yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Topics] Mazda:
You should read my first post again. I kept the two part and didn't mention anything with jerdog as far as repo sync warriors.

Did I tell you go kick rocks just a few minutes ago when you wanted access to our private chat? You bet your ass I did! Hahaha I'm not adding you to a chat that's considered a chill zone for most developers and themers. A place where we talk about things, personal things and we trust one another.

Nobody trusts you. Notice that besides the Carbon chat, you're always invited to public chat? Hahaha we do t trust you. You're a snitch.

Anyways, my point still stands and PLENTY of known developers and themers agree with me. The majority of the people contributing to the pot want their work protected and not subject to abuse from people seeking glory and donations.
[General Topics] MSF Jarvis:
I feel this stems from the fact that there is lack of developers on the moderator panel just like [MENTION=4584140]cybojenix[/MENTION] said quite early on in the discussion. And wherever there's a lack there has to be someone to fill the void. Somebody has to step up and say "Yes this site needs help to win us developers back and I will do whatever I can to help y'all". Simply going back and forth in here or anywhere, is no solution.
[General Topics] js1999:
Sure, I agree with this. We need more devs as mods. Sometimes those roles don't overlap well-- as moderation can be a boring slog of going through RPs and discussing rules and procedures with other mods. It's clearly the reason we added syko in his role. We're getting there.
[General Topics] Mazda:
If you agree that the title thing was dumb, how come is still not corrected? It took Jerdog a matter of minutes to do it so it shouldn't be that hard to undo.

Also I talked to you before only to get empty promises and bull****. You say you're trying but is just empty promises. Smoke and mirrors. Is like you're trying to run for office or something. The **** stinks man, it really does. I would love nothing more than to buy into an XDA that wants change and do things right but so far is been all talk followed up by moderators clearly showing that everything you say is bull****.

Last night was a prime example of that. You guys say you want feedback and you want to do what's right and all this but JJD, Neo, Kenny and the clan come out and clearly show that they don't want any part of that.

Let's see something because right now is just all talk. You believe in doing what's right, undo the wrong Jerdog has done. Let's see it!
[General Topics] mazwoz:
Sent you the PM. Please note that [MENTION=3125148]KennyG123[/MENTION] and I have always been able to resolve things peacefully and I only mentioned it to hopefully help provide a solution.
[General Topics] MSF Jarvis:
A step in the right direction and definitely much appreciated :good:

---------- Post added at 03:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 PM ----------

Really can't say anything against this. jerdog's ****ing up the RD title with weak excuses, (possibly intentional) misinterpretation of XDA rules, and that being done over an unofficial channel like Hangouts when everything XDA should be over XDA channels is definitely bad and should be rectified immediately. [MENTION=2154611]js1999[/MENTION] there might be people shaking their heads at Alex and probably calling him an asshat for ranting and everything BUT he makes a very valid point! What jerdog did, if justifiable (isn't to me, if my opinion even counts) , should have gone through the official channels and not a chill chat, and should have been explained properly.

Name calling and all that is being kinda detrimental to the entire thread but if blowing the steam and cleaning out past mistakes and sore points help to make the site better and more welcoming to developers, all good :o
[General Topics] js1999:
Thanks for the note. It hurts me in every possible way to have you (and any devs) upset at XDA-- so there's no reason why I wouldn't be totally genuine in my desire to get this figured out.

We got rid of the custom title a while ago. Unless I'm missing something. Do you still see it? I personally apologize to you for ever getting it in the first place. If you're asking about getting back an RD title, I can't do that. That's not true. I could technically do it. But if I start unilaterally doing stuff like that, I will lose my entire team. There's a procedure I need to respect. To be honest, I don't even know what the procedure is, but I do know that I've never handed out any title on XDA-- so I can't do it now.

Every mod you complain about below does good and valuable things for XDA every day. Do I agree with everything they do? No, but they add a ton of value to the community and literally, the whole site will fall apart if I start second-guessing mod decisions without discussion. Because they will leave-- not just the ones you don't like, all of them. I don't have the luxury of just tearing everything down.

I hear your complaints, and we're working on it. I can't make you dictator though--and though you may be the loudest, not everyone agrees with everything you say. You're a very important developer, and you make amazing, great points. You're a good guy who's frustrated. I get that, and I am listening. There's active discussion about everything brought up in this thread.
[General Topics] pstevep:
to tack on to this if I may. it's also hard for developers to be moderators just from the time component. We want developers to develop, then it's hard to also ask them to keep moving posts back and forth.

It's good to educate moderators also, it's been a good help to me to ask questions and learn from this site itself. which in turn has helped my moderation as well as my side dev projects.

Listen - we aren't here to debate jerdog. we established that last night.

We asked for feedback - there was a blowup - its been diffused. Moderators have been told to stay out of this thread, and I have asked you to stop with the direct calling out.

Please let us continue the conversation at hand that is actually progressing positively.

Things should be addressed through the proper channels, thats why they exist.

This thread isn't the proper channel to call for heads. It leads to mess.
[General Topics] Mazda:
OK so same thing as always. Thanks, you've proved that this entire thing is pointless. The moderators that came in here and attempted to shut me and everyone else down have you by the balls.

You're the owner of the site but you can't do anything? Hahaha

Then you wonder why Jerdog does the **** he does. He knows he has you by the balls. He can do whatever the hell he wants and you'll keep on singing the same song.

This is disappointing to not only myself but the many developers and themers watching right now.

When you're ready to take the site back from Jerdog and the clan, I'll support you 100 percent. Until then cut the bull**** at least be real with every here. You're just talk talk talk and nothing to show for. You can rewrite rules all day and talk about change but until you start making moves and remove the cancer that is Jerdog, it'll be the same for many.

---------- Post added at 03:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------

All respect for last night but Josh just said he's not going to do ****. Is pointless. He's too scared to lose his army of volunteers even if it means ignoring ****ed up ****.
[General Topics] :
You are right. There will definetely be devs who aren't able to use the power in a right way. But i follow this community for a while now. And i think that the report button and good words aren't enough. I've made the experience that mods get annoyed after a while if you report too much posts. And the procedure is too lenghty. Mods always have to explain their decisions. This takes too much time.

Devs left this community because they felt left alone.

There won't be a perfect solution for everyone. But some changes should be tried out.
[General Topics] pstevep:
that's not what josh said in the slightest.

He said he can't go and unilaterally make moves. which in all honesty should be respected. Because as he said he would lose the whole of the moderation staff in general, (which isn't as glorious as you think it might be). You've named out a small group of people you don't like, that's not the whole staff, and like Josh said those people do provide to this site. They are actually good dudes. Just like believe it or not I see you as a good dude, which is why i am still here, and I am still having this conversation that has been said is pointless.

mods aren't bad, they are here for the same reason as you, to make things better. things have become jaded over time. I had to take time off from being a moderator and this site at one point because I was so jaded to everything happening on the site.

This is us trying to work with you, and not just you, but the community as a whole. If you can't look past transgressions of the past then you are no better than the people you complain about. i have no grudges against you (i am getting a little tired of typing, i need to work on my lasers).

The same thing i am preaching to you I preach to everyone. IF we can't put ourselves aside for the betterment of the community then it will fail. This isn't about one person. This is about all of us.

To be frank, I don't care who has done who wrong anymore (lord knows i've been done wrong in my time here), we need to move past it and start working together. i know it's not easy, and it's something that i know a lot of people don't want to do, but if we want things to be better, then we need to be better.
[General Topics] js1999:
I promise if you looked at the totality of what all these guys do for xda and for the community, you'd see its a gigantic net positive. You simply don't see everything. Even the mods you *do* like (or are at least ok with) don't want the mods you don't like gone. You're pissed off... I can respect that. I understand this is personal for you. I'm trying to get rid of the personal animosities on both sides to separate the ideas from the hate, but that can be tough. If you want to keep unloading on me, I'm good with that. I can take it. I do wish the thread would get back to the issues, though. I can promise we will make changes as a result of this thread. Not sure it'll be everything you want or it'll happen as fast as you want.
[General Topics] Mazda:
I still think this thread is pointless because Josh is doing nothing but damage control. He knows Jerdog is ****ed up yet refuses to do anything. Bringing up that he took kids in and all this hahaha who takes kids in and then goes to twitter to brag about it? Is like celebrities that donate and then take to twitter to tell everyone how much of a nice person they are.

You're a nice person you do things and don't tweet about it.

Anyways, I send you a PM. I'm done talking to the PR machine, is going no where.

Josh you should really consider a career in politics. You got an act for lying and feeding people bull****.
[General Topics] orangekid:
I have pretty much stayed out of all this since I'm pretty busy in life these days and figured this whole thread was a very simple proposition. The higher ups wanting to get some clarity and points of view on a few points to make the site a better place.

Now Alex, you and I have always had good rapport. Mutual honesty and respect. What you do for the developer community at large can't be understated, and spans beyond XDA. But I have to say I am disappointed with how this thread has gone down. No matter what beef you have with Jerdog, it's really not fair to cast such aspersions to Josh. He really does give a damn about the community, the users, the mods and the site. He can be reached and he always gets back. He helps make things happen, and there is some serious disrespect being leveled at him. Not as XDA owner, but even as a person. He's not lying. He's not been feeding anyone any bull****, and I think you are gravely mistaken here. It takes a very strong willed person to stay out of moderation affairs. That's actually why he has the respect of the XDA staff, and it is not a weakness. I honestly think you owe him a sincere apology, but that's just me.

In your quest to avenge the unjust war between you and Jerdog, this thread has gotten off the rails completely. I know you feel targeted and that one moderator may have some vendetta against you. Taking Jerdog aside here, I can tell you people like pstevep, Neo, and KennyG pour their heart and soul into shaping this forum into some place developers want to be, and for you to take a blowtorch to that without really knowing how we operate. I am sorry if things have happened in the past between you and Jerdog, but that's honestly not what this thread is about, and twisting it for that sole issue really is a disservice to the rest of the community.

Things in this thread really need to worked out for the good of the community at large. And throwing out a straw man that nothing good is going to happen anyways is a bit of a cop out. You have to be willing to look at how you may have contributed negatively (along with all of your positive contributions that I do acknowledge) too. It needs to be a fair give & take. To be perfectly frank, I feel you're being a little unreasonable here.

And we all need to come to some good resolutions, starting with appointing Syko to his role, which i think is a great idea. GPL, Development, Android etc, these things go beyond XDA. We all know that. XDA is just a unified collection of developers and their works, and an amazing one at that. The mods here WANT to do what is best for the community, period. We would not be here if we weren't. This thread would not exist if not for that. And if you really actually believe this entire endeavor is a mere subterfuge then there is nothing I or anyone can say that is going to change your mind. But that would be an extreme waste of my time, and I don't have enough as it is to waste on charades.

We need to get this thread back on track to real issues.
[General Topics] jotha:
It's sad to see a single person and story dominating a thread that was obviously started to change things for the better by collecting points of view to some clearly defined questions.. I say this without knowing whether those personal grievances are valid (which they might be or totally not) and not caring about that question. The thread was not titled "Tell us about your hardships on xda and we might work smth out" and I guess it wasn't meant that way. It was a single list of questions which could be answered totally disconnected from any past story.

I think as long as there are always ppl (on all sides of the ball) that mix personal stories in every topic, all objective discussions will be watered down and derailed.

On topic, my opinion is that the rules should have been simplified long ago to a status where every code is fair game to be used and altered, as long as there is proper credit. There is no point in "copyrighting" a piece of code that was passed on basically since the first custom roms and just adapted marginally for the different devices over the years by dev after dev.

I don't think OP's should have more moderating rights than they have now and I think it would be great if that donations-thing would go away completely, although that will never happen. I think if a dev wants to monetize on his work (which is perfectly fine with me as long as he really owns that work, i.e. really has created it from scratch) he should make a normal market approach, so sell his work somehow, not ask for donations.

Peace
[General Topics] mazwoz:
Please understand that many developers are developing truly original stuff and it is not just small changes from the first original custom ROM. Look at what teams like DU are doing. Things like pulse and the updater app are 100% original work. Please don't down play contributions by developers.
[General Topics] jotha:
I don't downplay any original work and explicitely said that I am very fine with monetarizing on original work. But aside from monetarizing, what use would not allowing others to use that work have for a dev, as long as that use must come properly credited and WITHOUT the possibility to monetarize it?

My POV is: So you wrote a piece of software? Fine, so either sell it (make money from it) and in this case keep all rights to yourself, or give it to the community to build on it, under the premises that you are properly credited and the user doesn't make money from it. In my eyes there is no third way that makes sense.

It's a personal opinion though.
[General Topics] mazwoz:
The problem isn't allowing what is open source, the problem is uses, not developers, posting incomplete work against the developers wishes. Things that have bugs or just aren't finished and that causes issues. Another thing is compiling an official device and posting it simply for the thanks and donations.

Please reread everything that was said about all of this and what you originally said. Your original comment massively downplayed original work in ROMs (100% open and few to use) as nothing more then small changes of coffee from the original custom ROM.

This is getting off topic, but seriously... Take a good hard look at what you actually said and think about how developers will take that.
[General Topics] jotha:
I am sorry, I understand not much of what you said here, most probably because it was massively autocorrected to the worse. But I have read all that was said in this thread and have meant all I said as I said it. Like it or not. As long as a developer does not copyright his completely original work for business reasons, it should be free to use for whomever as long as it stays free and open and the original developer stays properly credited and clearly identifiable. That's my personal opinion, whether you like and approve it or not. And in that context it does not matter at all how the devs take that. Everybody would be in the same position. Use what you want, give proper credit and do not make money from other peoples work. The rules would be easy and clear, tons of disputes would be avoided.
[General Topics] _that:
I don't need to copyright my work for "business reasons" - as a developer I can choose to license my original code under whatever license I want even if I wrote it just for fun.

That would be something like CC-BY-NC-SA. Other licenses have different rules. And as mazwoz said, there are still some uses of code that don't violate the license but are still problematic. The licenses are the minimum, XDA should have stricter rules when needed.
[General Topics] Mazda:
Look at the end of the day XDA is going to view things a certain way. They view me the bad guy because why not right? I got a big mouth and I point out shady ****. I'm fine with that. I'm not on here to win any popularity contests.

What I want is simple. I want senior moderators to look into the issue I have. I know many of people including now the owner of the site has come up and has taken **** on it because he believes his pet Jerdog hasn't done anything wrong.

Ask the right questions here.

Ask 'why did Alex Cruz aka Mazda lose his RD title'?

Ask 'what in the code of conduct did he violate"?

Ask 'why wasn't any of this documented"?

Ask "why did he get his titled changed to 'Former RD' and was it to humiliate him"?

The same moderators 'thanking' each other posts right now, ask why wasn't this done the way is always done.

Ask why did Jerdog go rogue?

These questions get asked and you get legit answers and get to the bottom of this ****, you would have me on your side. I would be supportive every step of the way and hopefully we can move forward pass this.

I've been talking to Kenny and Pstevep via PM about this and they seem like they truly care about XDA and have said they would look to it but I want all of you to ask. I want you all to take part in it so you can see Jerdog for what he really is and not what you're being fed by Josh.

I have promised to stay back until this **** gets looked into by Kenny and Pstevep and I will. I believe between Syko and them, there's a good group that truly wants change.

So let's see. Let's see how much you all hate me. Do you hate me enough that you would sit back and let bull**** happen just because is me or will you all do the right thing and probably address this?

Neo you were questioning my character last night. Lead by example. Let's see what kind of man you are.

The ball is in your court fellas. I'll be watching ?
[General Topics] the_scotsman:
Some good feedback being posted. It really is very much appreciated. We appreciate the honesty and suggestions. This is the very reason we wanted this thread created. Regardless of what the minority few think, the mods really DO want to change XDA, we want to make it a better place for the developers. After all, it's all of you that create all the content.

So please continue to be honest and let us know what you think would make XDA a better place for developers.

This is where using our DevDB option is ideal. Devs can simply create a linked Q&A thread for their kernel/ROM. So that the main Dev thread can be left for whatever they choose. Feedback, bugs, whatever. And random questions and chit-chat can go into the relevant Q&A thread.
[General Topics] jotha:
I agree that you can use any license you choose as a developer of original code. I don't agree to the point that a use that doesn't violate any license can be problematic. Especially a place like xda shouldn't have stricter but less strict licenses.

I started here in 2006, a time when there was no donation button for years, iirc also no "Thanks"-Button. All was about developing, sharing and helping each other. Still in the years from 2006 to 2012 there most probably were bigger steps in development than in the years after, for sure more than in the last couple of years. At least 75% of the (not stock android) components of the custom roms of today were developed before the donation button. Heck, a lot of functionality of todays stock android or OEM Roms were originally developed by those guys. Most of the developers of those parts didn't care about money and are in many cases forgotten today.

Of every donation dollar a rom dev today receives, he owes more than half to those guys. So he should also let his successors profit from his work.

I absolutely exclude the developers that created something really new and independent, like aroma, substratum, rooting- or unlocking-tools, but in these cases there rarely are such discussions as here the originality is undisputable and therefore copyright and licensing is pretty clear.

Again, this is just an opinion of a forum member that watches since more than 10 years and saw his fair share of drama based on totally unneccessary butthurt of developers and guys who think they are.
[General Topics] Neo:
So long as we are to speak amicably as we have in the past, I'm fine with discussion. As I mentioned earlier, your post #9 was well thought out and carried many important necessary bits of information related to the topic of conversation. It is only after you went on a tangent over your personal issue with jerdog that you lost me and several others. It became all about how you felt mistreated and how you need justice. I mean, you went on about how the funky title needed to be removed but didn't realize that it's been removed for a week or two.. That gave me the impression that this was never about the title and about some deep hatred for the site and power hungry mods. As Steve pointed out, we want peace here. We want a site where developers can share freely with one another without feeling like their every step is being micromanaged and that other members harass them for free goodies.

Alex, I will admit that my choosing to shut you up over your personal issue was a bad call and out of line, so I'm sorry for that. I saw a good conversation taking place with a hopeful resolution quickly being destroyed by a shift in focus towards your problem with jerdog. I know you're pissed about that issue but this thread was meant for a different topic and your insight was and is appreciated.