yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doug2873:
unfortunately this is a driver problem and not a windows mobile problem, so I doubt he will be able to help, unless he has contact with HTC's developers and can ***** at them for us about how the video drivers for this phone are basically nonexistent and how HTC sucks balls. Thanks for volunteering the help though.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ladytoast:
Hi might not be able to help but he might have some very interesting info in other areas.. get him to sign up :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] manaaa:
i dont know if its any usefull or been posted before, but i found a post with some informations about the qualcomm 7200 chip. maybe interesting ... or not.

http://groups.google.pl/group/sybase.public.sqlanywhere.mobilink/msg/ec22cf431ea9cc12
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] redsrule2500:
Ugh hurts...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Isaygarcia:
so the kaiser has or not 3D hardware accelerator?.. im confussed.. >.<! i really like my kaiser.. and i have a hope for 3d hardware acceleration..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ahson:
class action law suit sounds good to me... Problem is I've never been part of anything like that, do we even have a chance with this? If so, where do we start?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
Yes, I think a class action suit is the best option here to bring the attention.

Even though that we will not win the suit, but the publicity should be enough to lift this issue up to the media.

Any lawyer around? :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] keriso:
Allow me to throw in my two cents on this issue :

This may be have been explored before (forgive me if this has been done with no success) but why don't the collective whole group here invite HTC people to come onboard this forum and make it as one of their defacto forum for interfacing with the endusers of their device? In this sense, instead of fighting imaginary foes, we can really get somewhere when we have some key people inside HTC here to represent them on such discussions and bugs? Just from reading here, it seems all the different parties are trying to reach out to the different HTC people but it seems the key people are in Taiwan itself.

unless of course, they are aware of the problem and that's why they choose to remain silent...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
With the support from a technical side (Posters here) , tons of emails I could print out related to this , and a copy of the petition and guarantee on support for costs, I might kick of a lawsuit here in Taiwan towards HTC.

They certainly do not want to be on the 6PM evening news.

Question is, what should be the charge?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] HeatWave:
As I said in the "petition" topic. I think we should also all complain to the phone-operator companies too in my opinion.

Individual consumer complaints might be ignored by a huge company like HTC, but if AT&T and t-mobile get tons of complaints and send them to HTC they might be more willing to comply.

I'm even going to write to a consumer rights program here in the Netherlands too.

Public exposure, all that we can do I think.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gfxMaven:
HTC's official stance.

After going back and forth with HTC support and demanding feedback from management this was the final official response from some cat named Muhaham. I'll be posting this in the other two Kaiser-driver related threads as well. Me, I'm done. Unless XDA Devs can figure this out I'll think three, four, five times before ever purchasing HTC. If Eten would just upgrade their memory to128MB I'll be set for life. Anyway, the response:

Hello ******,

We here at HTC Technical Support definitely understand your concern about using our devices to their maximum potential. In this case regarding the hardware acceleration for our HTC TyTN II and its carrier branded versions that is affecting the viewing, capturing, rendering, and playback of media on the device.

We have received lots of user feedback regarding the use of the above functions similar to what you are experiencing.

Unfortunately, at this point in time, we do not have a solution to increase the device's performance with respect to those functions; however, we have forwarded your concerns to our Product Development Team for resolution.

I hope we have answered your question in detail. Feel free to contact us again if you have any further questions.

HTC Technical Support
http://www.america.htc.com
http://www.htcwiki.com
http://www.cingular.com/support/

False advertising, bait-and-switch, whatever. Most powerful device my ***.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] wootty2000:
But what about the unlocker project?

There are lots of posts about the poor video performance, but not alot about the unlocker project?

I have never once played a video on my TYTN2, but I have needed to use my phone on a different provider.

Im not saying that video playback is not important, because it is, but personally I am prepaired to put £10 in to the kitty if olipro thinks he might be able to provide an unlocker
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chrisnash:
I put Hard SPL v1 on orange and vodafone branded TyTN II's and they both work fine now with any SIM.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
I agree, lets start doing that.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doug2873:
The point of this was primarily for the video drivers to get fixed...if you REALLY need to get your phone unlocked then contact tupisdin since he has the master list...yes in a perfect world you could get it unlocked for free but in a perfect world the video drivers for this phone would work also. Hopefully chainfire and the others are making significant progress, but without some of the SDK tools from HTC, its going to be very hard to do.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] FabianNL:
But are they really working on those drivers? Or do we only hope so?

Can 'chainfire and the others' confirm this?

Because I have read many posts about people who are focusing on the community but never a post of them which confirms working on it and even making (some sort of) progress.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] HeatWave:
Even though SIM-unlocking is nice and all, it's not something the Kaiser should have out of the box when you buy it branded. It's not a standard "function" imho. I never paid for a sim-unlock on any of my 6 WM devices, but since this one was not possible I went ahead and paid for once.

The videodriver matter on the other hand is something that's just flawed in the device for which we all paid a bundle. So I can understand if that has the highest priority for now :).

But both are welcome I guess ;).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] basilrsa:
Sim Unlocker

We in South Africa are fortunate to have only the HTC TyTN II available. The networks all buy from the distributor, so all the phones are sim unlocked with HTC software loaded.

I have sent an SMS to the distributor about the Video driver problems, but they are as silent on the matter as HTC Taiwan.

Hopefully this matter gets resolved or else it's bye-bye TyTN II and HTC.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Well I can confirm I have been working on this and put a LOT of hours in, but I'm running out of ideas. And though I've made significant progress in getting certain components of the drivers to load, there's nothing visible actually working yet. Right now, I'm considering 'cutting my losses', so to speak, and concentrate my efforts on spreading awareness.

That being said, THIS thread was originally to get cmonex/olipro a TyTNII to screw around with for the video drivers and unlocker.

I will have to admit, that cmonex is a lot better at this kind of stuff than I am though, also a lot more patient. I would not be surprised if she succeeds where I seem to have failed so far.

Another thing here is though, that one guy claims to be able to release a SIM unlocker within a few days, if this is true we do not need OliPro to do this anymore.

Yet another is the bounty. Now this is just my personal opinion, but I would say to them either we get you a Kaiser (we take the risk) or you get a Kaiser (you take the risk and may get $3000+). But that's just me.

Also, maybe the bounty can be better spent for the lawyer fund talked about in the "D3D or OpenGL ES" discussion thread. That's not my call though :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
I'd be up for that. I for one am sick and tired of getting steamrollered by big corporations and if we can take a stand, I would be willing to chip in. There are now 3 devices affected by this issue, and it is quite clear HTC has no qualms about putting out new product with the same flaws. My only hesitation is that HTC does not specifically promise anything about video quality, so I am not sure there is a basis for a suit. So as far as forcing them to provide a solution or to provide a rebate/refund, I think we don't have much luck. I think the real power though would be in the publicity. If we can get enough press, we migh have a shot at getting some response from HTC.

Sad we would have to go to this length though. Seems like it wouldn't be a super expensive dev effort if all the code is in front of you. Testing and rollout might be a bit more costly, but still....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] HeatWave:
I doubt indeed that a company like HTC would have problems just intergrating a driver into WM6.

or.....they did run into problems and decided just to NOT implement the driver and pray no-one complains.

The problem as always with things like this is that you never get to talk face to face to the ones responsible. So I still think that going public and complaining to the telcos will yield better results.

The second a big TV program adresses this issue in public they will have no other choice than to respond.

So like others have rooted for, keep on mailing, calling all the companies that have a part in this and on the side try and get consumer organisations to pick this up. My efforts resulted in a short mail asking for more sources on the problem from a Dutch TV show. It might not get us anywhere soon, but it's a try.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
Does anyone know if Cmonex actually has possession of a TyTN II yet? After all if she is able to fix this, would be cheaper than a lawsuit (although granted only a short term fix until HTC's next product!) If not, how about using a fraction of the bounty to fund a purchase?

@ Chainfire: sorry to hear your bag of tricks is almost empty! Still, really appreciate all the time you have put into this so far! Another modest donation heading your way after payday, by way of thanks!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
She doesn't, and thanks :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Kepela523:
How about we find someone who works for HTC and hold them as a hostage??.. maybe this might get things moving quicker...?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
A little drastic no?

On a side, but related, note: and UC Berkeley alumni here on the boards, with access to the @Cal online alumni community?

Also, people have mentioned contacting HTC's associated carriers to see if they can put pressure on HTC. I was just reading the following article:

http://www.google.com/intl/en/press/pressrel/20071105_mobile_open.html

which paints a lovely picture of shared development, open access to software/hardware and general willing co-operation between HTC, Google, Qualcomm and others for development of Android. The statement by Peter Chou, CEO HTC, particularly seems at odds with their actual approach.

Just wondered if we could use this info to gain support? We already know Qualcomm is a no hope situation, but perhaps approaches to Google, T-mobile etc to inform them of the issues we are facing as HTC product users. Might be worth informing them of the growing movement against HTC and the possibilty of lawsuits. If they realise that their association with HTC might damage their own standing in consumers' minds, they might try and get HTC to sort this mess out. Also, I am sure big names like Google wouldn't appreciate the big unveiling of Android to be mired in lawsuits and negative publicity surrounding one of the projects founding companies!

What do people think? Problem is, I don't know where to start. PR departments maybe?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dazzle999:
just a thought but why are we waiting for drivers for a wm6 device when google already has the drivers for this on the android os???

so it's just a matter of time when they release their phone and someone gets their drivers out of the device and maybe the complete os will be free to download in the future so you can flash it on your own phone

since htc is mentioned in the video of the android as a potential custumor and they are still releasing phones with the qualcomm card it's just waiting for a new phone with the right support of the driver and start puzzling on that rom to extract the driver(the only problem it will be written for linux)but its a start...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
I think you gravely underestimate the fect that it's a linux driver.

If it was simply to just "sntach" drivers from another OS ATi users wouldn't have been complaining for year for lack of Linux driver support for an example.

Though if the drivers are open source (I saw no hint of this being open source though) then it will of course help a lot in understanding the mechanics.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] redsrule2500:
JUST CALLED HTC, HIGHLY RECCOMEND EVERYONE CALLING HTC!!!!!!

The guy on the phone said that he's seen it before and he's had numerous calls about it and he forwarded my information. He said personally he would exchange it for another device, but that if enough people call in they could probably get a software fix however he has no idea when that will occur.

SUCKS!!!!!!!! At least I joined the mass of people pissed about this !!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] winthropdc:
Call from HTC support

I spoke to HTC support in Australia last week and sent them 4 example movie files. The technician, Alper, called me yesterday after I sent a chaser email.

Here is a summary of what was discussed:

He was able to replicate the bad performance with the files sent. He escalated the issue to the HTC engineers who have also replicated the issue.

There is a ROM update coming for the phone, due around February. He thinks that this update will include video drivers but cannot 100% confirm that yet. He will keep me posted.

I suggested that he request HTC to update their website with information about the ROM upgrade and if it will include video drivers.

I think everyone will calm down a bit if HTC show that they will fix it.

David
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dazzle999:
here is the vid i talked about...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwIUEnXctuA&feature=related

timestamp:1:58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FJHYqE0RDg

timestamp: 4:04
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] xmoo:
Seems like, nowadays when every body calls HTC, they admit there is a problem and they also say it's going to get fixed in mid February.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] export800:
Maybe we could use the $4,000+ in donations to outsource to india a call center to call up HTC continuously about the poor video drivers. Maybe after 300-400 calls a day they would get the idea. Just an idea...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] seanpint:
for that money I will call HTC 300 to 400 times a day :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rachidnl:
Well, I'll find out about that tomorrow, when I'll call HTC in Holland.

I might support a testing device for developers who might be able to build drivers for the TyTN II, but I think it's too soon at this stage. HTC seems to be working on a fix, although this has not officially been confirmed, of course. I'd like to wait until February to see how this develops. I'm eager to find out what HTC will tell me tomorrow, anyway.

On a related note, we should not forget that the lack of a display driver has a far more widespread effect than only the sluggish performance of video playback. Please mind that all the work that the ATI chip would be doing if there actually was a driver is now done by the main CPU, so it will have less time to service other processes and thus slows down the already-not-so-very-responsive WM6 even more.

I'd like to think of it as using Windows XP on a PC with an nVidia GeForce 8800GT with the Generic VGA drivers instead of the ForceWare drivers. You'll notice a severe performance degredation in about every area, not only while using a DirectDraw app.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nyx2008:
KS20

Isn't there a way to reverse engineer of extract the driver from the LG KS20? Same chipset but doesn't seem to suffer from this problem. Maybe we should focus on that instead of setting high hopes on HTC to come up with a solution
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mackaby007:
Damn good point and excellently put!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
Been tried already I'm afraid - just read around a bit and you'll see. Welcome to the forum.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] benchMarc:
And the news is on the biggest techsite in the Netherlands: http://pro.tweakers.net/nieuws/5134...roblemen-in-nieuwe-generatie-smartphones.html

For all the people who can't read Dutch: this article tells about the driver problems and that it's affective to all the latest deviced of HTC.

So it's a start :) We need big international techsites to publish this problem also.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greenbrd:
Videoconferencing on Kaiser?

Somebody will need to educate me on this, but I thought the whole point of the Kaiser having the front camera was for a current or future videoconferencing application? With no video drivers, is the Kaiser capable of doing this?

Because if it's not, and if videoconferencing is indeed the carriers' future plans, I'd assume that HTC is working on the drivers.

In other words, if HTC's technical blunders are preventing people from purchasing AT&T's videoconferencing service, you can bet AT&T will not be happy.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] met3ora:
Got an email back from HTC regarding the video drivers, and they've just sidestepped the issue and told me they're working on them, with no planned release date.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] winthropdc:
I have successfully made a video call from my TyTN II to another 3G phone. The video was choppy but I don't know if that was data speed or display drivers. I only know 1 person who can receive video calls.

NOTE: The AT&T Tilt does not have the front camera. I don't think they wanted to promote this service.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] htc-suck:
Drivers - IMPOSSIBLE?

Could there be some technical issues preventing HTC from implementing the driver? e.g. video memory speed, power consumption...

I could be wrong, all a driver does is just implementing graphical function calls which invoking the proper hardware to process data at memory block such and such. With proper documentation, a programmer can do it in a week.

Why are they dragging the issue for so long?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
video memory speed doesn't really matter, even hardware rendering while using the main ram would be faster than using software rendring and main ram so it's really kind of moot.

power consumption is actually lowered as the purpose specific units of the chipset draw less power than using the CPU (at least when it comes to GUI and video rendering)

personally I think the tecnical issues are:

1. they can't be bothered

2. it would cost them some money

3. we're still too few asking for it for it to be a worthwhile effort for them to provide the driver

;)

and I agree, this can't really be that hard work, it's not as if they program the actual driver, that's already done for them

all they need to do is to customize it for their device

while it might take a little more than a week, depending on how many people are working on it, it's certainly not going to take more than a month or two
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] HeatWave:
Saw that too this morning, it's indeed a start. :).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] FloatingFatMan:
Has anyone actually contacted the tech sites which gave the latest HTC devices rave reviews? Seems to me, they're some of the best places to be made aware of the problems.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rachidnl:
I've just got off the phone with HTC and I'm completely stunned by their lack of competence! :eek:

I spoke to some UK dude, and after giving him my IMEI and phone number and all that stuff, I told him about the problem. He said it could've been caused by a 'minor software glitch'.

I then told him about the lack of display drivers as reported by many of us, both here and to HTC Support by phone. His reply made me go crazy: "this problem only exists on TyTN IIs with Windows Mobile 5. The ones with WM6 don't have this issue". I beg your pardon?! A TyTN II with Windows Mobile FIVE? He said the first few handsets ran WM5, not 6. I told him I bought TyTN II on launch day but he then said not all first few handsets were running 5.

A TyTN II running Windows Mobile FIVE? That's a screamer!

So, he said I couldn't have the problem I reported. I told him that I DO have the problem, regardless of what he said, so he should find a solution. He then discussed with his supervisors for about ten minutes, leaving me on hold. He then said they were unaware of the problem, mentioned that TyTN II was one of the most powerful handsets available and this issue shouldn't exist. He then asked me to describe the problem I had with my music files. Wait, music files?! This was about video stupid!

As for my problem, he finally adviced me to move the video file I'm having issues with onto the main memory instead of the storage card. I told him my video file was too large to fit into main memory, then I thought to myself: "what am I doing? I'm SURE that's not the issue and this guy is useless and I should hang up the first chance I get". So I thanked him for his time (not for his advice, of course) and said goodbye.

This guy was absolutely clueless. And the end of the converstation wasn't exactly fun, as again he said HTC was unaware of the problem.

> "Many friends on forums have called HTC and some of your colleagues have acknowledged the problems".

< "We don't have such a department that responds to e-mails like that."

> "They called you, not e-mailed you."

< "We haven't received such repots by phone either."

> "So they're lying?"

< "I most certainly can't comment on that."

So I'm totally fed up with this guy and probably I'll try to call later today, hopefully I'll meet a more decent person.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Boinng:
It's now on the Register - http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/17/htc_chipset_anger/ :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rachidnl:
I've just posted a message on what we're doing on Usenet: microsoft.public.pocketpc.