire for the lack of drivers or anything.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] p3ngwin:
never said he was.

tron786 was behaving as though Chainfire was responsible for is happiness and devices condition. which Chainfire is not.

i'm simply helping him be a better forum member from his realization that begging for help and complaining about his device are not the best way to go. that kind of behavior has already cost us a cook (albeit temporarily), and before anymore of the same happens it's better to help each other be better people so we can all benefit.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dancj:
Not really. He was acting as though Chainfire might be able to solve one particular problem.

If it was posts as tame as tron786's that made a cook quit temporarily then that's really the cook's problem.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] p3ngwin:
imagine having a few dozen, or even a hundred of those type of posts, then see how your patience and generosity hold out.

just because you think it's tame, doesn't mean Leo or anyone else does. if you want help from someone, be nice to them even if it means compromising some of your lesser priority beliefs. if you want the help you'll invest that effort, or if you value being yourself 100% so much.... you won't get anything from anyone else that is different.

EDIT:

you may think that's really the cook's problem, but when the cook quits it becomes

OUR

problem. perhaps you understand why it's best we don't cause the effect in the 1st place ?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kcrumbley:
I think you should just let chainfire speak for himself and stop flaming someone because of what YOU think is going through his mind. If he feels offended by tron's comments, let him say so.

You are being very hard on someone who just asked for help and then expressed frustration with his device (not with anyone on this forum)!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] p3ngwin:
you are welcome to your thoughts, while telling me what you think i am.....

i'm welcome to my thoughts too :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] exoduzy2k:
hey, that problem is WinMo 6.1 issue. Everyone has that problem. That's why we use gpsgate to fix the problem..

Here's the link:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=330634
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] audiobastard:
my friend thank you

I'm going to try gps gate. Thanks alot. Honestly, I tried finding a fix and couldn't find anything; much appreciated. I'll let you know if it works. My eyes are tired and its 1:30 in the morning.... time for some flashaction.:o
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] audiobastard:
egh, spoke too soon

So, after reading hte posts, doesn't really seem like anyone knows or actually uses gpsgate. Further, what 15 bucks for it; uhm no. I'm not going to pay to make something work that's supposed work anyways (seems to be the story around htc products lately). Google maps works just fine, its just the inav problem and apparently, i'm not the only one. Perhaps gpsgate is the solution and yes... i figured out since my post that it was the wm6.1 that was the problem. Either way, no reason to cough up 15 bucks when I can just stick with 6.0. I can't believe there's no free fix or patch for this.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tron786:
That's true.....thanks dancj for seeing where i was coming from.

I certainly did not mean to offend or anger anyone....least of all Chainfire....I would never want him to quit now.

I was just expressing my frustration

If chainfire felt offended, then I sincerely apologise to him.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] audiobastard:
This is the gps fix; sorry for spamming

This is the fix; not gpsgate unless merged into this cab somehow. It works. Thanks for trying to help though. I'm not posting anymore about this here; but thanks guys.

Gps fix cab
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tron786:
HTCclassaction.org

Hi

Is HTCclassaction.org now officially "suspended":confused:

I hope P3ngwen will not "blame" me for this!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Prema:
Someone found a way to speed up the Kaiser a lot in 2D applications.

I request everyone to at least take look at this:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=509704
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] scilor:
Im still waiting for a nice 2D Speedup driver :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ajclai08:
Kaiser under android now supports hardware rendering
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Prema:
Something is going on on the driver front:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=496528

Openvg support...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Exfumao:
Nice...

:)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] forcedalias:
They probably won't as it would look like xda-devs is endorsing legal action, given the threatening name of our site. Either that or there are just too damn many sticky threads now!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] muuu:
Hi. I Just found a new(At least to me) app: 3D Benchmark 1.0b. Found at www.dynamixsoft.com

It can be used as an easy way to show the touch screen slowdown.

It has an FPS counter, so its easy to see the slowdown.

Since i really cant make a proper youtube video of it, I was thinking someone hire was willing to instead.

Btw. Sorry for the bad english ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] grizzley:
39.95 was my average.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] muuu:
What phone do you have and did you try to touch the screen?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] grizzley:
I have an ATT Tilt.

39.95 was not touching the screen.

I just did another test and touched teh screen alot....

Average: 32.26

MIN FPS: 7

MAX FPS: 76

ANOTHER test, with NOT touching the screen:

Average: 39.50

MIN: 12

MAX: 79

Another test not touching the screen but this time UNPLUGGED from ActiveSync:

Average: 71.88

MIN: 37

MAX: 85

Another test, touching the screen, unplugged from ActiveSync:

Average: 67.26

MIN: 19

MAX: 86
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] xtin:
TyTN II, constantly touching the screen: min: 22, avg: 35.32

TyTN II, without touching the screen: min: 58, avg: 78.55, max: 86

Universal, due to realVGA it behaves odd and is thus not too much of a comparison, still, it has avg. 55 fps and drops to 40 - 45 when using the touch-screen.

It seems to me that a certain drop in framerate when using the touchscreen is considered to be normal, still the 50% in tytn II seem to be somewhat huge.

TyTN II with dutty's dualTouch v3

Universal with thingonaspring 3.2 (WM6, realVGA)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] muuu:
I have a Touch Dual.

Not touching the screen:

Average: 76.88

Min: 52

Max: 85

Touching the screen (A lot):

Average: 19.01

Min: 12

Max: 82

So the 'Min FPS' went down from 52 to 12, thats 77% out the window just by touching. Thats a big hit in performance, in my book.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Kepela523:
Good, can we see some comparisons to older phones and PPC's?? If anyone has older phones??..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Well for FPS that isn't really relevant, is this seems to be a software-3D engine :)

EDIT: Uses GAPI
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Raven6020:
I brought htcclassaction.org and some threads here to the attention of some German and Austrian online and print media (Heise, PC-Welt, etc.).

Maybe we'll see some german coverage as well...hope it helps :)

Regards & thanks to you, Chainfire, for your taken initative.

Matthias
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hello77:
additional issue regarding lawsuit

I know this thread primarily relates to video driver issue; however, myself and many others are not able to use the speaker phone. Specifically, when i use the speaker phone option, i can hear the caller; but they cannot hear me or say i am unintelligible.

I was going to send my phone in for repair/replacement; however, so far everyone i have talked to that has sent there phone in under warranty has said the problem was not fixed even when the phone was "replaced".

As one person said in the following link said:

"I have done 3 warranty exchanges for this problem. All 3 had the SAME problem, so it seems that this problem is not isolated, and it is widespread"

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=337931

The above link also shows other people have sent there phone to repair the speaker issue; and each time the phone was returned unfixed.

You may also want to look at the following link (its a post i started in another forum):

http://www.mobileplanet.com/ft.aspx?k=104689

Some have speculated that the problem maybe related to a software problem while others have claimed due the duplex nature of the speaker/microphone that the problem might be unfixable. However, given the poor state of the video drivers i wonder if this might be a software problem; the bottom line is that the issue remains unresolved for many of us.

In any event, this is even a more basic function of a phone than the video issue. Not saying the video driver issue is not important to resolve; but i think we would all like the speaker phone issue resolved as well.

Any any rate, I would like for you to think about including listing this as another issue in your class action suit webpage or what ever manner you think if you think this issue is appropropriate to be part of the of the lawsuit.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] briggs81:
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/01/20/htc-shipping-devices-with-sub-par-drivers/ hurrah!