yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] dartinbout:
They are, I'm sure, wonderful IEM's, but this phone is not designed to make use of them. Get a portable amp\dac to use with this unique phone to take advantage of it's storage facility.

Using the IE800 would be liking mounting the wrong size (but wonderful) tires on your muscle car. Neither would benefit. Rooting the phone eliminates the DAC from the chain of music reproduction. Anything else other then plugging in a high impedance device is a complete waste of time and tech. The belief in a different outcome is akin to an insistence that creationism is anything other a fairy tale told to children.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Ilxaot:
I've been using almost exclusively GPM, and the DAC icon is shown highlighted in the status bar. Not sure if that means it's being utilized, but it sounds good enough to me!
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] JulAlx:
Hahaha.. Damn right you are :good:

So after heaps of research, I found the only phone with bitperfect audio capable DAC, is LG G5 with B&O DAC module. Confirmations exist that UAPP detect the DAC as a USB one and therefore bitperfect could be enabled.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] dartinbout:
Is that the LG "Friend" attached device or built into the dac on the phone? At $60, that's a pretty good deal on an external music device that is from LG. Cool, but not actually a real improvement on portability. There are lots of USB DACS that support bit perfect playback. I've got one but, this is not the grail many of us seek. There have been no specs for the LG 30 DAC as yet.

http://www.lg.com/uk/lg-friends/lg-AFD-1200
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] JulAlx:
I reckon V30 will follow V20 foot steps.

But that LG friend DAC thing is quite good stuff. There is a case available for the mobile with the DAC hooked on as well so you may not need to remove it at all:

gavinsgadgets.com/2016/05/21/lg-g5-with-hifi-plus-dac-case/

The whole point is to have the maximum convenience on the go, otherwise I stick to my Chord DACs when I'm at home.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] 3mL:
So, I have a pair of Philips Fidelio X2(32 Ohms) which my Xperia Z Ultra have some trouble to drive to a comfortable volume.

Would the DAC+Amp in the V20 drive them better, although the high impedance mode wont activate?

As a comparison, I'm using the FiiO E10K with my desktop which delivers great sound for my ears, would the Sabre DAC in the V20 even come close to that?

Cheers,

Emil
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] JulAlx:
Forget the V20 mate if DAC is important for you. Get yourself a G5 with B&O DAC module. That works and makes you happy.

Warning, won't work with the G5 American variation. Get yourself a European or Asian variant, H850 or H860 to be precise. Mine is on its way. Will report on it once I get it.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] 3mL:
How come you recommend the G5 over V10/V20 or even the G6, if you don't mind me asking?

Isn't the international version of V20 also equipped with a B&O tuned DAC?

Sure, DAC is important, but considering I use a $100 Fiio E10K which I find is enough for me, even when comparing with my brother's HD650s driven by the Objective2+ODAC(analogue Ed.).

My SO received her G6 H870DS the other day and I was amazed when listening through the HD650s, however...

When using my Fidelio X2s the volume were rather underwhelming in normal mode, a bit better in external mode but nowhere near the HD650s.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] JulAlx:
V10, V20 and G6 do not support Bit-perfect audio therefore you literally do not hear the real DAC built into the device.

G5 on the other hand has a modular design which is basically an extended USB interface, therefore the DAC module will be detected as a USB device by using apps like UAPP, Onkyo HF Player or HibyMusic which could easily output bit-perfect audio.

The idea is to have a single device on the go for maximum convenience, otherwise I have got many portable DACs that I could use via USB.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] UltraM8:
Has anyone found 9218 datasheets? I'm trying to understand what are the Harmonic filters inside mixer of yours phone. The 9018 also seem to have Slow Roll Off filter, but thankfully to lg idiots we can't turn that on.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] jt25741:
The new pro line which 9218 is part comes with linear phase apodizing choice. My hope is it is defaulting to that. But it would be nice to know for sure. V30 allows user selections here. Maybe with software update v20 will expose those too.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
I have a feeling that you are more enjoying the voltage gain from the dac rather than the actual DAC itself. What music are you playing? type? bitrate?
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Skripka:
Oh dear me no. I work in live productions...and I have to deal with f'ing clowns that crank $hit loud enough to cause earthquakes and damage to walls, nevermind the permanent hearing damage (worst offender was a christian rock group that we clocked with our calibrated SPL gauge at 99.7dB backstage behind the line arrays and 50 linear feet away).. At my place of work we have a $500,000 audio install (course that cost is just the line arrays/subs and boards...amps racks/patch bays/cables runs and what not were pre-existing) ;)

Trained orchestra musician here. Today, enjoying DDD recorded .cda converted to FLAC (640kbit IIRC) of Hahn with Academy of St Martin of Elgar violin concerto--also Brahms concerto. The timbre and texture resolution and staging on this thing is quite good for a damn phone. Desktop machine has an Essence STX with rolled op-amps (the stock ones were pretty small staging wise and a bit tinny TBH). Acoustic instruments like say bassoon in particular tend to be hard to get a good realistic sound out of due to that reedy purr (they start sounding like clarinets real quick). Have yet to see what the alleged mics do...I'm rather a skeptic, it isn't that hard to record a rock concert (most of which are just ridiculously loud and you can't really hear anything of there) which according to advertising is what the designers targeted.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] @rbiter:
Lol. No. This is a pretty good DAC. I like the sound signature better than JDS Labs CD5 DAC/amp and all the other little gear I have including Wolfson and homemade stuff that is nothing to brag about. This is up there with my surround sound system using onkyo 3009 as a pre/pro, parasound halo amps, dual Hsu subwoofers and RBH tower and bookshelf speakers. Not quite as smooth and natural as my theater but seriously considering selling any and everything that can power headphones except my moto x pure. That still comes in handy. I really like the sound of the ES9218. I think it broke in some, which I did not expect, but my DT770 PRO 250ohms are sounding the best they ever have. My CD5 can get much louder and make my chest rumble with Beyer COPs or 770's but it doesn't this good. 90% of my files are 16 bit 44/48 FLAC ripped from CDs. Some of my music is mp3 only from vinyl and not spending the money to get the CD, some of which is vinyl only release recorded into more format. Most of my mp3's are 320kb and ally FLAC's are 1000-1500kb+ bitrate.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] dbornack:
SO, bottom line.. what is the best player to use for lossless music locally on my phone?
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] FJ40dan:
Great stuff! Just curious how were you able to figure the DSD PCM stuff I couldn't find anything?
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] @rbiter:
Poweramp is popular because of the ui. Neutron sounds much better but ui isn't great, especially when driving. There are a few others but I only use these 2 and highly recommend these 2.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Skripka:
He's probably one of the few people on Earth who was buying SuperAudioCDs. :D

J/k [MENTION=2283959]mlknez[/MENTION]

Most of the audio universe operates on PCM to end user...last time I saw an SACD, was back when they were the size of 33 1/3 LPs. Hence why LG probably didn't bother taking out licensing on the format to include it. DVORAK keyboards are probably more common in the USA than DSD.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] dbornack:
Been a long time Poweramp user.. but I just tried the Quad DAC on/off and I'm not telling a difference.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Skripka:
123456
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] douger1957:
Hey... hey... hey... I have a few of those. Much cheaper usually than DVD. The only trouble is that you can't rip them unless they're hybrid.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Skripka:
LOL. Yea...funny thing is that in professional audio land MiniDisc is common (still)....that format died almost as soon as it appeared thanks to Sony in consumer land....but many many bands and troupes have MD player racks in their FOH and monitor worlds to this day/show-season
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] dbornack:
I loved MD.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Amd4life:
I use USB Audio Player Pro bitperfect mode, with variable rate.

MD was the perfect format. Small like a cassette, but clean. As usual price gouging and locking down the format killed it. Probably would have saved the music industry from mp3 proliferation imo
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] ZDeuce2:
Look up an app in playstore called DAC fix. It was made for the v10, but works on the 20 too, make DAC enabled for anytime your 3.5 mm jack is used.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
USB Player Pro does NOT output dsd to the ES9218 DAC. It converts to PCM first It will work with a USB external DAC, however.

---------- Post added at 12:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 AM ----------

I can rip them...
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] douger1957:
I don't have a PS3 and for me isn't worth the investment at this time. I can get most of what I have on HD Tracks.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
For files that are PCM <48khz there is very little difference in specs between the Qualcomm DAC and the ES9218. The ES9218 shines with RECORDINGS that are >48khz or DSD. I'm not talking about analog recordings that are transferred to digital media or stuffed into a hi-res container. I am talking about Hi-Res digital recordings of which there are very few that are released undecimated to the public. The noise floor, dynamic range and frequency response are unaltered by using the ES9218 DAC. This only really applies again to lossless, true hi-res recordings.

---------- Post added at 12:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 AM ----------

Perhaps I can help you out
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] douger1957:
I've got this bookmarked. I'll keep it in mind. Thank you.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Skripka:
Hmmm, last gig I had (earlier this millennium) was doing live archival recordings for a major NCAA institution...Not even a jury of music profs could blind-test tell the difference in ProTools from 44kHz PCM to 48kHz PCM with our pro-level monitor cans and rack. Color me a skeptic, but oh well. Couldn't justify buying the extra ProTools scratch space for their masters.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
Well recorded 44khz can sound better than poorly recorded 48khz. I am just saying that all things being equal, you will not notice much, if any difference on a 44khz recording between either DAC.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] bluelavender:
you're right. I tested it and it didn't change a thing. I'll try neutron soon.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] dbornack:
ME too. Disappointing, but, let's see what happens.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] nexus6R3plicant:
http://choilieng.com/apk-on-pc/com.lge.media.musicflow.apk

If u want lg music app
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] wwyjoe:
I've installed Neutron. When i enable the Hi-Fi Quad DAC toggle button, there's a momentary pause and listening level was lower. Do i take this as a sign that the Quad DAC is working and fully in use?
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] dragion:
I've confirmed on my T-Mobile LG V20 that the Hi-Fi Quad DAC with PowerAmp Alpha does work.

Switching on and off there is a slight pause indicating the change and the audio is improved with the DAC toggled on compared to it off.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] bluelavender:
ok, just tried both neutron and poweramp alpha (not the one in play store).

Yes, for both, when i tick the hifi-dac, there's a slight differences. For neutron , the bass is more noticable in certain songs with hifi-dac on.

For poweramp version in play store (stable version), it appears there is no change at all.

i have lg's own music app, but it's very slow in scrolling my music libraries...
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] king conan:
You don't need this app. The DAC is enabled in every app just enabling the HI Fi option.

The V10 users with Android 6 don't need it either. The app was a temporary fix during the first months with Android 5 when only a few apps worked with the HI FI DAC.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] bluelavender:
i read that LG V20 can automatically disable 3 of the DACs if either the music file quality is low or the earphone is also of lower quality. I'm curious how they determine this and anyway for us to know . I just find further, that for some earphones , i cannot find any differences between turning the hifi-quad-dac on or off (whether using neutron or not). Is this the sample when V20 automatically turning it off ?
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
I have not seen that anywhere. All I know is that it goes either to the Qualcomm DAC or the ES9218 DAC.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] bluelavender:
Ah, this is the source:

http://www.androidauthority.com/lg-v20-quad-dac-explained-713587/
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] NotATreoFan:
My biggest complaint with the DAC is one I don't think LG planned for.

I typically have my phone plugged in to my car with USB and running Android Auto. AA uses Bluetooth for streaming, so the DAC doesn't work. No big deal, as I expected that. However if I plug in an aux cable and play music through that connection, as soon as I launch AA, it kills the DAC, because although I'm not using it, Bluetooth streaming is available.

In no way is this a deal breaker. Just something I need to remember for when I want to listen to loseless audio in the car (which does support 48,000Hz over BT so even that sounds decent).
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Skripka:
Hang on, what does this mean? That the ES9218 only gets used when the source is 48kHz sampled....or that the ES9218 only outputs 48kHz?
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
Your player will convert any source that it can read, to 48khz PCM. This will cause decimation to all hi-res files.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] bluelavender:
Does this mean that all music players , except for lg own player do not and cannot use the sabre dac ?

So this mean that the good effect heard from neutron is neutrons own player...hmm
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Skripka:
Well, let's not get overdramatic just yet...depends on how good the resampler is. There are good ones and bad ones.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
No, that means that LG's own player cannot make full use of the Sabre DAC either!!!

Try this...

1. Plug in your headphone to the headphone jack and make sure that the HiFi DAC is on

2. Start NeutronMP

3. Go to settings

4. Go to Audio Hardware

It should have a listing of all frequencies supported. The only one listed is 48000

Exit the app and restart your phone.

Do the same steps as above but make sure that the HiFi DAC is turned off by unplugging your headphone

I also see 48000 for the other DAC

---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 PM ----------

Decimation is a technical term. It means loss of information. An analogy would be turning your pristine lossless music file into an MP3. This is nearly as bad as the Note 7 issues. The MAIN reason to purchase this phone is the audio.

Kind of like purchasing a Ferrari and getting a speed limiter at 55mph
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] @rbiter:
I feel like I bought a Porsche 918. It handles well. Just no cool afterburner exhaust like the car.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Skripka:
Oy...it is a technical term....but it only refers to when downstepping sample rate. Whether you're talking decimation or interpolation, depends on exactly what you are doing.

The few people in this thread buying DSD and owning SACDs may have to worry about decimation (if working with files >48kHz)...the other 99% of people will be interpolating.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
This will decimate ANY PCM file above 48khz. Any other phone has a DAC that will decode 48khz and below just fine.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Knowbody42:
Poweramp also has a single developer, and it takes a long time for updates to happen.

Opus support is only available in alpha build 703/704, not in the current version on the play store.

I'm curious how Stellio works on the V20. I used that before the poweramp alpha builds came out because it supports opus.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
Any PCM file over 48khz will also be decimated! If you want a 48khz, PCM only DAC, then you can purchase ANY phone!
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] bluelavender:
so if the file is "normal" lossless of 44khz , then it should be still fine, am i correct ?

Thanks
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
Yes, that's correct
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] kbrn:
Anyone tried Black music player EX? or Even the free version... it has an amplifier que actually works.

I compared it to Power amp and Black Music player EX (and free one) swept the floor with it.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] bluelavender:
Thanks man... so yah, i agree with you. i'm really wondering why LG didn't fully utilize the whole spectrum offered by the DAC. Why they cut off at 48khz ...hmmm.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Tidbits:
Are you sure you are using the right type of headset? So what I have seen and what I have read it does work, but you need the right headsets to do it.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] bluelavender:
milknez has found from the logs and confirmed by neutron player developer above, that lg player cannot play above 48khz
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Tidbits:
What headset were they using? From my understanding depending on what it is plugged in dictates what the DAC does.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] bluelavender:
sennheiser hd559. if it's locked API, i believe it's no longer earphone / headphone problem. Because neutron developer sees the same thing, that's why the neutron was limited only to 48khz.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Tidbits:
I just wanted to make sure on the headset. Seen a lot of people thinking their $10 ear buds would work.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] bluelavender:
Agree with you. V20 is very smart in this case
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
$10 earbuds SHOULD work just fine. You guys are conflating two different things; The DAC and the high-gain stage of the amp. The DAC should ALWAYS offer its full abilities no matter what is plugged in. The amp changes between high and low gain stage depending on the impedance of the headphone/earphone/speaker that is plugged in. DO NOT confuse louder with better.

---------- Post added at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 PM ----------

Because they did not fully test it and refused to give it to people who actually could.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Skripka:
No that is not what he found.

It can play above 48kHz ....but it resamples down to 48kHz. Which means dropping data. Similarly it 44.1kHz files are resampled (interpolated) to 48kHz.

Either process modifies the signal...but most often resampling down introduces noticeable distortion unless done carefully. Depending on what you're listening to and how good your ears are you may notice it. Stepping up is a tricky thing that takes a good process/software. Probably best to do on a desktop machine for now.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] @rbiter:
So shouldn't LG be on the hook for this? They didn't advertise it as 32bit/48khz. They advertised 32/384. Humongous difference. Just humongous. They advertised the 9218 specs but then dumbed it down. To me that is clearly false advertising and fraud.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] GaresTaylan:
Is this something that can be patched by LG or is it a hardware limitation? Anyone contacted LG yet?
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
You are 100% correct. The problem is finding an LG technical person in the US that will take ownership

---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 PM ----------

It can be patched. I have tried to contact LG, but I have not been able to find someone technical to own it.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] Andrew025:
Yep, I'm using Black Player.

The UI is much better than PowerAmp as well.

The only thing I miss from PowerAmp is the different eq profiles depending on the connection (speaker, BT, wired).
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] @rbiter:
Lawsuit would find somebody responsible. I know we don't need 32 bit 384khz as that is just plain overkill, even for studio monitoring, but it does make difference in the studio with all that headroom for the capabilities. LG advertised the phone as 32/384 and that is just useless no matter how good your cans and recording are, but they definitely need to patch it in the next firmware update to at least 24/96 minimum. They should bump it up to 24/192 realistically because there are some recordings that actually are recorded in that format, but I would venture the audiophile that wants the whole shebang is only a handful, because 'I'm an audiophile's attitude. But LG seriously needs to bump it to at least 24/96. I think the majority of users that listen to lossless (emphasis on that group, not the mp3 peeps) would be happy with 24/96. That is definitely usable and reasonable expectation from a phone that advertised the spec of DAC used and not the implementation. That is very shady on LG's part. If they don't fix it soon I will be writing some letters to attorney general's and maybe even consult a lawyer. That was one of four main reasons I bought this phone, which I didn't need as my note4 was still good enough to hold me over another year. Infuriating to me more so because I usually keep my phones around a year. I've used my note4 as a daily driver for 2 full years. I've bought a moto x pure, but of course that didnt have enough behind it to use as a daily driver but definitely good enough to use as a mini tablet when my other phones are charging, plus it makes a great backup phone. We all know that that was probably last phone Motorola actually put their fingers on into the design but it just suck that Qualcomm dropped the ball on 64bit chips and had to use straight up arm chips so we didn't get a true flagship out of it, plus being an unlocked Motorola you can basically use it anywhere in the world and at least make phone calls or send texts, with Motorola's legendary reception to boot. Anyways, LG better come with it. I only rip.my CD's into 16/48 as that is all that is really needed for good lossless music and compatibility reasons, but nonetheless I own and still occasionally but some higher quality recordings and LG gimping the phone e for whatever stupid reason lessens the enjoyment when I want to listen to those. Very stupid reason. They already used a high end DAC, it doesnt cost more to allow it to play 32/384. It probably cost them more money to gimp it intentionally. Fic it LG, or put fastboot back into our phones so we can root them and fix that 'problem' for you, if we can.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] planetbeen:
So I don't know anything about this stuff but just a thought... Do you suppose these limitations are also present on the B&O tuned / branded version of the v20? It would be interesting to see if someone with one of the Korean models has the same "settings".
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] mlknez:
The device that is plugged into the headphone jack has nothing to do with the issue.
[LG V20 Questions & Answers] planetbeen:
I'm not talking about the headphones. I'm talking about the model of the phone that actually has the B&O logo on the back of the phone which supposedly has some sort of special tuning that the U.S. Models didn't get.

A Google search about the supposed tuning available on Korean version leaves it a mystery. I know it was discussed when they were talking about the phone pre release. Maybe it was just confusion. You'll see some people asking a similar question in reddit too...

I still don't know about it. Just what I read and I kinda read everything. lol