yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] YorikR32:
No, the report is true, what is happenign is that it is supplying the details to the hardware, the hardware or software hook that is running it is responding saying that it got it, but it then does nothign with it.. This is already a known thing.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] da_cobra:
There is finally an update on the website of htc :

"In addition to improvements specific to Windows Mobile® 6.1, this update also includes a software update to address certain customer concerns, improving overall display performance and device responsiveness."

Is this the update we are all waiting for?

PS : The update is online since 23/05/08

Edit : I updated my TyTN II with the official update on the website and these are my benchmarks with VS Benchmark 2007 :

test 1 : 1210 (graphics)

test 2 : 1472 (others)

test 3 : 2174 (JPEG)

test 4 : 1371 (Games)

test 5 : 0702 (sound)

Final score : 1385

So what tells this me?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kelpi:
Probably the WWE ROM only, there's no update; patch, that I know of.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pokewrk:
Nope, no graphics improvements in this update. I wasn't really expecting it either. I don't think HTC will ever release them, since they've called the class action bluff (no offense meant against chainfire, I deeply appreciate the huge effort). It's probably up to the able members of the kaiser user community to produce their own drivers.

I just talked two colleagues out of getting a kaiser. It really felt great. I've been a long time HTC/QTEK fan, but it ends here.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moegdaog:
wow didnt think this thread would be so huge...but i guess a lawsuit could possibley work but you would think HTC would put out drivers for a "mini-labtop" phone devices like the tilt since it does do almost everything a computer does. Why not give drivers..but if you wait it out i think they will have to drop the drivers sooner or later
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tubaking182:
but then again when you think about it, when any electronic is made for a computer the drivers are released with the product, and our phones have been out since october so really i feel that we have waited long enough and if we can do anything about it we should
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Imsaffor:
as much as i hate to say it, HTC won. New phones are coming out and the Tilt is all but obsolete at this point. even if they released the drivers, the majority of people on this board even will likely be switching devices VERY soon. Diamond/Touch Pro are coming out REAL soon, as well as Xperia X1 someday. Kaiser is old news now. v.v Kinda sucks, the tilt has left a sour taste in my mouth for WinMo, I'll likely be getting the SE C902 when its released, and stick to not having a smartphone.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] maxh:
I'm not about to abandon my kaiser. I recently switched back to my hermes because I broke the screen on my kaiser and the minute differences in form factor are killing me. I love my kaiser. Easy scrolling in landscape mode with my finger on the scroll wheel, etc... The new models of phones look like iphone wanna-be touchscreen centered devices. That is not a good thing. I like the hardware buttons and scroll wheel in well thought-out positions, and will not upgrade to a new device that makes manual use of the device more difficult than the previous version. So I will still be waiting for someone to develop drivers for the best form factor device released or announced so far: the kaiser.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pachjo:
So the question is......

Where are the gurus up to in trying to come up with a driver?

I appreciate it is an unbelievably complex project, but does anyone have a progress report?

I am already looking at other devices, but I am one of the plonkers that paid full whack for my TyTnII and so my other half will kill me if I blow another wad!

I love my TyTnII but am so displeased with how HTC have crapped on their customers!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rfarnell:
Have you tried Dutty's and Laurentius26's latest ROM's in the Kaiser ROM forum? Now is probably a good time to start experimenting with them. The 3D driver hooks aren't quite there, but they are definitely snappier than the original system.

Rob
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moegdaog:
sry to say but the kaiser is not old news...and i strongly doubt that a high percentage of people with a kaiser, especially me will be abandoning their tilt when the drivers come out. That is what is going to be drawing more people to their kaisers is the drvers. It will be like reexperiencing a new phone again with the drivers coming out. YEa sure when the touch pro/diamond come out there will be some people swaping phones, but i belive the strong majority of people dont really want to switch out phones, especally when they payed $300 plus dollars for there tilt. The kaiser is a very sick phone and it does alot of PPC task very well, with windows mobile 7 coming out late this year and drivers most likely by the time the service providers drop the 6.1 update...the kaiser will be a whole new experience....believe it.

ps. its not like were people with that **** of a phone iphone trying to swap out for the newer iphone that comes with GPS and 3G...we have all that alrdy, plus bluetooth...we just need drivers...not a whole new phone. (period)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
The official WWE 3.28.405.0 Radio 25.83.40.02_1.65.16.25 6.1 ROM has just become visible on HTC e-club for me so going to give it a try!

Not holding my breath though. :rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
GPS problems with new firmware

Be aware if you use GPS on your TyTN II, there are GPS performance problems big time with the new firmware you mentioned. Personally I'd rather I stayed with WM 6.0 until this had been resolved as now I have to wait for a fix to my waiting for a fix! HTC wont provide the old firmware for users to revert, they'll only do this if you send the device in to them so up?grade at your peril.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
No problems here with my GPS! If anything, I would say apart from the obvious basic GUI and SW changes it is not really any change to WM 6.0 speed wise.

Oh well, back to the E90 and wait for my Diamond pro...:o
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
GPS probs still present with new HTC firmware

I cant figure that out unless they have extra powerful GPS satelites in orbit above your house/area of use and virtually anything will get a fix quickly. It's definitely a very problematic ROM here in the UK for GPS and others have posted here with similar probs. This is in the same areas and situations where the original WM 6 ROM worked OK and the difference is very obvious. As an example yesterday, I tried starting Tomtom on the train (I like to see how fast it's going). I waited 11 mins and gave up without getting a fix in areas/situations where it previously received a fix within about 2 or 3 mins on the same type of train (no heat reflective coated windows) under the same circumstances with WM 6. Given HTCs record on drivers for the TyTN II I'm sure it's driver related.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kdemetriou:
Hi Vukile, Chainfire, All

Well done on the site.

My credentials first - even though I am a junior member I have been a member of this site for many years and have had a Wallaby, Himalaya, Wizard, Hermes and now Kaiser. I have been a member of xda-developers since the early days even though on occasion I would loose my logon details and join again.

I feel that many new & senior members are missing the point you and so many of us are making. I must raise my hat to you sir!

I have a Kaiser, use it all around the world, paid a lot of money for it because of the GPS, Do I like it? No! Would I pay the same money again? No! Do HTC care? No!

The point is that it’s the third question that has our blood boiling!

Everyone knows what the issues are with the Kaiser, so I do not intend to list them again here. However not everyone realizes that every phone that HTC ever made is overhyped in that does not meet expectations. This IS HTC responsibility.

If HTC did care then they would at least communicate their intentions. Well HTC, here is a challenge for you…. XDA-Developers is a respected site and representative of you global user base. Why don’t you setup a WIKI and respond to your many respected customers on a regular basis?

My question is why do you overhyped your phones?

Alas from experience, I know that HTC will not respond to this or any other email/communication etc.

So back to the point that Chainfire is making, The class action suite will hurt them enough to warrant a response. The assumption is however, that HTC have the morals to give it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
Hey if you and others are having problems and some others are not, don't blame it on me and act as though I am lying please.

It could be that I get a better fix than you! If you took the time to look at my location, I am in Abu Dhabi, UAE. Its pretty flat out here.. and my TyTynII is a very recent Middle East model so there is possibly a revision difference. Chill your anger at me and channel it at HTC! :rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
Not wanting to 'blame it on you' clearly HTCs poor drivers are the culprit. Sorry if you saw things otherwise.

If you took the time to review your profile page, you'd see I'd already had a nosey there (as well as noticing the details on your post about this).

I've tried mine in plenty of flat areas since the upgrade, sure they're not on the same scale as where you are but still a total lack of tall surrounding structures, still far worse than under WM 6.0 here - and the difference is the main point:( The only location out your way I've been to was Bahrain but that was before I bought my TyTN II so I can't report on how it works there. I'm glad you see HTC is in need of people channeling their anger about this issue at them. I encourage everyone experiencing upgrade GPS performance downgrades, to write to them in a civil manner. I will be, when I get the time to do so.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pachjo:
I have upated to the ROM available at the HTC site as from advice from power users on this site is that ALL ROM here should be classed as beta and installed at users peril.

I do not unfortunately have the noggins to flash my kaiser the way your guys do so alas have to stick with the HTC stuff! :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pachjo:
Are you referring to the WM 6.1 update HTC have provided?

I am concerned to hear aout the GPS problem especially as I will be using it to guide me from UK to Bavaria in July!!

If I do some local testing here and it proves to be a problem are you saying there is no way for me to revert my TyTn II back to WM 6.0?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
Thats exactly the one - here in the UK through their eClub.

HTC advised me the only way they'd support reverting to WM 6.0 is if I sent the phone in for them to do it. They said that'd take around 5 days and they were unwilling to provide a simple program so I could do it myself. I found WM 6.0 to be more reliable and other than the snappier screen redraws when changing between portrait and landscape and the zooming in Internet Explorer, I wish I'd stayed with WM 6.0. Their version of WM 6.1 is just more trouble than it's worth.

As you can install the WM 6.1 update at any stage (just keep the file tucked away on your PCs hard drive but a newer fixed one should supersede it IMO), my advise if you're wanting reliable GPS performance the official way is to hold off any upgrading until HTC finally admit there's a problem and do something to actually fix it. In my experience they’re slow when it comes to such things, so if the GPS is needed in July, you’re best not to upgrade.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pachjo:
Ah, but I already have upgraded using their WM6.1 files from the e-club site so no going back now.

Odd that you say you feel 6.1 is more trouble than it is worth tho.

Since I installed it I do find the screen updating slightly quicker and in panic yesterday I sat at my office windo and turned TomTom Navigator on to see how long to pick up a signal and got 4 bars in under 2 minutes.

I also note that when I use TomTom I need to ensure I have all other apps turned off which is no problem when driving, but this was true with WM6.0.

Also a I find that when I take a pit stop I need to exit TomTom before opening other applications, especially IE as this send TomTom whacko if still open. But again this was true under WM6.0

Since upgraded I have not experienced any real problems at all, but still cannot play movies or video files without lag which still miffs me!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
HTCClassAction.org updated - you will want to read this!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] wshader:
Hmm, good to see progress is being made
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] slovoflud:
FanTastic! :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
This is exciting!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sswalia:
What would be considered a complete success?

Awesome news!

Thanks to everyone working on this still, even with the "lifetime" of the device coming to a close. The perseverance in this thread and with these drivers are a testament to the strength and ingenuity of the xda community.

I do have some general questions though. What kind of performance improvements can be expected/hoped for with OpenGL hardware acceleration.

It seems like so many false/partial driver releases and updates* have been supplied all of which have had very small impacts on my kaiser performance.

So what is considered a complete sucess with this project?

Thanks!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ericmcintire:
hmm playstation emulation would be nice... smooth scrolling on PIE... no video pausing when adjusting the volume... few other things...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Right now what's being worked on is OpenGL ES, and if that goes full well, D3D and DD. Unforunately it doesn't look like - at this point - the GDI (normal windows 2D stuff) will be accelerated much or even at all.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
yay!!!!! hope this goes well!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RPG0:
Humble render programmer here:

The white thing you see in the movie is the backbuffer, when you "flip", which is garbage because the Kaiser doesn't support back buffer. And it moves because this piece of s^&t can't VSync properly.

Sorry for the language but i lost many nights on those things too.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
So then, where will we see the improvement? Just in video playback?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
well in that youtube video it wasnt video being played, it was a benchmark, so i would assume it's more than video, such as games too.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moegdaog:
eh fars man ama be goin to dubai this mid summer....is gps reception not as well as in the US or UK?...im using WM6 too not 6.1 so im sure i wont have those gps fix problems like some 6.1'ers....the main thing is i know im going to be using TT alot and need to know
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Note: added a second - much better - video showing off OpenGL ES.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] somerandomname:
yeah the 2nd video is much ncier to see. Anyways, the kaiser finally has some hope!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thx for the update.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Isaygarcia:
lol whos the responsable of that???? O_O!!

could you provide some drivers and/or the ROM ur using??
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
GPS reception is good all around UAE but one or two spots in Dubai are getting a little difficult due to the huge number of skyscrapers going up. Mid East maps are always slightly out of date there also cause the roads change daily due to the works. :o
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
lol COME ON did they REALLY need to record that second video at such a low FPS? that is like 5-10fps in that recording. atleast it shows that it was 136fps, but trying to show this in a low framerate is funny lol. It's like trying to advertise a Best Buy TV with 120hz at 5fps.

or like i posted in the youtube comments "yeah the drivers are all right here, look at the framerate! o wait..you cant! ha!"
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bronx:
I think that I am a bit of a geek as I got wood after reading those above :D just kidding ;)

anyway- can chainfire or anyone else let us know is that result in benchmark good or what? how is it comparable to let's say dell axim or other accelerated devices??

maaan... I am going to donate straight away to that brave hero, who f#&%? the infamous htc into their big, greasy bum. :P

can't wait to play quake 3 on kaiser :D

thank You and keep us informed.

bro
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
No, the white you see is GDI filling erasing the window with the default WHITE brush (since this isn't a full-screen app that would qualify for a buffer flip) before it does a partial blit of whatever the GL stuff is coming from.

Also, this proves that the WM6.1 release included a lot of drivers for graphics acceleration (the screen rotate is nice now), there is 3D hardware available in the cpu, and HTC/Qualcomm is still holding stuff back.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikulec:
I knew it!!:mad:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] slovoflud:
i think if the guy is successful, for the money he'll get - i'd guess that's about $10K, he'll get himself a nice camcorder :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Memnoch30:
Exciting times! I'd love to get some 2D acceleration as well for scrolling and all that stuff, but to be honest, at this stage I'll take anything I can get. Thanks for all the hard work! Maybe I won't switch away from my phone just yet.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] c-pimp:
new video posted recorded with actual camera instead of diamond it would appear and has better fps benchmark than the diamond for the 3d benchmark they are doing....

interesting to see that and also I nearly forgot to mention I CANT WAIT....

progress is being made and its really nice to see that video... I can only imagine how much time it will take but again the 10k is probably inspiring to keep working on it hehehe....

w00t w00t !!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
Only one thing scares me. I really hope in the next rom that includes these drivers they will still have direct draw! most recent roms (mainly the diamond build) have been missing direct draw, and i cant play games like quake, quake 2, and duke nukem!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] d3sm0nd:
Awesome news =)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
40 8-hour days is what $10K would be worth to a good programmer... I just wish someone from HTC would leak out some key piece of code to help this move along!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] vproman:
This is probably old news, but I figured I'd post it here anyways.

I went to download the BREW SDK, and saw this notice I had to agree to before downloading it:

Qualcomm will not support for use in the U.S.:

MSM6275, MSM6280, MSM7200, MSM7200A, ESM6270, ESM7205, ESM7205A, MSM7500A, MSM7600

If first sold to customer after 5/29/2007, Qualcomm will not support the following for use in the U.S.:

MSM6150, MSM6175, MSM6500-90, MSM6500-130, MSM6550, MSM6550A, MSM6575, MSM6800, MSM6800A, MSM7500

Unless used in the manner prescribed by Qualcomm for use in the U.S., Qualcomm will not support for use in the U.S.:

1. QSC6075, QSC6085, MSM7525, MSM7601, MSM7625, MDM1000, QSD8650

and baseband chips released after 12/31/2007

2. If parent MSMxxx0/5 parts were sold to customer after 5/29/2007:

MSM6151, MSM6171, MSM6551, MSM6551A, MSM6571, MSM6801, MSM6801A, MSM7501, MSM7501A, MSM7601

The foregoing restrictions shall not apply to U.S. wireless terminals represented to Qualcomm by Verizon Wireless as being exclusively made on their behalf.

Qualcomm will provide technical support for U.S. wireless terminals using MSM6275, MSM6280, MSM7200, MSM7200A, ESM6270, ESM7205 and ESM7205A, if sold to customer prior to 12/31/2007.

------------------

More evidence that the reason there are no drivers is that Qualcomm can't provide them, as this would be considered "support" would it not?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
HTC is not in the US. Giving HTC drivers would be giving a non-US entity support. HTC has no such restriction in supporting its customers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] MickyMax:
Where come from the ROM of the second video ? Can you share it ? :rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
It will be shared when it's ready - the OpenGL ES driver is now working well enough to do some demo-ing (coolness factor, prove HW 3D CAN be done on these devices - whatever HTC says, and let people know we're still on the job), but most OpenGL ES apps still do not work with it, it needs some more work.

I think there will be a release once the OpenGL ES driver works 100%.

BTW, the current drivers do not need a custom ROM, they just need a ROM based on the 6.1 update from HTC. They could be dropped in with a CAB. FYI, my own tests were done on Dutty's Diamond V1 + additional driver files just copied and placed at the right location. This would change if we also add a DDI/GDI driver, though.

I think the order of things will be OpenGL ES --> D3D --> DD --> DDI/GDI, not sure though.

Everything I wrote here is subject to change :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] MickyMax:
Very good work man ! :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] esselite:
updates

:) Every time when I decide to get rid of the Kaiser I see the update from HTC class which is letting me think that it`s better to wait more few weeks or months.

Thanks for that info. I`m still with the Kaiser because of you ^_^
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] slovoflud:
Same here man! :)

nearly got myself an iPhone - Twice! :) but stayed with Kaiser in hope of the drivers (And Android of course!)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Bratag:
And this is why I love these forums

Great work even as a POC. I stick with the kaiser because of this and because quite frankly nothing else is out yet that is so much better it would make me leave. We shall see in Q3 if thats the case. Great work once again
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] evilc:
My birthday was monday, so you are late with the drivers already.

EPIC FAIL

But seriously, great news.

Oh, and what do you think the chances are once you are done of a kaiser being able to play a 720x576 (1.067 pixel aspect ratio) @ 25FPS (Progressive or interlaced) DivX actually at 25FPS?

So that's a change in pixel aspect ratio, a rescale and possibly dealing with interlacing. Asking too much?

I only ask cause I make movies and distribute them in full PAL, plus I have stuff other people have done like this too and want to keep a load of them on my phone - it would be nice to only have to have one full res copy on the sd card that will play on the phone or (if pulled off the SD card to a laptop) on a TV.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chaps:
Any chance you could throw us the occaisional video as you make progress ;-)

Good luck with your work.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
I'm not the one hacking the drivers :) I help, but, it's not my work.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] darkshadowen:
As a new comer to the Kaiser community (AT&T Tilt, purchased a few weeks back) I must say this is very exciting to see. It was really discouraging when I found out about the HTC Video Driver debacle but now there is a bright and seemingly strong ray of hope to correct this problem.

Just want to say good job to the developer(s) working on this issue and putting together the video drivers. I can't wait to see the final outcome!