yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Kalwren:
So I've read a lot of posts...

A lot of them say "Yes, please give us drivers! We're your customers and we deserve them!"

Some of them say "Why can't you live with it, it's not supposed to be a multimedia powerhouse!"

Mostly, I was "Whatever. I hope it gets fixed, but I found a work-around." (That cost me an extra $30...)

...and then while I buying some .mp3s on Amazon.com and came across this:

http://www.amazon.com/HTC-P4550-II-Smartphone-Unlocked/dp/B000W09N9W/ref=pd_rhf_f_t_cs_3

You bet your ass, for more than my monthly rent I WANT VIDEO DRIVERS.

$926?

USD, $926. In the US, we're overcharged and over priced for everything that we do. We're "consumers". So you betcha, I feel we have a right to a FULLY FUNCTIONAL DEVICE. No exceptions.

To those of you that say "live with it", say: Go buy an analog phone.

I prefer the digital age. :)

Seriously though - even with the discount through my service provider - this is an expensive device. I expected better.

It does everything I want it to do, with the exception of the damn video and gaming performance. This is my first HTC device, and I won't be buying another one unless HTC fixes this most serious issue. (Most serious issue? Even if they consider it not important - I do - and to me it directly relates to the company's integrity).

Do you think that I will EVER buy a tire from Firestone? For those of you that missed it or are not in the US: (http://www.firestone-tire-recall.com/pages/overview.html). The funny thing is, they blamed the consumer. The most amusing thing? This isn't the first time this happend in the companies history. But no, I'm never buying their product, ever. I might be one of those customers that neglect to properly inflate my tire and God forbid I kill myself or someone else on the freeway because my tire was a few pounds low on pressure.

=)

Take what you want, leave the rest. :)

...whew. Extreme, I know. However, it's the comparison of what a customer should be able to expect and the whole "caveat emptor" aspect.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
Great site Chainfire,

My suggestion:

- Add a specific page about how the HTC Kaiser (or other affected devices) are advertised by HTC (or phone network). Screenshot + URL will be good. So, reader will be able to see what are their promises (about multimedia experience, performance, etc.).

In short, about misadvertising.

Maybe if there is technical detail about the "performance" Qualcomm chip itself (you know, ... X thousands polygons, frame per seconds etc. etc.).

This is very important information, so reader will understand why we raised this issue this far.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
guys,

Another important suggestion is to add a link to http://www.htcclassaction.org/ into your own website front page.

Use keywords "HTC Kaiser"

This will certainly help the Google pagerank for the site.

PS: I am not a good web dev, this just came out of a blink. Please suggest else if you have something better.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
A misadvertising page is a good idea, I'll look into it.

Again, I request you submit this page to all mobile/news sites you know. And don't forget to Slashdot it (button on the 'home' page)! If we manage to get on Slashdot, the sky is the limit.

As for the so many drawing operation per second, this is listed on the "drivers in detail" page.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] FloatingFatMan:
A good video example would be comparing the performance of TomTom against an older device such as the Magician. I don't have it installed on my old Magician anymore; but when I did, on corners that old device performed really smoothly. My Vario III is as jerky as all hell.

Hmm... Might reinstall it on the Magician to show you, when I get chance. Unless someone has an old Magician with it still on there... Might shut up the "it's not a media device" naysayers too, as they sure as hell can't deny it's not designed to run TomTom!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Hmm I haven't noticed anything weird with TomTom, but then again I have never had a device that runs TomTom before :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] forcedalias:
I did come across a thread a while back, people complaining of random location update intervals. Not sure if anyone linked the problem to the display drivers or if it's genuinely a GPS issue.

Anyway, submitted a tip to Engadget if that helps.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] FloatingFatMan:
That actually has nothing to do with it. Try it in demo mode, playing at 100% speed, so there's NO reading of the GPS involved to slow things down more. On the Magician (which has to use an external bluetooth GPS), it's smooth; on the Kaiser, it's jerky as all hell.

I'll try to get in reinstalled on my old Magician and get a video comparing the two. Might be a day or two though.

Actually, I think the best way with these performance videos is to show a side by side comparison with either older device, or a same spec device from a different manufacturer. People would be able to see the problem much more clearly then.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] phan10m:
I've done the slashdot and also dugg it on www.digg.com
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
Can you imagine nVidia, without disclosing it, shipping millions of product without drivers? Unsucker yourself indeed :mad:

In their haste to supply carriers with iPhone competitors, HTC has neglected consumers with these expensive, unoptimized devices. It all started with the Mogul and sadly it seems their latest device suffers the same fate.

Congrats to Chainfire and all persons involved. I'm sure a lot of work went into it, but now it needs legs. I am pledging 50$ towards an official press release announcing this initiative. If that doesn't get HTC's attention, nothing will.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Hmm, couldn't find it on digg :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Thanks, but actually I made that entire site in about 4 hours ;)

I have no experience with press releases though...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Yeah those kind of videos would be best, but so far nobody has made any - and I don't have extra devices.

We just got posted on Tweakers.net !! - the biggest dutch techhead site.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
@all: I youtubed two videos showing utterly slow scrolling thru my programs folder. They are basically the same but made with two different phones. The second one is better IMO.

Links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cspRW2jzNrk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgfL227gmik

@Chainfire: You might want to add links to them (or at least to the second one) to the site.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] FloatingFatMan:
I posted up on the Neowin tech forums about this issue too. For those not familiar with it, Neowin is a rather large and well known technology news site.

Hopefully one of their newshounds will pick up on the thread and post it to their front page.

Linky
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Blowfish64:
Please kill yourself and save future generations from you inbred stupidity. Thanks.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] potpeye:
I agree with post #570 time to deliver the final blow. Then after all is clear about what is wrong and nothing is done move foward with CLASS ACTION. But the faster the better while we still have media momentum.

To all you thinking this is too far or won't help or whatever.

As a consumer when i buy a product knowingly or not and get cheated knowingly or not I want my shot at justice wrong or not. This is why we have a legal system so they can decide who is wrong or right. I want my shot at what i believe is a wrong doing by HTC.

Regardless of the outcome of a Class action we will come out on top. Cause no matter how long it takes till something happens we still have our Tilt fix or not, HTC isn't going to make another penny from majority of us from what they done. Since it a community doing the class action no indiviual is losing time or money it purely a community voice and contribution that would put HTC in a media finacial spin not us. And that what they get if that how they want to play. Charging me 700 bucks for a device with these issues and yeah i just tried my speaker phone today...... person on the other end cant hear me at all but i can hear them loud and clear.

I think many here is at the point that we are ready to find out.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] FloatingFatMan:
TBH, it doesn't even matter so much if we lost any potential lawsuit. OK, we might not get the drivers we want; but HTC will suffer irreparable harm in bad publicity such a lawsuit would raise.

I can live with that. ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
Alright then, I'm glad to see other people agree that a press release would be constructive. The media being informed is one thing, but also millions of people are with these HTC devices and have no idea they are under performing 2 year older models by the same manufacturer.

The cost of a news release dissemination is roughly $500 and perhaps the lawyer person who commented in this thread can be persuaded to review it (for a fee of course) in order to strip any prejudice that might creep it's way into it.

I am reiterating my pledge of $50 :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ray6:
I got a response from a big boss @ HTC.

It looks like we won't be getting a fix. They are sorry to dissapoint users but it would take to much time for them to come up with a solution. It was also mentioned that the devices are not intended for video performance.

Future devices will probably have hardware acceleration.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 94wolfpack:
I had noticed some issues but had read that there was supposed to be an update in the near future so i was being patient ... until i saw the class action page.

I sent customer service a note with my own concerns and here is the response I received

"Hello Kevin xxxxxx,

Thank you for your inquiry about the Sprint Touch.

We are sorry to hear you are having this issue with your device. HTC currently has no additional information or technical support documentation about the Sprint Touch. HTC devices that are sold to cell phone carriers are re branded, reprogrammed and remodeled at their discretion. We do not have any agreements and received no cooperation from Sprint to assist them with device related issues. All updates for your Sprint Touch must come from your cell phone carrier. If you are unsatisfied with your device, and it does not suite your needs we advise you to return the unit to your vendor.

I hope we have answered your question in detail, Kevin. Feel free to contact us again if you have any further questions.

HTC Technical Support

http://www.america.htc.com

http://www.htcwiki.com

http://www.cingular.com/support/

--- Original Message ---

From: "HTC Web Team" <Member@htc.com>

Received: 1/22/08 11:41:36 AM EST

To: <info@htc.com>

Subject: Customer Service Mail From Kevin xxxxxx

Name: Kevin xxxxxx

Phone: 919xxxxxxx

Eamil: kxxxxxx@hotmail.com

Country: United States

SN:

Computer:

Computer Model:

Computer Platform: Others

Computer other:

Description: I bought an HTC Touch from sprint and I am almost at the end my 30 day return window.

This phone claims to have Bluetooth capabilities but it doesn't work well with my infiniti G35. It is very garbled and practically impossible to use. I have read that there is an update to correct this however as stated above I am almost at the end of the return window and this phone is basically useless to me if i can't get hands free to work.

There are other issues with this phone as well such as video playback and mp3 playback where the sound will drop out and then come back. The video screen will also flicker while in some applications. I like the form factor of the phone however I may have to switch back to my previous phone.

Is there an update for these issues and if so when?

Thanks

Kevin XXXXX
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
Try this and tell us. ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Quicky update

I have some general comments to the responses here from the last day or so.

First, would you guys keep in mind that this whole thing is taking me several hours each day, updating stuff, reading, research, answering a gazillion e-mails, not to mention the lost productivity for my own company as well as 'material costs' (server, bandwidth) etc. The most important here being the time factor. I'm seeing several responses along the lines of why nothing is happening, keep the pressure up, this needs to updated, that needs to be fixed, this needs to be further explained etc. I do have other things to take care of you know, and I have seen none of you even coming close to the amount of time and effort I have put in. So for gods sake, keep it real, I can't possibly do everything at once.

Now on to the good stuff.

a) Has anyone contacted that pitbull New Yorker? He may prove to be crucial to our cause. If not, I suggest someone takes it upon themselves to make it their personal mission this happens.

b) I plan to initiate dialog with several lawyers tonight. However, this will depend on the response from a) and if the new CorePlayer is released - if it is able to provide high-res multimedia playback that would be a real stab at HTC, as they are using Qualcomm supplied technology available in the MSM7200. I will also contact 'our guy' (CV) from Taiwan to start gathering info on a lawsuit there, I thought he was already going to do this but apparently there has been some miscommunication there. Keep in mind we probably need one of you US citizens to eventually spearhead this, so argue amongst yourselves as to whom that will be. But let's get some info from them first (I suspect these lawyers will throw away many of our tech stuff and throw it on misadvertising - a good one is first advertising the multimedia, then saying it's not meant that way, and the CorePlayer showing it is indeed possible, that's a good angle if you ask me)

c) I agree another press release may be a good thing - but it would have to have significant changes with the previous one, e.g., new info, or at least the websites that have previously heard from us will simply ignore it. I understand it would be good to get this out to real media as well. Plan? Maybe it would best again to see what CorePlayer can deliver.

d) Keep in mind that when it comes down to it, all we have are things that are likely. We don't have absolute proof about the graphics capabilities being in there, just a lot of things that point in that direction. It is questionable if that will be enough - again, the lawyers will probably know this.

Guess that's pretty much it, though I probably forgot half about what I was going to say. Things are very much intertwined. I can see everybody is passionate about this here, but things don't instantly happen.

EDIT: If we're going for the lawsuit, we may also consider covering the bad speakerphone performance and bluetooth problems.

EDIT#2: Support responses saying there

will

be an update keep coming in, btw

@ray6

Please forward that response you got to info@HTCClassAction.org
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DSmithZ28:
Thanks Chainfire! You are doing great!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
The issue is on the front page of Digg! This is a huge step forward! Everyone should DIGG THIS! http://digg.com/gadgets/Poll_How_did_HTC_mishandle_the_video_driver_controversy_2
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ?Glitch:
I was the man on the grassy knoll, Elvis died when the biological processes in his body stopped functioning. And I am so glad to see an individual execute his/her/<it's> 1st amendment rights and so happy to get poked in the keister on false advertising to the point of standing up for it, this may be ok for you, but the rest of us recognise a pattern and are fed up with it. For those of you who whish to speak for those that would like to break a pattern of getting screwed by corperate greed, then I suggest you venture <HERE>.

?Glitch
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] PhilipL:
Hi

Not sure if this has already been spotted and linked to, but it is official. HTC will not be providing accelerated video support in current devices, you will have to spend extra cash on a new device to get what you thought you were getting with their latest models :(

http://www.htc.com/press_room/03-press-4-2008-0122.htm

It seems HTC have taken legal advice and state they have no class action lawsuit liability. The statement seems to have been written not to give it's customers an apology or information, but to stop their investors off loading shares!

In the UK we had the famous "Ratners" jewelers that through one mis-placed statement ruined the company, and this was before the internet! HTC have probably just done the same thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ratner Essentially HTC are admitting that their current expensive devices are very expensive "crap" to quote the famous Mr Ratner.

How they can get away with promoting the Qualcomm chips in their specifications knowing people would Google it and see Qualcomm wax lyrical about all the chips cool features only for HTC to not include them.

Regards

Phil
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ladytoast:
"Video playing driver" is still ambiguous. Should we just assume it's a bad translation. that they mean display driver and bend over?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NatronCH:
This statement belongs only to TyTN II but they do not mention the Touch Dual and Touch Cruise (Both of them have the same problem, right?)

May be they will only release a fix for the newer devices? This could also explain the different responses we received?

Might this also be the purpose why the shipment of the TC gets postponed that much?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
If they release a fix for newer devices, then I think some of the devs on the forum should be able to apply the fix to the TyTn II.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] PhilipL:
Hi

I think people are clutching at straws. It is quite clear to me that it's a "fingers up" to it's customers and open arms to their shareholders. The statement is only on part of the site used for trading announcements, not for their customers in general. HTC have not licensed the technology from Qualcomm for their current devices, and where legal action might be pending they are not going to suddenly update some devices and not other's as that would be an admission of them being in the wrong.

I still think it is bang out of order for HTC to advertise their devices use the Qualcomm chipset (complete with model number), they show this information as they know full well customers will Google it and read all the chips specifications and so will understandably get the impression that HTC devices have all these wonderful specs. That's essentially what has happened and why we all feel cheated. They advertise the chipset as they know that it is something people will research and will want in their device. HTC have had all the marketing benefit from Qualcomm while pocketing extra profit by not licensing and including some of the most wanted features.

I suspect shortly an asterisk will be added with a disclaimer on the website of "Not all features of the Qualcomm chips are implemented", as it stands now they have let ALL features of the Qualcomm chipset be associated with their devices for HTC's marketing benefit.

Regards

Phil
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
ok.. well, what's next then? Give up the idea that we will ever have acceleration on our kaisers?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
I'm of a mind to complete overhaul the site tonight as well (also due to advice from legal folks), to remove the overly detailed information "Keep It Simple Stupid" so to speak. Short, consice, and to the point.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] PhilipL:
Hi

Never give up :)

A few things may happen... drivers are leaked by HTC so cooks here can include them. It costs HTC nothing this way and they are seen not to have backed down or admitted liability and the community that are most vocal and so potentially harmful to HTC's reputation are made happy again.

We find drivers in another device to use.

We are stuck with what we have.

A class action lawsuit is taken out against HTC, however that means HTC then only has to pay out for the American market, still at least we would feel better that HTC are made to pay something for misleading customers.

We keep fighting though.

Regards

Phil
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hello77:
I agree; promoting the device use the qualcomm chips but then neglecting to mention that part of chip is "disabled" is at the very least misleading to customers. Reviews of this device (prior to the class action stuff being in the news) often referred to the fact that this device had the qualcomm chip and, therefore, would be a good performer. If the reviewers would of known that part of the chip/drivers would be disabled, then i am sure the reviews would of been different-- meaning negative. Clearly, htc promoted the qualcomm chip so as to deceive customers (as well as reviewers) into believing that the device would perform very well while remaining silent on the fact that only part of the qualcom chipset would be used. This is still false and deceptive advertising along with all the rest of the misinformation that was advertised (ie; enhanced media)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] PhilipL:
Hi

It would be interesting to know if review devices sent out by HTC also were without acceleration.

Could it be possible that review devices did include the necessary drivers to ensure reviews were favorable? Comparisons by reviewers must have been made to previous devices so why is it only us customers have found graphic performance poor?

Regards

Phil
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
Not even sure what this means.

Also, the second clip on that site refers to something about buying another company.

From the US site, there is a pretty extensive write up of the Tilt launch, part of which is specifically dedicated to multimedia capabilities.

"Multimedia Features

Beyond enterprise functionality, the AT&T Tilt is made for fun and games as well. The device is preloaded with free and premium games and applications including Ms. PAC-MAN, Brain Challenge, Bubble Breaker, Midnight Pool, Solitaire (MS), Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07, MobiTV, and MyCast.

The Tilt provides access to AT&T Mobile Music — an integrated, on-the-go music experience that delivers "your music, your way" by providing simple access to the most robust collection of music content available today, including XM Radio Mobile, which comes pre-loaded on the device and is available for $8.99 a month. The AT&T Tilt will also feature AT&T's CV streaming video service. Customers can watch a large selection of video clips of their favorite television shows, sports, news and weather, entertainment and premium content, including hit HBO programs and exclusive mobile content from World Wrestling Entertainment."

Another nit, most of those games mentioned in the first paragraph are trialware and require additional $$ for purchasing the software or a subscription.

I did a trial of MobiTV. It did not work at all, just froze up. At the time I tried it, I assumed it was due to limited OTA bandwidth, but it could have been a rendering related problem. I am not sure how to tell for sure though.

And yet another nit. I already have an XM Radio subscription which I use in both my vehicles and can access from every computer I own, but for some unknown reason, I need to pay 8.99 per month extra to get it via the Tilt UI.

So some people are searching for a way to better characterize the issue, would it be accurate to say the term "graphics rendering" covers all the scenarios, meaning gaming, video playback, video recording, camera viewfinder response, GPS tracking, etc...