yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android General] Oswald Boelcke:
Better Battery Stats

For me, it’s was immediately obvious that I needed to know how and what is when draining my battery before I could commence reducing the drainage. In order to monitor drainage of the battery, I finally learnt about [APP][2.1+][06 Sept. - V2.2RC3] BetterBatteryStats (BBS) by @chamonix.

BBS serves my personal requirements the best; the application is well maintained and supported by a really active XDA thread. BBS is also able to run on non-rooted devices; however, some modifications via ADB are required. As an example, I attached a BBS log but please be aware it isn’t really informative at all because I used the phone while logging was running. Clear guidance is in this thread [GUIDE] 0% [0.0%/h] Idle Battery Drain on Stock ROM (XPosed & Amplify Required!) of @Celestial Fury how the BBS log must be taken in order to provide valuable information for a diagnostic assessment of your battery’s drainage, literally it has to be an idle log. It’s also very helpful to establish first baselines for your device and its current battery i.e. for you to known how much is the battery draining even with the phone switched off and the next time when it’s not transmitting/receiving at all (i.e. in airplane mode).

EDIT (2017-06-08): From my point of view, this procedure by @Davey126 is the best way to achieve a suitable dump file.

Just for completeness: Besides the log (dump file), BBS is able to provide you simultaneously with a logcat and dmesg file. You can retrieve the logs by pressing on the "triangle sign" located in the middle between the refresh and the menu symbols (see screenshots).

EDIT (2016-10-13): Idle Dump attached. Drainage of 1.5%/h i.e. a theoretical battery duration of slightly more than 60 hours, which is fully in line with my given objectives, especially under consideration that neither K-9 Mail and ChompSMS nor Signal are hibernated. From my personal evaluation and conclusion - however, I'm happy to receive experts' opinions, nearly no partial wakelocks but the "standard" (at least from my point of view) kernel wakelocks. As you see at post #1, my kernel's settings are a fair compromise between battery savings and performance. I haven't had any frozen screen or unintentional reboot for month, which is equally important to me as a good battery duration. I doubt that I'm able to further minimise kernel wakelocks. Final remark: Within our home WiFi network, the phone has a fixed IP address assigned respectively reserved.

EDIT (2016-10-17): If you experience issue with "net scheduler wakelock" maybe my post here is interesting to you?

EDIT (2016-10-18): Again thanks to @Wood Man as already so often (eventually I believe he knows the whole XDA by heart:)) I've become aware of another thread dealing with "net scheduler" by @spencetj. Maybe this helps you in case of any problems e.g. this workaround.
[Android General] Oswald Boelcke:
Greenify

Greenify supports my objectives by “hibernating” most of my installed applications. The screenshots below are supposed you to show you the applications, which I haven’t “greenified”. What Greenify does respectively is supposed to achieve can be taken from the XDA threads. Please be aware that the thread regarding [APP][4.1+] Greenify v2.9 Final (Updated on Aug.1) has been closed by @oasisfeng; instead he opened this new one: [BETA] Greenify 2.9.5 beta 3 (Sep. 21, 2016) [BETA]. Please check the Greenify Forum for applicable threads.

Further guidance, actually the one I initially used, is also available in this guide: [GUIDE][26-07-2016]Extreme Battery Life Thread(Greenify+Amplify+Power Nap) by @v7.

EDIT (2019-01-02): Meanwhile, hibernation on Oreo and later seems to work nearly perfectly that Greenify is probably unnecessary in conjunction with these Android versions. However, no own personal experience as our devices are still and will remain on Nougat.
[Android General] Oswald Boelcke:
Power Nap

Please allow me to phrase from [GUIDE][26-07-2016]Extreme Battery Life Thread(Greenify+Amplify+Power Nap) by [mention=5867207]v7[/mention], as I couldn’t explain it better: “Power Nap for Xposed is the SONY's stamina mod for non-Sony devices. When your screen is off, Power Nap maximizes your device's deep sleep time by stopping services, alarms and wakelocks from waking the device when the screen is off. You can get notification from the apps you've whitelisted.” The application itself is still available here:; however, the corresponding XDA thread [MOD][APP][XPOSED][4.1+] Power Nap for Xposed - Sony's Stamina Mode for all devices! by [MENTION=4504254]waylaidwanderer[/MENTION] currently seems not to be very active because waylaidwanderer didn’t contribute since nearly April 2015 anymore. Anyhow, the application does its job from my point of view, and I amended this post by some screenshots of my applications on the whitelist.

EDIT (2016-10-22): [MENTION=4504254]waylaidwanderer[/MENTION] is back on air.

EDIT (2016-11-03): I was wondering if PowerNap really has an influence on the battery drainage of my device. For this reason, I uninstalled PowerNap and observed the power consumption for about two days. Attached is last night's idle dump. Actually, I wasn't able to detect any difference to the times when PowerNap was installed. I know my device is more than idling when asleep but this is due to my personal objectives; however, even without PowerNap I got a drainage of (in my opinion) only 1.1%/hour. My decision is now: I don't re-install PowerNap 'cause I don't require applications I don't benefit from in some way - less apps, much better.
[Android General] Oswald Boelcke:
AppOpsXposed

AppOpsXposed is a permission manager on Android, and by that you’re also able to deny permission to “keep awake” of e.g. Google Play Services, Google Services Framework, and other applications; However, I again suggest to look into the recommendations at [GUIDE][26-07-2016]Extreme Battery Life Thread(Greenify+Amplify+Power Nap) by [mention=5867207]v7[/mention]. Actually, I used AppOpsXposed to re-check and to modify my advanced privacy settings of the ROM if required.

The application is available via its thread [Xposed][MOD][1.30.3] AppOpsXposed - AppOps for 4.3+ “[Xposed][MOD][1.30.3] by [MENTION=4477302]caspase[/MENTION].
[Android General] Oswald Boelcke:
Spare #1
[Android General] Oswald Boelcke:
Spare #2
[Android General] Oswald Boelcke:
Spare #3
[Android General] rodman01:
Wow and again wow!! :good: Congrats and many thanks for the time you spent

and the effort you did for such a contribution, the thread and the posts.

And also thanks for what you do and did for our beloved i9305 in this thread and all in all the other threads you participate. Thanks!! :good:
[Android General] Oswald Boelcke:
I'm surprised how many thanks you had available. Getting slightly embarrassed now; however, I believe it's my duty to share my experiences like so many others do on XDA. I learnt incredibly much from them. Superb community.

Anyhow, I not only guess - I know as soon as my wife left the hospital and is back home, I won't and actually don't want to spend the same amount of time at XDA as I did in the past.
[Android General] rodman01:
You are welcome and all my best to and for your wife and you. Enjoy your life together and when she is back home and you find the way back to xda from time to time, we would appreciate it.
[Android General] limjh16:
Wow, great thread! I'll be following this closely as I can only get 1.5 hours of SOT max with my current setup.
[Android General] carlitobahsoun:
thanks man....apreciate
[Android General] Oswald Boelcke:
If you like it I don't mind you'd hit the thanks button in the lower right corner of the OP and/or the post(s) helpful to you.

You won't definitely lose me. I get so much out of XDA and its great community; you made such a great tool out of my device, and I want to see RR "N" (despite not knowing if or when I convert - RR v5.7.4 Sammy is running so smoothly. Shall I really change a well running engine?)

I'm convinced I'm going to further decrease my battery's drainage as soon as I'm able to modify my objectives: No requirement for 24/7 framework operations (calls, text messaging, email, messenger). And this will occur when my wife is returning home.
[Android General] DB126:
Well executed write up with a nice balance of general guidance and specific detail. Thanks for sharing your experiences; should prove a helpful starting point for those seeking tighter control and improved battery life from their devices.
[Android General] Oswald Boelcke:
Update of OP

OP Updated: Amended post #3 by an idle dump from BBS, and amended post #5 by my Amplify settings.

I hope both is interesting to check.
[Android General] Oswald Boelcke:
Update of Post #3

Added a remark regarding "net scheduler wakelock" to post #3.

EDIT (2016-10-18): Updated post #3 thanks to [MENTION=4752536]Wood Man[/MENTION] I've become aware of another thread dealing with "net scheduler" by [MENTION=4866905]spencetj[/MENTION].
[Android General] HeaDShoTHuntR1:
Gave all my thanks for today

Great guidance, hope i can improve my batterylife and SoT

I already followed most threads you suggested but this one sums up everything very nice and easy
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] scritch007:
[IMG="LineageOS"]http://lineageos.org/images/logo-2.png[/IMG]​

This is our port of LineageOS 14.1 to the Lenovo K5 and Lenovo K5 Plus. .

#include
/*
* Your warranty is now void.
*
* I am not responsible for bricked devices, dead SD cards,
* thermonuclear war, or you getting fired because the alarm app failed. Please
* do some research if you have any concerns about features included in this ROM
* before flashing it! YOU are choosing to make these modifications, and if
* you point the finger at me for messing up your device, I will laugh at you.
*/

Device infos:

http://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/A6020/

Downloads:

LineageOS Official Weeklies

OLD LineageOS Unofficial Builds

OLD CyanogenMod 14.1 Unofficial builds

Initial bringup source sode:

ROM: https://github.com/boulzordev

LineageOS 14.1 for Lenovo K5, Lenovo K5 Plus

At first install, wipe cache and data and system

Install ROM

Install Open GApps arm64 (tested with the pico version)

ReBoot

When you're updating from a previous Lineage version:

Install ROM update

Wipe cache and Dalvik

ReBoot

Contributors

[MENTION=3445372]scritch007[/MENTION], [MENTION=4493088]Shreps[/MENTION]

ROM OS Version: 7.0.x Nougat

ROM Kernel: Linux 3.10.x

XDA:DevDB Information

[ROM][OFFICIAL][7.1] LineageOS/CM14.1 for the Lenovo K5/K5 Plus [VoLTE][Weeklies], ROM for the Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus

Contributors

scritch007, Shreps, daniel.stuart14

Source Code: https://github.com/LineageOS/android_device_lenovo_A6020

ROM OS Version: 7.x Nougat

ROM Kernel: Linux 3.10.x

ROM Firmware Required: TWRP

Based On: LineageOS

Version Information

Status: Beta

Created 2017-03-13

Last Updated 2017-05-10
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] scritch007:
Reserved
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] scritch007:
Working

Tested on A6020a40

Audio

Camera (Video not working this is a global old HAL Qualcomm issue. You can read about it on google)

Video

4G

RIL

Wifi

VoLTE (I don't have any volte network to test it)

Not Working

Not TESTED

Changelog

lineage-14.1-20170228-UNOFFICIAL-A6020.zip

FM Radio fixes, thx [MENTION=5786839]karthick mostwanted[/MENTION]

Some VoLTE/IMS blobs update, thx to [MENTION=5786839]karthick mostwanted[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5713232]chaubeyprateek[/MENTION]

Kernel upgraded to caf/LA.BR.1.2.9_rb.1.11 , thx to [MENTION=5786839]karthick mostwanted[/MENTION]

Some minor fixup on my side (defconfig, prop, README, etc.)

lineage-14.1-20170223-UNOFFICIAL-A6020.zip

Many merge thanks to [MENTION=5263483]daniel.stuart14[/MENTION]

Some device tree cleanup

Gyroscope sensor fixes

Keylayout fixes

Some Audio fixes

Vendor and blobs cleanup

Charger and power fixes

Some FM Radio cleanup

Termal Engine conf update

Product Model fix, thx to [MENTION=5713232]chaubeyprateek[/MENTION]

In-Call audio volume fix, thx to [MENTION=4666760]vgdn1942[/MENTION]

lineage-14.1-20170109-UNOFFICIAL-A6020.zip

ExFat support

F2FS readded in the kernel

Worked on Offline charging

Partial CMActions, we'll add a better one later.

cm-14.1-20161213-UNOFFICIAL-A6020.zip

Github Device

Github kernel

Fixed system and other partitions size

Added the LiveDisplay in the kernel

Divided light sensor returned value by 10 this is much much closer to what I get from my Moto G4 Plus sensor

xxhdpi density (tks to [MENTION=5962542]Dinokin[/MENTION])

Tethering seems broken

cm-14.1-20161115-UNOFFICIAL-A6020.zip

https://github.com/boulzordev/andro...e0e6f0d1c76dd2938af6f8adfe5a77dd34aa?expand=0

Bluetooth fixes

Imported new sensors libs. Compass seems correct now, tested a VR app, it seemed to work fine. I tested auto brightness and it's responding as I wish, but I actually don't use the phone a lot so even with previous version I wasn't annoyed.

Added l36 camera options

Offline charger mode readded. Seems to work fine, but you'll tell me

cm-14.1-20161110-UNOFFICIAL-A6020.zip

userdebug build, so no more flashing red borders. Applications will be optimised

video recording seems to work fine now even after a reboot

cm-14.1-20161109-UNOFFICIAL-A6020.zip

Updated to cm 14.1

Caf kernel based

camera picture + video working on A6020a40 need to wipe cache/data

Offline charger not there so do not try it.

Latest cm13 device tree's update

Support for a46 3G and a41 (tell me if it works fine)

cm-14.0-20160927-UNOFFICIAL-A6020.zip

* Initial Version in eng mode, so red borders will popup
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] Rodrigo Rodrigues:
Hey [MENTION=3445372]scritch007[/MENTION], Bluetooth is working here in my A6020l36.
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] sagar03:
Also working in A6020a40
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] BlueReptile:
GPS working on l36
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] sagar03:
ROM version is 7.0 nougat

---------- Post added at 03:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:02 PM ----------

Thank u for this ROM... please try to make to work voLTE and VR app
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] dark90:
did you have video recorder working with another app?
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] Rodrigo Rodrigues:
No, v?*deo Recording is not Working with any app...
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] obelich:
Thanks very much i wait for all working thanks very mucho for the rom :)
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] lytvynets221:
how many points has this ROM in benchmarks? who can test it?

sorry for my english ;(

---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 PM ----------

Hey [MENTION=3445372]scritch007[/MENTION] , change <<ROM OS Version: 6.0.x Marshmallow>> on 7.0.x Nougat
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] lucasdeeiroz:
I'm having some problems with Google Keyboard, can't change the language. Anyone with this problem or I am the only one?
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] gilzamir:
Yes, in my device, video recording works with Camus App.

Yes, in my device, video recording works with Camus App.
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] netship:
Thanks [MENTION=3445372]scritch007[/MENTION] testing on a46.

BTW i saw two error (unknown command) while installing.
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] dark90:
wich model do you have?
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] gilzamir:
Model A6020l36

A6020l36
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] keygenida:
Working/testing in A6020l37. I'll report any bugs later.
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] sullivan781:
Annoying blinking green led cause by emergency broadcasts. I'm in Brazil, so they use channel 50 for it, but I need to deactivate after every reboot. Is there any way to permanente disable this o option?
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] Ironmaniaco:
I'm actually using the PAC-ROM on my l36, but i came here just to pass by and say thank you to all devs involved on doing all those roms. You are amazing guys!

We know that you are joining forces to keep all source code "unified". :)
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] keygenida:
Testing on A6020l37. Bugs so far:

USB Tethering not working.

Trebuchet app drawer looks weird.

Rattling noise on speakers while booting.

Battery status style in Settings > Status bar menu doesn't work/change.

Green LED notification works, however, it's keep blinking even if there's no notifications/alerts. The only way to stop it is rebooting the phone.

A significant delay while opening the keyboard (stock and Google Keyboard). I'm not sure if this delay/bug affect other apps.

BTW, great work with the ROM! :D
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] BHARDIK:
hey thanks buddy for provide such support, bdw my question ? is this ROM work for A6020a46 3GB users too?? or if someone tested it? or i give it a try?

thanks for such beautiful work.

Regard,

Hardik
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] Harry8242:
downloading now....will tell u in an hour
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] BHARDIK:
downloading now too :P

Update :- not booting up on first try wiped everything even internal storage :) will try again and update result soon.

too eroor there {E: something }

Device :- A6020a46, 3GB RAM, FHD, Snapdragon 616 Variant Indian

Thanks
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] tschertel:
It`s an l36 variant.

I didn`t wipe data, just cache.

Gonna install it again with a full wipe.
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] rwolhin:
Camera app crashes on a41 and external camera apps can take photos but video recording doesnt work. I wiped all partitons before install and wiped cache and data one more time after installation. There was brightness bug, it was changing by itself. I used brightness patcher app from playstore and it looks like solved now. Log file for camera crash is in attachment. Thank you for your great work.
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] BHARDIK:
Update :- not booting up on first try wiped everything even internal storage will try again and update result soon.

too eroor there {E: something }

Device :- A6020a46, 3GB RAM, FHD, Snapdragon 616 Variant Indian
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] Harry8242:
i got that error too.....but everything worked fine for me. the only problem i face is that the red frame pops up every now and then

---------- Post added at 11:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 PM ----------

update : sorry i didnt know that there was a fix for the red border problem ...anyways thanks
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] tschertel:
Did a full wipe and sim card is working again.

Camera still don`t work for videos.

Red border still present. Have to edit build.prop.
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] BHARDIK:
any particular steps??? and u have same device as well? also did u flashed gapps directly after it ?or not?

i flashed rom

then

supersu

then

dolby and reboot wait for 10 minutes not cm logo even shows up
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] yug2196:
Red border blinking problem solved or not.please tell me.

I have 46 2gb variant
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] plaxdone:
red border and burning... l36

also my phone froze in config screen, after selection of language

i keep testing
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] lucasdeeiroz:
This is not a bug. Please, search and read the thread.
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] cenelyanto:
report bug cm-14.1-20161109-UNOFFICIAL-A6020.zip

sometimes bright screen itself BUG FIX THERMAL

import contack sim BUG

BLUETOTH BUG

File Manager not acces SD card

please add theme from base MM :p
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] punkzerboy:
The same and others

Get the same error, but k5 boots, then I realize some features that work in cm13 doesn't work in cm14.1 and some features that doesnt work on cm13 now works xD

e.g.:

Camera doesnt work for videos or pictures, after a clean install (in cm13 works stock camera for take pictures and Open Camera to record videos)

Screen brightness bug is back like terminator (in cm13 build 05.11.2016 works)

Well I'm gonna wait to next week to test next build

(my device a6020l37)

---------- Post added at 17:01 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------

You need to open build.prop

search for: ro.build.type=egl

change to: ro.build.type=user
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] BlueReptile:
I faced a bootloop after flashing supersu, maybe its it.
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] lytvynets221:
[MENTION=3445372]scritch007[/MENTION] , the last update works fine for me , only sound afret reboot, video recording doesn`t work in stock camera app and autobrightness works so bad(

Thank you very much for your work!

A6020a46 2GB
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] cenelyanto:
cm-14.1-20161109-UNOFFICIAL-A6020.zip

Bluetoth not work file manager and import contac sim thank best rom
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] sullivan781:
Bluetooth is not working here neither is the video recording. L36 variant.
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] clebersleite:
Need to wipe cache/davilk? not work here :)

You need to open build.prop

search for: ro.build.type=egl

change to: ro.build.type=user
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] clebersleite:
Sorry, On remount my /system in RW it work.

tky very much :D

---------- Post added at 02:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 AM ----------

After change build.prop

search for: ro.build.type=egl

change to: ro.build.type=user

The red bord stop to show but my camera stop to work :) LoL

---------- Post added at 03:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:43 AM ----------

: : After change build.prop:

search for: ro.build.type=egl

change to: ro.build.type=user

---> The red bord stop

Ps: My camera stop to work LoL, so....after wipe / Dalvik cache and cache, it back to work with gallery.

Working:

3G/4G

GPS

Wifi

SDCard and modes to connect on PC

Sound / Headphone / Speaker

Youtube: 1080p working

Netflix: Working

Call/SMS

Video Record ( With Open Camera)

Not Working:

Video Recording (Stock App Close on change to Video.....Permissions?)

Bluetooth don't work

Auto Brithness: stranger :D

Model: A6020L36
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] adinechin:
If you ask for help without searching, and without following the forum's organization and rules, yes this is the type of answers you can get...
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] chorrer:
Hello,

i am going to ask something and please dont start shooting .

I am trying to find a stable rom for lenovo K5 plus 2GB RAM , can you please point me to one?

I dont care about edition (lolilop, oreo, etc) , i just want it to be stable and to get out of the idiotic stock rom that i have.

I tried to read the thread but my english is not my native language and i cant understand which rom and version to download.

Thanks in advance!
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] eurodiesel:
well, you posted in the wrong thread, so you deserve to be shot:cowboy:

any nougat should be stable and USE HELP THREAD FOR SUCH QUESTIONS

Bang! you're dead.
[Lenovo Vibe K5 Plus ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & O] chorrer:
Thnx for the reply but i really tried to read all treads related and i cannot find any rom without bugs (at least as far as my english helps me read) .

Furthermore i had ressurection rom in my old phone and i was very pleased with its perfomance.

In my understanding ressurection is cyanogen and now lineage or am i wrong ? ...this is the reason i wrote here

Sorry again for the unrelated questions , just point me to the correct thread and i ll be out of your hair in a heartbeat :o

Ps: You missed by an inch!

EDIT: Ok , now i see what you meant about help topic, many thanks!!!!