yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bronx:
...

I just dunno what to say. do You read anything in here at all?? if htc would decide to release kaiser with full monty option, then it would be much more expensive.

when You are buying a new car, and You don't have money for a/c, leather, dvd etc. are You bashing the seller for not providing it for free?

c'mon ppl... WAKE UP! it is all about the money.

please, remind me again where was stated, that kaiser is going to use hardware 3d accel.? I understand that that is the thing most of us moan about now. most of us agreed, that video problem is more or less solved by coreplayer (and probably upcoming fix from htc) and most of us are quite happy with interface rendering speed (read opinions about some 6.1 roms), so....

anyway- in my opinion we need to get in touch with qualcomm about wider support. maybe, just maybe there's a small chance, that someone down there will hear us crying. some leaked drivers anyone?? ;)

br

bro
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Comp1demon:
I tend to disagree....

If you buy a New car with a 300HP engine and the manufacture charges you say $30k for the car - It includes the cost of that high output engine. Then the Manufacture Locks out the full use of all 300 Horses to say 175HP and tells you for $5,000 more you can unlock the other 125 - I Would walk away.

The cost of the 300 hp engine is already in the price of the car - noone would put in something and lock out half it's power and not make enough on the sale to cover the part then hope they can get more cash out of you to unlock it's full potential.

If you spent $500 - 800 on a HTC tytan II / Kaiser / tilt - As I did - I think that if the hardware is capable of doing something more.. then fine you owe it to me to let me unlock the potential...

Now I will say this...... If a ton of money and development has gone into getting the most out of the hardware (PHONE / CAR ENGINE) and it is put into the price of the product and when you buy it you get it's full potential and then later on they figure out how to squeeze a bit more out of it - at an additional reseach cost - then they have the right to charge for an UPDATE.

I know with most COmputer controlled cars these days - you can tweek the Fuel / air mixture ratios / algorythims to get more power - If a Car manufacture gives you all you can get from the 300HP engine for $30,000 and say 8 months later has a Computer update that allows the engibe to output 340HP - then the manufacture has an OPTION to charge you for it.

In my example - if you just spent $30k for a car with 300hp and 8 month later you can get 340hp with a SOPFTWARE UPGRADE - you would expect the manufature - (especially if it is under warranty) to update your CAR for FREE and pass the additional cost onto the new consumers who are just adopting that particuar car.

Same with phones here. If HTC can make our phones run better with the hardware we already paid for within a year or 2 I would expect early adopters to get that upgrade for free or a very minimal cost. Then pass on the additional development cost to New HTC owners by raising the price (based on sales over time vs remaining life on that model) so many dollars that it pays for the research.

This also creats consumer confidence in the brand. If I get kick ass performance from my HTC though an update for free cause I adoped the product early - then I will be more inclined to buy a newer model a year or so down the road cause I know the Manufature cares about my experience with it's products.

Your A/C leather DVD add on example is wrong.. my engine example is more on point on what you are tring to get across. Anyways hope I make sense to you all.

Lastly - IM quite new to the whole smartphone thing - but I am learning fast. Been a WIn Modble user for some time on a standalone device. I am learning about my TILT very quickly and having fun with it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] :
Are you comparing a Kaiser to an STI? Because I can tell you which manufacturer I think went to a lot more effort to extract performance. Nothing in that car seems to have been intentionally crippled at all, and fortunately, you do have options to improve it if you so desire.

I'll make the suggestion, that many manufacturers nickel and dime a product to literally save a few pennies per device. I doubt the ATI license per device is that much, but if there's a couple hundred thousand more dollars HTC doesn't have to pay, it sure seems like they are making a conscience effort to really bring scrooge to the next level. I think they gambled poorly with their implementation of this device, and customers will look for other more competitive options. I know all of you will at least.

-Jimbo
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pmuschi:
I hope this isn't old information, but it doesn't seem so.

http://www.phonemag.com/htc-react-to-video-driver-furore-fix-coming-but-no-imageon-021273.php
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bronx:
pheew... finally someone got it... ;)

and for the next poster: that is just what I was thinking. they will release tweak and that's it. nothing more. if You want them to suffer, don't buy htc anymore. I'm afraid, that no legal action is going to be smart enough to beat them and their money... :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
All I'm gonna say is THANK GOD that my STi was made by Subaru and not HTC.

Phew.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
D_mm that's realy horrible news :(

No drivers add all just a software fix aaaarghhhh...

I think WM6.1 already has this fix, so nothing much to expect :(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] :
Mmmmmmm. Tastey after market parts. I live by Cobb, it's been great fun.

-Jimbo
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Hey even though you're a HTC apologist, let the people who want 2D (two) acceleration, that most previous devices supported, get it because they paid for it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bronx:
hey. even tho' You are a htc hater read more and realise, that fix is on it's way. what's the matter with You? I was always saying, that any extra speed would rock.

I am not an apologist. I just simply use my grey matter for reading and thinking. my Mom didn't raise me for a basher, especially if I understand the situation between qc, htc and final users. it's quite ****ty, but we cannot do much, mr. senior poster/flamer... :/

and I do have a right to have my own opinion, so...

anyway

br

bro
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Pure sexinessss ^^

Back to the topic :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Ok children, let's have a group hug :D

Here's the deal.

On a serious note, we can all agrue till hell freezes over, fact is - some people expect more and feel that they deserve drivers, and some feel that HTC gave them what they have paid for.

There is no right or wrong, since you can't prove either one - it's a matter of expectations and feelings.

Here is the deciding fact - BOTH HTC-lovers and HTC-haters would LOOOOOVE to have drivers on their Kaisers. Even HTC CEO would love to have drivers on his Kaiser (if he owns one :D).

So, whether you think HTC did right or wrong, you NEED to help the effort of getting drivers by WHATEVER means nessesary. If it means for HTC-lovers to bash HTC, then so be it. If it means for HTC-haters to transfer their hatred from HTC to QC, then so be it.

Back to the topic people, we need those drivers so start using ur brains towards the issue.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bronx:
lmao :D

amen to this brother!

I cannot leave uk at the moment, because of my one week old son (thank You ;) ) but I would join the crowd heading for QC hq with torches and pitchforks.

btw: has anyone allready tried to get in touch with them bout some private support?

br

bro
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ?Glitch:
1 of 2 things occurred....

1. HTC released a product to a bunch of geeks long before it was ready, possibly evidenced by QC recently looking or a driver author, interesting thought being in that position being that HTC considers their API top secret in effect preventing Windows CE from being an open architecture... (would probably be put off like Bush Co acting in "your best interest in safety, heh, and 'privacy'...) -F*ckWhits...

2. HTC planned to release new drivers on old chipset boasting of higher resolution and faster video performance, knowing we would eventually strip drivers from newly released ROMS, but that just ain't what we as a pack of geeks want when it comes to buying a flagship product...

BUT... Both of these things are besides the point, fact is, they disclosed the chipset and in doing that, disclosed capabilities that should be inclusive in purchasing the hardware (excluding the VGA capabilities as they haven't released the in phone projector as of yet), and could very well have obtained the SDK from QC (and probably did) to employ the accelerated graphics rather than killing the battery by 'cooking' their own lamer software translator module and dumping it on the main processor, it smells of the old past time 'speed-up loop' when thought of from a DEV standpoint, and fits the corp. strategy when it comes down to it 'scheduling profits', all for the Q4 profits submitted to investors to get at that Christmas bonus, fact is, they fuxored that one up, and their investors are going to smell it if they haven't already, they falsely advertised features of 3D graphics, (this implies hardware acceleration to every geek) to a bunch of geeks, that's just bad mojo, now the world is aware there's just about as much honor in Taiwan at HTC as there is liberty in the US...

?Glitch
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fredisco:
I agree with you completely. It's like putting a small band aid on a big infection.

Found this on Gizmodo

http://gizmodo.com/360514/htc-says-software-fix-is-coming-for-lousy-video-drivers
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tsiros:
we won't get nothing. don't expect nothing. htc doesn't care about features. microsoft doesn't care about features. you should have understood this by now. every time the same happens. a new device is hyped, marketed and released with more or less the same features. once it has been released, it won't bring more money to the company to r&d new software for an old machine. we have 200MHz machines with 32MB ram and GBs of storage yet they don't manage even 486/66 performance. i could play *descent* on my 486. screw this, screw it all. i type TEXT and my wm6 device struggles. TEXT for heavens sake. i could see proper webpages on my 486. not "operamini" pages. not "operamobile" pages.

you want to see just what a given device can do if there is proper software written for it? www.int13.net look at darklaga. it is all software rendered. imagine what they could do with hardware accelerated gfx. the same guys have written a proof-of-concept preemptive multitasking OS for a goddamn 4MHz 128KB *CALCULATOR*. screw it all, once again. look at TheBlackLotus StarStruck demo. it runs on an AMIGA AGA. look at what gifted coders/designers/programmers can do... and then look at this pile of steaming poo. bah. utterly worthless.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] draxredd:
It DOES make sense, as i proposed a few posts ealier, the secondary ARM9 processor runs a linux microkernel (http://www.ertos.nicta.com.au/software/kenge/pistachio/latest/) that provides a hardware abstraction layer to WM6. this layer does seems to cover all peripherals, including video hardware, after all.

Practically, it means that it's not just DLLs that need to be frankensteined, but also a compatible radio, and that's an order of magnitude more difficult.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] coolVariable:
If it is a linux microkernel shouldn't the source be publicly available?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jasperrr:
Congratulations!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Ralph Smeets:
Like I said, at first glance, it doesn't make a lot of sense. From a licensing point-of-view it makes a lot of sense. If it make sense from an architectural point-of-view has to be seen.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] storino03:
No progress is happening with the private developers and hackers because now that the announcement from HTC says a "fix" will be released in March, they will wait to see what it enhances and then go from there.

--James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] stolli:
when was this announcment made? i thought the fix that was supposed to come out is not going to have any drivers, just little hot fixes
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] p51d007:
I think the "fix" that is suppose to come out has to do with screen refresh, and response of the icons, etc, which from what I've read is going to be a software

tweak, but nothing for 3D acceleration.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] JC_Carrillo:
Oh come on

Hey guys, read this

http://www.theunwired.net/?item=fix-htc-to-optimize-video-issues-with-a-software-fix-only

Incredible!!!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bl4d3:
thank you JC_Carrillo for the link. it sounds good to me (fix), maybe we all have to learn to live without the ati imageon driver. i don't think anyone here get a driver from another mobilephone working or is capable to write his own driver with the 7400$.

i assume that we all have to wait until the next new generation of htc mobilephones is coming, as htc stated: HTC will utilize hardware video acceleration like the ATI Imageon in many upcoming products.

sounds bad, i know. but at the end we all are non-qualcomm- and non-htc-employees and haven't the required background informations we need, to realize this driver project.

but hey, we have learned one thing: with pressure from customers, a company will think about their product-issues and do something against it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] 4Site:
It's so obvious they were gonna milk the same cow/chip for additional products for good while into the future. Never once have HTC denied that it is possible to enable Hardware Accellaration they have said on many occassion that they won't. I mean they already have our money for this device, why pay out extra for drivers now, thats their attitude

I'll enjoy my Tytn II but as soon as my contract is due for renewal i will run as far as I can from HTC. Hopefully enough people will boycott HTC for them to realise that exploiting customers isn't something you do if you want to be successful.

Roll on nvidia and your new platform hopefully someone else apart from HTC will make a device utilising it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] belon_cfy:
HTC said the software fix will be coming soon in March with dramatically increase the scrolling and viewing performance, does it mean increase the 2D rendering speed for gaming and movie?

Have anyone tried "ARGENTUM: This is war", "AOE gold edition", SkyForce, Neogeo , CPS2,SNES emulator performance? what is the frame rate per sec ?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] WizeMan:
Probably that "fix" will give nothing more than the video - graphics performance of most of the cooked roms out there... I mean... how much better can "scrolling" get?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sirooga:
well android looks like it might help us later

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/28/android-gets-handled-now-with-street-view/

The video says they are using msm7200 chipset with 3d graphics...as you can see in the video they are telling the truth...guess its a wait and see kinda thing. Hope we can use android.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] belon_cfy:
Wow, it is awesome. The Quake running full speed on 300Mhz processor.

Can we flash the kaiser , tytn II from WM to Android and take the full advantage s of 2D,3D accelerator when it release? Then we can throw the Windows Mobile 6 away.:p
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Draiko:
Android is an open platform.. anything is possible!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
From wikipedia on andriod:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
Linux???

However I hope that another operating system may provide to us what microsoft, htc and qualcomm currently deny! Drivers! And as far as I know it would be veery wrong to stick with wm6 and pray! By the way does somebody know if it is possible to backup my current rom? I don't want to have any trouble trying things without knowing that I have my original rom in a safe place!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] draxredd:
crosspostin'

http://git.android.com/?p=linux-msm.git;a=commit;h=e8fd56a303bf5e8f84af80999fa398eb8cc1d670

aka: android has msm hardware acceleration.

somebody reach this rebecca shultz lady, and point her to the bounty thread :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Info and request sent.

I also offered her to register here and post a thread with her take on this.. I pointed to more info on HTCClassAction website and the bounty.

Who is she and where did u find her anyway?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
It appears that she has Google connections with Project: Android. We may share the same goals and she may have the tools to help us in our mission.

We can definitely use this.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Well, now it's up to her.. waiting for her answer
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLCJEYLIBQY

^That sums it up.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
And how is this related...?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
"The Waiting is the hardest part......"
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Ah.. sorry, sound is off at work =)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
400 MHz or another htc lie?

Guys I have a crazy idea! Has anyone checked if our qualcomm main processor is underclocked? Ok HTC says 400 MHz but maybe they are lying about it! Even without drivers I think that an ARM 11 400 MHz processor would be capable enough to outperform ΤΙ ΟΜΑP 200 MHZ in all aspects!

However htc touch seems to be more efficient than our powerhouse!

Unfortunately there is another very annoying issue! Is it possible that our main processor needs software from qualcomm in order to perform as expected?

I hope that there are answers to these questions! PLS Chainfire or any other ppc guru can you confirm or take objection to these ideas? Is it possible for a strong main processor like ours to underperform so much that even playing a video or a simple ppc game like spb's arkaball is a hard task? Is it possible a 400 MHz processor to be so slow when we scroll text? For God's sake it's still a 400 MHz processor what we' re talking about! In addition older ppcs lacked a graphics processor unit as well! WTF is happening here?

If what I say is right then this issue isn't just about graphics! It's a main processor unit failure! And maybe we can prove more easily that HTC deceived us! PLS do some tests if possible! If our processor isn't 400 MHz after all imagine what will happen next for HTC! Additionally is more important for us to understand why our main processor is underperforming! Don't forget that our main processor is the only part that operates right now. Even if someday we manage to resurrect our GPU our devices will continue to underperform if our cpu is so weak!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] aksd:
TPCMP says its at 400Mhz sometimes even crossing that and runnin at about 415-420Mhz
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
Thx for your quick answer, but is really TCPMP a trusted app for measuring a CPUs speed? If it is, then why our kaisers suck so much? Forgive me but I can't believe it's just drivers! TI OMAPS don't have drivers and they are by far better! I bet that if you try to run an emulator on a touch it will perform more fps than our kaiser! And htc tries to convince me that I have two main cpus one arm9 for radio reasons and one arm11 400 MHz for apps! GIVE ME A BREAK!!! The only thing that seem to be more possible is that only one cpu is operating due to the lack of proper qualcomm software but I can't be sure wich one! Now if the arm11 is operating alone then it may have architectural malfunctions! I CAN'T OTHERWISE EXPLAIN THIS PHENOMENON.

Regarding HTC's fix, do you really believe that there was any possibility for them to accept that they should have included qualcomm drivers? I think not because then it would be like saying "sorry for delivering an uncompleted product"! So even if they include drivers in this fix they're talking about, they will not admit that these drivers are included! Please somebody inform me... Is it possible to correct any of these issues only with registry fixes? I think not!

I'm really expecting chainfire or any other guy with engineering knowledge to discuss these issues because I really think we didn't really understand the nature and the size of these problems!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Well, battery status shows 400 MHz as well..

I mean I don't think it's running at anything else, but I would agree that it's worth a quick check.. just to put this as ease.

Anybody has a good way of testing actual clock?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
Another question is: Is it possible that the second arm9 cpu is overclocked at 400 MHZ and the arm11 (the main cpu that is) is idle? Yes we see 400 MHz

but which cpu operates is unknown! Is it possible for the radio cpu to be overclocked by htc? Is it possible that radio cpu do all the tasks and our true arm11 400 MHz cpu remains idle? And if this sounds like science fiction maybe it is! It's our nightmare! Else how can somebody explain why this device sucks? I'm all ears to hear something convincing because this fairy tale about drivers and graphics acceleration doesn't sound like a possibility for this mess! PLS don't see only the MHz thing! Is there anyone who can answer to this questions?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
it doesn't suck, besides, 3d graphics acceleration has nothing to do with this
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
That is what I'm saying! 3d acceleration has nothing to do with this mess! And this device sucks my friend! Even without 3d/2d it should be capable of playing a video file at least with ease! Plus that it should produce more fps for games and emulation than ti omaps! Don't you think?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] demented_goose:
In my pc at home i have a radeon x1950xtx - not the best graphics card in the world by todays standards, but still up there fairly near the top in my opinion. Now if i install windows and leave off graphics drivers, despite having a powerful CPU, CPU and a large amount of video memory, scrolling through web pages and folders is exactly as it is on my kaiser. Video playing and 3D games on the other hand are completely unusable. Once these drivers have been installed everything becomes smooth.

I think that goes to show that you could have a supercomputer in a tardis inside your phone but if the phone can't properly access all this power then its completely useless. I can't see a reason why the processor wouldn't be running at the correct clock speed, every problem i've found with mine could be related to a lack of drivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
You can't possibly try to persuade me that the device I had since it came out and the one I use every day for every possible task I can imagine sucks. I just don't agree with that. Sorry.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Tna:
Νο... Omap TI is slower than TyTN2...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
Anybody got a proper dump of the wce_rex.dll from the Kaiser and the KS20?

The Kaiser's wce_rex.dll is different in that it has a RexGetVirtualAddress(unsigned, unsigned) function whereas on the KS20, it's get_virtual_address(unsigned, unsigned, unsigned), so any programmer can see that it's going to be a problem ...

This is one of the reasons why the KS20 video driver .dlls don't work if you just copy them over.

I would really appreciate a proper copy of the files from either, or both, if anybody wants to see movement on this end. Thanks.

Attached is a fixed-for-Kaiser msm_clk.dll as a teaser: