yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Topics] Mazda:
Is actually pretty funny that you say you don't look for complaints on G+ because some of your colleagues like Jerdog do.

You also mentioned that were voicing our grudge against moderators and I know that's probably a jab at me since I'm the only one that's called them out by name but is actually the complete opposite.

How do you explain me losing my RD because supposedly violating the code of conduct and get this, you'll love this because of your "we don't go on G+ looking for reports" comment, I was told about this over hangouts! I never received a formal PM telling me what I did wrong or anything. Jerdog just told me that 'while you're here' that he mind as well knock two stones with one bird and told me he was removing my title because I had violated the code of conduct. When asked he just laughed at it and said 'why do you care, you hate XDA anyways'.

I got no reason other than supposedly I hate XDA and then to top this off. My title wasn't removed. It got changed to some **** that was clearly done to humiliate me. "Former RD"? When has anyone ever got that title? If you're an RD and lose your title then you either banned if is bad enough offense or you get bump down to Senior Member.

So yes. Go ahead and tell me how supposedly I'm holding a grudge when is clear to everyone that Jerdog is the one holding a grudge. So much that he abused his powers to send me a message.

I respect you Kenny but what you're saying now, taking jabs and **** at me is bull. Now what happened is just going to be ignored because I didn't hit the 'report a moderator' button? I freaking talked to Josh the owner of this site! I was promised that this was going to be looked into, it never did!!!

It wasn't until Syko was assigned to be one of the two dev relations people that I actually saw action and got the humiliating title removed. I got to speak to both Syko and I believed Ethan (can't fully remember his name).

Edit - Is Evan

You want to talk about grudges, start with Jerdog and move your way down. There are a **** ton of moderators that hold grudges and actually make life for developers on here a real pain in the ass.

Sorry not sorry, this is going the same direction I knew it would. Senior moderators discrediting what we say because they believed they've done nothing wrong and is US that have the problem. Is never you guys, is us.

Waste of time.
[General Topics] sawdoctor:
I have to say this is probably the best and most constructive reply for me. You have actually tried to see it from both sides, yes in theory devs modding their own threads is a great idea but the inconsistency it could bring is a big big worry. Even as it is there is unfortunately inconsistency between moderators and more people modding means even more. It can be hard for moderators with the "annoying users" and these users must be even more annoying to the developer so the temptation to over react is great

As I said you pretty much echoe my thoughts with all your points

Sawdoctor
[General Topics] KennyG123:
There are actually 3 posts mentioning moderators Alex. I am sorry you felt it was a jab at you...it was certainly nothing of the sort. I respect you as well and we have had a good relationship as far as I can remember. I am simply trying to keep this...just this thread...on topic regarding the development. Moderators and developers are all human...of course we all made mistakes!

The Moderator Committee as a whole does not look for complaints on G+. I was on it for 2 years and led it for the last year. Your name was never brought up there by any members. Just like any business or corporation, yes the MC needs a formal complaint. Just send it to the Moderator Committee inbox...no button needs to be pushed.

You are a well respected developer and feel very strongly about open source and doing what's right. You posted some excellent thoughts earlier in regards to the future of XDA and development. I am sorry that you do not believe it will do any good and are not taking it seriously. Developers have more power together voicing opinions on the way forward in development. This whole licensing thing is a very confusing subject and we are asking for your and all developers help deciding that path.

As far as what happened to you personally, Syko and Efrant have the owner's ear. You can still send in a complaint to the MC. But can we just table it for now and work on this one thing together? The way XDA is supposed to be? Staff and developers together!

Thanks Alex!
[General Topics] sykopompos:
Let's get past the pointing fingers bit, this is a discussion about going forward and not dwelling on the past.

As far as moderator committee and not getting formal complaints look at it from the other side that people will feel like they are going up against a brick wall with cops defending cops which is why you probably won't get many formal reports because they would feel like a waste of time so that led to us being here now.

But enough about the past, we are here to look at how to move forward and resolve specific problems and get feedback and educating each other on the issues being faced.
[General Topics] mazwoz:
I absolutely agree with you on that. If users are doing it simply for thanks/donations it will be evident in the fact that they are doing 5+ ROMs. Also, if credit are not provided, they are wrong as well.
[General Topics] :
I hope this wasn't aimed at me. I mentioned the "perception that mods are not doing enough", but I think the problem in this respect is members not reporting and expecting mods to have read the problem posts rather than reports not being acted upon.

Anyway just wanted to clear that up. If I'm jumping at shadows then ignore this.....
[General Topics] Myself5:
The worst is when they do that and don't even own the device. Havn't seen it recently, but a while ago there used to be people that compiled 5 different ROMs for the Xperia Z2, the HTC M8 and other devices, while owning none of them. Worst part was that none of those threads had a warning about it, but at least they were featuring the big "Plox donate" button.

As said, hav't seen that in a while now, but I also don't think there is a certain rule to prohibit that, so I'd like to throw that into the consideration pot, because thats something that helps nobody exept the donation hungry "dev" IMO.
[General Topics] :
We already have the option to block a person so that we don't see any more of their posts. How about if the block button could be back dated so that not only did you not see any more posts from that user you also couldn't see any of their previous posts as well ? This would allow the developer to in essence remove any posts he didn't like but also let the moderators actually deal with the noobs
[General Topics] MSF Jarvis:
Times of change have rarely been calm and this one is no exception. All we can do is hope there indeed is a good outcome of this entire discussion/drama/name calling which benefits both this site and the developers who make it what it is. All we can do is hope

:fingers-crossed:
[General Topics] :
Report and ignore buttons are useful features. But your official Xda Labs app doesn't support them. And no, i won't use tapatalk or a browser just to report someone. Just in case someone is going to suggest this.

I haven't used ignore button for a while. As far as i remember you will nevertheless see posts from ignored persons if another user quotes him. That's why i stopped using the ignore feature for annoying users. There will always be someone who quotes that ****. I don't know if this behaviour was changed.
[General Topics] egzthunder1:
Lol... Nah, not aimed at anyone in particular. Just saw a few comments floating around touching this subject and I figured I'd post something in that regard :)
[General Topics] DSA:
Sharing of code decisions will be contested no matter which side they fall on, and because of that there will always be resentment towards the decision makers. xda cant win in this situation, and cannot provide a suitable solution for all.
[General Topics] egzthunder1:
As far as I know, some of the features you mentioned are in the works. The XDA app is slowly maturing, but it is getting there :)

(In case I wasn't clear, I completely agree with your post :))
[General Topics] egzthunder1:
Yup :)

Let me tell you about my own experience in this front. I have been in the mod ranks for almost 7 years now and I have participated in a lot of rather major issues on this site. I have mediated these and like you said, the "losing" (for lack of a better term) party will 100% of the time, leave the table with resentment. Some of these people truly believe in their mind that they are doing nothing wrong. The problem is that they do not understand that they were in the wrong to begin with. If anyone out there recalls Feeyo vs VillainRom back in the Hero days, you will know what I mean. Blatant disregard of the gpl, massive kanging, and the guy was ok with it. There are the odd cases where I have successfully gotten both parties to reach a common ground and start working together again (or at least, not cross each other's paths).

Lots of these people (most of them in fact) tend to leave XDA, feeling like we did nothing to support their cause. But the truth of the matter is that we operate off of factual evidence which needs to be provided by the parties in a dispute (as you would if you ever went to court for whatever reason). We don't normally go looking for stuff because then we could be getting tagged on as being biased or even incompetent for maybe missing something. Remember that our role here is to mediate, ensure that there is a peaceful working atmosphere on the site where people could collaborate. We are not police or private investigators. We always try to work with everyone to reach a common ground instead of simply swinging the hammer.
[General Topics] egzthunder1:
(small disclaimer: I apologize in advanced for spamming with new posts, but I figured it might be easier on the eyes to post on subjects in separate posts. Lord knows I can write walls of text like many here, but it gets tiring when reading them :p)

Developers moderating their own threads:

Afaik, RDs have some permissions to do basic moderation on their own threads. This would not be a new feature. Having said that, I see comments about the "tools" being discussed for this purpose and I see the point. I think that out of all the comments so far, [MENTION=1289361]Mazda[/MENTION]'s is the most fitting. By providing moderator tools to developers to do basic maintenance (like deleting posts for instance) we'd be effectively putting trust on developers to not misuse the tools. Adding the functionality to the user group itself is a trivial 5 minute thing and I guess we could potentially give out these powers on the condition that if they are abused, they will be removed. I could live with that...

What tools do you all think that we should allow devs to have? Here is what I believe could be a fairly simple tool set:

* Soft Delete (no hard delete in case someone does abuse the feature). Moderators would get an automatic notification whenever a post is deleted and a reason field would need to be filled before the post gets erased (this is currently how it is set up btw).

* Open/Close thread (already present, I believe)

* Inject post (there are many times when OPs ask for a 2nd or even 3rd post after the OP but you already have the typical "first" post right after :p). On this same topic, maybe we could try to roll out a system where if an RD is creating a project thread (could be identified via a checkbox during thread creation), that the thread automatically gets created in the following format:

Thread

1st |--> OP

2nd |--> Screenshots

3rd |--> Downloads

4th |--> FAQ

Truth be told, I don't know if it is possible to do this or not. I am just throwing the idea out there and see what you guys think of it. We have tons of custom plugins for this version of vB and one like the aforementioned would be fairly trivial to make (I think :p).

* OP assignment. There are times when the OP wants to hand over the reins to someone else. While not massively popular, it could be a useful tool.

As I said earlier, doing this would be on a trust system. I would personally like for it to be a zero tolerance type of deal because... once trust is gone, it is gone.
[General Topics] Myself5:
I wouldn't go for a soft delete but a spoiler hiding for example. Users that require their posts to get removed usually dont see what they did wrong. In case of a post deletion, they will just continue to spam and ask why their post got deleted. Other than that, I would see me appreciating this set of features a lot.

However, there really should be some kind of training coming along with it (unsure how that could be realised though).

BTW: Really appreciating that XDA is giving the developers a place to talk about this :)
[General Topics] sykopompos:
I can vouch for Josh that we have sat down several times and discussed rebuilding relationships between developers and XDA and we know this will be a long road to do so but we are both optimistic that it is possible to do so.

So let me bring up a few things that have been mentioned.

Donations, this is a tricky one because unfortunately there is out of pocket costs to operate a lot of projects especially the larger ones, gerrit servers, buildbots, download servers all cost money out of the developer's own pocket, for substratum alone we pay a monthly server cost for our gerrit and a buildbot (we build very often for development and test commits) that comes out of our pocket, even things like custom icons and animations cost money.

As far as competition between Roms/projects, in the past year I have seen more people collaborating with others like I have not seen since the Android 1.X.X days, we have devs and projects collaborating on a daily basis, while there are a few projects/people that do their own thing and try to compete, for the most part all your big projects actually don't compete at all like people think they do and actively work with and help each other out.

Most people would think there is fierce competition between themers but they actually work with and help each other out and there is basically no competing between them, same with rom teams.

I haven't seen this type of level of working together and community spirit since the early days of Android and people should really reach out because most are really welcoming and actively trying to rebuild the community to what it once was.
[General Topics] egzthunder1:
It is a good point I guess. An easy way to solve this would be for the RD who uses the power would need to send a pm (I believe this can be automated just like it is with the post/thread move actions) letting them know that the post has been deleted. As I stated, there will always need to be a documented reason for the removal anyways.
[General Topics] DSA:
Is this also an ongoing discussion in the private RC & RD forums? (I seem to remember seeing something similar when i had access). That seems the the first place to initiate this..

If so is there anything that can be shared here?
[General Topics] woodman:
It's forbidden to say what happens in private forums. You should know this if you were in before ;)

What RCs/RTs/RDs have to say, they say it here anyway.
[General Topics] DSA:
ok ok, it was just a thought
[General Topics] woodman:
No problem. :)

That said, I can safely say we don't discuss privately about what's all about in that thread. As I said, we're saying all it here. :)
[General Topics] xanthrax:
Confirmed [emoji41]

Sent from my Darkside of Oneplus 3
[General Topics] nkk71:
Never mind me, I just need to post something so I can *see* it easier (subscribed vs participated threads) :o

And although I have yet to decide which thread I'll post my 7000 line essay, a few things I am certain of:

1- XDA is unhappy

2- A lot of devs seem unhappy

3- I thought this thread was about *code* policy, not some weird vendetta thread

4- ^^ I can assure you, some *code* I have written was/is/still is being wrongfully quoted, be that on the portal, or other sites

5- I no longer wish to dwell on the past, yes wrongs were done from

my

perspective, perhaps even ongoing, I don't know

6- Yes, I'll leave it (^^) at that

7- I have yet to form a *proper* and *decent* response to all the posts here and elsewhere,

but

for some strange reason, I feel like helping / coding (as far as my ability to do so allows) / being useful

And that ladies and gents is the short version, I may or may not eventually, write up "My journey in XDA"

One thing is for sure now, XDA is unhappy, which has lead us here, and rest assured I am no developer, I am no contributor

I am <strike> WE ARE xda.

We have the ability to rise, we have the ability to fix, we have the ability ... if only we wanted. (I'm not one of them)

It took (correct me guys), but it did take a handful (ie 5 or so) people (forget the *rank*) to get extended attributes being noticed, so what happened:

1- I was talking to <> and <>

2- Someone else was simultaneously talking to <> and <>

3- 1 and 2 were actually on speaking terms ....

i know it's weird

the above concluded combining efforts resulted in a better understanding, and ultimately a solution.

/rant over till i reach my 7000 or was is 70,000 word essay
[General Topics] Perseus:
Aside from the signature challenge, would you please be kind and elaborate what you meant by Thanks Meter Hunters ? Are you referring to those who post for the sake of earning more Thanks ?

If so, there's also the opposite, who go by someone's Thank Meter. Example. Dev 1 had Ten thousand thanks and Dev 2 has zero. Both had used AOSP Code base and produced own work. However the Dev 2 actually had posted some good features lacking in that of Dev 1. Not using his code but AOSP. Yet Dev 2 gets panned by the ignorant fan club of Dev 1 and is booed out of XDA. Just because his thanks meter isn't as high.

I kid you not. I can name at least 5 cases top of my head.
[General Topics] Mazda:
Doing things on the trust system is not bad at all and I agree with most of what you said. I say most because the last part rubs me the wrong way. Here me out....

You guys are essentially asking developers like myself to trust you again. If once trust is gone then is gone then we wouldn't be here contributing to the conversation, lurking and taking things into consideration because a lot of us don't trust XDA.

I think trust in this context can be regain after demonstrating that you're not that person/group that made XYZ mistake.

I think many moderators, both senior and junior have even said it, **** happens. Would be hypocritical to ask for a second chance from developers but then turn around and say you're doing a one and done if trust in these tools is violated.

Now don't get me wrong please. If a developer entrusted with these tools abuses that power, take it away. What I'm saying is that if 6 months to a year passes and that developer is like 'hey I made a mistake, had a bad day and I want access to those tools again', they shouldn't be turned away. They should be given that second chance because we're giving you (XDA) a second chance despite the bull**** that's taken place in the past.
[General Topics] Char_G:
The thanks hunters are out of control IMO, GZR has dealing with the Lenovo a6000 forums where ROM threads are being opened daily, most seemingly without credits or unofficial tags. I've had to report a few threads for posting GZR builds without credits, permission or unofficial labels, one 'dev' told me 3 days ago that he would not open any more GZR threads, then opened another the next day. He at least did remember credits this time but still... His signature of course begs for thanks..
[General Topics] FSadino:
I don't know any cases similar with that scenario but I know exactly what you mean with "ignorant fan club"...

This can be solved (only my opinion) by reviewing all XDA forum principal threads to separate true development and custom development (or repo sync warriors).

For example:

When we search for a device on XDA, we find:

General

Q&A

Accessories (This can be discussed on General...)

Development

Original Development (what we have original here??)

Apps

This threads can be reviewed to separate real development from newbies/apprentices/"reposynquers"

When I mean "separate" I mean that Original development should have ONLY ORIGINAL DEVELOPMENT WORK (finished work or WIP) and only Recognized members should have access to this thread.

All members have place here on XDA forums but we need to separate developers from fan boys from newbies from apprentices. We are talking about respecting developers work but I believe we have to arrange "our home" and put all in the right place.

Remember this is only my opinion, I'm talking about what I see and I'm not developer, I "was" a repo warrior :)
[General Topics] Surge1223:
But on a serious note, where is [MENTION=487859]jerdog[/MENTION]? It's kinda sad other admins will respond but he won't

---------- Post added at 04:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

I just want to take a minute to say thanks to all that have responded, who aren't worried about the hits they take personally as devs, mods or admins and say that we truly appreciate the fact that you show the initiative and courage to respond. It is greatly appreciated by us users and devs alike.
[General Topics] Myself5:
For that there should be clear definitions of what goes in OD and normal development. We've been told for example that the few original features Carbon has currently were not enough, hence all our OFFICIAL threads were moved from Original Development to "normal" development.

So what makes a ROM really original? Sure there are fundamental things like DUs DUI that clearly qualifys the ROM as original, but where is the line?

There has to be some kind of seperation here, because otherwise, like a friend of mine recently said, "you need to search for the quality stuff in the middle of some zipmods", but that seperation is currently not looking sensible to me.

With the current rules, an unofficial reposync warrior Lineage build would be considered OD, because Lineage is "original" that doesn't fit the term original in my eyes.

On the other side hower, I have seen Junior Members releasing great work, just because they only registered recently just to share their work (News Portal Recently featured Google Play Music Exporter, released by a Junior Member for example) and what your post basically suggest would be a two-class system. A Junior Member needs to release his things in the "normal" Development, which, after changes like this, would barely be checked by people anymore because the "good" stuff is on OD anyways. So how is a new User supposed to get recognised for his brilliant work if nobody uses it cause they don't know it exists. RD/RC/Devs in general are no gods. They used to start off as Junior Members too and then were able to learn thanks to collaborations with more experienced developers and or by using trial and error. The new people should not be seperated from developers, collaborations between people is what made OpenSource awesome.

So personally, I would not go by a seperation per Forum Position. I would rather define sensible rules about what should be considered Original and what shouldn't (to pick up the first paragraph again).

P.S. new devices like the Pixel and the Xperia X Performance have no OD section at all. Instead they now have a one for all section (including Apps and themes). Not sure how I should feel about that to be honest.
[General Topics] the_scotsman:
He'll respond if and when he wants to. Constantly bringing his name back into the discussion isn't helping anyone, other than feed any ulterior motives. The apparent' "issues" were between him and Mazda. If there's anything to discuss or resolve, that'll happen between them, and the mod team if required.

Agreed. That's all we ask. be honest with your feedback. We need to know what you think, we don't want it all sugar coated. And thus far, it's all been pretty honest.