yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rachidnl:
I just got off the phone with HTC Support UK and spoke to some dude named Joe. I mentioned the video problems I have with my TyTN II, which display easily in Windows Media Player and told him about the TomTom comparison between the TyTN II and a three year old HTC device, as well as general sluggishness while operating the TyTN II.

Joe confirmed HTC is aware of these problems and that R&D in Taiwan is looking into it. He told me to keep an eye on official HTC websites for a patch, although he could not tell me when the patch would eventually be released. I asked him if this was the confirmation of R&D actually writing a patch as we speak. First he plainly said 'yes', then apparently realised he wasn't authorised to do so, and said R&D is looking into this.

So to me, this means HTC knows about the issue and currently is doing something to fix the problem. It's too bad we don't have a timeframe, but hopefully we'll get one as word starts spreading quickly now through various tech related websites.

Thanks to all the Kaiser users supporting this initiative, it seems we're moving things in under a week time. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Well I hear more and more good news as of lately. We might crack this one just yet.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jeroenjohanzwarts@hotmail:
hi

like you i have the fastest ferrari that htc sell's

its a beauty

now i have only to wait until the weels arrive

with out those all the old cars are driving past you on the highway

see here a older pda out perfoming the powerbeast of htc

with simple text stuff

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7qbaDLzOU_Y
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] smuook:
In all fairness, this appears to be the PIE scrolling bug and not related the video driver issue of this thread. ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Strap*D-LB-Style:
Just got off the phone with HTC America

Yup same as rachidnl.

Spoke with this gal and she informed me of the same thing. Was not able to give me a hard date or time of the update but she does know that one is to come out soon. I doubt it will be here in a week do to the update being tested and certified process but atleast they are working on it. I"m not so pissed that HTC released the phone not ready yet as to they are at least fixing the problem. sheesh look at most electronics that are released to early. I also heard a rumor that the update was going to fix this problem anyway but wasn't on the top priority list of things for them to do untill all the internet pressure put the update on one of the priority lists. So Congrads and thanks to everyone for pushing this issue.

HTC --> still ownz
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] internetadam4657:
well before we start patting ourselves on the back for putting the pressure on HTC, we need to keep that pressure on until we get something becuase if we lighten up now, they will start slacking again.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doug2873:
agreed...htc should have never released this phone in the first place without having half-decent video drivers released...my assumption of whats going to happen is that they are going to half-ass the video drivers and leave it up to people in this forum to tweak them so they dont suck balls. Just my .02
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Pampered4Life:
ATT Office of the President

AT&T Wireless

Office of the President

PO Box 1180

Greeley, CO 80632
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] internetadam4657:
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...-angry-mobile-owners-rush-castle-htc-with-bu/

well we got the story picked up on engadget mobile! the main engadget site would have been nice but i'll settle for mobile.

anybody try submitting this to gizmodo yet? maybe even phone scoop? (even they do more official news as opposed to simply being a blog like giz or engadget)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
CNET ASIA informs his subscribers on HTC performace gap

you might be one of thousands whom received this fresh question in your mailbox this morning...

http://asia.cnet.com/members/newslet...tm?id=39247423
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] redsrule2500:
good idea maybe they can "re-review"
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hiimcliff:
digg these

http://digg.com/gadgets/HTC_based_phones_like_the_AT_T_Tilt_plagued_by_driver_issues

http://digg.com/gadgets/AT_T_Tilt_AKA_Kaiser_AKA_Tytn_II_iPhone_killer_laments

http://digg.com/hardware/HTC_Kaiser_TYTN_II_AT_T_Tilt_P4550_Video_driver_petition
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Bouloama:
How far is this project... Is there any progress made? TS?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BBM-Lee:
Link for non-members:

http://asia.cnet.com/members/newsletters/viewNewsletter.htm?id=39247423
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BBM-Lee:
I think Slashdot might be a good community to reach out to for putting pressure out there..

Just be sure to link good sources (known names), and hit all sides (consumers, businesses, press reports & attempts, htc's response)... as well as a source for owners/consumers to go to (htcclassaction)

While we want to put on pressure, we need to do it properly -- we need to cost HTC money. Why? They are a business, everything they say and do revolves around it. If a one-sided article is written and posted it will never hit the main page.. Perhaps a good catch line would be "They make your smartphones, but they dont make them smart" -- and reference the new deals with palm & the like
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
It is indeed quiet here for several assumed reasons;

1. Still it was expected that HTC would provide the solution (not much hope anymore if their "read this suckers" statement will be confirmed globaly)

2. the funds virtualy generated are not big enough

3. hell of a job to do - lot's of working hours. No one ready to become a HERO for thousands :p ?

4. presuming that most of us MAINLY complain about shaggy FPS, a third party solution (coreplayer 1.2 release feb 21) might be a cheaper alternative providing "flawless" video playback.

Just my two cents.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Bouloama:
Video drivers isn't for playing video files only. Its for the whole OS on the phone. It will fasten the response times and reaction speed of the kaiser.

there is 4000 dollar collected i saw from the other thread...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] htc-suck:
Look likes we are on our own again...

How is the chance of cooking ROM off future HTC devices shipped with hardware enabled video driver?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] KruseLudsMobile:
MSM7200 information

Sorry to sound naive, but... has anyone scoured through all this information yet?

http://www.qualcomm.com/iqsearch/index.html?iqname=MSM7200&x=26&y=7
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] redsrule2500:
So is the hardware even there??????? OR not? HTC made it sound like hardware wasn't even present for graphics....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] vlad69uk:
Has anybody read this yet?

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/01/22/htcs-official-response-to-drivergate-buzz-off/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jym04:
The hardware is there. There are much more statements (from them) that says that. Just take a look at www.htcclassaction.org . Also there are even press releases in their own site which makes the 3d support propaganda (see here http://www.htc.com/press_room/03-press-070905.htm). I'd say that if the hardware wasn't there they would big in a bigger trouble.

Also, take a look at http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/23/poll-how-did-htc-mishandle-the-video-driver-controversy/ and start voting. Engadget is listening to us.

edit: sorry, wrote driver instead of hardware.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Need a driver specialist who has the details of the problem, please help here:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=361787
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dizzy33:
That's the point ! HTC says they never advertised about the video capabilities of the TYTN II. But on their website, we can read the Qualcomm processors can do it, and the TYTN II has one. So legaly, the TYTN II should have these capabilities, they will lose if there is juridic (legal) actions against HTC.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] saajan:
Is this can help us????????

Guys

I just got an idea or suggestion or request….. Anyone can please look into the

O2 XDA Orbit II or O2 XDA Stellar clicks the link for specification please….

http://www.gsmarena.com/o2_xda_orbit_ii-2180.php

http://www.gsmarena.com/o2_xda_stellar-2179.php

I think I’m sure it is made my HTC for specific for O2 only…... And it has Qualcomm MSM7200, 400 Mhz processor.

So my question is……. If this phone has ATI video chip and it is comes with the video drivers or not. If yes can we dump the driver from there devices and can we use it with our HTC device…..

Please someone look into this…….

Thanks
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
The Orbit II is just a branded version of one of the Touches. Doesn't have the drivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] guest3:
Any news on driver development?

Hopefully the XDA community can better the iphone guys with their SDK.

Havent been able to find official word from HTC on their site regarding drivers, could somebody post a link.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mr4000:
Hey, I did not know that HTC actually *did* advertise with it.. at least this clearly states 3D support and at least hardware VGA video de/encode capabilities.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bader_meinhof:
quote: The MSM7500 for CDMA2000® 1xEV-DO Rev. A and MSM7200 for HSPA also feature rich multimedia capabilities – such as VGA video encode/decode, 8 megapixel camera, and 3D graphics

Hmmm 8MPixel camera? Is this document some sort of future roadmap or a spec for the Kaiser? Since there is only 3MP on the phone, maybe other parts of the pressreleas is for "possibilities" and not for "implementing"..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Straputsky:
I think that means that the chip is able to handle with cameras up to 8MP. So you don't need a dedicated chip for the camera (like an digic processor which Canon uses). So it's not a future roadmap or a spec for the Kaiser it's just what the Chip is capable of. If this is used or not is up to HTC (or other manufacturers).

That means the hardware is there, it's implemented. It's just not used to its fully cabability.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] diigibio:
My Call to HTC Europe

Well I've just got off the phone with HTC Europe and spoke to a guy called Tom. He was very helpful but not much the wiser.

He already knew about the official press release from HTC USA but he said they were still trying to find out if that was an accross the board answer or just for the USA. He did mention that HTC Taiwan was investigating the problem with video rendering, GUI rendering and other graphics problems such as the camera.

I mentioned what it states the device is capable of on one of their own press releases using the TYTN II as an example of a Hardware Accelerated phone and took a look at the press release himself and could not deny what was written. He did send me and e-mail reguarding the USA issue. Please read below. Regarding the WM 6.1 update from HTC, he said that Microsoft will be releasing WM6.1 in Q1 of 2008 with devices seeing it preloaded in Q2 of 2008 and said they would probably release an update for us once the first phones start to appear on the shelf.

Anyway here is the e-mail he forwarded:

Good afternoon,

?

Thank you for your?interest regarding the video and rendering issues reported with HTC devices that use the Qualcomm MSM7xxx chipsets.

?

HTC have released an official statement regarding this issue.

?

-------------------------

Public Reactive Statement From HTC - Jan. 22, 2008

In response to recent customer complaints about poor video performance on HTC devices based on the latest Qualcomm MSM7xxx chipsets, HTC is providing the following statement.

HTC is committed to delivering a portfolio of devices that offer a wide variety of communication, connectivity and entertainment functionality.? HTC does not offer dedicated or optimized multimedia devices and can confirm that its Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices do not use ATI's Imageon video acceleration hardware.

HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video. These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most smartphones and enable a variety of audio and video file formats.

HTC values its customers and the overall online community of mobile device enthusiasts and fans. HTC plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support.??

--------------------------

We have also asked for?more information?regarding the prospect of any updates?for the current devices using this architecture.? Until another statement is released by HTC regarding this matter, I am afraid that we cannot comment any further.

So is this a "yes" or a "No"? Sounds to me like damage control. Anyway, when is the Unbranded Iphone 3G model released??? LOL

Please help us HTC!! I don't want to go elsewhere but will if you keep pushing!!

I just wanna say a quick "Thanks" to all developers and community in general for all your help with this issue and others. And we do appriciate all your hardwork!!!

diigimatrix (diigibio)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dinfinity:
MSM7200 specs PDF

Just sharing this one. It shows that the MSM7200 chipset supports up to 8MP and states some numbers considering attainable FPS.

MSM7200_Chipset.pdf
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chopsui:
This is an old news release but it may be instructive in pointing out who we might really be directing our efforts at. It seems that Qualcom and MS have been working on porting WM to the MSM family for quite some time. It would seem to me that writing graphics drivers would be integral to that task. SOMEONE must have them. Either at MS or Qualcom or most likely both.

http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS8448072446.html
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] donatom3:
Chopsui, there are already devices out using this Qualcomm chipset with Windows Mobile that have the correct drivers. The LG KS20. The qualcomm reference drivers exist, but it's up to HTC to customize them for their devices.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] WizeMan:
What if we had a dumped rom of the LG??? Then could some genius from this forum do it?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] donatom3:
It's been tried. Chainfire spent alot of time trying and everytime he got everything linked his phone would freeze on startup.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chopsui:
I don't see why the drivers need to be customized for any particular phone. They should be generic DirectDraw drivers. The only possible customization I can see is maybe if they interface directly with a phone's LCD but I doubt that. Perhaps LG wrote their own drivers because the generic ATI drovers weren't ready yet? I don't know. It just seems to me that the video drivers don't interface with anything else on the phone so they should work with any installation of WMx on any platform that uses that chipset just like a PC video driver. There shouldn't be anything to customize.

Obviously there's something because the LG drivers don't work, but it would be nice to know what that is.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] donatom3:
Well if somehow we could get a hold of those Qualcomm reference drivers for the 7200 and 7500 chipsets we could be in business. Until then we're SOL.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Straputsky:
Maybe a hidden code: "Don't function with HTC devices" :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Actually I agree with him. I'm no driver expert, but from what I can tell from my software development experience - "ripping apart" a working device with drivers in it could be the trick to using/customizing those drivers to Kaiser/Touch/etc. I know, reverse engineering is a major PITA and sometimes practically impossible... but it's definitely worth a very close look.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] diigibio:
Online Statement Now hits www.htc.com

I was browsing through their meeting notes they publish online and discovered this link about a meeting they held on the 22nd Jan 08 in regards to our problem. They claim that their is no liability for a lawsuit and have put N/A under action they need to take. Looks like this is related to the USA statement release (But meeting seems to have taken place in Taiwan). So it looks like we are getting the finger!!

Anyway, here is the link for those interested:

http://www.htc.com/press_room/03-press-4-2008-0122.htm

Wow, looks like HTC lost all my further business. I'll have around £800 to spend on my next phone by August and HTC ain't seeing any of it!! So up your HTC!! HELLO APPLE!!

diigimatrix (diigibio)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
apple?? thats crazy talk! dont go making a fool out of yourself! lol. im just going to wait till Eten makes a device with all the current features + 128mb of RAM. Eten devices do work in the US right?

im going to stay with windows mobile, but not htc.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] diigibio:
mikeeey

Must of been piiss@d when I wrote that bit! Cough!! Might take a look at Eten's range. They might even enable the hardware to allow the recording of phone calls as i find that useful, now as my memory is not as it was. Miss that function. Thanks anyway for the tip. I also miss my first NEC analog brick, at least i knew i was getting exactly what i was paying for with no misleading media. Even though I had to get a wheelbarrow to cart it around. lol :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fakenick:
Well as i understood that statement ... they plan on releasing some devices with the drivers in the future. Is it it only me that sees the opportinity in ripping the drivers off these ?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] at10ti0n:
i believe that if they had proper hardware connectors to the ati imageon chip they would have added the video acceleration in first place. I believe that we miss some hardware thingy inside our tytns II. Too bad htc didn't provide any information if it is the case of software drivers or something related to hardware :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] macsbac:
I think many people will be upgrading long before this driver issue has been sorted. I wouldn't laugh at the iPhone, it performs much better than my Kaiser. The performance of the touch screen its terrible. What bright spark decided to put the speaker on the back of the phone so when I put it on the desk its muffled.

HTC have given us a mighty finger in regards to the driver issue and the best way for all of us to respond is to boycott them. Lets start a petition where people can make a committment to not buying another HTC device. This si the only way we can make this fat cat companies stand up and listen to the low consumer.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] EeekiE:
My first and last HTC device it seems. It's entirely useless for effectively and smoothly browsing any complicated admin web application, and it's even worse to the point of epileptic seizure for navigating a complicated excel spreadsheet. That's even before you get to any multimedia capabilities. It's like a 7L V8 Sports car with one wheel. A wasted opportunity, and a shameless cop-out by HTC. They're not worth any more of my money.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
Hello I'm from Greece and I'm trying to support our cause!

I'm not a lawyer, but I think it's against the law to sell a downgraded product with the same name! I mean it's ok to sell a cut version of msm7200 but you must change its name; say msm7200 se (special edition) just like ati and nvidia do! When HTC says msm7200, we expect msm7200 and not half of it! Imageon is an internal part of the chipset. How can this chipset operate without it? Is this 400Mhz processor capable to operate alone? I highly suspect that if what htc says it's true we bought a crippled device, that is outperformed even by TI OMAP in real situations (not benchmarks)! But what makes me be most terrified is that qualcomm doesn't provide us the technical details of the htc version of msm7200! Have you ever seen a device with classified technical data before? If no this is HTC's and Qualcomm's unique accomplishment. So boycott them! Create a site dedicated to boycott both of them, because they are both responsible for false advertisent and bad information!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] zaharakis:
please delete it
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] WizeMan:
You keep posting same things on forums...

Why must we be obligated to further set-up a device of 800euros (1100+ usd) in order to get the performance of a device that is 2-3 years old and of course much cheaper now? Not all ppl are power users, man.

And finally if a driver/solution comes out (which is unlikely), you can never use it and stay with you "well set-up" Kaiser...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] FloatingFatMan:
If you're so all fire sure that it's nothing but a configuration problem, then please, enlighten up as to how to configure our Kaisers to eliminate all of the performance problems, as you apparently have managed to do.

Put up, or shut up.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] zaharakis:
very kind...:(:(

keep ""floating""
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] FloatingFatMan:
I shall. And you keep waffling, which is all you're doing until you prove your claims.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Infornography:
now ladies, this isn't the time nor the place to quarrel.

Our quarrel isn't with each other, but with HTC. Keep that in mind. :cool:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] FloatingFatMan:
Except that zaharakis seems to claim there's nothing wrong with the phones, and that it's everyone else's inability the configure it that's causing the performance problems... I'm just calling him out on that.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] WizeMan:
Of course not! :o

Well thats kinda personal :D, I am talking for myself. My dissent is in your post (what exactly I wrote on my last one). That it is ridiculous for a 800eu device to need "Pro tuning and cooked roms" in order to have the graphics performance of a 3-years old device, which you can find for 200eu right now (for example a Wizard).

In this part I totally agree with you. The overall performance cannot be compared with an OMAP device. Not only about the cpu, but also the doubled memory is a great improvement comparing to the old ones. From a general point of view the Kaiser is the best device we could get right now.

But probably the man is pissed from the Video performance. Aren't you? Come on, just for a sec try to think as a simple user. I am also a power user like you, I am using a personal Cooked ROM which has decent video playback, but I am still pissed just to know that such an expensive device is a "brick" when it comes to GRAPHICS performance, in all its aspects (video playback, 2D, 3D, also scrolling and the WM UI is laggy sometimes)

We can easily argue everywhere ;) its not quarrel or flaming, its just argument. We get into points by arguing not by agreeing ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fusi:
these ppl who are claiming its fine are tripping. or employed by htc. lies lies and htc spies.