yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] whoofit:
Just look at all the risk you have around you. If you refrained from living you would be safer. I won't go into specific daily tasks, hobbies, habits and consumptions but sheesh. There are better ways of living life then being scared of the boogie man.

For some of us this device is much more than a phone that could be replaced easily by any flip phone of the last decade. It is the complete package. And now, to some of you, it is Unobtanium. Think I will Cling a bit, Thanks.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] evo4g63t:
Well the big failure here is Samsung's assumption that the battery was to blame, I am not sure they bothered to look at sny other causes. I mean its pretty easy to assume a battery problem when its the component that blows up. I think its a secondary cause to something else.

Wish they didnt rush the recall.

---------- Post added at 01:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------

Hey enjoy your phone that wont be supported 3rd party or otherwise.

Also do you not think about anyone other than yourself? I am sure you dont live alone so there are other people that can suffer for your uneducated choice.

I find it extremely selfish that people are only thinking about themselves when they decide to keep this Molotov cocktail.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] BozQ:
I think that's the beauty of the Android community. That there are a huge group of enthusiastic people who are willing to go beyond just being a consumer and push beyond the possible.

Samsung should be grateful that their Note 7 made such a huge impact that there are people willing to find out what went wrong for them.

What Samsung should do is to be forthcoming and be transparent about their investigations. They must try their best to explain where they went wrong. And then engage with their customers, us, and gather feedback on what compromises can be made.

For example, what if the actual cause of the explosions was actually the curve screen? And maybe most of us could do without it in exchange for stability of the battery? They could keep that in mind and design something with less curve or without the curve. Just an example.

Yes. Until Samsung reveals their findings, we're mostly speculating. Yes. The Note 7 is dead. And Samsung is refunding us back our purchase and a little more. But if we have the means to do a little investigations ourselves, then why not? Let's not discourage each other, this is not a competition about who's right or wrong either. Just be careful not to hurt yourself while performing your own autopsy.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] millicent:
Just like the device itself, battery protection wise, has a multitude of fail-safe mechanisms in place, it gotta be several things that can fail at once, in certain conditions.

We know that this kind of battery is extremely unstable and need to be regulated for under-voltage, over-voltage, over-current, overheat, too hot or too cold ambient temperature, failed cells, shorts, etc. There are mechanical, chemical and electronic protections, built in battery, controllers and chargers. Using a faulty charger cannot simply explain the issue alone. The software only cannot possibly explain it since that's the easiest and fastest to simulate, you'd think they'd have spotted this one long ago. It gotta be several of these combined with manufacturing (mechanical/chemical) defects that push the envelope of this chemistry stability and safety checks in place.

What I am trying to say, this Li-Ion chemistry issue is one of the most complex thing one would investigate. The only hope is for Samsung to share their findings on the matter. I think it's also important for them to do so in order for us, consumers, to recover some credibility in their products.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] CerveCesar:
Excellent research Belimawr?
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] calinormy:
It's official in Europe also!
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] Ryland Johnson:
That article is regarding the

Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge????

:eek:

Ryland
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] PapaWangsta:
hmm, this is interesting. Battery isolation plates.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/The-symmetrical-Note-7-design-might-be-precisely-why-its-batteries-are-failing_id86474
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] CerveCesar:
Hi Ryland, the S7 edge came into play because it has a similar Li-Ion 3600mAh battery to the N7 and fires have also being reported. My study concluded that overcharging and the use of less heat resistant Li-Ion vs Older models with Li-Po where not subject to fires ✌
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] evo4g63t:
That's exactly what I think it is, the casing putting pressure on the battery in such a way it is causing these fires.

Considering they've already tried replacing batteries on the device it certainly wouldn't seem to be the battery themselves that are the problem rather something else influencing the battery.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] CerveCesar:
Not so. Note 7 with batteries made and sold in China by Amperex Technologies Limited(ATL) Also reported fires, however there was no "explosions" reported. Even if the design was more rugged or high quality, still the overall design and materials are what we believe causes the fires. If a phone does not catch fire, it doesn't mean is exempt from risk
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] salmanaman:
The people who's phone caught on fire may have tried to charge the phone with a micro USB triggering the effect into motion.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] nabbed:
If you look at the actual real life statistics, in the three weeks of sales, only 96 phones exploded in the US out of 1.9 million units sold.

Therefore the actual rate of failure is 0.005%, not 0.1%. You are off by a factor of 20. Now, this is in three weeks, so the overall rate may be higher. There was also an article which claimed 0.1% rate, saying it was according to an unofficial source from Samsung. I don't know if this was actually confirmed though.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] aengus4h:
whether we will ever see a statement from Samsung on they analysis or if it will be credible remains to be seen.

An interesting read:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/13/leaked_samsung_doc_highlights_toxic_culture/?page=2
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] SeraphSephiroth:
Indeed I was mistaken it seems but you have simply reinforced my point. The failure rate is exactly what you would expect in any product launch. The only reason people care is because it's a more visible failure. Do you think the recall would've happened if, say, the fingerprint scanner stopped working? Of course not! People in this thread getting riled up as though an explosion is a certainty. You have the same risk as ANY other phone.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] br0adband:
Would your broken fingerprint scanner burn you, or potentially set your home on fire? Obviously not but if enough of them failed on the given device in a wide enough distribution aka worldwide then yes, the product would more than likely be recalled voluntarily for repair(s) of that functionality if it can't be fixed by a software update.

Think about it.

As for the risk what we do know is this: it's an absolute certainty that a given Note 7 could potentially suffer a catastrophic failure resulting in a thermal runaway condition which could end up with the device catching on fire itself and thereby causing fire/combustion to happen with nearby objects and materials.

In other words it's a definite possibility. ;)

And as for it being as risky as any other, that's not entirely true if any other device(s) don't have a visible failure as you yourself just stated. The very reason this IS happening (meaning the full complete worldwide recall of the Note 7) is precisely for that reason: it has a now visible history of failure worldwide and people are potentially in danger of physical injury or destruction of property because of it.

Man, you kids will do pretty much anything to rationalize whatever you want in any manner that suits your best interests, geez. :p
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] SeraphSephiroth:
Everything you buy has an absolute certainty that it could possibly explode. You buy a car, and there's an absolute certainty of a possible combustion. using that as an example is a pointless endevour. Also, Samsung want to mitigate the risk of a lawsuit which is fair and reasonable.

Also you addressed my point perfectly with the fingerprint scanner. No it wouldn't harm you, and there would be no mass recall. The only reason people are panicking about this is cause the failed component tends to be rather explosive. The stats are the same either way and to make the assumption that your phone WILL explode is preposterous.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] br0adband:
Hope that little bubble you live in is comfortable and has good network coverage. ;)
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] nabbed:
Bubble? You never heard of phones exploding? It happens all of the time! Phones explode because stupid people use substandard knockoff chargers under inappropriate conditions. For example, charging their phones with cheap USB-C cables in hot cars and in direct sunlight when it's 90+F outside.

There are literally tens of stories of this happening; it isn't a new phenomenon, it's been happening for years.

There are several probable stories about what happened to Note 7. No one truly knows the cause of this issue though. I read an article about how Samsung engineers can't really replicate the problem with new devices. I also read an article that old devices had a failure rate of 0.1%. There are no official stats to confirm or deny these reports. The real world data is as follows.

So far 5 devices caught on fire for recalled, "safe" devices, out of 2+ million. This is unconfirmed but widely circulated in the media . Samsung official number is that 23 devices caught on fire since Sept. 15, but that must include old devices since the first recall was not finished by Sept. 21, official projected recall end in the US.

What you are falling for here is mass hysteria. This second recall is most likely a PR problem, not an actual technical issue.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] br0adband:
As has been pointed out in multiple posts by multiple people there's a flaw in that line of thinking:

Samsung wouldn't just clear out of the blue ask that everyone on the damned planet that has a Note 7 please return it for a full refund and then on top of that astonishing act that's going to cost them billions they're also going to lose billions in sales that now won't happen and then on top of that they have to pay back not only the carriers that purchased phones from them to sell to customers but then they have to pay for all the shipping costs related to the recalled products being sent back and then in addition to all that they have to pay to have every last one of the Note 7 devices sent back destroyed completely and yes on top of even all that (what a freakin' pile that is, right?) they have to deal with the damage to their reputation, the loss of the Note branding because it's dead, Jim, it's really really dead and it's not coming back.

You think Samsung would put themselves voluntarily through all that I just mentioned and probably a whole lot more (because this situation is far from over) just to handle a PR problem?

Seriously?

And as for the bubble thing, it wasn't in reference to the battery in the Note 7, it was a reference to you living in a bubble limited by your own perceptions but whatever, you missed it so that's that.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] The Phone Company:
They need to ban the iPhone too. I mean who would be comfortable knowing someone was carrying a device so dangerous it has been REPORTED it spontaneously explodes even when off?

The iPhone is DANGEROUS people. Ban it! I read about it in the news:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...des-class.html
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] br0adband:
Just gonna keep crossposting that same text over and over again, ain't ya?
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] doc_loco:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36955531 with the note being so thin and battery being so tightly packed I have a feeling it's impact related that is causing the huge fire based failures. This guy with an iPhone fell off his bike and it burnt down.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] SeraphSephiroth:
Well ****! Lets ban all phones cause they might explode! That is a really pointless line of thinking.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] Boy Bisaya:
Because paranoia and sabotage are something Samsung cant fix. Those are just two of the reasons why Note7 catches fire.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] Ryland Johnson:
Oh I get it now. So the recall and multi billion euro loss on the Note 7 is not the doing of Samsung but the media! Here was silly me believing the recall and consequent financial hit was coming from the manufacturer vis, Samsung. I will go get my Note 7 back from the store who returned my cash because of media hysteria. You have made me a very happy bunny. I will let you know how I get on at the store. :rolleyes:

Ryland

---------- Post added at 12:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ----------

I wonder whats the standpoint of Samsung is on denial?
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] azzicles:
This is getting ridiculous...

There's a whole bunch of valid theories. Charging too fast, defective ATL cells, sabotage, bad circuit design or programming... Nobody will know the true answer until Samsung issue a report. If they do. Enough said.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] br0adband:
There were two different batteries involved: SDI made the original production run batteries, and ATL was contracted to provide batteries for the replacement models sent out - both batteries have suffered from failures.

And yes it could be a multitude of things and we won't know for sure till an official report appears from Samsung, probably in the next 6-8 weeks at most or maybe sooner.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] M100TX:
Not sure if this means anything but the man who had his Note 7 combust on the plane explicitly stated it had only been charged by wireless.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] aengus4h:
As has my own note-7 but then there are different Qi chargers able to supply higher currents, don't know which he used. Mine is limited to <1A as that's the limit on the power source to it and fast charge on the handset was disabled anyway for good measure.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] azzicles:
I know, the SDI batteries were defective. You can view the X-Rays online. The defect may have not been the cause of any of the first fires.

I'm saying there's also theories that the ATL batteries are also suffering defects. Just another theory.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] nabbed:
I presented you with simple facts. You reply is based purely on emotion and unwarranted assumptions.

Yes, of course, Samsung would choose to lose billions in a short term over suffering the consequences of bad PR:

1) Their revenue is $350 billion, and their profits are $22 billion annually. Losing $2 billion in pure revenue and $5 billion in stock value is an easy way out for a PR disaster of Note 7. It's a flagship phone, and a massive and continued bad press would ruin their brand. Literally for years to come.

2) Again, have you not seen the press? It has been a constant onslaught of bad PR for the last 3 weeks, all about their "safe" Note 7 being as unsafe as the old batch! It has been crippling! Even though it's not true, because the rate of failure of "safe" devices is around 10 times lower than that of old devices. Their new phones are literally as safe as any other phone, but the media keeps painting them as bad as the ones before the recall.

Ok. I'll offer my own emotional and unwarranted, opinionated analysis at the end.

They had a bad batch of batteries from SDI. The rate of failure was about 0.01% (2-3 week span), so they would have to test 10,000 batteries for 2 weeks to get a single failure and attribute it to a manufacturing defect. They rushed the phone, so defective batteries were in the initial batch of 2.5 million phones. 100-150 of them caught on fire (20-25% of those reports were fraudulent, according to Samsung.) They recalled them and they thought they dodged the bullet. Then 5 more phones exploded. Their engineers couldn't figure out what was wrong with the new batteries, so someone on top jumped the gun and decided to cut the bleeding. They discontinued the entire line. Better lose a few billion dollars in a short run than potentially lose tens of billions in the next 3-5 years.

Normally, recalls are a matter of revenue lost vs. lawsuit cost calculation, in the first approximation. But in the ultra-competitive and volatile market of smartphones, such bad PR could be the death of Samsung smartphone brand, IMO.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] clanderson:
Scientific disection of a mysterious hardware failure or giant circle jerk? One thing's for sure: we will never know.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] nabbed:
Just because Samsung doesn't release official statement doesn't mean that we can't speculate.

Maybe you cannot...
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] CerveCesar:
Nabbed, just a quick observation to your previous article response. The "bad batch" of batteries that you mentioned is what made the second recall a definite one. Fires were reported on both ATL & SDI manufatured batteries. These left the battery batch out of the real problem. Please read from the beginning of the thread. Several interesting pieces of information and research were posted. Our study has determined the failure to a chemical composition, overcharging and a sharp aluminum frame holder to have been the most likely causes of ignition.

To all Note 7 cowboys who plan to bring your illegal phone aboard mass transit; I recommend you to monitor your battery temp with "TempMonitor" widget and don't charge your phone more than 80% as the study showed 3500mAh for a battery sized as the 3000mAh one was another possible reason of ignition.

P.S. Samsung will NOT issue their findings within 6 or 8 weeks as someone stated. It will take at least 3 years for us to know the truth; when the Note 8 has been out trouble free and people have all new phones
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] nabbed:
Your entire premise that the second batch of fires was the same as the first one is unscientific and sensationalist. It is not supported by real world evidence!

Why are you posting here?
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] CerveCesar:
If you have proof otherwise, post it. If not, then you just watch too much TV and speak from places other than natural ones
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] SeraphSephiroth:
Judging by the fact the defects were both related to the battery, it's a safe assumption that there was more than one failing. The chances of both sets of batteries having the exact same defect are slight. In my opinion there's some kind of issue with the charger used, perhaps some kind of voltage spike that damaged some internals. I don't think we can attribute the failures to JUST the batteries.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] br0adband:
Ahem.

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=69138345&postcount=17

Because news of the recall(s) was more widespread as time passed and as the news was understood more people stopped using their Note 7 devices and started shipping them back which is more than likely - from a logical point of view - the primary reason for "sudden" reduction in the number of reports. Less people using them because they're actually not using them and shipping them back would be the exact reason for such an occurrence.

Samsung has reported approximately 1.9 million Note 7 devices sold in the U.S. (this information is presented on the 2nd recall info page the CPSC here) and reports from a website that tracks mobile device usage posted claims that about a million Note 7 devices were still in use despite now having two recalls in place.

tl;dr People get the news, they stop using and start returning the devices, the number of incidents drops because there aren't as many in actual use.

It's not rocket science, people.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] Boy Bisaya:
And I cant relate how posting that news contributes to the topic about why the device catches fire. Probably its just an FYI but then, I get it. I really appreciate the concern. And that's no rocket science either.

Back to the topic. I've run some series of stress test on the device. Processor, memory and battery intensive. The device gets warm. (Warm that will already trigger fear or paranoia to some). Mostly at the location where processor/RAM and the power management IC are located. Doing this in cycle (and in a controlled environment so as not to freak out the posers) probably I can accelerate the infant mortality of the unit. Assuming mine is part of the "ticking time bomb" as what others call it.

I cant pry open the device as I would lose the mechanical/ structural parameter of the evaluation. I would say that I look forward to when this device will "explode" (again in a controlled environment of course) in a slightly above normal use scenario so I can disect it and perform a better post mortem analysis. Until then, the cycle continues.

I am thinking of having one of the Note7 replaced with S7 edge so I can have a reference.

WARNING: The Note7 being referred to here is no longer considered as a consumer device but a laboratory specimen for tinkers, tweakers and wreckers. Whatever you do, whether you have already returned your Note7 or not, please DONT DO THIS AT HOME!
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] CerveCesar:
Excellent idea Bisaya. If you where to video record and post it to the public media would be great.

On a second note (no pun intended) the Galaxy S7 edge has also reported fires in a much smaller scale than the iSheep Media hated Note 7
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] CerveCesar:
I would also go as far as testing 2 devices. 1 factory and the other having swapped the Li-Ion for a Li-Po from the Note 5 and recording actual temps as the devices begin to heat up
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] Boy Bisaya:
I prefer to stay off grid and away from spotlights. I am not after for the number of likes either. I may share my findings to Samsung if they're interested and of course here at XDA assuming that by that time the petition to close all Note7 threads is not yet granted by the admin.

With regards to S7 Edge, yes I am aware of that though I consider it speculations or media hype. One thing is certain though, in our electronic age, everything breaks. The questions of when and how are what fuels my interest.

For that " iSheep Media" thing, let's leave them with whatever they do. I don't need to prove anything to anybody. I just need to prove everything to myself and share the same to those who may be interested.

---------- Post added at 08:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 AM ----------

Be cautious when switching batteries with different chemical composition. Some power management IC have different hardware settings for every battery type.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] br0adband:
I understand the device certainly does get warm at times, especially under use, but when one takes a moment to look at the small number of images we've been able to locate of actual Note 7 devices that have suffered the failure, the thermal runaway always happens in the same place: along the left edge of the device/battery (when viewed from the front).

If I had to guess I'd say because two different batteries were used in production runs and apparently both of them suffered the failures then now the focus should probably be on the device itself, that much I definitely agree with.

It'll be nice to finally get a full layout of what Samsung has discovered in their investigation but I doubt that's going to be seen anytime soon.
[Note 7 Questions & Answers] Belimawr:
the only thing in the device that could cause enough heat to create a fire or melt the phone is the battery, so no matter where the failure for it to be an "explosive" failure it will always have to be the battery, anything else would just fuse and the phone would stop working but look totally fine. so it is always a battery failure where down the line the short happens is the thing we don't know, if you bridge the contacts on the top of a battery you can make it explode so really the short could be just about anywhere in the device.