yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Topics] egzthunder1:
As I said earlier, this isn't the place for that. If he has something to add to the discussion, he will. Want to talk to him about something? Do it via pm. Thanks.

Edit: if you were trolling, discard my comment :) and well played :)
[General Topics] egzthunder1:
Actually, the newer fora no longer have the division of OD vs non OD. We ended that due to mainly what you state in here. There was far too much conflict coming out of what constitutes original work and what didn't.

Personally, I still believe that it was a great way of separating true development from the rest of the kitchen ROMs and kernels. The issue came down to complains and cases (brought up by devs and mods as well) that questioned the work's credentials for being placed alongside others which were clearly OD. It did work well for quite some time though. I wouldn't mind rebooting this one tbh but with a better set of rules for determine what goes where. It would definitely solve a few issues being brought up.
[General Topics] FSadino:
This is obviously the first step to put all stuff in the right place. Is a step that only XDA team can make and the rules about "what is" and "what is not" can only be defined by them and respect by all o whants to join us. This is not being done, or, not being well done.

I disagree with you about "normal development would barely be checked by people..."

As an Android lover, or, flashabolic as some say, I like to test or, at least, try everything I find to my device in order to find the "purfect" stuff that fits to my needs. I believe that, if a junior member is really good with his work (custom stuff, apps, themes etc), he will be recognized by members on "normal development" and XDA team should pay attention and recognize that member so he can have access to original development area's.

Again, this is the first step. Having this well defined will be difficult but I believe they can do a lot better.

I completely disagree with that. Reading above you can understand why :)
[General Topics] coal686:
Hi everyone,

My name on here is coal686 (Coal for short), but my real name is Aaron. I told myself I would just read and thank posts, but I want to say two things:

1. Thank you to all involved for your honest feedback. This initiative is important to me for reasons I won't go into, but since we are here for you, I'm glad you are voicing your concerns and I hope this sort of feedback can become a regular occurrence.

2. I want you to know that your feedback here is being taken very seriously. Lists are being made, ideas are being marinated on, and I think what comes out of it will hopefully continue to allow XDA to be the place where everyone wants to learn, collaborate, share, and develop (in that order in my opinion).

I know there are trust issues out there and, with time, I think they can be resolved if everyone is willing to make the effort. My hope is that we'll look back on this time as a turning point and reminisce on it as old-timers like we do Iron Fist.

If you ever want to talk, my (PM) door is always open.

Thank you for all you do (both developers and moderators) and back to lurking,

Aaron
[General Topics] Surge1223:
Well I guess my point is it. Looks horribly bad on his part for not responding.. Given that thread history is back. The fact that he's thanking posts and not responding looks horrible. I'd advise him to either remove his thanks and go back lurk mode or man up and respond like half of us are waiting for. Im actually surprised dev relations hasnt got on him for this. most of the thread has now heard of what were calling him out for, and he just chills like "nah im too coo for school" and he just thanks and chills in the background lol. LOL man up yo, just respond to what youre called out for, the rest of us have to. This is a thread about change, take the initiative and show us how its done
[General Topics] FSadino:
You just "quote" wrong post :)
[General Topics] the_scotsman:
And I'd advise you to give it a rest. It's getting beyond boring now.

keep the personal comments, remarks and grievances out of here. We've already asked for that. It's not much to ask. We talk about one of our issues being "annoying" users who won't read and search and keep going on about pointless stuff.

Wel....
[General Topics] Surge1223:
LOL im not asking for much, sorry that i came out with an unreasonable request. I guess its beyond reason to want an answer.

and pointless? Please point out the pointless-ness you speak of?
[General Topics] pstevep:
It's pointless because the issue in the history of the thread was between him and Mazda. The thread has since come around to its purpose, which is being discussed. He can post if he has something to say.

Please stop trying to stir a pot that doesn't need any more stirring.
[General Topics] Surge1223:
Lol it's an issue that needs to be resolved one way or another before we can move on. It's in the thread history anyone reading back will want an answer. How is it so hard to reply to it? It's beyond reason to think that something so minor and documented can't be resolved. I'm sure Mazda has no issue with it being public.
[General Topics] pstevep:
Is it an issue between you, Mazda and jerdog? I missed that part.

The issue will be resolved between the parties involved.

Unfortunately your name was not mentioned in the complaint.

I'm in communication with Mazda, even though you seem to think to speak for him. I'll ask him if I need to talk with you instead.
[General Topics] Surge1223:
It just sucks to know I'll be held responsible for what I do while mods/admins won't

---------- Post added at 09:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ----------

Is this not an issue for the whole thread now? I guess I missed the part where mods don't get held accountable. Sorry guess I'll just leave this thread, seems anytime time I say anything controversy arises. I'm sorry for complaining about posts being deleted (which then promptly were restored) and about puppy accounts (which were taken care of soon after). Seems like I should no longer point out conflicts of interest. Got it. Admins are above questioning.
[General Topics] the_scotsman:
No, it's only you asking for an answer. Everyone else has already moved on, as you can see from previous posts.

A complaint was raised by Mazda about it, and is being handled by the mod team as per any other complaint. ie - between us and Mazda. I can't recall you ever being involved in any of those issues? It is of no relevance to you whatsoever.

So how about we quit with the Jerdog crap. we've already pointed out what this thread is for. Suggestions, ideas, feedback on how we can improve the site for developers.

:good:

Yea, it seems a lot of people do things to receive thanks. This is something I just can't understand to be honest. 12 years ago clever people were reverse engineering PDA bootloaders so that we could all benefit. And now we have people repacking files with no work of their own, in order to get their thanks count higher. :eek:
[General Topics] Surge1223:
LOL did you just sponsor me leaving this thread ? How are you an admin on xda? Do you not want to hear the opinons of those that oppose you? seems like its either agree with you, or gtfo. Idk dude I have a lot of thoughts on this topic but I cant sit here and tell you what i think when i know you wont hold your own accountable. Its pretty hypocritical to assume what we think when you cant do the same for your own. Its pretty callous on your part. The thumbs up emoji was a bad PR move. Looks horrible mate
[General Topics] pstevep:
No, you just don't know what you are speaking about.

Admins aren't above questioning. Mazda is the offended party. There is communication with that party. If he wants to state what that communication is, that is up to him.

We don't publicly disclose these things. We don't tell everyone on xda if someone gets banned or an infraction. This is no different. It goes back to the parties involved. If they want to talk about it, that is up to them.

But continuing to ask for someone to post doesn't help anything, it just clusters a thread that has been on topic.
[General Topics] Surge1223:
yes great job, tell someone they dont know what they are speaking about. Shows great moderator skills. You must have got top notch marks on your moderator exam.

You obviously have no idea what happened. Let the big boys take care of it.
[General Topics] the_scotsman:
My last post on this nonsense.

I (we) want to hear opinions on the site and how we can improve it for developers. The thread title is fairly clear on that. Not sure if you missed it?

I don't mind if people disagree with me, or any other mod/admin. That's all part of providing feedback, and we want to hear it. The only reason we want it, is to try to improve all aspects of XDA to make it a better experience for developers.

If you have an issue with an individual mod that you feel needs an official response, then report that person and their post(s). Don't clutter this thread with your personal vendettas. No one here wants to hear it. That's not the purpose of this thread. Mazda has already lodged a complaint, and he will receive the appropriate response once it has been processed on our side. As Steve said, these discussions are nothing to do with anyone not involved in the complaint. Mazda hasn't come back in here, constantly crying about Jerdog, so I can't understand why you are.

And yes, I'm sponsoring you leaving this thread, if all you are going to do is cry about Jerdog. If you would like to provide feedback on the discussion that everyone else seems able to stick to, then by all means, please stay.

:good:
[General Topics] Surge1223:
wow this is why you get a bad rap. Just note that posts like this is why no one wants to help you. You should work on your communication skills. Using words like "cry" etc is not very conducive to repairing a relationship, granted the relationship thats in need of repairing is between devs and xda, not between you and i (because i dont even know you) but the principle stands. As one that represents xda you should be more careful in how you represent the site. Now im out, I can clearly see that no improvement will be made.
[General Topics] :
I know its not asked directly in the op, and a bit left field, but what about hiding the post/thank count as default. You could still look at it if you want to look at someone's profile but might stop the worst thank hunters/offenders?
[General Topics] the_scotsman:
Yea, the Thanks counter has been a little controversial at times. Some people think it not necessary, some think it a decent indicator of someone's involvement/participation in either development work, or assisting others with help etc.

I think the owners are on the pro-thanks counter side (it wouldn't be there if they weren't :p), but your point is most certainly a valid one. Is there too much emphasis on the thanks counter?

(note that my comments are all from my personal point of view. I'm an admin, but I don't represent other admins, or the owners views. I'm just someone who's been a member of XDA for 11 years)
[General Topics] Char_G:
I think if soliciting thanks and donations were not allowed, it would help tremendously. If users want to thank someone, let them do so on their own. Having a lot of thanks means nothing if users are told to do it.
[General Topics] Mazda:
Really dude? Crying?

Great ****ing way of saying 'Mazda is finally working with us to resolve issues that are clearly our fault'

BUT go ahead, tell Surge how he's the one causing drama smh
[General Topics] nathanchance:
Personally, I think thanks has been given this importance because a lot of people strive for recognized titles. There seems to be this narrative that thanks will get you a title quickly and while many of us know that isn't the case, it still propagates. I will not lie, seeing how much thanks someone has does give me an initial first impression of how they might be but I have seen plenty of helpful people with low thanks meters. It's kind of the only benchmark people are given aside from posts as to how active or good one is on the site. It'd be really hard to get rid of and I don't think it should but I do agree with [MENTION=5213564]Char_G[/MENTION] that there is a problem with people whoring out for thanks, whether it be building someone's work without credit or what [MENTION=5284595]kwoktopus[/MENTION] was talking about where someone just builds five to ten ROMs for one device and providing a sub par experience while doing so.
[General Topics] adinkwok:
The possible outcome with removing the thanks button (not sure if it's been mentioned yet) is that development threads will be cluttered with posts that all say "thanks for this work!", and that already happens way too much already. Some devs like it, most don't. Especially threads that are WIP projects that require a lot of logging and bug reports (I suggest y'alls to visit the Xiaomi development section, sheeeesh :silly:).
[General Topics] Char_G:
I'm sorry, I didn't clarify myself very well. I don't mean remove the thanks button, I mean don't let OP's ask users to thank them on threads and signatures. If a user wants to thank them, let them hit the thanks button on their own without being prodded to do so.
[General Topics] :
The thing I don't understand, and to a certain extent it is the same with donations as well:

Why would having a "please thank me" request in your signature make anyone thank that user any more than usual. Do people not have a free will and brain of their own? I would never read a post or OP and see that and say to myself-"oh they want me to thank them, I wasn't going to but aww they convinced me!". The same with donations. Maybe it's just me.....I agree it is kind of, idk, sucky to see it though
[General Topics] the_scotsman:
All I stated was the truth. No more, no less. You have raised a complaint and we're looking into it. And that he should quit trying to press his own personal issues.

Don't make this to be anything more than it is. Shake your head all you want.
[General Topics] the_scotsman:
Yep, this was essentially one of the reasons it was added :)

While the Thanks counter may have many different opinions, it doesn't really affect how developers work on the forums, in the context of this thread. But we're happy to receive all feedback as we've said.
[General Topics] _that:
We've all seen Mazda's side of the story. I can understand why you are now trying to handle this behind closed doors (or at least outside of this thread because that matter itself clearly doesn't belong here), but the relevance to some of us who are not involved is that we want to see if such issues are handled in an acceptable way. I want to know if the story is true, and I want to know if it could repeat or what XDA is going to change that it doesn't repeat. Bottom line: can I trust the admins and moderators to do the "right thing"? I expect an update on Mazda's story from the XDA staff at least when it has been resolved.

The thanks/post ratio is still valuable to see if anybody thinks that a member contributes to the community, even if they just repost others' work and are begging for thanks.

IMHO it should be forbidden to ask for thanks in signatures or in every post.
[General Topics] :
I don't want to spent too much energy on this one, as it is fairly trivial IMO, but one point I would make is that the thanks meter can also give the wrong impression about other users. On one hand someone who is new to developing or even someone who doesn't post much but does great work in the background, or on the other hand someone who is always making controversial or strongly opinionated posts or chasing thanks; it can give an impression about someone that is quite wrong. It's a bit like "don't read a book by the cover".

Hiding the thanks meter(not removing it entirely) so that it isn't the first thing you see might take some of the emphasis from the perceived importance of thanks vs posts. Anyway just an idea.......
[General Topics] _that:
I'm aware of that, but it's an indicator. If someone has 500 posts and 10 thanks, they are probably a useless leech.

Someone who is new or doesn't post much may still have a high thanks/posts ratio. "Good" users will always have a high thanks/posts ratio unless they are very new. In the other direction it's not so clear - a high thanks count alone, as you say, doesn't mean that someone is a good developer or contributor. There are just too many uneducated users giving out thanks for it to be reliable.

So the thanks meter should not be overemphasized but also not hidden. It's a sign of appreciation. And even if I have never asked for thanks, it feels good to be appreciated.
[General Topics] xenreon:
Lots of talk on the thanks meter, my suggestion would be to not show it on the profile of members but instead only show it for the individual posts (much like how GitHub stars work)

Would be the best of both worlds IMO
[General Topics] DSA:
yup, which is me finished in this thread.
[General Topics] FSadino:
That's completely wrong.

Thanks meter only good for one thing, If you have many thanks, it means that you work/collaborate for a popular device with huge community.

If you work/collaborate to a not so popular device with small community you have no thanks. This happened with me.

We should never evaluate a member knowledge/work/collaboration for the thanks he has.
[General Topics] MSF Jarvis:
I understand with what you're trying to say here. Working on un-popular devices includes both a lack of thanks and also a lot of hand holding which ends up causing a significant increase in the dichotomy between your post count and thanks count. But [MENTION=4878287]_that[/MENTION]'s use of the word "probably" leaves open the window for certain edge cases like yours and mine back when all I worked on was the HTC Explorer. It's absolutely fine, and you can simply check the guy's posts to get an idea as to why his thanks count isn't in a decent proportion with his post count. Evaluation as in "Is he good enough for being an RC?" or similar is NEVER done by thanks count (I think I can trust the RC-RT committee on this). I applied for my RC to [MENTION=3125148]KennyG123[/MENTION] and he indeed took his own time in making sure I was up to the task since I have had an infraction earlier so I'm pretty sure he did more than check my thanks count. [MENTION=5888332]xenreon[/MENTION]'s suggestion of ditching the profile based thanks meter for a per post solution is a good way out of the thanks whoring mess, and also the judging of someone by his thanks count.
[General Topics] _that:
If that's really *completely* wrong, please show me a few member profiles having 50 times more posts than thanks and who are providing valuable input to the community. I'll admit that I was wrong when I see evidence, but I would guess that nobody with such a low thanks ratio has ever become a RC even if thanks are not used for RC evaluation. I started working on Android development with the Asus TF700 tablet. Not a popular device by any means. But I still managed to get roughly 0.5 thanks per post on average if I remember correctly, so my personal experience says it's not completely wrong.
[General Topics] Mazda:
I think the whole thanks for junior/senior members is fueled by how popular a device is or the work being out. For any recognized member is not. I think many times users just hit the thanks button more than normal because of the title. Here me out...

Junior member XYZ opens up a thread about say bootloaders and makes a good argument about this or that. He or she may get 2-3 thanks depending on the size of the thread and people involved in the actual conversation at the time. Someone like jcase, chaninfire or dees (twrp guy) and says about the same thing the junior member did, their thanks round up will be a lot higher. I've seen it before haha it happens a lot.

Who you or what users think you are matters with the thanks bs.

I've seen chainfire make a post and say 'yeah you're right' or whatever in response to a question and that one post get 30-40 thanks. It crazy!

Now weather or not I think it should be removed? No. I think it serves its purpose and it entices people to make useful posts. Yes is also used by glory hounds and repo syncers but it does more good than harm.
[General Topics] FSadino:
I guess I was wrong saying that "is completely wrong" but in my opinion this have to be reviewed.

We all see situations like that, when some member helps with some stuff and gain 2/3 thanks and on other side we see a high rank member gain 50 thanks just by making a smile...

Again, this thanks meter deserves to be reviewed. This button is currently used like Facebook "likes" or "tweets".

How about create a "knowlage meter"/"Rank meter"/"whatever meter" but including some variations such as posts count, thanks count, post on different forum area's/ etc...

A+B+C=X or different weight in each like (Ax2)+B+(Cx3)=X
[General Topics] xanthrax:
To add more on what Mazda said

The guy below created a simple and useful zip which makes a small modification to the the build.prop, modification which gives headaches to the n00bs who doesn't simply understand that it should be made before booting into the rom via twrp file manager, actually it triggered a small fight in the thread lol

What I'm observing here is that despite the fact that few hundreds of users are downloading the multirom and they need that build.prop mod quickly performed through the zip, the guy who posted got 4 thanks within 1 hour, why? Because he's not the popular one, if the dev would have done it he would have get 40 thanks

Now, if the guy will try to keep on helping, posting helpful stuffs here and there, his popularity would grow and the thanks benefits would grow as well, not immediately but in time, his thanks count speaks for him, he's a good one we can conclude.

Perseverance on a positive direction will boost your thanks count and maybe the bank account as well and speaks out quite clear who you are for this community (the narrator has been excluded from the above equation)

I personally won't touch the thanks count / option way of living, it is quite less important than other major stuffs, the old member will always know how to appreciate another useful member and the new ones, most probably a wide majority of them will be still "as new" even after 3 years

People are switching devices very often, they will be always influenced on their attitude on xda according how much "support" their new toy gets

By time, a consequent strong developer who actually is continuing the development for the past 3 - 4 years for the same device, won't get same amount of thanks as on the first days because the old users owns already another one and the new ones aren't excited enough, their device is way too old.

I would like you guys to focus on GPL and authoring, if this " crazy women" is not happy, we all will never be happy

Sent from my Darkside of Oneplus 3
[General Topics] Spannaa:
Re: Thanks count etc.

I have loads of thanks, but the thanks count or post/thanks ratio doesn't motivate me at all.

I do what I do here because I can - it used to be the odd mod, theme, a bit of theme code & support but recently it's become just support (which gets ever more tedious).

Enough of the OT though - this thread is meant to be for our opinions on XDA's code sharing policy, isn't it?
[General Topics] Perseus:
You're making me change my hat to Moderator. :p <Mod Hat On/>Seriously speaking, contact the last moderator who had handled that last report against this guy. Make sure to contact via pm. Explain to them what you said here. I am sure they will not take this sort of behaviour kindly. </Mod Hat Off>. Dev Hat back on.
[General Topics] adinkwok:
Before a better solution can be found, I am one to vote in the change. I've discussed this with another mod before and we both agreed that people view OAD as the pseudo "only place to find the best works", leaving AD in the dust. It has gotten to the point of "I'm going to put my work there so that people know it's better than the others" in a few sections (speaking with my developer hat on top of my mod hat :eek:)