yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
I agree with both Eaglesteve AND Spacecat here. I suspect someone at HTC HQ has been shot for this disaster of a device: if it had been pitched to Dragons' Den they would have said: sorry, already been done. Ages ago.'

The new OQO is about 250 quid more, but has much more to offer. Not only longer battery life but a higher res screen and a neat keyboard. It will also doubtless come down in price before the shift is launched. The Ameo ALMOST got it right, but in comparison to the Shift is a dream come true. Who in the hell would really want to make calls on this monster? who would want Windows mobile on such a BIG device, which is so hard to just slip out and view? and who in their right mind would carry a device which harbours so many important convergent functions and has such an ephemeral battery life?

I appreciate that everyone has their own needs, but I challenge anyone to tell me what this device offers that isn't already out there, or cannot be offered by two devices IN convergence.

Here are one or two options to consider for different people:

The wealthy:

Buy an OqO: it's more prestigious, nicer build-quality and longer battery life. It's more expensive, but since money is no object this needn't be an issue.

Also check out Samsung and Sony's lines for wow factor.

The Mid-Ranger:

Buy an EEE Pc (200GBP) and a pocket pc; alternatively keep your existing pocket pc. For on the go browsing buy a mini BT dongle like this and use a DUN connection, or plug your phone in via USB.

Think of it this way -

EEE pc + Pocket PC = all the functionality of XP, twice the battery life of the Shift PLUS a light phone/wm6 device for reliable call handling/push email etc, with minimum impact on bag weight or practicality.

And for the contented people out there:

Keep your Athena

Let's get it straight: this device is A JOKE. I await an April 1st release date.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
Hi Spacecat,

Looks like you started a rather popular thread, which is why its still going strong.;)

What works best depends on a person's requirements. For most of my relatives, I'd buy them a simple phone, not even one with camera and MP3 because they would never never use those features. They only want to make and receive call, period.

For me, I use all the features of Athena, and wanting more, such as TV, FM and AM. But, don't ask me to carry more separete devices just to get better function. I'd accept less than perfect camera, less than perfect phone, less than perfect browser, etc, but they must be all in one and the same pocketable unit.

For you, all you need is a phone and MP3, but don't need GPS or internet on the go, so many choices are available. You surf your net only at work. To meet your need, most phone plus a desktop computer or notebook would meet the requirement. Asus eee is not as good a solution as compared to normal notebook or desktop. I just upgraded my desktop to have 3GB RAM. Now my son can play Fury with no lag whatsoever. Asus eee will not do. But, I'm not saying Asus eee would not work for you because you have different requirements, which probably do not include playing very sophisticated games. You probably also don't use Asus eee to do architectural drawing like I do with a 22" monitor, top end graphic processor, and large memory. Asus eee is not a full XP machine and does not run all XP software.

I think most Athena users bought this device because it's the only convergent device with a decent size screen at this moment, with no alternative at all in the market place. Once there is a real alternative, I would also upgrade, as I've no loyalty whatsover toward Athena. It's just a tool for me. Not a perfect tool, but still the best today, although I'm sure it won't be in the future.

So, to sum up. Every one has a different requirement and would be happiest with not one device solution, but rather with his or her own choice of device solution.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
I do use internet on the go and the viewty has an excellent browser 'Mini Opera'that shows full web pages and renders them much quicker than my Ameo ever did, the streaming is 10 x better i.e. it actually works without constant buffering.

Also the Video player full DIVX is much better than the AMEO and actually works out of the box with no further software.

Your right about GPS though I dont drive and dont need it , it does have google maps though:)

RE EEE gaming go on youtube and you will see people playing Halflife,Quake, and lots of FPS on the EEE with no lag!also loads of playstation emulation as well

As for it not being a FULL XP machine? Where did u get that from ?

what is a Non FULL XP machine?

Im running XP PRO SP2 and everything i have installed works great

subject to CPU power, obviously its not going to run CRYSIS very well but then most PC's cant do it very well either! If it runs XP it runs XP software.

Not many people in the world probably run Architectural drawing on any computer let alone a laptop ...but if wanted to i would run it on my desktop on my 24 inch dell monitor and full setup.

Basically the EEE can do what 99% of people want to do pretty much 100% of the time in either a Linux or FULL XP environment.

Most laptops cannot run top games . Gaming laptops cost about £1500 + compared to the £220 of an EEE or cheap laptop.

The strength of the EEE is its Portability and FULL XP functionality for the price whcih is currently unbeatable IMHO and the opinion of hundreds of professional reviews
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
Spacecat,

Because you use your Asus eee only at your office, I'm saying the better alternative is a full desktop.

However, if you tell me that you often bring it around, then a different device solution is called for.

That's why I said that it depends on your requirement, and it's wrong to push the viewty/Asus eee solution to everyone.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
Spacecat,

For the sake of harmony, I would not respond to all the emotion in your post.:cool:

As you said, we can all express our opinion.

My opinion is that, as a deskbound device, whether at office or home, eee PC is too underpowered, too small, and it is not able to be productively used many applications, and does not run all XP-based software due to limitation in video card, memory size, and processing speed. So, I would rather use a desktop for that purposes.

As a mobile device, eee PC is too big, and too power hungry, too cumbersome to get connection. It has to be complemented by another mobile device. The idea of carrying both does not appeal to many people looking for a convergent device.

As I have mentioned many times, I do not think Athena is perfect. It does not have the best browser, best camera, best video player, best weight. However, for a person like me who is looking for a convergent device with all functions (and more such as TV, FM, AM), this is still the most complete solution that I know of in the market. A few months down the road, this might change.

I do not have to hack my device in anyway. I just installed some good third party software and I'm truly happy with it. The phone works for me and is not a complete crap. The internet browser does stall at times, but not all the time. For MP3 usage, I use the joystick. Up direction to slightly up the volume, down direction to slightly down the volume, right direction to go to next song, left direction to go to previous song. I press action key to blank the screen and prevent accidentally upsetting the player, and am perfectly happy with it as a player. I do not want XP to run on it like you do because XP is IMO not a suitable OS for a mobile device.

You do not like Athena and have moved on. It meets my needs most comprehensively at the moment.

Have a nice day.:)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
The EEE is not power hungry. In fact it has twice the battery life of the Shift, with a new 6.5 hour battery ready to be released.

Since this is a post about the Shift and its relative benefits it is perfectly justifiable to tout the EEE as an alternative since it is not a great deal bigger than the Shift and yet is less than a quarter of the price. Both machines have their advantages and disadvantages but personally I'd rather have an EEE which I can reliably use on the go for longer periods than the Shift, coupled with say an Athena or a Kaiser for GPS and Windows Mobile. I believe that this solution, far from being unweildy is actually a great deal more beneficial than having everything in one large device such as the Shift - mainly owing to its battery life, but also its unforgiving size for call handling.

If the device does not carry sufficient juice to get you through the day then it cannot perform effectively as a convergence device.

As regards the Athena, i certainly think it is a better than the shift as a convergence device, both for its battery life, quick power-up and size (relative to its features), but for me its size still proved too much in the end.

To sum up, for 350gbp less than the cost of the Shift I bought an N95, an EEE and a Nokia N800 Internet tablet. This may seem O.T.T. but I don't need all of them all the time. My N95 is my phone. It has a good camera, is easy to text on and has good sound quality. It's browser is fine for internet banking and googling (though not suited to all tastes). It also has plenty of features such as GPS with google maps and tomtom should I need them - not very often in all honesty. For a better browsing experience or when I don't want to carry a bag I can slip the N800 into my pocket. It is very light and very slim. If I have a long train journey or need to do some extensive typing I have the EEE which is light, robust and fully-featured. whichever I use I connect via bt 2.0 EDR for wire-free and effortless integration.

For me this is a great solution as it gives me great flexibility - if I'm on a night out I can just take the n95 with me - no bulk. This is another gripe I had about the Athena (although i did still used to go out with it).

I do accept though that carrying two devices is not to all tastes. For these people the Athena fits the bill.

The Shift however could never be taken out anywhere other than to work - therefore another phone would still be needed. It is really no convergence device since you couldn't get rid of your old phone and use the Shift exclusively.

I am yet to hear a good reason for getting the Shift other than because it is a new gadget, but even this draw is negated by the fact that the device has been superceded by models such as the OqO before it has even been released. I wouldn't be surpised if HTC trash it before it hits the shelves.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
Leoni,

Agree with everything you mentioned.

Regarding Athena's size, carrying it without the keyboard in a belt pouch works very well for me, so size is not an issue.

Agree that Shift is too big to be a convergent device. Even if they build in GPS, camera, phone, AM, FM, TV, and have 8 hours battery life, I'd still not have any interest in it. This is because in my mind the maximum size limit for a convergent device has been breached.

For me, the size must absolutely be limited to a 5" diagonal limit for display. I'd go with a 4.5 " screen, but not any smaller. Some thinks the smallest it is the better it will be, and I don't hold that opinion. It has to be similar to Athena's size or only slightly smaller. The screen size is one area that I think Athena has got it right. However, it can shed some thickness and weight, if production cost permits.

I'm not too excited with the Athena+Shift or Athena+eee solution myself. I like the Athena + notebook/desktop better. At least I can use all my software productively, play all my DVD disks, and my sons can play all their games. However, if one day I'm forced to use XP or Vista only applications regularly on the road, eee would be a good candidates for considerations. Requirements do change over time.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
Ahem.............................:)

Put HSDPA and WIN XP or WM7 and a bit more cpu power on this

http://www.ringnow.com/specifications/o2_xda2i_pda_specifications.html

and u probably have the best sized convergent device there could be.

Is it me or is it suddenly chilly in here?
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
We've got a LOOOOONG wait for windows mobile 7 as idea are still being developed. In a bizarre turn of events, most of thses ideas 'borrow' from the Iphone Gui. So what can we expect from WM7 in a year's time?

Iphone functionality.

By which stage Apple will probably release an Iphone with full Osx application support, HSDPA and a decent camera.

More feasibly Nokia's Touchscreen phones will storm the market: it's not unfeasable since Symbian has more than a 50% share of the Mobile OS market and therefore a growing familiarity with the public.

check this out

Just a note about Windows mobile application support vs Symbian: I've joined a symbian forum and there's tonnes of stuff out there. They've even tapped into the N95 camera's orientation sensor and produced these apps

here

and here

Really cool. I'd like to see where this sort of usage has been implemented with Vuoflo considering Windows mobile has so many developers. The potential is great.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] M M:
:eek: :D :D :D
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
OK just a few remarks from me here:

* the battery life of the EEE is 3.5 hours, using the device normally. The surf (2gb, no webcam) model is only 2.8 hours owing to a lower cell battery. There is a new battery coming out which is 7800mAh - roughly equating to 5.25 hours (see here. Based on normal usage I easily get 3.5 hours out of the EEE so at least 5 hours from the EEE with the new battery is feasible.

* the relative battery life of the EEE is comparable to the Athena in a sense, since I would only get about 3.5 hours' browsing out of the Athena if I was constantly connected.

*the EEE does not support some of the 'push' features you mention Eaglesteve, however since this thread is Shift-related it is worth considering that the Shift would be of little use for this function too as it's battery life - again - falls too short to be relied on.

*I don't wish to add fuel to the fire but I also used to carry the Athena in a bag. I also kept a charger to hand as with heavy browsing over HSDPA the battery drains fairly rapidly over the day. For extensive typing I used a bluetooth keyboard. The combined bulk of these accessories amounted to more than the size of my EEE, and for the purposes I used the Athena eventually I decided a subnotebook would be better, particularly given that selling my Athena gave me enough change to buy a decent cellphone too.

*Eaglesteve I also fail to see how having your exchange rates and share prices on a large screen is anything other than convenient? It will not make much practical difference. The more I think about it the more I think the Athena is no more of a convergence device than any other pocket pc. If anything a smaller device like the Kaiser is MORE of a convergence device, since it does exactly the same thing without the need for waistband holsters and bluetooth headsets. The only thing to set the Athena apart is the screen.

*I don't know about where you come from Eaglesteve but here in the UK the Athena does not hold the wow factor you experience - bemusement perhaps. It is only impressive to those who love gadgets, to the general populace it is a little absurd. I liked the look of it because I'm into that sort of thing, but I was still a bit embarassed to handle calls on it.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
Spacecat: curb the swearing a bit mate, there are kids reading these forums (believe it or not).
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
Fair point ....... but then again OLIPRO (uber hacker and moderator on this site) is not exactly known for his mild language is he :)

and a few others also.

Still its all good fun arguing with old 'TRIGGER HAPPY EAGLE' that the Athena is a joke a phone in the civillised world!

i have not heard ONE other person say that using the Athena as a phone is a good experience, I do have a theory that might explain it though.

I reckon old Eagle has a head the size of a Water melon and hands

like 2 Bunches of bananas ,

THEREFORE an ATHENA probably seems like a normal phone to him

think the ELEPHANT MAN chatting to his mates :)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
In relation to having Msn chat/spreadsheets open all at once, it's easy enough to press alt and tab and flick between the apps. Quicker in fact, don't you think?

The fairly obvious point here is that I have differing opinions on usability, though what puzzles me is that you write off the EEE for its small flaws but are happy to accept the fact that the Athena has many, aside from its resolution - which is in itself inferior to devices of its genre and of its size.

Would not a Toshiba Portege G900 be a better option for you? having both a higher resolution and an infinitely more pocketable design?

Granted it doesn't have GPS, but the SIRF iii bt device I have works much better than any internal one - even when indoors, in a pocket or bag. Going on the need for voice calls over GPS I would present to you that it is less hassle to have a Bluetooth GPS on your person or in your car when you need it than a Bt headset all the time.

Just one suggestion as this is what I was considering before I went for the N95/N800 option.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] mw22:
I agree

The athena is purely an internet tablet and a very nice "laptop" away from home(with documents to go that is)

I use the handbase and docs to go and opera

Works like a dream

Trying to get Skype to work ????? any forums on this ???

BUT AS A FONE NEXT TO YOUR EAR IT SUCKS

But then thats why I have a treo 680 for those calls
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
What we need is simultaneous visibility, not just the ability to swich to them with Alt+tab. We need to look at the other window while typing on the winword window. Also, we want as big an area as possible for each window. This is productivity. When your client pays as much as $4000 per day to hire you, you don't monkey around with an unproductive toy in delivering the result.

I'm not sure where you're coming from in your second paragraph. Athena's size is quite ideal as a convergent device. Just don't think of it as only a phone.

I have'nt looked at your link to Toshiba Portege G900, but I'm always very interested in possible upgrade. I'd looked into your link and give you my thoughts later.

Okay, just looked at it.

It does not have GPS, which is very important to me. Also, the 3 inch screen will not be acceptable. In a word, it is too small. I need something bigger, closer to the size of Athena's screen, or at least 4.5 inch. I'm not sure if it supports MiniSDHC or just MiniSD. This could also be an issue. My concept of an ideal device is one that does not have the hardware keyboard, as I like to use it in both portrait and landscape mode, and I like to continue with Tengo keyboard. Switching to this phone will be a downgrade rather than upgrade from my viewpoint. Anyway, thanks for your link and I appreciate it.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] newuser888:
Spacecat, you keep saying that Eaglesteve does not live in the real world... people don't like big phone... Athena is a complete crap as a phone...

But your survey shows that Eaglesteve's view is in line with the vast majority of the users and yours is not! Is'nt this funny?:D
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] skoop99:
Hear, hear...

Like you, the Ameo/Athena proved to be too cumbersome for me... A shame, because I LOE the concept... The big screen is brilliant, but the size and battery life make it unuseable. I whinged at T-Mobile about that, and in the end they sent me an MDA Vario III (Kaiser/Tytn II). They didn't even want the Ameo back! Result! the Kaiser does everything the Ameo does, but in a smaller package. Much, much more useable...
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
Like I said, the Kaiser does EVERYTHING the Ameo does aside from the screen size, but on the flip side it's more portable and can be used as a phone. How soon after you got the Ameo did you get the Kaiser replacement? And what did you say? I'm interested to try that!!!!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
Woah Spacecat - you and Eaglesteve are battling it out for longest posts here! You sounded like a GOD TV preacher above haha!

You are right with respect to the forum you've posted the poll on, the problem is that most people have paid 800 dollars or more for their beloved devices - after justifying such an expenditure to themselves and their partners they will doubtless hear nothing in the way of criticism about the device. Fortunately mine only cost me 50 quid on contract so I can see reason a little more than most. As a lover and owner of many gadgets and mobiles I have a great experience of phones, and am therefore nothing less than fair. I will not criticise the Athena, Nokia, Samsung, Sony OR any other phone unfairly and even where I DO i will hear genuine arguments and take them on board. You will remember this from when you posted that thread about getting a Viewty: I said they were crap; you told me to look again; I liked it.

In fairness to Eaglesteve I have nothing against his arguments for having the phone: taking everything he has said into account I can see no other phone than the Athena being right for him. For the vast majority of people the Athena would be impractical and silly but that's because most people don't want a phone for their stocks and shares. Most people don't even use push email. Scaling it up though most people don't use Windows mobile - at least not in the phone market. Windows mobile handsets are very niche in comparison to Nokia, Samsung and Sony Ericsson handsets.

What amazes me is how oblivious people are to GENUINE problems with the phone. Are they saying I had TWO broken phones in a row? If I spoke into the handset (which I used to do often for the sake of convenience) i would CONSTANTLY get complaints about echoey, crackly calls. With a bluetooth handset I could not get caller ID and often the headset would disconnect and answer through the speakerphone. Most annoying.

Another point that seems to come up regularly is that HTC did what they could with respect to software for the Athena. This is stupid in my opinion. Out of the box the Athena was a massive disappointment for me. The VGA screen just had bigger fonts than a QVGA screen, the 600+Mhz processor was useless tied into the fact that the ATI chip isn't supported, and the keyboard seemed unresponsive and was hardly useful - the first thing I thought was: 'what the hell do I do with it when I'm out and about and want to take a call? flap open the leather case and leave it dangling was the best I could think of until I finally opted to remove the thing altogether.

It puzzles me that HTC put so much into this keyboard and the neat little feature where you put it on the screen and the status bar (usually) appears, yet didn't think to develop Vuoflo such that it was useful - automatic orientation change, flicking between music tracks etc. I'm starting to think the company is bonkers after the shambles that is the Shift.