yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] famsanr:
I know this device can be very dificult for using it, but my question: is it necesary magnify its bad points? I think that people who buy this umpc can decide if waste his money in the htc shift or buy a brick. My point of view is that you want to see a dark world and the sky hasn't change its blue color.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
What the hell is that supposed to mean?!!?

Surely it's wise to deliberate the good and bad points BEFORE you buy things rather than spending the earth and then being disappointed.

If you want to skip through daffodil-laden fields whistling sweet ditties then fine. I'd rather be more cynical and save wallet-ache. Is that a cryptic enough response???
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
I very much echo your sentiments.

I'd sooner have a separate EEE with twice the battery power and a separate phone.

Much more desirable in my opinion - and for just over 200 quid for an EEE I'm not so worried about carrying it about.

'Shift' indeed...they were asking for trouble with that one.

Any news on the HTC Crafp?
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
LOL :)

To be honest i was really looking forward to the shift , the form factor isnt that big a deal to me as i rarely talk on my phone and tend to use my Athena when i am at a desk.

I would use the phone via a bluetooth headset.

however the pathetic battery life, no XP (possible hack) and no WM6 is a real killler as far as im concerned especially for £840 clams.

Its also gonna be an even bigger target for the light fingered.

If it was about £450 i might consider it , but the Eee PC has really changed my perspective on how much these things are actually worth!

basically i would like an Athena with full XP capability. As that is unlikely to happen my only consideration right now would be the Eee.

Even still theres not that much i cant do on my Athena that i can do on a laptop, so i will probably stick to that for now.

I many ways the Athena seems more advanced than the SHI 'F' T, largely thanks to the genius of the Rom cooks here PK Dual rom + GPS amazing.

However if i was starting from scratch .i.e. i hadnt already bought an Athena. i would probably get the smallest HSDPA phone i could buy and an Eee pc and put XP on it.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
well i didnt need any videos or pics to confirms my sources. i had the best source that no one had. like me and olipro said we had the rom so we knew what the phone will include or not. now its time to cook!! first touch cruise then shift. I been away for a few days from xda bc i been working, doing something for athena, and trying to get a newer build of snapvue. im bac though. time to catch up..
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
pawel, whats the news with Athena developments? I've still not decided whether to keep it or not!

Any exciting developments on the horizon?
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
well i have been away doing something for my own athena. hmm there are some suprises. the ones i can say are touch style cube for athena, probably iphone like orientation switching, maybe a fm radio(dont know if there is hardware), and we might go into linux development. i wish i could tell you another thing i have in mind for athena but cant. i will probably be going for different color versions of my roms and different languages.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
you guys seriously rock . if it werent for you i would have sold my Athena a long time ago. SNAP vue works great for me now and with the new version of WMtask everything is humming along nicely.

i dont really need another device thanx to your work but sometimes the grass seems greener :)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
If I reall really want a UMPC to run XP or vista, I would check out OQO O2. The key advantage I think is that it is much smaller than SHIFT. Yes, I said advantage and I'm talking about smaller screen. It is at least barely portable (may be, may be not), not just pretending to be portable like SHIFT (which is very clearly not portable for me).

5.6 x 3.3 x 1 inch is about 142x84x25 mm at 450 grams.

Athena's size is about 133x98x16mm at 375 grams without the keyboard.

SHIFT's size is 207x125x29 mm at 800 grams.

You might get away without a back pack.

Edit:

Another one to consider is digital cube coming out of Korea.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/15/digital-cube-working-on-worlds-smallest-umpc/

http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/15/hands-on-with-digital-cubes-worlds-smallest-umpc-the-g43/

Apparently it has gps and television built in. It runs xp and linux. The screen size is 4.3 inch.

Not a lot of details yet, but looks interesting.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
OqO 02 is nice, I've looked at them before. Bit expensive though, but it's a nicer build quality than the shift, longer battery life and much smaller as you say.

I really think HTC have screwed up bigtime with the Shift: if they'd brought it out when it was first announced (long before even the Athena was released) it would have done well, but technology has moved forward since then and now the Shift has nothing new to offer to the consumer. In fact it's way behind its latest competitors in both size AND battery life AAAAANNNNDDDD it's STILL not out.

Well done HTC for creating the Atari Jaguar of UMPCs

P.S. Pawel, just out of interest what have you been working on for your own Athena?

looking forward to some linux development :D
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
sorry cant say what i have on my athena. nothing special really. just a few new programs im playing around with in a new rom i made for myself. really just a rom made from myself with a few new things i got. nothing super interesting.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] BengalBoy:
Photo of the Shift's keypad for the Windows Mobile Side of the Device. It runs Windows Mobile Professional and Vista Business.. My full review can be seen here.

http://www.bengalboy.com/modules/ne...ic_id=1040&forum=8&post_id=6404#forumpost6404
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] thaihugo:
Thaks for this interesting review bengalboy, but doesn't this screen looks like a PIN code keypad? It seems normal to me to have this as the sim will definitly ask for it's PIN code. It doesn't mean you can access the phone pad by itself. But maybe you have another screenshot for this?
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
Hi bengalboy,

I've read the user manual from page to page and could not find any phone feature at all. Your post is the only one on web suggesting you could make call,although the screen seems too crude for a phone (no video call button, for example. Also, with it's high screen I would expect the list of contact to be shown on the same screen). Could you either post a video to show you using it to make phone call, or alternatively post your copy of the user manual ? I think most of us here still need a more convincing proof of it's phone call capability.

It is possible that your screen is only for pin number entry? Alternatively, HTC may have been having difficulties defining the product and gave up developing the phone half way thus abandoning the effort? I don't see any sense of having phone on device of this size myself, hence I would be extremely surprise that HTC would think it makes business sense to have it. I'm making this guess purely from business rather than technical viewpoint.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] BengalBoy:
Sorry, bandwidth problems at time of posting.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] BengalBoy:
Sorry, bandwidth problems.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] BengalBoy:
If you read my review, you will get my thoughts in detail on the phone operation of the Shift. Personally, I think it would be a mistake not to offer the phone as a means of connection while wirelessly online. No sense missing a phone call while your SIM is in the Shift just because it is too large to carry as a dedicated phone.

The phone side of the Shift is too buggy to use. The ROM details are posted on my site and just the insertion of the SIM card, and, I used many including 3G data cards, would send it to "Blue Screen" 9 times outta 10. Taking the SIM card out makes the SHift a very Hott and Sexy UMPC that works really well. Leaving the SIM in makes the Proto unstable and difficult to use when exploring its capabilities. (see my review)

Some reasons I think it will have a phone capability.

1. Hardware is supposed to be on-board for the GSM networks. When the SIM didn't lock up the device, the WM6 Professional does have phone settings just as those of any other WM6 device and automatically wants to setup connection, SMS, and MMS settins for a Network.

2. Conference camera makes no sense to me without it. MSN & AOL video or VOiP video conferencing seems alittle "out there" as the only reason for including a video camera. Additionally, not everyone will have 3G data available which means Quad Band radios for EDGE and GPRS data transfers. With a mobile operating system side.... I'm sure some of you guys will have it hacked like a Friday 13th thriller in record time!

3. The device goes into a "Mobile Sleep" when the Vista side is shut down. In other words, the battery and buetooth indicator lights still let you know the Mobile Side is on and working. Simply picking up the device and using it will "awaken" it and bring up the WM6 Home Screen just like a phone. In order to get Vista side back up and running you have to power on and go through "re-boot".

Summary, it acts like a phone.... it has a phone operating system,,,, it would be easy to hack the software to make it a phone. However, will HTC make it something else??? I hope not? But, as a laptop,,,, its Da'****!! One pound in weight with a beautiful screen and very easy portability make it the sexiest gadget you'll see this year for wireless....
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
Hi bengalboy,

Thanks for the quick response.

I'm in agreement with you that we should not miss any call. That's why a heavy, big, and battery short device would not make a phone. Most people can't and won't carry it around 24/7 like we would with a light, small, and battery lasting phone.

The three reasons you gave do not appear to convincing proof that it can do phone call, because data connection requires exactly the same three facilities you outlined too.

You said the phone is already working although it is buggy? Does your user manual say that it is supposed to work? It can only be called a bug if the manual says it is supposed to work. Otherwise, it is more like a half done and abandoned feature due to bad product/market definition, and someone not cleaning up an abandoned feature. If your manual says that there is phone feature, could you post it please?

Thanks and regards.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
bangelboy go to the ap dual 3.0 thread the try the cab for snapvue. it should give u back the regular start menu u see in any wm6 device. also that is a touch style dialer for the shift so it looks like the pin pad a bit. Also, you should upgrade your athena to the cooked roms. u'd prob love it even more. If u want to help us out with cooking a shift rom contact me via pm or whatever. we might be able to help you get that phone working better.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spzero:
wow! the rom will probably be released before HTC release the Shift :D way to go guys...
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] saied 1:
hi all

this is my first post :-D

can you guide me

buy an advantage or wait for shift?

if i buy an advantage maybe i cant buy shift

thank you and sorry for my bad english

godbless
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] shobhit_90:
u kno its not clear that shift will have phone or not yet...

so if you can v8 till end of this year... dn v8 and watch what HTC shows us
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] saied 1:
thank you shobhit
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spzero:
its not clear? how???????? iit WILL have phone and gps just read this thread the shift forums and have a good search. Olipro and powel have done wonderz for the athena thewhole community and wonders on most of the various xda's devices i would bet my life savings that it will have phone if they say it will..
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] saied 1:
maybe you'r right spzero but why bengalboy cant make phone call on this??

really for the erly rom?

i hope this device can make phone call but most of the people have it in theyr hand like hugo ortego , chipy steve ,kaz911,Craig Pringle,........ said "THIS ISN'T VOICE CAPABLE DEVICE" i'm realy confused ,you cant find phone options on shift manual , you cant find anything about voice capabality on htc officall site

if you remmeber the steve ballmer interview about shift , the woman asked about how to talk with this he said with bluetooth or......

i hope the shift can make phone call

thank all of you
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
i would bang my head against the wall again but i did it so much that i dont think i can do it anymore. the shift will have both. the shift isnt released and neither is the final rom for it. the roms on devices are still early roms and i believe the wm6 part is still being worked on. bangelboy's device probable didnt work bc like i said the rom isnt final and didnt have everything needed. if i get my hands on a shift i will prove all the things i have said. but till then u must trust me.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] saied 1:
ok pawel thank you ;)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] finesse:
Excellent post!!

Why oh why
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
A picture is worth a thousand words.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
Just LOOK at the size of it and imagine making phone calls on the bloody thing. Unless you had a cranium the size of the Elephant Man call handling on the Shift will be an absurd-looking episode in inconvenience.

I get funny enough looks from the public using my Athena. I also use a case to prevent scratches and scuffs. At least I can remove the Keyboard to facilitate call-handling, though it's still not as nice to take calls on than my Hermes.

With this in a case the device would not only be bulkier but also a nightmare to answer calls on. Sure there's bluetooth headsets etc....but is it REALLY worth the hassle? And won't they flush away even more hours of precious battery juice?
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spzero:
i know weve being thru this. but the FCC has had a submission for a second device type from HTC http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13532 so either they were waiting for approval before being able to ship the Shift with Phone capabilities or they have a V2 comming out only weeks after the release of the initial device as this article suggests, which makes no sense at all, so maybe they can finally relese the damn thing (assuming they sorted the ROM out and Snapview)..
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
bro read through that a bit better. thats the evdo aka cdma shift. the gsm shift as far as i know is coming out soon and has already i believe been approved. too bad no carrier as far as i know is picking it up. people are speculating that the evdo version might be picked up by a carrier but my guess without going to any of my sources is itll be like the hspa version where itll be through htc pretty much and there resellers. i wouldnt bet on a cdma carrier picking it up bc even after contract it would cost probably close to 1K usd and i dont think people would pay that much after a 2 year contract.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] shobhit_90:
any news about this F*kin devece... HTC is Pis*in me off nw... its end of december and still no exact news about release
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
HTC SHIFT's release date is now 2008

See this article:

http://www.mobilehornet.com/archives/677

Probably could'nt make up its mind on what features to include. :D
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] samkatta:
The Shift will not do voice out of the box and that is from HTC. Out of the box it is only a data device, whether voice could be managed later has to be seen.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pantaloonie:
Oh Noes, here we go again..... Samkatta, get your flame proof underpants ready.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
ok thats it. what the adress of the idiots who dare to question mine or olipros sources. u better gate a real flame suit bc we aint scared to confrunt the idiots(those who are un educated im sorry in advanced but im tired of idiots questioning mine and olipros sources. even bangelboy showed his shift's voice abilities):mad: :p
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pantaloonie:
Woah, tell me you were drunk when you typed that....
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] LTxda:
Dude, Polish people are ALWAYS drunk! LOL....so the answer is most likely yes to your question. :)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Midget_1990:
QFT

(this is so i can beat the minimum word limit)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] rockstar:
japanese version

I saw some pics which actually "shift" but, that one has Japanese keybord and os. doesn't have phone function either. and meybe next year HTC japan sell it over there too.

I hope athena project guys(seems Got to me) find a way to use shift as a phone!

When I can use "shift" as a phone, then I definitely donate you guys!

I have really expected what Shift can do as upgrading to 128MB RAM of my uni.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] M M:
I don’t really care about the phone function in the shift (except maybe of what BengalBoy wrote “ No sense missing a phone call while your SIM is in the Shift”).

Anyway it will be nice if it has it.

What is really important for me is the full WM6, so I can run the applications I need AND save battery.

After reading the previous posts I thing that it will be possible (one way or the other ;) ).

But how good PPC it can be with a 400MHz and only 64MB RAM (on that screen) ?

How good GPS it can be (very important for me too) with the Qualcomm Chipset that (as you know) is not exactly as SiRF Star III and 64MB RAM ?

I don’t know.

I really like it, so I will wait to see how it will be. If it isn’t as good as I want, I’ll buy an Athena and I will also take with me my Sony Vaio, when I really need Vista.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
the gps i believe is sirf star III. the ram might suck but remember the processor is the new dual core qualcomm 7200. the wm6 will be full once we get modding. read my post in the shift forums. it details how htc did the snapvue interface and how to give it back full wm6.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] M M:
The shift will have SiRF Star III?

That is good news. Can I also have 128MB RAM please? :D

I would like to ask about the HSUPA. Is a mater of software or hardware? Can be add in a PDA that was not made with it?

Happy New Year. :)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
i am not 100% sure but my guess is that it does(sirf III gps) ram is 64mb though but it wouldnt bother me as i still sometimes use my hermes(well cant not bc my bud has it) and the lack of ram doesnt bother me THAT much.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] M M:
If you don’t have information about the SiRF Star III, then I believe that it will NOT be... (It will be like Kaiser and Polaris and we will buy an external GPS antenna.)

About the HSUPA does anyone know how it works and if we can put it in a PDA that does not have it?

2008 will be the year of HSUPA and there are PDAs that announced that they will have HSDPA and HSUPA (Imate Ultimate 9502).
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
well there are 3 phones with hsupa already out. kaiser, touch dual, and touch cruise. dont know if its enabled in current rom revisions though. i will try to find out about sirf star III though.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] M M:
I don’t know if these phones have HSUPA, but I am sure that it is not working (otherwise it should be 2 Mbps upload speed and not only 384 Kbps). :rolleyes:

www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=151160

6 DAYS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] thaihugo:
1 month!!! we have been playing this game for 6 month now.

HTC is dead. Windows mobile is dying. You can grab you existing device and look at them with love because in two years, they won't exist anymore.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
Why are you so excited??? haven't we established that this machine is a bit lame and 8 months out of date for the money??? Some people just earn to damned much......

If you want a really small pc try this

. It's bloody small and you can get em a lot cheaper than the Shift. It also has a much nicer, higher-res screen. Sure it's not got HSDPA but the battery lasts longer and it's small enough to enable you to keep your cellphone on you!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] M M:
When I posted it was 6 days... (I am new in this game) :(

I was excited because I did want to see the Shift to by it or by something else.

Everybody writes HIS opinion and also everybody is deferent and has deferent needs or preferences (I need a good keyboard more than a good screen).

Money is not a problem for me. :D
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
I get the feeling that HTC shift has completely missed the boat. There are so many better alternative now. Google "CES 2008 UMPC", and you'll find even more solutions, if you're evaluating to buy one.

In any case, a UMPC is not a replacement for a device such as Athena. They serve very different needs IMO.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
Nice to see my old post still going strong :)

I have been on the EEE and LG viewty combo for a good view weeks now and can honestly say that i am really glad i made the move to split the 2 functions of phone and laptop or laptop type device.

I now listen to far more music than i ever did on my Ameo simply due to the size of the viewty, also the DIVX playback is flawless.I even talk more on the phone as it is actually usable as a phone!

I am also enjoying the full XP experience in a highly usable small format and to be honest NOTHING could make me go back to WM6!

I tend to leave the EEE at work during the week and use the viewty as a modem. I take it home on weekends or if im going away somewhere.Even if i needed to use it all the time it would be fine as its so light

I just dont think the whole phone and laptop combined works based on my 7 months with the Ameo,and i think the SHIFT would be an even BIGGER pain as a phone and is too expensive and short battery lifed as a laptop.

I think it has basically missed the boat 9 months and counting!

My bet is EEE type machines will become hotsellers as the prices DROP drastically. Soon a EEE size machine with a 32gb SDD and an HSDPA module will come out with full XP already on it for about £400.

people are generally more conservative than many think and will much more readily take to a 'LAPTOP type' machine than something that looks a bit funny.

The SHIFT is VERY VERY niche imho and is knackered by the short battery life for something so expensive