yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ray6:
There could be a possibility that the drivers were left out due to the Broadcom/Qualcomm legal patent issues. I understand that Broadcom won the case and Qualcomm had to meet and comply with certain restrictions as far as shipping the chipset. I think that is also the reason why they took the whole CDMA tech section of their website down for now, because I remember reading that they were not allowed to provide information or support for the chipsets. It could be possible that Qualcomm was allowed to provide the chip to HTC under the condition that HTC would not use the ATI accelerator. Has anyone looked into that?

I got this from the Brew SDK download site.

In order to facilitate Qualcomm's compliance with a U.S. Federal Court injunction ruling dated 12/31/2007, acknowledgement of the following is required from each customer seeking technical assistance or accessing or using any software, documentation or other materials provided on or through this website.

Customer confirms that this support request and/or customer's use of any software, documentation or other materials from this site is for a wireless terminal made, sold and used solely outside the USA if it falls within the following table:

UMTS	Qualcomm will not support for the US:

MSM6275, MSM6280, MSM7200, MSM7200A, ESM6270, ESM7205, ESM7205A

1x/EVDO	If first sold to customer after 5/29/2007, Qualcomm will not support for the US:

MSM6150, MSM6175, MSM6500-90, MSM6500-130, MSM6550, MSM6550A, MSM6575, MSM6800, MSM6800A, MSM7500, MSM7500A, MSM7600

Unless used in the manner prescribed by Qualcomm for use in the US, Qualcomm will not support for the US:

QSC6075, QSC6085, MSM7525, MSM7601, MSM7625, MDM1000, QSD8650, MSM6551, MSM6551A, MSM6801, MSM6801A, MSM6571, MSM7501, MSM7501A
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] lincman:
Maybe sombody should point this out to HTC

I just got this a little while ago in my mailbox but here it is online for those interested. If HTC thinks it is immune from a lawsuit they might want to think again after seeing this from Palm at the following link. You can read the documents here:

http://www.palzasettlement.com/

lincman
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mindbeat:
Nice updates Chainfire!

just want to say that I wrote a review @ a swedish pricesearch called prisjakt.se and wrote about the issue and gave the Tytn II a 3/10 as judgment, some how, this review is gone today,

And there was a review below mine that also mentioned the driverissue, is also gone. Pressure from HTC? this sucks.

Cashed version:

http://www.google.com/search?q=cach...produkt.php?o=208315&hl=sv&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=se

Now:

http://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?o=208315
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hello77:
is upcoming update - is it still coming

remember reading a post from chainfire a couple days back ago of an upcoming update that might be coming that might resolve "some" issues although chainfire did say he really did not know what would be in the update or if it would resolve any issues. However, reading HTC's response as well as recent posts under this thread i wonder if any update is coming. Wondering if anyone knows about update and if still coming....

Right now looks sort of bleak waiting for fix......
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
Qualcomm holds a minority stake in HTC. If it comes to light that HTC flooded the market with deliberately crippled devices to potentially cover Qualcomm's behind, there will not only be civil lawsuits.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Merlin_reloaded:
I'm being rather offtopic here..

but do the OpenGL ES drivers for the Qualcomm chip work fairly flawlessly?

If so, couldn't we just write a simple wrapper for DirectDraw functions, that redirect to the OpenGL ES driver? I'm sure that would be easier than writing a full-blown driver.

Maybe some help from the WINE or Cedega teams would be in order?

Just my $ 2 x 10^-2..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Digitaltigre:
If the lawsuits actually do happen I think the case isn't too bad. It will end up being about expectations right? As in, it could be reasonably expected that the chip advertised as being included would be have it's integral features implemented, no? Didn't HTC imply functionality by means of not explicitly disclosing which features they intended to leave out?

I'm curious about the chipset performance. Do other manufacturers devices which have the same chip, and have it fully implemented, perform really well? I mean to ask, if we do get the drivers is my TyTN II going to kick major ass? If not I'm going to cry myself to sleep. :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hello77:
This is an issue that should be investigated and could be reason HTC is saying the device in not meant to play video (even though we all know the problem is much deeper than just being able to play video).

In general, i still find HTC's response rather shocking as i expected something more like "we are looking into the problem and a fix should be coming ..." as this is what a lot of companies seem to say when they are getting bad publicity. However, if there is some type qualcomm deal where there is sometype of license restriction, it would explain HTC's response; then again who knows the real reason; but is something to think about......still does not get htc off hook as htc did falsely advertise that the tytnii could provide a rich media experience; something we all know is untrue as it cannot even render the screen properly when using the menu or camera, let alone playing a video....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
Any New Yorkers having purchased HTC Qualcomm based devices? I hear there is a fella by the name of Eliot Spitzer who despises corporate collusion and investigates these matters with a passion :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] forcedalias:
You wanna ask the New York Governor to take a break from Governing?! Heh.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
Now that Spitzer is Governor, he leaves those matters to Andrew Cuomo. He's even more aggressive then Spitzer.

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/

EDIT: Here's an example of what Cuomo's done against Dell: http://www.nyagdell.com/

This guy is a fighter and will go to bat against companies that don't honor their promises with consumers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
For gawds sake, somebody in New York drop this guy a line :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Saaaweet! Ok whoever is from NY needs to write this guy a letter about how we are pwned by HTC here =))

Seriously. We could really use person like that.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
And because Cuomo is a person of the State, his office would take this issue up Pro Bono. The Attorney General for a state serves to fight for the rights of their citizens. What happens for residents of New York State will in turn benefit all of us.

This is an All Points Bulletin to ANYONE that is a resident of New York State to contact Attorney General Cuomo.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
we could use some of the money to get the governor a kaiser, then he will understand the slow video playback.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Zyren:
I live in connecticut about an hour away from NY :-/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
And here's some action that Cuomo successfully fought on that I think you guys will really appreciate:

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2007/oct/oct23a_07.html
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doug2873:
Nice...although I usually don't like Democrats who are lawyers (many are ambulance chasers), this looks very promising, and Cuomo is a very good trial lawyer.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Well then somebody drop him a line.

Just to let you guys know, I have a few lines to US class action veteran lawyers in my mailbox... Seriously considering asking them for more details and/or a plan, at least see what they think.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] xTyTN:
check this out:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/23/poll-how-did-htc-mishandle-the-video-driver-controversy/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hello77:
Here is something that HTC is advertising through mobile planet relating to the HTC Touch Dual:

"Its so easy-to-use, quickly select the application, multi-media feature or contact you are looking for. Enjoy your favourite music and movie clips through the integrated media suite"

http://www.mobileplanet.com/d.aspx?i=160159

Please note that HTC provides this advertising to its distributers and, irregardless, is responsible for acts of its agent/distibutors.

HTC has been notified and is aware that the defect exists; however, continues to falsely advertise through its agents/distributers that the phone is for media.

Also, in the states, it appears to me that HTC violates the lanham act for false advertising. The lanham act is a federal law that provides double damages; a selling point to law firms. Something to think about if your an attorney looking at the case or trying to sell the case to an attorney.

I had also brought up the point earlier about the speaker phone issue. I agree its something that needs to be investigated and it might not be appropriate to add things like the speaker issue to the suit at this time. Its just interesting because the defective speaker phone problem flys in the face of what was said by HTC in response to the video problem. Specifically, HTC stated "HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render" What "combination of functionality and connectivity" exceeds not being able to use the speaker phone??? -- At any rate, this is a side issue; but might be issue legally given HTC response???
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] beta_boy:
All.... I just want to now confirm that we WILL be releasing CorePlayer Mobile 1.1.3 for PocketPC later today 1/24. Our initial QA has gone great and all that is left to do is to get everyone internally to sign off on it and for me to press the publish button.... so likely within the next 6-8 hours.... I do a follow-up post when its out.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] MickyMax:
French : http://www.mobinaute.com/92064-htcclassaction-problemes-performances-smartphones.html
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Alemaker:
Thx,

Will be patiently looking forward to it. :)

Alemaker
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mihyes:
I've made sure that WM team is directly notified about this mess. They should know about it by now (if something didn't go wrong).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dsyro:
@ Chainfire

I would like to say how much I appreciate it (and I'm sure that I speak for thousands of HTC device owners) that you have devoted your time to take up a fight against that very arrogant, borderline fraudulent, company.

And I'm impressed at the professionalism of it all, you have managed to create quite an impact. It's thanks to you that HTC had to issue a statement (infuriating by the content of it even more people along the way). It's a visible blow to a big corporation and I really stand in admiration at how well you've managed this.

As far as I'm concerned however it is time to file suit against them for the following reasons:

1. HTC's statement sounds quite definite so hopes for a fix should be declared officially dead

2. It will be a perfect escalation to all the recent uproar which has acquired enough momentum to be taken to the next phase

3. It will be a firm response to those who think that a class action is an empty threat

4. Coreplayer will be released any minute now, so users who just care about video playback might just let go and forget about the whole thing

My request to you is that you set up a lawsuit fund so that people can start backing the suit financially. I have donated 40 euros for the adwords campaign but I would rather it went into a lawsuit fund if you decide to create one. If you do I will donate more.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rohanmaini:
Well said... I would like to add i just read on another thread that HTC is planning to stop production for the Kaiser(not authenticated)... so I guess they probably are not planning any driver release... I would definitely put up some money to take this forward to the next logical step...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cbailey:
It states on the site:

'Which devices are effected by this?'

It should really read 'affected'
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] christopherwoods:
Well, this is fascinating. I'd known about the ATi problems in my Hermes, but although I played with a Kaiser in the T-Mobile shop back in December, I didn't realise that the poor performance was due to the same chipset driver issue (I just marked it down to random chance and maybe something in the ROM crapping out playback which'd be resolved by a software tweak).

3G playback of BBC News - which does work on my Hermes, with occasional stuttering (but on the whole, very well) - was absolutely dismal over the 3G connection on the Kaiser... And that was straight out of the box after its initial configuration, totally vanilla, and using an HSDPA 3G connection.

The reality distortion field began to wear off then... When I saw the TomTom vids, that tipped it for me. After I'd read all the recent stuff in the blogosphere, including the latest remarks from HTC, I decided to phone my mobile network (T-Mobile UK) and ask them directly about this.

I spoke to someone very friendly and helpful who confirmed that T-Mobile do actually know about this issue, and apparently not all handsets are affected (I contested this and mentioned my trialing of a handset not even a month ago, to which he sounded a little disappointed - management saying one thing to the lower tiers, and then doing something else?) - but he did insist that a fix is being worked on, if albeit slowly, but he couldn't tell me when a fix would be coming to end-users, as he and his colleagues only had the 'global handbook' which contained a list of all acknowledged problems and some vague information regarding fixes.

It did make me wonder whether a fix was actually being quietly rolled out in the new ROM builds as an in-the-wild test from HTC, but he couldn't confirm that.

He did say something very interesting, though - if I was to buy a Vario 3 from them, and then find that the video problem existed on the handset, I could send it back and get a replacement - and I can only guess that this would be doable any number of times until I got a working device. Coupled with his statement that not all handsets are now affected, I can only hope that TM have somehow managed to extract some kind of fix for this problem, and it's slowly making its way to production units.

That said, I'm not going to hold my breath for the time being... The conversation was quite interesting, though!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Walgar:
Kaiser alternatives

Hi, I am new to posting here.

I've been watching all this here since a couple of weeks as I planned to purchase two Kaisers.

However, I am holding my money until I see the conclusion of all this.

Since I didn't buy them already, I can wait to find alternatives to the Kaiser.

Of course, I know that most of you already own Kaisers, but I had an quick idea on what can put some more pressure on HTC to step into the hardware-acceleration features.

Yesterday, I contacted i-Mate regarding the forthcoming Ultimate 9502 (later this year), which is using Qualcomm MSM7200 @ 400 MHz. The support person told me that they have performed successful tests with the hardware-acceleration and that the Ultimate 9502 will have hardware-acceleration drivers.

If HTC does not release hardware-acceleration drivers for the Kaiser, the i-Mate Ultimate 9502 will certainly be a Kaiser killer device. Same logic applies to all other HTC MSM7200-based devices.

So, to put pressure on HTC, let's show them what competiton is doing with their MSM7200-based devices! Let's find out which devices (current and close future) make use of the MSM7200 hardware-acceleration. Maybe, have some video clip comparison between different MSM7200-based devices from different manufacturers. Same hardware, different software. This will in fact show that all this is only and clearly about software!!!

Great hardware is nothing without good software...

For HTC, the key driver is sales (money). What can affect their benefits is competition.

So let's show them what the competition is doing...

Just my 0.02$

Best regards!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
Show them numbers ... I would say.

Chainfire, is it possible to add somekind of poll ?

For example that can show how many people are upset ...

How many people would not buy HTC product anymore (or at least consider to not buy) ...

Then multiply the votes by $500 USD (as mid price of their next HTC phone price, or use Kaiser price) ... and present it with big bold red text ... that HTC would lost those money (business).

Compare to spend $ on development cost to build the correct drivers ....

Multiply the number more because we will also spread the word to NOT RECOMMEND HTC products!

Yeah, those management people love numbers especially money. Show them how their decision is really bad in terms of business opportunities.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rfarnell:
HTC to include high-res video support in handsets

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/24/htc_class_action_response/

Doesn't really help the people that have the current devices does it.

Rob
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] klipper:
Petition

Almost 7000 (12 to go )
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] swiftgs:
maybe there is hope

maybe there is some hope, yesterday I got a tip on www.htcdriver.com a new device from i-mate will be released, and guess what, WM6 an MSM 7200

http://www.imate.com/support/specs/SpecSheet_9502.pdf

take a look, on performance it is absolute a Kaiser killer i think, but maybe someone can rip this driver....

cheers
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jlebeane:
Wow do you guys know were elvis is at? How about the second gunman from the grassy knoll? Are they together? Are they in love? Is George Bush there love child? This has been a well know fact even before the tilt came out. There are tons of people who have not upgraded to the tilt due to the fact the 8525 blows it away speed wise. But because the art form of lawsuits is the new American past time you can sue anyone for anything these days. For anyone who has already purchased a tilt or who is going to purchase a tilt this is not going to affect you in the least bit. This will sit in its infancy stage for at least a year. Then if it proceeds from there, litigation for another year maybe two. After that, another year maybe two before anything is even done about it. Everyone will have done moved on to two or three other phones. Claims are made all the time in advertising like the most powerful, or the best, or the strongest, and crap like that. And all they have to say to legeally cover there butt is compared to other models in this price range, based on the software that they provide, along with any added features. That yes this phone is the most powerful phone on the market. And guess what, there covered. All this petition is going to do is get htc to consider using better chipsets in there phones. Which in turn is going to jack up the price of their phones even more. But htc like every major electronic company use cheaper and sometimes inferior parts in order for unit price control. Allowing for a cheaper retail price on their phones. Its the way the world works.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] donatom3:
You have really read nothing about this situation, have you. The chipset they are using is probably one of the most advanced Mobile Phone chipsets right now. Graphics wise it's above a Nintendo DS and a few polygons away from being on par with a PSP. It's not cheap hardware. The problem is they advertised the hardware they put in the device but aren't using anything to take advantage of it which is infact crippling the device.

This is very similar to what verizon did with the 710 and bluetooth. Guess what. Verizon lost that lawsuit.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] briggs81:
That's some good relevance, up there!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Sane:
There really could be something wrong with the chip and its not able to perform as advertised...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
I agree with a press release from HTCClassAction. I think it's something that should be done. We need to give a public statement much like HTC did to us.

If they don't respond, then it IS time for a class action suit.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] corleno:
You can see a considerable difference when trying to Play Enslave or Ace pocket PODZ

I miss playing those games were my fourites :(

even my O2 mini used to give me a better frame rate when screen is clicked

its a pity having such a fast device but cannot render this.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] donatom3:
Which then brings up the possibility that Qualcomm knew there is something wrong with the chip and using their part ownership in HTC to hide it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] smads:
I'm on T-Mobile UK and bought mine from store. I have to say that the BBC News streams beautifully (have just checked again now) both in 'windowed' mode and 'Full screen' - This was, at least for me, better than I saw off my Vario 2 (Tytn/Hermes).

I wonder if T-Mobile have 'fixed' mine :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
And how do people know? It is probably due to this community rasing awareness. I never owned an 8525, and when I went in to demo the phone, the store did not have an 8525 for me to do any side by side comparisons. As it stand, I see no difference in performance over my 8125, which is 2 generations old.

So we should just expect this poor treatment from companies? You don't find this to be an alarming trend? We just just expect to be disappointed? We should expect customer support to be of no help? We should expect poor performing features? When do you start drawing the line?

As far as I am concerned, HTC saying the TYTN II is "More powerful than any mobile communications device you've seen before" when it doesn't even measure up in most respects to the model it replaced is a strong enough arguement to put my $$ towards a suit. Does it have more features? Yes, but before you dismiss this as fluff, go look up powerful in the dictionary. It is clearly not true. If they said was it had more features, then we would have no point, but I think that strictly speaking, a reasonable person would have to agree the statement they have made is both misleading and false.

But I think enough already, let's get on with the proceedings. I will put up $$ for taking this to the next level if someone shows me where to contribute. I will also offer what limited time I have to test some things on my Tilt vs my old 8125, such as GPS rendering, camera viewfinder response, video playback if it will help the cause.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 1stPeregrine:
#570

Excellent thoughts! I agree completely.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikulec:
Just a little question: does anybody send some info to HTC about the site?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Kalwren:
Agreed. 100%.

This is my first PDA phone, and I'm upset that it doesn't have video drivers. It has every other feature that I was looking for, but it's lacking in (to me) one of the most important aspects of a Pocket PC.

Video performance.

It works fine when I spend my time converting all my favorite videos, but I really don't like spending the few years I have left on such a waste of time.

Just make it work. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] xmoo:
Nice website bro, I say sue those *****es.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] elrooster:
Good job, well done.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Infornography:
Just got an email back from consumerist.org they say they'll look into it.

Can this thread get a sticky?