yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
I must admit im really enjoying this thread its one of the best I have ever started!

what is amazing is that a device that has been talked about for MONTHS been reviewed ONline weeks and weeks ago, has been held and looked at by various people in the business that is due out

in the next couple of weeks and NO ONE has a definitive answer of what features it will have.

Technical support and Euro HTC HQ told me

NO VOICE , women on phone at Expansys told me

YES VOICE, Man in shop on Tott CT rd told me they had one in shop and NO VOICE , vodaphone link in this thread says YES VOICE.

our inside man OLIPRO says YES VOICE , most people here seem to think NO VOICE

Its the funniest F**King launch of a Device EVER
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
From our perspective it's interesting; from a marketing perspective it's very naive. Htc would appear not to have a firm grip on who this device is marketed at. To have unconfirmed specifictions at such a late stage is crazy, particularly since inevitably any 'new' features will not have had chance to go through the rigorous testing necessary for such a device. I don't doubt olipros sources, but unless the surprises mentioned are a battery three times the capacity and a price cut of half it's unlikely to change opinion much. Even if htc Do add phone call functionality it doesn't really change the apparant failings of the device. I really hope i'm wrong!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spzero:
Maybe they just want speculation and hype so we all have to look out for its release and just go buy one........................
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Longkesh:
21 days ago, I ordered the Shift from a Norwegian reseller. After reading this thread, I send them an email where I asked them to cancel my order if the Shift doesn't have phone capabilities. Today, they informed me that they have canceled my order!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
I used to own a Toshiba Libretto 100CT about 10 years ago. Notice how strikingly similar it is to SHIFT in terms of size and weight?

DIMENSION:

shift ....... 207 x 129 x 25

Libretto ... 210 x 132 x 35

SCREEN

shift .... 7 inch 800x 480

Libretto. 7.1 inch 800x480

WEIGHT

shift .. 800 g

Libretto.. 950 g
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
let me just say what olipro said already. the shift will have phone functions out of box. period thats it. no more saying no it doesnt. the athena project has sources that say it does. we cant say from who or what they are but we have them. there is no maybe with these sources its just a IT WILL HAVE IT!!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Midget_1990:
seconded :)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
thats great to hear, now with wm6 on board i might buy the bleeding thing :)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] eaglesteve:
Everyone must decide if this is right for him or her. Some would buy anything because we love toys. Some would consider the practicality very carefully.

For me, even if it has full WM6, GPS, camera, and phone, I won't want it. Athena makes sense, because it has long battery life and is managed to just stayed within the limit of size, weight and pocketability. The only thing it does not have is Vista. But why would I want to lug this big boy around for a mere 1 hour of usage per day (assuming that the other "Vista equivalent hour - total 2 hours" is used for WM6 functions such as Mail, Calendar, MP3, Camera, GPS, bluetooth phone, etc)? It makes more sense to have an Athena plus a notebook or subnotebook running Vista separated. In that way, I bring my Vista part around only when I need it.

I've used vey smilar sized and underperformaning machines before so I know what it was like. They are miserably slow, battery short, and unproductive for real work. I used my Toshiba Libretto for just less than 1 month before I gave it to my employee. She gave it up very quickly too, demanding a proper notebook soon after too. We both were travellers and worked on projects all over the place, and its portability was not enough to compensate for the clumsyness of small screen, small keyboard, and slow speed. Finally, I donated it to mission in Camdodia after sitting idle for a few years. It was more expensive than SHIFT.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
u dont even need to carry anything around except a athena. u can setup a connection on ur laptop/desktop/whatever via vnc or rdp and then just use the remote desktop client or vncview on the athena and u have vista when u need it. with the wm6 in the athena and my rom u got so many apps that ud rarely need to use vista.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
i hear what u guys are saying but personally i am not going to be using any cpu taxing progs.

one area the athena falls down in is Video playback which

is very poor IMHO as u cant get films to sync decently and its to flakey. hopefully the shift will have better movie /video playback.

this coupled with the bigger screen would be cool.

I use my Athena mostly at work at my desk, and would use the Shift likewise , so i would be using it 90% of the time within reach of a mains power supply

If the battery life is half decent for the phone/wm6 bit im sorted for the rest of the time when im not near a power supply.

It would be better of course if it could be made to run XP as this has less demands on the CPU and memory.

i love my Athena and if i wasnt to get a SHIFT i wouldnt be that bothered, but i would like to see it in action especially with the HIDDEN functions that the boffins here keep talking about.

Hey PK why not see if you can squeeze XP onto the Athena :) ...................Joke
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] mw22:
Hey spacecat

win xp on athena sounds great but how about linux ???

see my thread on

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=343032

how about that !!!

That would be cool and then the battery will last for the full day plus some !!!!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
hmm not a bad think to try to do on the athena(xp part)... might have to talk to the team about that...
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
linux wouldnt be a bad idea eather...
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] TryOG:
The shift will have a teleport-device integrated, a time-shift panel and when you fold it out it will be a flying car using hydrogen as fuel.

What will it not have?

Oh yeah, you can call with it too... For sure!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
You're so fricking right it's unreal. When the Shift was announced I almost didn't get my Athena. When I DID get the Athena I was disappointed. Then a few ROMs were leaked....then Black appeared and rocked my handset. I dont have ANY interest in buying a Shift now, as my Athena does everything I'd want to do on a shift ANYWAY - I can remote desktop home, I can get push email, watch youtube, stream all my media (perfectly) with tcpmp and orb. Its got satnav, Ive got Fingertouch so I dont need to carry the keyboard about with me. great camera, great to sms on.........I really could go on. Im so grateful to all the developers for their incredible work.

Now who the hell wants to pay twice the price for a bloody Shift?!

just with reference to your previous remarks - is it possible to run another OS on the athena - such as the linux variant on the new Acer eee pc's. their specification isnt much better than the Athena on the face of it. please forgive me if i appear stupid but this is not a subject ive looked into in any depth.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] TryOG:
"Oh my god, I forgot to turn on my pc @ home and now I can't get my files!"

"Oh my god, Vista via remote desktop is SO freaking slow! I AM TIRED OF WAITING!"

"Oh my god, the Shift has such a sexy color!"

"Oh my god, TryOG's so cool!" :D

Those are 4 reasons why I would buy the HTC Shift!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
Im probably wasting my time picking holes in your lamentable argument but here goes:

1: Can a Shift access files from a pc at home that's turned off? Id be interested to know how, short of having a backup of all your data on the Shift's hard drive - but there isnt much space on that. It's not perfect, but I prefer to use Orb and have everything at my disposal to stream or download. That's if you've got the foresight to turn on your pc back home.

2: Remote desktop works fine for me via 3g or WIFI. Certainly not slow connecting to either XP or Vista. In fact theres no difference between the two.

3: The Shift does look rather nice I agree, but I imagine most would prefer the shiny black advantage. It certainly packs more wow factor for its size too.

4: I can't comment on your coolness. I shall take your word for it.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] TryOG:
I shall answer your arguments with more arguments and actually we can go on forever like this, but right now I have some spare time.

1: It has vista on the device itself. Local Vista should have a faster response than Remote Vista.

2: Damn. I can't find an excuse to answer you right here.

3: Okay, the Shift looks kinda 'gay' when you compare it with the black Advantage.

4: Thank you.

Amen...
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
There is little doubt that technically the Shift will outshine the Athena, but I think the crux of the issue here is productivity and practicality versus technology and functionality. It seems that overall the Shift offers little more than the Athena, at least not to those who look to the Shift as a replacement. It would seem that to those who DONT want a replacement, but simply a UMPC will get a lot out of the Athena - phone functionality too it now seems.

The reason I have drawn the conclusion the Shift is no use to me is 1 - it's too big to use as a phone 2 - it's too expensive in relation to the extra features it offers me over the Athena 3 - the battery life is critically short.

These points have been raised repeatedly throughout this thread. Had the confirmed specifications been released sooner then a more thorough and less speculative debate could have been raised.

One thing is for certain: the shift will run Vista better than the Athena can with remote desktop.....but does that make it worth such a large outlay?

It's lucky the Shift is so massive as I figure people are going to feel some rather large holes in their pockets after the novelty of the device wears off!!!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] TryOG:
Yup, you're right about that...

Actually... It's Windows Mobile that has too much limits for me.

Windows Vista (even better... XP) with a calling function is what I need.

That's the only reason why I'd want the Shift.

If there's a different device (a UMPC) with a phone in it, I'd like to compare the specs and buy the best one. But as far as I know, there's no other.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
That kinda exactly sums up my feelings about the shift
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] TryOG:
I think that's the only significant reason why someone would buy the shift without buying it for the "show".
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] :
I have just read thru the 126 page HTC Shift user manual PDF file. No mention of the abilities to make a voice phone call. You can however send an SMS.

Wit suitable hacking therefore I see no technical reason why a phone call could not be achieved, though this would depend on the Phone side of the device having access to the microphone and headphone out of the unit, something that is not of course discussed in the manual.

I tried several times to upload the 3293 KB manual here for all to read but even as a .zip if refuses, so register at the European HTC website, goto the HTC Shift page and download your own.

regards marcus
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
it has been mentioned before that currently the shift has phone abilities. remember the unit is not final though so things will change. our sources say at this time it does.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spzero:
? not final??

Its not final yet? HOW? its supposed to be released in a week. most online retailers shops have delevery date as either 17th or 19th that i have seen. the production devices must be done and on there way to suppliers i would assume.... or maybe the release date is changing ?? any one know for sure ????
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
quite possibly the most confusing launch of a device EVER!
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
sorry wasnt thinking of release date when i said that. the device has been final for a while. the rom can change though still within the next week... prob wont ;)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
I feel like a bit of a turncoat but I've come to a very rapid conclusion that windows mobile is rather crap, and im selling my Athena. After seeing what Nokia - with os2008 - and Apple - with osx - are doing I can't help but feel left behind with microsoft. noble attempts by - embarrassingly for microsoft -third parties to make the os more usable can't hide the fact that windows mobile looks and feels the same as it did the first time around. the novelty has worn off and microsoft needs to overhaul the entire system if it wishes to remain a market leader.

anyway, screw the shift, I've just bought a lovely little ASUS eee and im going to use my old Hermes as a wireless access point for it. check out my thread below.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=1665970
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
ull be back once ap dual 3.0 is out. go check out touch thread for a peak ;)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spzero:
thanks for clearing this up PK good to know they cant mess it up 2 much anymore...

@ space cat i like ur idea with the eee but i ur selling the athena you could use this towards a shift anmd there are some gunna be discounted on contract so it makes sense if you still like the look of them (well assuming drivers can be found for XP as it will suck with vista)

also just went to check outi new teaser but cant se the pics there all screwed up cuz im using my athena damn wish i had proper internet access on this thing that actually worked)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for in the Touch thread.

I wholly admit that if it wasn't for your black ROMs I would've ousted my Athena months ago, but your new ROM is going to have to be something special - I mean like a mobile XP or something - to keep my frustrations from making me move on.

You've done a brilliant job mate but I've just gotten too frustrated with Windows Mobile to stick with it. Even with your great work the Athena still is outperformed by a 200 quid Nokia internet tablet both as a browser and a media player. This irritates me quite a lot.

edit: found the post mentioned, apologies I should've looked harder.

Shame you can't get hold of Flashlite 3! that'd make a pretty big difference to web performance, certainly with respect to flash 9 based sites.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] cmonex:
ugh, you can't be serious :) as for talking to the team about this, don't even ask Olipro this question, he'll freak out :P

no chance for XP on athena, sorry. other than remote desktop.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] cmonex:
1. remote desktop is quite fast... except if you are trying to view pics or video but other than that it is as fast as if you were sitting in front of the pc, unless your upload is crappy or your internet connection on the athena is slow, but wifi and hsdpa are both perfectly fine :)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] cmonex:
oh quite a surprise here!

but just let me ask, what is so great about nokia's crappy mobile OS or the iphone?

i must be missing something.

oh, or maybe..you mention this:

well, i don't think the browser is outperformed by the nokia tablet thing, at least not if using opera 8.6, it is quite fast for me... afaik flash sucks on the nokias too. flash sucks anyway :)

i don't know about media player functionality, so can't help there, sorry. but maybe if you give us more details..?

and now i see you don't mean crappy symbian but that linux OS. seems interesting, if they develop enough apps for it.

oh and what is the asus eee you've bought like?
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] cmonex:
last post, then i'll stop spamming the thread :)

i just want to say, this sounds like a very interesting task for our team. i'm definitely all for it. :)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] TryOG:
Oh... I didn't know that...

But still, video and pics are irritating me, because I'm some kind of a perfectionists.

And it kinda sucks to be that sometimes. :D
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
m no problem with the spamming and yes i been thinking of trying this for a while but didnt have time bc of ap dual 3.0 now that it went alpha we can try this. too bad we'd have microsoft up our a** if we shared any copies of the os we would build to athena but that doesnt mean we can explain how we get it done if we ever get it done.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
I have opera 8.6 as it is a standard inclusion in all of the official Athena ROMS to my knowledge. I don't think it performs better aside from the multi tab option.

However crappy you may deem symbian, the n95s browser works a helluva lot better than either IE mobile or Opera 8.6. I am not biased towards Nokia, this comes from the experience of owning an n95, along with a multitude of other handsets (mainly windows mobile devices), and testing each one out of a period with the same few sites.

The Nokia tablets do indeed run on a Linux variant. It would appear that Linux is the OS to use for modern mobile devices.

Flash might well suck, but it's everywhere so its wise to get the best out of it.

Got the EEE pc today and I literally couldn't be happier with it. I've never bought a pc before where everything works out of the box and it's SO BLOODY SMALL. Well chuffed.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] TryOG:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=1665970
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] cmonex:
erm i didnt mean XP on the athena, that was another reply of mine, see above

i meant wm6 on htc shift ;)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] cmonex:
well, i don't have experience with the n95, you made me curious though. i'll try to find a friend who has one. i'd like to see how the browser is on it... i always want to see every alternative.. but my needs may differ from yours.. for example the iphone browser totally sucked for me.

though, i'm not as browser oriented as to switch to symbian if just the browser is better. :P

EEE pc: neat, maybe you could open a thread on it in offtopic... again, curious!

linux: it will be an option only if the manufacturers improve on the gui and agree on a standard gui and enviroment from the viewpoint of developing apps for it..until then it will have too many problems
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
hehe yea will be interesting to cook a rom for shift ;)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spzero:
And i can think of no one better to do it than you.. Will be time to donate again soon
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
hehe thanx for the nice comment. hmm maybe i should get to work...oh well after dual...
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] schemer:
just talked to an htc rep and was informed that the north american version of shift will have the full phone capabilities...
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spzero:
thought some might be interested in this article bout shift & eee comparison http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/333/C13849/
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
would u people please already stop with this it will or it will not and a htc rep told me this or that. THE PHONE WILL HAVE PHONE CAPABILITIES. i wish i could show u my proof but i cant otherwise i loose a valuable htc source for many htc things. maybe tomm u will finally believe...
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] schemer:
???

i don't know what point are you driving at, but this thread is about whether the shift will have phone call capabilities or not and you don't have the monopoly of talking to htc people alone. we're trying to make something straight here through various resources and talking to authorities like htc people would be one of them. i called these these people not only twice but thrice to be sure they say the same thing.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] leoni1980:
The debate about the Shift's phone capabilities seems to have dried up to me.

Personally I have gone from being very, VERY keen on the Shift to genuinely not giving a flying f**k about it.

I certainly couldn't care less if you can make phone calls on it, or even use it as a hoverboard. I think there are better options out there - maybe not hybrid wm6/vista devices but certainly more convenient, economical and reliable means of combining WM functionality with a full-on operating system. This is possibly why the conversation has drifted from whether the device can be used as a phone to what the alternatives are. In my opinion the Shift is unjustifiably expensive and provides dire battery life based on what we know.

Interesting to hear people's opinions though, and that's the only reason I'm watching this thread: certainly its original context has been argued to death now.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
I started the thread and personally im pretty bored of the whole phone thing myself, lets wait and see :)

I think the real argument in light of recent products

i.e the Eee PC at £220 ,

is now whether or not the the additional facilities of the SHIFT: Touch screen, 30Gb hard disk, built i HSDPA module is actually worth the £600 price difference between the 2 devices.

bearing in mind that the Eee PC has double the length battery life and even if it is phone capable the SHIFT is going to be a bit of a night mare to use as a phone, unless u use a BT headset.

personally i dont thinks it worth more than about £400 certainly not £800. if the battery life is 2hours in vista its pretty much died at birth
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Pawel062:
i dont need to talk to mutiple sources or anything. i have something from 1 source that proves it that it will have a phone no doubts about it. maybe like i said before once dual is out ull see im right...
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
Expansys lists the SHIFT with phone tariffs so yes it probably does have phone abilities.

HOWEVER the release date has been put back to 14th December (from 20th November) so maybe some last minute ROm changing is being done.

Also apparently at some demo the KEYBOARD FELL OFF!

so maybe they are lookng for superglue to put them on properly :)

Cant wait for PK DUAL ROM .. just to change the subject:)
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] schemer:
then we go along the same line that it is a umpc/phone:) i was just trying to shed some light to the main purpose of this thread.

yes and we can talk about that in the other thread...i'm through with this
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Olipro:
Idiot, unless you have the personal phone number of one of the Taiwan engineers, shut up.

Calling the official contact number for information is by all accounts, utterly pointless.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] schemer:
aren't you happy i'm trying to prove your point, *****
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] spacecat:
you need to chill out dude . no need to b a ****
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] Olipro:
Whilst I am an asshole, I do remain neutral on the simple truth that no matter which side of the coin you're on, contacting someone who actually knows is what matters.
[Advantage X7500, MDA Ameo Upgrading] schemer:
:cool: :cool: