yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Hi,

I have a H990DS and I'm not quite satisfied with the image quality. I had an LG G4 before and that's my term of comparison regarding the quality of the photos.

Advantages of V20:

- colour accuracy

- contrast

- wide angle camera

Disadvantages:

- sharpness

- clarity

- noise reduction

My biggest issue is the noise reduction LG is applying on the photos. It totally removes the sharpness and clarity of the photos!

LG image processing on the G4 was considerably better in this respect. I have made some side by side comparisons to check this.

All and all, it's a good camera, too bad about LG noise reduction being too strong.

I'd like to send some samples but I can't seem to able to upload them to xda.

Anyone knows how to change the noise reduction to an acceptable level?

Thanks

Edit:

It seems that the extreme noise reduction is applied up to ISO 400. After that it seems to dial down a bit because photos are sharper. I'm getting sharper photos at ISO 600 than ISO 50 on manual (albeit with more noise).
[LG V20 Real Life Review] HD2FORNICK:
Short answer is to shoot RAW and use Adobe Lightroom or some other program for editing. Also if you are getting sharper photos at iso600 then the camera could be shaking albeit slightly but ISO 50 should get sharper photos.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Thanks for the reply. I use lightroom and snapseed to edit the photos but to edit all the photos in raw is a lot of work.

I will try to upload some photos that show the discrepancy in sharpness between ISO 50 and 600. I don't think there was any shake involved because I still had a fast shutter speed. Ah, and I'm talking about the comparison between the processed jpeg directly from the phone in manual mode.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] gustav30:
Try shooting in manual mode but leaving all settings basically on auto.

I'm pretty sure the processing in manual mode is much less aggressive.

Also if you do a quick compare of the same shot, auto mode vs manual, the manual jpg is much much larger.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] Partyzane:
What are the camera setting do you use that the ISO 50 shots are blurrier then ISO 600?
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Did as you recommended but didn't see a discernible difference. There is a slight change in file size though.

I will test more.

I'm trying to upload some crops from the photos but with no success. The app always gives me an error when uploading.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Here:

Size : 76.27 KB

Maker : LG Mobile

Model : LG-H990

Focal length : 4.17 mm

Aperture : 1.8

Exposure time : 1/125

ISO : 600

Size : 43.40 KB

Maker : LG Mobile

Model : LG-H990

Focal length : 4.17 mm

Aperture : 1.8

Exposure time : 1/25

ISO : 100
[LG V20 Real Life Review] Partyzane:
What are the Kb sizes? Plus use the same exposure time 1/125 sec for both ISO 600 and 100 (preferably use ISO 50).
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Sorry, forgot to explain. These are crops to show the diference in sharpness but I can't upload them.

Will do more testing. :)
[LG V20 Real Life Review] Partyzane:
Do more testing outdoor during day time. There should be vertically no noise at iso 50.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
[IMG="Poignant"]http://i.imgur.com/kS3BJIe.jpg[/IMG]

Taken with my V20 and massaged some with LRM and SS.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Nice one! Really moody. ?
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Here's my last one. Processed with VSCOCAM.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
I'm finally able to upload photos! Here are my crops of comparisons in sharpness with ISO 100 and 600.

The ISO 600 has obviously more noise but you can read the letters better.

ISO 100 has no visible nose but there's a noticeable decrease in clarity.

I think LG changed their image processing policy in these newer models. My G4 has noticeable more clarity and sharpness than the V20 but with more noise associated. White balance and contrast has also changed quite a bit.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
The LG stuff is.. interesting. Their automatic mode applies WAY too much sharpening and noise reduction. And I think there's problems with the EIS on the V20. I disabled it andwas able to get much better photos when in certain conditions. I actually need to disable it again. I'd forgotten I hadn't reapplied that.

The V20 min focal length is also a lot worse than previous. My Note Edge could focus literally twice as close to an object. I could get actual macro shots without cropping or added lenses.

I'm really hoping they've improved things with the V30. If some of it is software related then maybe it can be ported over. I'm also REALLY curious to see the actual camera module for the V30. And see if I can hack it to work in the V20 with ported drivers.

---------- Post added at 05:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------

Thats really pretty :D

---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 PM ----------

oh, I need to put this out there:

The LG stock camera software and/or drivers like to crank the ISO up instead of dropping the shutter speed. I find I can get way better photos with ISO between 50 an 100 and setting a shutter speed that is a few points slower than what would give acceptable brightness and then go and lighten it in lightroom. I always try for the fastest possible shutter speed unless in very low light.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] CHH2:
For automatic photos, I'm finding the new Google Camera port to be the best option with HDR turned on. Of course, you're limited to just the main cameras but that's what I tend to use mostly anyway due to quality differences. I am intrigued by the better second camera in the V30 and to see if they made any advances in the camera itself.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
Ditto. The Google port is WAY better for automatic.

They bumped the MP from 8 to 13 for the wide angle and have supposedly improved the glass and removed a lot of the distortion that the v20's wide angle has. I want to see how it does. The sample pics I'm seeing online are nothng that impressive so far but they are just basic review photos. I want to see pics from someone who knows what they are doing.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] Partyzane:
Could you take two shots again but both with the same 1/125 exposure time? Plus clean the lens before taking shots :laugh:

You should be getting sharpness like this or even better.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Nice crops! I will try to make a similar comparison.

The lens was clean for sure ;)
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Humm, will test that.

Here are some of my latest pics, all edited on Instagram. The camera would be perfect without that excessive noise reduction.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] HD2FORNICK:
Those are awesome! :good

---------- Post added at 09:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 AM ----------

---------- Post added at 09:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 AM ----------

OK I feel like a total dumba$$. Somehow I cannot post any images and not only that, a new post keeps appending to the one I made earlier.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] HD2FORNICK:
Okay so this is the only way I know how to share images. :confused: Someone needs to teach me how to make them into clickable thumbnails. :D

Here are some taken in RAW and edited in LR. The only thing I would do is tap the area where I'd like the camera to ficus instead of using the cameras focus system where it decides to focus. In spite of me being sloppy with focus, the results are not that shabby.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] CHH2:
After watching a few hands on videos, I want to get my hands on one. Although, I need to look up more in depth information on the two cameras. The biggest problem for me for the V20 is that the wide angle camera uses a smaller sensor (physically, not just the number of MP) than the regular camera. Couple that with the smaller aperture and it sets up the wide to fail in comparison to the regular in all but the best light. The aperture on the newer wide looks better but if it's still a smaller sensor, it will still have image quality issues. (I just get over that by using the main sensor in pano mode instead.)
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
I'm trying Google Camera, Bacon Camera and Lightroom camera. I think the photo quality is a little bit worse than the stock, at least regarding the detail at pixel level.

It would be nice to try a port of the new camera app from the V30. Maybe it improves the image a bit.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
The FULMICS G6 port of the v30 camera has promise. It works on the G6 well. I tried it on the V20 but it gracefully exits with a "camera unavailable" error. So I think I can mod it soon to work. I just haven't had time to do much of anything lately.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Great! Maybe LG has changed the noise reduction policy in this version.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] Payal .N:
LG V20

The LGV20 sports a 16 + 8 MP Primary and 5MP Front Camera. The camera is good and it helps you shoot sharp detailed high quality pics with OIS.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Here's some more of my latest from instagram with the V20.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
I've found this link here on xda. It shows a comparison between the V20, Pixel and Iphone.

The V20 destroys the competition at low light at ISO 600. In good light I think the Pixel is the best. I see a diference in sharpness in the samples from ISO 50 to ISO 600. The ISO 600 seems sharper.

http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=5&idPhone1=8238&idPhone3=8064&idCamera2=300308
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
oh man, those are awesome :D I will post some of my latest ones in a few.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] gavsi:
guys which prefer lg g6 or v20

best camera ?
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
The V20 has a 16MP primary and 8MP wide angle. The G6 has dual 13MP sensors. So you will get a quality /loss/ with the primary but gain a little with the wide angle.

V20 = IMX 298 sensor

G6 = IMX 258

Both have an aperture of 1.8 for the primary. Secondary is f/2.4.

Both have pixel sizes of 1.12microns.

They perform similarly. The primary differences seem to be software improvement and whatever general sensor improvement the 258 has over the 298.

Here is a review with side by side photo comparisons. https://www.androidcentral.com/lg-g6-vs-lg-v20-flagship-worth-shelling-out-cash

So, honestly, it just depends on other features imo to make the choice. I prefer having the removable battery, higher MP count, and IR Blaster.

The v20 also has triple MIC recording. The G6 only does dual.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] gavsi:
thank you sooo much friend :fingers-crossed:
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin...t-galaxy-note-8-vs-xiaomi-mi-mix-2-vs-lg-v30/
[LG V20 Real Life Review] CHH2:
Intriguing. I wish the review was really done from how the end user would use each phone. I'm not sure it's fair to test the V phones as just point and shoots since that's not really how they're designed. The fact that LG is building in an entire manual shooting tutorial system just makes that even more so. I understand why LG wants to over expose but we all know that's easily overcome by just shooting manual. (Or using an alternate camera if you absolutely must shoot auto.)

I'm leaning more and more towards trying to figure out how to make this my next phone without giving up my V20 but not make my payments outlandish. (I just had to purchase a new car a few months back and haven't had car payments in years!) I'm really liking the idea of what is sound like a much better wide camera experience, although I'd still like to see a spec sheet on the actual sensors for the two. Hopefully, they aren't using the smaller sensor for the wide angle again. (Smaller as in the physical sensor size is smaller in the V20 than its main sensor.) This looks like a good improvement on a few fronts over the V20.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
Ditto. I bought a car recently and a house lol. I need to get my hands on a v30 to compare some stuff. I am planning on seeing if I can transplant the camera module from the v30 into my v20. It'll depend on how the connector is done and I'll have to Port over the drivers. But I think it is doable.

Oh! Have you tried the ported v30 camera app? It got fixed for the v20. In manual mode the shutter button disappears but you can still take shots with the volume keys. I'm still comparing output quality but I can tell you that the camera itself reacts *much* faster with the updated app. ISO and SS adjusts faster and the auto focus works better. All manual mode functionality appears intact too.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] CHH2:
No, I have not. I'm not rooted and I'm not planning on rooting any time soon. I think I'll just upgrade the whole phone. :P
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
If you get a v30 I'll be anxious to hear about it :)

Are you on Telegram?
[LG V20 Real Life Review] CHH2:
I am not. Just the "old school" stuff like Hangouts, etc. Looks like I have a bit of a wait until the V30 comes out for the US. Still no word. Hoping it doesn't become a fiasco like last time.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
If you get on Telegram, go here: https://t.me/joinchat/B0XGt0HBqf6edl1q6NhMYw

Mobile Photography group I started.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Here's my last one. Shoot in raw and processed in photoshop express.

I think this is the only efficient way to bypass LG overzealous noise reduction.

Until someone finds a way to edit the camera libraries to give us more control on how the JPEGs are processed.

Has anyone tested the V30 camera app to see if the image processing is any better?
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
I've tested it some. It *seems* like they lessened the sharpening some but the overzealous noise reduction is still there especially as ISO gets cranked. I'm hoping to work on making the v30 into a installable APK instead of a flash replacement (so we can keep both on the devices) and I will also be seeing if I cant totally disable noise reduction and sharpening or at least drop them to reasonable levels.

The V30 camera is REALLY nice otherwise, though. It responds faster than the V20 one and it isn't as ready to crank the ISO up as the V20 version.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] CHH2:
Unfortunately, the noise reduction on the V30 software is going to have to have more aggressive NR on it. I still can't find exactly what the wide angle sensor is (best info I've seen is that it is a "smaller" Samsung sensor) but the main one is a smaller than V20 main Sony sensor and yet it has more pixels crammed on it. This means more noise. Which means to get the images we are seeing out of the V30, there's a lot of software work going on. I'm a bit disappointed to find out it is a smaller sensor for something that's supposed to be imaging intensive.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Oh crap. I don't know why they changed their image processing from the G4 and V10. They were much sharper than they are now. Maybe that custom Sony image sensor for the G4 and V10 was better overall.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] CHH2:
Just did a quick look up and the G4 sensor was a typical cell phone camera sensor size made by Sony then tweaked in house at LG. Forgot how many megapixels on that one but I did see that the individual pixel size was larger than what the V30 will have and it still had a 1.8 aperture. The difference between the 1.8 of the G4 and 1.6 of the V30 is roughly 90% marketing speak points. At these tiny sensor sizes, hardly anyone is really going to notice. No idea what various kinds of voodoo we will see come out about the V30. I'm still curious about this phone but I probably won't "blindly" jump on a pre-order. I'm going to want some hands on.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
WTF, you are right. I just double checked. Its an IMX-351 which has 1.00 Micron pixels and the IMX-298 in the V20 has 1.12micron. The hell.. The 1.6 aperture is going to get negated by the loss of pixel area almost entirely. The new optics will help some and whatever improvements the sensor itself has will help. But damn.

That is really irritating.

Good thing I plan on using the v20 forever. heh.

This PDF has a nice table of sensors.

https://www.silicondevice.com/file.upload/images/Gid580Pdf_Sony sensors & Largan lenses_20160523.pdf

---------- Post added at 06:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------

I mean, you are looking at a a 25% drop in surface area (unless my math is horribly wrong *cough*). The f/1.6 versus f/1.8 aperture is, what, a 25% gain in amount of light caught?

I need better math skills to calculate this out. But at a glance it seems like you at best balance out.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] CHH2:
What'll really make one facepalm is that the IMX351 is also the same sensor in the HTC U11...... selfie/front facing camera. LG decided to pick a sensor that another company relegated to a front facing camera.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
...

.................

I did not realize this.

That's crazy.

Oh well. I will be sticking with my v20 for various other reasons so yet another strike against the v30.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] CHH2:
As to your second part of your post, f1.4 is only 2/3 of a stop brighter than 1.8. So we are only getting a half of 2/3 of a stop of additional light. We don't really get much extra out of that bump.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
Yeah, very little. Seems like a lot of it is just better optics in general. *sigh*

I would kill for a proper large sensor built into a phone.

The Red phone might be cool. I'm curious to see what sensor they use.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] CHH2:
Dammit! Jerry Rig isn't going to make this easy for me. https://youtu.be/dKk7F9uEWJ8
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
wait.. if it comes apart that easily I wonder if we could transplant the optics into a v20. *ponders*
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
Edited lightly with LRM.

Love manual mode.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Really nice ones! :good:

I think manual mode is our only option to get decent shots from this camera. Well, it's better than nothing.

---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

I don't think the sensor size and aperture are going to matter as much as LG's image processing. That will be the real issue here. The sensor and optics were fine since the G4.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] CHH2:
Sensor size and aperture completely matter. Software is just a layer of make up you put over the face. Some faces can be helped with make up, some can't. When you make a sensor smaller AND put more pixels on it, you're running up against physics and diminish how much software can really help.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
True, but they had a good sensor and aperture to begin with on the V20. The software noise reduction ruined the detail and sharpness giving the pictures a watercolour effect when you zoom in.

I'm fine with the sensor, aperture and optics of the V20 I just don't agree with the image processing although it may appeal to some (less noise in the pictures).
[LG V20 Real Life Review] ogie14:
Using lightroom. What do you think? :D
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
That's a really cool building :) Nice photo. There's coloring issues though. Want to upload the actual DNG and see what I can do with it? I'm curious to see how much can be corrected.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] ogie14:
I dont know how to upload such big size image so i uploaded it in drive. Feel free to use it. Im new in photo processing and i really dont know what i need to do. All your insights is greatly appreciated. :D *sorry for my english* https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwT2rLwPnl-FY1FnaEVOZFRQQlE/view?usp=drivesdk
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
Thanks

It really just depends on personal preference and what you like.

Here's a quick edit I did with Lightroom.

Where was that building? It's really cool.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] ogie14:
^It's in the philippines.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] ogie14:
"The Neighborhood"

ISO: 100

Exposure time: 30"

Post-process: Lightroom
[LG V20 Real Life Review] Partyzane:
Sydney
[LG V20 Real Life Review] 3mL:
[IMG="RAW edited with Lightroom"]http://i.pi.gy/5mZ7w.jpg[/IMG]
[LG V20 Real Life Review] pbedard:
Pile of crap
[LG V20 Real Life Review] Odenwälder:
Hi,

I've bought a new LG V20 and i'm quite happy with it.

The only thing that drives me crazy is the lowlight performance.

Does anybody know the reason for this unusual noise/artifact behaviour? There is always a strange line right across the photo in the top part of my noisy pictures. I've marked this on two example photos.

It always happens when i make pictures with long exposure and medium to high ISO.

Room pictue is 30 seconds and ISO 3200.

Sky is 30 seconds and ISO 600.

I don't have this effect in video mode or auto mode, only in manual mode (pictures).

On the one hand these are nevertheless bad pictures, but on the other hand this ist still something you're always looking for when making pictures.

Do you guys have the same "problem"? Whats the reason for this? Is this a software or hardware problem?

Thanks for your advice.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] 3mL:
My first thought is that the sensor is somewhat defective right where that line passes, but considering you're only seeing it in low light you could just ignore it.

It doesn't look like high iso banding.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] CHH2:
Sensor issue. If you can, exchange it for a new one.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
Some pics from the past 2 weeks
[LG V20 Real Life Review] 3mL:
Those are great!

What did you use for editing? Lightroom Mobile or on the desktop?

Here's a couple from the weekend, mushroom season is here.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
Thanks :)

I use Lightroom Mobile.

Love the mushrooms.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] CHH2:
That red door! And the cross members next to it.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
Some photos from this weekend. (10-21-17)
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
Some more.

The kid with the glow sticks is my niece. I took the same shot with the wide angle and the primary. Turned out pretty well. About 1.3s hand held exposure @ ISO 100
[LG V20 Real Life Review] slovakdirkovich:
great shots. have you edited them using snapseed or smth ?
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
I use Adobe Lightroom Mobile almost exclusively. I also only use manual mode.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] hotcell:
At last got my rooted environment stabilized...

I'd assume you are keeping ZSL mode as you are rooted. Could maka a summary about ZSL benefits & drawbacks (possibly rooting/kernel related). Is the speed benefit in Auto mode significant? How about focusing precision, etc.?

Thanks!
[LG V20 Real Life Review] flp11748:
Here are my last ones edited on photoshop express.

I only shot in raw now.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] Jaws4God:
Great Photo Quality.. i'm usually pleased with out pictures turn out.. plus LOVE the wide angle lens.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
Some new pics :)
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
some more..
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
Aaaand last group...
[LG V20 Real Life Review] andruyd:
Wow, Pic #2 looks so creepy good
[LG V20 Real Life Review] mookiexl:
2 questions. 1 did you shoot these in raw. 2 mind if I use a few of the as wallpapers. Awesome pics
[LG V20 Real Life Review] Partyzane:
Nice set of shots!
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
I dont mind. If you want originals I can send you copies for better wallpaper resolution.

I always shoot in manual mode (raw) and do editing in Adobe Lightroom Mobile. Occasionally I fix a perspective issue with SKRWT or use Snapseed for something. But I almost exclusively use Adobe Lightroom Mobile.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
On vacation in gulfshores! Here's a few pics so far...
[LG V20 Real Life Review] mookiexl:
Please share.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] HD2FORNICK:
Happy New year guys!

These are from the beautiful Dana Point, CA!
[LG V20 Real Life Review] Partyzane:
Some of my recent stuff. Shot in DNG, edited in Lightroom Mobile.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] Mattemaio:
Some of my shoots.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NqnA9Z1h0qZKA33A3

Edited with Snapseed or just google Photo.
[LG V20 Real Life Review] Partyzane:
Arrival
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
Some of my latest
[LG V20 Real Life Review] helf:
Some more new ones.