yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Mogul, XV6800 General] jgzesh:
if memory serves me

if i remember right. when reading the thread over at pdaphonehome for the past year about these phones. someone mentioned that the memory was integrated into the qualcomm 7500 chip. going off that, i would speculate that the extra 64MB of ram that is available in the touch and tilt is a external chip soldered on the board somewhere. if this is the case, then that is why no one can seem to identify the memory chip needing replaced. until someone tears apart one of these other phones and identifies the memory setup properly. then this idea is only vaporware at best.

so on that note. any one have a insurance claim for a lost (broken touch or tilt) willing to be given up for dissection?:)
[Mogul, XV6800 General] TumTum101:
I found some internal pictures of the Tilt.:)

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=791306&native_or_pdf=pdf

Thanks to binny1007 for giving me the idea to look on the FCC site.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] xweaponx:
We need pics like that of the Mogul/PPC6800/P4000XV6800.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] binny1007:
fcc pictures

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=738594&native_or_pdf=pdf

I posted this on the last page :)
[Mogul, XV6800 General] pflatlyne:
I don't see any chips that could be the ram. I strongly suspect that the qualcom chip set has the rom bundled in. The next step we need is to see the board on a touch. I expect to see either an extra 64M ram chip on the touch,or one of the qualcom chips will have a slightly different number,indicating that it is a version that has the extra memory. I think the only way we can know is to see how the touch was built. If it IS bundled into the chipset, it may still be possible to upgrade depending on how similar the chip is. If its identical except for the ram,it might be possible to swap it out. Of course,it might be too different,have a different pinout or simply have some sort of identifier in it that makes WM barf when it tries to boot up. Certainly if the ram is bundled into the chipset,the posibility for a ram upgrade is poor and even getting the correct chip,should it be possible would be difficult and might require a cannibalized touch as well as a signifigant level of skill to execute.

I just looked at the diagram on Qualcomms website. http://www.cdmatech.com/download_library/pdf/diagram_msm7500_cs.pdf

The block diagram implies that the memory is in fact in the 7500 chip. This in fact is looking bad. We really need to see a disassembled touch.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] foghelmut:
Not sure how to work the FCC site, but I found this on the Touch:

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/...e=N&application_id=302771&fcc_id='NM8VOGU100'

No diagrams, but maybe its a start?
[Mogul, XV6800 General] TumTum101:
There are some pictures here: http://keee-keee.blogspot.com/2007/07/htc-touch-dissasembly.html but you can read much on the chips. Maybe the poster could send better pics to us.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] TumTum101:
Here is another, but again the pictures aren't the greatest.

http://www.pdacenter.ru/razborka/razbor_htc_touch/
[Mogul, XV6800 General] TumTum101:
Good news. The FCC is going to make internal photos for the Touch available on the 15th of this month. I will post the link when it is available.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] riDuh7:
I also think upgrading ram on Titan is "essential". I mean... everytime I run S2D2, Internet explorer, and the touch program, my memory always goes up to 90+% and sometimes freeze the damn thing. It'd be really nice if Titan had 128Mb instead of 64.... :(
[Mogul, XV6800 General] ponicg:
Bump. Anyone see this? I tried to find it but had no luck.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] TumTum101:
The internal pictures of the Touch are now available on the FCC site:

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=818518&native_or_pdf=pdf
[Mogul, XV6800 General] pflatlyne:
Thats really odd. I expected to see an extra chip. I see two possibilities. One of the Qualcomm chips may contain the ram internally. In that case,it must be a slightly different chip and the numbers should reflect that. The numbers in the touch pics are too blurry to read,but they appear consistent with the ones in the mogul. At the end of the day though,they are too blury to make any real comparisons. Another option could be that the Samsung chip contains both the ram and the flash rom. This would be odd but not unheard of. The number on the chip in the touch is completely unreadable. Its not even possible to see they are similar.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] pflatlyne:
I found what we were looking for. The samsung chip is what is called an MCP or multichip package. It contains both the ram and the flash rom. Here is a link to the selection guide. The chip in the mogul is on page 21.

http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...ownloads/memory/psg_memory_storage_200708.pdf
[Mogul, XV6800 General] ponicg:
So if I'm reading this PDF right, we've got either:

RU25664

RC25664

The RC25664 would be a non-upgradeable part since it's the bigger 56pin BGA in that class. If we have the RU25664, however, we might be able to drop a RU256128 into it, upgrading our ram by 64MB. However, looking at:

http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=7991&highlight=disassemble&page=1

Looking at the image in that post found here

It seems that we may have a different chip... the KAG001002M-DGGY

which is (according to this) a 1Gb/512 Mb chip(FLASH/DRAM)... I don't quite get why we're only running 64MB then. (edit: Duh.. cuz 512Mb = 64MB... whoops. And I've got a CS degree, hrm)

Anyone want to put in some input?
[Mogul, XV6800 General] ponicg:
Ok... so it's kinda dumb to quote myself, but I think it's needed in this case. For reference, the numbers posted above are NOT MB(Megabytes) but rather, MegaBits... which makes sense.

A 2Gb/512Mb chip is really 256MB and 64MB. The chip in question is a 1.8V/1.8V 11.5x13x1.4(mm x mm x mm) 137Pin FBGA chip.

There is an upgrade to that, the 2Gb/1Gb chip: KBE00500AM-D437000

which is 1.8V/1.8V 10.5x13x1.4 137Pin FBGA. What I question, though, is the fact that the KBE00500AM-D437000 is NOT DDR, while the KAG001002M-DGGY is DDR, according to that PDF. It may be slower(but faster since we have more RAM?) or it may not - who knows how good the memory controller is on these devices... sorry for the confusion.

Edit #2:

I may be reaching here, but the Samsung chip in the touch looks like it could be KAL00X00VM-D1YY000 - but the question is does the Touch have 128MB rom or 256MB rom?
[Mogul, XV6800 General] njmarchetti:
The newer versions of the Touch such as the CDMA Vogue (Alltel/Sprint Touch... XV6900) along with the released GSM upgrade all have 256 rom/128 ram.

The original Touch only had 128/64.

So if it is a CDMA Touch then, yes it is 256/128. If it is a GSM, then it will be hard to tell since the only change made to the upgraded verions is the 256/128 rom/ram.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] fishpony:
so what are the chances of the touch chip fitting in a mogul then?? if theres a chance then who will attempt it? I think i'll pass but i would love to see someone get it working.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] ponicg:
I think we're still at an impasse until someone disassembles an HTC Touch and verifies the chip. Secondly, the chip sizes DO differ, but if its the same amount of pins in BGA, then it IS doable to make the electrical connection. I'm also assuming that since the Touch uses WM6 and the Mogul does also, that there's a WM6 driver for the Samsung RAM/ROM with the right drivers to access the full amount of RAM. Now, with that said, I think we need to consider the size problem and then we need to verify it's the chip I think it is from the Samsung site as well as from an opened Touch... then we can attempt to Frankenstein it.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] fishpony:
i wish i had connections to a sprint service center. I'm sure they'd have access to touch motherboards and parts. anyone want to go into a service center and see if they'd let you take a looksie? maybe buy a mobo under the counter from them?
[Mogul, XV6800 General] pflatlyne:
If the chips have the same pin out,its worth trying,but not necessarily doable. The board might not have all the pins connected. A big question is whether the boot loader in the touch will come up on a mogul. The chip set is similar so it might. (I doubt that windows would actually come up,but it would be interesting to try it) If the boot loader does not come up,then we have to program the chip with the mogul boot loader before installing it.

If I had to guess,I would say there is a reasonable chance of the mogul being able to use the larger chip.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] dmcgroggan3:
Sprint Manager Here

I am a Sprint Manager at a Service Center. I cannot comment yet if the motherboards are the same, memory chip, etc. We all know the processors are the same and OS. Last post mentioned buying a Touch board from Sprint. NOt gonna happen. We dont have them. Repair centers dont replace stuff like that. They replace Ports, keyboards, screens, outer casing. Stuff like that. If the board has Liquid Dammage or is broken, they just send it out for replacement. It is very rare that a Tec would Solder anything. And they dont have the parts or training to do so. Just wires and such. I am gonna ask the lead tecs if I can have a look at a Touch Motherboard compared to a Mogul when they next open them. I will be in touch because I just found this Thread and I am running into the same issues with limited Ram you all are. One of the tecs here is quite good and may even be able to exchange the two chips if it possable (the same size). Remember, the moving parts in the Mogul make it critical they are the same size. :D
[Mogul, XV6800 General] xvicx:
Oh! good news. can't wait
[Mogul, XV6800 General] pflatlyne:
That would be great. What we need to know is the number on the samsung memory chip. If you could get a high res photo of the board that would be great too.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] dmcgroggan3:
Samsung Chip

I will work on it. the problem is that we dont open these phones every day. so one day we may open a Mogul, two days later we may open a Touch, we will see. Is the only Samsung chip in the phone the Memory chip? That way I can look for the name Samsung and just write down the number of the chip. In talking to the tecs they think it is not possable. They dont think the pins are the same, but they could be wrong, you know how tecs can be...at least mine "know everything"....right. Do you know the number of either of the chips yet? Honestley though, I wont be the first to do this if ou findings say they are compatable. I am just researching it for you guys. I really hope it all goes well because Roms help with memory, but 5mb as opposed to 50mb more...now that would be sweet!!:D
[Mogul, XV6800 General] ponicg:
So like I said, I dug around the 'net and found out that the Samsung chip in the Mogul is KAG001002M-DGGY, which equates to a 2Gb/512Mb Flash/RAM chip. This is exactly what I expected since the Mogul has 256 MB of Flash and 64 MB of RAM. (8 Mb = 1 MB, 8 b(bits) = 1 B(byte))

If the Touch's chip is indeed KAL00X00VM-D1YY000, then it's a 1Gb/1Gb Flash/RAM chip equating to 128MB storage, and 128MB RAM. There may be a trade-off involved.

However, the good news is that they're both 137pin FBGA chips, although the Touch's chip is about 1mm shorter on one side. This may or may not pose a problem. They also run at the same voltage.

Someone also mentioned that the Touch has 256MB Flash and 128 MB RAM, which might make it(looking at the letters on the chip in that blurry photo) a KBE00500AM-D437000 which is 2Gb/1Gb(256MB/128MB) which is what we'd expect. This too is the same 1.8V chip in 137pin FBGA package, but it is also 1mm shorter on one side than the Mogul's chip. Again, this may just be physical dimension of the chip, and not the connecting pin underneath, or it may shorten the chip and tighten the density of the pins underneath. My intuition tells me that they'd all fit the same pinout, and it's just the physical chip that differs, not the pins, but without actually having one of each in our hands we won't know. I'm going to try and call Samsung Tuesday and find out what they say re: FBGA and differing chip sizes.

If our friendly Sprint repair manager can get us a good res photo of the Touch motherboard, or alternate the number of the Samsung chip, I think we'd be good to go for this stage, and then we could debate what to do next.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] riDuh7:
Well, I'd gladly pay $100 just for labor. LOL

We need this to work!
[Mogul, XV6800 General] kain144000:
Sorry, don't know if it's m'OCD, but also wanna avoid any confusion, but...

8Mb (megabits) = 1MB (megabyte)

Anyway, I am SOo excited about this. What d'ya think the RAM'd cost. Once it's been done and the How-To is up, this'll be one h3ll-of-a DIY project. Probably won't get a new tele' 'til a WM7 VGA device comes out, once this is a go. Then, w/ the prospect of Android ::whoosh:: 'Goosebumps. LOL :D 'So *****in' that our tele's are on the way to becoming UMPCs. 'Long as the tele' & communications and OS stability parts stay priority, as far as reliability goes. No point in havin' these if y'can't take a call because that 100MB .pdf you're opening (from (*)SD(HC)) is a resource hog. :) Anyway...GODSPEED!
[Mogul, XV6800 General] ponicg:
And I screwed up the explanation. Blah. Heh, yes, 8Mb = 1MB, which is what I was trying to say:)
[Mogul, XV6800 General] jamesdwalters:
Just got my Mogul and am doing a little looking around to see what is available to optimize it when I found this thread. This is very exciting and I hope that it can be done.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] klmsu19:
the touch is indeed 256/128. we all know its 128mb ram for sure. on the memory settings it says 151mb total, but thats after the OS loaded, meaning its definitely not 128mb rom, has to be 256

i think if there was ever a way to get 128mb ram on the mogul itd return to it. But after having 128mb i cant go back it really is night and day in performance on the Touch which is the same processor, just double the RAM. Thats how wm6 was meant to be run you can certainly tell
[Mogul, XV6800 General] ponicg:
Feel like being adventurous? If you do... and feel like opening your touch - can you identify the RAM chip on it? If so we can move forward with this project. :) Thanks if you can, and thanks if you can't. You've clarified certain issues already :-D
[Mogul, XV6800 General] aboutthemind:
Wow You Guys Ran With This So Here Jtag Driver

HERE GOES I CANT READ TO MUCH HEAD HURTS . NO OFFENSE PPC? GUYS BLOWING SMOKE HAS ANYONE TRIED THE DRIVER FOR THE JTAG HIT A SCH-1700 WITH IT WALLAH I WAS SMOKING ITS THE DRIVER E 2% OF THAT ORGANIC SITE. iF THERE IS ANY REASON FOR MPPC ? GUYS THEIR IN CA SELL ASO WHY CALL GUYS THAT ONLY UPGRADE TO BE HERE ITS TO TELL YOU THIS. i HAVE HIT EVERY PHONE WITH EVERY DRIVER AND TWEAK I HAVE CONSIDERING THAT THE MAN MINSTRINI GAVE ME THE ABILITY TO COME BACK ANYTIME.

AGAIN DO NOT ATTACK ME BUT I DIDN'T GET THE STRIPES CAUSE I GUESS. number MEAN QUALITY AND MEAN PROPRIETARY.

SORRY I HAVEN'T BEEN INVOLVED BUT I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON A SOLUTION FOR THE SO CALLED PLACES THAT HELP YU BY PRICE GUAGING AND COVETING INFO

THE ORIGINAL MDA I HAVE IT RIGHT HERE (GOLDIE) TOOK ME 1 YEAR TO UNLOCK WOW. HAS THE BATTERY ANF THE 128 SOILDER CHIP BUT THATS NOT WHAT CAUGHT MY EYES.

THE DRIVER IS ALMOST TOP SECRET AND CAN BE LOCKED AND PUT AWAY APPARENTLY THE DIRECTIONS SAID THAT THE REASON THE XDA UNLOCKER1-9 DIDN'T WORK WAS CAUSE OF THAT.

SO WHAT DO I CARE FUN RIGHT THATS WHY WE ARE HERE

BLUE ANGEL NO RESPONSE HERMES NO RESPONSE

VERIZON NOW LETS JUST SAY IF I DEDICATED MY SELF TO A KITCHEN WE WOULD ALL OWN THIS PHONE BUT WITH THE REG MOLOSKI,JTAG DRIVER AND EVRYTHING THIS FORUM CAN SPIT OUT I PUT TO THE I600

END RESULT 128

STREAMING YAHOO TV NO SERVICE HOOKED UP NEVER DISCONNECTED

OH YEAH BY THE WAY THEY WILL NOT ACTIVATE A NEW I600 IT HAS TO USED AND IF THATS NOT ENOUGH THEN SH#%$tT

SPRINT NEXTEL SO BUSY DRIVING STOCK THEY ARE DUMPING 1000 OF BRICKED? STUCK IN BOOT LOADER DEVICES IN THE GARBAGE HTC NO

AGAIN FROM A MAN WHO ONLY SEES THE BOARDS ALL OF THEM IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE FIRST AND SECOND GENERATION BOARDS THEY ARE ALL THE SAME JUST BROKEN UP

TILT HERMES ARE OVER 5 YEARS OLD I GUAARENTEE IT

MADA VARIO HAS TO THE NEWEST AND THEY ENDED THAT PROGRAM CAUSE OF THE MACHINGOD

IM HOLDING 2 BOARDS WILL TAKE THE PICTURES AND THEN STEP OUT

I600

HERMES

FORGET HARDWARE THINK DRIVER UNLEASH WHATS THEIR

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT I REALLY DON'T TYPE WELL AND I AM INA HURRY NO PROOF READING GOT A COMPANY TO RUN. THIS TOOK N HOUR

BEFORE ANYONE JUMPS SHIP LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING ABOUT CDMA/EVO PHONES

WOW THE HARDWARE AND FIT IS FAR SUPERIOR THAN ANY OTHER CHIP BASED DEVICE
[Mogul, XV6800 General] aboutthemind:
Wow You Guys Ran With This So Here Jtag Driver

Google Sch-i600 Samsungs Top Secret Pdf Driver Manual
[Mogul, XV6800 General] bakntyme:
Can someone please tell me what language to use when I run this through Babel Fish?
[Mogul, XV6800 General] klmsu19:
seriously....wow
[Mogul, XV6800 General] ponicg:
.... Bueler? Bueler? LOL I'm clueless too. Back to your regularly scheduled programming... finding a good Touch disassembly pic.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] MakuSoto:
Another problem we will run into is ordering the chip. Samsung, nor their affiliates will sell to any person with specific details on the usage of the chip. Also there are minimum order quantities that ranges from 1500 pcs (minimum) and more.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] fishpony:
Call me crazy but the more i read about the video driver issue i think i would rather have that fixed than have extra ram. i know our ram is low and it sucks to not be able to use internet explorer, listen to mp3's, and check my email but i could get used to it if the device performed like it should. So i dont think we should get our hopes up too high that this will work, because honestly more than likely it will never happen, and as long as we can get the video drivers to make the device run faster overall then i will be happy.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] ponicg:
Hmm. Where are you getting this information? I'm not trying to discredit you, but I haven't heard of a company not selling a customer an item without a specific use for it. It just sounds... odd.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] ponicg:
Understandable that you'd want the video driver fixed. I don't get why you felt the need to be so downtrodden - "More than likely it will never happen" I know I practically NEED more memory... so I'm going to keep hacking at it till I get something done, or they release a better device:)
[Mogul, XV6800 General] MakuSoto:
i just called the distributors on the samsung sales page and they all do not sell by 1 pc but by the thousands.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] bigray327:
I'm in for one! :D
[Mogul, XV6800 General] stevesrjr:
obviously hacking the ram with a different chip is the hardest route to go cant someone just hack the os so that it has a page file on the memory card and will reconize it as its own memory therefore making the memory as big as you want it to be.. Simply because not all of use can open our phone and solder another chip in and certainly most would rather hack the software... what do you guys think?
[Mogul, XV6800 General] ponicg:
Not the worst idea... however I don't know how feasible it is. From what I've seen, the storage controller on the Mogul is incredibly slow - think about when you load a large app from the storage card. I'm not convinced it would work for the use you want. Anyone want to chime in on this route?
[Mogul, XV6800 General] bedoig:
I remember this being discussed before. I think the general consensus is that it would be way to slow to use for system memory.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] vaxick:
I'd say it would be worth a try if somebody is willing to do it just to see how it would perform, but I'm sure it would be a bit slow.

It really would be nice if somebody can figure something out as I really love this phone, but the low ram is just holding it back so much. I'm tempted to jump over to the Touch once it is released on Verizon, but I would really miss the features I would lose on my 6800.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] watson540:
what about using the extended rom space for a pagefile?
[Mogul, XV6800 General] pflatlyne:
It could quickly wear out the flash.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] stevesrjr:
yea honestly its worth a try does anyone have an idea on how to do this cause think about it there are 16gb tf cards coming out we can get 8gb right now and just throw 512mb to use as rom im sure there would be a way to allocate things so that it wouldnt be slow at all... i mean look at pocketcm over time it has gotten much faster when sliding up the keyboard it flips automatically.. What im saying is just get the ball rolling and as time goes we will finds ways to improve it :)
[Mogul, XV6800 General] ponicg:
We do understand where you're coming from. What you're failing to realize is the speed difference from onboard flash to sdcard flash. Have you ever tried loading a big program(4mb or so... Opera anyone?) from SD? It just tanks. It takes FOREVER. Now move it to your device's memory. Comparatively, it flies. The problem, I think, without doing too much research is that the storage controller is running over a slow bus(USB1.1 maybe?) and it causes everything on the card to crawl. It just would be relatively useless, I'd think. I'm not willing to invest time trying to write a driver(read: this would be a real pita without any more info like an SDK or some more detailed hardware specs, etc). Again, I think our best bet lies in a chip-swap.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] friedricebob:
I dont have a Mogul but this thread interests me ;D

do you have a clue where the first place to start to find out some answers?

I think the question you most need answered to find out if this is possible is if the two chips are pin-compatible.

Another thing comes to mind, however, and that is the fact that FBGA (Fine Ball Grid Array) chips are very much so NOT easily solderable without specialized equipment and training. If it were something like a PGA (pin grid array), it might be possible, but BGA (FBGA in this case) I don't see as widely feasible. Read on wikipedia's BGA page, specifically the "Expensive Inspection" section for a little insight of what replacing a BGA package entails.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] ponicg:
Nod. FBGA is a pain. I've seen some successful BGA replacements without specialized equipment(a toaster)... It's a PITA though. I think our best bet is to figure out if this is possible, try it and get it to work(I'm sure one of us can go to a PCBoard company and get it done for $50, etc) and then ship the whole process out to PPCTechs, perhaps at a discounted price for our work, etc... or sell it to them for a certain # so we can then use that to upgrade anyone who helped, etc.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] solarbarack:
I'll donate t the cause. Just let me know. I think that most people would if they thought it would work, but hey gps in the phone was beat too, right.:cool:
[Mogul, XV6800 General] friedricebob:
Oh wow, I didn't know about PPCtechs...still new to the PPC scene as a whole. They do seem to do BGA RAM upgrades for iPaqs, possibly some other devices.

Has anyone asked them directly if they know of a pin-compatible upgrade for the Mogul's chip? They seem to have the resources and the know-how to get an answer PDQ (pretty darn quick), especially if supplied with the chip numbers.
[Mogul, XV6800 General] watson540:
hey good idea! it was an even better idea when someone already mentioned it more than once on the first page.

usually i try to read more than one post in the thread im posting. to avoid embarrassments like yours