yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] mackaby007:
HTC Shift is just another machine....of course it can be improved!!

haha damn I've missed you all..lol. Been hanging out in the Kaiser forum for some time now as my life/work needs forced the need for a smaller device with similar capabilities to the Athena. And boy do I miss my old Athena...beauty that she is..lol.

Having said that, I rarely go back to what I had, so this leads me to the Shift. After reading the heavily debated pros and cons of Shift and so many varying opinions, I can only comment that this thread was extremely amusing lol, I'm still in stiches!!

Ok seriously now, as has been mentioned here many times...each to his own. If you don't like the Shift 'box standard' or potentially 'much improved ' with voice capabilities and full WM6, then why are you whining on this thread? Don't buy one..Simple, isn't it?

Personally, after having owned the Athena and having had the pleasure of having the community support the Athena project and seeing all that potential realised, I humbly admit regret that I disowned mine..hehe, but life goes on.

Knowing that the Athena team are gonna be/are working on this baby, I cannot help but want a Shift.

There is always more to HTC's products than what initially meets the eye. Gimme a bog standard Athena without the progress achieved in this forum (Athena project + community) and I wouldn't want to entertain one again, but the Shift was always my first choice, but wasn't available yet. Now that it is, I'll def be getting one as soon as I have some spare cash.

QVGA is simply not cutting it for me EVER again and carrying a laptop around isn't either. I need a compromise between the 2 and the Shift WILL give me this once the Project members have fully opened this baby up.

I know what I want a shift for and it will serve me well.

@Wu...good call bro.

@ Itxda, Oli, PK, Cmonex, hdbueller and others who helped/made it possible to crack the Athena wide open....props to you...keep at it guys & gals...there will be many who will eat their words after you 'hack it up'.;) Remember there were many skeptics before and they had to retract their pessimistic opinions once the initial goals were realized.

People this is a developers forum. If you're negative about possibilities from the get-go, why are you even posting more than one negative opinion? This will be no easy task to accomplish, but I know it's possible based on the facts of hardware presence (duh!) and the incredible passion and abilities of those who continually aim to improve on current technology.

Last point....where exactly do you think the likes of HTC get their ideas from to quickly release another device with improved software? Us!!

Hence no major breakthroughs in hardware technology with each new device released, yet always some significant software improvement snatched from ideas developed in this very developers site and the few others similar to it.

I hope I didn't come across to hard with my own views, but negativity is best kept to ones self, as it does not promote or encourage development.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] cmonex:
i've PM'd you.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
that post really sums it up....u need to come on msn bc i have info on something u might like.......
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Confucious:
I thought you'd know better than to quote a whole post like that! We all know he talks sense but do we really need to read it all twice? ;)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
sorry forgot to edit that out :p meh im working on rom as i post so posting aint perfect.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] hacking4fun:
Update:

They have now hacked it and you can make calls on this unit. I saw that another forum explained how to turn your shift into a phone and use GPS too! :)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] p0peye:
Nice. Any link...?
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] thaihugo:
I don't see voice capability stated here. Of course, there is the radio, and we know it's hardware is voice CAPABLE through bluetooth, but it seems to me that on the default setup, no voice call capability will be included. Also, the GSM part will probably linked to the Qualcomm chip, and be only visible through the SnapVue interface. If you don't hook the correct DLLs in this interface, voice will not come.

This device has some interesting latent power, but I feel the first hacks will only allow normal application launching very quickly. Getting bluetooth and wifi is another story. Putting a full kaiser ROM on it and syncing with vista on a bluetooth connection would be the hardest step. But once we get there, we have a killer device.

About the GPS part, if you go the the european HTC website, the info have disapeared last week. On the global one you can still find it, but it's probably a fogotten update.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pantaloonie:
Well, it clearly states 'UMTS/HSDPA/GSM/EDGE Data Function' but no mention at all of voice comms.

I don't want to argue with you Oli, but I think in this case you are mistaken.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] JayRayMee.NL:
Hi guys,

To take away all your worries: I have one right here and it CANNOT make calls.

Also the ClearVUE PDA part is for PIM stuff only (much like Vista Side Show), is kind of based on Windows Mobile 6, but is NOT Windows Mobile 6, so NO PDA.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] raskell:
I thought there was no phone . . .

"Sorry, there was some confusion...it is a phone as well.

Thanks

Beth Herst

Sales Associate

On The Go Solutions

847 933 1762

www.onthegosolutions.com"

Got this information from my USA sales rep. I was 100% certain that it would not be a phone until I got this reply. I will respond back and make sure they are not just referring to VOIP.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] :
Please calm down everyone!

Although the Shift was previewed at some length by Hugo and has been presented at GITEX there certainly ARE a large number of unknowns.

Not the least of which would be the implemenation of Windows Mobile, the relationship between WM and the Vista partitions and the extent of the SIM function that will be shipped.

The skinny brochures on the HTC europe website only satisfy the casual non serious user.

So lets wait till it ships, or as commented, if there are hard facts out there like a PDF user manual then post or attach them.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] cmonex:
you don't know him, so you have no idea what he's like.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] cmonex:
i'd not worry... i'd say it will be hackable probably ;)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
Im not gonna spend £800 and hope for a hack!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pantaloonie:
No, I don't know him. All I know of him is what I see on these forums, he seems to be a clever guy with some good ideas, but he has no patience with other people, has a very foul mouth, and doesn't like it when others suggest he may be wrong.

I won't hold any grudges, but I will always respond to unwarranted abuse, against me or others.

Anyway, lets get this thread back on topic... Roll on mid november, when we can find out the truth about the Shift.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
wow u guys would go as far as doubting Olipro??? He has access to EVERYTHING. trust me on this. he might be abusive on this forums but its because of idiots who cant read, listen to him, or trust him. he is really a nice guys once u get to know him and both me and cmonex know him. She knows him much better than me but i wont get into that. All i know is olipro is telling the truth and u should listen to him. He has connections everywhere and can get me pretty much everything i need. the only thing he has not come through with is the source code for the dlls for htc home so we can get it to work with dpis besides 96 but i dont think he has any contacts in that department so thats why but he does everywhere else.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] apd:
I've spoken to him to Oli and he is pefectly polite if you don't ask stupid questions. Also, can't doubt the fact that he's a genius!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Olipro:
it has a built-in microphone and dual speakers... you do the math
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pantaloonie:
My laptop has a built in mic and dual speakers, it can't make phone calls.

I really do hope you are right, but all the evidence says otherwise. Even the guy with one in his hand says it can't. I think the only hope is that HTC listened to all the criticism of the pre-production models, and made some major changes, which is probably too much to hope for.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Olipro:
does your laptop also contain a Qualcomm MSM7200?
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pantaloonie:
Not the laptop, but presumably my T-Mo WnW pcmcia card contains something similar, but the software only allows data and sms, not voice.

Anyway, the short answer is that nobody knows for sure until the final version ships. I'll no doubt get one anyway, it's nearly xmas....
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
if the Shift cant do voice whats the point when you can get HSDPA proper laptops with a much better spec and battery life?

my voice and data is on the same sim card of which i still have a 12 month contract to run so its no good to me
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] wgary:
I am very, very tired of people making excuses for Olipro. Being smart is not a license for bad behavior.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] fallenczar:
but being a genius is ;)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] wgary:
I disagree. Respectfully. :)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Olipro:
and I generally just don't give a monkey's.

I don't need anyone to make excuses for me, and I don't particularly care what you think either.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
ladies stop the handbags and stick to the topic
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] shobhit_90:
HTC shift HARDWARE is capble of making calls but is is disabld because of patent rights owned by Dualcor http://www.dualcor.com/ so I think thr must be some people who can hack dis isnt it
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spzero:
UMMMMMMMM

:mad: how can dualcor have the right to patent the idea/ability to make phone calls on wm5/6 thats the whole point of the os and i dont understand this concept of interlectual rights or patents in tghis regard as obviously if you can stick a simcard in a device for connectivity to make calls is the next, if not the first obvious step they cant say that no one else would consider this and there fore are stealing there idea, especially HTC who have being at the forefront of mobile pda's for many years. what a load of bull.....
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] :
I agree that the hardware may well be capable of making calls, after all, it has the microphone and speakers, and also has the MSM7200 chip for the baseband, but the one i had in my hands recently definitely did not have the ability to make voice calls. And no, the manual does not mention anything about voice calls!

Unless things change from the one i have used, and they re-write the manual, then this thing does not have the ability to make phone calls.

Hopefully, someone will find a way of replacing the Snapvue with a full version of Windows Mobile, then we might be able to get somewhere, but as it is out of the box, it ain't got no voice capability.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] hdbueller:
Instead of bashing someone who DOES know what he is talking about(Oli) by people who have no clue, lets stay on topic......if Oli says that it will be hackable, it WILL be!!

Also, my daddy used to tell me that if you do not know someone ,do not talk about them negatively, and obviously you do not!!

Okay,enough of that......I will be buying mine soon based on Olis info. He knows his ****,folks. Many of the abilities we have with our units have been a direct result of his work and contacts!

You may do well to remember that!

Later........
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pantaloonie:
Ya know, I was gonna leave this thread alone, but, hdbueller, if you look back, you will see that Oli was the one to 'talk negatively', not me - he was rude and abusive, not me - and don't be telling me that I have no clue, because I most definately do. And YOU would do well to remember that.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
LAYDEEZ LAYDEZZ as the thread starter i did ask for these girly tantrums to stop. Now maybe starting the thread doesnt mean jack but frankly its getting old.

Some of us are in 2 minds about buying the shift so any

'relevant' discussion would be cool , without the **** waving.

all the best
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Midget_1990:
next 'off topic' (*****y comment) gets teh thread locked and a 24 hour ban

(sorry olipro you're not immune, just leave it for once ;) )
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] :
@HD - I have no doubt that it will be hackable....In Fact i am positively hoping that it can be. That way i can possibly persuade work to get me that instead of giving me an old dell laptop!!

I have attached a link to the manual for those that want to have a look. ike i said, It doesn't mention anything about phone calls in there, only data transfer through the cellular network. Or at least i couldn't find anything about calls.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=55W8CRDK - shift manual
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pantaloonie:
Nice find, thanks for the manual.

There's a interesting review of a production sample here:

http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1010
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] wgary:
OK, I'm confused. I guess these must be girly men waving their dicks? Or what?? :)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
thats exactly right mate
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spzero:
well as far as i can see it can send texts which is a plus as i only make maybe one call a month. but text a hec of a lot and if need to make a call can just use skype. im sure it will work fine4 me and sure will be hacked eventualy as the god like olipro states.n.. . but can we install cab files to the snapview? so i dont have to boot vista to make a skype call?????
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] :
I must admit that i hadn't tried installing any cabs to the snapVUE part of it, but from what i was told, it shouldn't even be able to do that. But again, until someone gets hold of a final release model, we don't really know for sure.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
Has everyone stopped bickering now?

I'm quite a geeky chap - i acknowledge this readily, but usually l maintain the ability to see past the allure of blinky lights and snazzy specification and look instead at the practicability of things.

Now I too was initially rather keen on the Shift when I first heard about it and was quite ready to hurl my Athena in the bin and get one as I wanted one NOW etc...

But then I weighed up the pros and cons of each device...and I have to say that if you put a Shift in my hand now and asked me to trade it for my Athena I would politely turn down your offer - and here's why....

Size, weight and overall portability - athena wins as it is infinitely more portable and seems more solidly constructed. It is also pocketable (just!)

Connectivity - Athena again. Sure the Shift supports USB 2.0 instead of 1.1 and allows more peripherals than the Athena's USB Host currently supports, but the athena also has the ability to make phone calls!

Now on the subject of phone calls....EVEN IF a hack were developed to allow this - and I think so few people will by the Shift over Samsung and Sony's offerings that development will be limited - yes EVEN IF a hack were developed wouldn't this throw up other issues such as bluetooth earpiece support? If the Shift supports an OS of its own then you can forget independant software development...surely.

And lastly - battery life. If I COULD use the Shift as a phone could I rely on its battery to last me the day? Does vista run on standby all the while the proprietry WM OS is running?

I think I'd rather get this for the money...

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/Samsung-Q1-UMPC.htm

so much shinier and prettier and you can pick them up cheaply on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Samsung-Q1-Ta...goryZ177QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It would work excellently with the Athena as a modem and of course you wouldnt miss a call.

Sadly I can't afford to buy any more gadgets right now....
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
i have been considering the shift and think if it cant do voice, then either i will stick with my AEMO or get a proper

lightweight laptop that can last more than 2 hours with its OS.

the SHIFT mistakes IMHO are

1. Using Vista instead of XP, much more taxing on processor and memory

2.No voice (seems to be the general conclusion)without a hack and its too costly to risk imo

3.NO WM6 for the non Vista part which is a basic communication screen (BIG MISTAKE)

4.800x600 screen.

If you want the full windows experience maybe just buy a ligtweight (albeit expensive laptop) and use your Athena as a Modem for internet access. Or get a USB modem from TMobile or 3 for £15-20 per month unlimited and get a small pay as you go phone for about a £10.

Like most people my sim card is for data and phone calls

if i get a shift i am effectively wasting all my phone credit which in my case makes up the majority of my Bill.

I am on WEBnWAlk Plus and Flex25 for £28 per month

my phone tariff is £25 and my Unlimited DATA webnwalk is £3

NB dont be fooled by the current price of that Samsung Q1 there is still 2 days to go. It will probably go for at least £700+ i would imagine

MAYBE Just buy one of these instead http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/laptops/0,39030092,49293507,00.htm

and stick XP on it or get it with XP
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
i've been watching q1s closely on ebay for a few months and TRUST ME they go for VERY reasonable amounts. You can also get a six hour battery for them, and the control pad is great for emulators and suchlike. Shame my fiance won't let me have one!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
If you use Samsung Q1 wouldn't you still need a PDA phone and GPS? Don't think you could use it for appointments, addresses, sms,etc from practical viewpoint. Also don't think you can listen to music considering how precious each second of battery juice is.

I'd choose Athena any time.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
I wouldn't get rid of my ameo, i'd like the q1 to replace my laptop and use my ameo for what it's good for. Just thought i'd rather have a q1 AND my ameo than sell my ameo to fund a shift which wouldn't offer me quite as much.as the two combined.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] johnwalk:
Like you Ive been watching them for a while. I only got the Ameo because the Shift wasnt available, at that time. I seen a Q1 in pc world for £299. I think it was a one off. now Ive thought about it for a while I think I will stick with the Ameo, I dont think I will even bother with a laptop. At this moment in time the Ameo is good for work, but im not loving it as a phone.

So back to the original post, If im finding the ameo An excellent pda/phone. but to big as a phone, then for me it doesnt matter if the shift is voice enabled. I dont think it would be practical as a phone. IMHO
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
I agree. I think 5 inch is the most you could stretch on screen size for it to remain portable (if just). Bill Gate suggested 7 inch to Samsung,and I think his thinking was for people who want XP machine. I think XP is less useful than WM for most of us. In terms of office application, we already can have full desktop software functionalities using Softmaker, which is more suited for small screen than MS office.

Okay, you can't do programming and stuff like that, but do you want to using a 7 inch screen? Do I want to run a CAD CAM architectural drawing software on a 7 inch screen? Absolutely not! A 15 inch screen is already too small and clumpsy for that. I need at least 20 inch. So if I really have to do those things in a serious manner,notebook cannot be replaced with a UMPC.

My present way of doing only very selected task with notebook, not 99 prevent of other tasks on wm6 is very optimal.

I had owned many really really thin and small size sub notebooks before so I have a good ideal of the strong initial attraction.I'm also familiar with the subsequent disappointbent due to slow speed, inadequate keyboard size, and screen size. In all cases I ended up keeping a regular monitor and keyboard at home and office and used them only as a portable CPU and harddisk. I worked as an IT consultant, managing large software projects where my office is not a fixed location ( I had worked in 15 countries, and all works were client project based), so I was really attracted by the idea of really portable computer. I used to have to carry a toolbox size Compaq computer back in those msdos days! I used notebook of all shapes and sizes after that. It was no fun checking them into the plane.

When I was using the ultra portable subnotebook, some of my clients supplied me with desktop anyway. I think it was obvious that I wasn't working fast enough, and since my company billed them rather high time based fees,it was much cheaper to just give me a much faster desktop!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] rlydiard:
Wow, I have been looking for this manual for ages, but darn it all, megaupload never works from Taiwan. Is it possible for someone to post this on another download site? Many thanks from the isle of Formosa.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
most of my usage is entertainment/internet based

so XP appeals to me as hopefully it can run proper programmes like divx or xvid without the hassles of TCPMP . maybe a spot of light gaming and also streaming of internet video.

the Athena is great and I really like the form factor but I would also love TRUE windows capability.

now if someone could put XP on it that would be about perfect. though it obviously couldn't run it very well :(
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pantaloonie:
In a slightly drunken stupor last night, I ordered an Asus eee PC, as seen here:

http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/Hands_on_with_the_ASUS_Eee/

which should arrive tuesday.

First thing I'll be doing is upgrading the 512mb Ram to 1Gb and installing a cut down version of XP. I'll be using it with a USB 3g adaptor, and it looks like it will do almost everything I was expecting of the Shift, at a quarter of the price (I paid £234 including delivery, could have been a little cheaper if I had waited a week or so, but like I said, I was drunk...)

I guess I'll be needing a 16Gb SDHC card now.... I'll let y'all know what I think of it next week.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
you might have ben a bit previous mate, they are bringing out a version with an 8GB SSD and 1 GB ram at the med of November... dont know how much it will cost though

still as i said in a previous post this looks like it could well be a better way to go than the SHIFT at 25% of the price
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] TryOG:
HTC Shift (@ gsm arena)

It's voice capable.

You can call people without skype or anything.

Information that has been given to me from a more guaranteed source is:

Platform specs:

Microsoft® Windows Vista® Business

SnapVUE™

Processor/Chipset

Intel® Stealey 800MHz: Qualcomm® MSM 7200, 400MHz

7" transflective TFT-LCD touch-sensitive display

GSM/GPRS/EDGE: Quad-band 850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz

1GB SDRAM

40GB HDD

2700mAh Li-Ion battery

The price will be €1150 - €1200 euro's in The Netherlands.

And I think GSM Arena gets their info from the air. :)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
The article was announced in March 2007 and I guess HTC did intent at that time to include phone. They changed their mind and decided to remove it later. I've also seen confirmation on youtube presentation that confirm there is no phone capability.

Anyhow, one of our fellow posters has already said twice that his SHIFT can't make phone call. That is as reliable a source as we could get.