yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
I'm sorry, I misunderstood.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] planetbeen:
That's OK! I don't know if I even understand.

It may be easier to find a unicorn than to find someone with the B&O branded / tuned model of the v20.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] @rbiter:
Have y'all considered there may be nothing special with the body and odor version. Just branding because you get the branded earphones. Or maybe at the minimum it detects whatever impedance the earphones are and just gets a special eq since the earphones dynamic range is only rated 20-16khz? Seriously doubt ear buds are putting out much SPL near or at 20hz and 16khz? That's quite some roll-off at the high end. 4khz at the top is a lot.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Skripka:
Honestly...most adults and kids these days have such self induced hearing damage that 16kHz roll-off is barely noticed.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] @rbiter:
Male adults over 40. And the dumbass kids that think loud is better. Especially these lazy studios that just max out everything on recordings. But 4k is still a lot. Women might notice it more if they're into that thing. Men lose hearing with age, but some of us get exposed to decibels that can induce hearing damage that further exacerbates the problem. I noticed a small hit for two weeks when I was 38. Felt like my ears were slightly stopped up. 40 now so quite sure I took that being able to hear 20khz loss for sure.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Skripka:
Naw, not just over 40. Any live band show these days (cross genre-21 Pilots to Perry to Elton to Eric Church to you name it) is loud enough to hurt your ears. Most are so loud that even full on ballistic hearing protection only does so much-as the amplitude of the SPL is so high to cause your internal organs to vibrate. Most sporting event arenas are the same between crowd noise and pep bands.

Every year my workplace has a marching band rent the hall...show is a 2X+ sellout every year. We've clocked them at with our calibrated BK meter at 127dB sustained for 2 hours 150ft away at the FOH console.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] @rbiter:
I'm just going by science and average. Not every male is introduced to hear bleeding SPL often. But you're right. A lot of males that do get exposed early on probably have worse than average hearing by 40.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] planetbeen:
I have. Especially since after some googling there doesn't seem to be any mention of anything in real life about the "b&o tuned" models... Like...maybe they just came with some headphones and a brand sticker.... lol
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] @rbiter:
Exactly. That is what. I think. lG trying to add a little.pizazz by adding a high end logo to phone. That didn't work for HTC, though if they had stuck with it they might've made some money off the stock. And beats is a China made low quality highly advertised bass cannon for your ears. Beats studio edition cracks me up. I seriously doubt anybody is mastering recording with those, even The Doc himself. Over the bill of materials for that branding range from $10-&40. You're actually paying for the advertising and an implied membership to some stupid exclusive club. Kind of like how apple works, though to be honest, they do have some excellent engineering in most of their products. But bottom line, you're paying for the commercials, the implied membership to a high end status club, to be cool, functional jewelry or a shill to bias the reviews to receive free apple gear or the rare case of actually needing a MacBook to do very few jobs more efficiently though manyj of those specialties can be done faster and cheaper on a pc if the software is compatible or an equivalent works. The trash can Mac is a.good example but it was so proprietaryy and unserviceable by end user that it is actually much cheaper to get way more powerful hardware or compatible or can be emulated. And then it could still still have option of being upgradeable with newer hardware to keep up, can keep college and can be cooled much more efficiently and if one co.ponent breaks you can service that instead of sending in. Not to mention you can buy even better screens with much more access to calibrate on your own screen. and some calibration hardware to reuse for regular calibration periods. But so.e Pepe gotta ja e that apple logo for the prestige. Whatever.

...

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[LG V20 Questions & Answers] hykhleif:
I am really confused now

so I guess we need a summary of what is going on

1- when we use apps like neutron are we hearing the hifi dac or not hifi one

2- do high res audio files like 192/24 get down sampled to 48000

3- which player takes full advantage of the hifi dac without down sampling

as of now I am really appreciative if we can get solid answers to the 3 questions above
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
1. If you plug in headphones or speakers to the 3.5mm headphone jack and make sure that the hi-fi indicator is on, you are using the ES9218 "Quad" DAC.

2. Hi-Res files will get down sampled to 48000

3. None of the players can take full advantage of the built-in ES9218 DAC until LG fixes it's firmware.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] dartinbout:
Is there an objective method of actually measuring the feed to the jack? I hear differences in the various players I've tried, Poweramp 713 alpha, Neutron, the LG Music Flow, Elecom , the LG HD recorder playback and a few others. I've got All 24\192 music files on my V20 and I'm using the 250 Ohm Beyerdynamic dt 770 pro. It sounds great but I'm in this discussion to see if there room for improvement. I want to go to "11" in quality.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] audionuta:
Great thread!

Been considering HTC 10 vs LG V20 and this swings me towards the 10. Any thoughts on the chances the HTC 10 also outputs one sampling frequency from it's DAC?
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Emerald Core:
Thats funny. After all the hype, people are swinging away to the underrated HTC 10.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] bluelavender:
I think because of the finding in some posts above, that the high res advertised does not meet the reality found
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] daqid:
What about v4a? only reason why I root my phones these days is mainly for adblock and v4a. Power amp and v4a has been my combination for years. Is v4a a good combination with the dac or would it be pointless cause of the dac?

Edit: mostly play flac and some 320kb mp3s.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] hykhleif:
i really am surprised why things are not clearly mentioned by LG of goes on with the dac, does the music also get down sampled to 48000 in the stock music app, that is really not good as the main selling point and including a hifi dac is to play music with no down sampling, otherwise why include this quad dac

LG seems to have mislead us on this, I am not complaining bout the sound quality, but I like things to set up straight and to the point, since many of us bought it for audio as that is its big selling point

I really wish to know if someone can give us straight answers of what is going on with the dac?
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] douger1957:
Viper is essentially a digital signal processor. It modifies the digital stream in order to produce its effects. If 48K is the best the V20 can process, that's all it'll do with Viper.

It should be noted that a straight CD rip is 44.1K. Hi-res music is sampled at upwards to 192K. The people who have spent $20 or more to download a hi-res album or have ripped from DVDs are not able to take full advantage of the DAC under the current firmware.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
[/COLOR]

Yes, there is. First, on a desktop computer open Adobe Audition with the hi-res music file that you choose. If it is a true hi-res file, you should see energy in the frequency spectrum window above 22khz. Then plug a hi-res digital recorder into the headphone jack on the phone. Play the same hi-res music file from the phone and record the output on the hi-res digital recorder. copy the file to the same desktop computer and also open that file. The two frequency spectrum displays should look nearly identical with energy above 22khz.

In my tests, that is NOT the case. It is obvious that any player (including the ones bundled with the phone) will down-convert (decimate) the output thinking that the DAC cannot handle it.

---------- Post added at 04:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:36 PM ----------

+1

---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 PM ----------

If you are not playing hi-res audio and/or you do not have high-end headphones, you will not notice any difference.

---------- Post added at 04:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

I do not believe that LG has purposely misled anyone about this. I just don't think that they really tested it using audio that is above standard resolution. Now that we have found out, it is very embarrassing and they are not yet owning it.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] NotATreoFan:
I left the HTC 10 for the V20. I loved the 10 when it first came out, but constant firmware updates from HTC kept playing with audio levels and made the phone sound like crap. Even V4A couldn't save it for me towards the end.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Skripka:
I don't honestly know...but are higher-resolution audio files available for legal purchase download in Korea? I know many storefronts are region specific.

They also were probably also banking on SACD and hifi audio files having such low market penetration that it would be a non-issue save for a few of us crazy people who know and work with hifi systems....either that or maybe they tried and found strange SoC behavior with decoding high-sample-rate recordings, so they gimped it so that things always ran smoothly. With Nexus 6 Shamu, Motorola/Google deactivated the onboard encryption chip (when the phone was RTM with RTM firmware) that should have massively increased encrypt/decrypt read/writes---because the driver they had for that chip actually slowed down IO rather than speed it up. They had a hardware encryption acceleration chip-YAY, but it ran so badly (BOO) that even the software encryption on the CPU was faster. Which was a colossal WTF for all of us N6 folks.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
Hi-Res audio is available worldwide from many sites such as:

AiX records

2L Records

Onkyo Hi-Res

Naxos Records

Chesky Records

Blue Coast Records

etc.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] malifact:
I have a B&O branded V20 (Taiwan model). If one of you guys could give me instructions, I will check what you want on my phone.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Emerald Core:
Compare it with non B&O tuned V20 please
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] malifact:
I can't do that. The non tuned V20 is not available in my country.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Willyman:
It's easy to test if the phone outputs >48kHz natively in whatever app. Anyone with a Sound card with high res capable AD could test it.

All the previous Galaxy models (S6/Note 5/S7... Those I tested) could output up to 24/192 natively. I would be extremely surprised the V20 wouldn't be able to...
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] audionuta:
This reminds me of Chromecast Audio, it was resampling everything put out of it's optical output to 48 khz, until Google released an update
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
But the ES9218 DAC in it can handle 384khz PCM and DSD512, so only doing up to 192khz PCM would not be using it's full potential.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Madelynn28:
I just read all 11 pages of this. While the knowledge and conversation is great a Summary on the first page of everything known so far would be great.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] @rbiter:
96khz. Dl'ed the free bon Jovi album. Have t put my 24/192 files on phone yet and tested. This is neutron.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
The line that specifies the 96khz /24 bit, reads that information from the source file header and is NOT indicative of the output. Also, you should run that file through Adobe Audition and see if there is really any energy above 22khz. Most of the time, the music labels and/or music sellers upsample the original recordings into hi-res containers to resell for more money. It is kind of like buying a big box of cereal that is only 1/3 full of product.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] @rbiter:
Lol. You're just not going to give it a chance. We aren't going to be able hear much past 20k unless real instruments. I rip my audio from cd's into 16/48 anyways, so whether you're on the money or highly skeptic, 99% of the music I listen is CD bought. Every once in a blue moon I'll but a digital hi res track from hdtracks.com so it is of little consequence to my listening but nonetheless this is capable of 32/192 so yeah LG needs to come clean about it and fix it if it isn't right or clarify wtf is going on.

Anyways, I stopped buying as much hi res files once I bought a album that sounded like the orchestra was recorded from somebody's pocket. I sent several emails and HD tracks didn't care or acknowledge. Actually it was the last track I bought from them. Waiting for other services to catch up and cater more music because I stumble upon what I listen to as I don't stream or listen to the radio. Not bothered to do adobe auditions and find out.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] hykhleif:
can i ask are people bringing this down sampling issue to the attention of LG and what is their reply to this

as this is simply false advertising
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] dartinbout:
I have a very large collection of very high resolution files. I play them through a customized Auzentech sound card into an analog stage amplifier that sound noticeably better then when played through an optical\digital connection to the same amp. I only have 24\92 and above files, on the sd card, in the phone. When playing them on the V20, with a BD DT 770 Pro with a 250 impedance, the sound is degraded on anything else but the native player. "Music". If this is all cognitive dissonance on my part, then consider me a very happy mad man about this phone when used in this fashion (and yes, I own over 100 SACD and DVD-Audio discs and play them on a heavily modified Denon universal player).
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
The idea is not if YOU can hear the difference. The idea is if we are able to play our files the way they were intended to be played. We should get what we paid for. If you buy a Ferrari and it can go 180 miles an hour, it should be ABLE to even if you only drive it on city roads and go 60.

97% of the files that HDtracks sells is standard or below standard resolution files stuffed into hi-res containers and sold to the uneducated public at higher prices. The best way to get Hi-Res audio files is to purchase them from the record labels that actually RECORD using hi-res equipment.

---------- Post added at 03:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:30 PM ----------

Several people have complained. It is best if we get a lot of people to. It would put it higher on their priority list to address.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] hykhleif:
I sent an email to LG about and I doubt they will even look at my email, but this down sampling is to me an issue about ethics and respect to a person who cares about getting what I paid for
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
Thank you for taking time to do that.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] douger1957:
A lot of that has to do with how... and who... remastered and reengineered the music for hi-res.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Emerald Core:
The more issues i find on audio for smartphones. The more i realize how much justified Apple's decision to remove the headphone jack.

Seriously, it is now headphone makers headache to develop dacs and amps.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] @rbiter:
Good luck with that.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Emerald Core:
Well yeah, physically, it is a challenge to invent such quality in small form.

I guess most just attach external amps if they want to listen to high quality music. The rest will deal with all kinds of headphone signatures and distortion within a phone.

I guess i am too extreme on this post. Sorry.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] dragion:
This is quite upsetting to hear that the LG V20 is actually "down sampling" the Hi-Res audio to 48Khz.

Here is a screen shot of mine playing a 24BIT/192KHZ FLAC song with PowerAmp Alpha 704 and indicating it so.

This issue needs to be addressed and I appreciate all the information that has already been done.

The Quad DAC and the advertised audio performance was the "main" reason why I upgraded from my V10 to the V20!
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] hykhleif:
I feel totally being mislead, and honestly this will be my last LG phone, they lost credibility in my books, and I tried sending them an email but as you expect they will toss it in the recycle bin
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] dartinbout:
Poweramp Beta

I am fairly certain that the latest build of poweramp does not recognize the dac in the V20 the way it did in the samsung 7 note and s7. I have run comparisons with the same hi-res file, listening on a pair of BD DT 770 Pro at 250 ohms, using the native LG "Music" player, PA Beta, Nuetron, Black player beta, Hiphy, Elecom, the LG Music flow and a few others. The only player that plaued the music encoding similar to my custom Auzentech soundcard DAC, with the same headphones, was the native player when it accurately recognized the high impedance. IMHO, no one who has claimed the phone down "rez's" has ever described their headphone's impedance, the native format of the file (mine are all 24\192 and above) and what player they used. All of the other music players sounded constrained by their internal limitations. If you think the company is being deceitful, get a pair of serious headphones.

Also get a pair of bluetooth cans, that supports Apt-x HD, and play the same files as before, with the "Music " player, if you want to hear what the future holds for wireless. They are only 24\48 but it is a big difference over any other bluetooth device.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] dragion:
Not sure what gives you the idea that PowerAmp Alpha 704 doesn't recognize the DAC, but I know version 703 did with the V10.

I've tried a few headphones/IEMs and had the same results with two headphones which are designed with Hi-Rez abilities...The Sony MDR-Z7 and it's little brother MDR-100AAP.

I'm currently considering on purchasing the MDR-1000X for my BT headphone, but currently use the MDR-XB950BT for the fun factor.

I have several headphones and IEMs...not a true Basshead, but do enjoy some low end.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] vibrantliker:
These aren't in the price league of the MDR-1000X but I recommend them highly!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KWQ0TL6

I went through an obsessive study/purchases before buying them, comparing to Bose wireless, and many others in various shops.

You'll be plenty surprised.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] DreamOperator:
On 11/2/2016 at 1:51 PM, amstel78 said:

Until the next iteration of PA is released with LG V20 support, is there any way to disable the resampler? It's taking my 24bit/96KHz and 192KHz FLAC files and resampling the audio down to 48KHz even though the ESS quad dac is capable of ouputing natively?

No, the regular Android output modes do not support anything higher than 48k, even though PA is able to read higher files it can only output sound via the regular output stream on your device. Sorry, you'll just need to wait until the next set of drivers is implemented (not sure if that is likely to be in the next test release or not - most of the work at present is going into the new UI).

http://forum.powerampapp.com/index.php?/topic/8810-poweramp-alpha-build-703704/&page=13
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] evo4g63t:
My opinion is that if they advertised it as 32/384 that's what they need to deliver. Overkill for 99% of the population? Yes, but they are the ones advertising the product as such so that's what they should be held accountable to.

I am not a huge audiophile, in fact I am interested in the phone mostly for removal of the battery and its performance.

So in a comparison to video essentially what the Dac is doing is taking a 4k resolution video and downgrading it to 1080p? Is this a fair comparison?

---------- Post added at 06:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 PM ----------

Let's be real here, Apple had no justification to remove the 3.5mm jack the move was simply done to force consumers to purchase special lightning adapters from them. They made the same move when going from 30 pin to lightning adapter, they restricted 3rd party developers from making lightning adapters for 6 months forcing consumers to buy them from Apple. It's a cash grab nothing more.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] @rbiter:
That and they also had to make room for the haptic engine. Which is a big waste of internal space for the sensitivity. Google did it with long presses. Samsung does it with long presses also and for the note series wacom digitizers. But I wouldn't be surprised the priority was the money grab. Apple has run out of innovative ideas, sales are slowing down, they are copying android more than ever and the shareholders want their profits, consumer satisfaction be damned. Why get rid of something so useful and still an enabler for innovation, the 3.5mm jack? And those are some overpriced lightning accessories, not to mention the headphones. And how convenient apple bought beats right before this change. Now you're overpaying for headphones that will only work on apple products. Be cool and be broke or get something better, much better and still have money in the bank to hang out with the really cool friends.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
...now back to our regularly scheduled programming... the problem with the DAC and how to use it to it's full potential...
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] evo4g63t:
I apologize didn't mean to jack the thread yes please continue with the DAC issues.

I would hope LG would be able to release an update to address this issue.

So in video terms the dac is essentially taking a 4k video and Downgrading it to 1080p? Would this be a good analogy?
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] el_chuqui:
Dac related i hope. Most of my music is Flac even have some .ape (music player recognizes but wont play) but only maybe a dozen songs appear as hi-fi. Why is this?
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] dragion:
The "HiFi" indicates the the audio refers to higher than 44.1 kHz sample rate and/or higher that 16-bit linear bit depth....being lossless (FLAC/.ape) does not determine this.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] heero01:
I have a question does the bo version have the same problem as ours. If not can we look at there kdz or since the tmobile version has twrp flash there version on ours .
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Emerald Core:
Get a dac and buy another phone :)
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
I already have:

Audioquest Dragonfly

Emotiva Little Ego

OPPO HA-2

Light Harmonics V2+ Infinity

Chord Mojo

Chord Hugo

These are just my portable DACs. I was hoping to have a single device that could be both my phone and DAC.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Emerald Core:
I am quite happy with my all rounder ifi Micro iDSD paired with PC/iPhone. Still waiting for an android with musical audio capabilities.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] hykhleif:
with poweramp 704 alpha in the high res output setting*it does not see the sabre dac, because I am seeing in the high res output setting that the variant is snapdragon 24bit/-pcm

*

what do u see guys there

is this not an indication that powramp alpha 704 does not see the sabre dac, knowing I have hifi dac enabled

by far this hifi dac implementation by lg is so confusing