yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikeer:
Yeah, just like I though and as benches from mobile-review show, the driver is there, it's just not working the way it should. Looks quite promising :P
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jed2i:
i signed the petition, and i hope they will release video driver
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mreaglejr:
yeeepeeee

i'm so happy!! i'm jumping on my chair!! :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] KyleK29:
I'd assume it would depend on how they fixed it. If it's just inside their app (using the driver correctly), then I doubt it'll fix 3d support (games).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikulec:
Can you please tell us any news you will have (about the boycott, responses of HTC, ...). I am really interested how will this end. Good luck, I hope it will help our situation.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] christian15213:
I hear the petition loud and clear. I signed it too. However, HTC isn't to blame... AT&T is. If AT&T stops buying their products then HTC will change. What, you don't think att has tech support that knows of these issues. Yet, the buyers still purchase millions of units and sell them to us. Ma Bell is the one with the pockets. Get her to listen and the rest of the world will follow. IMO
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jsneider23:
100% agreed and signed petition as well. Will be great if it works since I absolutely love the 8925 I own, but I'm disappointed in ANY company that forces such a petition to provide support their equipment when this type of functionality should work out of the box...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Bram87:
And when are we gonna hand the petition over to the HTC Corporation?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
As I did not received any answer from HTC before the dead line, we opt now to inform "potential Tytn II buyers" in certain shops about a "possible" issue they might encounter. This as from Tuesday normally.

It might be just a drop of water in an ocean, though if all of you are just sitting on your asses , and barely complain on this site, nothing will change.

Going with some flyers in front of shops will eventually increase the awareness of HTC giving more attention to this problem (and still hopefully fixing it)

Seeing the size of their R&D / software development, HTC COULD have ben able to write the driver in approx 10 days if they obtained the information from Qualcomm.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikeer:
Well, I'm updating the wikipedia entry (sorry if it's not entirely true from techincal POV), I hope this brings at least a little bit of attention to the issue. It is number 5 in Google searches for "TyTN II" for myself :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
I'm wondering if Qualcomm knew about this... Whereas if the full 3D/graphics potential was unleashed per'se maybe the battery life will take a serious hit... I dunno. I'm just thinking this is absurd already. I'll bet HTC might be regretting going with Qualcomm for chips especially with the shortage now.

I will say that using TCPMP v. 81 with the Windows codecs does improve video playback over using the built in Windows Media Player. I never was a TCPMP fan when it first came out but v.81 is more refined and the codecs(for WMF anyway) are much better. I attached it. Give it a try. Still though I can't imagine that HTC or Qualcomm didn't "know" about this... If they didn't, how dumb are they?

BTW over 3100 sigs now.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
Htc? Never Again

Indeed, i was happy to see that Wikipedia ws updated also mentionning the issue with the video driver.

I only have one message for HTC after almost 4 months having my device:

NEVER AGAIN HTC ! :mad:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
The video issues are definitely a pain but I'm also starting to get more annoyed with the camera "performance". This sucks. When it's low light the camera barely refreshes on the screen. Chug-A-Lug... Of course we all know this I'm just reiterating. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Blowfish64:
Of course they both knew about it. Qualcomm HAS drivers to utilize the hardware. HTC just wanted to cut costs, so they didn't pay for the licensing fees to get the drivers. Now we're screwed for it. Granted, Qualcomm is probably greedy and wanted to charge too much for them, but if you want to blame someone, blame HTC. They could have gone with another company's chipset or ponied up the dough, but they never should have done this piecemeal sh!t the way they have. It's just a total slap in the face to paying customers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
Now I'm more angry!!! Haha.

Good point.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pjwilkin:
If true, yet another reason never to buy HTC products again

The fact HTC seems to not even acknowledge support requests on this issue just shows they are a "Ship it and move on" company

I'm almost thinking an iPhone may be a better choice, at least apple release updates.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
Glad you know now a bit more about this typical Taiwanese company. Earnings stand before everything and they do not give a **** about +3000 persons on a total sales of ten of thousands of these devices.

Next time I am on CES, Computex or the China sourcing fair for business, I'll provide them for sure a visit.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ubiquitousrob:
This video lag/cam lag was one of the first things i noticed about this device. The fact that my sidekick cameras on the sk2 and sk3 are both faster then this is just sad.

Is there any way for someone to reverse engineer the chipset to make a driver for it?

Or does anyone work at Qualcom who will allow the drivers to be leaked? =)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dperren:
I'm very impressed with the TYTYII as a device, but I'm actually shocked and disappointed at how much the lack of drivers slows it down. I've obviously signed the petition to this effect, but does anyone have a working email address for HTC that I can send a complaint to?

As many have said before, this petition inevitably drums up a lot of discontent and bad press, but it would be vastly more effective if people vented their frustration in the actual direction of HTC in addition to on here!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
Check this thread there are a few post referring to direct emails. Does anyone know Peter Chou's email address? :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Stijntje:
Hi all,

4 comments:

1) you should include all technical problems found with the device, not only the video. Video is high demanding so it can be easily that we are expecting too much. So include also problems which are less technically demanding like the problem of VOIP not using the front speaker (as expected) but only the rear speakers (silly to hear somebody speaking at the back of your phone). VOIP is also been used in the promotion of the device... so why giving a half solution which is unusable.

Opening up the petition to other technical problems, will motivate more people to sign.

2) regarding the action: don't focus only HTC directly. We should also direct attention to reviewers (on web & on magazines) and push then to include our comments.

3) has the letter/petition been officially handed over to HTC? And what is there official reaction.

4) We can not wait too long to have results, otherwise we would be pushed (receive reactions...) to buy the next generation.

Just some ideas....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] itsgreen:
Maybe someone should write a letter to some bloggers like engadget and gizmodo. I would do it but im not a native speaker of english so there are bound to be some (stupid) mistakes.

I think if we present the case in a proper way with arguments there is bound to be some attention.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Isaygarcia:
thats right.. maybe if we post in blogs we'll be heared faster xD..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Apex i ITR:
My company recently got acquired by Qualcomm. I'll see who I can make nice with
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
You can count me in to bring the petition to HTC's HQ here in Taiwan directly. I'll even ask for a meeting with the CEO :mad: and would get back to you for sure. If the OP from the petition will allow, I'll be glad to assist.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
Allowed. :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] freyguy:
Youtube Video = PR Nightmare

Can anyone produce a youtube video showing the poor performance comparing side by side with another brand phone. Preferably some cheap popular phone that you'd never expect would out perform a Kaiser. Once it's on there xdaers could hit it hundreds if not thousands of times. Companies don't like this form of bad PR as it can be viewed by anybody and is easily accessed when "Tilt or Kaiser" is googled. They have also, on occasion, done something about it. I personally cant do it as I have a Wizard and no Tilt (yet). Just a thought and good luck!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
Very good point. Got no camera to file it though :(

Best would be to show the same movie/clip on a 1Gigabyte micro SD card and play with same software (WMP) this would not bias the comparison..

if anyone can do this, it will hit Google points for sure (and indeed put more pressure on HTC / Qualcomm)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RPG0:
If anyone does make a good video on Youtube showing the Kaiser against a cheaper PDA, i'll reference it in the title, asking people to click it.

Post the link here, but make sure the video shows the problem... maybe use a high bitrate wmv, so the problem is really visible, even with youtube encoding
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] xmoo:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=356193
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
Briliant idea for the YouTube video, that for sure will make a lot of noise!

I cant make that because I only have 1 PDA, my Kaiser.

By the way, we can also compare GAMING experience.

Pick a quite graphics intensive game and compare with other phone.

K-Rally is terribly slow in Kaiser.

Or maybe handheld game simulator will do.

Certainly that will show the poor graphic performance of the Kaiser!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
I just sent this to slashdot.org:

"Taiwaneese PDA giant HTC released their latest flagship PDA phone called HTC TyTN II (also known as Kaiser, Tilt and MDA Vario III) but recent discoveries show that maybe it's not so much a powerhouse after all. Due to lack of proper driver support for the video part of the Qualcomm MSM7200 chipset users are left with a seriously handicapped unit with very poor support for gaming, video and photo. Granted, the phone is mostly intended for business users who will rarely see the effects of these issues but it's still leaving thousands of customers who want to fully utilize the phone with a slightly bitter taste in their mouths.

A petition for driver support has been posted and almost 4000 people have signed it. It has been sent to HTC on numerous occasions yet when contacted HTC still claims to be unaware of any such issues.

You can check out the petition here:

http://www.petitiononline.com/tytn2vid/

Potential buyers of this much hyped set beware until these issues are resolved."

Feel free to copy it and send it to other news agencies so that we can get some publicity on this.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Thought about doing this before, glad somebody did. If you have a slashdot login (if you don't have one, please make one!) go to slashdot and login, then go to the Firehose.

Find the "HTC TyTN II PDA Phone lacks video performance" story. Click the "+" button to the left of the story, and select 'interesting' or something in the little box that pops up to the left.

This will mod the story up, if a sufficient number of people do this, it will make the Slashdot frontpage, which is read by about 5 million people on a daily bases - color is currently blue, we should at least be able to mod this up to yellow!

C'mon people!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
Never knew about firehose, I just myself a login and uppe dthe story. It's in purple now whatever that means. :)

Think about it people if you just spend a few minutes of your time maybe we can get this solves. :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
Done! C'mon, go to slashdot and mod it up!

Other interesting sites to submit :

http://www.engadget.com/

http://www.gizmodo.com/

Anyone from Taiwan? Maybe user from Taiwan can send article to local news or Taiwanese news website.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
I've contacted Slashdot, Gizmodo, Enganted, PDA Street, PDA Buzz, PDA Today, Geek Mobile, Mobile Tech Review, PocketPC Mag, Pocket PC Thoughts.

I've also contacted a bunch of local Swedish websites and magazines.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
Just upped the article on Slashdot. Our colour is currently violet: in the words of Slashdot themselves "Red is hot, violet is not". Come on people, lets make this story red.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] smuook:
Another + added.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kipmast:
I Emailed HTC support and gave them my two cents worth about the Video issues. HTC already replied and seemed oblivious or unaware of such issues (yeah right). Ha Ha, I told them to "be aware" cuz their's a storm coming their way.:eek:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ceevee369:
Can someone add this to the Wikipedia page about the Tytn II (the video driver is mentionned but needs update with his straight to the fact sentence)

Great. Keep it coming. Wake them up.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jaygriggs:
5 bucks

I think everyone who signed the petition should contribute 5 bucks (minimum) to the video bounty thread. that's some serious cash and I bet someone on xda (probaly chainfire) is way smarter than htc and can create something. on top of that maybe you haven't heard the coreplayer guys are going to be announcing a solution to there software on the kaiser on the 7th so maybe with some contributions we can get a real solution within a week.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] nbviper:
I signed the petition and sent a tech suppport email off to HTC. Here goes nothing.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
example video as requested earlier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xeb8-m5opDA
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] princeasi:
I think what can also send a message to att and htc is if everyone buy at least one kaiser retail(preferred) or with a contract, and then return it within the 30 days, and specify the reason is due to poor video playback quality. I bet that will get us heard also!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dsyro:
Another e-mail in HTC's ocean of customer oblivion!!!

I just e-mailed those humanoids at HTC customer services. Not that I think anything will come out of it, but I believe in fighting for my rights (as well as for those of the xda community) even when it's hopeless. It went like this:

My phone has a huge problem playing videos (laggy to the point of being totally unwatchable). It also has issues with the camera (extremely laggy and unusable in dim environments especially).

All these problems are not justified by the technical specifications of the unit as advertised (or the corresponding price for that matter!)

After doing a search on the internet about these problems I realised that it's not just my unit that has a problem: there's thousands of your customers complaining over the internet and there is a petition that has already been signed by 4000 of them, demanding that HTC provide a proper driver for this device (which apparently is the source of all these problems).

See:

http://www.htcwiki.com/thread/1030779/petition+for+updated+video+drivers?mail=1131&t=anon

http://www.petitiononline.com/tytn2vid/

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=342500

A nice example of how horrible the video performance is can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xeb8-m5opDA

It seems that thousands of your customers (including myself who was a devoted customer of yours up to this point) will not be buying any HTC products in the future if HTC does not somehow deal with this.

Please provide me with an INFORMED answer of what HTC is doing about this, or what we can expect in the near future, before starting to look at other brands who seem to be more serious with their clientele.

If nothing else, I'll be happy in the thought that one of these incompetent orcs working for HTC will be annoyed because they will have to take the time to respond (I think they have to), even if it's to give me the usual dumbass line "have you tried a hard reset?":rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] spellshaper:
I have send mail to HTC support last week and still no respond, so I am not sure about this also ;).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tyeo098:
Possibility of stealing drivers

We just have to wait

Upcoming device

HTC P6500 (HTC Sirius 100)

Release Date: January, 2008

Windows Mobile 6 Professional , 32bit Qualcomm MSM7200 (Chipset) @ 400MHz, 1024MB ROM / 256MB RAM, 3.5" color transflective TFT display, 65536 scales, 240x320pixel, cellular GSM, GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA, built-in NMEA 0183 GPS, WLAN, Bluetooth, MMC, SD, SDHC, SDIO, scroll wheel, 3.1 megapixel main camera, 1600mAh Lithium-ion polymer battery
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Hopefully... the KS20 drivers are such a ***** they make my mother in-law look nice.

(disclaimer: my mother in law actually is really nice)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] awdbeast:
4199 for me...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sniperess:
4202 ! Come on HTC.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tyeo098:
Wow, that youtube video sucks, im using TCPMP and I am getting 20+ fps while watching King Of the Hill

4203!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] rockthegod:
Isn't this product already out ??? I mean Expansys UK is selling them on order.... !!!! So have to search for somebody who might have bought it or maybe a link to its ROM would be niceeeeeeeeee !!!! Let the Almighty fulfill our wishes of a proper working d3d/ogl driver in this thing and make our kaisers accelerate to their full promised potential.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] herg62123:
i am number 179 on this petition. i want to help in any way i can please read my post here for more info: http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1811079&postcount=43
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] HeatWave:
Signed it. Also wrote an angry email to t-mobile, who sold me the device. I mean us getting mad might be "ignorable" but if all the large providers start complaining about our complaints and put some pressure on HTC we might have a stronger case.

Hope it works...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] herg62123:
Pm Me All Proof So I Can Send To Att

send all forms of proof so i can send to my contact and help us push htc for an update please.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gfxMaven:
What exactly do you mean by proof? Proof of the video issues?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] herg62123:
PROOF

By using youtube.com and the crappie video feed on the kaiser/tilt - upload to youtube.com and then send me the youtube.com link. i will then forward to my contact for revue so we can get att wireless involved. this will then pressure htc to fix or patch our phones quicker.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Guys, have anybody tried to contact Qualcomm?

Someone could try calling their support, identify as one of their investors who is concerned with HTC not getting proper drivers/support from Qualcomm.

Something like that. Try to get some info form them so we can start pointing fingers at right people.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Well, I'm tired of sitting around doing nothing, so I wrote a letter to AT&T trying to make them pressure HTC to release a fix... I know, I know. I'm a hopeless optimist.

Whoever is a customer of AT&T - I suggest you guys do the same. You can just copy and paste if you wish. It's better to do something than sit around waiting for miracle.

Here it is:

There's a growing concern about the performance issues of the AT&T Tilt (aka HTC TYTN II or Kaiser). It is widely known that Qualcomm's acceleration is not working properly/not working at all. The performance of a 400MHz processor on Tilt is actually slower than, say, HTC Wizard (aka Cingular 8125).

Although we understand that AT&T is not a developer of the device and cannot fix this problem directly, we, as customers of AT&T are asking you to do whatever you can to assist us. There's no doubt that AT&T can pressure HTC to release a fix for this, while we're trying our best. There are many, many complaints that were filed to organizations like Better Business Bereau to make HTC fix this.

Once again, we, as customers of AT&T, who bought AT&T Tilt device, are kindly asking you to research this issue and allow HTC make Tilt the phone is was advertised to be.

Signatures and more info can be found here:

http://www.petitiononline.com/tytn2vid/

Thank you.

AT&T Customers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
Yeah c'mon guys, so far I'm the only one who actually bothered to post a video on youtube (AFAIK).

It isn't that hard.

Either use MyMobiler with Quick Screen Recorder (to capture the feed from your PC screen) or just use a regular video camera (to capture it live).

I've done one video showing poor video playback and one showing horrible touch screen performance.

I din't have a video camera and one thing that you cannot capture on a PC is the camera performance. We really need someone with a DV cam to do that. (Enable FPS in the registry to make it even clearer how poor the performance is.)

If anyone needs help to capture a video or if you can't be bothered to create a youtube account of your own just let me know and I'll help.

I'll also make sure I update the wiki I'm maintaining with whatever new videos appear.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] herg62123:
I DO WORK FOR AT&T WIRELESS

and i am willing to send all proof to internal people inside att. att is willing to listen. i need everyone's help. tell you what send me a pm and i will send you my contacts e-mail and you all can send yourself. i will not post on this forum so all can see but if you pm me with a request i will send you my contact e-mail ddress and you can send yourself.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
I like the idea with booklets/flyers with information on the kaiser.

Somebody come up with the text and we will get in groups to give out flyers in front of stores that sell Kaiser.

Several of us will also need to try to get to higher ranks of providers that cell kaisers. Without their help we won't be able to influence HTC. I'm sure that MAJOR resellers like ATT and TMobile can really make HTC worry.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Excellent - you need to stay in touch. We could definitely use someone like you. Once again people - we are nobody. AT&T and the likes are major resellers in US market. Now THEIR word really counts and it counts VERY well.

However, it is all useless unless this reaches higher ranks in ATT.

We need to start moving our butts.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
Great stuff, but I think if we band together and issue a class action against HTC and the carriers, and hit up every publicist who will give us the time of day, we might have a shot of turning some heads. I like where you are going with getting the carriers on board, but who we really need to reach is potential customer who do not visit this site. If more potential customers are aware of the problem and sales start to taper off, I'd be willing to bet it gets fixed real quick. It is sad to resort to this tactic, but I am not sure how else we will get heard. This community is pretty active and has good numbers, but it is nothing compared to the number of people who buy the phone and never visit this or any other forum for that matter.

Please visit the driver bounty thread and contribute towards this end if you see fit.