yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hidavi:
Not nececssarily true. Its possible that the licensing terms that ATi has with HTC only includes the drivers' use with a certain number of models. They might have to pay more to put it on one more model. You know, the same way that with Windows, you're only allowed to install on one PC and not all of the ones that you own.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] storino03:
heh, no drivers in March...

--James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Isaygarcia:
Anyone has the 6500?..

We cant say "NO" if we dont try it first.

lol... in this world all is possible.

so, if anyone has the 6500 please try to extract the drivers.

-Isay.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChocoIncognito:
Your zeal on this topic is working against you. The easiest way for me to sum up my impression of the Kaiser is to show you this very well thought-out post from DarkDvr:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=2061369&postcount=888

This would be more akin to buying a sweet ride, but having the radio/CD Player jacked before you could do anything with it. The car itself is fine, but your extra entertainment features become limited. Too bad that radio has proprietary connectors (or something like that. Silly analogies).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dperren:
If it was just the extra entertainment features, I wouldn't be so bothered. But the fact a £400 phone does not a smooth and fluid GUI is absurd - especially considering that substantially cheaper devices did a better job 4-5 years ago! I don't want the screen running two seconds behind the keyboard, I do want to be able to scroll through the list of text messages (or emails, or applications, or webpages...) on my phone smoothly! This phone clearly and unarguably has issues with the performance both of the touchscreen and GUI, and that is why most of the sensible and reasoned people are apoplectic about this whole issue, not because 'cnt play gamez lols'.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BBM-Lee:
Funny... I have both the Tilt and the Wing..

The Wing is my gamer PDA ;-) runs games much, MUCH faster... in fact, I find most 'flash' style games unplayable on the Tilt
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sswalia:
I'm still a little confused about all of this. I just spent about 3 hours reading up on all of htc's bs. I have also been tracking Xperia to try to figure out if those drivers for their 7200A chipset would be rippable to uncripple the kaiser.

As a recap, this is what i've learned:

HTC told us to go blow ourselfs, they wont be any help without a judge forcing them to do something.

Xperia is pretty much worthless to the kaiser community because of the different chipset- this is the next phone to be released from htc. (sidenote is that xperia would be mad sweet with android ported onto its 7200A chipset)

So that leaves us with only one hope left- build the drivers ourselves. Please correct me if i am wrong, but the problem with this is that 1) It is extremely time intensive? 2) In depth knowledge of the actual specs of the 7200 qualcom dual processors are not known? and 3) there are very few qualified individuals who could actually achieve this task.

...................

Ok. So that brings me to my question.

Is their anyone at xda actually working to make this driver? Is anyone here qualified to write this type of code? Is it possible to write the code for the driver with the knowledge that we have currently?

I read some where that chainfire was working on this? Is there anyone else left? or is this project dead in the water?

Thanks in advance for helping me clear up this confusion.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] MDA-Fan:
Anyway.....

It´s true that the Kaiser has many fantastic features, but it is very slow! That´s a fact!

http://www.htc.com/us/product.aspx?id=20846

The first sentence is a joke and should be removed! (Or at least the first part)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bfrye26:
From all i have read and i even dubble checked the Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1 uses the 7200 not the 7200A. I could be wrong but all the specs sheets i pulled up said 7200 running at 512mhz
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rev3nant:
AFAIK, the only difference between 7200 and 7200A is manufacturing process. So the interface (and drivers) should be the same or pretty similar.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sswalia:
alright awesome, so that is some hope...

I've also looked around a bit more for devices proposed or currently running the 7200 chipset and it looks like the just released HTC Sirius (P6500) is running our chipset base with a "qualcom7200 graphics controller"

Does anyone have any info regarding the graphical capabilities of this phone? Could our missing drivers be hidden in this overpriced beast? If anyone has any handson or graphics data for this phone please shoot me a link...

So it sounds like we have 2 more options in our playbook.... pray for graphics drivers in either the xperia or the sirius, or make them ourselves (still wondering if people are actually building these homebrew drivers?)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bfrye26:
Hey, ya this concept has already been looked at, see bellow link :

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=359991&page=33

And it looks like the new phone from HTC does have better proformance with the same core sooooooo there may be drivers there, or at least it is a lead
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kcmusic:
Thats not true, the devices are very similar however the interrupt controller registers (among other things) have moved around in the 7200A. As you can imagine this could create a number of potential challenges especially when dealing with closed code so to speak.

-Kelle
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rev3nant:
Hm, didn't know that. Thanks for the correction.

Still chances are (albeit very slim) drivers might have a unified architecture and work on both platforms without changes. :rolleyes:

Sometimes dreams come true :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
Pha! The end of March is pretty much here and still no drivers!

FVCK HTC!

I have started posting about the issues and warning people about HTC wherever I can.

Engadget just posted something about the HTC Shi(f)t which will release in the US soon ... so I encourage everybody to comment on stories wherever they can.

It's time this issue was picked up by the news again.

We might even be able to spin the news that the HTC **** doesn't sell well because people are weary of HTC. ;-)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Straputsky:
March isn't over yet, so I think we'll wait till these few days are gone. Then it's time to get angry. ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neva dinova:
what about the htc sedna cant something be gained from it?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] SCSweeps:
I would like to know this as well.

It's pretty OBVIOUS that is contains the video drivers. It's 10x faster than the Touch Cruise.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sswalia:
the htc sedna (6550) is scheduled to be released in may 2008, that gives us a good month to twiddle our thumbs and pray. I agree though, those benchmark tests look pretty promising, does anybody actually know what ddb bitblt graphics test means?

It seems like people over in the polaris section are gettin pretty excited bout this one too. :)

Just to clarify, the htc 6500 is the siruis, and it runs on a samsung 400mhz processer; this phone was released in november of 07

the htc 6550 is the sedna, and it runs on the qualcom 7200; this phone has not been released yet

I dont know why, but all over the web, these two phones have been mixed up quite a bit; The reason why this might be important is because the graphics data above says p6500 sedna------ which doesnt exist----- so i was trying to confirm if the phone in the graphics test is currently available or not? Can anyone shed light on this for me?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Did you try googling bitblt? It's a very old term that dates back to the sprite days. Oh those were good days when the only blitter I got to use was push #0 on the 65816.

Basically, hardware-accelerated copying of surfaces which is good for 2d, 3d, and video. DDB is device-dependent bitmap.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] foolsgold:
I've recently got Coreplayer 1.2.1 for my Kaiser. And it plays videos (divX, MP4, etc) very smoothly. :D

Benchmarking at 95-98% for full-sized video. Unbelievably good, in comparison to software windows player that does 20%. :eek:

I read someplace that it uses propriety code hooks for the Kaiser's Imageon hardware.

Is this not a good place to start building a proper video driver set? :rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rev3nant:
It uses QTv video decoder (if you've enabled it in settings). It is a different piece of hardware. It has nothing to do with Imageon, AFAIK.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jasperrr:
They probably don't release them this weekend and Monday is already kinda too late seeing that Monday IS the end of March and they clearly said

before

the end of march. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Insaneboy:
We'll all be surprised when on the 31st of march at 23:59 they release an update, named "proper video drivers", of course everyone will be thrilled but then when we click on them a big "April's fool!" will come up, followed by a maniacal laugh and the HTC logo.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Menneisyys:
yup, it's one of the VERY few 2.8" devices using the Xscale CPU - as opposed to the Samsungs / TI's / Qualcomms used in all the others. They may have got the Xscale driver support OK for the same (if it's the same - I suppos so) screen, while ****ing up the Samsung / TI / Qualcomm support.

BTW, this should be another bounty, don't you think so? A GENERIC bounty because it'd help ALL 2.8" users (Trinity, Wizard, TyTN I etc.), not "just" ones with Kaiser? What do you all think?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Menneisyys:
still speaking of the 6700, is the touchscreen driver fully Xscale-only? is it possible to hack it on any non-Xscale 2.8" HTC phone?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
my Tytn I plays the same files without any loss of fps, so it is not 2.8" related. i would rather say, all PDA's running this Qualcomm CPU with shared GPS onboard (and I am still convinced the GPS shared on the same CPu might be a (part of the) cause of the lagging video performance
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Heh, seems I misunderstood the earlier post. You're talking about the 6700 touchscreen driver while I am talking about the 6700 video driver. My bad.

No clue about your question.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
Anyone has the new HTC Polaris (Touch Cruise) ?

If yes, how is the video performance? maybe it is better there ... ?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] eskostar:
Exact same problem as on the Kaiser from what people are reporting
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
well, at least one posted is claiming the Cruise works fine with the latest version of TCPMP...

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=356506

I think this may be a troll, but perhpas (s)he has stumbled across something everyone else has missed.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ^w^ing:
video playback is fine (for me) with any version of tcpmp, if I just set video driver other than directdraw (like gapi), then the video is pretty smooth... At least i can watch video now -.- ... I doubt it can handle vga-res video any better tho.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DomZ:
that could be great if you can do something for the KS20 community too :) (LG KS20 original rom has some bugs)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
what?

when u play games and touch the screen it doesnt drop in framerate? impossible, this guy is playing quake on his TyTN and u can clearly see it drops in framerate when touched:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vn6DAq5q6M

people have suggested TouchFLO slows it down, how do i completely disable touchFLO to test this out?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
You don't need to bother. Disabling TouchFLO was the first thing I did when I discovered touchscreen problem. I am not sure if it even helped.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Just out of interest, if there is a task manager out there that shows per-sub-process CPU utilization, maybe we can identify what eats the CPU at the moment you touch the screen? It's a long shot, but may provide more info.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
yea acbTaskMan. i posted a screenshot somewhere here on hte forum, ill find it.

here it is:

the line that jumps to 100 is not when i pressed the screen, so ignore that, but the line jumping to +75 is when i touched the screen, i then left it pressed for aproxomatly 30 seconds, then let go.

thanks for testing it out, too bad that didnt slove the problem tho. however if it was the problem id sure hate to sacrifice touchFlo just to get the screen to work right.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ^w^ing:
so which process was eating those 75% of CPU while you were touching the screen?

EDIT: nvm, i checked it and the process was 'gwes.exe' ... doh.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
im not sure, is gwes.exe the app the touchscreen uses to work?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fgrump123:
gwes.exe is part of the GUI windowing.

I found this tread on it:

http://discussion.treocentral.com/archive/index.php/t-103462.html
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jym04:
Well, are there any chances that we can get the whole gwes system from another phone and make them work on our Kaisers? That would be nice, since you can feel the load of touching your screen even if you're doing basic things, such as using Opera Mini.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
or even changing the volume in tcpmp or WMP while watching a movie..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
The gwes.exe sluggard is most likely behind the long running touch screen problem Menneisyys has been trying to bring HTC to regard for ages (followed his stalwart efforts on that myself) but combining this with with video driver issues gives us the Tortoise of the TyTYnII !

If you look deep into all different manufacturers work arounds for this, LG's wrap's and such... It shows, deep down, a failing by many people.

1. MS, with poor market research in keeping WM up to date with hardware advances, Qualcomm chipset driver calls for media player aspects and many much required updates to WM such as simple PRINTING!!

2. Qualcomm, not releasing full information for third party SW programmers for their chipset.

3. HTC, not implementing their own wraps to provide a player that does not look worse than the old TyTyn!!!

OK, you may hope that they are all waiting for it to come together...BUT, that is no excuse for releasing a device that is a downgrade in media performance on it's predecessor so that you can have a tilting keyboard and GPS!!! :(

I like this unit, it does what I want it to, BUT, it should do it a LOT better than my old unit.

If HTC and AT&T had ANY real marketing skills.. they would each provide FREE OF CHARGE, 2 units of TyTynII and Tilt to XDA Developers for developement work that would provide them with, if not only, a working solution to this problem for minimal costs but also HUGE repect within this community and that would be worth Millions alone in PR...:confused: :confused: :confused:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
I must honestly say I haven't noticed this touchscreen lag... can someone suggest something I can do that makes it really really obvious?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChocoIncognito:
I already attempted to ask HTC directly about this. I work in email support myself, and I have to say, at least I'm helpful :| It took them over to days to respond. My question and their answer below:

"I'm curious as to when the promised software optimization update for the HTC TyTN II is going to be released. According to previous reports, this update should be coming near the end of March. As the end of March approaches with no update in sight, the community is wanting to know when this update will be released. In short, please respond with when this optimization update is supposed to be released."

HTC Support:

Thank you for your inquiry

First and foremost let me thank you for your interest in our line of devices. Unfortunately at the present time we do not actually have any sort of exact release date for this device. What I would recommend is signing up as an eClub member on www.htc.com, and once this download is available you would be notified via emails.

Just to let you know for more information on your device you can always check www.htcwiki.com.

I hope we have answered your question in detail. Feel free to contact us again if you have any further questions.

I know fluff is important when typing up a response. I also know that a lot of my co-workers don't put much effort into their replies. This response reminds me of them. Sigh.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] SouthernLuke:
How vague could they possibly get? You might as well have been asking for the release of TyTN III. lol. I imagine the response would have been the same.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joopvdl:
good idea, let's start asking about tytn 3. if anything, it'll be fun.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] MobilePhoneUser:
This isn't even a response to your question. It's a canned response as to when a new device will be out. It's so infuriating when support people don't even read your inquiry enough to understand what your asking.

You should be given a raise and your co-workers should be fired.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Peran:
I did the same some time ago..

The RE I got from HTC:

Thank you for your email regarding the video and rendering issues reported with HTC devices that use the Qualcomm MSM7xxx chipsets.

?

HTC have released an official statement regarding this issue.

?

-------------------------

Public Reactive Statement From HTC - Jan. 22, 2008

In response to recent customer complaints about poor video performance on HTC devices based on the latest Qualcomm MSM7xxx chipsets, HTC is providing the following statement.

HTC is committed to delivering a portfolio of devices that offer a wide variety of communication, connectivity and entertainment functionality.? HTC does not offer dedicated or optimized multimedia devices and can confirm that its Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices do not use ATI's Imageon video acceleration hardware.

HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video. These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most smartphones and enable a variety of audio and video file formats.

HTC values its customers and the overall online community of mobile device enthusiasts and fans. HTC plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support.??
​

[/INDENT][/INDENT]
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rev3nant:
And I'm Madonna. :rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pazookie:
i was just wondering if anyone had footage of a device with similar 3d acceleration and /or hardware to demonstrate what the kaiser would have been capable of or ifsomeone could explain the capabilities (would it have a fluid interface like the iphone or anything else that it could do besides smoother standard video playback..c
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hidavi:
Well, the Cube is really fluid on my Tilt...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ulupong:
****!! theyhtc said software optimization will be release on end of march it is end of march and they did not give? promising something which they will not give,, fck!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jasperrr:
Yes but like everyone else saying this or that does work good for me, try running a simple video with a high bitrate or a GBA Emulator or Tomtom.

Then you'll see why everyone's so pissed.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mcse3010:
Tilt has issues

I think my Tilt has even worse issues than just missing a few video graphics drivers... Apparently running the Spb Benchmark listed above... I get an appaling 2.47fps on DDB BitBlt, and a totally livable 26.26fps on DIB BitBlt. 2.38fps on the GAPI test...

My camera when trying to take a picture is like having a digital camera set with the shutter at 1/2 second or 1/3 second or something... I can't even BRACE and hold it still enough.

For all its flaws, its still a great device -- The best phone I've ever owned... but I do feel slighted and quite Pi$$ed off at HTC for screwing their customers over this whole driver issue.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] my95z34:
Very nice e-mail. Please keep us posted on what ATI has to say, if anything.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] storino03:
Typical. No clear cut answers anymore...it's sad.

--James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Wijnbo:
It seems the HTC P6500 has either a driver, or it's running on XTC. Does it has the same ATI chip as the Kaiser? Hope so!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ray.andy:
looks like it does use the same chip, see below:

Full HTC 6500 specsÂ are:

Quadband GSM (GSM 850/900/1800/1900)/EDGE, WCDMA tri-band (2100 or 850/1900 MHz), HSDPA connectivity

Qualcomm MSM7200, 400MHz chipset

MicrosoftÂ® Windows MobileÂ® 6.0 Professional Edition OS

3.5â€? large anti-glare touchscreen

3 mega-pixel auto-focus camera

GPS

Wi-Fi and Bluetooth 2.0

1 GB internal memory

2 SDIO slots
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rhov23:
I think you got it wrong dude (or is it me?)

There is no update coming for "HTC Touch" :(

It doesn't list as an affected device, maybe he misunderstood your post.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Autourdupc:
Sony use a PPC with same Qualcomm...

Dear all,

I found this link...

http://www.adonismobile.com/2008/02/leaked-experia-x1-runs-on-windows.html

A new product from Sony "Sony Ericsson Xperia X1" use the same Qualcomm 7200 processor...

And Sony will create the missing drivers if needed

http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=news&id=5070

Can we imagine a solution to get a copy of the driver used in this PPC ?

Laurent.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Wijnbo:
Is there a real chance to extract the drivers from that rom and get them working on other HTC devices like the Kaiser?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Autourdupc:
Is there a dev. listenning ?????

Please, we need your help !!!!

Laurent.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rev3nant:
Same thing every few pages :D

We need to find a ROM from P6500/6550

first.

Until then, we can only guess.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] vampyre:
wow...i think it's great what you guys are trying to do to save Kaiser , unlike HTC which is the one responsible for this mess!!

Just curious , any progress in this project?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doughnut:
^Indeed, i was going to buy one of these tomorrow but after reading this thread am no longer keen on doing so...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] MDA-Fan:
So........ I´ve done the same test with my kaiser.......

1. The CPU-speed seems relatively normal to me.

2. No comments to that........ Everyone can see..........

3. Don´t know what to think of it.

4. THE EVIDENCE!!!!!!!!

5. That´s the interesting point in this Benchmark. Maybe we´re able to get the drivers out of the P6500/P6550?

These benchmarks are made with my T-Mobile MDA Vario III (original ROM, etc.). For those who do not believe this, go and do them on your own!

Finally: I fear that the poor speed is not only caused by the missing drivers, but I want these drivers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Autourdupc:
Can you pease give me the link to the software for making a benchmark ?

Laurent
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] MDA-Fan:
Here it is:

http://handheld.softpedia.com/get/System-Utilities/Enhancements/Spb-Benchmark-36366.shtml

But maybe we schould open a new thread with the results!?!