yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mackaby007:
Agreed.:)

Add to that list the TyTN I and the HTC X7500 and any other device released in 2007 with the imageon chipset as that was the exact same problem with those devices too and nothing was ever resolved by HTC or the network providers.

As for suing the network providers....IMHO, it's not gonna work. The ball will always fall back to the manufacturer..HTC. They are the ones lying to all of us including the network providers/operators. But bad publicity for them might make them re-think who they want to play ball with in the future, if HTC are legally held responsible for false marketing and mass sales via deception.

Don't companies get slapped on the wrist at least due to anti-monopolization laws? I know Microsoft does and they are way bigger than HTC. Well this is very different and much worse than that in that we get no ongoing support from HTC direct or via the Network providers/operators for goods which are not fit for the purpose that they were advertised as.

Can't be too hard!

How about a new thread entitled something like "HTC taken to Court....deception and ...." I'm not to good with words, but a nice pun like that will automatically appear everywhere on the net as soon as HTC is typed into a search engine and many other web sites will have something to say...adding to the publicity. I think that alone would get HTC's attention, but a lawsuit is much better.

I couldn't care less if us europeans couldn't form part of the lawsuit in the states, but we could certainly support it, No?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] redsrule2500:
class action lawsuit or what?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mackaby007:
We need advice from someone in the know about this, as most of us have little knowledge on the matter.:(
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Blowfish64:
Come on, there has to be some lawyer that frequents these forums and could answer some of these questions. Anyone?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dsyro:
The most important thing is to find a U.S. resident, preferably living in a city where access to specialised lawyers is not a problem. I'm saying U.S. because, as Chainfire said, class actions are mainly (if not only) a US thing (which doesn't mean of course that any single customer couldn't file suit in any other country).

Our volunteer leader who, needless to say, should be a trustworthy senior member of these forums, could then set up a Paypal account and we could pay a sum into that account for an initial consultation with a lawyer specialised in class action suits for high-tech consumer products. If that lawyer thinks we have a shot then we can organise further, find a lead plaintiff, etc.

I don't think Europeans will be able to join an action suit in the U.S., unless that's allowed by US private international law (which I doubt) or some international treaty that I'm not aware of. However, the Europeans (as well as any other) can support this financially.

Another option is to sue in Taiwan where HTC is headquartered but I'm not sure how favourably Taiwan's courts would view such a suit (I'm not sure they would be willing to disfavour one of the country's economic giants for us poor bastards).

So, any volunteers? :)

P.S. Of course we could try this the non-conventional way and look for legal assistance over the internet. Check out for instance:

http://www.classaction.com/index.cfm

http://classactionworld.com/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] RacerII:
Could this mean something? probably not but you never know.

COM object registration info

HTC Video Decode Transform

Missed file:

HTCVDTx.dll

Registry entry:

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT

CLSID

{0BC3DE55-F3B9-453d-81F8-621D717824D5}

\InprocServer32
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ekw:
Someone should try posting at expertlaw.com/forums

It helped me a lot when i was in trouble with the law :([long story]

But they practically give you a free consult :P

So its a good way to get started with lawyers, etc
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dcd1182:
I'm pretty sure MSM7500 users can be included here too - titan and vogue so far.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nick Collision:
Eerily similar situation described in this year old article. This time its Nvidia at fault over Vista drivers. Interesting read.

http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2007/02/02/users-start-class-action-site-to-hammer-nvidia
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
Well at least nVidia provided the drivers, they were just poor. Didn't take them that long to release an acceptable driver.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
I'd be willing to set up htcclassaction.org and put all the relevant information up there. I might just go ahead with this right now.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] edi:
if you need help, i'm with you ;)

I'm student of information technologie, working in my company on developement of web-applications (PHP, MySQL, and so on).

so if you need some one to setup the page with you, just write ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bl4d3:
today i want to sell on ebay my old smartphone the sony ericsson P990i, which is also multifunctional (if you buy some software for it).

so i take photos of this device with my tytn II and when i photograph my P990i's photo camera function i noticed how clear and good the still camera function is in image stabilization and how it works under artificial light. i wish i could show you how good it works!

when i compare this today with the tytn II, i want to keep my P990i with its 2 MP for taking photos.

when you make video with the P990i you notice that it is overchallenged with its 208 MHz processor, but i make photos rather than videos.

but a bit of P990i still camera quality in tytn II and i'm satisfied.

hope that 2008 this will change with an update from HTC.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
HTCClassAction.org is slowly getting there :)

EDIT: Note I will open a paypal account for people to donate money to spend on adwords

EDIT #2: For lawsuit donation pledges and donations for an adwords compaign, please see the topic below

Also see this topic
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] scilor:
I hope it will work, iam very angry about HTC, some games arnt playable :(, my old SDA had better performance!

Thank you for the Link

(HTC KAISER 4TW)

greetz scilor
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bl4d3:
thx for the youtube link on your site. i found some other videos on youtube that shows the tytn II problems as well.

i suggest you to add those videos on your site, cause it is one thing to read about a problem and another to see it in a video:

Smartphones Show 46 (Nokia E90 vs HTC Kaiser/TyTN II/Tilt)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d5DMcQ4Mss

don't miss timecode 8:20. there you can see how bad the still camera and the videocam is. my old se P990i is as good as the nokia e90 i think (told you that yesterday). htc could leave off the build in camera, with such a poor quality. so customers could save 50$ or more without that useless cam.

Comparison: HTC TyTN II vs Toshiba G900

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gykoaUHp9M8

TyTN II (Kaiser) Video Drivers Problem Test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL8uq4FtduY

i like the idea of supporting those who want to make an class action lawsuit, but i've also read in past about the disadvantages of paypal. for that reason i will never open up a paypal account for myself, but i want to give support in form of money. at moment i have no clue on how this could be done without paypal. do you have any? i think the answer on this question is as well interesting for other non-paypal-members.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
I'll look at the vid's, Blade. If you click the paypal button (this is for adwords campaign only currently) on the "What you can do" page, it should accept creditcard as well.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] difflvl:
Does the Toshiba G900 have proper drivers?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doug2873:
nice, I just emailed HTC USA with a link to the lawsuit...I expect this should get the ball rolling A LOT quicker...legal action against what seems to be the world's largest windows mobile manufacturer should make waves not only in the business world but also the technology world.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
Do not ignore the MSM7500 chipset from Qualcomm folks that are suffering too.

I'm talking anyone that's CDMA with HTC(HTC Titan(Sprint Mogul) and HTC Vogue(CDMA Touch).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
MSM7500 and extra information, quotations from Qualcomm PDF's, video's etc are being added to HTCClassAction.org right now :) You are not forgotten!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bl4d3:
done :)

(but it wasn't easy, because some message appear in dutch on paypal :D with a bit imagination and my native language as base, it could be done :cool:)

i will donate more money, if there is an class action lawsuit started
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Chainfire:
Yeah PayPal sucks :)

I've used every setup option, clicked every button, made my customers British, made my spoken language English, etc, it still insists that everything it shows is in Dutch. Silly PayPal.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
And Engadget Mobile just made it all too real:

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...-angry-mobile-owners-rush-castle-htc-with-bu/
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
Ok, so why did this thread just up and get so quiet?

Something about to go down?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Menneisyys:
The G900 is XScale-based and has a (dumbed-down?) GoForce 5500. That is, it's useless to try to port the drivers from there.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Isaygarcia:
humm... what is better, the qualcomm's q3dimension or the GoForce 5500 ??
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Hornet331:
on paper the q3dimension should be more powerfull.

goforce 5500

2.6M triangles per second and an 200M pixels per second

q3 demension

4M triangles per second and 133M pixels per second
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
personally I'd say pixel pushing power would probably (judging by the current batch of 3d games for wm) be more important
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Hornet331:
i agree, but it depends also on the games you play, some are poly heavy others texture/pixel heavy, but both chips have in theroy enough power to deliver 30fps+ @640x480
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Isaygarcia:
perfect.. so it should play games on FPSECE at a great speed?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
As always your luck will probably vary depending on what games you try.

Theoretically it should kick the Playstations ass though. (That's simply theoretic though, the simple fact that we are talking emulations pretty much makes that statement void.)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ashish_dutt:
EU Consumer Redressal

This site might help ppl in EU:

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/redress_cons/index_en.htm

As I understood, consumers can contact any of the local ECC-Net center to get details about possible options.

EU works in tandem with several consumer associations... among them

http://www.beuc.org/Content/Default.asp

Can someone in Brussels give 'em a shout to know more about options?

Cheers
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cgcmd:
ROM Update

Breaking News! A rom update for Chinese TYTN II was posted in HTC Hong Kong website 1 hour ago. Will keep all of you updated about any graphic improvement after flashing the Rom!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ladytoast:
Your joking!

Really?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
can't wait to hear about any possible improvements (video related or not) :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ladytoast:
I see a bluetooth hotfix released 19/12/2007.

http://member.htc.com/member/SoftwareDetali.aspx?pid=13

Do you have a link? I can't read that site..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] HeatWave:
very curious about that ROM then...

*keeps fingers crossed*.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cgcmd:
http://www.asia.htc.com/download/RU..._radio_sign_22.51.88.13_1.27.15.32R2_Ship.exe

This is the link to the file in case any of you are interested!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ladytoast:
Thanks

Does the page make any suggestions what the hot fix addresses?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] NuShrike:
I doubt there will be any graphics fixes, but WOO, new radio rom to extract.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
HK WWE, isn't that an english language ROM? Or is it cantonese?

1.82.721.1

22.51.88.13

1.27.15.32

Pretty big step up from previous ROMs/Radeions right?

Wonder what version of WinCE this is.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] nEuDy:
No lib_GLES.dll or something other 3d drivers-files in the package :mad:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
Tried to flash it and just got a "VENDOR_ID Error".

I have a Swedish TyTN II (3/Stock).

BTW all the files, dialogues and readme etc are in english in the file that was linked a few posts ago.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cgcmd:
Sorry all just back from dinner, I also got the vendor ID error and I suspect it is an english rom, not a chinese one

and No, no release notes in the package nor the webpage

I am not sure if that Rom has got some problem or anything but none of my friends can flash it into their device, be it english or chinese version, original HK or shipped version from UK.

Some of them are trying to unlock and flash now. Will keep all of you update.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] lusta1988:
Icould flash it, but i have a non branded tytn II. The radio is sweet, it's a keeper. Also, maybe its just me, but the screen slowdown, well i kinda get the impression that is less sluggish now when touched. Probably just me. ;) Cheers
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] undac:
After the new ROM:

My reception went to hell after the new radio.

I'm down to one bar (usually I have four).

Other than that the phone seems a little bit more responsive, especially when using the touch screen. (It's not 100 % fine but it's noticably better when scrolling through my contact list for an example.)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ID64:
Any BT headset improvements?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] dizzy33:
Hey guys, you're talking about wich processor is better than the other, but maybe we'll never know !

The real question is : will we have D3D support on the Kaiser ?

And if the answer is YES, then I'll be more than happy, no matter if the Qualcomm is worse than the others 3D processors.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sniperess:
I suppose someone already tried ripping these from LG KS20? Does the HTC Wings suffer from same video issues as it has MSM7200 :cool:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] bl4d3:
some users here said they have problem with viewing videos on their device slowness or something else.

this week i copied a 400 mb movie onto my device. it is a .3gp file with full resolution (320x240), high quality video and sound. it is good to view and without hang. can't understand what others said about the video playback in tytn II.

what file type of video have you watched? maybe the problem depends on the windows mobile file type video decoder.

info: i viewed the video with tcpmp 0.72RC1

for those who haven't read my previous posts here: i've problems with the still camera and video cam
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sniperess:
Try moving the volume slider at the same time ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] omikr0n:
3gp videos are extremely CPU-light. Try some DivX/Xvid videos with decent bitrate.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
Definately, realtime conversion/blitting is what we need to know..:)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] jym04:
... which older devices play with less strugle.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
Which a blind man with only short memory retention already knows!!!

Don't post the obvious, lets 'DEVELOPE" !! :o
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] tyeo098:
We need ripping.

We need the drivers from every device ever made by HTC, with the 7200, within the last 2 years.

We need people, chefs, and testers to do this kind of thing.

We need to get organized. We are going to need someone as like a general of all these things, someone who knows roms and can rip things... Someone like Dutty Throy.

We are going to need video drivers from every MS7200 based device on the market.

Any more proof to send to HTC?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qbaDLzOU_Y

Send them that.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
D3D

This is rediculous but.....

I'm scared to tell this..... :(

But I think I did it, ATI driver is running on my device :eek:

I'm going to upload ROM with the driver for you all to test!

This is not a joke !!!!

Cheers,

Leo :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
The.....hell? YEAH!

I have a Sprint Mogul(MSM7500 chipset, it's the CDMA equal of MSM7200), and today we got EV-DO Rev. A and GPS unlocked. So are you telling me that I'll get ATI Drivers now too?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
A wh... wh.... a whaaaaaa?!?!?!

UPLOAD IT!!!!! OH god I HOPE you're right......!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
Pfff take it easy....

Yes I think so, I replaced the driver with ATI one and it's running on my device.

I'm shaking...

Uploading.....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
If it can be CAB'd up, that'd be great too. I already did 1 risky ROM upgrade today.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] cwest06:
If you dont mind me asking what exactly is it and what does it do?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
Believe me it's not risky ;)

Uploading..... 30 minutes to go...

Cheers,
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ray6:
Are you talking about ati_d3dm.dll?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] neilson:
But would this be able to be installed by anyone with a MSM7200 and 7500 chipset regardless of the phone or Cell Technology that they have?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
Yes :D:D:D:D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Oh **** =))) If you made me excited over nothing - I shall STRIKE YOU DOWN! lol j/k
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
How do you think I feel? :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ray6:
Changing the reg setting \HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\D3DM\Drivers

LocalHook from htc_d3dm.dll, to ati_d3dm.dll doesn't offer me any speed increase. Granted it won't crash your phone so it "works" but it doesn't make anything faster.

Do you see a performance increase?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mikeeey:
where did you magicly obtain the file from or go about getting this?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Like you're about to die. Or become a hero =)))
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Farsquidge:
Excellent!!

You may need to get together with the ROM cooking guys and explain how you got there as one Mogul ROM just wont work for everyone.

But if it works!! I think you may have just earned yourself a nice bounty and lots of beers...:)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
I thought "LocalHook" is software acceleration and "RemoteHook" is hardware acceleration... no?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ray6:
There you go, from LS KS20 rom dump.

Doesn't do anything for me though.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
I didn't change anything in registry, only replaced the dll with the ATI one and renamed.

Camera and playing games work fine.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ray6:
Can you be a little more specific, about the camera and/or game? How about videos?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Fine.. "fine" meaning "same" or "fine" meaning "as it should be with acceleration". Try camera in a dim room, try scrolling inside \windows\ folder
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doug2873:
something sounds fishy about this...but ill try to be optimistic
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
Normally playing games with the stylus will hang the device isn't?

Well.... I play Resco Guardians with the stylus just fine!

Also the camera makes nice pictures in dim room.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Well yeah, but try video.. what's your FPS? And I mean somewhere where its pretty dark.

And try scrolling in windows\ folder
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Radeon123:
Where can I find the htc_d3dm.dll on the phone, can't seem to find it.

Never mind, found it :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ray6:
\windows folder

I tried overwriting the original htc_d3dm.dll with d3dm_ati.dll renamed to htc_d3dm.dll. Didn't do anything for me. No change.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
Where can I find framerate?

And it's pretty dark!

Also scrolling in windows folder works.

And last... if I remove the 'htc_d3dm.dll' and replace it with 'd3dm_ati.dll',

if it shouldn't work then my device won't boot isn't?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Doug2873:
have you tried a soft reset?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
I think people are saying that it will, just with same performance.

With video try to count the FPS while moving camera around quickly. If you can't count - that's already a very good sign.

When you say scrolling works - sure it does, but is it smooth of jerky and you can actually see it redraw? When i mean scroll - I mean scroll fast bakc and forth.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] chadwick626:
there isnt some kind of pocket 3dmark software i dont know about it, is there?

id like to see test results before trying anything with this.. the gps upgrade today is already much more than i expected, im doubting well get proper video drivers too.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] peterfnet:
I remeber some sort of graphics test app i took from this thread a while back that did rotating 3d cube and told you want kind of graphics acceleration it was using
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ray6:
Yes. It doesn't offer an increase in performance. I don't know if the device even ends up using that file.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] peterfnet:
http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1621811&postcount=13

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1621876&postcount=16
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Nick Collision:
Chainfire played with that dll for hours.... I honestly do not think it is helping much at all.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
Well if you think it's such a big difference....

I don't know anymore.

Anyway I upload and let you critisize.

Regards,

Leo
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ray6:
Yup, this has already been tried.

I figured I give overwriting the original a shot rather than just changing the registry setting to look for the new file, but still no difference. I can't even confirm if the device even uses that driver.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Never underestimate accidental simple solutions, my friend :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
Well... did anybody used Misar's GReloc with it? ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] getwilde:
An easy way to test that would be to copy over a simple txt file (or whatever) and rename it to the .dll. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
So? Have you tried it? Keep us posted
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
Well... this is the ROM.

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1821851&postcount=2

Regards,

Leo
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DarkDvr:
Ok people lets try it and post here..

Good luck to us all hehe.... :p
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] peterfnet:
flashing........
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
Thank you!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] peterfnet:
Flashed. Running automatic customization.....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Laurentius26:
Haha.... :D

Tell me tell me, what do you think?

Does it work?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] donatom3:
You guys think it'll be as simple as just copying over the ati_d3d.dll file and renaming it to the htc_d3d.dll file?