yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] TheEngineer:
True....

A better alternative, in a high tech company, is a well balanced scientist or engineer with knowledge of accounting as CEO then a accounting/marketing person with a superficial knowledge of science.

Most Accounting/marketing people would struggle to add a engineering/scientific degree to their resume while most scientists and engineers could probably be able to add a business degree to their resume without much difficulty. Hence its more practical as well.

Current practices dictate by empirical data, that it is FAR more profitable to create a cheap product with large profit margin and later do damage control with marketing hype then it is to create a superior product with a lower profit margin and longer development time.

Hence, as long as marketing people with a lack of vision continue to take over key positions in companies they can always justify that profits are higher with them in charge.

Hence, with a generally gullible public, corporations don't need to be honest. Look at GM, Ford, Chrysler etc... staying afloat with inferior products compared to Japanese products by using marketing hype, racism and patriotic feelings. (clever use of Hollywood movies and commercials).

Companies are born from motivated visionaries and then horded and rapped by business men.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Subversive Asset 2.0:
Well, generally, that's what happens (engineer -> CEO) in a high tech firm. You're acting as if the accounting major is CEO of HTC...no, it's the engineering major who is. So you already show that you have no knowledge of how the industry actually works. HTC's chairwoman is an IT major; HTC Foundation's chairman is an electronics engineering major; the CEO of HTC also is an electronics engineering major. Quite simply, you're attacking accounting majors baselessly. I'm calling you out on it.

What I'm saying that even an engineering major with an MBA (and therefore some business knowledge) will need an accounting department...or they will at least outsource this functionality to another company if they want to streamline their core functionalities. They definitely need financial accountants (this is NECESSARY) if they want to be publicly traded, and even if they don't, they have to report for tax purposes. Your beef, however, is with managerial accounting (accounting used to make decisions inside the company.) But once again, you fail to understand the importance of this.

The reason managerial accounting is something most companies invest in, even though it (unlike financial accounting) is COMPLETELY unnecessary to run a business, is because if you want to be more profitable than you currently are, managerial accounting is how you do that. So, you want to have managerial accountants who have a lifetime of experience with that. Just like your core engineers most certainly should have a lifetime of experience with their field.

Guess what: information systems is the primary field that bridges the gap between business and accounting and the technical aspects. This too, isn't necessary, but if you want to have the smoothest operating business, you have an IT AND MIS department.

So, don't blame the CFO and the accounting controller for what the engineer does. Don't blame either of them for what their CEO (who is an engineer) finally decides. The CFO and controllers just make suggestions based on what is profitable and back it up with the data; it's not like they are the ones who decide what to build and how to build it.

So, it probably escapes you, but your attacks of marketing people with "a lack of vision" is baseless and unfounded. You have no idea how the business world (especially for high tech firms) works and it shows. Blame your precious engineers who care more about making a buck than delivering a superior product. Don't blame the objective numbers that fuel their greed.

You try to make a zing on GM, Ford, Chrysler, but you fail to realize that GM, Ford, and Chrysler's errors are ENGINEERS' errors. The accountant doesn't tell them to make an inferior product. IN FACT, the accountant and marketer is the one who says, "Because YOU have made and inferior product, look at how much marketshare you are using!"
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Whatever the case, it's anybody's guess at this point whether drivers will be released and if those will be drivers or software fix that will be useless.

Let's hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Meaning - treat it as excellent news, but continue working on solutions/press coverage.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Rambalac:
The same thing for all chips for Windows Mobile

Most(99%?) of PDAs have no proper drivers neither for D3D nor for GDI

NVidia and ATI are in the same situation

For example NVidia. I have EM-ONE which was "developed together with Sharp and NVidia". It has no D3D driver (except reference), the only "acceleration" they made for GDI is BitBlt. There is no so well advertised video decoding acceleration.

I have registered as Handheld developer to get NVidia's SDK. SDK has NOTHING about video decoding. Then about OpenGLES2.0 which was also advertised by NVidia, all demo programs dont work in portraite mode, 2 samplase make PDA to die til battery unplugging.

Seems it's MS policy to have sh.ty PocketPCs. No concurency?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] intothevoid:
i sent questions regardin this to htc support first as a tilt user and second as a TYTN II user. here are the responses:

"Thank you for your inquiry,*

*

The graphics*portion of the AT&T 8920 is a function of the Microsoft Windows Mobile 6 operating system. At this time we are unaware of Microsoft's plans regarding graphics for future Windows Mobile operating systems.

I hope we have answered your question in detail. Feel free to contact us again if you have any further questions."

Second Response:

"Thank you for your inquiry about the HTC TyTN II.

*

Unfortunately we will not be releasing any graphics related updates in the future.

I hope we have answered your question in detail. Feel free to contact us again if you have any further questions."

well as can be seen the responses are not positive. but hopefully some sort solution will come forth in the future. maybe some of the other htc devices based on the same chipset as kaiser will be released with better drivers and we can just take them out of there roms.

Anyone wants me to continue asking them this question in a different way?

*
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] pjwilkin:
What a wonderful reply "answered your question in detail" indeed ... they just said "No"

If this is HTC's attitude it surely sucks

Having just got my Tytn II / Vario III, I feel almost abandoned

The video and camera are appalling because of lack of decent drivers, this makes this product perform poorly, especially when compared to the Nokia N95, which has a superior camera and abilities

One can only hope HTC look at these forums and realise they have made a mistake. I doubt it'd be too hard for them to release a .CAB file of improved drivers, let alone a new ROM
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] draxredd:
Those answers' tone sure is wierd, almost rude in their shortness. Let's hope Menneissys' exposition will grant us a more complete (and positive) attention from HTC techies.

Oh, well... looks like we'll sooner be running Androïd on the Kaiser than having directX support.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] intothevoid:
Hopefully Menneisyys's attention to this goes a long way.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Bratag:
I hear that. The demo video looks amazing and the SDK is easy to use/understand, or at least I thought so.

I assume noone has heard anything from qualcomm on this. if I read one more PDF about how their chips have blazing fast 3d etc I am going to vomit.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
I guess HTC is too busy counting their money in the bank. Why release drivers for a device thay already made their money on? I guess I'll have to vote with my wallet and find another device next time. Guess I should have gone with the Toshiba G900 after all. slow VGA beat slow QVGA, right??
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] GTRoberts:
I think its more that they did not truly understand the questions. Remember, your email would have only been handled by front-line staff and not the technical team.

I would suggest emailing with greater detail.

Cheers, Glen

Model: KAISER

Rom: Dutty's Hybrid WWE

Rom Date: 11/06/07 (UK Format)

Radio: 1.27.12.17

Protocol: 22.45.88.07H

OS: WM6 OS 5.2.1921 (Build 20000.0.7.0)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
that really sucks.. has HTC or microsoft not noticed this? do game designers not realize this when they use the stylus in games? such as COD2?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
actually this doesnt tell us too much. I remember when there has been questions asked about if the hermes would ever get a wm6 upgrade, the answer was no.

same goes with the o2 XDA Graphite, the answer was no.

but eventually the 2 of these got them.

so i guess wel just wait and see what happens.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Pops_G:
I think Glen is exactly right. I have worked in customer service / tech support before. Here is how it plays out.

*Email comes in to CS rep, they glance it over and don't understand it clearly.

*CS rep turns around and asks their manager how to respond to it.

*Manager having heard nothing about this issue before and not getting any memos from higher up about future releases, informs the CS rep to respond that no fixes or patches are planned. Which happens to be exactly right.

Now there are 2 ways to get around this.

1) Get very lucky and get a CS rep that truely understands the issue and goes the extra mile to pass this problem up the flag pole. It gets to the developers and they realize is a real problem and work on it.

Odds of this happening 1,000,000/1

2) CS reps start to get flooded with this question over and over and begin to complain to their managers it is taking a lot of their time. Managers pass on the problem up the flag pole...

Odds of this happening 100,000/1

Make no mistake, the people who will consider this a problem are a very, very small minority. The only way around that is to be a very, very loud minority as well.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] :
So I have a question about the last few posts... How is it constructive or helping us get an accelerated video driver for our Kaisers?

-James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iservealot:
Well perhaps we would have better luck finding support for the ATI Imageon hardware with the future of Android
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Menneisyys:
Yes, HTC (it's purely a HTC issue as several other WinMo-based PDA's don't have these problems at all - I've made some serious research into this by testing all my PDA's in this respect) has realized it (i've been pushing this issue in the PPCMag and other mediums followed by HTC) but either considered the problem non-fatal or they just can't fix it.

They do too - at least the majority of them. Unfortunately, there are some games where screen dragging just can't be avoided and can't be emulated by say, a stylus tap and a button press&hold.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Bouloama:
Hey guys, what about this graph. I found this in a review of the HTC Cruise, the Polaris on the same platform (Qualcomm 7200) As the Kaiser is.

Notice:

Sounds like they did some tweaking on the Cruise/polaris...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jgermuga:
I am surprised they would consider it non-fatal, especially if it affects both camera and video playback. With the Nokia getting a lot of hype, you'd think this would eventually come up in a review and it would sway some buyers.

It is hard to relate Bouloama's graph to something tangible, but it does provide a valuable comparison. I wish these types of stats were more effectively published. As some others have said in other threads, they have not misrepresented their product per se, since the specs published are accurate concerning a 3MP camera, and a 400mhz processor, but as we have since learned, video playback is nearly crippled on this device. It's akin to a car manufacturer telling you thier motor puts out 400hp, but neglecting to tell you there is only one gear in the tranny and the maximum speed is 25mph.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Menneisyys:
Perhaps they consider the Kaiser (and, as far as other 2.8" devices are concerned, ALL of them, as far as the touch screen bug is concerned) as a non-multimedia / gaming device? If it's so, that's certainly bad news as, currently, there's not any (decent) Windows Mobile device with gaming-friendly controls (no stylus bug) and/or 3D hardware support.

HTC shouldn't go the Nokia way - that is, wildly separating the Enterprise (E) and the eNtertainment (N) series. Actually, if the Nokia E90 had stereo speakers and a camera of the same (unbeatable) quality than the N95 and it was also appointed part of the Next Gen N-Gage platform, I'd have gone for it (instead of the N95).

Nokias are, in general, much better for gaming and, not taking the lack of WMV support into account, multimedia, particularly now that CorePlayer is also developed for the platform. Too bad HTC doesn't understand we also need gaming, 3D, FM radio and multimedia capabilities (for example, STEREO speakers like those of the N95). While the Universal and the Wizard still had stereo speakers (which work wonderfully with stereo widening codecs), later models only have mono buzzers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] draxredd:
Agree, time to find a Polaris tester/early adopter and go frankenstein over the drivers.

@Menneisyys : I gather the concept is called "artificial market fragmentation", and is touted as enlarging sales volume as long as it goes unnoticed.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Menneisyys:
Yup, it is. With Nokia, I think, it's still counter-productive. I don't think an E90 (the current top-of-the-line enterprise model) user would ever buy an additional N95 (8GB) (the current high-end gaming / entertainment / consumer model) just to be able to have a VERY nice video camera & acceptable stills camera & VERY good, loud and stereo media player & Next Gen N-Gage gaming console, all in a lightweight, very nice handset. These stuff could have been built into the E90 right away. Then, many more serious users would have considered the E90, while the "rest" (the ones not needing the built-in keyboard or the hi-res screen) would have stayed with the N95.

The problem with HTC is that HTC seems to have entirely forgotten the "entertainment" users and only seems to produce stuff for "enterprise" users (an analogy: Nokia would only have released the E90 but not the N95). No high-quality (video!) camera, no stereo, loud speakers (the Wizard and, even more importantly, the Universal did have them - why on earth did they drop it? Stereo speakers are freaking nice if you use a media player supporting stereo widening - just listen to how the N95 plays music through the speakers and you'll se why this is so important), no FM radio, no software support for 3D acceleration, no bug-free touchscreen (CPU usage problems - for two years now). Should HTC include / fix all these stuff / problems in the Kaiser (and, at the same time, significantly decrease its weight to at least try to match that of the N95 (120g)), it would be far more appealing.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Steveborough:
My 8125 (Wizard) had clear full screen video playback but since the 8525 and now my Tilt full-screen video playback has been horrible.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] :
I got a hold of a windows mobile 6 rom for the Sprint Mogul, which I beleive is the MSM7500 chipset. I was able to extract the rom in to varios .nbh files, but as far as the OS.nb file that contains the OS, I can't figure out how to extract that out further.

I want to see if their OS contains some form of accelerated D3D.dll but I can't figure out what tool to use to extract these individual .nb files.

Any help?

-James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Menneisyys:
1. About video decoding, you might want to drop a line to the CorePlayer folks; hope they have some info.

2. in the GLBenchmark tests, the EM-ONE fared equally well than the Flame (and other GF 5500-based models) and far better than purely software-rendered solutions (and about 3 times slower than 2700G / PowerVR-based ones). That is, there must be 3D acceleration support enabled.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] yasmeene:
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,58447

Heheh, thats the famous HTC response
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
umm no, that's a new article referring to another news article which is old (by internet standards ;))

still no direct quotes though
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Snowreaper:
Would this work? http://www.sierrawireless.com/product/mc878x.aspx

It says "The tri-band MC8780 and MC8781 PCI Express Mini Cards, built using the MSM7200™ Mobile Station Modem™ chipset from QUALCOMM"

and they also say Key Features

* World class product performance, quality and reliability

* Solid documentation, tool development and consultation services

* Solid support for device integration and verification

* Comprehensive SDK and enabling software <=== Maybe what you need?

* Flexible driver strategy with NDIS support and non-NDIS abilities

I've been looking at the Tilt vs the iPhone, the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on the Tilt is this damn video issue. Hope this helps.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] storino03:
That's for a PCI Express modem card that has the chipset in. I doubt an Aircard modem will utilize 3D Hardware Acceleration for laptops that usually have it already.

--James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
Never say never. The most unlikely of things can be hidden when we least suspect it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] fisha21:
The modem might not use it, but the SDK might still contain useful information. However, according to the same product page (emphasis mine, not theirs!):

"To simplify and expedite product development cycles, Sierra Wireless also provides system integrators and OEM customers comprehensive software development kits (SDK)"

I'm guessing emails from end-users won't achieve much!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Rudegar:
himalaya have the org ati chip not sure if it's the same as qualcomm got onchip

but as i recall it only did 2d stuff so i would not really expect it to speed d3d or ogl up much...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] iatropoul:
I have an idea maybe silly but it's still an idea! Can we ask qualcomm to release the drivers commercially? Maybe in a cab form? I think it would be very profitable for qualcomm to sell their drivers to end users in retail form! Please don't answer it's impossible! I think someone, maybe chainfire, could make the inquiry to qualcomm and lets see if qualcomm is willing to help us!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
that'd be good. However, they'll probably have a problem with that because of the lawsuit that they lost. These chips are part of it, aren't they?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bronx:
I was thinking the same thing... and I just wonder what would they say?

what would be the price..? I think, that 7.5 K$ may be not enough... :rolleyes:

on the other hand a promise from qualcomm to write it for money would probably encouraged more of us to donate bigger sums.

honestly - I would pay even up to 100 gbp for full chip functionality.

br

bro
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
And a lot of people would pay top $$ for full functionality.

We need someone calling companies that can make drivers and offer them a project and get a price quote. I've done that with several companies, many didn't reply at all, rest wanted much more money than 10K. Qualcomm however, pretty much HAS the driver. All they need to do is sell it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bronx:
oh yes... I believe that it's quite obvious, that they wouldn't advertise this chip that way without allready prepared support.

... ofcourse for those who are willing to pay for it.

once again I want to remind all of You guys, that it is a very complicated case. the most probable scenario is that it is not qualcomm's fault, that kaiser is more or less sluggish, because htc didn't want to pay for advanced drivers. on the other hand, we cannot blame htc for not paying for 3d, as they have never promised, that kaiser is going to be capable of it.

so that driver fix in march (if it will ever happen) is more likely going to be some tweak for general 2d rendering and qtv.

qualcomm might want quite a lot for drivers. imagine - if htc couldn't/didn't want to afford it, then bunch of geeks (yupp... that's what we all are ;) ) won't be probably able to pay for it.

just my 2 cents

br

bro
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
There's 2 problems with that idea that you're not considering - One: pricing policies for mega-corporation and end-users are completely different. Two: there's one HTC and many, many, many end-users. It piles up.

I'm all for trying to reach qualcomm and try to persuade them in selling these drivers.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bronx:
whoa..!

don't get me wrong! I am more than happy to hear from them (QC) about what they think. I am not trying to discourage anyone to do that. these were just my thoughts. I am only being realistic. ;)

anyway - if anyone is able to give them a buzz or whatever to check if there is any way of sellin' us this sh... we all need, then we'll be gratefull.

maybe they could even find some other solution for us?

br

bro
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] invasion13:
We mustn't be naive,

a lot of people here are flashing their rom with wm 6.1 , they didnt buy as an upgrade and which is not available "officially" (yet) for their wm 6.0 device.

So if Qualcomm is inclined to sell its drivers , it couldnt be

by "one customer upgrade form", a few hundred will pay and many others will "copy" it.

So, except if we could reach an huge bounty amount, they wont sell them,

to my point of view.

regards
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Snowreaper:
I was thinking the same about the SDK, you never know what might be in there. And at least now there is proof that there is an SDK for that chip.

As for the OEM customer thing, just call Sierra, say "Hello i'm so and so from made up company, i need to purchase a few chips and your sdk for an upcoming product.". Its not like theres a background check involved, and they certainly don't have some sort of master list of companies and developers to say otherwise. ;)

As for the delivery address you could use a PO Box. I can't imagine the packaging would be too big.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Snowreaper:
Also what about these guys? http://www.gdpicture.com/products/g...-activex.php?gclid=CK2rw5uj2ZECFRQuYAodmnlzYg

They say their graphics SDK works for any windows 32 or 64 bit enviroment. Windows CE is 32bit is it not?

I'll shut up now.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] OpenSource87:
That's awesome that so many are willing to pay top dollar for the drivers, but here is the problem I see. We already spent ALOT of money on this phone, and I sure as **** am not spending anymore on a driver they should have included from the get go It's pretty sad when after buying one of the most capable phones released we have to raise a bounty to get drivers that every other phone has from the factory. Ridiculous.