yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] hamdir:
Your M7 buttons were plastic, this is metal and the volume is fractionally loose while the power button is rock solid

---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:19 PM ----------

Yes but when we are trying to help like suggesting simple solutions via provided settings everyone is attacking us that it should be perfect out of box, others are calling this almost unicorn a crappy phone, and yet when we are argue against the competition they say you can fix with mods, clear double standards

So if you agree that this thread is not what was intended I think you should ask to close it
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] barondebxl:
This thread turned into what it is now because of some immature people who cannot accept the opinion of others. They love to criticize other devices to death but God forbid someone gives an opinion on this device and it happens to be negative. Just look how some HTC 10 owners got harassed because of giving their objective opinion.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Chord_Hugo87:
Well you can see there...definitely can see the screen on my s7edge

---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 PM ----------

Are you sure your sunglass is polarized?
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] pnnorth:
Of course - tried two different pairs with Oakley polarised optics.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Chord_Hugo87:
hmmm not sure...U might have a different panel than mine, or you might have hawk eyes...I can barely see anything if in portrait mode.

---------- Post added at 09:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 PM ----------

burn in problem on a less than 1 year old phone? I call BS...
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] pnnorth:
I have the Tianma panel. Maybe it's the improved night vision I have as a result of my red/green colour blindness!
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] dottat:
Thread cleaned. Let's stay on topic folks. Respect each others opinion and not let it go beyond that. It's a phone for crying out loud.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Chord_Hugo87:
lol you should ask someone near you to check it out. I dont think I'm the only one in this.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] pnnorth:
Not BS. My N6 started to get burn in within a few months (not an isolated case by any means). Also with my note 3, the status bar was burnt in within less than a year.

Not sure how the latest panels behave, I hear they're a lot better.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] benny3:
I think the N6 is known for burn in, why i'm not sure. I haven't seen any mine yet.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Nitemare3219:
Get off the denial train dude. Look at the TV scene. Every review website out there states OLEDs are the BEST PICTURE QUALITY EVER PRODUCED. Nothing comes close.

-Cartoonish colors? Guess what, that's Samsung playing on what attracts people in the store. The Samsung phones POP and make people want them. Do you have to deal with the oversaturated display? No. Samsung includes BASIC mode for a reason - again, they then become the most color accurate displays in phones, EVER. Your claim of cartoonish colors is garbage.

-Whites will vary based on the color profile you choose. Yes, early OLED phones had trouble with white. Some cheap panels still do. But the fact is that true sRGB white is not a cool white like paper which most people prefer. It is supposed to be warm. If you don't like it, change the display settings.

-Purple colors? OLED TVs have the best viewing angles out there. The only time colors shift slightly is on a white screen - otherwise, OLED wins again.

-Screen burn, yes, it can happen. In normal use with any phone from the past 2 years, I have had zero issues with OLED burn in. And this includes my 55" LG 4K OLED which I am typing on right now.

-Looks like a toy? Super AMOLED panels have the thinnest displays out there. So I really am curious by what you mean by that.

IPS has poor blacks. VA has bad viewing angles. TN sucks all around. Backlighting is never perfect, and you will never get perfect contrast from an LCD panel on a phone. Contrast is king of image quality. LCD panels have bad pixel blur unless you use TN, which again is terrible and would never find its way in a flagship phone. For the average user, a high quality LCD is fine. For someone who wants to look at the best image possible, you know, the thing you do the majority of the time you use your phone, only OLED is going to deliver that for you.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Chord_Hugo87:
I agreed, but the Colors on the HTC 10 is really really awesome, compare side by side with the S7 edge, I preffer the HTC 10. I think with the exception of cant see anything with polarized sunglasses I preffered the HTC 10.

I never ever experience burn-ins on any devices, but I do agree, AMOLED do save battery on dark background.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] barondebxl:
Its using emmc instead of ufs found on the S7 and G5.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] TeroZ:
Which only affect loading speed I suppose, not scrolling a cached list or play store pages.(which are already in the memory)
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] barondebxl:
Its actually more than loading speed:

https://news.samsung.com/global/emmc-to-ufs-how-nand-memory-for-mobile-products-is-evolving
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] hosmsdos:
Games are lagging and slow FPS.. Why is this happening!!

Tried sonic dash 2 and my old nexus is the running the game at 60 FPS, on 10 it's not Really playable for my taste.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] lagittaja:
And it seems like you have no idea what you're talking about.

If it's in memory, then it's in memory. Having UFS over eMMC is not gonna do anything in that situation.

Good example would be PCMark Work benchmark. A real life benchmark. Here's the technical guide which details the workloads. (pdf)

So far I've only seen two HTC 10 results with the subscores included, one from [MENTION=3056043]Haldi4803[/MENTION] and one from [MENTION=1205214]SacredDeviL666[/MENTION].

I used the average of those two runs, and yes I know, a sample size of two is hardly enough. But that's what we have right now until Futuremark has gathered enough results to be confident to show them in their database..

Haldi's 10 was also at ~40C battery temp while SacredDevil's was closer to 30C battery temp so that threw the results up and down for both in different ways.

And for the other devices, they're average results (past 30 days afaik) from Futuremark's database.

No clue how big the sample size is but it's probably more than enough.

I did ask Futuremark though, about the sample size. I'll let you guys know what they answer.

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=66639465&postcount=3

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=66734548&postcount=5

http://www.futuremark.com/hardware/mobile/Samsung+Galaxy+S7+(MSM8996)/review

http://www.futuremark.com/hardware/mobile/Samsung+Galaxy+S7+Edge+(MSM8996)/review

http://www.futuremark.com/hardware/mobile/LG+G5/review

http://www.futuremark.com/hardware/mobile/Xiaomi+Mi+5/review

And if we take a quick deep dive through that technical guide and look at what is being scored and where UFS might have advantage over eMMC:

Web browsing, nothing here. Just page rendering, scrolling, selecting stuff, loading/searching data, re-rendering.

Video playback scores Rt and Rs. Rt is arithmetic average of loading times (start playback of video). Rs is arithmetic average of seek times (seek within video).

10 is on par with the Samsung's despite they have UFS. Mi5 and G5 are ahead. Go figure.

Writing scores R1 and R2. R1 is geometric mean of the loading times (load, uncompress and display zip containg text file and images). R2 is geometric mean of the saving times (save text/images to zip and compress).

Only Mi5 here is considerably faster than the 10. G5 is just slightly faster where as the Samsung's are way behind.

Photo Editing has scores A17 and A18. They're arithmetic average of loading/saving time from/to flash/memory including decompression for all images.

And what do you know, all of them are pretty much on par with each other, Mi5 being the worse of the bunch.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Heisenberg420:
Look at it this way, you get a few benefits with older storage type:

- Cheaper price tag

- Adaptable storage. Not sure if it's actually a compatibility issue with UFS 2 in the s7 and g5 or if they chose to exclude it because it would slow down the user experience should users install apps on the expanded storage area.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] barondebxl:
Double posted
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] barondebxl:
Instead of getting all worked up just research it or read the article.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Tiffany84:
You can actually do it on S7/Edge(pretty sure you can on G5 as well). I'd imagine they did it because they figured it would slow things down.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] TeroZ:
1) Like that sir said, once it's loaded into the ram, storage performance is irrelevant in most cases.

2) Your link is a PRESS RELEASE which is a marketing material, not a research paper. And all their claims are compared to an unspecified EMMC 5.0 storage(not 5.1 which is deployed on the HTC 10) . For example, samsung state that UFS have command queue that EMMC 5.0 doesn't to achieve faster performance. Funny thing is, they are pretty aware that emmc 5.1 have command queue so they added a "***" note.

3)According to Anandtech's test, HTC 10 got an slc write cache to achieve fast writing performance(second to iPhone). Sure, EMMC 5.1 falls short on read and IOPS performance compared to UFS, but in real-life use cases this won't be a significant impact.

4) The topic here is to discuss the UI smoothness issue. The apps we mentioned, like YouTube and Play Store, neither of them requires 1) real-time high-throughput random access to the storage 2) high-throughput read access to the storage. Hence the whole "UFS vs EMMC" thing doesn't make sense.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] gusoldier:
Btw 2 year old phones like nexus 5 and htc m8 are uber smooth so I don't think it's storage issue.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] meraz9000:
camera.. my s7 edge stomps hTC in that department. I hope they get it sorted out soon. Comparing the same photo side by side and I see a huge difference..or maybe my sensor is bad. /shrugs
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] lagittaja:
TeroZ and others, it's a kernel thing. Probably an issue with the way the governor is set up. Lazy clockspeed ramp or whaddoyacallitrampupwhenscreenistouched frequency.

What firmware version are you guys who are having these stuttering issues?

I'm sorry but I think it should be you who should research the subject or read the "article" *ahem* press release.

These guys are discussing about stuttering within apps which data resides within RAM.

The apps are not loading or saving data to/from NAND which means that having UFS over eMMC doesn't make a difference here.

But do humor me. Where in that "article", *ahem* press release, does Samsung tell that having UFS improves the scrolling performance of applications which data resides within RAM?

Perhaps you're talking about this?

This is how Samsung was "justifying" their borked memory management on the S6 & Co. which were kicking the applications off RAM and back onto NAND as soon as you exited them.

That section I highlighted is only talking about multitasking eg. switching between apps or launching applications or doing this where they are loaded from NAND

if they are not already in RAM.

The applications in this discussion, Youtube, Play Store et. al. are not being loaded from NAND, they are already within RAM.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] barondebxl:
I'm afraid that we are not discussing the same thing. I quoted someone who said that he didn't know what could make the HTC 10 performance worse than the competition since they all pretty much use the same SoC

and Ram (S820, 4GB LPDDr 4 ram). I mentioned the Ufs and emmc because it actually does seem to affect performance on the HTC 10. There's been several speed tests where the 10 was lagging behind. So considering they all use the same SoC and ram, and HTC known to be solid in optimization, I think it's fair to presume that it could come down to the ufs vs emmc.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8O66SPjbDdw

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x-voDhSxF4U
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Heisenberg420:
Can someone share the default I/O scheduler?
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] TeroZ:
HTC 10 is slower at loading large contents, this is no doubt.

Yet I can find a recent example which doesn't seem to have that much difference on daily operation : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbYxDKcmZQU

Nonetheless, we don't know for sure if the storage performance is the prime factor for the difference in earlier comparisons. It might be cpu scheduling, cache settings... etc.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] barondebxl:
It could be, who knows. You guys were talking about in app performance and I was talking about overall performance. Its actually you that I quoted first, I just saw that now.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Baldilocks:
I wonder if this could be a firmware issue myself. Seems like the review units were fine. I don't think I saw one report on any stutter or slowdowns and many commented on this being on of the fastest reacting phones out there.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] lagittaja:
Then you should double check what was the topic of the discussion he was taking part in..

Regarding your two videos there.

1) Just a single run. Comes down to UFS vs eMMC. But who cares? Are you one of those people who uses "battery savers" and kills every possible app in the background because reasons? Far from day to day use.

2) And here's a proper test.

Round two

S7 - 23 seconds

G5 - 36 seconds

10 - 25.8 seconds

Practically on par with each other because there's the human factor involved, his hands going off camera and waving them around before continuing his speed test.

In these kind of comparisons the biggest difference is going to show in the first round of tests because the phones have been restarted and none of the apps are in RAM.. When you look at the second run or third run, completely different story.

At least I don't use my phone like that, killing every app possible and shutting down phone every ten minutes so the OS or user has to load/launch every app he uses on a daily basis from NAND to RAM.

In the video you linked, look at the end where he goes back to the apps he launched. That's your day to day use. And they're practically on par with each other.

But regarding the stuttery issues you and others been having. What's the battery temperature when this is happening?

Is there any difference if you'd let the phone sit so the battery is at room temp and then try and repeat the stuttery symptoms.

[MENTION=1144067]hamdir[/MENTION] has seen that the kernel has a 37C (battery temp I presume) trip point where it drops down the clocks. Using power saver helps a little bit to delay that as it drops the max freq down to 1.3Ghz, which is quite honestly more than enough.

And again a question to those who are having these stuttering issues in app, what is the firmware version of your phone? Are you on the latest 1.30.xxx.x?

The actual changelog, per HTC, contained "bug fixes". No clue what they fixed but it's officially listed as "System stability enhancement". So if you're not on 1.30 yet, I'd look forward to that as it might contain some fixes to the kernel that might attribute to this issue.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] barondebxl:
Don't worry about what I should check, I was discussing with him.

Not everyone uses their phones the way you do. There's a reason why the 10 is consistently slower than the other devices. Question is why? Maybe you don't care but I do considering they have all pretty much the same specs.

We all use our phones differently. I don't see who you are to day how one uses their device.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] gusoldier:
I used 1.21, 1.30 and leedroid rom. All same experience.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Chord_Hugo87:
speaker sucks? damn really? how so? its the only reason why I am buying this phone...god knows HTC cant make camera worth a damn.

lol its funny to see how people so excited to get the phone, and now all the annoying **** comes up and just pure hatred comes out...Waiting for HTC emplyoees to get in here and spread more lies.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Haldi4803:
Cfq
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] hosmsdos:
Speakers are not loud at all, and people are saying the quality is good, it's not that good. My iPhone speaker is louder and better quality. And for the new audio DAC, I like the audio customization but the HiRez headphones are really terrible at high volumes, thinking of buying new ear buds, but then companies are starting to remove Audio jack, don't wanna buy something and turns obselte in a year.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] gusoldier:
Also what I don't understand why htc 10 gives only 52 fps when running this opengl test app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mortalpowers.android.openglfpstest

My m8 runs it at 59 fps and my Galaxy tab runs it at 60 fps. Whut.

Btw, except this little smoothness issue and the bad video camera, I think htc 10 is a great device. I also love the speakers.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] DUTCH Van Atlanta:
Two Problems - Related?

I am unable to use the HTC Transfer Tool to move files from my old HTC One to the 10. Also, the HTC Sync Manager software on my desktop does not recognize the 10.

Definitely a couple of pains in the neck, or in a somewhat lower place.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] goodtimes50:
Does anyone else think phone calls sound really... odd? Regular speaker, not speakerphone. The callers voice has a very unnatural tinny sound and it's pretty distracting.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] markwebb:
Well I have worked this phone hard over the last 3 days and though likeable, the Edge provides a better experience for me. I have already initiated the return process with HTC. ;(
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] clerkp:
Would you be able to expand on your thought process? My 10 hasn't arrived and my s7e is pretty sweet. Would love to know your thoughts.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] sercos72:
Which video samples you don't like it, indoor or outdoor?
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] gusoldier:
For 4k and fhd both are not really good indoor. 4k outdoor is also not good, there is some weird color distortion going on, I don't know what that is. For example the sky isn't clear blue but pixelated.

Outdoor fhd is good. But sadly only 30 fps.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] markwebb:
Still a very nice phone. Originally I thought the 5.2 inch screen would be small but it isn't. Almost just right but I do prefer a bit larger screen. Battery life is improving though it can't match the Edge, but I am impressed it holds its own in Sleep mode.

LCD display is good but Edge Amoled bests it as there is some shifting in certain angles on HTC and screen is not as bright.

Build quality is excellent though a bit chunky but I still feel Edge has it beat even though a bit more fragile: when I hold the Edge phone I feel "special", like many feel with an Iphone. I will admit the HTC is easier to hold, but with a clear case, it just almost looks like the other black slabs despite the highly chamfered edges. The Edge has a distinct look.

Performance wise, I am experiencing lag and stutter at times. Just isn't as fast as the Edge IMHO. HTC claimed it would be fast and seamless unlike other Android phones and reviews said it was but now real world usage is saying otherwise to me and others. Disappointment there. A software fix maybe?

A camera update was released the day after receipt and though it is now almost as fast as Edge, Edge still trumps it in pic quality and in low light but still very capable and nice since HTC lagged in that area for years.

I DO like the fingerprint sensor and feel it may be faster than Edge: it is like the Nexus 6P where one just contacts the sensor w/o clicking. I still say it should be on back of phone like 6P; so much easier to use index finger when picking up and holding.

Speaker quality (one speaker is a woofer and one is the tweeter as opposed to true 2 channel stereo) is better than Edge but is not as important to me. I think HTC knocked it down a notch since the M7, etc.

I have the unlocked version of the HTC and though it has the VZW bands, it won't work on VZW so either HTC did not provide the IMEI numbers to VZW or something else is going on. There is an existing thread on that. Maybe something will change there. Not a deal breaker.

Furthermore, just the plain S7 is almost same price as regularly priced HTC. Economically, I feel one gets more bang for the buck with Edge or plain S7 as they both have wireless charging and waterproofing and streamlined touch wiz with just enough tweaks and features providing a better overall experience. I actually don't miss root on the Edge!

I would still highly recommend this phone along with S7 and Nexus 6P if one were looking for an Android phone out of the current crop of Android phones. But, I also feel HTC should have been priced slightly lower though but that pre-order $100 discount helped.

I just am not getting that wow factor or superior performance with the HTC. HTC may have a marketing problem.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] sercos72:
Did you compare with the youtube reviews, they seems pretty good.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] JHadley:
My Nexus 5x is not smooth. I'm hoping this is significantly better! I have a feeling it has more to do with the apps.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] gusoldier:
Yep, check this for example, look at the sky. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFYIJsWj9Sk
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] exocetdj:
So, obviously no device is going going to be perfect:

HTC Ten: best all rounder imho from what I have read. Need to actually have mine before I can comment negatively

SGS7: GOOD camera but feels like a bar of soap and well it's a bloody Samsung (I have owned one BTW for like a week)

Lg5: qc issues and lousy software I have also read from several sources plus seems flimsy.

Who is actually a ten owner here?

Lol
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] sercos72:
Do you have latest software update (1.30), i saw similar autofocus problem in one daylight review but it was before the update.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] markwebb:
Yes you need to own one and not rely on reviews.

I am an owner so I can offer insights per my posting above. ;) I disagree it is best all rounder though quite good. To each their own, right? [emoji106]
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] gusoldier:
Yep already 1.30. Btw, I saw that 4k recording of LG G5 has similar problem. S7 4k recording looks good.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] v1rk:
Dont worry he liked samsung but his heart always will be with htc :p:p:p:p:p:p