yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] ApriliaM3:
I've had a cleanup of the childish stupidity here and I don't want to be returning for more of the same, thanks.

Back on-topic.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] bala1701:
The view finder was pitch dark actually :)
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] XDA_RealLifeReview:
Say "cheese", then rate this thread to express how photos taken with the Honor 8 come out. A higher rating indicates that photos offer rich color (without over-saturating), sharp detail (with all subjects in-focus), and appropriate exposure (with even lighting).

Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] kbhatia1:
simply amazing

Amazing picture clarity

nice flash

in short nice phone and camera
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
dual rear cam rocks it.:D
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] mdau:
Can anyone post pictures taken with honor 8?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] evilpaul13:
Disclaimer: I take very stupid pictures.

Same subject just using the tap on the family and the axe murderer from The Shining to automatically change where the camera was focused.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
Damn that camera quality. :D
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] evilpaul13:
My previous phone was a Samsung Galaxy Avant which I knew had a terrible camera before I bought it, so I'm still getting used to a really nice 4K camera. :)
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Dina87:
Very nice shoots :cowboy:
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] malnabokor:
The 4K is exactly what I'm kind of missing in video recording. I'm satisfied with the photo and basic video quality however I have devices at home where I could watch back 4K recordings - if I had any.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] evilpaul13:
I've got a 4K monitor, so I would have appreciated 4K video inclusion as well. :/
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
My friends Xperia Ze03 heats up when shooting videos. Does Honor 8 heat up too?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] malnabokor:
No, or not that much however your friend at least have the option to record in 4K. As far as I know some Sony smartphones limits the lenght of the video in 5 min due to the heat, I could imagine some limitations here as well and let the customer decide what he want to do.

The hardware should be capable of it I think my friend's OnePlus X can do it (with an unofficial mod) and the CPU-GPU is weaker.

I still love the camera but if I could wish something this would it be :)
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
My friend's Z3 has a camera of 21 MP. Astounding. Maybe that's why it heats up that much. :D
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] evilpaul13:
I recorded a 6:30 1080p60 video to test. The phone got warm in the camera area, but I wouldn't describe it as "hot." I don't have an infrared thermometer to give an exact figure though.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
Interesting. My friend's Z3 goes so hot that the phone shutdowns itself to cooldown
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] evilpaul13:
The Z3 has a Snapdragon 801 which has some overheating issues in general, I think? It could also just be the difference that it's using 28nm tech instead of 16nm that uses less power. Or the Honor is encoding the video using a dedicated video encode/decode circuitry block entirely or more so than the Z3 which might use more of the CPU cores to encode video and consume more power doing so?

edit: Hopefully that made sense. I just got home from work and need a nap. Playing back 4K video on my PC uses ~25W with CPU decoding versus 5W with different software that uses my GPU.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
It might be. That's a very good deduction. :)
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] zinko_pt:
That's a well know bug on the Z3. I think it was corrected in a firmware update. SD810 is just a hot poorly developed SOC.

From my brief testing with H8, it doesn't heat up as nearly as Z3.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
I recommended him to root his device to solve the overheating or at least reduce it. But he said he doesn't want his phone modified in such way.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] zinko_pt:
It should be normal.

Use Battery Spy app and track the temperature. Keep the app in the background, record a film, then check the app for the temperature variation.

Should be around 50ºc.

Can test Antutu or PCmark in loop and compare temperatures to video recording.

Just let it cool down between tests.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] pijes:
honor 8 camera can take 4k resolution pictures but cannot record 4k resolution videos. end of story.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] joe2k01:
This is last page and there is no screenshot
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Bob_McBob:
Has anyone compared the photo quality with the Moto G5 Plus? They are similarly priced right now and I'm having a hard time deciding because of the notoriously poor G5 Plus low light image quality. I can't find any direct comparison reviews or user experiences.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] evilpaul13:
"ON THE LAST PAGE"

As in Page 19.

lern 2 reed.

Or don't. The Honor 8 takes 4K photos. People who can figure out the camera app and know what 4K is have been doing that for about a year now.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] joe2k01:
Calm your ass down I just misunderstood
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] smjoshi:
Actually there are 3 different standards (and therefore resolutions) all of which are colloquially called 4K

UHD-1 - This is the standard generally used by TV and PC Monitors - the resolution is 3840 x 2160, This is also sometimes called 2160p

UW4K - Resolution is 3840 x 1600 - Some gaming monitors use this standards

DCI4K - 4096 x 2160 - This is generally used by the motion picture (films) and video production industry.

So Honor 8 with max resolution at 3968 x 2976 comes close to UHD - 1 (actually a little higher)
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] pijes:
Do we expect honor 8 to record 4k video when the p9 flagship doesn't?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] joe2k01:
Honor 8 is a really good piece of hardware
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
My friend got g5 plus , the pics are cool as honor 8 captures .

Still honor 8 is the best
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] nestojean:
I am on B385 and there's no option for that.

Thanks 4 responding

Honor 8

FRD L-14 B385
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
Is B385 the latest for L14?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
no, b392 is latest one.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] PalakMi:
No, they have a SoC which is not capable of recording 4K!

Pretty weird, huh?! Given how powerful this SoC is :)
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
Ho then thanks for the explanation.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
If 8 pro does supports it, may be 8 supports too. We can try for that but chances are too less.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
App port works?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] joe2k01:
Mm I don't think so
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] pijes:
So far 4k video recording is available for kirin 960 and above with exception to 955 chip in Honor Note 8 and surprisingly missing from the P9 flagship.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] nestojean:
Yeah! Anytime i check for updates, i get B385 as the latest update both via system updater and Firmware finder.

Any ideas how to update to B395?

Honor 8 FRD L-14.

Thanks! :cool:
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] PalakMi:
I do also have B385, it's the latest.

Updater tells me no updates available
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
No way unitill it is available
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] joe2k01:
You do have a point lol :p
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
i always do.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
I have hopes for this.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] joe2k01:
Others said that it's not possible
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
Some time ago, a bunch of people said custom ROMs are impossible for Kirin devices. Look at it now. :D
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] joe2k01:
Yeah but for camera is a bit different I think :silly:
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] coreinsane:
How to enable EIS (or software image stabilisation) in video mode?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] pijes:
it's only available when recording in full hd 30 fps. there's a switch called stabilizer in the settings. if you choose to record in 60 fps the switch will be gone
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] coreinsane:
Thanks a lot!
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] TorpedoGirl:
I've started using my own photos as background on PC/smartphone, I love the quality of pictures (still impressed after 5 months)
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
If your are good clicker post them in themes section , we can use it too .
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
Any new theme?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
Yes , lot of shares are pending from my side , i asked him if he is a good clicker ,post the pics in thmes section.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] sniperlife:D:
Photos are very crisp and clear. Loved it! :cool:
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] PalakMi:
My only complaint now is, I can't use the monochrome lens alone :( (frd-l04)
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
What ???

, mine too using only one lens.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
Why?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
Idk from the beginning of the phone the camera uses only single camera lens. :rolleyes:
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
It uses both. Try in EMUI. Cover the right lens and you should still see the viewfinder, cover the left and still the same.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
Nope only one is working.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
Well that's bad.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
Only left one is working.:( Is your both cameras working?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
Yes when I was on EMUI.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
Wait bro i think it is a sensor to detect and add sharpness to picture.it is not a camera ,my thought.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
It is a camera. Dual 12MP.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
I will check in another version by rebrand.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
Ok bro update me.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
Oh. How will u check?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
Closing the camera with finger.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
I dint get u though
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
In my current firmware the camera is not using both the cameras so i will try to rebrand to other version and test whether both cameras will work or not.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
Lol. Why and how do u think they arent working?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
Adrain got working both lens but in my device it is only working one lens. i tested by closing one lens.the left one is only working.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
This only happens to me in custom ROMs.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
Monochromic lens wont show anything when u close it. Atleast it shows not to cover ur finger on lens while taking a photo. I dont understand why u feel it isnt working . Stock roms have full setup to manage the build
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
This is what I thought.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
Yeah. Hope he get clarification
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] mizaj:
the 2nd pic is a night shot with lightpainting's star treck mode ?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
Awesome shots there man. :D
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] sniperlife:D:
The colors are so vibrant.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
Awsome bro.nightshot is worth it.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] tboy2000:
Shot in Greenwich London. No editing.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
Stunning shot.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] sniperlife:D:
Sunsets are always beautiful.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
But not every one don't have skills to capture like this.

A perfect shot. Sky is looking really good.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] sniperlife:D:
Yes but it's not that hard.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] venugopalu007:
Anyway ,the shot would be appreciated .
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] sniperlife:D:
Yeah I appreciate it much.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
It should be:cowboy:
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] shashank1320:
dual camera does the job pretty well for sure. no doubt about that
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] hassanjavaid8181:
dual camera is going its job well by taking beautiful images
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] alimir98:
it takes really good shots..mpressive
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] derrick_12341:
Took this an hour ago
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] MrThomasAnderson:
I can make some really nice photos with my H8 :)
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] hassanjavaid8181:
Nice click..:good:
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] itisiryan:
Your dog is cute. :D
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] derrick_12341:
In daylight with a steady hand photos come out pretty decent imo
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] shashank1320:
Looks awesome.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] itisiryan:
Very vivid shots.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] hassanjavaid8181:
On auto mode??
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] derrick_12341:
Yup no manual mode. Like 2 of those were taken with HDR on
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] hassanjavaid8181:
nice..colors and details are really nice..:good:
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] itisiryan:
HDR really improves shots big time.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] MrThomasAnderson:
Today :) I own this phone for several months and it still surprises me sometimes with really great photos.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] itisiryan:
Wide aperture?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] MrThomasAnderson:
No, auto mode :)
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] hassanjavaid8181:
Indeed camera is one of the best of this phone...
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] itisiryan:
Oh wow. Even in auto it looks like in wide aperture mode. :D
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] ivanlaki:
Am I the only one who thinks that colors of the pictures are pale? (In comparison with galaxy a5 2017)?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] PalakMi:
Can you provide a picture taking by both devices?!
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] hassanjavaid8181:
In my opinion..as far as I used Samsung device it always takes cooler pictures as compared to others..

You can post some sample shots..
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Saeem:
Photo quality is pretty good compared to others at this price point.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] hassanjavaid8181:
Looks nice..

at auto settings??
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Saeem:
100% default settings.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] hassanjavaid8181:
Nice clicks..
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Saeem:
Thanks :)
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] shashank1320:
Looks good with good details of the object
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] :
Great Camera!!!
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] :
:svetius:
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] :
Yup!
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] hassanjavaid8181:
Looks good
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Days Tech:
It is on top of line even with current standards. This only applies to photos since video only does 1080p.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] miuhen:
The camera is surprising. Very clear.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Major Stuen:
I am happy with this camera. Here are some pictures I took earlier this year.. Just opened camera app and click the button, no manual/advanced settings
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] TorpedoGirl:
I'm always impressed with the quality of macros I can take with this camera...
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Masum46:
I noticed that when i turned on the flash just upper flash works..is it normal??
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] ScardracS:
No, it isn't
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Masum46:
R u sure??
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] aico60:
If the flash is on "Always on mode" in camera or if you use the flashlight app, it's normal. My isn't working too on P9. The second flash works only when you are shooting (when you press the button to take a picture).
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] ScardracS:
No, I'm watching before and you're right
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Masum46:
So just single flash works..right?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] ScardracS:
Yes
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Masum46:
Do u know whats the reason??
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] ScardracS:
I think is a decision made by Honor
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] TorpedoGirl:
This is one of the best pictures I've ever take with this phone :laugh: with a little editing (Snapseed).
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Tomar777:
Did anyone notice any changes on the camera quality after the Oreo update?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] TorpedoGirl:
Another one :D (edited with Snapseed too)
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] horsetastic:
Delete
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] TorpedoGirl:
Here's another nice shot I've taken with this camera (edited with Snapseed).
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] TorpedoGirl:
Let me revive this thread :D this is a DNG file edited with Lightroom. Made this just for fun, I'm a total newbie!
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] evilpaul13:
Only a brief test in Performance mode. Four or five AnTuTu runs and then ~7:30 recording 1080p60 with the phone recording whatever I had on TV at the time.

It might have peaked around 50C if I let it run longer, but I had to be up early, so I'll try again after work.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] MC FLMJ1G:
I just got the phone this Friday. Wife was curious and tested it. She said at worst it was as good as the Samsung S6. That is a good comparison imo.

I have not tried video as of yet. So far I am loving this phone.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Erik1974:
As a new owner i made a little walk through the woods this afternoon and took some nice autumn pictures. I must say i am really impressed by this camera. I compare them to the pictures i take with my Canon G11, which is a high end compact camera, and although the G11 takes better pictures (not so strange cause it costs as much as the phone) the Honor 8 doesn't fall far behind.

What i really love about it is the dual camera which makes it possible to blur the background, this is something that is not possible with my G11.

The camera is one of the main reasons i bought this phone and i wasn't disappointed!
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Dottorfox:
:D
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Erik1974:
I made an album on Flickr with Honor 8 pictures. I will add more pictures if I have some worthy of sharing.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskoGRns7
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] manny18pr:
I just got home from a trip to New York, if you guys want to I can post some pictures for you to see the quality.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] saurabh40629:
definitely, show us some magic. :P
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] jsanta11:
Downtown Charleston SC, 1st real test for the camera. Definitely impressed with night shots
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
That's one clear night shot right there.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] manny18pr:
All those weren't edited.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
Wow. Dual cam focus is goddamn gorg.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] manny18pr:
Indeed. I used the phone camera for the whole trip to NY. I'm very impressed with the low light shots and the shots with lots of light. Also the selfie camera is up to par! Even video was awesome. I kinda miss OIS but is not a big deal.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] saurabh40629:
The detail and clarity at night is just wonderful.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] manny18pr:
Also I noticed if you use the mode "night shot" you need to have the phone really steady like in a tripod to get a good shot. I used the auto mode to take the shot. Just tapped to focus and done.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] manny18pr:
Check this one out. It was on the plane getting back home. We were above the clouds and the sun was about to set. It was very dark and still you can see the light in the clouds. This photo wasn't edited. Just tapped to focus and it adjusted the brightness.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] adriansticoid:
It looks like a foamy ocean. :D
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] manny18pr:
Lol yeah! That was like a storm. We had a lot of turbulence
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] br.moss:
Dual cam is soo good and I'm loving 8MP snapper on the front too :D Really not helping my snapchat addiction :(
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] jsanta11:
Kids playing outside.

Camera doesn't disappoint!
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Martinimans:
GripTight GorillaPod Stand with Honor 8

Just so many cool pics
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] AhhdafunK01:
Lille, France, Train Station by night (around 10 pm)

Manual Mode
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] birdie:
Please allow to download the originals. Thanks for the album - the photos are great!
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] AhhdafunK01:
Bad light conditions for great pics :good::cool:
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Erik1974:
Can you check if it is possible to download the original files? I changed the settings. Thx for the compliment!
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] professorpasta:
Those are all great images. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but mine have a 50% chance of coming out blurry. Usually I have to sharpen and then minor-HDR it in Snapseed. The still camera has EIS right?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] mr.b4rt:
stock camera
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] mxl180:
i find pro mode doesn't allow you change timer seconds. Same for you? IT's needed to keep the camera still for long exposure.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] mr.b4rt:
well the first one is a "30s" shot

someone in an other thread mentioned in snap camera is a raw output option but couldnt find it
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] CROrION:
Hi guys, here is my flickr album with photos taken in all possible conditions, there are 46 photos (outdoors, indoors, good light, bad light, low light, selfies, food, panorama, long exposure, silky water)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/99741841@N07/albums/72157672999685033

I'm very impressed with camera, only thing that is bad is hdr mode, but dynamic range is good in normal mode, so i can live with it.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] vietiplatsch:
Love it!

It's a pitty that there's no RAW Mode in the camera app, but luckily you can shoot RAW nevertheless. (with Open Camera e.g.)

Picture below was taken with the stock camera app, unedited.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] CROrION:
Star trails mode, 5min
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] mr.b4rt:
haha nice, how do you get 5mins ?

got it
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] jkccl9:
That look sick!
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] Jimmy_buddy:
Google camera/photosphere?

Has anyone been able to get the Google Camera app installed and been able to take photospheres/fisheye etc. with this phone? I really like those features and I want to make sure I'll be able to use them on the Honor 8 if I get it.

Also, does anyone know how the camera in the Honor 8 performs (real world, I know the specs) compared to the Mi5?

Thank you so much!

=Jimmy
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] mr.b4rt:
installed 2.7 because of the old ui and it works great
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gwmkwan:
Here are pictures I took from the Sahara desert
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] jkccl9:
nice are u on holiday or do you live there?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gwmkwan:
I was there for holiday

Those are my first time that I got to play with the manual mode for night shots
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] jkccl9:
Really detailed shots, wasnt expecting the Honor 8 to be that good!
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] eksasol:
I wonder if anyone have experience with this phone camera and the Nexus 6P or Oneplus 3, and if the Honor 8 camera is better.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] jkccl9:
Gsmarena let's you compare the same photo taken on different phones
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] jsanta11:
I've owned the nexus 6p & s7 edge prior to the H8, have to say picture quality is amazing depending the shot. Am completely satisfied no regrets purchasing the H8
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
Even I too noticed the picture quality of H8 is far better than 6p
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] AlrightSir:
Did you use Photoshop/Lightroom/etc for the second one? And it was a stock camera app or another?

They look neat.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] xdanewbiedude:
can you post a photo of some of the pictures you took?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] abdi7451:
For those on CM, is there a noticeable dip in photo quality?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gopinaidu77:
Not much. Quality almost remains the same.
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] fever003:
Why can't we take RAW pics from camera fv 5?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] jkccl9:
Have you tried a different app?
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] krispy321:
Great cam, does the job. Low light performance may have been better
[Honor 8 Real Life Review] gwmkwan:
Those pictures were all from stock camera

I was playing around with the manual mode at that time