yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] giojoe:
Bump and Remember

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chainfire

........

a) Has anyone contacted that pitbull New Yorker? He may prove to be crucial to our cause. If not, I suggest someone takes it upon themselves to make it their personal mission this happens.

.........

Keep in mind we probably need one of you US citizens to eventually spearhead this, so argue amongst yourselves as to whom that will be. But let's get some info from them first (I suspect these lawyers will throw away many of our tech stuff and throw it on misadvertising - a good one is first advertising the multimedia, then saying it's not meant that way, and the CorePlayer showing it is indeed possible, that's a good angle if you ask me)

.........

[

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

We need more people starting to contact laywers over there in the US
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 4Site:
Okay people lets get serious, as things stand this going to court seems even more probable than ever before i think we need to start being more organised and a bit more professional.

A few things...

Anyone who would like to be a participant in the Class Action, should state so in a specific thread so as a third party supposedly acting on our behalf doesn't contaminate witnesses or the case.

WE SHOULD create an entity for the people who would like to partake in the class action, so we have an identity. Consumer's Against The Corporation of HTC perharps (C.A.T.C.H.) or similar.

All communications with HTC or the Media should be through this entity and maybe surveyed through an attorney. Common sense says a thousand people emailing anyone who will listen and plenty who wont with allsorts of unproven (in a court of law) accusations will definitely work against us. Instead we have an entity with which to make our voice heard correctly and legally without facing a defamation or slander case.

The entity makes a dosier of our case, backing up with evidence where possible any accusations we make towards HTC and sends this to a bunch of predetermined class action representatives for their opinion and then chooses one that suits our terms as legal representative for us. The legal representative informs us of who can make the class action claim and what remedies would be open to us and what paths we could take.

The entity send an official press release informing the media and HTC of our intentions and our position

PLEASE SEE THIS

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1847975&postcount=570

We set up a fund for the class action and decide whether we should use the driver bounty for this use or as a back up, or keep it separate. (I personally pledge a minimum of $100, depending on required funds and level of donations.)

We consult what steps to take and what to prior to doing it and anyone who contradicts this stated as unassociated with us.

Basically we have a pretty strong claim i think however we need safeguards to unintentionally do something that would weaken our position or even leave us in a position where we can't sue because someone has talked about the details of the case over with a senior manager at HTC using emails.

What does everyone else think?

Please lets behave mature and get HTC where it hurts...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nick Collision:
Doesn't that entity already exist in the htcclassaction website? That is the best compilation for information about our issues. I'm not saying Chainfire be the spearhead for contacting legal counsel, but he HAS done a stellar job compiling and indexing the relevant info, and HAS submitted press releases. His work is sober, mature, accurate and very well written.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doug2873:
NO ONE DONATE MONEY FOR THE LEGAL CAUSE. Class actions do not cost ANY money upfront...I talked to my dad about this (as he has been involved in class action cases multiple times), and if a law firm is willing to pick up the case there should be NO upfront fees for us, the class, to pay.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nick Collision:
Generally that is true. Besides, I think I can speak for all of us when I say we are not seeking monetary damages as end users of our devices. What we seek is a fix to make our devices perform as advertised. If a legal action can force HTC into providing that fix, then fine. If the courts decide punitive damages are worthy then sure, most of those monetary usually end up in the attorneys pockets anyway.

What we need is people to step up and actually contact legal counsel, expose them to the information gathered here (which is best summarized at the htcclassaction.org site) and proceed.

I myself work with a few attorneys, but it would take hours of thier and my own time to to explain the issues even with the excellent help of Chainfires site. Down here in southern Alabama, USA, most lawyers are still relative Luddites.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] takeda240:
so what would be the pros and cons of me trading this thing in for an iphone ? i bought the dam thing because on paper it was supposed to be way better than the iphone lke how i could install all these programs thanks to it being WM and how it had micro sd HC and it has HSDPA and one of the best att cameras 3mp ! well hm.... the camera is to godaweful slow to realkly take any decent pictures and lots of said programs cant display properly .... and whats the point of hsdpa speed internet if the page takes longer than dial up to display? .... (the initial question wasnt sarcasm i really am considering i just want to be dissuaded) what if we get the drivers somehow? then ill be the idiot with the iphone garbage and everyone else with a zippy flashy as avertized kaiser !! :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
Deleted as stated below
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
Would you mind sending the full e-mail content to me in a PM ?

I have big issues to accept that the NR1 of HTC is replying directly to one customer and again

The guy lives in an Ivory Tower and has 3 persons for P&R. not one e-mail you send goes through directly. (and his mail address you suggested seems not to be correct neither as .tw is his home-base.

IF your email and reply is genuine, it might be added value.

Honestly, I think you're making up a. If not,sorry for my thinking, though you SHOULD have forwarded this response from Peter Chou to Chainfire already.

ALL responses from HTC should be consolidated for any further actions
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ray6:
PM sent to Chainfire even though I already posted Peter Chou's response in this thread.

You are free to think whatever you want. You do not have to accept anything and I could care less.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] amruths:
Check This Out

HTC chimes in on video driver controversy

Posted Jan 22nd 2008 4:29PM by Chris Ziegler

Filed under: Software, HTC

So there's been a relatively weighty grassroots effort the past few weeks to convince HTC that there's something horribly flawed with its Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices -- essentially that video acceleration isn't nearly as well off as it could be because the company isn't taking advantage of the chipset's ATI Imageon circuitry. HTC has weighed in on the hullabaloo today, and in short, the news isn't good for anyone hoping to get a software update out of the deal: "HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video. These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most smartphones and enable a variety of audio and video file formats," reads the official response, in part. Furthermore, the company has officially confirmed that Imageon drivers are not in use on the affected devices, but that it "plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support." To be totally fair, HTC never promised Imageon acceleration to begin with -- but it's a shame that we'll apparently be looking at buying new hardware to get it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 4Site:
Sorry if i was misunderstood, everyone here appreciates to the max all the hard work, effort and time Chainfire has put into this movement.

I more than the next man would completely appreciate him being in the heart of anything that comes out of this but I thought we should create a new entity to represent us that could use HTCClassAction.Org as its e-base, the advantage of this would be that we've drawn a line under anything that has happened previously with e-mails flying left, right center that could jeopardize a case. I think it's definitely better to have one big voice instead of a million small voices as the case seems to be at the moment.

If HTCClassAction.org is to be that entity then we should maybe draft a statement to send out to a few established class action attorney's just asking for clarification about who can be in that class action, who can initiate it and how we would go about dealing with this.

And then we could then draw up a list of people who would be eligible and willling to partake in any class action. If its a substantial number then it would put authority to anything HTCClassAction does.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
GREAT ! My thoughts were wrong and I said sorry already. I would never have thought that the nr1 from HTC would respond personally towards a few of you in a total other tone and manner than HTC's CA and Legal Dep's press release.

Good you posted it to Chainfire.

Respect.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NewForce:
First, no offence please...

I've strongly believed that, even the entire world of HTC community personnel who facing the same problem would launch a lawsuit against HTC nothing would happen.

Why?

(Let us start to imaging...thing maybe happened like below, just maybe...)

As we all or those good in law/legal action knows, it will take lots of effort in and time collecting all HTC devices victim information before you can really launch a lawsuit against them. After that the lawsuit need to be accepted by the district court Judge. The trial will then took place 1~2 or maybe 3years for the 1st hearing, defend on how heavy is the court schedule, and then the 2nd...3rd...4th hearings....

And at the end you know what?

The Judge found that,

There's not concrete evident that HTC decided to cheat its consumer by releasing an incomplete device to the market. Therefore the verdict will be, HTC is be free from any claim against it and is to be discharge from this court.

You'll see, before appealing the case to Supreme court for hearing, the time of 3 to 4years has passed... anyone want more hearing?

I've already loose confidence in Taiwan techno company/product... by just look at their current Presi... (we all know who it is:p) where all of us can find words is to be twisted and turned, just over the night.

:mad::(:eek:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Ok I just came back from being away for two days, I will try adding all the new information to the site ASAP, but also still in the progress of KISSing the site (also partly in preperation for the lawsuit). However, I also have pressing business to attend to (even on sunday).

There are currently 3 class action lawsuit veteran lawyers that have contacted me in the last week, I have not contacted them back yet (should've, lack of time). We still do not have a point man to ultimately handle this in the US though.

More later

Note: Information friggin' overload, stop talking, people! :P
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rsh55:
My apologies in advance for not having read every post in this thread if the following link has already been posted.

As an attorney this press release woud seem to create a liability to HTC more than the product spec sheets and implies to me that the imaging hardware is in fact incorporated on the chip.

Please read the last paragraph.

http://www.htc.com/press_room/03-press-070905.htm
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doug2873:
Since you aren't from the US I would not expect you to understand the legal system here, but in a civil suit (not criminal) all that has to happen is that a majority of the jury needs to find that HTC was selling a defective product. Most likely HTC would not be stupid enough to take this to trial because since the majority of people that sit on juries in the united states are complete morons, all they will hear is that consumers were being ripped off by a company, and the consumer will win. How do you think Cuomo got that $1 billion settlement from Verizon?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
And for us, we'd just ask that in addition to financial reperations for HTC's misleading of consumers, that they develop and release the drivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] CrysDark:
I see most of you don't understand the purpose of such a lawsuit. The point is to force HTC to spend gobs of money on lawyers, so much so that it would be cheaper for them to just develop the driver than to spend money going to trial. The plaintiffs side in a class action expends no money once they have obtained legal council. If this were to go to trail HTC could end up spending literally millions of dollars on attorneys & legal fees to fight this action.

HTC is liable in this case as well. From press releases stating video acceleration to video proof of an inferior product. I am surprised you have only had 3 lawyers contact you Chainfire.

Just a little education.

Does anyone have the HTC product roadmap, are there going to be any more devices utilizing this chipset that may come with a driver later on?

Also would this issue be solved by the upcoming core player release, maybe at least we have hope for the future?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NewForce:
Oh i see...

You mean, if there is any legal action against any company in the States,

a surely 99.9% win to consumer, because the juries is on consumers side?

Am I right this time? ;)

:eek: wah businessman must be having a hard time in the States, even for a single mistake they did... but is good news to the consumer. I like this :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Blowfish64:
Mistakes are one thing. Lies are another. It's the inherent distrust of consumers towards big corporations here that keep them honest. And when they aren't, they pay for it. We aren't here to cater to companies.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tyeo098:
http://www.netdisaster.com/goff.php?mode=god&lang=en&url=http://htc.com/

God help us

:D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
This is is contradiction with:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
This is is contradiction with:

A review on p12 of the Feb-March edition from "Smartphone & Pocket PC" where the Tilt was under a closer loop.

2 points to share;

Literally stated: "...MSM7200 processor (clocked at 400 MHz ) from Qualcomm...has all the necessary circuitry build in. In fact, the processor also can provide VGA video out and irDA - features that HTC chose to leave out of the Tytn II versions"

The full review gave a 8.3/ 10, though "speed" only received a 0.5 0n 1 point, which is the lowest score. So far for "great performance".

After all this debate, IF it can be proven that HTC let his customers believe that the MSM 7200 would carry all functionalities; we do have a case to stand on. I guess I am not the only one here who would offer his other cheek to HTC no?

Chainfire, fire whenever you want. I put 500 USD aside if this goes to court.

A matter of showing my support.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rohanmaini:
Put me down for $100.... if we ever go this way...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ach2:
Just posted this (post #93) - maybe it's a way to get some free fighting funds :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
I thought a class action WAS free...what's this about giving money???:confused::confused::confused:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
As far as my information goes so far, yes the class action lawsuit will probably be free. There's bound to be a few surrounding costs though, I'm not sure about those. In any case, as long as we don't find ourselves in position where funds are required, I don't know how much sense it makes to collect money.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] p51d007:
As much as I would like to see a driver for the tilt/tyan II, the only ones who really benefit from a class action suit are the lawyers involved. 99% of the "money" ends up going to them.

I would just like to see the driver speed up the screen refresh.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] forcedalias:
Keep it up

Chainfire,

A couple of Engadget articles missing from the site.

#4 http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/25/htc-further-responds-to-video-driver-issue-will-improve-future/

#5

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/28/htc-kaiser-fans-cough-up-over-5-000-for-homebrew-video-drivers/

Plus, here's some php to keep the signature count up to date:

<?
$fp = fopen('http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?tytn2vid', 'r');
while (!feof($fp)) $html .= fread($fp, 1024);
fclose($fp);
preg_match('/([0-9]*) Total Signatures/', $html, $total);
echo $total[1];
?>

Keep fightin' the good fight!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
In the latete press release, the very last sentence reads...

"To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become."

However, HTC promoted the idea by omitting any type of spec concerning video playback, and by highlighting these chipset capabiliites in the SEPTEmber press release. I think this is pretty clear, together with a resounding expectation that drivers normally come bundled with hardware on virtually any other computer.

So HTC set up the condition to make this inference, and did nothing to advise customer's otherwise. I think it is only a matter of bolstering our case with some stats on hom often drivers are NOT bundled with hardware (suspect this is pretty low). As far as evidence goes, no one has yet to turn up any piece of evidence that HTC would NOT be utilizing the well publicised strenghts of the chipset.

This is perfectly clear in my mind. If HTC wanted customers to follow the advice they suggest above, they should have made it clear when they put out the products, and when they touted their use of the chipset, not after they have recorded record profits on the sale of millions of units. It doesn't help that standards on specifying product features are weak, but there is abosolutely no mention of any specs on video playback on the HTC site outside of video calling. Is one to assume then that is does not play video? What about audio? They are specificed for ringtones, but is M4v supported? What about Ogg Vorbis? You tell me?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
Hmmm...!

Makes ya wonder!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Couldn't agree more
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
That's how it is :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Hornet331:
it's a really good thing i didnt bought the Kaiser/Polaris when it was first available, its distressing that HTC thought they can get thought which such a thing, especial when you look at the LG KS20.

The gui is far more responsive than on the kaiser, just from watching different videos. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syd05ntvxmE just compare the scrolling @0:25 with that on the Kaiser youtube movie... like day and night.)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] spellshaper:
Just want to inform you about situation in our country. I have tried to contact serveral big web servers about mobile phones, but not respond from any of them. Anyway other Czech server bring first (as far as I know) info about this problem:

http://palmare.idnes.cz/nova-htc-a-...fony.asp?c=A080127_213825_chytre-telefony_ram

so you can put it on website (language is Czech).

I am also trying to translate all important news from htcclassaction and/or this forums to Czech and post it on http://mobilforum.mobilmania.cz/ (forum belongs to one of he biggest website about mobile phones in our country). Here is direct link for ppl interested (eg. from Czech R. or Slovakia):

http://forum.mobilmania.cz/viewtopic.php?t=46464

Also I want to say that its not easy, because when I bring something to these forums I am called "stupid teenager", "dummy" and something like that. In global I want to say, in our country this problem isnt known (much) and I think its similar in many other countries. Every mention of this problem is called "gutter" and topic starter (me :) ) called by every possible swear-word you can imagine.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
The only explanation I can think of is they pulled a fast one off the hype generated by the iPhone. I remember the headlines as if it was yesterday, carriers were in a panic to find competing devices and HTC was able to answer their call on a whim. I guess we now know how they managed to do it. It took LG and others 18 months to come up with solid alternatives.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
I think iPhone and Kaiser are in totally different target markets.

iPhone is for kids/parties/pictures/music/entertainment.

Kaiser/other similar PDAs are for business/scheduling/outlook integration/email/corporate contacts management/etc.

I mean I can see people just being people (stupid that is) and getting the most expensive phone not even looking at what that phone is and what it's for.

Besides.. just my opinion, but I think that iPhone is a regular cell phone with a big screen that costs $500. I'd say the real price should be around $150.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
What you think the iPhone and Kaiser are or are not is irrelevant. I'm saying HTC were able to quickly flood the market with millions of these Qualcomm based devices when no one else could and headlines touting each model as the next "iPhone killer".