yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Well, until I figure out my solder stuff... feedback on what I was able to test as it was.

Audio was significantly more powerful! Quite a difference! I'll spend some more time on this over the next couple days.

It is a tricky mod, but worth it!
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
I think my chip might be faulty so I got a new one coming in next week. I'll update this post next week when I get it
[Android Head-Units] edit:
A few questions if you don't mind :

1. Only the power improved with the Pioneer chip or also the sound quality.

2. The sound quality improvement was big or small?

3. With the new chip being more powerful it will generate more heat (i assume)... Isn't that a problem for the stock heatsink?

Thank you!
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Audio sounded better at a higher volume

I think it was decent

It shouldn't be an issue as long as you end up using thermal paste. The whole back of the stereo acts as a giant heatsink
[Android Head-Units] Skinzaholic:
Look forward to any updates on this to see if the channel issues are ironed out. Ready to order my chip and get to work on this myself .
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Update on the stereo. Got the new soldering iron in the mail. Redid ALL the solder points, cleaned up the board, etc. Sounds amazing! Will get a video posted soon!
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Putting it all back together :)
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Here's an audio demo!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGFAdh5MX0Q

Note: my phone microphone was overwhelmed by the bass haha!
[Android Head-Units] Skinzaholic:
Nice , thanks for the write up. I have my chip on order.
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
If anyone is in the Seattle area, I will have a spare chip in the mail this week - I'll gladly donate it to whoever wants it.
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Get a good quality soldering iron, use the thinnest tip and get a solder suction thing.

I got this from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JZ6HNB8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also, take your time and don't rush. I recommend now actually moving the old amp chip back and forward until the pins break. Then use the suction tool to get all the solder out and remove the old pins. Make sure all solder is gone so the holes are not plugged. Put in the new chip, solder from the bottom of the board. Be somewhat generous on the solder so it goes through the board but make sure it's not too much.
[Android Head-Units] budwha:
This might be a dumb question, but is this mod only if you are using the speaker wire outputs? Or does it modify the RCA outputs....or both?
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
All of the outputs share the same amp chip
[Android Head-Units] dpredster:
I don't think you mentioned it but do you have a link for where you bought the amp chip?
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
ebay .com/itm/PA2030A-Original-New-Pioneer-Semiconductor-/141478876132?hash=item20f0cc53e4:g:68AAAOSwg3FUblZ3
[Android Head-Units] TheTechnician:
you dont have to say good by to the warranty...

just use a hair heat blower and take the mini label off :D
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Hahaha! And they won't notice the audio chip being replaced?! Hahaha!
[Android Head-Units] Hilari0:
Great mod! Might be looking into this, but as far as I see from the datasheet, this will not affect the RCA preamp outputs, this is only the power amp section of the head unit. Might be easier to use an external power amp if there's space for it in the vehicle. Nonetheless, for those with the soldering skills, this is indeed a nice mod! The next would be to upgrade the DAC and preamp section... :)
[Android Head-Units] nexxusty:
Ordered a PA2030A as I run 4ohm Speakers.

Thanks for this Tutorial man. I can't wait to install this into my head unit. This and Marshmallow make this unit so sweet.

Will do a heatsink mod to the SoC as well..... Throttling be gone! LOL.
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
I might do that at some point soon
[Android Head-Units] gf4tiu:
Thanks for sharing your upgrade!

I've ordered this yesterday, hope it's genuine and working, ebay: 361947325059

So it's really "plug and play" without any further modifications like resistor and so on? That would be great!
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Plug and play
[Android Head-Units] PsychoMcSatan:
I've got mine in the mail as well. There's a bunch of discussion of this and similar swaps in Chinese forums. Some do seem to discuss adding a resistor or upgrading a capacitor, but Google translations are often hard to follow. Ultimately it seems it's only needed to prevent possibly clipping when you really crank the volume.

My under-educated understanding is that the capacitor queues up extra "juice" for when the amp requests it and the PA2030 can theoretically request more than the stock amp. I don't normally play my music at window shaking levels so I'm not concerned.

[MENTION=442915]bogdi1988[/MENTION] , you seem to have been running this for a while and put it though it paces. Any updated observations?
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
i see a lot of people swapping amp chips, but how about radio IC chip? Can it be replaced?
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Agree. It's for the loud volume to not did like garbage
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Don't see why not. What's wrong with current one?
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
are there any chinese units with good FM reception? :) nop.

pe scurt: sucks
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Ai incercat un booster de antenă?

For non Romanian speakers: have you tried an antenna booster?
[Android Head-Units] edit:
I have a pretty big antenna on the roof, My car is an old 2008 Ford, and back then they were still using big antennas (50 cm).

The point is, even with a big antenna the radio reception is only decent. I don't have issues so much with the reception but with the quality of the sound. For talkshows, news programs is perfectly fine but for music not so good.

For some reason for music it lacks the dynamic, the bass is poor and so are the high....
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Haha! He did reply in Romanian so I though he knew how to speak it ???
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
the proper way to say it was "pe scurt: suge" :)

yea, i have an active antenna which is fed 12V from the headunit. Without it is a disaster. But reception is still miles behind OEM units.
[Android Head-Units] edit:
True but changed my mind... to avoid a timeout from an admin.... I need this account to make my Sofia Unit work... so far it's a mess... I am so sorry that I upgraded to android 6 and I can't go back...

And true radio sucks... but it sucks on many units that I had in my Ford... and I had quite a lot by now... always looking for a good one.... Sofia is good hardware wise but software... oh man...
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
you mean 5.1.1 was better for you than 6.0.1, on the same unit? in what respect?
[Android Head-Units] edit:
- I had no problem with the brightness like I have in 6.0.1 12 May revision (the 6.0.1 8 May version was also has ok brightness)

- Deezer app (my main source of music) displayed better not with that annoying white bar

- I had some issues with power management when XiiaLive was put on pause but managed to fix those in the meantime

- ok google does not work in 6.0.1

- had many BT issues in 6.0.1 that got solved in 12 may... but... they introduced the brightness issue...
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
well, on the intel units the amp chip is still tda7388 and radio is tda7786.

we know already what better alternatives are for the amp (7850, 7851 or pa2030a as in this thread), but what is out there that can improve over radio's 7786? If it's not the chip, what else could be the cause for weak reception, even with powered antennas, compared to OEM units?

by the way, few chinese manufacturers already moving to tda785* as main amp chip out of the box.
[Android Head-Units] edit:
The radio is controlled through MCU (as far as I know) and changing the radio chipset is not an option in my opinion . I doubt that the MCU knows how to handle a different radio chip. In theory it might be programmed to know how to handle different chipset but there is no one here with the needed expertise to do that.
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
isn't the amp chip controlled by mcu as well?

i thought only using viper's mod bypasses that...
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
sorry, i meant 7floor's mod...not viper

check HERE
[Android Head-Units] surfer63:
There is nothing wrong with this philips radio chip AFAIK, but the total handling within the head unit and the software around it is not very good with quite some development errors in the RDS part.

Reception is OK for me, but I got an ampifier cable delivered for my Skoda. It came with the unit.
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
i have the same antenna adapter, reception is good in the city, but outside it starts to die. Also some weaker stations do sound crap (with dropouts and hisses) also in the city where signal should be plenty. With OEM i don't have any of this...also the sound is a bit muffled, kind of not using the whole audio frequency spectrum/range as the MP3 / Media player app. EQ settings are the same for both, being globally set, so i suspect it's something in the processing or the chip itself...or maybe FM output is not passed thru the IC Amp chip?

i am running a 250W crunch amp dedicated to a Vibe Audio 10" subwoofer, so lows should not be a prob.

one question: does the EQ in Joying Sofia units support SUB controls of any kind?
[Android Head-Units] edit:
In the last firmware they implemented an SW slider in the audio EQ settings section... The unit has an SW out on the back for an dedicated external amplifier... In theory it should work... Haven't tested
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Ownice c500 uses that ;)
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
yea but it has TEF6686 for FM radio :)

besides the UI looks retarded compared to Joying...
[Android Head-Units] spadesluck:
RCA Outs?

I saw different answers to the question about affecting the RCA output. Does changing this chip affect the RCA outputs or not? Thank you
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
All outputs go through the same chip. Only thing not affected is USB. So yes, RCA should be improved also.
[Android Head-Units] spadesluck:
Thank you for the clarification :good:
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
[MENTION=442915]bogdi1988[/MENTION] i'm going to bit the bullet and attempt to replace TDA7388 with PA2030A on a 8" Joying rk3188 with android 5.1.1.

I got the chip already and will go later on today to a guy with soldering & electronics skillZ to do the job.

Question: is it just a straight "old out, new in" job? Do the onboard capacitors suffice for the power of the new PA2030A? Anything else to be changed/replaced/enhanced?

I have 4ohm factory speakers and a subwoofer in the trunk powered by a dedicated 250W amp (2ch bridged into 1). I guess i should hear some improvement, right? :) Also hope to get some more life into the FM radio output sound by doing this mod...(as it sounds really lifeless, limited on freq range somehow, compared to other mp3/youtube, even with the default tda7388 installed)

thanks!
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Yup! Plug and play. Pull old one out, solder new one in. Make sure all soldering looks clean and you are done. You should hear some improvement at the higher volume. At least I noticed some. :D

I think FM might stay the same though :(
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
thx. i left the update for tomorrow, been a long enough day...

and for some reason, from what i read: TEF6686 is a better FM radio chip than TDA7786...can someone who understands chips have a look at the two and state which may be better and why? and i wonder if it can be simply replaced....

LE; found THIS link post #341 with useful info about FM tuners, esp. the 2 above
[Android Head-Units] reggiexp:
damn those internals look tiny lol

the radio must weight nothing.

not even a heatsink xD (i was maybe interesed in a 1din radio) but seeing those tiny internals lol i like euh doest look promising like in sound quality. (i use external sub with amplifier and maybe speakers depends on my car)

but 320euro is much for a radio who might sound ****.
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
performed the amp swap, it took a while because the old one was harder than expected to remove....destroyed some circuit paths in the process, but re-did them with wires and soldered the new PA2030A in.

what a difference!!!! the most remarkable improvement is in FM radio, the sound is now...fuller, more range, clearer. Reception quality is of course not affected, but that was not expected :)

using media (mp3/flac/youtube/etc) the highs and lows are clean and clear...can't say about loudness since i don't use the slider past 13-14 (half way thru) because it's way too loud.

i really don't understand why the chinese didn't solder 7851 or 2030A in the first place instead of 7388....the PA2030A costs 6 USD ffs, imagine the price if one buys bulk quantities...
[Android Head-Units] bogdi1988:
Woohoo! Glad you like it!
[Android Head-Units] PsychoMcSatan:
I think I wrecked some circuit paths as I have no sound after swap. I can trace the few on the bottom of the board that go straight to the Joying connector and they seem okay, but I'm not sure how I can verify the other ones. You didn't happen to keep notes on the circuits that you rewired did you?
[Android Head-Units] marchnz:
The implementation - the section of components in the tuned RF - Id say selectivity AND sensitivity has been compromised by the Chinese developing the unit to work with a wide tuning range, i.e. japanese and European frequency ranges.

Some of the design choices in these units is either wrong or laughable. Case in point - audio pass filters as described in other threads affecting FM quality, plainly wrong choices in implementing external mic by parallel connection to the internal. These units may have quality SOCs, ICs but are compromised by implementation .

---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------

NO. RCA outputs are pre poweramp in the audio chain.

---------- Post added at 05:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:35 PM ----------

That's a guess. No, changing the power amp does not affect the pre outs.
[Android Head-Units] spadesluck:
Does make sense becasue the Mosfet chip is an amp for the signal. Pre-outs are exactly what they say, pre-amped signals to an amp to be boosted. Thanks again for the replies, thats what this is for to ask questions and get clarification.
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
sorry no. did it together with a guy who knows what he's doing, he took over at some point but no idea what he did afterwards.

all i know was i had 3 or 4 damaged paths after trying for over an hour to remove the old amp...it was a b#@$, multilayered board, the chinese core-solder material refused to melt and be drained away, so we had to use tons to dillute it...

next project, if the guy's nerves are up to it: remove the 2x512GB and install 2x1GB RAM chips :)
[Android Head-Units] marchnz:
I get the 2gb mod, this amp mod, seems to be placebo affect. Think about this - for a doubling of perceived audio output - power amp has to be 3x. For those that want to improve dtnamic headroom, this involves adding power amps and speakers capable of handling new power levels, not likely achieved by upgrading the power amp IC which might yield a few watts RMS additional - but I seriously doubt it given the 12v supply rails.

TLDR - install power amps and speakers capable of handling the required power.
[Android Head-Units] PsychoMcSatan:
Really? This would be good news if my internal DAC traces are borked. Do you think the pre-outs will still function if there's no power amp IC connected? I've got the radio out of my car right now, but I should be getting my UAC202 USB DAC today or tomorrow. It appears to have RCA as well as USB for input so I will test this out.
[Android Head-Units] PsychoMcSatan:
Okay, this may be a really dumb question, but is this chip just an amp or is it also a digital audio converter? I'm starting to think that it's just an amp which means my RCA line outs should still be fine and I could just attach those to an external car amplifier, no?
[Android Head-Units] PsychoMcSatan:
So after stressing out for a few days, thinking I may have destroyed my $400 radio, I'm up and running again.

I ended up getting a 400W 4-channel external amp from Amazon and hooking up to the pre-outs and it sounds incredible. I honestly thought my hearing was gone in my old age so music in the car was really only for drowning out the kids and news. But now I just spent an hour in my garage blasting out tunes from my youth. I can't compare to the PA2030A as I never did get it going, but there's absolutely no comparison between this very entry level external amp and the stock output. Not only power, but also way clearer at all volumes.

The only downside is that instead of an internal IC, I now have a cigar-box sized brick. Luckily it fit with millimeters to spare in my dash compartment.
[Android Head-Units] joshnat:
Hey Psycho, which amp did you buy and what kind of car do you have? Did you clip the speaker wires from the harness and attach them to the amp directly?

Is this the amp: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004S50ZDA
[Android Head-Units] PsychoMcSatan:
Yeah, I clipped the speaker wires on the Joying harness. I then connected the amp outputs to my car's harness for the speakers (the wires to which the Joying harness had been connected). I've got a Taurus X and went with a Pyle amp (similar specs to the one you linked).
[Android Head-Units] krankedcaraudio:
ummm

ummm in short whats the point? surely if you were that serious on sound and specs you would be running external amps. Gains of but a few watts, nothing to bother with esoecially on stock speakers.
[Android Head-Units] marchnz:
Agree. Also, I dont see any before-after bench tests listing power output, THD, response etc which would prove benefit. From the spec sheets, the gains are very small as are limited by the 13.5v supply rails.

As equally anecdotal is that the pioneer chips are probably a result of manufacturer binning process and labeled 'pioneer.'

Also good luck buying these ICs from anywhere other than an authorised Pioneer spare parts supplier as otherwise are likely to be counterfeit, and you will run the risk of replacing the amp IC with the original spec part or lower spec 7833.
[Android Head-Units] zerozoneice:
as equally anecdotal, my ears feel the difference straight away. not to say the guy who soldered it was like "wow" it's clearly better.

so go dissing somewhere else unless u got something useful to add to this thread.

here's an idea: replace ur amps and run some benches for everyone to see what the perceived difference is about

then again, if you're both that serious on sound, then u're clearly in the wrong part of XDA, since we're talking china stuff here not Pioneer or Marantz.
[Android Head-Units] Clandaries:
Can someone post a link to the AMP i can take for my Joying device?

Thank you :)
[Android Head-Units] marchnz:
Great that you can hear a difference and get some enjoyment out of modifying your unit, that is great.

All Ive read so far have been annecdotes based on placebo effect.

Im interested because annecdotes, opinions or endorsements dont speak to facts.

Did you obtain the pioneer IC from an authorised Pioneer spare parts supplier? Assume you understand what counterfeit parts are and what binning is?

Note that power gains are very minimal and I note that the Pioneer AMP IC has no discernable frequence response differences. These are facts based on manufacturer data sheets and not opinions.

Perhaps ask your 'wow' guy to test, its incredibly easy to do with a reference signal, load and oscilloscope.

Re. Your comment "talking china stuff here not Pioneer or Marantz" are you sure, because my understanding is that you're claiming the Pioneer Amp IC once installed in your Chinese headunit provides discernable benefit in terms of sound over the original STMicroelectronics part, which is also used in quality branded car audio too - am I wrong about that?

Again, great you get enjoyment from this mod.
[Android Head-Units] Wilk7:
Some measurements between Pioneer and TDA

Hi, I also installed a Pioneer chip (bought direct from Pioneer). Did a couple of measurements with a sweeping audio wav file. Must say not much different when looking on the Oscilloscope. Could I hear any difference, not a change as 24 hours elapsed before I fired it up again. Sorry the time base on the 78Hz files was not set to the same settings.
[Android Head-Units] marchnz:
Hi, thanks for these tests, well done.

We could potentially determine power output if we know the parameters

- what was the powersupply voltage

- where all channels loaded

- what was the load and load resistance

- input signal v peak-peak

- measurement procedure - did you take max and back off when obvious distortion was seen, or some other method to determine max power output?

Regards.
[Android Head-Units] Wilk7:
Hi

I did not have High Wattage Resistors with me so I just used the 4 Ohm Speakers (all channels, and those tests was at Max output. I didn't intent to do accurate measurements and was expecting a big difference as from the feedback on the forum. The Voltage was 12.2V on an external PSU. The input P-P Voltage I don't know as it is just a waw file a downloaded from the Internet, can send you the link. I can do proper test on the Pioneer if its is you would like me to, but not on the TDA as already removed. After that I googled a bit on the Pioneer chip specs, and it is rated 22W @ 4Ohm.
[Android Head-Units] marchnz:
Hi,

Thanks for the info. Im confused by the results because the RMS power into 4ohm speakers comes out at:

Pioneer = 15.4w RMS

TDA IC = 14.85w RMS.

There's nothing in it, certainly no "wow" :)

So, would you mind atleast with the Pioneer IC, v supply @ 13.43, 1KHZ sine wave (there are some cool apps to generate this) and back off the volume from where clipping is seen (i.e. flattening of the sine wave/going square) and letting me know the sine wave peak to peak voltage? Hope you're using old speakers for this!
[Android Head-Units] Wilk7:
Will do that, unfortunately just received call that my mother are ill, and fly out to home country later today. When I will be back will do that, maybe a week, 2 or 3.

---------- Post added at 07:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 AM ----------

No, around 20V P-P voltage, 5V/dev. That was at 78Hz
[Android Head-Units] marchnz:
Sorry to hear your mother is unwell.

Thanks for clarification on output levels, I have updated my post above and here:

14.85w RMS - TDA (stmicro)

15.40w RMS - Pioneer

Wonder if pioneer might be sourcing STmicro ICs with lower RDSon to achieve higher outputs (binning process) with STmicro manufacturing and labelling them as Pioneer parts.
[Android Head-Units] Wilk7:
OK done tests with Pioneer Chip

Supply Voltage 13.43V

4 Ohm fixed resistors all channels, same levels, EQ all on 0, Aux input both channels.

Head Units set at Max 36

Used Signal Generator. Adjusted Signal Gen level just before clipping, was around 750mV P-P
[Android Head-Units] Beatwolf:
So what does this show? no discernible difference?
[Android Head-Units] tangoman99:
Apologies if I mess up this thread, but I'm following this with interest having just acquired a JY-VM130N2 - replacement (upgrade) as my original Joying unit JY-VQ122 failed.

So this isn't JY-VM130N2D (with the inbuilt digital amp) - but slightly confusing as surely it must still have an amp?

So is this thread about the Joying units with the built-in amps - i.e the "D" models, or the basic models?

Thanks
[Android Head-Units] edit:
It's about the old models not about the new fancy AMP+ multi band EQ.