yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kapollo:
Hmmmm are you pretty shure you ware using the 29'th jully drivers in comparison, because I would swear that it provided the D3DMDEVCAPS_HWRASTERIZATION and

D3DMDEVCAPS_HWTRANSFORMANDLIGHT (true in both cases that is)

run the lights demo, take a look at the windows that pop up they should say enabled or true and using video memory.

Another case is that the emonster driver is sw (as far I understand). Just because it has both eralier mentioned caps set to false, caps don't explicitly mean that it is hw driver (unless both, or only rasterization are set to true), for instance the D3DMDEVCAPS_SPECULAR cap on emonster is set to true, but I seems to me that the whole point of using the T&L unit is to do just such things (and more ofcourse) and it is unlikely that the imageon has a special dedicated specular shading unit separate from T&L.

cheers,

pawel
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rfarnell:
It does, I just didn't include it again because it was in the quote [and I forgot to include it :P ]

Will edit it to avoid confusion.

Rob
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] herg62123:
the s11ht is japan version of kaiser. the s12ht is japan version of touch dual. i have that ship rom of s11ht but not a s12ht ship rom.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] TheWebMachine:
All tests with exception to the text work well at about 51-53 FPS on my AT&T Tilt running HTC_WWE_3.28.405 ("baked:" 18MB PP). It does not work in landscape at all.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pchasco:
I am eagerly awaiting compatibility with my Vogue...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moegdaog:
Does anybody understand why i have coreplayer 1.2.2 the newest version, a PAY version of what tcpmp used to be and i still am getting choppy and sluggish fps when i watch avis and mpegs? i have the drivers installed they work , all the test work fine....but my videos are very choppy...youtube plays fine but the other videos dont...can somebody help me get my settings right.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] TheWebMachine:
I also have the latest version of CorePlayer and have no video problem at all. This was even before my recent installation of the video drivers (which did speed up my camera's responsiveness, btw).

I shall list off my video related settings in hopes that something may help you. I did do a bit of tweaking back when I originally purchased CP to get the video as smooth as possible.

Video

---

Output: QTv Display

Quality: High

Smooth Zoom: Only for 50%

Buffering

---

Normal: 2400KB

Underrun: 70%

Audio: 64KB

Advanced (only relevant & checked options listed):

---

Prefer lookup tables over arithmetic

Override AVI timing based on audio

Soft-drop tolerance: 0.055 sec

Hard-drop tolerance: 0.700 sec

If your signature is up-to-date, I'm not familiar with the pros and cons of your particular ROM so I am not of much help with that part of it. Like I said, it runs just fine on my Tilt, HTC_WWE_3.28 ROM with the driver package both installed and not installed. So I'm guessing that the problem isn't necessarily with the driver package, but something with the ROM itself.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Judge584:
Hi,

The latest version of Coreplayer is the 1.2.5 one, not 1.2.2.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] TheWebMachine:
That is correct. I hadn't realized that he stated v1.2.2 when I replied. For the record, I am running v1.2.5. I did check and find that there wasn't much different between v1.2.2 and v1.2.5, just a few slightly updated codecs and other minor fixes. I used v1.0.0 previously, and had no issues with that version on my ROM, either.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] CrArc:
I thought these drivers had no effect on video playback? Although like TheWebMachine noted, my camera seems to have improved somewhat.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
There is reason to believe they shouldn't, and reason to believe they could.

We have always claimed it doesn't, in an attempt to not encourage false hopes. Somewhere in this topic, or perhaps the 'D3D or OpenGL' topic, there are some notes about this.

Normally, a fully operational Direct3D should also somewhat accelerate DirectDraw, as the latter is part of the former since DirectX 7, and DirectX Mobile is based on DirectX 8 (I'm pulling these numbers from my head, it may well be 8 and 9, or 7 and 9, or both 8, you'll have to look it up if you really want to know).

However, the DirectDraw included on these devices (which are currently not replaced by the HTC-CA drivers) don't seem to use Direct3D. But you should take note that we have not properly investigated this.

Also, the camera application uses yet another technology, GX (aka GAPI aka GAPIDraw aka GXDraw), a very "old-skool" WM technology which has since been replaced by DirectX Mobile - though many applications still use it. Whether GX really takes advantage of the accelerated D3D and OpenGL ES currently provided is - like DirectDraw - at this time completely unconfirmed by anything substantial.

I myself have toyed with the idea of creating a GX replacement using OpenGL ES - actually some Linux movie players use OpenGL for playback as well, so it's not unheard of - as GX is a rather simple API. However I have not found the time to do so and I'm unsure if it would significantly speed up anything.

However, there have been many mentions all across this forum that installing the drivers does actually improve both movie playback as well as the camera, so... If this is a placebo effect is as of yet unconfirmed, so you will just have to make up your own mind from what your own eyes see.

All just FYI :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] djboo:
is there anyway of contacting the author of the HTC-CA drivers? I've got my suspicions on who it is, but they are still anonymous right?

i only want to ask one question - how deep did they get? is it just a very well put together cab or something more?

if its more than a cab, if there is source level access - theres one feature id love more than u can imagine:

Virtual resolution. if we can emulate a 480x640 screen that is managed by the 3d hardware (mostly the scaling i presume) then we can un all diamond software with no patching. obviously this is pipedream stuff, but its not impossible. we know we can emulate different resolutions - just look at nyditot - if we can get that at a hardware level rather than a software one, the performance difference would be negligable and the software opened up to us would be amazing.

but as it stands - i dont even know who to ask and i feel just throwing this out into the forum may be a waste of time or even worse, make me look like a newb begging for features that arent possible.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kristoff_sz:
Let's mount Diamond screen, and we are ready to go!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Problem is it would break all other non-480x640 software esp if the software just asks for the default screen metrics. We've already seen how badly current software is at being DPI aware between 240x240, 320x320, rotating the screen, and so on...

I'm pretty sure TF3D actually hard codes screen-res in, but since it's OpenGL it might be easier to just spend some time patching all the well-known API calls to rescale to QVGA, and let OpenGL handle scaling the graphics.

Problem with that is you'll always be a slave to HTC's horrible coding in the long-run.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kartam:
Hello, I'd like to report a small bug in the modded D3D Drivers. More here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=418313
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
New driver package on site...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] stuff:
I love you guys

I can now watch youtube videos perfectly, even in landscape
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tak.japan:
I thought those drivers effects 3D only, i didn't know it improves youtube...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] deuzeff:
All tests except 3D text included in the cab working flawlessly "out of the box" on my Tytn II with Laurentius26 ROM V10 ThrottleLauncher Beta2.

Thanks guys for the hard work!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moto2000:
any word on the new drivers just released?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] eaykoc:
I've ROMeOS 3.5 on my TYTN II and all the test applications in the new driver cab work perfectly..

Thank you guys..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ycavan:
Text3d still is blurred on Romeos v.421 using August 19 drivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Black-Rose:
I've tested some samples of HTC-CA and Samsung.

- without drivers: not working or very slow

- with HTC-CA drivers: almost all samples work, Text3D blurred

- with Samsung Omnia drivers: all samples very good and 3DText is not blurred

The sample of TI D3DMDemo is very good and fast with the Samsung drivers!

I can do that without drivers too... :rolleyes:

I've tested some moevie samples in TCPMP with and without Samsung driver. No difference even the results of the benchmarks (build in option in TCPMP).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] vj4:
all working on l26 v10 throttle with radio in sig no noticible speed differance.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moto2000:
i dont understand these drivers sometimes.

the tests they provide work better with them...

but I dont see any improvement in any real life application usage.

if it doesnt improve phone performance in everyday usage, whats the advantage of these?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ASCIIker:
Text3d still blurred with 19th August package

am running a Tytn 2 with official WM6.1 ROM and the wiki-recommended HardSPL for it (i forget which one)

last driver package used (on the exact same setup) was, well, the one before the 19th August package...:)

all the test apps run exactly the same as before for me but glad to see its working now for ROMs previously reported by users as incompatible

text3d was blurred before for me...it is still blurred in this latest compatibility update...

for those who just replied "it works...thanks", etc etc...does text3d work properly for you?

and the guy with the samsung omnia package...cool stuff man...text3d works for you, i think i'll check out that combination also...will it work on my official WM6.1 ROM?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
It's also blurred on the Diamond, so it's an official driver problem that can be directly blamed on HTC/Qualcomm/ATI.

The Omnia driver can be used to replace ONLY the D3D driver for ANY WM rom since it seems more accurate (to specifications) and slightly faster. It does depend on a fast DirectDraw which only came with HTC WM6.1, I believe.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Black-Rose:
You describe exactly my thoughts!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
These are 3D drivers. For apps that render 3D in either the Direct3D Mobile or Open GL ES APIs.

Nothing more, nothing less.

If an application uses Open GL or Direct3D it will either a) not function WITHOUT the drivers at all or B) it will be substantially faster WITH the drivers.

Anecdotal evidence suggesting that 2D, screen flip, video playback, general responsiveness etc. gets better is purely imagination and wishful thinking. (Some people will still insist that these things are improved, however they are not, I repeat: not.)

For you to see a difference in most "every day" apps we will need:

Updated DirectDraw driver, updated DDI driver and updated GAPI driver.

Maybe we will see those drivers in the future, maybe we won't. Until then this driver is for 3D and only for 3D that uses Direct3D or Open GL.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] -IK-:
Just got round to trying this driver out.

I've downloaded the latest version from the htcclassaction web site, but I try the included D3D demo and get the error 'Could not initialize Direct3D'.

Is this an incompatability error or have I missed out a few steps,

My ROM is the early released Vodafone WM 6.1 ROM.

ROM version: 3.08.161.0 WWE

ROM date: 01/29/08

Is the ROM the problem?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Only 3.28 rom types and later. Mentioned a few times in this thread also.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] -IK-:
Thanks for that...

I'm now downloading the official UK Vodafone 6.1 update released in June, which is a 3.28 version

If anyone missed it and wants it...It's here

http://devicehelp.vodafone.co.uk/v1615upgrade.php
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] -IK-:
Tested and works great...Thanks to all for the great work here

A few questions, that may have been answered but...

The bold text that follows is for self-elected forum expert use only

I did use search without any results. The most cynical anti noob 'experts' among you can respond with either a yes or a no. You could also not respond at all. However, there's no point responding with use search or some other patronising remark because I did search and, and writing such a remark would take up your precious time and I'd hate to do that.

Self elected forum expert text ends... :D

If anyone is still reading... ;)

1) Are we still waiting on hardware that contains a driver that uses accelerated Direct Draw capabilities of the MSM7200 chip, so that it can be ported to Kaiser devices?

(remember experts you can simply answer yes or no if this question is starting to make you feel pissed off by it's noobyness )

2) Can this QuakeGL implementation run on a Kaiser with htcclassaction drivers ( I will test this myself when I get home from work)?

3) In your opinions, is there a possibility that when HTC finally produce a device with an accelerated Direct Draw driver, the underlying hardware will be so far removed from what we are using now, that the driver would have no real relevance to Kaiser hardware?

OR

4) Do you guys believe that the core hardware in the MSM7xxx range will not change that drastically for the foreseeable future?

Thanks to those that respond, and to those that don't but have a sense of humour

Bye :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
It would be nice of course, but not at all likely.

From what I understood by reading the threadhere on XDA: no.

Yes, that will probably be the case.

If they still base devices on the same old MSM7X00 core then there is a very small possibility that they will bother to write proper drivers.

However if and when they do release a media and/or gaming centric device they will probably use a completely different chipset alltogether.

That's my take.

There's quite a huge revolution going on with mobile chipsets. In the coming months we will se chipsets that can provide 3D functionality and in some ways even performance that outclasses the last generation of consoles by quite a bit. (programmable DX9 class shaders, 100+ mpolys/s etc)

Also with multimedia there's a large boom in dedicated hardware for accelerating even 1080p H.264 while still maintaining better battery efficiency then we have today when we play back 240p MPEG4 etc.

Also with Windows Mobile 7 and Google Android around the corner along with these new devices I just can't see anyone spending time and money on writing code and optimizing for an old architecture and an old OS.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] -IK-:
Thanks for the response undac.

To me it seems that the possibility of getting accelerated 2D from the MSM7200 is becoming less likely.

What I don't understand is why the focus has been on getting the accelerated 3D stuff working first when there are no real uses for it (I'm hoping someone will respond with a huge list of software that can make use of accelerated 3D now ;) )

It says on the htcca site that the 3D stuff was just easier to implement, but still, I'm confused by this direction of focus when all that can be run is a few test apps.

By the way I'm not knocking anyone's effort here, and I admire the aspect of just doing something that noone else has done just to see if it works (I used to make Amiga demos in assembly many many years ago :D )

A couple more questions since I'm on a roll...(and I apologise again if this is a noob q)

1) If there are no proper drivers to fully enable the 2D capabilities of the MSM7200, how do we know how capable the hardware actually is in real world use? Is it possible the hardware is lacking in this area compared to older generation architecture.

2) Instead of waiting for this unknown quantity of a MSM7200 based device with full accelerated Direct Draw support, how possible would it be for a group of knowledgable device driver writers to come up with one themselves?

I don't know if the hardware schematic sheets are available, but if they are that would at least be a step in the right direction.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] djboo:
probably because it was available - another device had it, they ported to kaiser. the device had nothing else, they took what they could. better than nout. if the 2d drivers were available to port first, they probably would have been.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] -IK-:
That's a fair assumption...I'm just wondering if that device had an (incompatible with Kaiser) accelerated 2D implementation also, which would then showcase that that MSM7200 is actually capable of good 2D performance.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
As djboo mentioned the files needed for 3D was more "readily" available and easier to implement. If anyone gets their hands on other drivers (DDI, DDraw etc.) then I'm sure someone (most likely Chainfire and crew) will start working on that.

So it's basically just a question of what is feasible at the moment.

3D performance is in many was related to 2D performance. We know that the hardware implementation will boost a vastly superiour fillrate, we know that offloading things to video memory is faster than using main memory etc.

We don't know the exact performance metrics but 2D should be pretty much a cakewalk if properly implemented.

This venue has been explored and thus far no one is willing and/or capable to stand up to the challenge. Large sums of money have been promised, companies specializing in device driver coding have been contacted etc.

Some fairly high level information is known but you would need more to go on and of course programmers who really know what they're doing.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
The 3.28+ WM6.1 appears to be using MSM7200 2D acceleration such as hardware surfaces. However because DirectDraw seems to be implemented on top of DDI, instead of AHI, it may be too many layers between to be efficient and tuned.

Because DDI is the core user interface, it's difficult-to-impossible to develop and debug through it without a real development station or a generally accessible text console. It's like hacking the BIOS of your PC. Can you wait 20 minutes per compile/code-change cycle? It's like moving back to the punch card days.

3D isn't core so it's light years easier to work with it.

It may work if it is actually using OpenGL-ES and not GAPI as another Quake port previously mentioned does. Let us know.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Well, even though several people answered, I'm going to answer as well :)

True, but it's not a lack of willingness, at least from some of us's side. You have to understand that dealing with this stuff costs a LOT of time. It's more of a sport than anything else, and that's coming from me, the guy who right now does least.

Yes, these 3D drivers are a lot easier to do than the 2D drivers. What you are not taking into account here is that a lot of things are learnt from the experience. Do not forget either, that they are easier, that does not mean at all that they were easy. If they were, why didn't you do it? Ignorance is not an excuse in this case. You think anyone involved actually knows how to do this? It's learning by doing!

For a second, take into account that with the real 2D core, every single mistake you make - and there is a lot to do, test, try, etc - most things that are less than 100% perfect, sort-of brick your device and require a hard-reset to get your device operational again (to even boot). No dedicated device driver development hardware is available here. It's like trying to fly to the moon in a canoe!

Possible, yes, likely, no. From what we know about the hardware, all currently available drivers seem to be completely unoptimized. The chipset should be able to perform a lot better than it currently does, even in 3D with the drivers. While we know some of the reasons it is underperforming, it's not by any means a clear cut case.

I don't think anybody is really still waiting for those - it doesn't seem likely that any is forthcoming. Even the Diamond and the Raphael, while significantly faster than the Kaisers, do not seem to make full use of the chipset (I have all 3, and my own tests conclude that, though I must admit they were not done in a scientific matter excluding complete nonsense in my brain)

There is some good news on the 2D side, as some things have been located by the supreme hacker (followers of this thread will know who he is) that may shed some light on things 2D that may

eventually

lead to optimized 2D drivers, but a lot of the picture is still missing, and it may not ever happen.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] -IK-:
Thanks a lot for the explanations and discussions (last 3 guys).

Chainfire, I have no modern day experience of device driver programming (the last things I did was making an Amiga floppy drive play a tune by hitting hardware registers :D ) so I appreciate the effort and work that you and the others put into a project of this complexity.

It's exciting to me...It must be great to be in collaboration on this project learning unknowns about a piece of hardware to better understand it and make better use of it than HTC could or would.

Keep up the fantastic work all of you :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] deuzeff:
Thanks for the explanation Chainfire. Even me I understand what you mean, as a good under-skilled in this field, so thanks ! :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Black-Rose:
For me the question still there: could I better install the Samsung Omnia drivers or the HTC-CA Drivers? In the last HTC-CA driver package did merge the Samsung drivers? Why or why not?

Sorry for my direct question, it looks unfriendly but isn't my intention. You guys do a good job and I'm just a n00b!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kapollo:
Omnia driver is a software driver optimized for the xscale core, so basically it runs a bit faster, than the reference d3d driver on the stock WM6.1 ROM, but still doesn't make use of the hardware accelerator, and thus it can't be merged or combined in any way (at least as far as I understand)

The HTCCA drivers have been hacked/cracked/chopped/patched (on so on) to use hardware, it's not perfect, but usable, and I can imagine how much work it took.

The Omnia d3d should give more compatibility with different sw, but as I've experianced it testing is the best way of be shure :) e.g.Igolf2 does not run on omnia, but runs on stock and HTCCA (btw. runs faster on these)

cheers

Pawel
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jorra:
Isn't there any software that emulate the kaiser chipset on a pc that you can use for 2d driver development to make the process easier/faster? I had a Motorola A1000 before I bought the Kaiser and I had a emulator for developing drivers and testing that worked pretty well...

I didn't use it myself (other than look at it) but had friends that did some amazing things on that device, graphic speed among others.

Sorry for a n00bs stupid questions!