yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 6  General] Lawlrus:
[MENTION=5495818]lordneopt[/MENTION]

That's not the way i read it.

Firstly there are rumors that google is looking to buy HTC, which would lead to them choosing their own hardware. Even if they don't buy HTC I still read it as they were going to purchase the chipsets etc, and build their own phones from the ground up. The assumption that they are going to still do what they do with nexus units is silly, why would they buy pre made phones ?

Another thing being them buying Motorola and then not being happy with them so they sold them off, they want to make their own phones in its entirety.

And no, they do not have full control over nexus units, that's the problem, and the reason why android is trash at optimizations unlike apple.

Sure google has some say with the design and crap, maybe the soc being used, but google didn't tell lg what chipsets to use in the 5x, or the camera, or the radio.

They are tired of not being able to optimize phones because they can't control these things. I'd be tired of trying to debug and make things run well when OEMS decide to use **** hardware.

I don't have source on any of this, maybe you do to back up your claims? This is how I've been taking things by reading into what Google is doing, and if they are not planning on doing what I stated, they truly are mentally retarded, because the fact that these phones run about half assed compared to apple, when they have significantly weaker hardware is disgusting. They need to worry less about big screens and hipsterish cute metal frames, and start optimizing the damn os.
[Nexus 6  General] lordneopt:
Google handpicks the components of the Nexus devices, they always did, even the last ones they handpicked camera modules and other things to make development of the software a more easy task (but hey, different prices different components on 80% of the things as it is logical). But then again what chipsets? This is not a motherboard from a computer with different chipsets, you can pick a certain number of things and the rest is pain simple to pick as there are not many difference over the accelerometer, barometers, vibration motors, etc manufacturers. The radios are pretty important but Google has control over that, that's why they some times release two builds of each for the time carriers take to approve newer radios. And remember cost vs value with Google devices started to be not so important with the One, then they changed their minds when they saw they had a better future selling cheap hardware devices with plain simple software with the 4 and 5 and then they changed their strategy when Sundar Pinchai started to mess up with Android.

The rest is just nonsense, Google will not optimize anything better being them to build at a factory or owning an OEM (and no, they have zero interest in this, Motorola was a way better option than HTC, HTC is dieing for years, their products suck as they always did).

The problem with Android being so sluggish at a time is the crappy VM it operates. It does make it very adaptative but it also makes it very sucky, Android will never have the same level of hardware vs software integration Apple has.

There will not be some magical integration with the Pixel devices. And i say again, this is a desperate move to stand out in the crowd as Android as a brand is dieing behind all those skins. Oems don't even care anymore to stand out Android as a top notch feature, and Google has to get into the train.
[Nexus 6  General] Lawlrus:
[MENTION=5495818]lordneopt[/MENTION]

Less you have source that google has control over the components, I don't believe it.

Every single headline about it anywhere states that they want to decide the thing from the ground up, and contract out the work, not have a partnership where OEMS have a choice, which is what the nexus line was.
[Nexus 6  General] ghost010:
Better you have some prove on that Google wants to be the next iPhone.. There Have been litterally zilch reports on Google doing it for that reason.

Optimisation has not even been mentioned.

The only thing mentioned is a skin with "Nexus" exclusive features. No more work on asop, no more Nexus.. no more open.... If this is the end of the Nexus line as what it stands for, it's the end for android for me... And smartphone in general. I already hate the Google bloat we get.
[Nexus 6  General] zelendel:
I don't see Google making the hardware. Not yet at least. What I took from the talks is that Google will start with the software. No longer will it basically be aosp with gapps. It will have features built on top of the os just like any other oem distro.

Sooner or later they might buy a company to make the hardware. I don't see it coming in the first line of pixel devices. Maybe the 3rd. It will take a bit to get things worked out. Many issues right now with the trade commission and red tape.
[Nexus 6  General] SamuriHL:
Kind of. It was pushed to some of the people running the preview but was not released ota over m builds. It was weird. And still is with 90t and 90u build being pushed ota to different people. God help us if our builds are that messed up lol
[Nexus 6  General] NLBeev:
You could be right. But the distance between users and Google will grow.

Money will come in the first place, not the quality.

We can expect more expensive phones and less quality.
[Nexus 6  General] H4X0R46:
Do you know for sure with a source that aosp won't be updated anymore? If they don't have aosp, that would be very bad for the Android modding scene!
[Nexus 6  General] khanam:
From what I've read, there is no difference between the hardware strategy for the nexus and pixel product lines. They seem to be making nothing except a custom ROM on top of base android.

What is the source for your belief that they will exercise any further control over hardware? Any links to substantiate it? Besides, they already owned Motorola and gave it away. If hardware was in their vision, there would be other signs. HTC is actually extremely weak financially. But that alone is not reason enough for Google to buy it.

On a related note, Google seems to have a very weird and confused mobile strategy. Why did they need to rename nexus to pixel? Why a custom rom? Why not stick to base android? Why allo and duo instead of making hangouts a be all and end all product? I'm not sure I, or most consumers for that matter, understand much that they are doing these days. If they think this is how they will catch up with the iPhone, I'm afraid I disagree.

I am not a tech guy but I'm more involved in the investing world than most here. None of their recent moves have made any business sense to us. It's a bunch of standalone products with no particular strategic thought. For a good laugh, please read about the nest debacle and just follow the clown who is the allo product manager on twitter and the arguments he ends up in online.

This is not a company with a cohesive vision. It's just a bunch of science experiments being done by a collection of geeky idiots whose mistakes are being masked by the scale and deployment that exists already.

I wouldn't give Google too much credit for deep strategic plans. Their business strategy is to throw crap against the wall and see what sticks. It's like they're a VC for their products, not a mature business.
[Nexus 6  General] zelendel:
It's already been happening. If you watch the base source code for android and compare it to Google's release you will notice things are fixed in Google's release but the aosp package has not been touched in years.
[Nexus 6  General] doitright:
Shouldn't that be "Nexus 3: ..."?

---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

You may have missed the memo, but Android and Apple market share crossed paths WAAAAAAAY back in 2010. There is no "catching up" when you command 86.2% of the market.

Two things to say about this;

1) It seems to be working for them, once again, 86.2% market share.

2) Thats kind of the POINT of google, they AREN'T just sitting back and trying to stick with what they think people want, you remember what happened to blackberry? You see what is *HAPPENING* to apple? (now down to 12.9%, and note that their PEAK was only 23.8%)

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:43 PM ----------

Grapes and oranges though. You aren't comparing the actual OS, you're comparing the things plunked ON the OS. Things like web browser and messaging applications, and media gallery.
[Nexus 6  General] lordneopt:
Google always brought engis from the company that is building a Nexus device to their campus to redesign an existing device according to Google needs. There was an interview where Pinchai said this.

Google always controlled and forced the internals of the devices, however before this bald move they simply did not design those. Google would simply rely on those oem engis that were sent by manufacturers to the campus so they could redesign those internals of an already existing phone that they (Google) picked up as platform reference showcase for the next iteration of Android. In the end Google designing them and sending them so a oem manufacture them leads to nothing in terms of reliability or even stability of the Nexus program.

Google only wants to create a new brand under the Android name because the Nexus one was not a comercial brand. Remove all references to the oem that builds the Pixel and stick an "aosp" like skin and launcher over Android to do this. Clean and leave only the Google logo so people know who's phone is that. And i hope i'm wrong but i do believe that this new Pixel devices will not be so developer friendly, they will at least try to lock it down a bit more like other oems do.

Google is scared it will loose control over Android and it vanishes over to oems like Samsung and their horrible skin, that's why they enforce stupid cosmetic measures so people know that device runs Android (that idiotic "Powered by Android" boot message).
[Nexus 6  General] khanam:
Profits matter in real life, not market share. Tell me what's the market share of profits in the mobile space made by Apple versus absolutely every single android manufacturer put together? No one in the android world makes money except Samsung and even they will suffer due to the note 7 mess. 86.2% with no profits is a useless stat.

Let me give you another analogy. 95% of all kids go to public schools. Does that mean private schools have lost? No, that's not true. Private schools are a premium product that few can afford.

Android is mainstream, it has allure to the techies. The only reason Apple's market share is not higher is because they are a premium product. No one except geeks like us will pay premium prices for android devices and that's because we want it to succeed - but there are very few of us. The regular folks think of absolutely every android product as low class.

There was a term we used on wall street when I was trading bonds. "We will make it up on volume" - it elicited laughter all the time because that strategy has never worked. You either make money on every sale or you keep digging a hole for yourself. Given that the Chinese are making android devices, expecting android manufacturers to make substantial profits is illogical.
[Nexus 6  General] adm1jtg:
Its like we are back to the days of palm vs blackberry vs apple. Palm was the phone with the most app selection and the choice of techies for the most part. Apple was still a niche market and Blackberry was very locked down and restricted with little real choice in hardware or software.

In short blackberry back then stomped palm out of existence and apple pretty much was unaffected as their market share and target audiences were different. Android made a good showing and Blackberry made some very poor decisions and Android came to power but again apple was still there in the background.

I dont think apple will ever become the top market share nor do I think thats their goal. They target the high end dare I say elitist crowd typically and that makes them money. There has never been a "cheap" apple phone or computer for that matter and I dont see that changing.

Android fills a need for the lower and middle areas primarily. Google is crazy to think that even a die hard techy would pay $650-$750 for a new pixel phone. MAYBE Samsung on the super premiere models could pull that off but pixel simply doesn't have the specs and hardware to backup that price. The nexus 6 when it came out was a hard sell but at least the phone and components were pretty high end. I just dont see this with the smaller overpriced pixels.

Like so many others I just dont understand googles logic. They take the nexus line which is popular primarily with the tech community, add bloat and more proprietary stuff that is not in aosp and raise the price higher then it has ever been. This isolates the techies from the device and doesn't replace the lost techy group with any new target audience. Apple users are unlikely to switch as android in general still has the same issues it always has had and now the tech community is also alienated based on pricing and closed source code. Google what were you thinking?
[Nexus 6  General] doitright:
Big bunch of words that says absolutely nothing useful, or is a repetition of someone's DOWNRIGHT LIES.

First off, APPLE is the ONLY cellphone manufacturer which happens to be a fully AMERICAN company. You know what that means? It means that they have to report EVERYTHING 100% of their global business to the IRS. Other brands only have to report the USA **PORTION** to the IRS.

Second, everybody's accountant does their work differently, in order to support the objectives that matter to them.

Third, apple accounts for the full process from the top right down to the shovels digging silicon out of the dirt, whereas other brands are accounting only for the high level and leaving out the 3rd parties who are also profiting from it, for instance, when MOTOROLA measures their profit, they subtract the full cost of the QUALCOMM SoC in order to calculate their NET. Qualcomm is a component manufacturer, not a cell phone manufacturer, so all of THEIR profits in this endeavor is not added in.

So before you parrot some kind of nonsense like this again, try using your head for a moment and thinking it through. Anybody who suggests that apple is making the majority of profit on the global cell phone business is either misinformed, or is lying.
[Nexus 6  General] Candy[MAN]:
Android has something big for tomorrow....

https://twitter.com/Android/status/779364727671709697
[Nexus 6  General] doitright:
First off, palm and apple didn't coexist. Palm killed itself before apple sold its first phone.

Nope, blackberry IN NO WAY contributed to palm's demise. Palm did it to itself when they restructured their software division away from their hardware division. Soon as that happened, the two sides started fighting and both died. THEN blackberry got big, because they had NO COMPETITION. Blackberry's product was CRAP (and remained that way forever) and would NOT have been able to compete against palm if they had kept their act together.

I'd be more inclined to pay 650-700 for an Android phone than $1000+ for an apple phone. In fact, I, and MOST people, would be more inclined to pay $2000 for an Android phone if the only alternative was a $1000 apple phone.

Where do you get the "higher than it has ever been" from? The Nexus 6 was a BLOODY EXPENSIVE phone. Still sold though. Samsuck phones are also bloody expensive, priced the SAME as apple phones, yet samsuck isn't going for, as you say "techy group" -- they're going for people who don't know squat about technology or OWNING THINGS.

Further, Google has NEVER sold a Nexus that is "pure AOSP". Even the ADP1 had gapps! Nothing is changing here.

---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:12 PM ----------

Before you freak out over nothing... https://androidcommunity.com/google-play-indie-games-festival-happening-on-september-24-20160830/
[Nexus 6  General] holeindalip:
Probably buying twitter
[Nexus 6  General] khanam:
I honestly cant stop laughing.

Do you think the taxable income reporting by Samsung, for example, is ** ONLY OF THEIR US INCOME** ? Have you any idea how the companies actually report financials? I am from the investment world. When you are a money manager we can compare notes. Until then, please consider this to be a lecture you would get at a business school....

Links for lecture #1:

http://www.androidauthority.com/apple-has-95-of-smartphone-profits-656093/

https://www.statista.com/chart/4029/smartphone-profit-share/

http://fortune.com/2016/02/14/apple-mobile-profit-2015/

Companies report the global income from their operations to the regulators in the jurisdiction of their domicile. These studies I quote measure their global income not just US income reported to the IRS. Almost all major android manufacturers have listed shares. In order for these shares to be appropriately valued, they must report actual income not some hypothetical number based on convenience. If they under-report income, the value of their shares will collapse and they will have irate investors. If they over-report, they will have issues with the accountants and authorities. Do you also think the Korean tax authorities will let say an LG under-report income so they could minimize taxation? And don't you think it will be an issue with investors who clamor for profits?

Allow me to ask you a very simple question, do you actually think you know better than Fortune, WSJ and numerous others? If yes, then you should be a billionaire with an island. I am neither - I am happy to just be a bright parrot.

Links for lecture #2:

https://9to5mac.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/cszmryovyaawd8n.jpg?quality=82&strip=all

Do you also actually think apple manufactures every single thing in their phone? They only design a couple of additional h/w components in house (I am certain they do not own a foundry to manufacture the chips) compared to most android manufacturers. Almost all the iPhone components including the GPS, the radio chips, the body, the screen, the battery.... everything is outsourced.

*****

I am afraid you are not knowledgeable to comment upon most of the topics mentioned in my post. You accused me of wrongful claims. Do you have absolutely any data/links that can substantiate any of your claims?
[Nexus 6  General] NLBeev:
http://fortune.com/2016/08/31/apple-eu-tax-fine/
[Nexus 6  General] Candy[MAN]:
That is not it. Tomorrow is Android's 8th Birthday. Let's see what they have in store. Not counting on Nougat for the N6 but you never know.
[Nexus 6  General] peekie:
Phone makers should be forced to give a 2 year upgrade from the date the phone is removed from sale , I bought my nexus 6 in march this year so expect it to get updates for at least another year , apple do the same as soon as they remove an iPhone from the list of phones they give updates that make it so laggy it's just junk and you have to buy a new phone , that's business but one day people will wake up and just not buy again , least with android phones you can roll back the firmware if your phone becomes a snail , something apple owners cannot do , so I guess that's a plus point in androids favour , I have apart from my nexus 6 an iPhone 5 and iPad 3 , both freeze and crash alot , my newest iPhone 6 is also showing lag in iOS 10 , but my favourite phone is my nexus 6 as it's a beast , big screen , great sound for movies and does what I want , it runs the final dev 5 and it works perfectly so I don't see why Google has not updated it to the final version , guess they have forgotten our phone , so I will wait and hope it comes soon .
[Nexus 6  General] holeindalip:
Are you forced to upgrade your phone on ios? I've never had an iphone so idk
[Nexus 6  General] peekie:
Yes you do get forced to update as you come across apps that won't run on an older iOS , would just be nice to have the choice to go back as my iPad 3 was so fast when I bought it and now it's too slow ,

We all will have to wait for the 7.0 upgrade on our n6 or just use the last dev 5 build which works perfectly and I am happy to wait ( but not forever ) as I have a sort of 7.0
[Nexus 6  General] FCORivers:
You, Sir, made me literally laugh out loud. [emoji106]
[Nexus 6  General] Ind33d:
I agree if google made two phones :p

1. Nexus phone - pure vanilla os -> only basic software; no fancy features; affordable price <- market target for apps/rom developers; geeks; tech savvy.

2. Pixel phone or whatever you want to call - beast spec; vanilla - skin hybrid os; full of features; premium price <- market target for mainstream phone user; apple user

Not two phones where difference is just different screen size. That just pure laziness but still want milking customer money. :rolleyes:
[Nexus 6  General] H4X0R46:
I agree that they should have kept Nexus as well as this new Pixel project. I'm not sure what I'd choose because they aren't even out yet and I don't know what they will be like, but I'm leaning towards Nexus still! Sad that the Nexus program has to end. Maybe it won't be so bad....... Fingers crossed.
[Nexus 6  General] H4X0R46:
So theoretically this means all ROMs that are made with newer Android builds are sorta just hacked together using old source? Let's say, a Nougat ROM would have bits from KitKat? (Example of course)
[Nexus 6  General] istperson:
I'm sure it has. But only because they didn't write every new Android version from scratch. But saying they are not developing AOSP is simply false. Every security update brings new code to pull and merge. So I know this first hand. As for the AOSP version of the Google apps, who cares, everybody just flashes the gapps anyway.
[Nexus 6  General] zelendel:
Those security updates are a joke most of the time. Just look at the some of the packages and had odd bugs that were fixed. A good one would be the live wallpaper picker. It had a nasty bug that Google fixed but the aosp package was not fixed.
[Nexus 6  General] istperson:
You mean you checked the diffs, and decided it was a joke?

And what live wallpaper picker bug? Mine works fine, I presume, I've tried it, and it works. Never use one.

Use the new Pixel launcher and wallpaper picker, by the way.
[Nexus 6  General] zelendel:
Yes I look at every update before installing it. I am not one to blindly follow. Most of them are exploits that most likely never see the light of day as it is just impracticable.

I Would have to look it up. Most of our devs use a fix that was developed here for a long time now. If you really want to know then you have to look and really pay attention to the base source. This one I remember due to the fact that I do use KWLP so it being messed up and not working right was something that got my attention.

Um no I would rather not use the Pixel anything. I use the same launcher I have for years and have no reason to change it. Let alone to that one.
[Nexus 6  General] istperson:
Okay, so Google shouldn't make them?

I use the most basic Launcher 3, and it has no notable bugs. And it picks wallpapers, both static and animated.
[Nexus 6  General] zelendel:
When you look at all the other issues with the base os. Maybe they do need to spend a bit more time on things that make more of a diff then some obscure exploit that will never see any use.

Well as I never use that launcher so can't really say, nor does it matter the package is deeper then the launcher. It just interacts with it. I'm sure it appears to work just fine. Depending on how deep you look. Not to mention you will not mostly see it anymore as like I said. Everyone already fixed it in their roms and apps. It's just missing from the pure aosp code.

Just look at the base code and when the last commits were pushed for alot of it. No point in debating the fact.
[Nexus 6  General] istperson:
You're a bit vague here. Which part of the base os?

I'm not using anybody other's custom rom. I use mine, and it's 99% vanilla AOSP, and what isn't I made the changes myself.

Also which repositories are you refering to?
[Nexus 6  General] adm1jtg:
Apparently all we get is a picture
[Nexus 6  General] wase4711:
another example of how silly it is to think you are actually getting "news" on Tweeter...