yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] mzalan:
This is what they call "Resetting" or "Formatting", nad while it's good for NiMH and neccesary for NiCd batteries, it can actually prove harmful to the LiION battery of the Universal, since it may over-deplete the battery.

Use with care, and only if you can't afford a new battery, since this might leave you without a battery!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] ramfangzauva:
Deeply discharging of Lithium Batteries

People may remember the videos of burning Dells and Macs. Deeply discharging lithium cells puts them into a critical stage. You may loose a bit more than only the battery ...
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] dj_gabzz:
well its not deeply discharging

i monitored mine and was playing games on my uni until it turned off once it did then i took the tape out and fully charged it.. then viola it worked fine. i dont see any risk plus yes there is in the lithium batteries a problem similar to the nicad research about it and verify.. anyway you dont have to follow, just saying this worked on 3 of my batteries.

Cheers
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] mzalan:
NiCd yes, but those are of a completely different architecture. There's something called the Memory effect there, which means that the battery retains the previous charge as the threshold for the next charge, meaning they can't be "topped up", because then only the "top-up" can be drained from the battery.

Lithium Ion batteries retain this memory effect too, that's true. But in them, this is nearly insignificant, meaning the can be topped up at any time, even at 99%, and the almost full charge can be drained. Almost, because there is a minimum threshold beneath which the internal mechanism changes and the battery becomes unusable.

That is why I recommend against deep-discharging the batteries. What I did once was ordered a battery, and noted that it came with a six-month warranty. Now I get a new battery on the warranty(free) every six months, regardless of the state of the old one. But usually by then it startsx to show signs of weakness...
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] Juun:
i will try this swith my old bat after my new bat is here. thanks for the fix

greets
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] dj_gabzz:
no problem, how did it work out guys.. anyone tried it yet

?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] TehPenguin:
Unfortunately, the Memory Effect in Li-Ion batteries can be made worse if the battery is of low quality and/or has impurities in it (due to manufacturing or age). This is why our original, top quality, batteries are dying (due to age) and the cheap ones we buy off ebay are pretty bad (low quality)

I second that. This may be a fix, but be careful!! As with anything in these forums, it caries its own risks.

Probably best just to buy a battery from a respectable shop\dealer and get a warranty with it...
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] webmin:
hey guys ... i´ve tried it ...

i think it works, give it a try.

takes 4-6 hours to completely discharge, the i´ve loaded it one night long. today i´ve played long time with my colegues at work, used bluetooth several times, hat some calls... and now, after 10 hours without charging it has 45 % of charge.

at the moment i turned the brightnes to the maximum, with wifi, beam, phone and bluetooth on, to see at wich percent my universal will turn of.

i give you a notice if this happens.

cheers
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] webmin:
now ... finaly it turns off at 19 % !

but ... without any warnings or notifications...

but before it always was shutting down at 40 %, now with shutdown value at 19% the battery is more useful as before.

maybe it could help someone.

cheers
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] pa3x:
Didn't work form my orginal battery. :(
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] dj_gabzz:
at what percentage does your battery turn off ? try it again does your battery last longer with the tape on?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] dj_gabzz:
sounds great :) try to guve it another shot if you want .. fully charge it and then put the tape on until the universal turns off . maybe you will get closer to zero like i did and if not then.. meh 19% isnt that bad compared to people shutting off at 40 and 80 ...

the only reason i came up with this method was because i read in the wiki that some pople discharged using led or whatever to depelte tha battery or even on bootloader. i thought about it in a way that would make mnore sence using the device itself to deplete its own battery (think about the ammount of power tha led will be drwaing vs the amount the ppc will be drawing ) maybe the chip in the battery claiberates itself on the ammount of draw ... most likely not but it crossed my mind like that so i gave it a shot and it seems to be an exploration by surprise ;)

cheers
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] pa3x:
With or without tape on 96% :(
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] sl9:
It sounds very much like "deeply discharging" to me - you are disabling the sensor which is also the failsafe circuit!!! The sensor is not there just to "annoy you" by shutting off early, it's there for safety reasons!

All Lithium ION batteries shut off quite a bit BEFORE they are fully discharged. This is because a truly 100% discharged Li-ION battery (or even close, like 95%) becomes unstable, and this can cause it to set on fire, leak acid, and even violently explode causing you serious injury or burning down your house (people have actually been killed by exploding Li-ION batteries). This is rare yes, but it does happen and it has happened.

We all know that the sensor in some Li-ION batteries can lose its calibration over time, though this is NOT due to a "memory effect", NiCD batteries were the only chemistry which suffered from that problem. But

you have no way of knowing

if the sensor is really de-calibrated, or it is shutting off because of a fault with the battery, or even that the battery is just nearly dead.

For gods sake people please be careful, this hack may look "cool" and yes it probably will work on quite a few batteries, but it can also be

extremely dangerous

, and is just not worth the risk, especially when you can get a new battery for less than $20!

Check out these videos to see how violent and extreme a Li-ION explosion can be...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5f0VCoFuFM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJCZ4ayioCU
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] dj_gabzz:
thanks you for the info.

i dont mean to harm noone.. i just tried it and it worked for me and thought i would share.. for all future readers. dont take risks if this is really true..

:(
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] webmin:
a new battery for 20 $ ? where ?

in germany you have to pay nearby 50 -60 $ for a new battery, and you never know if it is a good one or some old crap.

for that reason i will try to maximise the life of my battery ...
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] quadxeon:
Or you get new crap :(
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] webmin:
hehe :-) yes, thats true.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] lorgem:
****! It worked on my UNI. I've used my original battery which is about 2 to 2.5 years old. As of now still 77% after 8 hours with beam on, bright max, gprs on. WOW! Thank You!!!!!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] lorgem:
In Hongg Kong i bought the 3200mAh Batery with cover + charger + mini USB @ U$32.05. Where? Hongkong, Mong Kok Computer Store. Cheers!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] a3b:
If you reed a lot that is already said on the battery subject, most problems arose after applying a new ROM in the uni.

This confirms the fact that it is not always the battery itself that is worn out, but just the chips that produces false information to the uni.

I agree that recalibrating in the way described holds a certain risk, but is there an alternative way to do it without any risks ?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] sl9:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Battery-Cover...0591184QQihZ003QQcategoryZ75446QQcmdZViewItem

There is a "4850mAH" Li-ION battery, for $14.76 USD (£7.48 GBP). There are hundreds of other HTC Universal batteries on ebay, most of them also nice and cheap. At this kind of price, why take the risk? :)
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] Thallium:
I might be wrong, but is it not illegal now days to create lithium-ion polymer batteries without a hardware cut-off built into it? for any commercial electrical device.. i think this came in to play after exploding laptops.. lol

that first video is a "raw" li-ion single cell 3.7 volt, which looks to me like its plugged into 5.71 amps at 16.25 volts. with no protection circuit. any battery will explode at that amperage :eek:

the second video they forced the battery into an unstable state.. aka, remove all protection circuitry and plug it directly into something.:rolleyes:

all li-ion li-po batteries for cellphones now days have a hardware cut-off and protection circuit built into it.

there's actualy no way possible to deeply discharge a li-ion li-po battery that comes from a cell phone without opening the actual battery and bypassing the charge circuit.

i'll take my universal battery, put a load on it and if it does not cut off before 3.00v or lower, i'll eat my socks.. deal??

just my 2cents..

:)
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] Thallium:
LOL!!..

Li-po battery fun.. nickname, liposacks, huge punch of power in small packages..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3o_2mwRPdw&feature=related

But i wouldn't worry about Universal batteries exploding. :)
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] emapco:
It didn't work for me. No difference, i isolate that pin or not, just when i isolate, battery meter doesn't work, but the device still turns off in a few minutes after full charging.

what can be a solution? why the device turns off even if it has no information about battery charching level? Tester shows what even after turning the device off, the voltage still remains about 3.8 volts, as if it's ok, it should be 95% battery left and the device should work fol long hours.

dunno what to do...tried everything, exept buying a new battery because of living in Lithuania and not sure if the battery will be shipped here for sure, quite suspicious about ebay..

i think the battery has something like fuse inside(and maybe that's the point why some batteries are not reacting to insulating pin, like in your case), because when i try do turn the LEDs to it, they light for an hour and then turns off, after connecting two pins on the battery, the LEDs work again..
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] catch-22:
If I may be allowed to say that to avoid confusion, we need to separate the battery issue & recalibration issue.

Those with really depleted battery will not be able to resurrect it using 'dj_gabzz hack', It's almost dead, that's it. But those with battery calibration issue may probably benefit from dj_gabzz hack no matter how inadvisable or dangerous it is. You've been warned, so do it at your own risk.

The proper way to calibrate has been mentioned in the HTC Uni Service manual floating around before using DS2760K PC test program. If somebody has the program, we might be able to recal our Uni's. But unfortunately I think it needs a special probe to connect to the battery. :confused:
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] webmin:
hey guy´s

i have to tell you that, after a second full charge, my uni runned the whole day, i often used it to play with colegues at work, and now, after nearby 10 hours after disconnecting from the charger ... the battery shows 75 % !!! after 10 hours of use. this is really great.

for this, i have a question. i have bought my uni as a used devise, i don´t know how long it will work with a new ORIGINAL battery (the orginal is a 1600mA one) with only the phone on.

maybe someone can tell.

cheers
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] emapco:
is it without trying this method ?

when i bought it half a year ago it was about 2 days with phone on, games, sms all the days. but now, suddenly something happens, and it's only a few hours and shutting down at 95%...
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] webmin:
as i wrote at page 1 and 2 it is with testing this method. before my uni shut down at 40 %, but now, yesterday it shut down at 19 % and after a full recharge over night my uni runs since 8 o´clock in the morning and at the moment (07:43 pm / 19:43) it is at 72 % ... tonight i don´t charge it, i let it powered on, (phone only)and then lets see what happens in the morning.

hopefully it will get my battery life longer.

cheers
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] Hocus:
I will try the hack, but I bought 2 batteries from here and I have loved them. Even if they are a bit bulky.

http://www.morpethmobiles.co.uk/products.asp?cat=176
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] dj_gabzz:
i recvommend buying a new batter, yours is too old.. its the max its performing.. i doubt you can squeeze more out of it
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] dj_gabzz:
Youtube

guys these youtube videos are made to intentionally destroy the battery and make it explode, there is no way a battery would do that on its own. you wont be charging the battery when the tape is one.. the tape is used to drain the battery thats all.. over drainage wont happen and even if it did how the hell will the battery have power to explode.. ur telling me if there is a charge left it it its safer than not having a charge at all.

also just for your info you are not draining the battery all the way, all your doing is depleting it below the minimum power level that the universal needs for it to run. say our battery is 3.7v and if the level gets so low or even till 3 volts the uni would turn off because it would need 3.6 or 3.7 constant to run.

so hold your horses, be safe and just use it as directed for miscaliberated batteries.. not for 3 year old batteries. you are just consuming power out of the battery and i guarantee you when its time for the universal to shut down take the battery out and test it on something like a led or even a voltmeter it shows you that it still has power so you are not fully depleting it just depleting it enough to the point where the uni wouldn't be able to run using the remaining power, hence calibrating it to zero percent then you should take the tape out and fully charge it again, everything should come back to normal..

anyway, if u dont feel safe dont try it . i dont wanna be held responsible for anything if you misused it . all my friends tried it, it worked and for me it did. i also read a few responses from the forum here that it worked too. meh, take it or leave it.. i just thought i would share
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] emapco:
please don't misunderstand us. we're thankful for all the info you provided and would try to make it as useful as it's possible. the battery is half a year old, so i'm not sure if i can call it old. will try to drain the battery using LEDs, because the uni is shutting down, i dont know why...
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] lorgem:
My old battery worked perfectly. As of now battery is 69% after 18 hours. Cheers!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] dj_gabzz:
no its ok.. i thought u bought the uni when it first came out like i did.. well if its only 6 months old.. i dont know .. try again charge all the way , tape it and let it shut the uni down.. led would be the other alternative. i hope it works ;)

but don't worry, no offense taken
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] lorgem:
Definitely the procedure is working on my OLD battery :)

As of now my battery meter isl 54% after 24 hours.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] dj_gabzz:
im happy to hear that.. i hope it even goes down much less.. good luck
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] TehPenguin:
I've added the instructions to the wiki:

http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=UniversalBatteryIssue
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] vprince:
Thanx TehPenguin,

It is really a useful solution...
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] dj_gabzz:
Thanks

thank you techpenguin for the add :) and for hosting roms, maintaining the form and all :)
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] emapco:
that's the thing i was talking about, when trying to discharge my battery using LEDs. but people here claim, that after isolating the pin uni can discharge battery to the lowest level(i guess 3 volts). But in my case, it cuts off at 3.5 volts. what's the metter? bad cutting off system inside the battery?

any solutions ? :)

and maybe someone has a voltmeter and can say me how many volts should be on those little two pins in the center? 0.6V like in my case or something like 3volts ?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] Hocus:
I had your problem as well, but I then switched to a black electrical tape and so far so good, hope that helps.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] emapco:
tried...still switches off after a few minutes working without external power..

i think it's the time to try ebay. any advices about buying there ? just have never done it.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] dj_gabzz:
its easy just type in jasjar battery you can get the extended one which comes with its own cover since its bigger or just the regular one (1620 mah or 1750 mah i guess was the highest i have seen for the standard size batteries) if you are not a heavy user just get the regular one for like 10 dollars (usa) good luck

http://cgi.ebay.com/Battery-Fit-O2-...ryZ15034QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

i just came across 1800mah. i doubt its real 1800mah capacity though.. anyway give the above a shot.. or search around for better prices,(shipping from china will take a while, 12 days or so )
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] baymon:
that's exactly what happened to me too, I have 4 uni batteries sent as an extra/by mistake from the seller, but only 2 of them really work properly, and I think that's after hours of comparing between each of them and the cycling procedure. But still I can never get the hours that you guys mentioned above because I will always need to recharge or change the battery every day, now I'm waiting for my 4800mah battery to come, :cool:
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] PalDragan:
I've bought an UNI a year old but not used from a guy.I charged the battery 12 hours,but it didn't last 10 minutes.I charged three times.Every time the UNI dies at battery level 95 % !!! I'm draining it as i speak (writ) with two led's,they're shining bright for a half an hour now,no sign of going out.

I don't get this at all.. but we'll see what will happen.Thanks !
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] Hocus:
Pal dragon, look at the website I put up n an earlier post and just get a new battery. trust me, you might get it working for a bit, but it seems to always screw up later. I adjusted my settings (batteries to go off when not in use)and have been running Ranjus (winmob 6.1) 7.0 version with bluetooth off and I probably recharge my phone every 2 or 3 days. sometimes I even sling box off it, but wifi can be draining.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] PalDragan:
Hocus,i did that already :) i couldn't wait bor the old battery to drain by the leds.A friend gave me another battery,i don't think it's new but it's working much much better,it gives me 24 hours.Which is enough until i save money for a new battery :) So thanks,and my opinion after all this playing arround with this is - buying a new battery.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] nob190:
Not sure about Uni but S200 can really die (repair is about $100.. in a very chip country) if ring comes when buttery is near low capacity. So I would suggest to turn off radio during the procedure.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] EvilJogga:
I've gone for two 3200mAh ones and an external charger. One of those should be enough to keep the Uni alive for a normal day, but having one as a spare keeps me on the safe side and also makes it possible to completely discharge them before recharging.

And two 3200mAh ones gave me the better bang for the buck :D

I now just have to find, or better produce myself, a new bag for the grown Uni...
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] PalDragan:
The battery i got from my friend for my UNI , 1620 maH- it gives me now 24 hours of normal use ( 2 hours of listening music,30 minutes phone calls , and maybe an hour of playing games ) , at this moment the batterymeter shows me 1% :) And the UNI is still working and i'm playing solitaire on it !! :))

Two days ago i wouldn't think that's possible.Cause i had that old battery that was dying at 95% shutting uni down. Happy :)
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] slachizh:
Maybe anybody could help?

Today I received at last new battery 4800 mAh which i've bought from ebay for 37$ with delivery from Hong Kong to Russia, producer Cameron Sino Technology. Well, now it is already more then 16 hours of charging without any success - red led is lighting all that time but my Qtek 9000 doesn't want to start:-( So guys maybe anybody coud advice something? And make the note for yourself about this ****ing producer of battery!!!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] oqaab:
dj_gabzz 10 hugs and 100 kisses to you. My Universal used to shutdown at 0% then it started gowing down at 3% and next day at 7%. I implemented your remedy and it's back at 0%. Nothing blows up! Guaranteed!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro ROM Development] evilv:
You know - I have to ask how heavily those guys abused the batteries to make them explode. In the first one, the small battery is obviously being force fed with far too high a current. How many amps and volts were being stuffed in there?

EDIT: Oh - found it. They put 5 amps into it. In order to make the battery draw that, they'd have to overcome its internal resistance by upping the voltage too. Hardly surprising it blew up and it could never happen using the correct charger. The maximum rated output of the charger supplied with the Universal is 5v and 1 amp. Given that the charge is mediated through the Universal it is probably normally accepting much less than that. Since they are expected to take 4 hours to charge a 1600MAh battery, we can conclude that they are normally charged at a rate of 400 - 500 MA. The experiment we saw in the first video was charging the battery at more than 10 or 12 times the rate it is designed for. That's why the case swells up like a balloon before it bursts and lets out superheated gasses.

I carried out the instructions for deep cycling and charging as set out in the wiki and the battery never got warmer than a little above blood temperature - very slightly warm to the touch, just like when you've been using the phone. It's too early to tell if the battery capacity has improved, I doubt it since the thing is two years old. Even so, before the treatment it would run all day, and allow me to make a few phone calls and send some texts. It was charged overnight every other day for the first year and every night for the second year.