yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
Sorry, but I have to react. I understand your point and I think you are not right. We are not talking about the difference between slow and fast drivers but about difference between NO and ANY drivers.

It's like if Porsche advertised its new 911 to have 6L bi-turbo engine. You buy one and find out that it has really bad valve-timing and performance of 50kW. Would you be satisfied? I don't think so ;-)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greeek:
And thats my point. If Porsche QUOTED an output of more than 50kW, then there would be a valid point. You know as well as I do that those benchmarks are listed in their documentation...

Where are HTC's false claims?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
We aren't going to play some "word games", are we?

HTC claims that TyTN II

uses

Qualcomm MSM7200 chip. But instead Qualcomm MSM7200 chip just sits there barely used.

If you want exact HTC's sentence, I pick this one: "More powerful than anything you’ve seen before...".

But we are seriously off topic here. Sorry mate, but this is the thread for those who are not satisfied with performance and driver implementation of TyTN II. Point of this thread is not to argue whether HTC should or shouldn't do something about the issue but

how to get HTC to do something about it

.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] greeek:
I disagree, but your right on one point, and that is that this post is probably straying a little, so I'll leave it alone... I've said my piece.

Good luck with your petition! :rolleyes:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
Thank you very much :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
Ok I updated it. Sorry for stealing your text servalot. I apologize. I just thought it sounded good and went with it...

I could see HTC saying. "Well we would have fixed your video issues but the Petition didn't have a "real" name. So, too bad.

:D

Update: Is it still "online"? It seems to be... I dunno. Regardless the real bad guy(s) here is HTC.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] CorruptedSanity:
Petition number 594 :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RPG0:
Bad news: http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1659482&postcount=61

:(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
So what about directing this toward Microsoft? Could it be Windows Mobile 6 related? What other OSs are people saying are faster? I see others devices mentioned, but what OS are they running?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bishopau:
I wouldn't take that email as gospel.

They may be simply blame shifting.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
HTC just lost some street cred...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Bouloama:
See this post i posted in the other thread:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1661304&postcount=74
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] princeasi:
I'm a little new to this. How can i add my petiton in?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RPG0:
just click on the link in the first post and then click sign the petition
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] princeasi:
ok got it, thx!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] lmbranco:
And we now have 689 Signatures Total!

Good work people, if only HTC was so efficient as their community...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] hicks:
Signed and bumped. Shame to see a software/driver issue affect what is otherwise a very nice device.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Ecraseur:
697 Signatures Total
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dizzy33:
We are now at 708 signatures ...

I really hate this device now !!! A bad keyboard (I am typing faster using the on screen keyboard !!!), poor graphics performances, what else ???!!! I only have it for 3 days now and everything about this device is disappointing !!! My Qtek S200 (SPV M600), overclocked at 240Mhz works faster than my Kaiser for everything !! I paid my S200 only 50€ (second hand), my Kaiser (second hand too but never used) 460€ ...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] little_rock:
has someone shouted about this thread over at modaco forums & howards forums perchance??
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] grisu-sl:
And we now have 689 Signatures Total!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joebongo:
720 odd and bump!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] zeroed:
739 :) go go go
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gf_gollum:
758 and bumped....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joebongo:
Probably the same but bumped for the hell of it. Please sticky this mods!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RPG0:
Well, i didn't, but feel free to do it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] athanaso77:
Hi there,

I distribute the information about this petition to the greek forums, in order to collect as more signatures as possible! I hope that something good will come up with all these! ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bishopau:
I posted the link to this thread on Modaco.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] creamhackered:
Signed :)

Lets hope they do something. I'd get Paul from MoDaCo to highlight this to the HTC press guys.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] wtpelzer:
Bump!!!

Just wanted to keep this issue at the top of the forum! :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] laakness:
This definitely needs to be stickied!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] little_rock:
surely one of us knows some techie at HTC ffs?!

can you say *k-i-d-n-a-p-p-i-n-g*

lol
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joebongo:
Bumpity bump
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RPG0:
Since this is still not a sticky: BUMP !
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Menneisyys:
ok made sticky
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Menneisyys:
Done :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mreaglejr:
so..

hey guys, i signed the petition, the graphics r reeeeaaally slow.. d@mn. but i just dont get sth: lets say they say "a'ight, we accept the petition". so whats gonna happen then? we wont have new chips, will we? i mean we already have our slow tytnII. they wont upgrade it for free or sth..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RPG0:
The thing is, they CAN upgrade it for free, because the problem is software-only, or at least mainly software.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RPG0:
I got no response in 8 days...

I sent this using the online support form, do you guys know any other way (maybe an e-mail adress ?)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jym04:
I dunno, I thought I read somewhere that Paul at MoDaCo had some contacts. But, well I guess he already knows about the petition. At least there's a thread there.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mreaglejr:
oh

ah, i c. i thought its the hardware. thx <2
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mrky:
hey

i'm in.........
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ranekouhi:
Signed the petition right after I bought my Tilt today, hopefully we'll see some results sooner than later.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
Over 1000 sigs!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cjkerr:
Done! 1018 and counting... spread the word!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NoFatePPC:
it it possible that we can make such a rom with all drivers included?

I dont have the kaiser yet , but i want to buy it :)

Is it better that i wait then maybe until a decent rom is avaible?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cruton:
Signed. I've been wondering why the hell video is bad on this thing. Has anyone tried submitting this as a story to Engadget or something. Maybe some bad press might motivate HTC.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
That's a good idea.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kersh:
Yeah, if we make a campaing remarking the bad features of the kaiser on good webs with a lot of traffic, probably HTC will make something
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] GTRoberts:
I got a HTC Q4 "Customer Satisifaction" survey over night... I referenced the video (and general) performance of the Kaiser and our petition... I *hope* it'll make a difference!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NoFatePPC:
in the new dutty at&t rom are new drivers? DOes that solve the problems described here?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RPG0:
Guys, i still have no answer to my e-mail.

Unfortunately, i don't think HTC will ever solve this. It's obviously they are concentrating on Android, and not on Windows Mobile... I'm not sure this is good news or bad news, but for now it's bad news... :(

I noticed they didn't release any new ROM for the Elf (HTC Touch) either, so here's a question for you all: did they release any ROM update in the last year or so for any device? I mean apart from the shipped ROM, and i don't mean patches, i mean full ROMS... Also ignore the updates to WM6 for a few of their devices. I think they stick to Windows Mobile just because they have to have an OS on their phones, but they are going for Android as soon as possible, and focusing thier efforts on Android only.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BenOggo:
I was actually planing on purchasing a kaiser. Now I don't think so as I don't have such problems with my wizard. I signed too. I think to release such beta state products i really a shame. What do all the chips help without drivers. That would have made me so angry to see the vid performance after purchase. My full condolences to all buyers. Keep it up. At least you have saved others from buying the product. Hope HTC will hear and do something.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bishopau:
I signed in the top 20 and am amazed to see the response that this has had.

Sadly though as has been said, I am confident that HTC would turn up their noses and continue with their Android development as that would be more along the critical path rather than addressing the issues of people who have already given them their money.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Blowfish64:
I've actually already submitted a request to Engadget letting them know of our situation. We'll have to wait and see if they want to run with it. Of course, feel free to flood them with requests ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Blowfish64:
I don't think they'll respond to your email. It's just one email that they can easily ignore. What really needs to happen is to start letting the public know what HTC really stands for. If it starts getting press and eating into their bottom line, I have little doubt HTC will rush to support their "loyal" customers like the wonderfully "customer friendly" company that they really are.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] draxredd:
Let's also emphasize that the Kaiser is one of their first qualcomm based devices, and that a long line of products are coming based on the same hardware, and in all probability, with the same flaw.

which should be a perfect motivation for a "caveat emptor" style article in any tech blog.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] BenOggo:
How much work do you think it would take to make/implement the drivers? Normally they would come with the licence for the chips right? So why not include them at all? Those of you into developing whats your guess? Would it cost HTC so much to fulfill the request? I mean hey, If they gave out the "raw" drivers (which they won't, I guess) people on this board would maybe have a solution in 2 to 3 days right?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
Here's a link to a HTC customer service satisfaction survey.

http://hsc.asia.htc.com/qms/global/qms_online_survey.aspx?qms_header_id=35
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] stinger32:
I'm 1220 person signing
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] flooty333:
I think this would be a great place for us to voice our dissatisfaction.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] marco899:
Did the survey with only one positive thing, the Tytn II.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] absro:
I signed the petition and filled the survey. As I stated in the survey, if they do nothing to fix this issue, if anyone asks me what PDAphone they should buy, I'll recommend an Eten instead of HTC.

I almost feel sorry that I purchased the Tytn II...

My old PDA (an Asus, more than 2 years old) performed better than Tytn II, not only in video playback, but in some games too (for example Pocket UFO...).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ladytoast:
signed #1263

BTW, by the look of it, that on-line survey is related to customer support not product satisfaction. I wouldn't be surprised if the information never gets to the development team at all. :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
Possible, but at least we're hittin' them from different angles.

Has anyone chimed in with a Mogul(which I'm assuming has the same chipset) and mentioned about any of these issues? Or anyone with a Polaris/Touch Cruise yet?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jaygriggs:
the mogul has a different chipset
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
Also note, that HTC Touch Dual as well as S730 both have the same MSM7200 chipset.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dizzy33:
I think it would be important that everyone here answer to this survey. I did it, we are directly in touch with HTC wich is a good thing I think to let them know what we think !
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mandlebrot:
I have signed the petition but have not completed the survey because as others have pointed out, its not a product review survey.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Memnoch30:
I also signed the petition but the survey is a general survey and not related to the Kaiser. That said, is there anything else we can do? I'm sick and tired of the slowness when scrolling in Internet Explorer. If you're at a wap page that is no more than 2 screens long, it's fine. But if I go to wikipedia to read an article then god damn it gets slow to the point where I click to scroll down, and wait a second for the screen to scroll down (which is more like a screen refresh since nothing moves). And if it's got pictures then it's anywhere from 1-2 secs.

Completely unacceptable especially when you consider that this is supposed to be the most advanced phone in the world. The functionality of the phone is the greatest I've ever had, but something so simple like scrolling pages in Internet Explorer being this slow is ridiculous.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jaygriggs:
agreed

I agree with ^ I think our leader should send us a mass email and have everyone send that email on the 1st of every month until we get what is supposed to be the most advance device out there. by dec 1st we'll be to 2000+. And I think everyone that posts here knows the kaiser (with these drivers and of course xda) CAN be the most advanced device out there. and that's what is great about xda where phone lovers can come together and get something accomplished for the consumer. (remember iphone price) it can be done!! I dunno if I wouldve bought the kaiser if I had known ($700 usd) about this issue I probally would have waited for the tilt price to drop. and HTC s behavior in this matter will decide if I rush into another $700 htc product
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
There is actually a "fix" for that. Copy this .dll file over your current one in your Windows folder. I think you'll need a 3rd party app like resco explorer or maybe Total Commander to copy it over.

Mod edit: Rather than make another post I will add to this one. The above is true, but there is now an CAB file that makes copying the webview file easier:

Fix for the PIE slow (laggy) scrolling bug:

PIE Scroll Bug Fix for Kaiser_Tilt

(CAB version)

Mike (and sorry for poking my nose in!!)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] the_passenger:
signed. Anything that will bring goods to the community should get the supports from everyone. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] autosoori:
signed. I think we whould also send this to sites that review the Kaiser. HTC might catch on if reviewers say "Kaiser rocks but video driver support sucks"
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
I just came across to the Pool Rebel website, and they have updated their product to support Kaiser.

http://www.poolrebel.com/

I tested the new version and indeed the graphics performance is very fast compared to the old release.

So, based on this, I think the information to use the graphic chipset of Kaiser is available and something can be done to improve graphic app.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gogol:
Agree, I think everybody should fill in the survey and mention specifically about the Kaiser.

We can use that survey as another way to INFORM HTC about what we think about the Kaiser.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mreaglejr:
umm do you have the original webview.dll?

(ehh, that i didn't want to but accidentally overwrote)

please please please i need to have it :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] TiltedAz:
I haven't found a way to rename webview.dll or even move it somewhere else. I'm using Resco File Explorer. Maybe I can change the file properties first?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Radeon123:
Made a small video, ran the Futuremark Java Benchmark, if you watch the small video below you can clearly see the lack of performance due to no video driver for the Qualcomm 7200 CPU, it stutters terribly, looks worse in real life than the video :mad: :mad: , if HTC are going to uses the CPU in most of their devices from now on they are going to have loads of complaints, look how much the Kaiser alone has generated :eek:

The 2 phones are the HTC Touch on the left which uses the OMAP 850 201mhz CPU and the Touch Dual on the right which uses the Qualcomm 7200 400mhz CPU, this is a very simple 2d game demo and it runs like crap on the Qualcomm 7200 400mhz but amazingly smooth on the OMAP 850 201mhz CPU

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v604/Radeon/?action=view&current=HTCTouchLeftTouchDualOnRight.flv

PS: I also signed the petition for the video driver :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] drdingo21:
That is excatly why online petitions where never amount to anything.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Menneisyys:
The thread at http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=1689994 is definitely worth checking out.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Daemos:
has anyone posted this on the other cellphone forums? Might generate more traffic if it hasn't (like hofo, modaco, mobile review etc)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RPG0:
OMG, i just saw this:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=1691244#post1691244

i also tested and it's true. i think it's a different application, one that caches the icons at start, but still...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
Yeah that's odd. Stuff like this shouldn't be happening though. I'm sure there will be a ROM update sometime in the future(has there ever been an HTC device that hasn't had a ROM update?, probably...). Hopefully that ROM update will include something. I'm not banking on it though.

BTW, someone commented on the petition(#1487) that their Nike was having the same problem. That's good news actually. Now it's a problem for another model and they just can't ignore it. You'd think... This could snowball and leak as very bad news and hit their stock. I think it's a matter of time for either:

A. They fix it by releasing a ROM/Drivers/Patch.

B. Class action lawsuit.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] lmbranco:
It seems that the problem is not actually from HTC. Look at these job offers from Qualcomm!

http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-JPHH7Q0IXRZ

http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-J77ZJ64HJYG

Windows Mobile Drivers/OS - Embedded Software Engineer, Staff: QUALCOMM

Software Engineer - Windows Mobile or Windows Device Drivers: QUALCOMM

It appears that they are trying to correct some missing link, maybe we are lucky and in 1 year, the poor guy(s) manage to create a working driver for their "fantastic" processor.

It's time to start to think of another Tytn alternative...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] draxredd:
Ok... now we know the name of the company Dilbert works for !
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
I knew it. The Qualcomm chipset isn't even "compatible" with Windows Mobile... And they knew it all along. What a f'ing joke. Sure it might work but it might as well be a Samsung proc in there... Why even go with the Qualcomm chipset? Because it was cheaper?... Well that sure didn't reflect in the price.

LAWSUIT!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
Of course it IS compatible with WM. It's ARM architecture after all. If it weren't "compatible" with WM, it wouldn't work at all.

The only fact remains - we are unable to use MSM7200 to its FULL potential unless we get drivers. Nothing more, nothing less.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] lmbranco:
Actually this just proves that HTC have a big problem in their hands!

They have decided to use a Mobile Chip that does is not supported fully by the builder, so this means that they have their users mad at them for a bad choice and they (HTC) should put a quite heavy lawsuit against Qualcomm. On the other hand, who knows if HTC actually was aware that the MSM7200 chip was not fully used in Windows and just accepted it by having a lower buying cost?

To be honest, i see fault in both sides, and as such i feel fooled by both HTC and Qualcomm, and if i had to choose today, i would have kept my Trinity for a couple more months until a decent alternative would be out.

And i even bet that HTC put the pressure now on Qualcomm in order to have a working low level driver for their future use of the MSM7200 processor in their Android products.

A lot of If's but HTC has yet to prove us wrong, and so far they only managed to show their hands full of dirt.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] juiceppc:
I know i know. Im just pissed.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jaygriggs:
so whats the solution?

a lot of people are pissed but this thread is dedicated to the solution of this missing driver. Now correct me if im wrong but as a Kaiser owner and spending 750 on it the responsibility of the drivers falls to htc. if they didnt know about the qualcomm video playback being so bad how come they dont admit it and say were working on it which would probaly make most of us feel better. instead they just brush it off like its nothing but the truth is 1600 people are dissapointed and/or pissed off so what can we do to solve our problem. this thread is definitely a great start and like i suggested a few pages ago we should mass email htc once a month until somethings done. a email telling our frustration and eventually they will get sick of it and answer us or it will get enough media attention that it will hurt future sales.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gthing:
"every time that there is a significant amount of customers that say they want this app or that service we've gone out and we've delivered it to them. We think we are pretty customer centric from that point of view."

That is a quote from a recent interview with Ralph De La Vega, CEO of AT&T Wireless. I looked all over to see if I could find an email for him so I could point him to this thread.

Perhaps AT&T could put a little more pressure on HTC?

People who have other carriers should look into contacting their execs as well, if possible.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gthing:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/24/broadcom-accepts-verdict-owed-19-6-million-by-qualcomm/

Doh ... looks like Qualcomm might not be able to afford hiring driver programers!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] draxredd:
like a $2billions income per quarter company would care for a $20 millions fine...

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=qcom
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fusi:
i am _seriously_ pissed about this - what sort of incompetant f*ckwad company makes a chipset with no f*cking drivers

DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF?

sort it out PRONTO qualcomm ffs
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Bratag:
I called HTC support. Was assured an engineer would get back to me - we shall see if they do and what they have to say. Ill post if anything at all happens.