yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
I am a fun of Apple generally! But lets face it! With an iphone you can't read pdfs and this is what I needed most! This third party nonsense is out of question IMHO! But of course if iphone v2 has the ability to be an all around device I'll certainly buy it!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
if your going to get just a Touchscreen device with no keyboard, then go with the o2 xda flame. or maybe some of those Eten devices out there. still better than the iPhone
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] servergod:
Third part apps

As an owner of an iPhone, an Apache and a Tilt,

There is no shortage of third party applications.

I currently run the 1.1.3 firmware, and it is jailbroken as well. PDF's no problem

I just got the Kaiser 4-5 days ago and am running Dutty's 6.1.

Both devices have their ups and downs, but if the 3d/opengl really happened,well then WM6 would be a contender in the rendering capabilities, possibly even out performing the iphone.

I really hope to see progress on this issue with the drivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
Maybe we should start a new sticky threat for the video drivers project?

There has not been any meaningful posts for that in a long time ...

Who is working on it?

What is the status?

How can others help?

What is needed?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Atlantaman:
Totally agree with you man. But you're probably wasting your breath 'cos I said the same thing ages back and was totally ignored:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1945157&postcount=398

If there was a project, I see no signs of it now. JJ
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
Maybe part of the problem is that the class action thread is not a sticky?

this is the first thread people see about the issue and so it gets the most posts.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Atlantaman:
Yeah, that sounds right. In fact, I guess the developers working on the project could easily find a project thread whether it's sticky or not. So maybe the Mods should unsticky this one (maybe create a new one) and sticky the class action one instead.

Any Mods reading this? JJ
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
I can give you guys an update of sorts about this.

I have spoken to a couple of developers here on XDA and can confirm they are able to at least look into this issue. THey are are standing by, waiting for a device to work on.

After a couple of poorly received attempts to collect funds to get a TyTN2 to them, I have been in touch with another forum user whose friend has a blacklisted device they are willing to donate to the development effort.

What we need to do now is get the device to them, and that is where things currently stand.

So we have all the bits we need, just need to get them together. But no, as far as I know, no dev is currently working on this.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] drownage:
Would it not be close to impossible to make without an SDK... anyone see what is cooking in the Qualcomm's SDK...?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChumleyEX:
So is the phone in the US and the person in the UK? Can we get an estimate on the cost of shipping. I'm down to help. Also does anyone have a shipping account we can use?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
No need for all that - people and phone are all in the UK, just in different areas.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChumleyEX:
BAH then I am usless.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tranaee:
Yes! What are cmonex and olipro doing? Am I losing something here?..:confused:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] wsmith79:
ive read almost this whole thread and this is damn rediculous. the tilt i own is as slow as you all mention! luckily for me ive found a way to get out of my phone(this is what im doing at the moment and getting an iphone from att). my tilt, when it goes into g mode quits working, i dont get emails, phone calls, texts, etc. and i cant dial out either. att sent me a refurb which did the same thing.

im now getting ready to get my last refurb then its off to the store to switch phones! i do infact actually have this problem and the end result is me getting out of this damn phone and into an iphone, which at this exact moment in time is the only alternative from att for a high quality data phone.

what im gathering from all this is that htc is only planning on patching the VIDEO side of this problem not the actual problem with the device in as a whole. in all honesty id rather have the phone respond quicker than playback video properly in WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER. this is my first and last htc product...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rvdgeer:
Some hope?

Hmmm...

Looks like these guys are on to something...

Not sure if this is really about the drivers and if we can benefit form this, but at least it's bringing me some hope again...

Take a look here to see what I'm talking about:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1959255&postcount=108
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tranaee:
This is a new statetment from HTC and I think that is quite OK for me.. I mean, do we really 100% know that the problem is a driver problem?.. Opera 9.5 is only software and if someone would tell you that the perfect scrolling comes from a new set of video-drivers you would believe him, wouldn't you?

Tuesday, February 26, 2008

HTC Imageon Chipset Issue: Reactive Statement

Posted by Jason Dunn @ 10:00 PM

Remember that HTC video driver issue we've discussed a few times here over the past month or two? Here's another response on the issue from HTC - and this one seems fairly definitive.

"Some of our top engineers have investigated video performance on our devices and have discovered a fix that they claim will dramatically improve performance for common on-screen tasks like scrolling and the like. Their fix would help most of our recent touch-screen products including the Touch family of devices and TYTN II / Tilt, Mogul / XV6900. The update is in testing and we hope to release it soon.

However this fix is not a new video driver to utilize hardware acceleration; it is a software optimization. Video drivers are a much more complicated issue that involves companies and engineers beyond HTC alone. We do not want to lead anyone to believe they should expect these. To explain why we are not releasing video acceleration instead of the optimization I offer you our official statement..."

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,58508
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] p51d007:
I don't care about video acceleration, since I don't watch movies, or play video

games on my tilt. I would like the screen switching from landscape to portrait

to improve, and overall desktop performance to improve.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Yzord:
What i want is a normal playing device with movies and normal scrolling in a browser. What we have now is way under the normal performance of a WM2003 device.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mav42:
Spoke to consumer affairs here in Melb Aust (dept of fair trading in other states) told them of the issues with the phone and lack of support from HTC also mentioned what i was told regarding what the phone, and what it was advertised it can do but as we all know cant, after all this, i was told i have a case and they(consumer affairs) will pursue it :).

If everyone did the same HTC might take notice....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] wsmith79:
i emailed htc techsupport and got a decent response from a guy. it basically concludes what we were all hoping wasnt going to happen.. that htc is saying tough luck and wait for their next better more expensive phone. i will never buy an htc product again.

Hello William,

Thank you for your inquiry

HTC is committed to delivering a portfolio of devices that offer a wide variety of communication, connectivity and entertainment functionality. HTC does not offer dedicated or optimized multimedia devices and can confirm that its Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices do not use ATI’s Imageon video acceleration hardware.

HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video. These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most smartphones and enable a variety of audio and video file formats.

HTC values its customers and the overall online community of mobile device enthusiasts and fans. HTC plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support.

Just to let you know, for more information on your device you can always check www.htcwiki.com.

I hope we have answered your question in detail. Feel free to contact us again if you have any further questions.

HTC Technical Support

http://www.america.htc.com

http://www.htcwiki.com

http://www.cingular.com/support/

--- Original Message ---

From: wsmith@parkagencywest.com

Received: 2/27/08 1:04:40 AM EST

To: info@htc.com

Subject: unless a display driver is unveiled, i will never buy another htc product again

hello there,

i recently upgraded from a palm treo to a tilt. i am a customer of att and thought i was getting the cutting edge pda phone that you advertise the 8925 to be.

viewing on the internet via internet explorer is terrible! i bet opera mobile is loving every second of this because theyre making a fortune for a slightly better viewing and scrolling experience online. When i saw the micro sd slot i thought to myself this phone has it all and its going to crush the iphone. whats the point of having an expandable storage slot when you cant watch a damn movie on the tilt because the frame rate is so slow...

if i had known about you not offering a display driver for the ati graphics driver that is BUILT IN to the qualcomm processor i wouldve bought the iphone instead of this,

WHY YOU ASK? because the iphone is capable of handling all my business needs, i.e email, call quality ,etc. PLUS it offers an enjoyable media experience as well.

i am a first time HTC owner and if this driver is not offered to the public to fix my 8925 i will NEVER purchase another HTC product again regardless of how you market the next new phone because I WILL NOT BELIEVE YOU!

thats the success to surviving and thriving in a technological industry is that your existing customers BELIEVE in your product.

William E. Smith

Internet Manager

Park Agency West

530.355.9129 direct

530.222.0889 office

530.222.0689 fax
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Raven_coda:
Listen to the BBC report on the Google Android platform.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/ne...sb=1&news=1&ms3=54&ms_javascript=true&bbcws=2

If you'll listen you'll here that the demo phone they are using has the Qualcomm MSM7200 and from the sounds of it they already have a working hardware driver.

Once the platform goes open source I'm jumping ship on WM and will work on porting to my tilt. Heck with closed source and waiting for somebody to get off their butts and do something right.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] wizzzard:
What are you waiting for HTC

Quake appears to run quickly and smoothly on an MSM7200:)

Extensive/Expensive 3rd party development to provide drivers for this platform HTC? Are you not a development partner for Android? I hope an Android ROM is released for our Kaisers the hard work looks to have been done.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mav42:
re:http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/new...t=true&bbcws=2

hmmmm give him the money so he can give us Android:)))

quake @ 30fps is excellent, only thing it didnt show was movie play back.

But it does show what our chipset can do,before it was knee capped by HTC
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
You're right. Here's what the git repo commit history is listing:

http://git.android.com/?p=linux-msm.git;a=commit;h=e8fd56a303bf5e8f84af80999fa398eb8cc1d670

Isn't it nice when the OS maker also provides all the drivers instead of leaving it up to the vendors to do a hack job?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] muthaflaco:
I'm just talking here, but since Android is open source, and they seem to have figured out how to use the hardware acceleration on the 7200's, does that mean that the drivers they used are also open source? Maybe these can be tweaked to use with WM? I understand Linux is a different OS, just thinking out loud....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Few issues..

A. since it is a different OS, the entire driver structure is different and either needs a port or a wrapper around a driver blob

B. I think the Android SDK license explicitly says you can't copy out sdk code and use it in other software
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] designerno1:
what can we do to get this performance to our htc kaisers? i would du anything for it. because i love the phone, but i'am not loving the lag about internet browsing and watch to viedeos ok watch my tom tom :-(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Isaygarcia:
just an idea..

why dont contact HTC and ask for the progress of the fix? and tell them to keep us informed about it, i (as many more) am a member of the e-club from HTC, its suppossed to inform but it doesnt..

just an idea ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jasperrr:
Hold on, Android is the google OS :O

Awesome
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChumleyEX:
I want to use my 1337 Quake skills on my tilt. Did someone say something about a BT game pad? and Quake? ... I look down at my phone and ask myself where I went wrong in all of this. Was it the divorce? Was I just not strict enough? Was I too strict? no HTC was too cheap!

I WANT QUAKE!!!!!!!

:mad::mad:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] storino03:
Yeah, it would be sweet playing Quake on our phones.

--James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] yi_min82:
optimized??

sound like changing the 32bits color to 16bits color...hahah..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] lil14kid:
does it have the ati hardware

does the kaiser have the ati hardware? im confused htc says it doesnt have the hardware or the drivers?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
it does.. HTC means that it's not "enabled" so it's as if "it's not there"
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moritz.narnhammer:
Why the hell is everyone just whining and uttering empty classaction threats but nobody donates money for development qualcomm powered HTC devices for the developers?

We need an XDA Star, Orbit 2 or MDA III for every single one willing, trustworthy and capable man (and perhaps woman, dunno) that VOLUNTEERS to enhanche our devices capabilities.

Please, fisha21, open a new donation thread, have it made sticky, unsticky this one, and I will be the first one to donate.

PS.:

That issue doesn't only affect Kaiser Users, so the other forums (for example the Nike forum) should also have their donation threads.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Umm.... we've collected over $7.4K... good morning
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] nicholasendean:
I too would cough up cash no problem!

I am fed up to the back teeth with my Kaiser. Never bothered moaning previously but when a 5yr old little girl (my daughter) is playing "Pocket sand" on it and suddenly asks why daddies phone screen is as she puts it "freezing and shaking" when she tries to add some sand via the stylus, then it starts to pee me off. This problem is now VERY apparent and is becoming a pain in the rear end. I lived with it before but it effects a ton of applications and is not good enough.

1.TomTom

2.Pocket Sand

3.Internet Explorer

4.Videos.

Oh, and I have a damn problem with juddering in general when scrolling documents content.

I was trying not to worry about it but now I am getting used to the phone its soooo noticeable
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] drownage:
http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=news&id=5070

Does that mean... HTC does have drivers for 7200... This is just convincing me that problem has to deal with Qualcomm... maybe no ATI imageon INSIDE CPU...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moritz.narnhammer:
We've collected bull****.

Empty pledges that money will be paid in the future when drivers are available, made by pseudonymous forum avatars. My crystal ball tells me not half the money will be transferred once the drivers are released.

If you are a developer that is motivated by money you will work for better money that is sure to be transfered once the work is done because it's already there and you have a contract.

What we do have are developers (cmonex and olipro) that are willing to look into the matter, but dont have qualcomm devices.

When they ask for loaned/sponsored ones, they get largely ignored/insulted.

That's what we have:

2 developers without development devices and a community blowing out a lot of hot air.

Good morning, sir.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
Uhmmmm... Bepe, Mamaich, Helmi_C.... and a view others maybe :D

Hot air :confused: , no Developers :confused:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
I'm sure that once there will be a need for money to actually get those drivers, we'll have not less than 7.5K, but MORE than 7.5K, and probably a lot more. Why? Because once drivers are a real possibility, many, many people including me will be ready to dish out a lot more than 20-30 bucks.

And no, it's not just hot air. We've managed to get a LOT of mass media coverage, I didn't even think it could be so widespread. We've contacted many driver development companies, we've wrote a lot of letters to HTC, Qualcomm, ATi, AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, etc. I've talked to AT&T HQ for example. We've increased the awareness to a huge level, and that's EXACTLY what HTC was and is afraid of.

Right now we're waiting for an answer from Rebecca from Google, she is involved with Andriod and MSM chipset hardware acceleration, and they have drivers. We'll see what she will say.

Of course, I don't even mention that we managed to go from "ZOMG best phone" to identifiying the problem, locating the faulty/improperly working hardware, identifiying possible ways to solve the problem and moving into every possible direction to solve it.

We're not all seasoned driver developers here, and we're not all class-action lawsuit attorneys, in the end we're all simple consumers (majority). You have to value the effort. Besides, we're nowhere near to being done with this.

You should respect that.

On a side note, though, I am concerned with your comment. I thought we've sent a Kaiser to them? Didn't they get it yet?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Michaelr219:
Well said, to the pro-sumers who have made us consumers aware of this issue, we are on the verge of experiencing some results. We all know that this issue wont be completely resolved without the drivers, but atleast we should receive this software update soon. Which is a start. Not only that, but with all the media that is following this issue, I think it is a matter of time before a bigger name comes along and helps us fund out cause.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mav42:
This message proudly brought to you by HTC

ok who left the gate open again lolololol
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moritz.narnhammer:
We´ll see, I´ll be happy if so, my money will surely be there too.

But I don´t trust people in general when it comes to financial matters.

But to develop, each developer need his own device to be able to work efficient.

Diplomacy is something else than swinging a big stick with "fake lawsuit" written on it.

And if I threaten a lawsuit, i get an attorney beforehand and go to court if my demands aren´t met.

Though you are right about the public awareness, for sure a good community effort, but partly messed up by some hotheads.

That sounds promising, didn´t know that.

True.

I hope so.

My (financial) aid is available.

I do

1 Kaiser has been delivered as far as i know.

But they need a second Qualcomm device, and that´s more important than talking about money that will be there in the future.

And when i see that oh so many people pledge to donate in the future, but only one person donates to the actual development effort, i get angry.

Understandable?

@mav42:

<((()< for the troll.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] muthaflaco:
Give me the PayPal address. I'll donate right now.

We're all frustrated at the way this thing has been handled by HTC and Qualcomm. Lets keep this thread positive, it'll make it easier as we wait for results.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moritz.narnhammer:
I´ll talk to the respective devs tomorrow, it will be a lot easier to donate directly to them than to me.

Will put up their paypal adresses in a new thread if they agree.

(I also don´t seem very trustworthy with my 4 or 5 posts on this forum :D)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] storino03:
Now that a fix may be made by HTC, whether it's actual acceleration or not, donations are not needed anymore and I don't see why we should if we have to wait and see what the fix is all about upon release.

I don't even think 1/3 of the $7500 will ever materialize, and if 10 people are working on it, that only leaves about $100-$200 each...and for what? 80+ hours of work? That's not very much of a consolation prize.

--James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgottlieb:
Yeah, but they will get the best bragging rights....Ever. :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] weaselcossey:
I agree with DarkDvr

I haven't pledged any money, mostly because i don't own a one, but my wife has an At&t Tilt. If the drivers become available from one of the developers on this site, I would gladly pay for it just for the few times I use her device. Why not pledge? I'm self-employed sometimes I might go a month without getting a paycheck. If I pledge now, replace the device later, then I look like a jerk. How much would I pay for the drivers? I don't know up to $50 I guess (this is not a pledge, I am not a jerk). My main point is this: even if all the pledges are not paid, i'm sure there are MANY others like myself that would be willing to pay for the drivers when they are available. Not the best way to do things, I understand, but it is a fact.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jimcisme:
I don't quite understand, ATI provieds drivers for all its video chipsets ( or so I thought ) Whats so different about this? I understand its embeded in a qualcom chip but it still has ATI's name attached to it . The Tilt can be had for $49.00 from amazon with a 2 year contract, but if it wont play video I don't think I'll by one even at that price. Is there still hope of a driver from any where at this point?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] seelanj:
Good reading material for MSM7x00

http://brew.qualcomm.com/bnry_brew/pdf/brew_2007/Tech-303_Ligon.pdf
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] moritz.narnhammer:
The so called fix is no fix, just a tweakpack.

The issue won´t be resolved until a GPU driver comes out.

Everything else is insufficient symptome therapy.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
HTC's fix hjas nothing to do with what we're trying to do here. We're trying to enable/use 3D acceleration of Imageon. HTC made it CLEAR to us that they will never help us there. Their fix has to do with regular control rendering, it's cool and nice, but we're after a much more complicated and lucrative goal. You should follow the news carefully.

I'm tired of saying this, but there will be alot more than 7.5K once there's a real possibility of drivers. If we had a concrete contract with a group of developers who would promise us to try and create drivers or return money/portion of money, all this forum needs is a paypal address to send the money to.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
moritz.narnhammer actually makes a good point - who is looking into the currect development project with those 2 guys that were supposed to have the Kaiser now?

Why aren't we seing any updates/news on that? If they needs something else - we need to know.

Whoever is handling that needs to constantly give us updates. Come on people, don't let this go to waste just because u couldn't get ur ass of the chair.