yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] HeartOfDarkness:
lol Even on that we disagree, lol ! But this time, there's no question about who's right or wrong. :-) The "flagship" term comes from the Navy.

In a fleet, the "flagship" is the ship used by the commanding officer of a group of naval ships. Unless deception was of the essence, the flagship was the most precious ship, the most heavily armed, in general the most "state of the art" device in the arsenal, hopefully the one which, if pitted against an enemy vessel, would always prevail.

In that respect, and until, arguably, the appearance of the Shift, the Athena IS (or was when it came out, at least) HTC's flagship device, there's no question about that, since no other competing manufacturer has an equivalent, both in price range, intended target, etc.

The Hermes, and Kaiser, are more mass-market devices, lower priced, and DO have equivalents with competitors (Glofiish, etc.).

None taken, of course. And... No offence. :-)

lol So, so true. :-)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] spacecat:
On the same device:

- crappy phone; YES i said

- crappy video playback; YES i Said

- crappy mp3 playback;The sound was ok Access was not

- crappy wifi; NEVER SAID THAT

- crappy bluetooth. BT lost signal sometimes so Not great

Internet access via HSDPA: Slow ,,locating page ..locating page etc

The Advantage as YOU say is pretty average at a lot of things

Maybe YOUR JUST AVERAGE!.........

some of us EXPECT MORE
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] leoni1980:
I hate to disagree again (i really do) but the corporate meaning of a flagship device is its primary commercial moneyspinner. usually this device has many features but it is also intended to be driven at the mass-market. it is essentialy a bastardisation of the naval term that you cited which was, i grant you, very eloquently described.

let's agree to disagree on this one or we'll be here all night.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] techntrek:
Actually that was me...
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] wgary:
As Scoobie would say, Rut row.

So sorry.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] eaglesteve:
I'm not sure this would be my ideal device. 3.6 inch screen of XDA is WAY too small for realVGA to be useful. However, if the screen could cover the entire surface to have at least 4.5 inch size, then I'd go for it.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] eaglesteve:
I think the factual evidence, considering ALL aspect of the phone, make a crappy rating unjust. Use it with a bluetooth headset, the only issues which is size and sound quality, are history. Why such an vehement refusal to use it is beyond my understanding. So far, you berated it as having too many devices and therefore not convergent anymore. But I thought you don't want convergence so what's the problem? See the LG Style-I thread. Instead of an additional small phone, you have LG style-I, all problems gone.

See my post regarding video. Would be happy to look at my opinion if you could send me your video file for me to test as I really have no issue with this.

See my post regarding music Access. It's really very very good.

I don't use bluetooth yet, so can't comment. However, by just reading and also research, I understand that we need to look into headset compatibility. Don't know.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] eaglesteve:
This is a very object and fair rating, and reflects my thinking exactly. I also don't like to be forced to carry a BT headset. So the lack of private speaker is the ONLY issue. For others, size is also the issue. But when put side by side with all the other aspects of the phone, you could see that it is unfair to make it a COMPLETE CRAP or CRAP.

Some say that we're prepared to overlook the flaws just because of some small merits. The opponents says there are just slight imperfection and overwhelmingly there are lots of merits. So who is right? I supposed your degree of satisfaction depends on whether you're looking at the 1/4 empty cup of 3/4 full water. :D
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] spacecat:
Without wishing to repeat myself over and over and i do take on board that you really rate this device, I basically could just not live with it anymore. Yes i loved the 5 inch screen and in a previous post

I stated I did everything possible to make it work, using all the roms

and DONATING to the makers of them.

However the SAME thing that attracted me to it i.e the 5 inch screen was a HUGE factor in why I had to get rid of it.

Yes i could have carried on with a BT headset but I would still HAVE to carry the Athena at all times. For me the only way to do this would be in a Bag which got to be annoying.

Voice activated dialing was at best haphazard and i used every software there is. The movies looked ok but inevitably jerked/de synced and internet pages and streaming via HSDPA was slow and buffered loads.

MP3s sounded ok but needed 2 handed operation to manage. Now i know that you dont think that makes a difference but it DID to me. Especially when you live in a City like London and travel on the tube everyday.

As i said most of my usage is Multimedia not work/office based and i cant think of ANYTHING I regularly did on my ATHENA that i can not do far more quickly,efficiently and efectively on my Viewty.

The only difference is the screen size which at 3 inches isnt bad for a mobile phone and im prepared to accept the trade off in size to get a device that is just so much more user friendly, light and useful.

I felt like the Athena was dictating to me how i did things, i had to compromise to use it too much. I do not feel that way anymore.

I also found WM6 to be a limitation for things i want to do when I feel the need to have a bigger screen or dont mind carrying a bigger device. Hence i went for an EEE pc which for the money i am amazed at what it can do and its incredibly small size for a laptop.

I can play loads of FULL pc games.pro evo,quake,HL1 & HL2 and loads of others, i can view any website inc youtube and run any app that i need: Bit torrent, Sopcast etc all at HSDPA speeds.

I DONT need to carry the EEE everyday though so i choose when and if i need it or not. With the ATHENA as my phone as well I have NO choice but to carry it everyday which doesnt work for me.

Like i said the XDA exec form factor was about the limit/biggest compromise i could have lived with, but too be honest now i can use XP where ever i want that is now a MUST requirement.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] eaglesteve:
Spaccat,

I'm not doubting that you have a very DIFFERENT requirement from the majority of the Athena owners, hence your needs are better met by a simple phone plus sub notebook.

But just because the specifications do not match your needs does not make Athena a crap. If what you need is a passenger car and by mistake bought a truck and then regretting it. You try your best to make the truck work as a passenger car but no matter how hard you try truck does not work for you. But it does not make the truck a crap. Similarly a guy wanting a truck can't say the passenger car is a crap. It's just a mismatch of needs against functions. Because you don't really need a large VGA screen running realvga like I do, it's hard for you to see how special and unique Athena is. No matter what you do, you will feel the the size is unwanted, unwarranted, provides zero values, and needlessly heavy. Whereas for me there isn't any option other Athena because I simply need the big VGA screen. But let's not say that Athena is a crap phone just because it is WAY too big. Can we agree at least on this point?

XP would never be the right thing for me, on the go. It's not instant on. It consumes too much power. It does not have good software in the area of my needs. The list goes on and on, but it's no crap. For others such as yourself, that's exactly what you want so it appears to be "superior" to WM6. Really they are different animals and serves very different needs. I would not pretend that Athena is a notebook replacement that works well enough on desktop, given the available desktop options. Similarly, we should not pretend that XP is a good mobile OS, given the available mobile options. Can we also agree on this?

If we can agree on both of these points, I think it should bring this debate pretty much to a satisfactory close from both side and we can all have a permanant truce.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] spacecat:
If you know anything about me by now you would know that i dont do truces! :)

HOWEVER .......................

like i said the athena works for you thats great goodluck.

ALL devices (like women!) are compromises

there is a trade off between form and function, i.e. in my case 5 inch screen and noticably heavy against 3 inches and very light.

Up until now i have tended to have larger phone devices because of the increased ability to do other things apart from call.

My recent phone history is SE P900-mini MDA Vario-XDA2i-Athena - LG Viewty

As i am not a prolific phone talker so i am prepared to compromise on size compared to the average person as i like all the multi media addons of bigger devices

Obviously i knew how BIG the Athena was before i bought it but i thought the trade off of the BIG screen and the expected Multimedia functionality would be acceptable.

The problem was the EXTRAS i was expecting , Video,Internet,Music,Streaming were just not GOOD ENOUGH to justify the carrying of such a large device.

I do not expect to pay £350 (on contract) for a device then have to rely on UNKNOWN HACKERS and MODDERS to make the thing half useable. Installing ROMS, loads of FREEWARE software and endless tweaking and DONATING !

This should have ALL WORKED out of the BOX for what some have called a FLAGSHIP device,i call it an experimental device.It feels half finished and underdeveloped and the appalling implementation of the SHIFT indicates to me a company that has lost its way.

SO much as i didnt like carrying a device I knew was BIG the fact that so much about it was also poorly implemented was what made it totally unviable for me.

i dont Know if you mean to be Sarcastic/patronising when you refer the LG viewty as a

SIMPLE PHONE but I feel you are wrong. In fact its a highly complex and well implemented

device that has been clearly thought through by the developer.

A feather light phone that can OUT OF THE BOX:

Playback DIVX flawlessly

play MP3's with album art perfectly

5 MP zoom top quality camera

HSDPA connectivity/ and use as a modem

display internet in seconds

stream video perfectly

120 FPS video camera

sync to OUTLOOK

read documents

watch and upload to YOUTUBE

Watch MOBILE TV

AND run JAVA applications

and more other things than i can remember

IS NOT A SIMPLE DEVICE!

So dont I think the ATHENA is a particularly good device especially for MULTIMEDIA it is really for me JUST a HUGE screen and the poor phone aspect is only compuounded by this
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] eaglesteve:
Spacecat,

It's wrong for me to call viewty a simple phone. It's not.

It meets your need perfectly, not would never be right for me.

For example, there is no GPI and I can't run ce based application programs. This later limitation alone is fatal flaw, as running applications is what it is all mostly about. Outside winmo environment, there just isn't enough good application software for me to choose from.

I can live with a lesser Athena camera but not without GPS. You can obviously do without GPS but not without footy tv show. You also don't seem to run third party software applications.

So I need a truck, not a passenger car, whereas you need a passenge car not a truck. Both have their own strengths and shortfalls. Viewty is as crapy to me as Athena is to you. Fair?

Just for my own interest, could you tell me a bit more info about Viewty? Is it easy to transfer large sized movies and mp3 between Viewty and the PC? How much time to transfer a 1 GB file from pc to viewty? Does it have a good speaker for use inside the car? Does the camera work well indoor work poor lighting condition? I know it's a 3 inch tiny screen, but what's the resolution? Does it show just 1/4 of the web page area of what 96dpi Athena does, or less? Are there lots of games available and are they freeware? I might get my wife a Viewty, but also looking at iphone.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] Martincyborg@gmail.com:
its the same here as in the E90 vs Athena thread:

one cannot criticize the Athena just because one doesn't need all the specs!

now lets all be happy with what we have and move on
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] spacecat:
Question

Is it easy to transfer large sized movies and mp3 between Viewty and the PC? AND How much time to transfer a 1 GB file from from pc to viewty?

Answer

You can connect the viewty via the USB cable in 2 ways one as data for synching and one as USB mass storage device. The second one is MUCH faster, basically its like transferring at USB2 to a portable hard drive. I transfer a film in about 2-3 mins.Similar to transferring over a lan

Question

Does it have a good speaker for use inside the car? Does the camera work well indoor work?

Answer

Like most mobiles these days the speaker is very loud and clear enough for general listening

The viewty is marketed as a Camera Phone i am NO photographer but the pictures i have taken are very nice. it has loads of settings ISO this and loads of techy stuff i dont know about:)

Question

I know it's a 3 inch tiny screen, but what's the resolution? Does it show just 1/4 of the web page area of what 96dpi Athena does, or less?

Answer

3 inches is big for a phone :) if you use opera mini it compresses the page so you read the whole thing in a column normal size you just scroll down, I think Athena did this as well. It works very well and you can read the whole page no problem. It works in portrait and landscape

Question

Are there lots of games available and are they freeware? I might get my wife a Viewty, but also looking at iphone.

Answer

The viewty is still quite new so there are some but not hundreds of games for it. I am not into mobile phone games , I have a PSP and a EEE!

Other things to consider and maybe I am biased :)

Viewty is HSDPA Iphone is not

Viewty camera is much better

Viewty can take a 8GB micro sdhc card,(memory manager will see 2GB but u can access and playback the whle 8GB)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] eaglesteve:
Thanks for the info.

One last question. My wife is very much into day trading of shares and watches share prices like a hawk. Most of them are Java-based webpages. Does Viewty handle this well?
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] leoni1980:
Give him an address to test.

The screen display of Viewty is 240 by 400; the iphone's is 320 by 480. Iphone should handle your wife's Java sites well but she'll be pulling her hair out at the slowness unless there's Wifi nearby! I can test her sites on an Iphone, an N95 and a Samsung F700 for you if need be. Personally I think the Iphone only really excels as a WIFI safari browser and multimedia player. It's got a nice UI but is marred by a poor camera, lack of mms support and crippled bluetooth profile.

You could always get her an Athena! ;)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] eaglesteve:
Athena does not support Java based sites.:o
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] leoni1980:
My apologies I thought you were talking about JavaSCRIPT. I don't think ANY mobile OS's can handle Java as a Sun Microsystems would have to develop a plugin for each of the Operating systems and I don't think most could handle it anyway. To be fair I think most of these Java sites will move to Flash soon as it's a bit less clunky.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] eaglesteve:
I think none of us has mentioned that Athena allows us to make calls using voice command. I've never got any phone before that does this. Does Viewty or N95 do this? My samsung SGH E370 which some of my family members use, are very very good simple phone (with camera, mp3, bla bla bla), but it does not have anything like this.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] eaglesteve:
I wish to share with all of you how I implement the phone profile on Athena.

I have installed a program called Profiles for Windows Mobile version 2.2.0 which occupies just one line on my today screen. Clicking and holding it will let me choose to go to the option screen, on which I can create a normal and a silent profile. The must suitable ringtone is assign to each profile there. For me, the silent ringtone is an ultra sonic mosquitoe ringtone which I can hear but some can't. Before a meeting, I touch the profile line on the today screen and the two profile pops up for me to select. There's also option to revert back to the other profile automatically in say an hour.

In this way, Athena is no different from any regular phone in its ability to be discreet during meeting.

Note that instead of the ultra sonic sound, you could also prerecord the sound of a vibrating phone as the ringtone of silent profile.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] leoni1980:
Hi Eaglesteve,

I've tested out the built-in voice command on the N95:

basically you either press and hold the right selection key or press the 'answer' key on your headset (wired or bluetooth) then say the contact's name clearly. So long as the contact is stored on the phone it will then repeat the name and after about 3 seconds begin dialling. If you say the name followed by 'home' it will call the home number.

You can assign applications to open when you say their name, along with profile settings. By default if I press the command key and say 'silent' the phone will repeat 'silent' then go to the silent profie.

It's pretty neat, but not much use to me as i dont drive!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] ollli3d:
the best device ever!!!

I ve been using minis, ppcs since they exist, now the htc makes it (in combo with the jvc mp series, the ultimate flexible and mobile solution yet. take any providers umts and online options, and u are world wide available and mobile. yes there are drawbacks (like the making calls, but for that u setup the voice dials (works great for me)) ...

besides, when u talk while having a headset - bluetooth or whatever - with what other phone can u take notes, look up other stuff or even continue working - other than this baby.

anyway, u gotta love this thing and use all options available, that is what the htc x7500 is for, then u may even overlook the little disadvantage(s)... and hey, get a stereo bluetooth headset, there is nothing like stereo-phony cool:

ollli
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] techntrek:
If you are talking about voice tags, my last Nokia did it, 5 years ago. I think it was model 6010. If you mean true voice recognition, I don't know if any other has it.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] eaglesteve:
I meant voice recognition, sorry for not being clear enough.

Which also mean that not only you can dial a name, but also call a number, start an application, play a music, etc using voice.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] leoni1980:
In that case the n95 has it. You don't have to programme each individual contact in - the application recognises what's in your contacts list. You can initiate any application - even individual bookmarks, or profiles with your voice. It would be very handy if i drove.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] eaglesteve:
Viewty shop not open?
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] spacecat:
THE RESULTS ARE IN!

22% felt it was the best phone ever

51% had no strong feelings either way and so could be considered neutral

If you combine the 2 negative choices into one , ie. you would assume that anyone who chose 'totally sucks ass' would have chosen 'pretty crap' then 27% thought the Athena was pretty crap as a phone.

Therefore 5% more of people on an Athena website thought it was pretty crap as a phone compared to this who thought it was 'the best ever' which i think is pretty high .

Obviously most people had no strong feelings one way or the other
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] eaglesteve:
You have put two answers into B. One answer is okay and another is neutral. Your have explained item B as okay, not neutral in your post number 1. If the rest of B voters' intention were like mine, I voted okay, and not neutral.

The only crap here is the way this poll was conducted.

About 3/4 of Athena users think it is okay at least. Only 1/4 think it's crap. I should know the meaning of my own vote.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] spacecat:
i set the poll dude and my analysis is what counts

B= okay NO STRONG FEELINGS EITHER WAY so neither good not bad

If something is ok it doesnt make it GOOD or BAD So i would consider it Neutral.

Therefore if you come down to the extremes more people thought it was Crap than Good! and thats on an ATHENA SITE

I love the way you comeback here time after time DEFENDING the ATHENA its very funny. Its also funny that NO ONE ELSE DOES!

why is that?

ps i couldnt open that site re shares in XP let alone on my viewty, but i think if the Athena cant see it with all its abilities how could a 'SIMPLE' phone :)

still make her day and buy her one
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] Confucious:
If you want a simple phone then buy one.

The Athena is OK as a phone but fantastic at most other things.

People don't buy just as a phone.

If you don't like it, fine, we do.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] spacecat:
Its average at a lot of things to be honest
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] gtm55:
sell it my friend, you seem to be so unhappy with it...
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] eaglesteve:
Your no feeling either way can also be interpreted to mean neutral to whether it is the BEST or the OKAY phone. You already have two crap in C and D, so you can't have another half crap in B.

It is the voters clarification is the meaningful of their own vote that counts. okay means the phone works. 75% of us think that the phone works. If you misinterprete it to mean most people think it does not work, you're putting words in our mouths.

If people don't think this phone is okay, they will sell it. Most of us are keeping it.

Most of us, and I'm not the only one have said good things about it than bad on this thread. This should tell you that answer B is a positive answer rather than a negative one.

Of course, you have from the very outset determine on fulfilling your life mission of proving that Athena is crap and so that you can feel good about your phone change and to feel good about Viewty. If viewty is really that good you should be able to feel good without having to tear down Athena by deceitful poll.

I'm sure you have read that I'm not the only one that says your poll question are biased and deceitful.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo General] spacecat:
What i dont understand , is why it bothers you so much? you have one .. you clearly love it ..

1.why do you care that more people think its crap than good (as a phone)?

2.why did you BOTHER to answer a POLL you thought was deceitful and biased? Why didnt you just ignore it?

As a famous British Prime minister once said

'There are LIES, Damn LIES and STATISTICS!'

you can interpret and analyse the results of any survey, study or poll in any way you want.

My poll had one positive answer , one neutral answer and 2 negative answers the negatives out weighted the positive FACT the Neutral out weighed both positive and negative FACT.

You talk complete crap where did i say that Ok mean't positive or negative. i said 'NO STRONG FEELINGS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER'

i.e NEUTRAL neither good nor bad!

remember the poll was as a PHONE not all the other functions so some people might put up with a CRAP PHONE but keep the device anyway.....i did for 7 months :)

Theres NO deceit i just gave people 2 levels of crapness thats all big deal.

pretty crap or totally sucks ass. lets face it if you didnt put 'totally sucks ass' you WOULD HAVE PUT pretty crap!

once again YOUR OBSESSION singles YOU OUT .... Its just a phone albeit a poorly implemented one in many areas..

anyway get your wife the Viewty she deserves something nice for living with a NUTTER!