yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] techntrek:
Sorry Itxda, I havent seen any other details since then. I figured more details would emerge at CES this week.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
Test 1 update...

Ok today I connected a 16GB Corsair Voyager USB Flash drive to my Athena via the 4-in-1 cable. The USB Flash drive was recognized without a hitch. It appeared under Total Commander as "Hard Disk". I didn't have to reset the device or anything.

This is very good news. More test results to come later.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] techntrek:
Hey I just posted at the exact same time as you. Dont miss my reply above.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
Thanks for following up. Much appreciated.

I think the USB drive would be a great first step while other technologies come around. Tomorrow my 32GB USB drive arrives and i'm going to take some measurements. I don't think we'll have a problem fitting a stripped down USB drive into a 1" compartment. We'll just have to see.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] c0mput0r:
usb internal

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs...-1&productId=8198552921665093005&tab=Features

These micro vaults are freaking tiny and you should be able to wire them up to the internal usb.

I know it is only 4gb for that tiny version but it would give enough room and a decent weight savings... I do hope something in the 8-32 GB range could be found.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] HeartOfDarkness:
I understand. But connecting the stripped down USB drive to the ATA port allows for a number of advantages:

- it uses the ATA bus and chipset, which is much faster internally, handles multitasking much better, etc;

- less soldering is needed, actually, I think, and it is less complex;

- it completly frees the USB port.

I'll try and find out if USB / ATA adapters small enough to fit our needs actually exist. I'll also check how the ATA connectivity is implemented in the Athena (I seem to recall it is not entirely standard, or at least, is doesn't use "plug'n play" connectors, which is understandable).

We're on par on that topic. :-)

It won't fail. But as I bellow, we'll have to integrate this hub-like functionnality into the solution. Simply soldering things "in parallel" won't cut it, alas.

Yep, did that (among other things) to try and solve my slowdown problems.

That's excellent news indeed. :-)

Yep, but this means that one will have to integrate that USB Hub-like functionnality into the solution too. Otherwise, the USB chipset autodetects that slave device only is connected, and switches to "master" automatically. That's in the USB specifications, actually, that's not something specific to the Athena.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] techntrek:
Here's the CES press release on the Intel Z-P140 SSD. Not much new info here:

http://download.intel.com/pressroom/kits/events/ces2008/Intel_Z-P140_PATA_SSD_ProductBrief.pdf

Another Intel site on it, this one says the 2GB version will come out in Q1 '08, and the 4GB version will be mid-'08: http://www.intel.com/design/flash/nand/z-p140/index.htm
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] yetdy:
Guys,

Isn't a Drive Adaptor better than soldering anything to the usb? I mean if some enterprising dude out there was able to convert 4 sd to an ssd using a converter, maybe the same system can be used only this time, we use a usb flash drive not an sd card in the MD's place.

This will make the installation easier though more expensive because of the converter. However, anyone can do it as it will become a plug and play system.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] HeartOfDarkness:
lol Yep, that's what I've talking about and what seems, to me, the sexiest solution. Because it uses the ATA connectivity, which is better for storage purposes, and leaves the USB connectivity virgin of any manipulation.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
Yes this is another great solution as the 16GB and 32GB SDHC cards should be right around the corner. If we can create a module that accepts 4 miniSDHC cards and has the same connector as the HD it'll fit perfectly without any mess....now the question. How do we get this to be recognized via that interface? My point is that we've waited too long to do any hardware mods on this device and now that we've got some great ROMs, it's time to increase storage. Let's get more aggressive and get this done as a group.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] boinger66:
problem is how much is the converter gonna cost ?

and if one exists?

what will it take to make one if it doesnt?

and will it fit?
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
Right. My idea has minimal hypotheticals. So when we get other ideas...let's bring the proof. Do we have an adapter? Is is a realistic goal? Etc? Lets get results and stop just throwing ideas around.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] techntrek:
Which is why I keep pushing this SSD from Intel. It should be plug-n-play with no adapter, directly to the existing HD connection. Even better, it will leave so much room where the old HD was, we might be able to fit in something else useful.

Im thinking a vibrate motor to fix one of the few flaws this thing has. Of course that will require more modding, but Im hoping maybe a control line for the missing g-sensors can drive a reed relay, with the primary power coming from the battery. Someone would have to write a driver to monitor for a ring and then trigger the vibrate.

I can dream.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
Yea I understood what you meant but the capacities aren't high enough and they haven't even began to release them yet have they? I don't think they released the 2GB or 4GB yet. This is a great solution to solve the moving parts issue and probably the power consumption and most likely the reliability one but I'm looking for raw storage and having an internal 32gb storage device is very appealing to me. :)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] yetdy:
maybe we could find the person who made the converter for the ssd (ebay at USD 200.00 a peice) and ask him to help us develop one for us. It's going to be expensive but it is a viable alternative to the MD. I think a lot of people here would not mind paying USD 100 just to rid themselves of the MD problems.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] yetdy:
Another option, is to study the system of a USB external HD casing. We plug those into a usb port and the HD inside will run?

PC = USB PORT = USB PLUG = 2.5 inch HD

ATHENA = MD = USB PLUG = USB FLASHDRIVE

= means connect

Maybe, we can do it the other way around using the same hardware or a simplified one.

I have a few of these at home but I don't have any background on electronics.

Now I understand your problems with the MD of your Athena. I just got my athena yesterday and the MD is already giving me headaches.

If we can expedite this, let's do so. Thanks!

Somebody know something about electronics? Is this possible?
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] boinger66:
well what you are talking about is a host controller

you need a chipset to recognize the drive ... that will take tooo much space

main concern is space ... we want minimal space usage so we can maximize the space left for storage purposes
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] c0mput0r:
Do you have a link to this converter being sold on ebay or a picture of what it looks like? Or any other information about it?
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] HeartOfDarkness:
Well, that is alas much more than an adapter that is required. ATA <-> USB adapters already exist and are fairly cheap (about 20€ auround here). But having, if I understand correctly, more than 1 SD card or pen-drives and trying to "combine" their storage into one "logical" drive means an ATA <-> USB adapter AND some kind of RAID 0 chipset.

Which, needless to say, increases dramatically the complexity, and size, of the setup, if it is only possible.

To do this, the setup would look like this:

Athena ATA bus <---> [Athena ATA connector] <---> RAID 0 controller
/ / \ \
/ / \ \
/ / \ \
USB <-> ATA / USB <-> ATA \
adapter 1 / adapter 3 \
/ / \ \
/ USB <-> ATA \ USB <-> ATA
/ adapter 2 \ adapter 4
/ / \ \
Pen 1 / Pen 3 \
drive/ drive \
/ \
Pen 2 Pen 4
drive drive

The [] means that it depends on the RAID controller implemtation, we may have to connect straight to the ATA bus.

And that's even worse using SD cards, because although the USB <-> ATA adapters exist, I don't believe SD <-> ATA exist, so one would have to design that part....
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] yetdy:
sorry I couldn't understand the raid controller thing. However, I think I get the gist of it.

regarding the usb-ata controller, small I got one here in front of me. It is big. The board is around .75 x 3 inches without the HD and enclosure. If there's a way to convert the pins from 2.5 HD to an MD, it will still be hard to fit it into the small space provided in the athena. :( Still, technology wise, it is the easiest to use becuase it is available almost anywhere. If only there is a way to make it smaller... We can solder the USB Drive directly to it and just plug it into the MD slot. This is of course just a theory. :(
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] techntrek:
Someone will have to buy a dozen USB/ATA controllers, rip them apart, and see if any of them can either fit directly, or maybe can fit with some desoldering and reassembly. Same for the USB drives, a dozen or two will have to be bought, opened, and examined for original size and the possibility of breaking them into several parts. Eventually some combo of the two will be found that can either fit directly or can fit with some massaging.

Has anyone done any speed trials of the existing MD vs. a USB drive through the USB 1.1 port? One reservation I might have with this mod is if the USB is noticeably slower. We might gain an extra 16 or 24 GB of room but find its too slow when playing back video or music files.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
Worth the risk?

It is worth considering what you'd actually use 32gb of storage for especially given the strong risk of bricking the device.

Video playback on the device is vastly inferior to an Archos, for example, and generally conversion is required for optimum playback results. You could fit lots of music on, but if i were going to store and catalogue 32gb of music i'd probably get an Archos anyway as they're not too expensive. There's also a chance that the read/write speed is reduced further when replacing the Microdrive with a 'fudged' solid state disk, making video performance even worse. I wouldn't need 32gb for cab files and photos...there's enough space with 8gb.

Hey I'm not going to knock this too much as there's nothing wrong with a good tweak...just seems a bit risky for the eventual benefits. Will keep following though :D
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
Just a thought itxda but given the unresolved problem of high capacity drives in conjunction with the USB HOST cable I think it is highly unlikely that a 32gb stick will work on the Athena unless it works through the HOST port. I've always wondered if Windows Mobile's USB drivers allowed only a limited capacity owing to performance issues. Could it be that Windows Mobile would be incapable of reading a 32gb drive correctly? This is something that would need to be clarified from the outset to ensure that one is not left with no storage whatsoever! It might even explain why HTC only put an 8gb drive into the Athena. The 1.8" 40gb drive sited in the link on this forum is seemingly the only one, and there is no mention of its performance.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
I had a conversation with a friend who is in charge of production in the largest exporter in China. This company manufactures all iPod, Wii, PSP, and many other well known products. I asked him if it is feasible to replace the microdrive with an SD card. His response to me is that it is definitely possible from hardware's perspective. However, the issue if whether the software's driver could deal with it correctly.

Thought it would be useful to share this info to you guys.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] yetdy:
Guys,

I just checked ebay. There's a TOPRAM branded 32G CF Card. What if the MD is replace with a cf card instead of a USB Drive. I'm actually ok with a 16 G replacement. I don't think I can consume that much memory anyway and it's a lot cheaper.

But for arguement's sake, will replacing the 8 G MD with a 32 G CF card work? I mean, do they share the number of pins or are they alot different from each other? (sorry no electrical background)

http://cgi.ebay.com/TOPRAM-32GB-CF-...yZ122613QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] HeartOfDarkness:
They're not that different, that CompactFlash thing COULD be extremely interesting, provided we could fit it into the MD slot, after stripping... THAT could make things a lot easier...
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] boinger66:
i dont think you could strip a CF card down to that small...
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
Yes very useful. We figured as much but it's always good to have more supporting information from good sources. The drives can be modified at the software level to work. They are already there.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
The 32GB stick I got from Corsair worked perfectly with my Athena. :D

The Corsair Voyager 16GB worked perfectly with my Athena.

All other sticks I've tried, name branded, work well which range in size from 1GB to 4GB. Don't have an 8GB to test. Since we only have to solder 4 cables, which should be a piece of cake, I'm hoping that the mod is relatively easy. In theory, all we should have to do is trace back the pins to the host portion on the board and solder to the 4 connectors. I may be wrong so we need some hardware experts to jump in here and keep me from making a mistake if i'm on the wrong path. ;)

Now if Windows Mobile can support drives larger than 32GB? That's a question since we know Fat32 has had limitations like this which may not have been updated in the latest Windows Mobile OS's.

At the moment all other options, unless I misunderstood, are more complicated, not immediately possible due to hardware unavailability, or cost prohibitive. I don't want to mod my Athena with a smaller HD, even if it's solid state.

As for the 40GB drive, that would be a great mod but we need to do reseach, if it's available and find out the following, at minimal:

- Power requirements

- Connection type

- True dimensions

I may invest in a 64GB USB Flash Drive if the price drops a little OR if one of the more reputable companies, like Corsair, releases one. Always looking for a good reason to buy better or bigger. ;-)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] mw22:
Hi

I see seagate is launching a 60GB "wireless" HDD that can be accessed by a fone wirelessly "over the air" storage

see www.msmobiles.com
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] techntrek:
Youll have to do more than just find the usb host lines on the motherboard and solder to them - youll first have to cut the traces. The lines going to the drive and to the external port (where they were cut) will have to be connected to the guts of a usb hub. The lines coming from the motherboard will then have to feed the hub. A bit more involved than just soldering to the internal traces unless you add a switch to kill the drive when you want to use the external port.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] yetdy:
60Gs of storage is great (lots of videos!). Having it connected wirelessly is even better (power hog!). I love having one. I just wish it can be integrated into the athena so that I do not need to carry it around with me all the time. :(
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
Agreed, I do want it integrated into my Athena...but don't think I won't buy this nice accessory just to have it handy. :D
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
Once dismantled the pcb's for flash drives and suchlike are really quite small (though just how small depends from model to model). If the USB host port is just a proprietry usb port it's quite feasible to solder 4 cables internally along the inside of the case and permanantly connect a large memory stick. The downside of this is that the 4-in-1 cable functionality would be lost, and the connection would only be usb 1.1.. Check this EEE thread out. It's a subnotebook but interesting nonetheless.

The better scenario would be if the Microdrive were connected internally through a USB hub - then it would be a case (through careful soldering) of running a d+, d-, +5v and earth connecter to the corresponding points on a dismantled flash drive.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] techntrek:
Glad to see someone else agrees with me. Its doable, just not as easy as just soldering to the existing lines.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] HeartOfDarkness:
Actually, that was me. *wink* ;) Sorry, I just couldn't resist. ;) lol

I suggested as much on page 3. Hence the reason why I think the MD replacement using ATA connectivity, all in all, is much "sexier" and probably easier to implement. :-)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] rickyrvl:
i found a manufacturer that can produce SD to IDE(or you can say ATA)

http://www.pcadapter.cn/en/listview.asp?id=115

but just the size....

Only thing i can tell is possible to make SD to ATA adapter!

and i support to use SD because it is Cheap and fast~

for the Speed of MD vs anyother storage can connet to athena

MD wins for sure,nearly 2XMB/s(test by PHM)

i think only SDHC via ATA "can" possible to reach that speed

sorry for tha bad english:)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
Maybe it's more trouble than it's worth. Messing with the ATA connecter could cause irrepairable bricking! Tapping to USB host port is a possibility but the connection is very slow and takes away from the functionality (and resale value) of the Athena overall.

I think some kind of wireless storage medium is the best bet. Not bluetooth though as the Athena doesn't have EDR, and Microsoft's stack seems slow anyway.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] techntrek:
HeartOfDarkness - yup, you're right. I've done too much skimming on this long thread so I missed that at the end of your post.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] HeartOfDarkness:
Well, any type of soldering, whether to the USB or ATA port, can brick the Athena. ;) I still think that replacing the MD's the sexy way. :-)

Thanks for the heads-up, ricky ! At least, it exists. But the size of the very chips used for the thing kindda scare me. :-S

Would be cool to have the electrical diagram of the setup, see if it is doable with significant size reduction.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] HeartOfDarkness:
No problem at all, it was more to kid you, since you'd posted "actually, it was me" in another thread. ;)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
I like the way everyone is coming together with your ideas, suggestions, expertise, etc. This was what I was talking about. Pooling our resources and coming up with a viable solution and turn talk into results.

Now for another developement...

PK beat me to my RSS reader and let me know TMobile is on the verge of coming out with a 16GB Athena! We're falling behind already!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! ;-p

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/01/17/t-mobile-germany-rolls-deep-with-16gb-version-of-mda-ameo/

and if that link doesn't work for someone here's another...

http://tinyurl.com/2ftgot
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Fixerboy:
16Gb? Dang - I can't even go a day without my 8Gb barfing and going corrupt. She's one sick puppy in the MicroDrive department :(
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
Glad you brought that up. I also had problems with the MicroDrive....but...I decided to use WMStorage and connect my device to my computer. I then used my computer to format the drive and scandisk it. Since I've done this i've had ZERO problems with the MicroDrive. It's been over a month now. Let's just see how it goes after a couple more months. You might want to give this a try and see if it turns things around for your MD.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
I hardly remember this ever happen! Joking. I think in 10 months that happened just twice. It's reliable in my case.

I don't need 16gb. Currently mine is just 10% full with about 90 applications. Of these, 60 were installed.

Keyboard does not interest me a bit.

If they had made it SSD, or made it lightly, or made battery last longer, or have embedded ear piece, then we can talk.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] techntrek:
Well, unlike some other less-than-mature posters I've seen around the forum, I'm willing to fess up (and stay relaxed) if I'm in the wrong. :D

Back to topic - I don't understand this new "upgraded" Athena. There are other things far more pressing than enlarging the MD. Even giving us a smaller SSD would be considered an upgrade by most. Actually it would make more sense to ditch the drive altogether and just enlarge the flash RAM in the extra space. I hope this is just an interim release while they work on a real redesign to fix things like GPS lock sensitivity, lack of vibrate, and the keyboard.

I had a dream the other night that my Athena started vibrating on my hip, which shocked the hell out of me in my dream. What does that say about me, in Freudian terms? :eek:
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] HeartOfDarkness:
That you're french and don't know it ? ;)

I agree that it's an unnecessary upgrade, but it's also the easiest, as they don't have to change ANYTHING to their original design. And it's one that has a marketing "whoooow" effect... :S

IMHO.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
Update...

Olipro is out of town at the moment. He has an Athena and when he gets back is going to open it up and we're going to start looking at real possibilities to upgrading internal storage. Should be soon. He also has the right tools to get it done.

What we'll do is look at all possible mod/upgrade options but look at the fastest possible goals first to get things accomplished and put theory behind us as fast as possible. T-Mobile is releasing a 16GB version as everyone knows, so it should be an easy mod/upgrade to double capacity. I on the other hand am wanting high capacity like 32/64GB and am willing to sacrifice the speed of the MD. If at all possible we can start posting better pics of the Athena's inside and have a better idea of options. I know there are pics already on the Internet but I feel we can do a better job and get better views....maybe. We'll just have to see. Let's keep this rolling and get something accomplished here.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Martincyborg@gmail.com:
thank you for your continuous energy ltxda!! If you do find I way, I'll ship you my Athena and let you install a 32/64 gb storage on it
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
Not a problem. For $1200 USD plus parts, I'll be more than glad to get it done for you. :cool:
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Fixerboy:
Thanks Itxda - glad to hear your problem cleared up. I tried this and it seemed ok for about a day...but I'll go back over the process - sometimes these things need a few goes to get it right.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Martincyborg@gmail.com:
ltxda, two problems: 1. seems a bit steep (:D), 2. want to wait untill you have done it a few times ;-)

but hey if you can do it for a reasonable price and with some experience, I am VERY interested :eek:
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
:D:D

Well, it was, of course, a joke...I would do that for someone else unless I bought their device. Would risk it and after I do mine, the challenge is over so I probably wouldnt do it again for a while, unless worth it.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] kiliss:
what do you thinks about this?

http://interngeheugen.com/prodmem.odb?artcod=15964
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] yetdy:
20 G MD available now

some of you may be interested in this. I'm not sure though if it has the same specifications as in our Athena. But for USD 30+, you can upgrade your MD from 8G to 20 G. That's actually inexpensive already.

http://www.compuvest.com/Description.jsp;jsessionid=aApl3saaU5DbUmWs1E?iid=548823