yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Topics] :
I think the average user thinks of AD as stock modified roms (chef's/kitchen) and OAD as anything built from source ie kernel LOS etc etc. Unfortunately they don't really understand the difference between original work and repo sync warrior which is why it's a good thing it went.
[General Topics] Perseus:
Completely agreed. I think its gotten way out of hand and a turned into Status Symbol if anything. [MENTION=1097804]sawdoctor[/MENTION] is correct in that AD is for Stock Derived stuff and OD for Source built stuff.
[General Topics] adinkwok:
Oh yeah totally see your point. Our perspectives are probably because we've been in forums where the devices (Nexus/OnePlus) have a strong source built development presence rather than devices that don't have such a strong presence (take the Sony, HTC, and Huawei sections as an example). Still, the lack of understanding or ignorance to heed the actual criteria is still there.
[General Topics] Myself5:
Oh, I need to admit, I didn't think about the ability to pin threads. That would indeed help the situation.

Hell nah, I was intending to say that I don't like it, and would rather want a OD/AD split for those devices.

Hum, I hav't seen any device forum so far where this strategy is getting applied, although, all you were not able to see any clear strategy at all in those threads.

I guess writing down a clear (and easy to understand) definition, that is not too techy, so that Mods without developer experience would be able to judge too is indeed required.

Also, as it has been stated multiple times now that at least some mods lack developer experience: What about a dev/mod collaboration in some kind of consulting group chat where mods and devs can discuss things like that? I don't see me as a Mod on my own, but I would gladly help mods with dev related affairs, and I am fairly sure that there would be other developers that think the same. After all the spirit is to help each other, and I can only see both sides profiting from this kind of collaboration.
[General Topics] :
Hopefully the creation of the Developer liaison committee will help with this issue, it is a 2 way street both devs and mods can use it. Any moderator who is unsure of something has somewhere to ask advice
[General Topics] js1999:
Hi all-- I think this might get buried all the way down here, but I wanted to update on a couple topics. The senior mods have been discussing two big issues brought up in this thread, and we're planning on some significant changes:

First, we're adding some tools to let developers and other members moderate/clean-up their own threads. We're building a "hide post" functionality that will also auto-PM the user who posted with a reason for hiding. This is in development, and we hope to start testing next week. We will probably roll out in "pilot" mode, but hopefully more broadly soon after.

Second, we are rewriting Rule 12 to add significantly more control for developers over their brands-- while also encouraging open source code sharing and development. We also hope to have a draft of the new rule early next week, and will open it up for comment by forum members before we adopt it.

I know there's skepticism here by some, but hopefully we can prove our openness to discussion, compromise, and change. Also, please continue the conversation. We actually have a running doc with all the comments and suggestions here, so keep them coming.
[General Topics] xenreon:
Will it only inform the users as to why their posts were hidden or the functionality will inform the mods as well?
[General Topics] js1999:
Still working on exact functionality, but we're thinking about displaying the actual reason to all logged-in users in the thread and even letting people expand the hidden posts if they want. Not 100% sure yet.
[General Topics] :
Another suggestion. Don't be too friendly to people who violate rule #6. They must understand that they aren't welcome in this community. The protection of the work of developers must have top priority here. Don't be afraid to lose them. They aren't worth it anyway.

https://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=71663663&postcount=2

That sounds like 'hey good question. But damnit, we can't discuss this here. Sadly it's against rules. Thanks for joining.'

Show in public that you take this subject more serious.
[General Topics] :
We have zero tolerance for Warez and anything in general that bypasses any kind of payment. (aside from a few Grey areas around) and we aren't shy about removing links and posting why in threads, or closing threads and saying why in our closing messages.

I think you're just not seeing it, cause it doesn't happen everywhere all the time. Most know our hard stance on this. Many accounts are disabled from folks who refused to get it too. ;)

We don't hide our actions with Warez, we always post why a thread is closed, or posts removed. And proudly, when it comes to Warez. :)

If you do ever see anything, definitely report it or message a mod, cause we can't see all posts or threads of course.

And we fully support anti-piracy steps in roms and other software, and I personally post that stance anytime it comes up and I need to deal with a bru-ha caused by members mad that their Warez won't work on their favorite rom. Lol

Good though for bringing this up. It's very important to us too. :highfive:
[General Topics] :
What i mean is that the reason should start with 'it's strictly forbidden to...' instead of 'unfortunetaly, we can't discuss...'

I don't doubt that you do your best to fight warez. Just be stricter in public closing messages.
[General Topics] :
That will vary from Moderator to Moderator. And situation to situation. Personally, that's one thing I'm not usually too polite about. :laugh:

Depending on the situation of course.

2 examples:

1. Member asked, "how do I hack gold in clash of clans?"

Well, say he's new, no issue with Warez related stuff before. He sees the word "hacking" all over, and maybe doesn't realize Xda doesn't discuss such things. And you can find info on that almost anywhere. Yes, it's in the rules, but he figures its only a game, or didn't read the rules carefully enough. He'd get a more friendly reminder of the rules and his thread closed. Likely a pm about it too.

2. A member who posts all over links to his blog, and his blog is pretty much nothing but cracked apps and guides on bypassing app payments.

Let's say he's already been warned too (and escaped the hammer) , probably far less nicely than the above guy too. Well, for me, there's no strike 3 coming. He's out. :good: But, if he's made other decent and legit contributions to the site, he may get a stern infraction, and a last chance.

So depending on the history, context and Warez being discussed, our responses will vary. Plus, some mods are super polite always, it's just who they are. And even with the end result being just as solid, they remain polite about it.

Many factors are involved. But in the end, the Warez go bye bye. Lol :)

Edit: Found an example that doesn't implicate anyone. After cleaning up an argument about Content-guard. https://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=64983087&postcount=9147

So you know I'm not just talking about it. :highfive:
[General Topics] Perseus:
You're right, its not consistently applied, potentially because Not all devices tend to have Stock Derived Roms. Given I personally have never used/worked with Sony or HTC, I can understand those will be quite different. But that's something to be brought to the attention of Developer Liaison Committee.

There's always the RD Forum for liaison purpose. You know what I mean. One wonders why its underused. But you're right Developer input/collaboration is long overdue and needs to be a top priority.
[General Topics] :
We tend to find it's easier to be polite rather than give them amunition to argue back if that makes sense but definitely if the general consensus is to nuke first then we will nuke them. I prefer to try and educate and hopefully a new user can be shown the correct way to do things rather than scared off from XDA completely. What you will find though is if educating doesn't work they get nuked anyway
[General Topics] Perseus:
With all the Due respect, please do not allow the feature of allowing other ordinary thread users to be able to see answers hidden by the OP/DEV. That leads to the same war between the person who made the post and the self declared Thread Nazis who brew up a storm between them. This will in turn defeat the purpose of hiding that post in the first place.

Yes its ok to show the reason in its place.
[General Topics] egzthunder1:
I was gonna say that too. The RD forum is a place that was made exactly for that reason :)
[General Topics] egzthunder1:
Yup. You'd be surprised how many members are actually simply making a mistake when it comes to stuff like this. They turn out to be great members after being told nicely once. There is usually no need for a second approach :)
[General Topics] _that:
Why shouldn't anyone be able to verify that the OP used the hide feature correctly?
[General Topics] :
My fear only is that hide won't stop a ruckus from beginning, where as straight up delete will.

But we'll need to see what the powers that be come up with. :)
[General Topics] _that:
I saw the hide feature more to remove off-topic clutter (and not limited to the OP). Like "how do I install" when the OP has detailed instructions, or "plz TWRP for my chinaphone kthxbye" in a "how to compile TWRP yourself" thread.

IMHO only real moderators should have the ability to actually delete posts, otherwise the "repo sync warriors" can in the future just remove critical posts. If posts are hidden and require additional effort to read, only people who don't trust the OP will do that anyway.
[General Topics] :
You could be correct. But not everyone will be handed the ability. And, if abused, it'll go away quick. :)
[General Topics] :
I would have thought that the fact that the post was hidden would show it has been censored. Anyone replying, quoting or continuing with the hidden posts content or argument should get a warning. For this and other reasons, I think an automated response to mods is a good idea. Both for over-using the hide feature and for more serious infractions that should still be handled mods to delete the post(s) altogether

I agree. When the hide feature is rolled out, I think it would be a good idea to let users know that if they disagree with the censorship, they should PM a mod, rather than clutter the thread with OT noise

A lot of devs and senior members seem to assume that every breach of the rules is done on purpose. I think if we can all remember that a lot of new users are very young and behave like children or are not very knowledgable about how forums work or the type of site XDA is, we could all be a bit more tolerant/mannered.......(OK got my flak jacket and helmet on :D)
[General Topics] _that:
It should be possible to view the "hidden" post, but it should not be possible to quote it or reply to it. However it should be possible to report it, unless the hiding action is combined with an automatic report.

Children need education, and seeing the consequences of their actions is a good way to learn. :)
[General Topics] :
Agreed. But my point was that if it is hidden, but also able to be viewed, then anyone could reply to it or continue an argument regardless of whether there is a "reply" or "quote" button available.

It might be a good idea to have a short message over the top of the hidden post to that effect, for example - "This post has been hidden because of a breach of rule X. Moderators are looking at it. Please don't respond to this post or infractions could be given" or something along those lines.....
[General Topics] adinkwok:
Resulting in more mess to clean up for the moderators :silly:. I vote against having the option to publicly argue. Realistically, how many of these arguments will end in agreement and/or civility? Report and move on; that's the way to go. Such conflicts should be handled privately, through PM or report.
[General Topics] :
I'm not sure if you read this post, but I'm more or less throwing around ideas in line with the plan to hide posts. If I'm following what you are saying, the "option to publicly argue" is possible I guess by having this option at all. Not only that but I would say the option is there already if a user wants to by stubborn and keep posting crap.....

I'm also suggesting to automate not only a PM to the user as js1999 said they will do, but also automate a report to the mods as well. As you point out it wouldn't cut back on the reports, but could if used right cut back on a mod necessarily needing to step in and take action, as the dev has taken the initial step already. As I said, just trying to come up with workable ideas, feel free to disagree or come up with alternatives :)
[General Topics] adinkwok:
I see what you're saying, I misread the context of the post, my apologies. I was thinking that you had said it in a completely different way.
[General Topics] egzthunder1:
I guess writing the code for the tool to allow thread specific moderation could potentially serve as the base for other tools in the future. In other words, if the hide feature isn't what we need, the code could be tweaked into a soft delete function (which I believe is currently being looked into as well).

An automated report (for tracking purposes) is good and I did suggest this when I spoke with js1999.
[General Topics] nkk71:
Just a small side note, on that particular subject, and on that one alone. So excuse the OT

I consider myself "decently versed" in multirom development, and we have plenty of ways to address that particular issue using any number of ways already existing in MultiROM *pre-boot-patching*, from recovery, to hooks, to rom quirks, etc.

So if, that is

really

the issue, then it could and should be fixed in-code, not using some flashable zip, and the devs in that thread are still very much active.

That being said, I can also see no real evidence, research, or any other *informative* information in the same thread. No logcats, no kernel logs, no pre and post corruption checks, etc.

Everyone in the thread is content with blaming the different fuse or something.

I'm not saying that they are, or are not wrong; it could very well be a certain *unfixable* problem, but without having the device, without having the problem (atm at least), and without having any logs, and in-depth perspective from someone actually experiencing the problem, it is very hard to find the root of the problem.

And without knowing and understanding the root of the problem, there is little that one can do to fix it.

I personally, have not run across it, mainly due to the fact that [my] MultiROM is not up-to-date, and needs some major fixing... which is taking longer than I had hoped. Seems I actually need more time and focus on this.

Not to distract with that particular member contributing,

which I very much welcome

, it's a good start but the zip will most likely be used wrongfully 8 out of 10 times, it does no error checking whatsoever, it's a *happy go lucky flashable zip*, at least from my point of view.

And the worst, I see no comments from the devs on their acceptance and acknowledgement of the zip, the modifications, and how they would like it integrated. (or their rejection thereof)

A new release was just posted, and I see nothing of ^^
[General Topics] Perseus:
That's what the moderator oversight will be for, Think of it this way. In Assist, there is/was a similar mandate of the RCs having Mod Oversight.

There's two different things here. One, overuse or rather indiscriminate use (misidentified as witchhunt) should be checked. Secondly a portion of the developer community and most of the Sr. Members believe that, after the first offense, the member should be outright banned from the site. This is not only excessive, but also rather rash action. We all make mistakes. Whether we learn from them or not is the question. Should we not give them that chance ?

Also any sort of member action or visibility for that matter of the op hidden posts will lead to drama. The same drama, which the developer/op wanted to avoid and hid the post. By making the posts visible, we're defeating the purpose.

Agreed and Seconded big time!

EZ, can the message to the moderators, be something akin to the "Post Report" that members do use today ?
[General Topics] egzthunder1:
Well, it would be more of a tracker that gets auto populated whenever the tool gets used. Basically, a copy of the post would be added along with information such as who did it and when, along with notes added by the person using the tool. At least, that is how I envision it :p
[General Topics] Perseus:
Good enough for me!
[General Topics] Surge1223:
Let's all pray [MENTION=487859]jerdog[/MENTION] gets the Internet back soon. Seems he can thanks but not respond. Must be a massive Internet failure. Not trolling just showing support for his Internet issues. It really sucks for those in third world countries where the Internet cuts out and ends a meaningful conversation.
[General Topics] Surge1223:
Lol [MENTION=487859]jerdog[/MENTION] since you just thanked my post, would you mind humbling us with your presence or is that behind the realm of possibility? [MENTION=1050103]sykopompos[/MENTION] do you have any ability here in getting us closure?

Mind you, folks are watching.

---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------

[/COLOR [MENTION=487859]jerdog[/MENTION] I feel for you, is there any way we can donate to restore your Internet capabilites? I'd be happy to help. I know how hard times effect us all. Let us know

My prayers are with [MENTION=487859]jerdog[/MENTION]
[General Topics] :
Absolutely agree.

I'm not sure either way.

I'm not sure whether their would be more drama, as I think it is likely in most cases where a post has been "hidden", that most users would be reluctant to continue the drama in fear of getting an infraction, the same way as when a moderator comes in and gives a general warning about breaking rules(especially if the hidden post has the warning about mods investigating as stated before)

I'm also not sure whether the OP totally hiding a post is any different than soft-deleting it, if it is unable to be viewed. For me, the main argument for not hiding it totally is just for transparency, so other users can see that the function is not being abused, but as I said I'm not convinced which would be the best way to go with that one. If the function of the "hide post" includes an automatic flag to the mods, then the mod could decide whether the post should be permanently hidden or deleted
[General Topics] MSF Jarvis:
Now this is a kind of post where I'd like the ability to simply hit delete/hide without having to engage a moderator on the case because this is heights of entitlement and intentional ignorance.
[General Topics] the_scotsman:
Yep, that's certainly a very frustrating thing to deal with, for developers and mods alike.

As I think Josh touched on in his last few posts, we're working on something to give developers this kind of ability. There'll obliviously be some testing first, and I think they're still toying with ideas, but there'll definitely be something to give you some way of hiding or deleting posts that contribute nothing to your threads.
[General Topics] js1999:
There's tons of amazing feedback in this thread. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there are two main initiatives we're working on right now.

1. A re-write of our sharing rules

2. A beta program so that developers (and maybe, eventually, other users) have some ability to moderate their own threads.

For public discussion of our rewrite of rule 12, go here. If you are an RD or RC and want to sign up to try out the new thread moderation tool, send me a PM.

For now we're going to close this thread. We will re-open the discussion soon.
[General Topics] Mazda:
Kenny we can sit here and talk about rules and how this should and how and what all day long but if we don't address the abuse of power on Jerdog's part, how exactly do you think rewriting the rules is going to matter?

He'll just whatever the hell he wants to do because he's Jerdog. He's got the owner's ear and he's got his fancy titles. It won't matter how many times rewrite the rules if people like Jerdog are just going to say '**** that' and do whatever it is they want to do.

I know you think I'm full of **** and that Jerdog probably had a reason for removing my title but explain to me this. Explain to me how I lost my title and then given some bogus title. This is something I asked Jerdog myself and got told on hangouts that I just needed to get over it.

AFAIK when a person gets banned from here, they get a message saying this is why you're banned blah blah blah if you feel wrong by this, contact whoever. If a person loses their title, they get a PM from someone saying this is why you lost your title blah blah blah if you clean up your act, reapply

I never got any of that!!! I got told over freaking hangouts in the middle of a conversation. This is was a BTW while you're here type of thing. I have screenshots of Jerdog doing this. Now you guys want to ignore this because it makes you look bad. It shows that there's a problem and is not with low end moderators, is a problem at one of the highest levels.

Ain't no shame in admitting there's a problem. Fix the problem.

I've ask Josh this a number of times and been promised this and that but is just hot air! Nothing. He's too damn scared to do anything because moderators are holding any change from happening hostage. They're saying if this happens we'll walk. That's bull****.

I'm all for talking about rules and this and that if is going to matter. Right now is not and it won't mean anything until issues like the one with Jerdog are addressed. A senior moderator who's held a number of positions on here and has HUGE influence on not only the owner of the site but junior moderators is dirty. He's one of the ones making the site look like total crap.

Please fix the problem.
[General Topics] sykopompos:
Now I have the owner's ear and a fancy title and developer relations is so there is never problems between developers and mods again and everything that might be a issue should go directly to develop relations some we can work to resolve them.

I will camp out in Josh's office if anyone tries to abuse power or do their own thing and will stay there until issues are resolved.

Rewriting the rules is what mods enforce, without rewriting them then is no way to resolve issues that pop up from the issues in the op so if the discussion breaks down now then nothing can ever come from this discussion.