yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
Believe me, there will be no hw graphics accelerator drivers released by HTC, at least for current devices.

They will only release "optimized" ROM which will improve the performance (a bit?) ...

The driver is there, available for purchase from Qualcomm, but HTC opted to not buy that option.

But still, from all of this driver saga, we got our lesson for next purchase ... Be careful when reading advertisement, especially from HTC. We have now our "standard question" for all new devices: "Is there any hw graphics accelerator?" :)

HTC got hurt, for sure, people are now changed ... They also learned a lesson ... but I think, it's too late.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Zman28SS:
It's sad to see a company that used to make pretty decent products stoop this low.

Totally agree. That would be a legitimate question for most companies, however we all know NOW that HTC would say "yes, we do have a hardware graphics accelerator". The question they wouldn't like is "Are you USING the hardware graphics accelerator?":mad:

I just pray that we successfully get this class action thing off the ground. Even if we don't get the drivers, hopefully laws will be put in place targeting PPCs to prevent this from ever happening again. I guarantee if Intel tried to pull a stunt like selling Core 2 Duo processors and not telling anyone that the second processor was disabled, the **** would hit the fan.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mosser:
Damn, I was just looking into getting a new WM phone, and this was looking like the one i wanted after reading all the specs on it, but after reading about the graphics issues and seeing the really slow response in the tomtom comparison videos on youtube, I am now considering the Nokia N81 instead

Are there any other non HTC WM PPC phones that have built in GPS that i should be looking at ?

i used to think that HTC devices were the cutting edge of technology, but they are dropping their standards lately and will soon be playing catch up to the likes of Nokia if they start producing WM phones
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mack5305:
Microsoft is talking to Nokia about Windows Mobile. Wouldn't surprise me if Nokia takes the bait.

Next phone? Back to Nokia for me. At least I be able to HEAR and have the called person able to HEAR me as well (HTC seems to issues in that dept.).

Graphics should be better as well, as will GPS since they bought Navteq. MediaNet should pair up well too.

Not to mention better Zeiss camera optics.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
Google's Android phones look promising.

I think we're going to end up porting the driver from another device or we'll have a few devs hack and slash to get a proper hw driver going.

Unless someone actually does sue HTC, we probably won't get any hw graphics drivers from them.

Seeing as how Google's Android is supposed to be an open platform, it will most likely run on our current devices.... they just posted a vid of Quake running full speed on the MSM7200, so unless someone gets those drivers working, many HTC owners will probably dump WM for Android and Microsoft will suffer.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Just a thought.. maybe when writing to HTC we should try to demand drivers as loyal customers, instead of accusing them that they should've done them in first place? Oh, and specifically tell them that we want those drivers for Kaiser. We don't care about later Phones since if no drivers will be released for Kaiser, they can buy those phones themselves, since we won't give a crap about those gimped bricks.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] nickdahat:
My question is on all this, why aren't we going after not only HTC, but Qualcomm, ATT, Vodaphone, Sprint, etc. to get a resolution? Considering that the Tilt wouldn't exist without AT&T et. al. Shouldn't they be bearing some part of this brunt?

It's not how big of a fire you light that burns the bridges down, its how many!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] david9541:
I would pay for an update

If it comes down to HTC not buying an option from Qualcomm then I would be willing to pay for an update that would include drivers. I also think that the carriers hold some of the blame after all they were the ones who wrote the specs for the phones. The Mogul would be the best phone if it had drivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] swiftgs:
Re

Are you completely out of your mind? paying HTC for new drivers on a 700$ phone....

come on, if you're buying a 42" LCD TV and they dont give you a remote control, you also not going to pay for that......

My opinion is that this will end as a storm in a waterglass and nothing will happen. No classaction lawsuit, no new drivers and HTC wil not notice a thing in sales on their new devices..... I think we'll all be waiting for some new drivers htc promised to release in march, or wait till a new device come out so we can rip the drivers out of that one...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
We will sue if we don't get anything. Why do people think so negatively? All we have to do is keeps our hopes up, and guards up, so when they give us an actual driver our hopes win and when they don't our guards come in and sue their asses until we get what we want!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] swiftgs:
Offcourse i still hope the best of it, just as everyone, but how long will you be positive? This issue is already taking more than 5 months, how long do you think a lawsuit will take? My guess is at least 6-9 months.

So as stated before, I'm hoping for the promised fix from HTC (if it's a cabfile or a new rom, I dont care, as long as it improves performance) or someone to rip out the driver from another device, but getting new drivers with a lawsuit, no way thats going to happen in due time...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tyeo098:
Taking 3 seconds to draw the start menu does not qualify as 'High resolution video.' HMPH...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] nushuth:
lies lies lies an more lies!!!

hi all! i'm an italian htc owner.

There is another BIG lies from HTC. If a chip called "MSM7200" is based on or contain an ATI imageon hardware, you cannot sell it with the same name but without imageon circuit.

If that's the case, you have to change it's name, something like "msm7200 lefty". So HTC can't say "this smartphone does not have imageon hardware" or "MSM7200 does not have imageon hardware" or sometnig like that.

that's the case:

1) kaiser does not have an MSM7200 chip in it

OR

2) kaiser HAVE full imageon hardware in it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] saprydion:
Can anyone please show me a video of Kaiser's "touchscreen" issue?? Because my Kaiser (bought in Taiwan, HTC branded, and I think manufactured in September, running stock Chinese WM6 rom) isn't slow like everyone is describing.

The only time that I experienced really slow touchscreen performance is when I had MemMaid installed. Before I discovered that it was MemMaid that was giving me problems, I hard reset twice and each time I installed MemMaid along with my other programs. After I suspected the culprit was MemMaid, I hard reset for the third time and installed all my usual programs without MemMaid, and it became quite snappy! And now, it does not take 3 seconds to draw the start menu...

And over at the HTCClassaction.org, they mentioned that a new developed game does not suffer from touchscreen issue without doing anything special and they do not understand why. Well, I am thinking maybe it is because they do not have certain programs (e.g. MemMaid) installed?

So far, only MemMaid has caused me problems.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
Some people have the problems more obviously and some don't, it depends on use and what the device is mainly used for. I have a general slow down of the system, if the drivers where up and running there would be less strain on the processor leaving more room for application processing and it would be an almost perfect device(nothing is perfect).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
Pls see this conversation http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=1985923&posted=1#post1985923 (400 MHz or another HTC lie?)

Chainfire I wait to read your opoinion about these thoughts! And don't forget that kaiser uses two cpus (main arm11 400MHz and secondary arm9 radio only cpu)! Or not? Pls read all the conversation and answer something!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kayesque:
I think the driver issue is overblown, for instance how many frames per second do you need GPS software to be? Not very many, I'd wager. I get decent performance out of my device, no it's not perfect, but it's not a deal breaker for me. Playing games/movies on the device isn't a critical need for me, and obviously this is the wrong device for it. Yes I wish I had 2d/3d accel, but I went ahead and bought the phone anyway, and I don't regret it. I suggest to at least TRY the phone before you discount it. What may be a big deal to others may not end up being so important to you. I know when I found out about the driver issue I was very upset, but the phone was still in transit, now that I have received it, the performance is acceptable to me. There is no other phone on the market that has all of this functionality built into it. If there was another option I would have taken it, but this is it. Show me another device with this kind of functionality and I will buy it.

I've never seen anything from Nokia that operates at this level.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
What about their attitude?

What's not overblown is the manufacturers unwillingness to really listen to buyers concerns (even though they claim they are) and to quickly do the right thing about it. Manufacturer attitude is vitally important to me when it comes to whether they get my business or repeat business.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
It's not overblown. It may not be a HUGE issue right now, but this sort of corporate negligence needs to be addressed before it gets any worse.

Companies cannot just advertise included hardware features that are not enabled! If they said it has an MSM7500, it better have a fully functional MSM7500... not software-gimped!

Check out all the class-action suits that are popping up around the iPhone (not telling everyone that the battery isn't user-serviceable.. etc...)

These phones aren't trivial little toys... we rely on them for communication and organization. They cost us hundreds of dollars. We have the right to know what they have and do not have prior to purchase.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] luthor_70:
I disagree with you, you can't be happy with a device that cost 700$ (and even 1000$ for the Athena wich has the same problems) and act really less well than a PC older than 10 years. The HTC's devices really make me think like when you have just installed Windows on a new PC and that the graphic drivers are not installed yet. The display is slow to death, a GameBoy Advance can do better for just a few 50$. You just have to install that little piece of code, and yeah your machin acts like a formula one. Imageon hardware or no imageon hardware, that's the same, a device with such a price and that behave like that, it is just a pure shame. Shame to HTC, also shame to Eten because their devices are just the same pieces of crap. No sorry, they are worst.

Nokia is far more better, their devices just lake the screen touch function, but they now realised that they can't do without it any longer. Next Nokia's phones, and maybe other phones from other brands will be HTC killers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
I agree regarding graphics acceleration drivers, otherwise the company is guilty of false advertising. It's been mentioned elsewhere but remember the wording of their official statement has been carefully chosen to suit their purposes. ...."and can confirm that its Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices do not use ATI’s Imageon video acceleration hardware". This is not the same as "does not contain video acceleration hardware similar to ATIs Imageon". Of course such hardware isn't being used because appropriately written drivers are required to do this and they're the part thats missing. It would be wrong to fall into the trap of thinking their official statement means the hardware (chip) is missing the graphics acceleration part.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kayesque:
This product was never advertised to me as having 3d acceleration. While it would be cool if it did, and while I think HTC has mishandled the situation, I think the phone does it's job well. I'm not trying to argue this point, only encourage people to try it out and see if it performs satisfactorily.

I have considered returning it, but what other options do I have?

Also, I paid $180 (- $50 rebate = $130) for the phone.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] belon_cfy:
HP IPAQ 610C, ASUS P750 will be better and perform faster than TYTN 2
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
To all of you who don't understand! THIS WHOLE F*****G PROBLEM IS NOT JUST A GRAPHICS ACCELERATION PROBLEM! Read this:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=339745&page=85

This is my starting message:

400 MHz or another htc lie?

Guys I have a crazy idea! Has anyone checked if our qualcomm main processor is underclocked? Ok HTC says 400 MHz but maybe they are lying about it! Even without drivers I think that an ARM 11 400 MHz processor would be capable enough to outperform ΤΙ ΟΜΑP 200 MHZ in all aspects!

However htc touch seems to be more efficient than our powerhouse!

Unfortunately there is another very annoying issue! Is it possible that our main processor needs software from qualcomm in order to perform as expected?

I hope that there are answers to these questions! PLS Chainfire or any other ppc guru can you confirm or take objection to these ideas? Is it possible for a strong main processor like ours to underperform so much that even playing a video or a simple ppc game like spb's arkaball is a hard task? Is it possible a 400 MHz processor to be so slow when we scroll text? For God's sake it's still a 400 MHz processor what we' re talking about! In addition older ppcs lacked a graphics processor unit as well! WTF is happening here?

If what I say is right then this issue isn't just about graphics! It's a main processor unit failure! And maybe we can prove more easily that HTC deceived us! PLS do some tests if possible! If our processor isn't 400 MHz after all imagine what will happen next for HTC! Additionally is more important for us to understand why our main processor is underperforming! Don't forget that our main processor is the only part that operates right now. Even if someday we manage to resurrect our GPU our devices will continue to underperform if our cpu is so weak!

Pls read all the responses after that post and write down what YOU THINK! THX!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bandit2xx:
Memmaid works fine

I have a Orange UK tytn 2 with HTC ROM installed on it and french radio! I can tell you memmaid didn't cause me no problem ! I have loads of software and the only thing I noticed is slow is the wmv video playback and some video lag once in awhile... my start menu draw is instant and even touchflo cube is extra fast... scroll isn't that bad since I instaled that fix from this site... but I would really like a faster video performance since I own also a HP hx2750 and you can't compare the smoothness in every aspect!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
Lawyer

I spoke with a lawyer about this issue over the weekend, and sent him the link to HTCClassAction.org. He's now read through all of it, and has told me that he thinks it would be a great class action lawsuit, provided HTC doesn't come out with a patch or fix by April (or whenever they said they would).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
This sounds promising - although ti sounds like any interested lawyers wiould now hold off any action until HTC have released their software fix, in case it solves all the problems. Perhaps this is HTC's real aim with the "fix" - to stall any activity re class action lawsuits for another couple of months?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ~~Tito~~:
Its just optimizing the things. It was on gizmodo and they posted their response and announcement. It was a optimization to make the menu's faster and redraw.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
Show the Lawyer my post about Computer Lemon Laws... that should seal the deal. They said March, so they have until April 1st.

The Broadcom/Qualcomm patent dispute might be their scapegoat, but they need to either settle with owners of the affected devices or fix the issue.

Honestly, I think they're crippling the devices so that Windows mobile 7 (2009) won't run on them at all.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
If all thats required are drivers that support any future OS, what makes you think they wont be available by then (especially as more manufacturers seem to be choosing to use Qualcomm chips)? Personally Windows Mobile 6 is fine for my needs. My biggest gripe (other than incomplete driver support) is the connectivity software Microsoft provide for synching with desktop PCs, thats the weak link.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] giojoe:
--------------BUMP
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sandyind:
While a lawsuit, petition et al may cause HTC to acknowledge their mistakes, the only real way to go about it is to vote with your money. Do not buy the next HTC device.

The Tytn II was a much-awaited upgrade for me from the iMate JASJAM which had serious touchscreen issues. While the touchscreen was sorted out in the Tytn II, battery life sucks big time, call drops have become a part of life and the camera is as good as trash. If I use the device for all the functions it is supposedly intended to perform, it either runs out of power or memory.

Whats the point? I'm waiting for someone else to build a new Windows Mobile device so I can shift loyalty onto that new device.

Or is it that Windows Mobile as a platform isnt capable of delivering all that it claims to?

Hell, I might just go and buy that stupid iPhone. If they come up with a 3G version, its bye-bye HTC. From me, at least.

We've been more than patient. Some of us (like me, for instance) have been using HTC devices since 2002. Even earlier, if you consider the first iPaqs. If they cant get their act together after so many years, there's really no hope. Find someone else you can depend on for similar devices.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] manaaa:
just wanted to remind y'all, in no longer than 3 weeks from today we

maybe

have a working Fix, if real drivers or not .. that we will know in the near future.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
I'd hate to say it but if the iPhone had 3G/WiMax, MicroSD card slot, 3rd party app freedom, handwriting recognition, voice command, GPS, and user serviceable battery... I'd be all up on dat b*tch.

Unfortunately, while it may get voice command, the 3rd party apps will suck even with the sdk (Apple's restrictions!) plus all of that missing hardware just completely KILLS the iPhone for me.

Pointui, Microsoft voice command, and Opera mobile 9.5 will keep me on windows mobile for the time being.

It's a slick looking phone, the UI is quite nice, but that doesn't make up for what it's missing.

If HTC, Qualcomm, ATi, and Sprint would get off their butts and release those vid drivers, they would KILL the iPhone off completely!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] JohnForger:
They advertised the graphics chip on their website and in a number of press conferences, so we would have been unreasonable to expect otherwise, especially from a reputable company like HTC. I guess we were all wrong.

EDIT:

It might be wise to consider some formal demonstration at their headquarters or sending the petitions to a sympathetic major media outlet. HTC doesn't care about what we say because they know very few of their customers are going to read any of our activity. If anyone knows anyone from the major smartphone/PDA magazines or websites, it might be useful to contact them.

Why doesn't someone say monopoly since, at least to me, it seems almost plausible that they can screw their customers of their high-end models so much and reasonably expect us to just buy their next model.

If we make it less profitable to ignore or fight us--which with our small numbers it probably is--they will stop ignoring us. Unless they are really that stubborn.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] weasel:
I 100% agree. I really like my wife's iPhone, but without high speed internet with tethering, built in GPS and tomtom, I'm sticking to my kaiser
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Zman28SS:
fix date

has anyone seen a solid date for this "fix" from htc anywhere?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
all quiet before the storm?

HTC classaction.org has not been update anymore since feb 23 and I got no more direct contact with Jorrit being the Taiwanese based contact.

Will try to see what is happening on his side, but I know he was submerged with his work (or.... is HTC a friend of his now?...)

I assume that we all still wait what HTC will deliver (NOT the camera fix though) and we probably will regret we DID waited.

For sure it will be 6.1 release with some tweaks but I guess we all can agree that NO better video performance can be expected. Plenty of proof around now that HW accelaration will not be enabled.

They (HTC) might even drop in some QTV settings "stolen/borowed" from CoreCodec for software optimization / rendering.

I still have my 500 USD blocked which I reserved either for supporting administratively a lawsuit or investing in a driver fix.

Now I am thinking of offering this to the one who makes me a personalized ROM :rolleyes:

Well, I am not giving up. Whatever the outcome will be,like someone else stated, HTC lost credibility and maybe earnings, we lost being treated as garbage, and maybe even MS credibility as "PDA WM6 phones suck you see!!"
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] wing103:
Trust me, everyone.

If HTC do not do anything this time right. I will not buy any HTC product in my life.

And I will tell all people that I know do not buy HTC products.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] SINNN:
Yup, me too. i was a devoted HTC fan until now. If there is no fix for my Touch I will never , ever, buy HTC again. Because they will do this again. I guarantee. :mad:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
if people wanted this kind of corporate negligence, they would've bought an iPhone
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] drownage:
yea... same no more HTC fan...

I love iPhone, but it was too expensive... so i got Tilt (cheaper since i bought it with contract)...

But, im not trusting HTC again either... I am just hoping to get phones with Nvidia APX2500 WITH driver or maybe just google android so that even if we're missing something, we can just it ourselves... oh how much i love open source...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] XtreMe_G:
i was browsing around the general forums.......and i saw this

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=1996487

apparently toshiba portege g900, and o2 xda flame also are suffering from a driver problem nvidia goforce 5500 devices, from the little that i read seems like they have crappy drivers for their devices

xda flame petition:

http://www.petitiononline.com/xdaflame/petition.html

g900 petition:

http://www.petitiononline.com/g900drv/petition.html
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 4Site:
any updates

from anyone?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Zoolooc:
Guess these findings (and the findings "about the findings") belong to http://www.htcclassaction.org/ and capturing a lot more attention. Why do us customers always have to be screwed like this by marketing-blabla?