yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Blowfish64:
Just for those of you who don't think HTC knew of this issue, I've posted a response from Holishi (an HTC employee) who responded to one of my statements on howard forums:

Holishi:

Sigh....it has to do with business agreement between HTC and Qualcomm. HTC definitely wants to implement the driver to ATI Imageon hardware, but Qualcomm is......oh well.....

Basically what this is saying is that Qualcomm has drivers for the processor, but HTC decided they didn't want to pay for them. So they simply didn't include them in any of their devices and didn't mention it to the customers.

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1295458&page=3&pp=15
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
That is one beautifully tasty piece of information, Blowfish64!

If only we had known this two days ago. But still, we may spin this to our advantage.

However, I do see what you quoted, but I don't see how you reach that conclusion. Clarification?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Blowfish64:
Well, reading between the lines, we know that Qualcomm has drivers for the processor. The KS phone has them. We'll have to see if the imates do too. As for what the "business agreement" was, can you think of any conceivable reason why Qualcomm would say, "Ok HTC, we'll give you a big bulk-sale of our chips... but you better not use them to full advantage or we're going to be pissed!" I certainly can't. However, I certainly CAN see the conversation going more like, "Ok, after negotiation, we'll sell you a big quantity of our chips at the price you're asking, but if you want the drivers for them, it'll cost extra." HTC: "Oh, yeah we don't really want to spend the extra money as long as we have a good deal on the chips. Our customers won't notice anyway." That's my take on it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/01/17/htc-owners-arms-graphics

Investigate? They know too well what the issue is about. Thanks to INQ for giving it some legs ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
So this just gets better and better - now it looks like we'll get the drivers when HTC pays Qualcomm for them? Just how much did we have in the bounty pot? Enough for a donation to HTC? :-)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
That's a fair enough conclusion if you put it like that, I thought there may have been some quotes I missed.

However, as he doesn't actually say that, I am not sure yet how to use it. I'll sleep on it. Ideas welcome!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
Might be good if people don't immediately head over to HoFo and start haranguing this Holishi guy. So far, he's the only HTC employee I've seen on the fora, and he may give us some useful info. If everyone goes and PM's him, he'll likely either dig his heels in or run for the hills - can't say I'd blame him!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
Before you sleep put the INQ GB link up there on mentions in the press. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Wow hadn't seen that yet. Damn Google-Analytics and their some hours retention. It's going up in a minute.

I'm partial to contacting the inquirer right now and quoting the quote to them... You got 5 minutes to aye or nay it :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
About not wanting to pay ATi for the licensing fees?

I'd go for it but add a "or perhaps Qualcomm" after the quote if you do. :)

(Since HTC most probably need the Qualcomm specific ATi drivers and not just a generic drivercode)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ladytoast:
Top work guys

Have been following this form the start and it's great to see it starting to get some legs. Top work to the guys putting the hours in, whatever comes out of this (drivers I hope), you are earning big brownie points and there are lots of people watching.

Now it's on The Register, Inquirer and similar sites HTC can't ignore it any more. One would hope they would issue an official response shortly, this kind of press can't be doing them any favours at all.

As a side, it's a shame we can't purchase the drivers direct from Qualcomm our selves ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
@ Chainfire, have you sent it to http://www.intomobile.com/?

A good idea is to steadily send it out to two three more publications each and every day so that it gets contious coverage over a larger period of time rather than a surge that lasts only a few days and then is forgotten by all but us here. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
Just a thought here, but every time the iPhone is mentioned the press goes bananas. Perhaps it should be mentioned that ever since the iPhone's debut HTC has been surfing a tsunami of profit growth from carriers looking for competing devices. Coincidently, HTC switched to Qualcomm just prior to the iPhone's introduction .

On a sadder note, have a look at PocketNow with the "buyer's remorse angle". How arrogant of them to assume consumers are idiots. I researched my device based on, among other sources, Qualcomm's site which goes out of its way to flaunt the "multimedia experience" their chipsets are supposed provide :rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Nope, I will see about submitting there tomorrow. I still want to get Slashdotted and Dugg though :D More research and proof needed. If one big site picks it up every day...

One of the problems is I will be mostly out of commission from tomorrow afternoon til sunday evening :( So next spurge will probably not be 'til sunday.

Interest thought about the iPhone. May put that in there for the next surge.

I also agree with what you say about PocketNow. Actually, specific pieces of text have been added to the site in several places to debunk what they say (have a look, see if you spot them :))
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] difflvl:
Chainfire nice work! This is exactly what we need, get this site linked a few big websites and you can expect a driver from HTC asap.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
It's pissing me off the LINQ from The Inquirer doesn't work though :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 4Site:
Sent this to Engadget mobile

"Apparently HTC's Top Dog of the Past Year, the Kaiser/Tytn II/Tilt, was released lacking the necessary graphic drivers to enable it to perform to the best of its ability.

The lack of native hardware support for the built in Qualcomm graphic's chipset that forms the back bone of the phone seems to have pushed the in-the-know user base of the Tytn II to the point beyond frustration, as threats of class action against HTC and a $3000 bounty incentives to any third party willing to create a working driver have taken the net by storm.

The interesting point being HTC's tactics to keep the whole episode Hush Hush, with many a Tytn II user not even aware that their phone is under performing, it'd would be interesting to see how this story develops as an imminent e-wildfire of the news spread across everyone’s favourite tech sites, and how HTC will cope under the pressure of admitting that they effectively sold a nipped machine to the users, who had it not been of the diligence of these elite XDA guru’s wouldn’t even know their machine had been crippled."
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ericc191:
just curious.. if htc never actually promised high end integrated graphics ect. and qualcomm did, then shouldnt we be going after qualcomm?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nick Collision:
Perhaps its my paranoid conspiracy trait exposing itself, but has anyone considered that the TyTnII devices that were shipped to major reviewers actually HAD the drivers installed?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
Please show us a major reviewer that had a Kaiser without these problems.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dperren:
We need to set a deadline, after which if we havn't seen somthing which improves the performance of our devices to a reasonable level, then we procede with both continuing to propogate information about the poor quality of HTC's products, support and customer care, and continue with a lawsuit.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Zman28SS:
We shouldn't have to set a deadline, they're the ones who said March. And if they had true intentions of providing an update they would have said by now something like "We are still working on a fix for your devices. It it taking longer than expected, but it looks like it will be ready in April." Done, thats all they would have needed to do to show that they are genuinely interested in their customers. But they're not, big shocker.

As far as I'm concerned, today is the deadline. As for taking legal action, if anyone reading this thread lives in California(due to computer lemon law) and owns a Tytn II(not a Tilt/Mda, etc.) please pm me.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tfdeere:
Does anyone remember where HTC announced a fix by the end of March? Was it ever up on thier website...or was it from that email from the CEO? I'm guessing that if it was never posted on thier website, then the supposed fix never existed or was never going to exist in the first place.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bdacier:
It was never on their site as far as I know. The only communication talking about end of march was in the email which may or may not have originated from the CEO.

The only real promise is that there will be an update (no driver) but without a deadline.

All of this is really pissing me off. Note that I have a niki, but also own a ipaq hx2110. And the worst part is that my ipaq (312mhz intel) outperforms my niki bigtime in apps like Mediaplayer (video's) and TomTom. So unless HTC is making all of this better and preferably somewhere in the near future, I'm not ever gonna buy another device of theirs.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rjlynn:
Just wrote em today:

They replied about 2 hours later with the boilerplate reply:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] drownage:
So no drivers?... I guess that means continue the lawsuit right?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mchapman007:
:mad: What a joke..... When and how does legal action begin?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ssjgoku24:
I am completely Pis*** off right now I thought that HTC said they would have something for us today. I guess that something was "oh yeah we're really not going to do sh**.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BBM-Lee:
Eh, I just send an e-mail every day...

"Any word on the driver update for the AT&T Tilt to resolve video issues and lack of responsiveness on the screen during video intensive or 'Flash' applications?"

Sure, doesn't do much, but adds more crap to their inbox, costs them money to pay someone to copy&paste
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] vproman:
Something interesting I found:

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us&client=firefox-a

HTC is pretty sure they can't be sued.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] vproman:
Also found this:

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RayB:
Even if you sue them you can hit them in the pocketbook. The kaiser was just launched here in Tokyo under emobile and the phones arrived this past week.

On my way home from work there is one of the monster electronic shops. Emobile has a booth setup outside generating interest in the phones.

I have started stopping by on a regular basis and plan to continue to do so, hand out 10/20 business cards with a warning about the phone and weblink to the classaction website. Thus far I imagine I have stopped at least a few people from purchasing.

Having pissed away my money on something doesnt mean others have to.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
I red the news about the launch in JP a few weeks ago. Would you mind being the communication pilot refering XDA and HTCclassaction.org on JP specialized websites?

I know that certain people at HTC will be more nervous when bad news from japan is coming in. We like Jp products here in taiwan, but that does not mean that Japanese customers should be screwed with underperforming TW HTC devices.

As for the business card advice , I used some half size A4 leaflets lately giving to 200 customers of a big telecom shopping mall.

You should have seen there faces when a white nose gives a leaflet to them advicing not to buy HTC models...

I started yesterday as HTC did not keep their promisses. Now I just call it revenge. Each sales they loose (and face loss) is a part of the sume they could have put in a solution.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sacre:
Well, Unless something is done, like a mass drop in sales due to customer satisfaction. Or someone attempting a Class Action, nothing will be done by HTC.

Right now, they're gathering profit, at a steady rate getting ready to release newer products that offer video acceleration, for a ridiculous price.

And a lot of customers that love HTC will buy the new product anyways, because a huge majority of consumers are complete idiots.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] corleno:
lol very true...

when HTC came out with TYTN2 i never bothered to read any reviews... nothing

just blindly bought it.

and normally Id do a month of research before a purchase of any electronic item.

atleast iv learnt my lesson the hard way
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] macsbac:
The only thing HTC care about is their profit margins. Clearly they have no concerns about the driver issue and have no intent on fixing it. What we really need to do is start a petition that clearly sends a signal not only to HTC but all their resellars and partners. This petition should be a committment that we do not intend to buy any devices manufactured by HTC clearly stating our reasons why. A copy of this petition should be sent to all those partners such as SE, Vodafone, O2 etc. We should also make it clear to them that if they do not provide non HTC devices we will choose to purchase from other companies that will. Lets start affecting profit margins and share prices. Over 12000 signatures on a $600 device thats a lot of leverage.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] invasion13:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/APPLE_IMAC_LAWSUIT?SITE=WIRE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

when you see that for an european as me,

i dont understand why a class-action isn't possible

when you read this press release

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

regards
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
They did include " HTC does not offer dedicated or optimized multimedia devices and can confirm that its Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices do not use ATI’s Image on video acceleration hardware" in their latest official response and this is on the current HTC Touch Product website... "Optimized for entertainment, the HTC Touch lets you enjoy your favorite music and movie clips through the integrated media suite"

They're asking for it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Infuruno:
But thats the HTC touch which dosent use what we use and they tytn II even without the drives just out performs it (i think).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mack5305:
Anyone ask Dr. Paul E. Jacobs, CEO of Qualcomm, why the drivers weren't issued to HTC (if that is the case) from the above link?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Tenny:
That website does appear to be geared towards the GSM Touch, but the CDMA Touch is a MSM7500 chip set which does suffer from this problem as well...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sacre:
I had myself the HTC touch CDMA from bell.

But its poor performance and lack of an actual qwerty keyboard, the annoyances finally got to me and i ...broke the screen :/

The thing slows down tremendously. you consistantly need to restart it for the "xt9" to keep up. Its just a poor device for a hardcore user.

So, I flashed the little bugger to a stripped windows version 6.1, and it ran a little smoother but still choked up a lot.

trying to text a friend while walking is difficult, and the T9 loves to mess up a lot.

Also, when I try and play any video, the audio lags a little behind. No matter what the video is, audio always lags.

So, its trashed, and i'm regreting it yes because i don't have the money to buy a new phone.

But my next phone will be a blackberry. Or a phone that runs decently smooth, and has a hardware keyboard.

The HTC touch was fun at first, and i was amazed. But the truth slowly slipped out the more i used it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
I wrote a review of how I felt about my HTC device on Amazon.com and Epinions.com (the review sites I commonly read). My hope is that my honest review will help other potential buyers make an informed decision.

To those folks who have been handing out fliers & business cards on the street, you're providing a great service. I wish someone like you had told *me* about the problems of this device before *I* bought it and got locked into a two-year contract.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bdacier:
Are some of you watching this topic here? Check RacerII's post. It seems HTC is at it again, supplying ultra fast review hardware while the consumer hardware is again a lot less.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Yes, and we will probably know if that is true or not later today :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dperren:
If this *is* actually the case, I think I might actually piss myself with joy. HTC would be in for the much-deserved rinsing of a lifetime.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] thimiost:
htc is a fraud

they suck bigtime
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
Hey "J" the man.

Long time I've seen you around. Guess the mail listing on your .org is a dead end as no hitman was found? What are the next steps from HTCclassaction.org point of view?

Waiting to see how you and our chefs are doing on the Sedna ROM?

Keep fingers crossed.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] AGY:
Something is definitely going on I was searching today the chip info at Qualcomm website and noticed that they had block the info with an announcement of an injunction order against them. I am not sure if this is related to the htc classaction or not but somebody has launched a legal action against Qualcomm and got the injunction granted (which is not cheap and also is risky). My concern is, if the injunction was launched by HTC against Qualcomm, it may be more than just driver capabilities issues!! Perhaps misinformation regarding the true capabilities of the chip:eek: (maybe less than what they have posted, quality? Etc.)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] manaaa:
broadcomm sues qualcomm, not htc
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Digitaltigre:
...because we will have the dump from the P6500 test unit today?

:cool:.:highfive:.:cool:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Myeah, too bad the dump never happened... wonder whats going on with todosmartphone... they never got back to anybody.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Digitaltigre:
I bet they either just got scared on their own or HTC contacted them.

For the future, it would be a huge help to have reviewers always dump the WM devices they review. Imagine if we had the ROM from the test Kaisers that got such glowing reviews! At the very least there would be much less mystery surrounding this problem.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hakushox:
I speculate one of 2 things.

#1. The results were fake to begin with.

#2. HTC threatened them.

I do hope I'm wrong on both accounts though.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
They did post news on their site today though, so ...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ?Glitch:
Justice...? Not a Tytn II but it's still HTC....

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/04/review-htc-shif.html
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Digitaltigre:
If not justice at least hilarity. :D Damn, that was the funniest review I've ever read. I especially like this bit ...

I like that reviewers style of humor.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] david9541:
I Asked the Question again

Question to HTC

In the Sprint Mogul users manual on page 184 it states the following: Completely drain the battery before recharging. It may take one to four days to completely drain. All the devices that I work with that have lithium ion batteries tell me to never allow the battery to discharge fully. Is your statement in the manual correct? Also will the WM6.1 update include video drivers?

Answer from HTC

Hello David,

Thank you for your inquiry

David, I know how important it is for you to be able to drain the battery before recharging. Once you have charge it fully, start using the device until run out charge.

Speaking of Windows Mobile 6.1, we do no have any information about the features. These devices are selected by the wireless carriers then reprogrammed, re-branded, and sometimes remodeled at their discretion. Wireless provider has taken complete ownership in supporting this device. They have a technical support team for PDA devices and if required they can forward the issue to the HTC Engineering department. I would recommend that you contact wireless provider technical support and escalate the issue internally.

I hope we have answered your question in detail. Feel free to contact us again if you have any further questions.

HTC Technical Support
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] le55:
If we speak the CONSUMERS ASSOCIATIONS ? :confused:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bapssystupr3m3:
what a nice way to deviate and to be iresponsible lol...go contact them...not us..wow
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
Can we get maybe some comments posted to stay away from HTC?

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/04/review-htc-shif.html
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
Another HTC news item we can add some comments about the lack of drivers:

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/04/08/htc-throwing-uk-bash-on-may-6-but-what-does-it-mean/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
ER is in for HTC... while they had a Q4 2007 16.2% decrease from Q4 2006, they've posted record earnings for Q1 2008... emmmm... now that you've made 1.08 billion in cash, can we have our drivers please?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] spellshaper:
Are there any further actions planned?

It seems, if there were negative publicity and a lot of angry useres, HTC was trying (at least cover it) and promised new update. Now they (HTC) have fresh air and can breathe again (without any drivers). So I think we should continue with old planned efforts (and I dont mean lawsuit necessarily).

Go back to emails and ask support again, tell press and website to ask HTC where is update and so on...

*writing ticket to HTC support* :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Critical_Impact:
The Eten X800 seems to suffer from this as well. It lags when you touch the touchscreen. Obviously it's something to do with gwes so hopefully if it gets fixed on the HTC devices someone can fix it on the Eten as well.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
I have been trying to organize our efforts a little better but so far my thread has been ignored:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=383758

I am certainly up for better ideas if someone has any ...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] thimiost:
htc sucks!!!!

bigtime stupid @ssh@@@
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DaVince:
Just think that one day, everybody at HTC will surely die one by one. That is a promise. (If that would make you feel better.. :D)

Regarding drivers, all we can do is hope for those sedna drivers to be ported. If at all possible. Otherwise, there's not much we can do. Nobody can do anything, the lawsuit bluff we did was called.. and HTC is now laughing at us for being the morons that gave them the $1.08 Billion profit they now enjoy.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgottlieb:
1.08 Billion? Small potatoes compared to ExxonMobile...