yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
Guys I am just trying to inform Kaiser users in Greece about these threads and www.htcclassaction.org! Is that bad? I've just created a thread with some kaiser issues and that's all! I don't have the time to create negative advertisement for HTC by mass posting! Hell no! I have a life to live! I'm just a simple user! Is it bad to complain using only the www.htc.com.gr forum? I've never written in another greek forum about this issues before. And this is just the second time I write here! But obviously for Zaharakis I' m just a lunatic who posts all day against HTC! Wow I didn't realize that... I'm soooo sorry!!!

Nevertheless I hope that what I said before can help to support a realistic lawsuit against HTC if necessary! It's just so simple! If you want a cut version of a chipset you should give it another brand name (msm 7200 se for example). If you don't do it, you cheat your customers! Why ATI and NVIDIA always follow this rule and Qualcomm and HTC are not obliged to do the same? Has Qualcomm the right to keep technical data regarding HTC's msm7200 classified? Please somebody give me an answer.

I'm willing to pay 20 euros for a lawsuit and only if this is necessary! I don't want to harm HTC in any way especially if they give us the truth about these issues!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Straputsky:
It sounds logical to me, BUT nVidia for example used the name "8800 GTS" for three versions (2xG80 and 1xG92). So it might be possible that there is no law to rename a product.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
Ok then they're cheating us by using the letter of the law!

P.S. What I say about kaiser vs QTEC S200 is completely true! S200 outperforms Kaiser when playing skyforce!!! Believe it! Especially if you try to play using touchscreen on kaiser, the game becomes almost unplayable. On the contrary S200's performance is reduced under the same conditions, but you still can play the game with more fps. That means skyforce is playable on S200 while it's not on kaiser!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cornellfOo:
This was posted in the petition thread by drownage but didn't get a response:

Does this provide anything for us? I'm guessing not, but it's worth an ask :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Strap*D-LB-Style:
Interesting.

Interesting. But I still don't get a warm fuzzy feeling yet :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] zaharakis:
i think that you didn't read my post...

""

how serious could be someone who compares kaiser's speed and stability with any other(spesially with an OMAP ???)device?""

that is my argument and not that you said....

""If you're so all fire sure that it's nothing but a configuration problem, then please, enlighten up as to how to configure our Kaisers to eliminate all of the performance problems, as you apparently have managed to do.""

i didn't say that there isn't any problem in kaiser ......mr wise guy....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] FloatingFatMan:
You misquoted yourself. Your ACTUAL quote was:

Insinuating that our phones aren't setup right, and leading me to believe that yours apparently is.

So tell us, how exactly do we setup the phones? WITHOUT doing anything that would void the warranty, such as flashing a 3rd party ROM to it, or installing 3rd party software.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] zaharakis:
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

wait..i'm working on it :cool:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] thegrinchd:
Thoughts to Purchase a Kaiser for Driver Development

I don't know if this idea has any traction still, but if it does I am interested in contributing $20 or so.

I can also get a AT&T Tilt device @ corporate cost (brother works att corporate)

The cost he gave me was around $300 US for the handset. I think that would be locked but for fiddling it would be fine to work out on I would suspect.

If you folks are interested contact me at my username @gmail.com

Cheers!

I have an SX66 and was thinking seriously of the Kaiser as the next phone as it seems a step up which most of the recent phones have not been hardware-wise.

Gil
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] scullness:
get a refurb

if your brother has corporate access to the AT&T store (Premier online) he should be able to get a refurb tilt for $149.99.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tha_bulldog:
I might be VERY, VERY wrong on this case, but...

I have a HTC Wizard, a HTC TyTN and a HTC TyTN II (Vodafone V1615)

On the HTC TyTN (my old phone), when I was watching Top Gear on it, using TCPMP 0.81, I always selected ATI Imageon as video codec. Always did and it worked flawlessly!

I might be very stupid, but isn't there a way to use the driver of the HTC TyTN or isn't this possible due to the use of another Imageon chipset or something else?

I'm NOT a professional in these things, but I just thought it COULD be an idea...

If you think it should not be possible to use the imageon driver on the TyTN 1, I am willing to make a video of it if needed! Just want to do what I can to help all of you out there :)

BTW, I'm using the OEM HTC ROM Windows Mobile 6 NL.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] redsrule2500:
WOW!! I'm gonna try to return my new TILT for a refurb!!! I wanted to return it cuz its not worth 399...but 150 yes!

What do you think my chances are? :confused:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Bankside:
Why such a big deal for HTC?

One of the things that strikes me about this whole issue, is that the driver itself is a small peice of software. Now, a programme is not written overnight but would HTC have to invest large and expensive resources into issuing a driver? Surely a firm of this size could produce the driver with relative ease or is this a much bigger deal than I'm realising? But if the good members of XDA Developers think they could produce one assuming they had a device from which to work, then I fail to see why HTC could not write one without too much difficulty.

I have been a heavy PPC user for many years and had loads of different makes from the early devices up to my current TyTN II. And as lovely a machine as it is, as far as video response is concerned it is a basket case. So, the issue is real Mr HTC. I am not a techy just a plain old user. So HTC thinks the only danger is losing business from the minority tech head users (who by the way are often responsible for encouraging non techys to use such devices and thereby are an asset to PPC manufacturers), think again. This is noticed by standard consumers across the board. I wonder how many phone provider badged devices have been returned to those providers and, similarly, are those phone providers happy with HTC? All major corporations need to consider reputational risk. Perhaps HTC will relaise that this matter is such a risk for consideration.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Boinng:
Big deal

I think it's a big deal because it's messing with HTC's longer term strategy with this chipset/platform. It's obvious (to me) that they only intended to use the graphics portions of these chips to power the VGA screens of their next generation devices, and have planned/priced the current round of models on the assumption that they wouldn't need to license the drivers this time around. Unfortunately the performance hit on this first generation hasn't been disguised well enough, and they've been caught out - but to backtrack now and license the drivers would leave a big hole in some financial projection somewhere, not to mention impacting on future sales.

The message HTC need to understand is that their existing strategy is now in tatters anyway, after so much bad press and loss of faith in the user community - as things stand, the sales they're assuming for their later VGA devices are taking a substantial hit. They need to realise that now is the time for damage limitation - if they're seen to "do the right thing" and bring their QVGA range up to par, then the resulting pay-out will at least be offset by some brownie points and customer loyalty.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] FloatingFatMan:
Precisely. They need to understand that, right now, they've lost a LOT of future customers. If they make good with the current devices, then I'll stick with them for future ones; but if they don't, then someone else will be getting my money next time around.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Bankside:
QVGA

And that is another issue. A high end device like the TyTN II should have had a VGA screen in the first place, but I knew that when I bought it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tranaee:
Yes, that's the best ever describing post on this techy thread. You are giving the right perspective in just a few words..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] thegrinchd:
I'll check on the refurb. but in any case, the offer stands.

He is on vacation for the rest of the week.

I'll post something here when he returns
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] redsrule2500:
Sweet, i just called to replace my new 399.99 tilt with a 149.99 tilt refurb.

thanks for the post!! I was about to settle for a blackjack!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] scullness:
glad i could help. with positive progress on the driver issue I'll invest in a refurb as well, but no way is HTC getting ~$400 out of me.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
If my English was as good, i would written this myself as I full y agree.

We, trendsetters and early adaptors are the voice of this manufacturer.

We are the ones who can pay 700 Euro or 1000 US for free of contract versions, and we expect value for money. HC should now choose either to satisfy their franchise, or to play poker "hoping" next generation buyers will not have picked up the stories about their current devices.

Coming back to an earlier post, can we indeed not look into the Tytn I infrastructure and why those drivers were simply performing better on a lesser high performance CPU? This despite the chipset used, or are we talking about realy significant changes for which the TytnI is even not usable ?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tranaee:
I see a link between Coreplayer's sudden announcement for the end of Feb and HTC's mid Jan press release.

I mean HTC would never wanted to make Betaboy or any xda-dev a hero.

HTC came out with the press release buying time while contacting Coreplayer "asking" them (by any means) to back up for a month, trading the h/w drivers at the end maybe.

That's why maybe Betaboy's posts were so confusing. Coreplayer had it's software ready, why to go back for almost two months while a huge crowd of potential buyers - pissed HTC customers, us - were ready to purchase the software?

Too many maybes, I'm not speculating more, maybe it's just science fiction everything I said, but when it comes to thousands of customers and million of dollars nothing is spontaneous or just innocently happening.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] MAK11:
uh? what ? CorePlayer 1.1.3 is out since last week:rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tranaee:
1.2 I'm talking about..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] MAK11:
No need to wait for 1.2

1.1.3 is the Qtv enabled version in case you missed it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tranaee:
Well I'm afraid that's just a prerelease adding qtv support.. "640x480 is a lofty goal sadly" as one user says.. http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=362236&page=19

Far away of what promised. End of Feb. I bet 1.2 CP will come along with the updated rom including the drivers.. (optimistic bet.. positive energy.. that's what left to spread after the thousands of emails at the HTC HQs.)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] donatom3:
Coreplayer 1.2 was NEVER going to include drivers. It was going to make use of the QTV.dll. Which coreplayer 1.1.3 was rushed out so the kaiser users could get use of the QTV.dll update of 1.2 early. So coreplayer has what they were talking about out EARLIER than they announced it would be out. 1.2 will now just add streaming video support and other things but QTV.dll support is out NOW.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Straputsky:
Yes, that's what I thought too. I believed that they did a prerelease to do us a favour.

What I wondered: The MSM7200 is a dual core chip. Is it possible to use both cores vor decoding (maybe one for video and one for audio)? Or has this already be done?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] storino03:
The Qtv video setting on Core Player doesn't play movies correctly on my HTC Touch (Sprint).

--James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tranaee:
You are right.. Sorry for saying bull**** before but CP1.1.3 is a let down for the most of the people anyway.. Promise never fulfilled really..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] donatom3:
I know you're saying most people, but from what I've been reading most people actually see the improvement. Not just just subjectively but benchmarks are showing it. I agree it's still not to the point we want it to be but it shows the hardware is definitely there. I have a vogue so the QTV fix in 1.1.3 doesn't work for me. Beta_Boy is thinking the API has to be modified for other models. There definitely is an improvement using 1.1.3 for me even just using GDI.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] storino03:
Any updates on the development of the drivers?

--James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Michaelr219:
I cant wait!

If htc doesnt take action soon... I hope one of the many members that comes to this website will be able to help with this problem. I know this is no simple task... but maybe the money thats been raised can be given to the developer who can fix our phones. Im sure this has been said before... so dont flame...

I just want to be able to play PLAYSTATION on my phone with a faster FPS!!! I mean, my 8525 played fpsece faster than my tilt. Not only that, but wisbar advance desktop as slow as heck on this phone. Its quite aggrevating... ok. done venting. We're all pissed...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chaugi:
HTC Kaiser performance is not worse but same

One of the most popular russian resource www.mobile-review.com has published an article which says that there is no much difference in performance between Kaiser and other PDA devices.

Translated by Google from Russian to English

Original review in Russian

Please see video clips.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Well.. this is the best and most thorough review of the problem that I've seen. Although I do have an advantage of being able to read russian as native language..

Author definitely makes some points that cannot be ignored. It is normal for hardware setups to have "good" areas and "bad" areas, like the conflict between latest nVidia and ATI cards. It seems that the only area still left unexplored fully is the 3D rendering.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
Okay. I went throught it.

My points:

Where is the touchscreen issue? Scrolling in IE is acceptable if you are using hardware keys instead of scrollbars. The same with TomTom - try to adjust volume while navigating and you will see the HUGE difference.

What about video playback? I don't see videos anywhere showing video playback of the TyTN II.

What about camera?

They simply picked things on which the TyTN II is only slightly sub-par and made videos of it. And now they are saying we are all wrong. I would post a comment there if I could read/write in russian.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Straputsky:
I just thought the same when I read the article. Where are the tests of video playback? But then I read the article on htcclassaction.org again and now I understand. There they also use a comparison with tomtom to show the underperformance of the HTC Kaiser. So maybe someone who can write russia should contact mobile-review.com and ask them to repeat the test with focus on the issues mentioned above.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
well i'm not denying that there is a problem. But lets not blame it all on drivers. We already know that camera problem is not related to the drivers. its a shutter speed/low light compensation.

Videos are fixed with new coreplayer qtv.

Ive just made a new tomtom video - and its smooth as baby's butt (theres a thread somewhere).

Perhaps touchscreen is software issue as well, perhaps it can be fixed like IE scroll bug.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Macgyvec3:
Are you crazy?

You may be right about the camera but first of all, videos are not "fixed" by Coreplayer. They play better but not perfect. Try using bluetooth headphones to listen to the videos and you'll really see poor performance. Second, the 3d rendering is absolutely horrible. You can't tell me you've never seen it. Third, the everyday use of the damn thing is slow and sluggish. Those MAJOR things all come from the lack of drivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Why not? They use the QTV APIs for acceleration which results in a much better rendering. Sounds like a fix for me.

Perhaps, but honestly, not that many people do it, and if we dig in it, we might find a way to fix bluetooth lags. I personally, don't even use bluetooth - the whole technology is pissing me off, it's extremely unreliable, unsecure, low distance and relatively very slow bandwidth.

Yes, I did see some of it - although I never expected my Kaiser to be a gaming platform like PSP (I'd just buy PSP then), it is a problem that I'd LOVE just like anyone else to see fixed.

I have to disagree, my Kaiser is screming through everyday tasks like creating appointments, tasks, browsing the web (big news websites).. I see no problems when I browse folders or icon lists. Windows directory - yeah, scrolling is kinda jerky, but hey - there's like a gazzilion items in it.

I really doubt that they all come from that. Perhaps having proper drivers will improve GDI drawing even more - great, but I wouldn't call current drawing a problem. If there's a lawsuit with HTC - I will call it a DISASTER, sure lol.

3D rendering - just something we have to find/get a fix for. Just don't bash everything that makes Kaiser - it's still an amazing PPC that I love.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Macgyvec3:
I love it too.

I agree at least that I love my Kaiser and that BT technology is kind of on the crappy side. However, I do believe it's lacking in performance from what it should be. I went from an iPAQ 6515(312mhz cpu) to this phone and the "everyday" use on the 6515 was better than this. Just opening menus or switching from landscape to portrait are very annoying. Overall I still get great use out of it but at the cost of inconvenience and frustration. When I need it to be instant like my 6515 was(for the most part), the Kaiser doesn't deliver. I bought it expecting it to preform much better.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nojnaworb:
Have you tried custom ROM's or at least hard reset the Tilt and stop the bloatware from loading? I'm currently using one of _Alex's_ ROM's and the Tilt is very snappy now. I am much happier with it.:) Actually, I'm going to donate next payday.:o
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jim_R:
I also migrated to the TILT from the 6515 and I would never go back. I find the TILT at least as responsive, and am able to load up far more applications at once than the 6515 ever could, and I sure don't miss WM2003SE. I have all the bloatware on my TILT, and a fully loaded Today screen too. Don't even get me started with the square screen software compatibility issues the 6515 had. Something must be wrong with your TILT if it appears slower than the 6515. I second the notion of performing a hard reset, and reloading your applications (with or without the bloatware). You might also try moving up to the ROM version listed in my sig, there's newer out now, but this one has a good radio, faster transition when going to landscape, and has the PIE scrolling fix inherent.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Michaelr219:
some of you... arent hearing US correctly

it isnt soo much that the Tilt/Kaiser is a bad phone... It is my favorite phone out of ANT of my previous phones. I think the misconception that ppl are relating to this issue would be referred over to memory. Yes, from that aspect compared to saayyyy a Hermes, yes, wayyy better. However, its not soo much the overall performance that is missing, but more on how the phone communicates to the screen. IE... the camera (which improved slightly) the video playback (which is decent now if you BUY coreplayer) and most of all scaling (games, especially touch responsive games)

I think the thing some ppl arent realizing is that, we DO have awesome phones... they are just crippled in this one crucial area. For example, I play playstation one on my Hermes and can get an average of 24fps which is decent... on the kaiser, its about 11 fps at best... which makes the game unplayable... to me, thats like my little brother bench pressing more than I can. I mean sure, I look bigger and stronger, so shouldnt I lift more? The tytn II shouldnt be less "touch" responsive when it comes to screen rendering. I mean, this chip has TWO processors and they are performing slower in CERTAIN aspects than phones with one... I am no tech when it comes to the specs and technical terms and what not, but I know this phone can be much faster than what we've seen thus far... which is why most of us come to this site religously...

I give major props to the ppl/cooks on this site who build roms for the kaiser, making it a little more bearable... but if you think your tilt is fast now... just wait till you see what the phone is truely capable of when we find our missing links...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
Contacted HTC once before without a reply.

Contacted them again and indicated that I might have to return my Tilt.

Also contacted AT&T.

I bought an AT&T Tilt as an office/multimedia PDA. Recently, I discovered that video playback and graphics performance in general is smoother on older devices than my AT&T Tilt. Even normal Operating System functions (e.g. scrolling, turning the screen, opening programs, opening emails, ...) are faster on my old HP iPAQ hw6515.

This is quite a disappointment from a phone that cost $400. Is AT&T/HTC aware of my problem, and is anything being done to fix it? Missing drivers appear to be the cause of the issue. This also has been confirmed by www.htcclassaction.org.

I am very concerned as the device does not deliver what was advertised and am considering returning it due to the false advertising for it!

I look forward to a positive reply from you that this issue is being worked on and a fix will be available soon.

Please feel free to copy the above text and email it to HTC or your carrier.

We need to put as much pressure as possible on these f#$@#$ers
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nojnaworb:
Actually, if you find TCPMP, the predecessor to coreplayer, you can get pretty good video playback. I've been downloading Youtube videos and showing them at work with great results.

I agree, of course, with the community that the video needs to be fixed. I guess that I didn't expect that much. My previous device was a Dell X50v and I didn't use it for video at all and played only a few non-graphics intensive games. I loved the VGA screen for reading books. If you say that the Hermes did better than the Tilt, I believe you.

I have noticed that on occasion, the screen reacts very slowly and for no apparent reason and it was utterly terrible with the ATT ROM. Therefore, I love this Site!! I can break free of the mold that they try to force me into! I am finding all kinds of solutions to my PDA woes!!:D:D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Michaelr219:
aha! the x50v is a GREAT example. those phones can be overclocked and already have the performance to scale games at very high fps. but yes, im kind of glad that the tilt is missing some stuff, because it has kept me coming back to this site hope and waiting for something new to play with. it seems like everyday there is something new that was developed. the tilt will get better, we just have to be patient i guess :(