yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[X Style (Pure) General] Praeceps:
I replaced mine with a Oneplus 5T new for £300. It took a while getting used to but I'm quite happy with it now. I'd recommend it for those who aren't going to miss the stereo front facing speakers.
[X Style (Pure) General] pizza_pablo:
Or those that don't use CDMA. ;)

I'd love to try out a One Plus phone.
[X Style (Pure) General] Bill720:
A realistic alternative... for those willing to give up Big Red

So many OEMs skip this step and then wonder why hardly anyone buys their phones. I'm thinking of switching to AT&T myself, (one of their prepaids/MVNOs) which will dramatically open up the scope of available choices.

With that in mind - If I needed to replace the Pure Edition in the near future, I'd try a T-Mobile LG V10. It's got AT&T compatibility, an easily unlocked bootloader, great screen, great sound, (supposed to have) great cameras, standby access to flashlight/camera thanks to its second screen, and Android 7.0, (which provides the sweet spot of Xposed Framework, multi-window, and night mode - a combination that no other version of Android can match). It's even got a few nifty (but still optional) perks that the MXPE lacks, such as an infrared transceiver, fingerprint scanner, HDMI output, and user-replaceable battery pack. They're also selling pretty inexpensively now. I've never gone hands-on with one, but it's a solid alternative on paper.
[X Style (Pure) General] pizza_pablo:
I think many manufacturers don't want to do what's necessary to cover our CDMA, in the states, when they sell many phones throughout the world.

Before getting the OG Pixel XL to play with, I was about to get an LG G6, but the more I read about rooting it, the more it seemed like it was not easy or something I wanted to deal with.

Then I found the Pixel is a beast to ROM and root, with its two partitions and several extra steps I wasn't familiar with.
[X Style (Pure) General] Bill720:
also...

They also tend to neglect domestic LTE bands.
[X Style (Pure) General] D.Spirit:
Smartisan R1
[X Style (Pure) General] Hitti2:
What is out there as for front facing speakers?

Allowing:

Boot unlock for rooting.

Big display.

Great battery life.

Front facing speakers.

Good camera, front and back.

Oreo or P.

Always on latest update.

Etc.
[X Style (Pure) General] acejavelin:
Your choice is pretty much Pixel 2 XL and that's it right now with your list of requirements.
[X Style (Pure) General] Hitti2:
Heard rumors the speakers are bad.
[X Style (Pure) General] acejavelin:
Maybe... I don't know, but it is the only phone out there that meets all your requirements. Pick one of the highlighted options above and take it out of your requirements and the list gets slightly longer, but this combination just isn't out there anymore.
[X Style (Pure) General] Hitti2:
:( sad. Some one company needs to come out with an upgraded version of MXPE, Snapdragon 845, 4k+ mAh bat, front facing speakers "good ones", big display etc so on so forth.

Thanks bud.
[X Style (Pure) General] acejavelin:
I totally forgot about HTC... that may actually be a viable choice here. The HTC U12+ is pretty good device that meets all your requirements, but it's gonna cost you around $800 USD,.. Oh, but don't worry, because HTC has a convenient financing plan to help you out there. :) Don't get me wrong, I am old HTC fanboy from way back, they make great devices.

But you're not wrong... but the reality is bootloader unlocking is becoming a thing of the past with few exceptions like Pixel/Nexus, Essential, and OnePlus models, and a handful of models by Moto, HTC, LG, and Sony. Even Huawei has discontinued their bootloader unlocking program, which used to pretty open to such things. In the US, Verizon and AT&T have iron glad agreements with OEMs that the bootloaders on phones they sell with their brand on it cannot have the bootloaders unlocked, and honestly expect T-Mobile and Sprint to the same soon.

Updates from most manufacturers has gotten spotty at best, except Google, OnePlus, and Nokia... Although some still support their flagships with regular updates, pretty much anything under that level is lagging behind, some pretty significantly.

Front facing speakers are not really that hard to find, until you add your other requirements.

The real problem is the market... Enthusiasts that want to root and really want regular updates are few and far between, if I recall the number was literally so insignificant that if enthusiasts quite buying smartphones altogether, OEM's wouldn't even notice (well under 1% of total sales). And it is getting worse... partially because Android is getting better and people have less incentive to unlock and modify their devices, or go through the hassle of doing it, take your pick because both apply. As far as updates go, most consumers just want their phone to work, and they don't really care if they are on the July 2018 security patch, or if get upgraded from P to Oreo because things might change (OMG NO!) and they just want it to work. If it works they don't care about anything else. It seems like a lot of people when you look at forums like XDA, but there can't be more than 500 users in this group now and at this devices peak there was maybe 5K enthusiasts (being generous) out of roughly 1.5 million devices sold worldwide (an educated guess, seeings as Lenovo doesn't release sales numbers of devices but it is easy to find that the original Moto X sales were about 1.5M so I am guessing roughly the same), that makes our market 0.33% of the total sales volume. Meaning it is NOTHING to manufacturers, so it is their logic to not bother supporting such small percentage of customers wants when it is actually more of hassle to them.
[X Style (Pure) General] aybarrap1:
Hate to say it, but [MENTION=2001582]acejavelin[/MENTION] is correct. There is only one phone out there to meet these requirements at this time. Your last defined requirement pretty much limits you to Pixel and A1 devices or using custom ROMs. I did a battery replacement on my MXPE to tide me over another year while I decide what I'm willing to give up.
[X Style (Pure) General] Hitti2:
What mAh bat are you using now for the mxpe? Got a link to the battery?
[X Style (Pure) General] pizza_pablo:
My list of requirements is shorter, but I have one of two that shorten the list, dramatically.

Verizon compatible

Boot unlock for rooting.

Big display.

Great battery life.

Supports Xposed & Substratum

*Front fingerprint scanner

Is there anything, besides the Moto Z2 Play that fits?

I'm hoping for CDMA and bootloader unlock for the Motorola Power One.
[X Style (Pure) General] aybarrap1:
It is a 3000mAh bat I got off eBay. It is a legit OEM as far as I can tell as it has been going strong for a few months now. Here is the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/282918528910
[X Style (Pure) General] acejavelin:
Nope... and not likely to get more. The front fingerprint scanner seems to be moving to the back on almost every device. And CDMA support limits it to Moto and Pixel and that's it, and other brands are not likely to support it in the future.

Oh, and to be honest... I could see Moto going the way of not unlocking bootloaders either. Over the past 5 years, almost every manufacturer has quite doing that. or stopped doing it for all but a few select devices. Huawei was always a good supporter of unlocking and to a lesser extent the development community, but last month without notice they permanently shutdown their bootloader unlocking service and severed all ties with the development community.

As I have said before, this is the trend... it's happening because we (the enthusiast community) are getting smaller and smaller and literally amount to an infinitesimally small market share for manufacturers... I fully expect all but Google Pixel, OnePlus, other niche OEMs, and a few select "developer edition" models from various manufacturers, will be unable to be unlocked and completely unrootable in the next few years. And those few devices will cost a premium price. At one time it was said that the enthusiast community was around 2%-3% of all Android smartphone sales (think Eclair~Gingerbread era), but now it amounts to tenths or maybe even hundredths of one percent of the market.
[X Style (Pure) General] pizza_pablo:
Well, if rootability goes away, that would mean no more Substratum. I guess I would have to resort to a Samsung phone, because those are the only that have theming to get rid of all the white backgrounds. Hopefully, they are making a flat screen phone, by then. (eyes looking up)
[X Style (Pure) General] 2be3_80:
Hey,

I have switched to Huawei P10 due to must of dual SIM.

I miss front facing speakers, but other than that it satisfies my needs. As for theming it has very good support with various of options, I also hate white backgrounds - it's a pain in the eyes at evening and night.

It is very smooth, opening apps very quickly.

What suits me most is aggressive management of battery draining apps in background. No more Google play services eating your battery.

Fingerprint reader is blazing fast.

I'm getting mostly about 4 h - 4.5 h SOT, which with 5.1 inch display is so so.

As for security updates I'm getting it every 2 months. 2 days ago updated with July security patch.

It is a shame that they shut down bootloader unlock possibility, but I have managed to gain code before that. Still have more than 2 years of warranty so I'm not going to use it in near future.

Cheers.

Still kept my MXPE as 2nd for navigation (great device though).
[X Style (Pure) General] jason2678:
I'd decided I was going to just keep my MXP until it died, because there isn't anything compelling enough to spend a few hundred bucks on. Unfortunately, it's dead.

So I'm in the market for a replacement (although my old i747 with a fresh install of BrokenOS on it doesn't have me in a huge hurry). I'm looking at an Essential phone for $380 or a 128 GB OnePlus 3T for $440. The lack of 3.5 mm jack on the Essential phone bugs me and then there's that notch, and I'm also leery of the small community after coming from this phone not to mention the state of affairs at Essential in general. However, paying an extra $60 on tech that's one year older with an SD821 instead of an SD835 just to tap into a large development community is a little irksome too. What do you guys think?

[MENTION=2001582]acejavelin[/MENTION] you're always schooled up on this stuff, what are your thoughts?
[X Style (Pure) General] jason2678:
Thanks. I'd thought about one of the Moto G's, but I'm a little torqued off at Moto at the moment. Seeing one for ~$200 under what I'm looking at is pretty compelling, though. My daughter has a G4 and it has been a great phone. I honestly think it has been an overall better phone with the SD6xx in it, vs the SD808 in my MXP.

I haven't given Nokia a proper chance due to their lack of a bootloader unlock policy. I don't use root for much anymore. Really just pie controls, and suppose I could live without those. DNS66 can take care of rootless/TWRPless adblocking. With devices with "lightly skinned" or stock Android it's not like the Samsung ICS/JB days when getting Touchwiz off a device was a breath of fresh air, but there are a few custom ROM features I would really miss like I much prefer Ambient display to Moto display, Quick pulldown, and all the little UI tweaks.

I'm definitely not a flashaholic anymore, though. I hadn't messed with the ROM on my old MXP in about 8 months.
[X Style (Pure) General] acejavelin:
Yeah, to be honest I haven't been real happy with Moto lately either... their updates, or rather lack of them, are the infuriating part. I would only get another Moto if CDMA is required for Verizon or Sprint, otherwise it would be a Nokia 6.1 right now. It's not unlockable, but it's on Oreo 8.1 and never more than 2-3 weeks behind in security updates, so I'm good with it.
[X Style (Pure) General] jason2678:
Do you happen to know if they're still making the G5s? With the G6 out, I'm thinking they might be just selling off the old ones. They still have it for sale, but only the gold one. Gray is "out of stock", and I'm wondering if that translates to out of production and gone for good. I'm not finding anything but the international version new elsewhere.

Moto still has the G5s Plus in a tolerable color, but it's getting up close enough to Essential phone $$$, that I'd rather just shell out the extra $60 or so to give the middle finger to Moto and have a phone that just got Andriod P.
[X Style (Pure) General] acejavelin:
Best Buy has them in stock for $250 for the 4/64 version. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/motoro...e-unlocked-lunar-gray/6053500.p?skuId=6053500

Many stores stock them still... Mine has one. It is out of production but since Moto seems to drop new G series devices every 6 months, I'm not sure it matters.
[X Style (Pure) General] pizza_pablo:
No shipping cost and no tax if you're not in NY or NJ.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1357013-REG/motorola_pa6r0002us_moto_g5s_plus_64gb.html
[X Style (Pure) General] jason2678:
Thanks for digging that up guys. I just can't. Between this phone's premature demise and the whole update situation, I'm done with Moto. Motorola is dead. Lenovo killed another good brand. RIP Motorola. RIP Thinkpad. Thanks for the memories.

My old S3 is actually kind of refreshing. I'm not in a hurry to replace it. The smaller size is a lot easier in the pocket and I missed the notification LED. I wish it had a little more power, but it's not terrible for normal use. It needs a new battery something fierce, but that's easily handled on this phone (I actually have two batteries, but they're both oooold and shot).

Essential phone sold for $250 on Prime Day. I'm thinking I might wait it out and see if it gets steeply discounted again on Black Friday.

I'm still attached to unlockable bootloaders. Pixels are overpriced and just don't appeal to me, and Moto is dead to me. Hauwei/Honor's Kirin was never exactly developer friendly, and now they've shut down bootloader unlocking. I feel like I'm pretty much boxed in to Essential and OnePlus.
[X Style (Pure) General] pizza_pablo:
In that case, I'd go with One Plus, for the larger community, development and accessory availability.

I'd love to to a One Plus phone, but no US CDMA support. :crying:
[X Style (Pure) General] Bill720:
Q3 Dialog

I'm not as worried about the notch or headphone jack thing as I am the signal strength problems on that phone. Otherwise, it's not far off the mark for Pure Edition priorities (Verizon compatibility, LCD screen, unlockable bootloader, acceptable design [except for those nasty rounded corners on the screen]).

I totally agree on the topic of chipset efficiency, (even though the Pure Edition is still quite acceptable) but it's very difficult to beat the Pure Edition's screen and camera. I keep the brightness at 50% and have had no issues with "decimated" battery life. I maintain that it's still one of the best screens ever to be seen on a mobile device in general, let alone in this pricepoint.

That said, Pure Editions are holding their value better than anyone expected, which is a strike against it. I've mentioned this before, (possibly even in this thread) but it deserves repeating - the LG V10 (which can match the Pure Edition in most areas, except for Verizon compatibility and bootlocker unlockability - you can only have one or the other) sells for significantly less, and its trick with the secondary screen makes the lack of motion gestures much easier to handle. If my Pure Edition dropped dead today, the V10 would be a strong contender for quick and economical replacement, at least on paper.

As for the camera thing, the Pure Edition has ruined me for smartphone cameras. I can't go back to "mid-rangers" or bad cameras. The level of detail captured is simply magnificent. I would've never thought that the optics would be up to it, but it performs remarkably well, and I'd still take its camera over any of the newest non-flagship-tier devices.

Personally, I just don't care anymore. The newest smartphones are just so outlandishly ugly & expensive, and depreciate so rapidly that I can't imagine any usage case that would make sense for me. Also, I work full time now and therefore don't have the time to tweak every little thing to death. I'm at a point where it needs to "just work," and the Pure Edition (with the stock Rom, root, and Xposed Framework) meets that qualification quite nicely.
[X Style (Pure) General] acejavelin:
You were one of lucky ones then, or I had a lemon...
[X Style (Pure) General] SMMmmm:
After searching for budget phones, I've come across the Xiaomi Redmi Note 5.

I've especially considered this for the batt. (I think all MXPE users can feel the pain of a poor batt.).

According to a few reviews, the camera, screen, and build quality are decent.

It uses the MIUI, but official Lineage 15.1 is already available for this, so that shouldn't be a major issue. What might be is, it doesn't have any warranty.

Although Xiaomi is a pretty reputed Chinese brand, I personally know 3 guys who use Xiaomi phones, and they've never complained about any manufacturing defects or faults, so I think the lack of a warranty also shouldn't be a major issue.
[X Style (Pure) General] acejavelin:
If you are in the US, keep a close eye on LTE band support... That's usually where there is a problem with Xiaomi, and most Chinese devices.
[X Style (Pure) General] SMMmmm:
I am currently in the US on cricket wireless network. About the band support, I found this online: http://www.china-prices.com/phone/bands/11551/xiaomi-redmi-note-5-pro

Is this sufficient enough for LTE support? I am very annoyed with MXPE now and can't spend more than ~$220 for a phone in case my MXPE (barely getting about 1.5 hrs of SoT) dies... :(
[X Style (Pure) General] acejavelin:
No, that page is wrong... According to GSMarena's page for the Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro

NETWORK

Technology: GSM / HSPA / LTE

2G bands: GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900 - SIM 1 & SIM 2

3G bands: HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1900 / 2100

4G bands: LTE band 1(2100), 3(1800), 5(850), 40(2300), 41(2500)

Speed	HSPA, LTE

GPRS	Yes

EDGE	Yes

2G is not relevant, AT&T (Cricket's hosting network) turned it off a long time ago.

3G/HSPA is probably OK, AT&T uses 850/1900Mhz

4G/LTE is the problem, AT&T uses Bands 2, 4, 5, 12, 14, 17, 29, 30, 40, 66 (generally 2, 4, 5, and 12/17, the rest are expansion bands for high traffic areas)

The issue is that the only overlapping LTE band is 5, which isn't everywhere... for true compatibility you should have a minimum of LTE bands 2, 4, 5, and 17 for an AT&T (or Cricket) device or you will have connectivity issues.

In general, any phone model not designed for North America or "Global" will not work properly in the US using LTE, most will work with 3G but not all as a lot of Asian models only support 2100Mhz... But our LTE bands are significantly different than the rest of the world. And Xiaomi does not make any North American models.

From https://willmyphonework.net/ for most Xiaomi models, the answer is a resounding no for LTE. They do not list the Note 5 Pro specifically, but almost all Xiaomi Redmi devices are the same...
[X Style (Pure) General] SMMmmm:
Damn, that's a bummer! :(

I watched some more comparisons and performance vids for this phone, it is seriously good for its price! Well, so I guess there's nothing that beats this in terms of performance at this price.

The Nokia 6.1 Plus looks good, I hope they release it in the US as they did with Nokia 6.1.

Thanks a lot for your detailed explanation though, appreciate it. :)
[X Style (Pure) General] acejavelin:
Yeah, the EU and Asia get some pretty decent phones, cheap too, compared to the US... Our market is controlled by carriers with contracts mostly with Samsung, Apple, and LG. In most other parts of the world, carriers can't even sell phones directly, prevents collusion and monopoly, but in the US we just accept it and most people don't even know they have a choice to get their phone somewhere else. Foreign phone makers have such a small market space here, most avoid it.
[X Style (Pure) General] Oliie23:
Right now probably the best option and the closest to what MXPE was at release is OnePlus 6. Also close is Xiaomi Mi8
[X Style (Pure) General] tech_infinity:
Xiaomi's Poco F1 looks good for 21000 rupees(300 dollars):-

SD845, 6GB RAM. 64GB internal and good camera.

Quick Charge 3.0

6 inch full HD+ display.
[X Style (Pure) General] Bill720:
Lemon

I would guess the latter.
[X Style (Pure) General] aybarrap1:
I think the camera has been pretty good on the device but I have a better low light experience with a third party camera app. Sadly, Moto phones have always been mediocre with their camera and post processing comparable to other brands.

But I don't think all mid range phones necessarily have a lesser camera experience. The optics may not be the most up to date, but many take perfectly acceptable photos, especially if one isn't always just trying to catch pictures on the fly. If the superior camera experience is what someone is looking for, $550+ is pretty much the current going rate for phones with this capability. I personally just can't justify paying this much.
[X Style (Pure) General] Bill720:
Used phone advice

I don't really bother with those third-party apps, as the stock is actually pretty decent, even if it is lacking in features. I've never found the camera hardware to be all that far behind. Generally speaking, anything that isn't a high-end phone will have a crummy sensor. Anything that isn't a proper camera (aka all smartphones) will have suboptimal optics.

In that case, buy used. It's the only way to go.
[X Style (Pure) General] pizza_pablo:
Checkout swappa.com
[X Style (Pure) General] Bill720:
Buying used is the only way to win!

Between that, Craiglist, and especially eBay, you have a wealth of excellent choices for used devices that are better in most every way (except battery life) than buying new low-end devices, and often just as inexpensive.
[X Style (Pure) General] slim6596:
Spoke to soon. Got sick of the snowflake mentality of iPhone people. Swapped it for a Note 9
[X Style (Pure) General] pizza_pablo:
Update: since leaving the MXPE, for good, I've gone Moto Z2 Play (12 months) stock-rooted Nougat

- OG Pixel XL (3 months), OK, rooted, flashed ROMs but not impressed

- LG G6 (1 month), rooted found a great ROM, but no VoLTE on any ROM. That and the power button on the back were deal breakers

- Pixel 2 XL (1 month) - I thought this was the phone I really wanted and waited until they became reasonably priced on Swappa - never did get around to rooting it, because no Dolby Atmos was available and I was really unimpressed with it as a whole.

- Samsung Galaxy Note 9 (2 months and counting) - not only unrootable, but a carrier version! Verizon, but hardly any bloat and only 1 app that could not be removed or disabled (VZW Voicemail). I got a Note 9 for the wife and after researching the purchase and setting it up for her, I was really enamored. Once I found out there was a version with 8GB RAM it was game over. I'm really happy with it and the biggest reasons I root are available, stock. Dolby Atmos and theming.

ETA, five months later, I'm still digging the Note 9 and don't really miss root. I found a way (AdHell3 app) to disable OS update apps, in order to stay on Oreo, which I'm very happy with. Not interested in the changes and bugs of Pie.
[X Style (Pure) General] aybarrap1:
LoL... Talk about jumping around. Glad you found something you like.
[X Style (Pure) General] pizza_pablo:
I've come to grips with my phone addiction. :o

I'm a case junkie too, but there are way more expensive addictions.;)

BTW, I lived in Jacksonville, for eleven years (1989 - 2000). LOVE THAT TOWN!

Didn't want to leave!
[X Style (Pure) General] aybarrap1:
Phone addiction was hard to get over for me.

I've been in Jacksonville going on 12 years now. I can't see myself leaving unless the right type of job offer comes up.
[X Style (Pure) General] pizza_pablo:
For me, God and the US Navy had other plans.

I see you had Tellus and Rogers service at one time. Canadian?
[X Style (Pure) General] aybarrap1:
No. Just spent a year or so up that way. Too cold for my taste.