yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
Yes, I've decided to take on a mammoth task, welcome to "ROSS"... "Replacment Operating System Structure" for Mobile phones & PDA's =]

The website is located here!

Yeah, you all think i'm crazy "hang on, you can't port Android to X50v!"

Well, not YET, but with help It will be done.

What is android you may ask?

Android is google's open source platform for Mobile phones and PDA's =]

So yes, I plan to create a operating system for X50v to replace WM6 with and allow users to develop/change bits of the operating system they don't like.

There will be a few "flavours"

Lite: Basics, very Basics, just Wifi/bluetooth support, a simple GUI and No applications (just a few settings). This free's up a LOT of RAM + ROM

Medium: The one "hopefully" most people will use, This is the standard one, basic office applications (replacing all the standard WM6 ones) a few games, decent GUI etc.

Heavy: The one that leaves least RAM and ROM available, the one with the most applications + usability, although it may lag a little.

Of course, we're going to build a "super-lite" version first, just to make sure it's flashable to the X50v =]

Maglite_RUS & Football may be willing to help, maybe not, we hope for his help + support throught this project

but first we need a team!!!

If you have any experience in making ROMS for X50v (ONLY, we will work on others after the X50v is done) or developing operating systems (various Linux distro's included) and Java (what the majority is coded in) then please please sign up. I plan to help develop the applications rather than the operating system myself, but I will work on ALL aspects of the project of course

If you're interested, and have found this link of google or something, then don't hesitate to email me here

Feel free to discuss =]
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Antineutrino:
Hi Obsidiandesire...

This could be a great project!

It's very nice to see you're a PPC enthusiast like me...

I'm a PC software developer (not PPC) with quite experience but to start this project we need some black belt coders...;)

Another Linux project was already started here

http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/DellAximX50 but the developing speed was not so fast...:cool:

Another issue would surely be the ROM compaction problem that will kick in also on a different OS.

The only thing that could solve this on x50v would be to hack the bootloader in a way to load OS from SD or CF , so all data will be written on a fast write NAND device... :cool: By the way this would mean loosing the internal ROM!:eek:
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] lmbranco:
But your approach seems to be the most sensible one, as one would never lose the possibility to startup the phone's default os (windows mobile).

It seems quite an interesting project, i have to admit i have a strong will to help you out, as i am also a professional programmer, however i am not a java, or C developer (long time i do not do anything in C), so i guess i am more of a designer myself :D

Well, i will keep up with this post and maybe we will colaborate in the future, i feel it's time to have our own software in the mobile's, i hate the microsoft's approach to the os handling.
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
Glad to see we're getting some interest in this project!!!

Hopefully, soon we could set up a website and start developing =]

who knows, we may be the lucky winners of the google competition and get $10 million! (not much use to me because im british lol)

So, you're Idea would be basically multi-boot?

sounds good, but we'd need to modify the bootloader (maybe hold enter, power + reset to switch to ROSS-Mobile?)

Sounds good! and i've just started learning Java too, so this project could take a while, hopefully, if it starts getting quite a bit of attention, we could move it to other platforms (HTC touch etc) which would make us Gods within the PDA community :P

I do like the posibilities of Android as it looks like it could make good use of the graphics chip in the X50v and it wouldn't have Windows Mobile lagging it down :)

How much RAM does it have again? It would be as powerfull as an old PC if you overclock it slightly (700mhz, 32MB RAM, 16MB graphics or something like that) and slap on a minimal OS and you could have your own Folding@home Pocket version! lol

Sorry if i've gone off on a tangent, i'm really excited about Android and it's possibilities.

First steps though, how would you get the DEFAULT android software to boot on the X50v? I think this should be our goal before starting on the project itself
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] ultraprimeomega:
this is cool. if anyone gets this to work i would be happy to be a tester. i don't know much about programming but have flash other devices with Linux.

A bit a info i picked up on flashing Linux on ipaqs is that you had to flash a new bootloader that would boot both wince and Linux. don't know why both but maybe to return to wince because to flash the boot loader you did it with a app that ran on wince and after that you would boot the bootloader and make a serial connection so that you could send the linux distro and erase wince.
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
Thanks for the info, more help on how to do this would be great! (I could try this on my X50v for testing purposes)
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] duke_stix:
would it not be actually possible to boot the android/linux directly from a storage card? so as to effectively allow users to 'dual' boot?
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] ultraprimeomega:
Each time you would boot a os you would erase saved data (hard reset) because you would need the memory were the settings are for each os. but thats is what i think i haven't flash a device for a long time so im out of date on this as far as if they gotten a doul boot win ce and linux but i assume that this will be a problem with win ce and android dual boot.

You would have to put both os in the flash mamory(were the os goes) and find a way to save the settings from a os and store them so that it can load the settings for the other os and vice versa

but you could do it like linux on a palm zire72. i have linux on my zire but linux is on the memory card when i reset the device it will reboot onto the palm os, so no flashing happens just load the bootloader through the palm os and linux kernel loads, but at the same time palm os is hard reseted, this is palm but same linux that is used on ppc. You would need to find a way too load a bootloader during win ce but dont see that this is possible. only one os at a time.

And Obsidiandesire i will try to get an old friend that used to work on porting linux to ppc he might help on the bootloader part but haven't herd from him for a long time but will try hard on finding him. but as long as we get many people this might be possible. i will post later if i find him.(good luck on your leg)
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] duke_stix:
or, the flash memory card from which you 'boot' the android/linux from could actually hold a partition which served as a flash drive/storage drive aswell? so effectively it would mean you would require something like a 1gb or 512mb card, splitting that to allow you RAM and ROM space but i cant see why that would be too difficult. it would just be a matter of tricking the linux to thinking the local on-drive storage is its 'root' drive and the default drive to save to and to completely and totally NOT access any of the WM stuff on the flash memory that is hard-soldered onto the handset.

not sure if this helps, just bandying ideas around at the mo!
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
I see what you mean, but then the card might not be recognised in windows =/

However, denying the operating system access to writing the rom (and store everything in RAM) might work, but all settings would have to be stored on the SD card which could lead to a slow application.

The SDK (with the sample apps) itself is around 100MB, but Methinks that the final OS will be around 30MB (Without any apps)

Expanding on the partition Idea, what about partitioning the ROM itself? This might require a special WM6/5/CE ROM but one flash compared to many (everytime the device boots) could be worth it, and it could get round the setttings loss if we restrict each one to not write over the other?

My leg is getting better thankyou, seems like a severe muscle strain (The doctor said) so i should be back in school tomorrow.... great :D
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] duke_stix:
i see what you mean by the card not being recognised by windows and offer a simple solution:

have a DEDICATED card for android and a seperate card for storage under WM.

to be completely honest with you, theres people on here spending hundreds and hundreds of pounds to have the latest device (and im one of them) im sure they wouldnt mind spending an extra few pounds for another memory card which would allow amazing functionality without actually jeapordising their current WM install (so they can have an install of WM6 to fall back onto)

what i propose is the following system:

1) MEMORY card formatted and partitioned to allow more or less the same sort of structure of memory/ram as the onboard memory does

2) INSTALL the actual android/linux to the memory card utilising the space as you would the hard-soldered memory on the phone without actually modifying the handset itself in any way whatsoever.

3) THIS method allows people to effectively dual-boot android/WM6/5 without the danger of them actually ruining their WM6 install, effectively using the android/linux platform to play about with whilst having the original WM6 to fall back onto for day-to-day usage.

shouldnt be too difficult to accomplish, im sure a modified bootloader would do the job pretty well, cant see why without the help of Olipro and Pof this cant be done!

LETS GET THE BALL ROLLING!
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
Seems good, but what, have the SD card for storage and CF for the OS? 'cos you obviously can't have 2 SD cards in the X50v (unless there's a CF-SD card adapter lying around somewhere on the web or on a shelf)

But as far as getting the ball rolling, yeah!!

Work on having the vanilla build of android (one included in the SDK) running before starting from scratch!
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] ultraprimeomega:
another problem would be on getting the bootloader to see the cf card and that maybe a problem, we would need to add one of the slots(sd or cf) to the bootloader and let us choose what os to boot or what memory to boot(sd,cf, or rom mem).

the other way if we don't want to modify anything would be loading a bootloader during winidows mobile.

i hate this time difference :(
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] duke_stix:
i cant see why you cant actually have the android on the SD card and stick to having the CF card as storage for both WM and Linux

that way, it would mean a sort of 'standardising' for people to port over to other phones which use SD based memory cards.rather than making it bespoke to CF capable devices (of which there arent many!)
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
Yes, the problems will be a rebuild of the bootloader to recognise both SD + CF cards.

And loading the bootloader under Windows mobile could be good, but you'd then have to terminate WM (which could be a problem)

And which part of the USA do you live in? There's probably an 8 or 9 hour time difference :-(

@dude_stix

well, even so, you'd need both SD + CF storage, which AGAIN could be a problem. But (in my experience) CF is more expensive, and considering Android will take up less space, It seems a more viable option (in my example, a 32MB CF card would be useless if I installed Android on a 2GB SD card and nullified the rest of the space for use (which could happen))

I think the easier option would be to modify the bootloader to look for images on both cards and install on the one with the image on it.

What about drivers etc? Obviously these would be needed for most things.
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] ultraprimeomega:
drivers????:mad: :( :confused:

thats all i got but it would not be hard if htc releases its android devices soon so we can get ideas from them. still today linux devices have problems with bluetooth, wifi, backlight, sd, etc...

posted on 5:23 pm here in south central US (Texas)
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
That's a 6 hour time differance :/

The Drivers being the things (mainly DLL's in WM) that controll the wifi/bluetooth etc.

This is why Linux has problems with them, i think they have to rebuild their own or something, which could pose a problem.

Do you think we should set a website & Forums up, or is it too early at the moment?
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Antineutrino:
Yeah... ...Drivers!!

This will be the hard one...

With WM6 cooked rom it was easy... We could reuse WM5 drivers written specifically for that device (x50v and x51v needed a specific driver for the 2700G chipset).... So if there won't be any Smartphone with such chipset with Android pre-installed it would be very hard to write that drivers from scratch... :confused: By the way somewhere I remeber I found a PowerVR driver source code for Linux that could be useful to do the job...

Cheers
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] wovens:
Isn't the drivers' job what the linux kernel is supposed to do? Why don't you go grab the kernel from the gpe/opie project and add the android image to it, partition the sd card with a windows and a linux partition like the other linux guys do, load the ramdisk like they do and see if it works. At least they have a start on the drivers for the Axim.
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
Well, this could be a start indeed, now how do we get android actually ON the x50v??
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] doomcookie:
This looks like a really cool project. I don't code but I'm willing to help out in anyway you need me to. I've been using Linux for about a year now.

Here's the readme for getting a Linux kernel booting on the x50v, http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:http://law.hostsen.net/oe/axim/README

The server that normally has it is down, so I used the google cache to resurrect it. There's a mirror for all the files listed in the readme (I think) here. http://projects.linuxtogo.org/~law/aximx50/images/200706/aximx50v/

A lot more information is available here.

http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/x50vHowTo
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
Thanks for the info, I may try it now =]
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] doomcookie:
I just got Linux booted on my X50v. GPE loaded and I did the calibration. Seems to work pretty well, though it's already locked up once. I think this should be run off of WM2003 if we're going to run it off of an operating system. WM5/6 have too many issues with filesys.exe, which could be the cause of my lockup.

To get it to boot I had to alter the default.txt so that the kernel pointed to the proper filename. Other than that I just followed the guide (though I used gparted to set up the partitions).

The default.txt, readme.txt, and haret-0.4.8.exe can be found here. http://projects.linuxtogo.org/~law/aximx50/
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
Cool, how simple would it be to put android on this? I'm willing to take the "brick risk" in doing this if noone else is
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] ultraprimeomega:
finally i got my laptop to dualboot:D SATA drivers for some reason did not come in windows xp:mad:

Ok i think we are trialling away from android or maybe not(its hard to tell were we are going) but remember linux is not android but its a good model on what we want to reach. and risking too soon may not be a good idea for now. as for linux i never tried on the axim, how is it?

wovens. getting the kernel would mean that we are just running android on top of linux. it maybe a good idea

As for the 2700G it maybe a long time to get to it(i even forgot about it:eek: )

And for a web site i say yes but we would need a blog for news and a restricted forum(just came to mind :confused:) or a regular forum like this or continue here on till it gets long and people would not bother on reading. We are set for now to get android on the Dell Axim x50v. For everyone here the axim is not a smartphone but it was made by HTC so we need a vote stay, leave, or stay plus have a main site. Vote!!!!!!!!!

Remember we need to get programmers. to at least see if these ideas are good and help them, now as i see this i feel like changing my college plan and get some programming class. and i could not find my friend, it seems that he went to a different path, the path of a cracker and not a hacker.
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] doomcookie:
Support for things in the Linux kernel is probably going to be useful. The screen seems a bit flickery, touch sensitivity is a bit buggy (I can't seem to make it click half the time), there is no wireless support, no sound support (I think), no battery monitor support (I think), but it's certainly a good starting point.

From what I can see, haret uses the Axim's display mirroring mode to make everything fit on the screen properly. We're either going to need to write a new bootloader and display driver, or continue using haret. We could probably take source from haret in the making of our own boot loader. I can't help but wonder if we couldn't try something like GRUB.

I think we should keep the project here for a bit. At least until we can find some people to help us code, lol.
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] ultraprimeomega:
so first we need a bootloader

second see if we just run android or load linux kernel and set android on top

after that is up to were we are on running android fully or partly with or without limited or all drivers:cool:

so for now we just use this site for brainstorm and creating a team:)

Anyone with more ideas so this keeps on going
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
Yes, bootloader is a priority, see if we can load android ontop of linux, then see if we (being the programmers) can write our own kernel for Android.

I think this should be the order of priority (so far)

Bootloader, Linux, Linux with android, Android, display drivers, touchscreen drivers(theoretically u could navigate android with the HW buttons), getting windows to recognise it (may have to write our own activesync program?, then sound/wifi/bluetooth etc (of which the API's, google have provided us with :)) Userfriendliness is the last priority, infact I think we should stay away from creating a UI for a while, and make it mainly commandline based OS until that's stable (with onscreen keyboard obv)

as for a website/forum, Tinyportal + SMF seems good at the moment as it's free, simple to use, has a blog, and all the essential features of a good forum. I think .co.nr is a free domain name redirecter without ads (one linkback button on the main page is needed) and same for 110mb.com

Whenever we feel that this gains enough attention (About 10 pages worth?) then perhaps we should move to the other forum but stay here also?

I'm rather happy about getting into such a great project!!

and Luckily, i'm still in high school (last year) so I can still choose programming as my career path. I've got a little knowlage of Ruby (RPG maker XP) so perhaps I could start learning Java also.

Hopefully we can get some big development (even if it is just ideas + stuff) done on the project this weekend!
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] doomcookie:
I host my own website already. I'll set up a subdomain and a tinyportal/SMF site if you'd like. It's free for me since I already have storage/mySQL/apache and all. Plus I already run tinyportal/smf on my site.

Let me know if you'd like me to do so. The url would be subdomain.cookieofdoom.com, or I could get a domain.

Android already has a gui, and Linux is already controllable through a command line. Using Linux i was able to ssh through USB to my axim. USB support seems pretty stable from what I've seen.
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
That seems good, I think the subdomain would suffice until we get a little more attention.

First things first, we need a sort of name for this project rather than "android on X50v", i mean, i came up with ROSS, but in all honesty it's a bit odd..
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] koalala:
There is a 2700G Linux driver here :

http://compulab-systems.com/web/linux/index.html

But without 2D/3D acceleration.
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
Thanks, could be usefull....

At least to test at first...

A note to UltraprimeOmega,

I'm gonna stay up all night tonight, so the time difference won't be a problem =]
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] ultraprimeomega:
Thanks if you still on but that last post was at 4:16 pm. But thats ok ill just read and post later. anyways im not online at that time, im doing homework

what time did you post?

I might be online tonight studying, so if someone here sees me online just send a IM to yahoo or skype: ultraprimeomga or windows live mess: ultraprimeomega at gmail.com (with @ ) Ill have my browser on here.

Posted on 7:53 pm
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] ultraprimeomega:
it would be around 4 am on the other side of the pond but here it goes

android could be used with the hard keys and maybe a keyboard at the beginning but we can also run it through a console connection for the people that would want to test their apps early.

As for 2d and 3d acceleration thats on till a long time as i said but i feel soon because i herd that on one of the devices is going to support full something(cant recall someone help me here) acceleration it maybe a graphics chip.:) :confused:

posted on 9:57 pm
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] ultraprimeomega:
closing the books for now and go to sleep US history is interesting but like a lot of people, its boring.

anyways just looking around my comp and saw that skype had something like a conference calling but its also public, just an idea but we can use it so that everyone can bounce ideas at real time we could have a public discussion so that people can jump in and say something. sounds stupid to me but just came to mind(tired)

ps. Obsidiandesire can you im me, if you have any im, when your online so that ill know if anyone is online ill just log in with my mda thanks

tired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:(

posted on 11:10pm
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Obsidiandesire:
I have added you on MSN messenger. I'll download skype later. Unfortunatly I have no microphone, so i guess that conferencing is out of the question (until I buy my new computer about March time)

also, much as I hate to do this, but my duties as a fellow forum member tell you to not triple post. :/

You can edit your posts if you have extra info.

it'll be about 1:50 where you are, so I doubt you'll be replying for a while.

Any ideas for a project name yet?

And let's leave 2D/3D Hardware accelleration out for the moment, but implement it later.
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] ultraprimeomega:
Sorry, my bad:(

Name: android x50v (simple but it says its android but on the x50v)

A50v project

Android Axim

the dell android x50v project (if we want to represent dell)

i was also thinking about running the linux kernel but if the htc devices running android have a compatible bootloader could we just skip this and go straight to app making and driver making or porting. I'm just saying this because on how google is advertising android they say its going to be compatible with many of todays hardware. Are they saying that they are going to release updates or is it to tells us that we are the ones to make the updates.

sorry again did not mean to (ironic that i have 316 posts)