[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Mikeapollo:
Latest update on research - and general advice

NO-GSM bricks - 28/11/07-03/01/08 (from forums)

Type Location Radio Sudden death info :

--------------------------------------------------------

H300 UK 1.54.00.10 Yes Problem from 1.50 T-Mob WM6

H200 unknown 1.54.00.10 yes Unable to reflash radio

H100 Netherlands 1.54.30.10 no Gradual loss of service

H100 unknown 1.54.00.10 yes Died on soft reset

H100 Netherlands 1.54.00.10 yes Died after 12 days

H300 Germany 1.54.00.10 yes Died after 4 weeks

H100 Iran 1.54 stated apparently Died on hard reset

H300 UK 1.54.7 yes Dropouts then dead

H300 UK 1.54.30.10 yes Died rolling to 1.38

H300 Germany 1.54.00.10 yes Died after soft reset

H100 Netherlands 1.54.00.10 Yes GSM increasingly unrealible

H100 Singapore 1.48 yes No GSM after flashing black PRO

H300 Germany 1.54.00.10 yes Died after soft reset (2wks in)

H200 Pakistan 1.50 yes died reverting to 1.48

H300 UK 1.54.30 yes Unable re-flash bad blocks

H100 unknown 1.57 (?????) yes died in use 2 days post flash

n/A Spain 1.51 yes batt hot / 1wk then GSM fail

n/a UK	1.54.7 unsure GSM bad - Died flashing 1.4x

There are another 12 which I don't have quite enough detail on yet to class as a "No-GSM brick" so am not presently including them in this table.

Stats so far :

12 x European found and confirmed failures of which :

* most unable to roll back radio

* if able to - failure still occurs or

* All died after some sort of 1.54.xx flash regardless of rollback

* Majority seem to be European failures many on T-Mobile in Germany/Netherlands and UK

Pakistan/Iran - Actual ROMs and circumstances not clear. 1.5x quoted but no confirmation.

Singapore 1.48 failure - Included in list as failed between 28/11 - present.

NB

Statistically, more people are likely to run the more-recent ROMS so while the

evidence here appears to show that there is a risk with the 1.5x radios - many people with a TyTN in a questionable state of health will be running them anyway so do bear this in mind. Use this info to make an informed choice!!!

The common trend appears to indicate problems starting after flashing a 1.5x radio and staying even if they roll back *OR* dying when trying to flash a lower radio - Again, not conclusive but building a picture.

OFFICIAL updates

Users who are downloading

OFFICIAL

updates from their network operator, HTC or any other "official" source should not need to worry - whether there is an issue or not with radios 1.5x your network should support you in the case of failure as you have an "official" update. Especially as the "official" updates containing radio 1.51.xx and above seem to be in areas where "no gsm bricks" are not being commonly reported (as of yet).

General radio issues

To clarify one point many seem confused about - Your signal lock, radio stability etc is generally unaffected by the OS ROM as the GSM stuff is handled by the RIL itself.

The issues of things like the "dialler going weird", applications locking up, etc are generally

NOT

related to the radio ROM and

are

related to the OS ROM or combination of 3rd party apps/hacks and OS ROM.

Issues with "lost calls" or "unconnected calls" or "bad data"

can be caused by the network itself.

The T-Mobile 3G network in the UK is a good example where it has "off" days in some areas where people miss calls (phone never rings) or need to make 10 attempts to dial out.

Switching to GSM for a while, trying another networks SIM card or moving area often magically "fixes" these issues and by the time the user puts their own SIM back in or moves back into area the network has got it's act together again ;-)

Radio roms themselves

only affect the radio interface layer (RIL)

- the OS "calls" this when it needs to use it and this is where many people seem to be mixing up the issue of "stability" of a radio and "stability" of an OS ROM/application. (remember, the dialler IS an application)

If a radio is unstable - you may experience GSM/3G dropouts, calls breaking up, slow dialling or long signal searches but your OS should on the whole function fine.

If an OS or application is unstable - you may experience dialler lockup or failed calls (remember, the RIL tells windows to tell YOU that you have a call!)

but your GSM/3G signal should be solid, switch between bands and log on and off the network without any fuss.

Overall stability is not just dependent on the OS ROM you are using but also 3rd party applications. Problem solve your device BEFORE just flashing a radio to try and fix an issue as it may give you a nasty surprise and introduce MORE issues - then troubleshooting becomes even harder still and we end up where we are today...

When It's broke, It's BROKE

Some radios work better than others on different networks in different places - that has (and always will!) be the case. People though have become complacent in thinking that they are safe running any old bit of radio code from anywhere and are not looking into what effects it can have.

Many flashers don't even know that mismatched radio bootloaders can cause a brick and will have several fun-packed hours sat down trying to turn it into an "unbrick" (or just make it worse turning it into a breezeblock :D )

The radio rom itself effects how the RIL talks to the OS (windows)

and

how your signals get transmitted to the base station. Two separate things. Usually, the main bit which radio updates change is the radio stack itself - the bit between the radio hardware and windows - with minor tweaks to the radio hardware itself and how it's driven.

However, it is possible as well for a radio rom to drastically change how the radio hardware (the tiny transmitter in your phone) transmits

its signal onto the network... The tiny transmitter might have a current limit of, say, 50mA but there is nothing except software

to limit the current to 50mA... And software can have bugs or can be tweaked and could accidentally drive 100mA through it and burn the device out if it's in a given situation (like a poor reception area, switching bands etc)

IF

(and it's a big if) you find that a poor radio has actually done something like this and caused physical damage to the radio hardware itself (overdriven an output for example) then

unfortunately that's it... It's knackered. No amount of rolling back will fix it to how it was. Like driving an LED with too much

voltage - it will never burn as brightly as it should have done had the specifications been followed in the first place.

Therefore,

*IF*

a radio like 1.5x turns out to have a bug and has introduced problems with the radio hardware itself - upgrading it or downgrading

it will mean the problem will remain

- At this point the only cure will be to have the whole radio PGA hardware replaced by a service centre.

Hence the importance of finding out

*IF*

we are seeing European devices being damaged in this way.

The better news about the RADIO failures (roll-back for warranty)

Most people who have experienced these recent failures find

their OS will still boot

- in which case it is possible to "roll it back" to how it was if you are under warranty. Don't worry about rolling back the radio - if it's dead it's screwed anyway so doesn't show any trace of what

radio ROM was on it in the first place. Just get the correct OS and bootloaders back on it.

T-MOBILE UK OFFICIAL WM6 ROM WARNING

I've given T-Mobile UK a call about this one... The "official" T-Mobile UK WM6 ROM is in effect a beta and while it is on Tmobiles own site, it IS NOT officially supported by T-Mobile

(according to tech support) and was not meant for general release. Therefore should be treated with caution until more is known and researched - however technically you should be supported and can roll back the device if necessary anyway to the official Tmobile WM5 ROM for warranty (which is, at least at the moment, available on their download site).

This ROM appears to contain radio 1.50 - ONE user (Sbirsen - view post) confirms he had problem introduced with radio 1.50 which was a perfectly working vario II, he upgraded to 1.54 and down but still suffered the problems which 1.50 introduced.

Despite his very kind assurance that there is clearly no problem with radio 1.54 we do not know if his device is dead or alive as he's moved onto trying to brick a TyTN-II due to getting fed up with radio issues apparently not caused by his radio flash:rolleyes:

Back to unsarcastic mode - I suspect by T-Mobiles response - he is not the only one and some drilling on the board here may reveal more over the next

few weeks.

This ROM may also be pulled over the next few days due to "feedback issues"

- sorry no more info on that one.

IN the mean time please just be careful when selecting your radios, fault find

FIRST

before thinking a flash will magic up a solution, do your research *properly* and look out for warning signs.