yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Rossnl:
I have 2 say, its the best review of the whole situation ive read in the media. Especially 4 one of the crappiest newspapers in the netherlands haha. But its good cuz most of the people here read that newspaper.

And my thoughts about the 3 options u gave...id pick the second one cuz i think its 2 soon 2 actually start a whole lawsuit operation, it needs a lil bit more organization and discussion.

Anyways, i feel effed up screwed by htc and im even considering another phone now more the ever.

Keep the pressure goin peeps!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] grizzley:
It would be nice if we could put our phones under so much "stress" that they crashed and QualComm or HTC had to replace 1,000's of phones :)

Then, do it again.... and again... until they decided to just give us what is due us.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hass:
The thing is - I chose the Touch Dual over the old Touch primarily on expected performance with the 400MHz chip. Now I can barely focus my camera and the only reason the device is usable at all is because of the tip about changing the cache settings.

I want an update and unfortunately when it comes I bet it will require a hard reset.:(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Just something else I want to point out.

I see it mentioned in several places we can just wait for the next batch of MSM7x00 based devices that have the drivers and port them back.

First off, porting can be very dificult, or impossible. It can also be easy, if the devices are very similar. (e.g., it would probably not be very hard to port a driver between TyTN II and Touch Cruise, but that says nothing about X800, which is likely very hard to impossible).

Second, and this is the important part. It may well be possible that there will be no MSM7x00 devices after the already announced devices using this are out. This because of the Broadcom vs Qualcomm lawsuit, which Qualcomm lost. It is relevant to the MSM7x00 chips. AFAIK, Qualcomm can continue to provide these chips to HTC for devices the deals have already been made, but may NOT make new deals to seel these.

Just something that popped :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] AstainHellbring:
Quoted from IRC: "Oh we shall gather the horde and we shall storm their castle, burn their wicked leaders and tear off their coders smelly pants. It will be a glorious day to XDA, onwards Flash-o-Holics, to Taiwan and HTC!"
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Site updated with new response :) Patch still in the works?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] atomikpt:
Well i'm reading all of this for months since I get my phone (November).. And I didn't post anything until..

Now I've seen a HTC response and I must say I am very very dissapointed, after all the proofs that "we" showed to the world (a thing that was needed! if not HTC would probably ignore it).

I can just mention the camera is the WORST CRAP.. 3mp .. THEY DON'T COMMENT ABOUT THE ****TY CAMERA..

Solutions - future:

Anyway, my opinion is the people who understands this problems and knows how to solve it, must all share knowledge - and we need to sponsor them with money to solve this.. we ARE better than HTC.. we must do it ourselves for now..

They (HTC) decided.. and they will stick with their decision you can be sure of that. For change-of-mind we needed something BIG enough.. we don't have..

Peace and study ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Alexsha:
I was the 6666th person to sign o.O
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Haha, grats!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] grizzley:
I email about 10-15 people a day with links to tech bogs, etc... some days I get replies, some days I don't. Today, this is what I got from cingular_support@america.htc.com
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mindbeat:
Got a swedish phone-site to publish about the driver issue.

http://www.mobil.se/ArticlePages/20...20080123163545_MOB_Administratorer343.dbp.asp
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rainersnookh:
If they mean a useless camera is part of a "rich multimedia experience" then yes, I agree.

Just shot this clip on my Touch Dual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9b1L7m7G0Y

As long as a very bright object is in the viewfinder, everything is okay. If not = blur and low fps.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
If you're going to send it to a newspaper, make sure that stuff about Broadcom vs Qualcomm is correct. This is how I know the story, but I must admit I have not done heavy research on it. I'd also drop all the &'s, but use and instead, looks a lot better.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
New response again referring to an OS update surfaced... adding to the site.

Will be added to the site soon.

Will also be added.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] donatom3:
And to add MrMega's post. You should put the analogy of a PC running the default "VGA Device" driver on the page. If people or even news agencies tried this they would know exactly what we're talking about.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mrmega:
That is a GREAT idea!!!!!!!!!

If we can get Leo to see the real issues and keep him from misunderstanding us, he can be a very powerful friend and help. He reaches a HUGE audience in regards to technology. He very well could help us clarify our position and reach enough powerful people to affect change, or at the very least give HTC a major black eye for the way they have treated this situation.

A) He might be able to help us get what we want.

If not:

B) He certainly has the power to help shed light on HTCs position and if that were to happen, HTC could suffer enough bad press or fear suffering enough bad press to get off their rear ends and do the right thing.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] itje:
Media is a powerfull friend to have :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mrmega:
chainfire...

I just had a moment of clarity that could very well resolve part of our problem.

We should consider drafting a short, clear and accurate statement that represents our position as well as dispelling the myths and resubmitting it to HTC and let them know that fior whatever reason, they misunderstand our position and misunderstand what we are asking for.

Then find the right corporate entities at HTC for an on the record response official response to our clarified position.

HTC in its mind thinks its justified by denying our needs at this time because it thinks we want to watch maximum frame rate high rez video and maximum video game play. The parties at HTC that said "No" thinks they are saying no to one thing when in fact we are asking for another.

Let HTC know up front that as many of the 6000+ who have signed the petition can, have every intention of going public with their response and show them that all of the media attention this issue is getting is only going to increase. Be upfront, polite, courteous and professional. Let them know that they either help us or admit that customer support is not important regardless of how much they say it is.

If we submit an official statement and they refuse to respond, let them know that their refusal will be their offical response.

Bottom line

1. Clarify our response with an official letter we get to the appropriate parties at HTC

2. Let them know we want an on the record official response to our clarified position... if they refuse then they will in fact be proving to the public that they do not value customer service when they say:

"HTC values its customers and the overall online community of mobile device enthusiasts and fans. HTC plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support. "

Either way we win or they loose.

We either get:

1. Assurance from HTC that we the consumer matter and they commit to a solution for the problems....

2. They tell us NO, and end up shooting themselves in the foot publicly. Companies that advertise good customer support only anger the public when they refuse to get it, and that does affect profits... especially when the media is involved.

Regardless of their response in this scenerio, they will either save face or loose face and they will have to do it publicly.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] smartyP:
i read today on engadget that another phone from HTC (i believe on sprint) was finally given an upgrade to windows mobile 6 after months of complaints. the difference being that the complaints were to sprint - who eventually probably paid HTC to do the work.

I would suggest that users call and complain to their cell phone providers about this issue, and if your like me and within 30 days of starting your contract, then you should call and ask how to cancel your new contract because you were disappointed with the device - use AT&T (or whomever your provider is) to pressure HTC to fix this issue.

interesting comments on both of these entries:

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/01/22/htc-chimes-in-on-video-driver-controversy/

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/23/poll-how-did-htc-mishandle-the-video-driver-controversy/

If you haven't been emailing or calling, be sure to find out how here:

http://www.htcclassaction.org/whattodo.php

keep up the fight guys.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mrmega:
+1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
smartyP (and others), please remember. LOTS of us (including me) have bought unlocked unbranded HTC TyTN II directly from the shop and not from some mobile operator. It is separating our efforts.

Even though I think your idea is a good idea I just had to note this.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
I think you should call too - they don't ask for your IMEI. And even if they do - say that you don't have it handy.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dperren:
Given the confusion that seems to be occurring on various news outlets, perhaps drafting a short, succinct, and accurate 'Mission Statement' to go on the HTCClassAction website would be a good idea.

Just a prominent paragraph outlining the problem for those without advanced understanding, or without the inclination to read the whole site.

:confused:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doug2873:
anyone who has doubts about a lawsuit working in the united states, look at this recent settlement against Palm for the treo 600 and 650...each of those owners get $50-75 back from Palm.

http://www.palzasettlement.com/Final_Summary_Notice.pdf

and heres all the other info about it: http://www.palzasettlement.com/

enjoy

P.S the key wording in the settlement:

The lawsuit claimed that the Treo 600 and Treo 650

smartphones had certain defects, failed at unacceptable

rates, and that Palm made misrepresentations

concerning the Treo 600 and Treo 650 smartphones.

Palm, Inc. denies all allegations and has asserted many

defenses. Palm is entering into this settlement to avoid

burdensome and costly litigation. The settlement is not

an admission of wrong-doing or an indication that any

law was violated.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] difflvl:
I would not want to release the email address' of any of these people because I believe it will hurt us more than it will help. People sending them immature emails will not help, they will just start ignoring all the driver related emails. I'm actually surprised that no-one has figured out their email addresses.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Excellent...

I think if it comes to a point where we develop and pay for drivers ourselves, it'll be good to have their emails become public so that they can get a sense of our frustration and what they have done to their customers.

I hope it doesn't come to that though..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
More publications, now on russian/ukrainian side:

http://www.smartphone.ua/news_4699.html?fromtop

and this one too:

http://www.mconline.ru/post/24458/default.asp
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ?Glitch:
They only speak dollars, and only have memory as long as their ledgers run...

There's something wrong here, oh wait, it's my feelings, they've hurt my feelings by telling me a lie that their phone did 3D rendering, I am emotionally impacted that the corperation I thought produced the best PDA phones has turned their back on their customers, I feel like I am so emotionally distressed over this....

Tido, bring me my lawyer...

?Glitch
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
We're not naive, we understand that they don't give a crap about this. However, they will feel it if their email boxes are filled with complaints and how people are pledging not to buy HTC and do everything they can to spread news about HTC messing up their flagship PDA.

That smells like profit loss - and they can feel that for sure.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] potpeye:
:( I came to the conclusion after owning 4 HTC phones in the last 4 years I will never buy a HTC phone again. I been following the petition and eveything that been going on and with the recent news nuff is enough. HTC you win but you lost a 4 year old consumer. Hell wish i had my Hermes again that phone did everything it suppose as expected when buying a 500$ product when it was new.

When you throw down 500-700$ on something it simple business consumer is always right cause what stupid consumer would pay that much for anything and get less than expected cause they didn't advertise it that way but sorta did ooooohhhhh k yea.

Also note it a TYTN 2 it should not be outperformed by the HERMEs in any form or fashion equal maybe but nvr get beat. Since umm like it suppose to be it successor.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Hold on now... they didn't win anything yet.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] frenkck:
I still think it's an option to involve Microsoft in this debacle. HTC is microsofts elite partner, so they have a name to keep high.

Microsoft really is going to feel the breath of android en apple on pocketpc area, so outpeformed windows mobile phones isn't really going to help them. Especially not when people will decide to buy an iphone, because the lack of peformance.

When Microsoft is complaining, there will be a fix in no time.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] potpeye:
You saying they didn't win anything yet but we havent loss or won either. Progress is nothing when what we want is getting distorted by others. But yes i given up when yall ready to be serious about a class action lawsuit i be there in support and a wallet in hand to help.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Contacting M$ is no small undertaking. They are swarmed with support. I mean I like the idea, but we have to find a "good" email address where it will be considered.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] donatom3:
One of my friends has an ex coworker/friend of his that works at microsoft in their windows mobile division. I also got the guy on my xbox live list. I'll see if I can either get the message to him or talk to hiim myself.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Now you're talking. Explain the situation to him and ask him what we need to do to get good exposure of the problem in Microsoft.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ?Glitch:
An individual has to file the suit, then the case can be granted class action status once damages have been established...

?Glitch
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Page updated (finally). "Misunderstandings" page added and frontpaged in a big red block. Anything to add?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
Got all hopeful when I read about the ROM update on the HTC Hong Kong website, and thought maybe we had managed to get through to HTC. However, reading this thread has dampened those hopes! Wish HTC would just get their act together and just make a proper official statement, one way or the other. Guess we'll have to wait for reports back about the Asian ROM.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ladytoast:
They have. I rang support in Australia today, and the chap read DailyTech’s HTC response to me word for word over the phone. He told me that was the official response from HTC management. He also told me there were no drivers being developed to fix the video problem, despite him telling me 2 weeks ago it had been escalated to R&D and was being worked on. I do believe him, I just think he is telling what he knows.

I mentioned the camera badness and he told me that was being investigated as a separate case. I wonder if "video" issues was taken literally. As we know it isn't only video playback that suffers but over all display performance.

I have to say having that read back to me certainly dampened my spirits regarding a forthcoming driver as well, but I don't think we should give up. HTC is currently undergoing a deluge of bad press because of this, and their response comes over as "screw you". It isn't good publicity.

There is these new devices mentioned that we could perhaps scavenge drivers from, and the possibility that a 6.1 update will render graphics in a smoother way when navigating the OS.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Another CNET article: http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/handhelds/0,39001709,62036929-2,00.htm
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
I think what he meant is more a proper statement which is not ambiguous and is clear, contrary to this one.

With this statement a) they do not actually say the chip is not there, and b) they seem to focus on video

playback

, which is not even the biggest issue.

It rather looks like the marketing/PR guys somewhat misunderstood what the problem is.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
I am sure I speak for everybody if I say we are very much anticipating seeing this in action.

As for you fixing the drivers themselves, I can't remember how many times I have told people you didn't and using the QTV API is exactly what you were doing :)

I have some further questions I will ask you over PM, they won't involve giving away your secrets.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Blowfish64:
I really don't know why we're all moaning and groaning about this. The HTCClassAction.org site was set up to get mainstream publicity to the issue, have HTC acknowledge the problem, and work on a fix. HTC has plainly and OFFICIALLY told us that they have no intention of doing the right thing. With all the news sites posting this story, publicity is already pretty high. Why are we still waiting with all this? The next logical step is to stop with the empty threats and put our money where our mouths are. Money is the only thing that HTC understands, so lets do this already. I don't see a point in continuing to try to raise publicity anymore, since HTC has already explicitly said they will not create the drivers by choice.

And I don't know why everyone thinks this is such a weak case. Press releases do imply the devices will use the hardware, and for anyone who doesn't think the implication is enough, let's not forget the lawsuit against verizon and the motorola v710. That has a lot of similarity to our situation and was successfully settled, so now there's a precedence.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Zyren:
EDIT: blowfish beat me to it as i was typing this...

I dont remember anyone mentioning this, but at engadget someone made a very interesting comment about verizon being sued over the bluetooth issue

"Verizon Wireless was sued a couple years ago over it's version of the Motorola v710. Verizon had purposely left disabled certain parts of the bluetooth profiles- namely the ability to transfer files and sync PIM data. While it was speculated that this was to strong-arm clients into paying a ridiculous sum for their V-Cast and data transfer services, Verizon ended up settling. Subscribers who had purchased the phone received their money back and some extra- in my case, I got the opportunity to upgrade for free without contractual obligation, or part with Verizon without incurring any early termination penalty.

The court "ruling", or issue at case, was that a known feature that was expected was in fact not available, and Verizon did not advertise or otherwise announce that fact. So if this Hooplah turns into something more class-action, a precedent has already been set: You can not disable an expected feature and then tell your customers to buy in to something else, or upgrade, if you want it. That's a bait-and-switch."

I think hes right and it gives some sort of precedent over companies leaving features out in phones.

here is the link:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/23/...e-video-driver-controversy/comments/10003407/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] beta_boy:
No secrets here.... we just want ppl to enjoy what they paid for and if we can provide at least a means for 'proper' video playback (at least from our eco-system) we are happy to do so. It still does not mean that HTC should not step up here and do something about it and as I have indicated here before leaving for CES... even I rang HTC's buzzer to see if anyone was listening, but received no response.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Well, lets get the ball rolling. Whoever is into legal stuff should call up some attorney offices. Heck, I don't need the money - all I need is for HTC to release the drivers. Whatever attorney office takes this on can take the settlement.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jym04:
But still I think we depend on a firm official statement from them.

They have 3 options I think:

1) They release the proper drivers and fix it;

2) They say they won't fix nothing, still implying that the ATi part is there;

3) They say that there's no ATi part whatsoever, therefore no fix.

No. 1 is the happy ending.

No. 3 is the sad ending, where I think we can win a class action/lawsuit/whatever, because they said there would be a MSM7200 chipset in there, and Qualcomm states it contains the ATi part. We didn't received what we paid for.

No. 2 is confusing. There might be a chance of getting something through a lawsuit. Someone might end up developing the drivers.

Still as Chainfire stated at htcclassaction.org, there has to be some dedicated video part in that chip, ATi or not, which is not being properly used, and they have to fix it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Oh you may be sure we will be using CorePlayer to slap those asshats around a bit with what the Kaiser is capable of, it will be most useful you will probably agree ;)

BTW: I will have to fix some references that wrongly state that the ATI hardware is responsible for everything while some of these things are possibly handled by other parts of the chipset.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] beta_boy:
ATI has no part of what is needed and that its all Qualcomm / Qtv.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BlitzK:
...and my reply to the question about my Sprint Mogul:

These devices are selected by the wireless carriers then reprogrammed, re-branded, and sometimes remodeled at their discretion. Sprint has taken complete ownership in supporting these devices. They have a technical support team for PDA devices and if required they can forward the issue to the HTC Engineers department. I would recommend you to contact Sprint technical support. Please call them at: 1-800-927-2199 for further assistance.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Yeah I was actually aware of that, don't know why I completely missed out on that while building the site.

EDIT: That slapping them around with it is more aimed at their excuse that these devices are not meant to play video well, not at the other issues.