yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
What's the likelihood that it's nothing more than a QTV upgrade for Windows Media Player instead? :P

Afterall, this is the cheapest, quickest, easiest, most visible way to shut everybody up about the video issue.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
I would be very #$@#$%.

My main concern is the horrible performance in the OS.

Using the device as a phone is problematic!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
@Chainfire

I've just tried Opera 9.5 beta and it noticed that panning around the page with stylus is as smooth as baby's butt.

Since you're mentioned that you'reworking on understanding how that "Sword" game or whatever is bypassing touchscreen lag, perhaps you'd have better luck with Opera.

Page scrolling/panning there is amazing, no lag whatsoever.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Septastrum:
If it's opera mini, perhaps it's because the rendering etc. is done remotely and then sent to your phone? If it's mobile I dunno. Where can we get the latest beta? :) I'm just looking and it seems they're on opera mini 4, and opera mobile 9.33?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
It's opera mobile as far as I know

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=369011
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gthing:
Very interesting article. They don't name a source, but the info seems pretty plausible to me.

Qualcomm simply has to change their pricing scheme. If ONE device gets released with full driver support, the community will backport drivers to everything possible. It's a flawed model.

It's nice to know Qualcomm is to blame.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nojnaworb:
Man I hope that the "one device" that you refer to gets released soon. If it weren't for ROM cooking we would all be screwed on the performance of our expensive little devices.

I also hope its true that HTC is not as guilty as we thought. I have had a

Dell X50v and now this Kaiser. Their hardware kicks ass. I thought I had found a home.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dirlan2001:
It's not complete. Need also the ATI screenmapping and the other tables etc....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] storino03:
I found it off of a website from back in 2005. I haven't had much luck finding links that worked (back then) because they are all broken, especially ones that contain all the ROM files for the hx4700

--James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Monrad:
I've spent money on very useless stuff in my life, I can give away $10 more and who knows... maybe those $10 will be the best investment ever :P

I think we need someone to organize all this "money" thing.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] JeffHowden:
Between my business partner, father, wife, and myself there are 4 Tilts needing better drivers. Count me in for no less than $50.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
I have put 30 Euro in the other thread, so if both wizkids could make it happen, just great!

One small advice:

Betaboy from Corecodec

did confirmed that he would share some new information how they tweaked the video drivers

AFTER the Coreplayer V1.2 release. (to be presented on CES on jan 7th in Las Vegas where he will show a flawless working video on the Tytn II)

On the other hand, the camera issue will not be solved through this 3rd party software. (confirmed by betaboy on his own site after my question, but now this message seems to be deleted which makes me wondering...)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kwickone:
I will donate $10 USD toward this effort.

Bring it on you smart bastards!!! :eek: :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
CorePlayer uses a HTC specific driver for video playback. This is not the same as the video drivers we are trying to fix here. What needs to be accomplished is better termed 'display driver'.

Nevertheless, what the CorePlayer guys will publish about the QTV driver will still be interesting :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] smuook:
It would be nice to hear from Cmonex and Olipro about this... before people start throwing money around and providing them a Kaiser, I'd like to see them post in this thread concerning what the expectations would be, what the level of commitment would be and what type of time frame we are talking about. I know there are no guarantees with this, I'm not looking for that. But I think that might help the cause and would be in everyone's benefit if we knew what their thoughts are... vice going through an intermediary.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] djthomas:
Where's the paypal donate button?

We'll get the party started.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Pawel062:
hold on with the donations. i was hopping we could get a device donated instead of cash for a device but that works too. they will post here soon. however that soon can be somewhere around the 8th or 9th. they are on vacation :p in my area right now bc they wanted to spend i guess new years in ny and im close to ny. i havent been able to reach them though since they got here. i was suppose to meet with them and discuss this and other things. once i do get in contact with them ill have them post here. even if it has to be from their or mine athena
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chrisnash:
If you can wait until after next weekend (13th) I can loan a device for a while if that helps.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Infornography:
dude, your a goddamned hero if you'll let them use your kaiser to help the rest of us.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikulec:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=356193
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DutchmanIII:
Yeah you know I've actually been wondering for a while now whether HTC might be working on a driver and releasing it with a WM 6.1 upgrade.

Maybe I'm just too hopeful, but it would be a nice surprise :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] christonge:
Not sure what to expect from HTC as when I have previously called the support line they were far from helpful and unaware of this problem......but I personally think the project is a great idea and would also be very happy to contribute towards a device.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
there's a video driver bounty going on.. maybe if some of the people in there pay up front instead of waiting for complete driver, then we can buy kaiser and ship it to them for hacking.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Flying Kiwi:
I agree with the far from helpful part - I've sent a 1 month old failed charger to their global warranty dept and received no reply. I then faxed them a few weeks after that, still no reply. Snail mail letter went off a couple of days ago....

As for being unaware of the problem, I wouldn't take to seriously any large company claiming they were unaware of a problem with a product. It'd be nice to think they'd just own up to mistakes and problems and get to work fixing them but usually it's just a standard damage control reply.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Menneisyys:
Stating being "unaware" is a well-known business practice employed by many companies. Then, they can deny any responsibility of not fixing bugs.

Like the infamous touchscreen bug I've been keeping reporting them for two years... they either haven't bothered to fix it or found it unfixable.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
yeah well unfortunatelly US has very limited market when it comes to not only PDAs but even cell phones. I mean, you can risk getting a $500+ PDA from ebay and pray some provider will support it.. but that doesn't sound like a good option to me =(

Hope HTC will step up and support our PDAs as we hope..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
unfixable? but the HTC 6700 doesnt have the problem. they obviously did something right there.

i think if we can get a programmer or rom cooker with a 6700 and a kaiser they might be able to get a working screen driver, without the lag.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Isaygarcia:
o.o =/

=/... so this drivers can be extracted from another ppc?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Yes. We're currently working with the set from the KS20. The 6700 however, uses totally different chip, so we cannot use that one :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mav42:
Heres a interesting theory, HTC claim that the Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices do not use ATI’s Imageon video acceleration hardware, could this be down to the fact HTC require a licence from ATI and chose not to pay it ?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] zrgn:
WM Experts Insider Q + A

I think this article by WMExperts sheds some light on the problem.

Here is a Summary by scsl:

Of particular interest is a thought in the comments section by sml_blok:

This is probably a pipe dream because the chances of Qualcomm talking to an individual are slim to nill.

http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/editorials/qualcomm_htc_chipsets_and_feat.html
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
In the HTCClassAction threat the following link was posted:

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5777&Itemid=1

Any other news?

Why can't #$%@#$% HTC confirm this with a press release.

IMO they deserve to be hit with a class action suit at this point even if they fix the issue!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mattdehat:
Why Not Get One Out Of The Bounty.....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] storino03:
I would be interested. Send me a PM

--James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] marksweb:
this has probably been posted already, but i'm glad to see it so i'm sure others will be to!

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/18/fix-coming-for-htcs-drivergate-sort-of/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kishorvalji:
htcs own response

i email them this message

"i am asking to ask when the video drivers for the chipset in my phone will be available or if they are in development.

also my phone has touch flo but i cant see any touch flo features i require clarification of this.

thanks for you time and i look forward to a positive response."

the response i got was

"Hello Kishor Valji,

Thank you for your inquiry about the HTC TyTN II.

We know it is important for you to have the latest software for your device. We regret to inform you that there are no drivers in development for any chipset on your HTC TyTN II. If you are referring to the complaints about video playback regarding the Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based hardware on our various HTC devices, we are happy to inform you there is no such problem.

HTC does not develop dedicated or exclusive multimedia devices. The Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based models do not use ATI's Imageon video acceleration hardware, and the phones were never intended for such purpose. Additionally The HTC Touchflo software is exclusive to the HTC Touch model, and no other HTC branded device. The HTC TyTN II only has the Home plug-in for the today screen. You will not be able to navigate your device in a fashion similar to the HTC Touch.

I hope we have answered your question in detail, Kishor. Please contact us again if you have any other inquiries.

HTC Technical Support"

its as clear as mud as engadget reports this

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...ster-video-for-affected-devices-no-drivers-i/

confusion i hope htc sort this out otherwise back to iphone it will be :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChumleyEX:
So what their saying is that.

1. We're not getting drivers

2. That they are making the phone faster by tweaking the software.

I say, Do both damit I want a faster phone.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Zhadum:
HTC sucks

Just tweaking not the real thing :(

TyTN II owners, put your cash back in your wallet -- for a minute, anyway. CEO Peter Chou himself along with HTC's European VP have allegedly both gone on record saying that accelerated video drivers are in the works for an unspecified number of devices afflicted by the now-legendary performance issues. Independently, though, we've received word from HTC that that's not quite true. While the company is definitely banging through some improvements in the way video is handled on some of its recent touchscreen models, it turns out that there's technically no driver involved for the dormant Imageon circuitry; rather, the company's crack team of engineers has discovered performance enhancements to the existing software stack that they hope to roll out in the not-too-distant future (March is the tentative plan), and if all goes well, it won't even involve anything more painful than a .cab install. It's a marked improvement over the last official statement, isn't it?

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...ster-video-for-affected-devices-no-drivers-i/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] GilesTheAlmighty:
just got off the phone to HTC, the guy said that a patch will be released soon, he had no date but he assured me that something was being released, whether it be the drivers or a video player, who knows! but its something at least!!

Just thought i'd add to the Uber Post!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Guys, don't forget that customer support people are kids that make minimum wage and don't give a crap about anything.

Their answers contradict each other way too much to give them any credibility. Transalation = they don't know what the hell they are talking about.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] wim26:
damn I can't take this anymore. Give the drivers or I will never never never buy a HTC again. This is a load of crap.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] drownage:
PATCH i repeat PATCH... meaning no drivers still...

even according to:

http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=news&id=5080

we're screwed... i dont trust HTC anymore... I want to be able to run manila, but patch isnt gonna help much... I'm just gonna wait till that patch comes out so I dont have to sell my Kaiser for less... atleast I can be like theres a patch to whoever buys it...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cmonex:
it sounds interesting... what would this involve...

also, what kind of programming.. in C/C++/asm?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
I can see where that is going.

They are probably going to release some fix that will make video playback in media player 'better'.

But they won't address the real issue of bad graphics performance for any GUI.

FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! FVCK HTC! ... now I feel a little better.

I say screw them!

I will never buy another HTC! Motorolla and Samsung also make some nice WM devices!

CAN WE PLEASE GET THE CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT OF THE GROUND?!?!?!

Screw them where it hurts!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Raven_coda:
Count me in
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Atlantaman:
This thread is a joke guys. Why is there no moderation. I'd say two thirds of the posts contribute zilch towards the "Proper video drivers and unlocker Project ". Loads of posts giving totally useless speculation and more moaning followed by more moronic moaning.

Why do I have to wade through the drivel to find the stuff relevant to the Unlocker Project and how it's going.

Pull you finger out mods and get this cleaned up

Yes I'm getting cheesed off with the way this thread has now taken the place of the class action thread as the place for mindless utterly boring and unedifying speculation and posts about "the B******s at HTC who are bound to screw us", presumably this will be just before HTC organize the commencement of armageddon.

This is the Proper video drivers and unlocker Project thread the rest is off topic for here and should be removed or at least moved to a more appropriate thread - perhaps the class action one. JJ
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greenbrd:
True dat. Priority #1 for telephone customer service reps of just about every company in the world is to end the call as quickly as possible. Period.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] beefaronee:
C-Net Rating

My first post, so forgive me if it is not in the correct thread. The CNet rating on the ATT Tilt is at 7.1 out of 10, which they consider "Very Good". I am wondering if the rating were around a 3, the driver issue would get more attention from ATT and HTC. As long as folks see a high rating on the device, they will continue to purchase it unaware of the slow video processing. If all the unhappy folks would go to CNet and post their review the rating should drop fairly quickly as there seems to be a large number of unhappy consumers. I just posted mine, it didn't take long.

Link is

http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/at-t-tilt/4505-6452_7-32638455.html
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] storino03:
First of all, this whole thing may have started with the HTC Tilt initially, but it affects a lot more devices than just the Tilt. All modern HTC devices are affected.

--James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Menneisyys:
I'm not sure the CNet folks are at all reading WinMo forums or leading, not-just-hidden-advertisement blogs / tech writers (like me)... otherwise, they wouldn't have posted such a stellar review or, at least, would have mentioned the driver problem. (Now, it isn't even mentioned.)

In addition, their review is pretty superficial. Just an example: "Last but not least, the AT&T Tilt is equipped with a 3-megapixel camera with up to 8x zoom and video recording capabilities." - they didn't even mention it's digital zoom (read: crap).

BTW, it's the user rating that's 7.1, NOT that of CNet. The latter is 8.3.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] btbeeston:
I am interested in helping, any idea what would be involved? I have plenty of experience in embedded programming, C/C++ and ASM (mainly on ARM), however never really worked with Windows Mobile as I mainly do industrial automation/communication.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kpblaesing:
why not phone them all at the same time

call all customer service reps at the same time

Call all htc offices at the same time

On a Monday and a Tuesday and Friday

When their switchboard is busy and everybody wants the same scripted questions answered

they going to have a press release

Ps any news about the new rom which has been release for the tilt in the USA

they might have updated the graphic drivers in there
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
No. No drivers in the tilt rom.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hslayer:
actually we should setup a date to have everyone on the forum to call at the same time. just to show how many of us are freaking pissed off...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Zhadum:
If they don't come with dissent drivers, I will never buy again a HTC device for sure... So they can save money now and have a large profit but in future all of us will no Fu**ing way are going to buy a HTC. And I am telling a lot of people don't buy this or any HTC phone

They are shooting in their own foot, and keep doing that...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] trashie:
HTC new video drivers

Hi all,

Have you heard about that (sorry it is in french) :

http://www.mobinaute.com/126670-htc-promet-drivers-video-smartphones-touch-dual.html

To make a small translation :

Florian Seiche, the vice-president of HTC Europe said that « some drivers allowing video acceleration on HTC devices will be soon released ».

Hope it is true !
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jweather:
Theirs a new rom on HTC's website thats being talked about now

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=371235
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] at10ti0n:
another official statement made to dailytech: http://www.dailytech.com/HTC+to+Release+Software+Fix+for+Video+Issues+Next+Month/article10751.htm

looks like no drivers for us :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Michaelr219:
two words, "theyre cheap"
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
What makes me really angry is language like this:

It *$#%@^#$% says Multimedia device!

And it touts its specs which make it look faster than devices from HTC that are 3-4 years old BUT IT IS SLOWER!!!!!

Please let's get the Class Action suit off the ground and rape that company until it is bankrupt!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] M@ster:
Obviously HTC think we are stupid sheep who will take a bite and run to buy another expensive device where drives will be included. My wife have Tytn, an I have Tytn II what cost me 870 Euro in my country. For that amount of money and trust, I think we do not deserve that arrogance. Because of that I will never ever buy anything from HTC for sure!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Macgyvec3:
No more HTC.

I agree. This is redamndiculous. I've purchased 4 HTC devices over the last 4 years and I have recommended them to many others who have purchased them too. If they do not fix these serious issues which cripple our phones I WILL NOT buy another HTC and I WILL NOT let anyone or my company buy them EVER.

I used to love HTC.....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ladytoast:
Shouldn't we wait till we see the new software improvements first?

See how fast Opera 9.33 is? It is clearly possible for the device to operate quickly without drivers. Perhaps what ever they are talking about will help.

I'm not interested in games so not concerned about openGL/3D stuff. I am interested in the camera and general movements around the OS though, if they can fix those issues I would be happy to forget this whole thing till my next purchase, probably a Nokia.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Zoolooc:
I'm too not really interested in games, but making use of the 3D capabilities would indeed be cool, especially knowing that there is dormant hardware able to do it.

What I fear more is that their "dramatical fix" will only address video playback, to answer the claims after multimedia performance and the general misunderstanding (htc is not innocent about) of the whole issue, and thus maybe general responsiveness of the OS menus and applications will still be the same, sluggish like ****...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mav42:
I knew it had to do with licencing:

"In addition to making sure the required hardware is present, unlocking extended capabilities of chipsets like the MSM 7xxx requires in-depth and time consuming software development, complicated licensing negotiations, potential intellectual property negotiations, added licensing fees, and in the case of devices that are sold through operators, the desire of the operator to include the additional functionality. To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become.

the Cheap B'stards.............

I really like the part where it is suddenly the consumers fault for not realizing their product is crap, And i did ask can this play movies i was INFORMED yes,can this play games?,i was INFORMED yes, did i check the specs??...YES did the specs tell me it wont play movies NO
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dperren:
If this only fixes video playback according to the tightest possible definition (i.e. only doing what CorePlayer have done), then I'm not going to be happy. Personally, I'm not that bothered about watching video on my TYTN-II. What I would like is a GUI that doesn't drive me to frustration every single time I use it!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gibs:
Fortunatly I have an iPhone, and my next purchase is iPhone V2 !

At least there is a real OS with incredible drivers ! :p

Bye HTC ;-)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Yeah you're screwed too, just in a different way =))
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] borealcool:
For now he may have less choice when it comes to third party apps, but the only ones I see getting screwed lately are HTC device owners. The iPhone's OS, processor, large transflective display, overall performance and intuitive UI leave current HTC devices in its dust. Oh and yeah, the price is also attractive.