yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] One Twelve:
Let's look at the two shots in question

HTC 10 實拍 by Engadget 中文版, on Flickr

Samsung S7 對比照片 by Engadget 中文版, on Flickr

These are not auto shots presumably because auto got it wrong on both. High contrast shots such as these are difficult to get right with auto on any camera.

S7: Spot metering, exp comp -1.3

10 : Centre weighted and that is the only metering allowed on HTC, exp comp - 2.17

Manual tweaking. Reason you see more details in the S7 is due to spot metering. Spot on the light leave everything alone, drop comp to expose the curtains. Thing with spot is its difficult to use, easy to get wrong but it can get better shots with practice. Have noticed quite a few sammy shots where spot got inadvertently triggered. Result will be sub optimal unless followed with a corresponding exp comp.

The extra comp on the 10 equalises iso. Slightly colder compared with the other.

HTC 10 實拍 by Engadget 中文版, on FlickrSamsung S7 對比照片 by Engadget 中文版, on Flickr

Guess you could drop the comp a little on the 10.

Now wwhat happened here

HTC 10 實拍 by Engadget 中文版, on Flickr

Samsung S7 對比照片 by Engadget 中文版, on Flickr

The 10 is on auto, the S7 is on spot metering with -0.8 exp comp added :) this is why exifs matter as we don't know what is being done in camera.

The ISO differences are huge here, 320 with -0.8 added ia around 180. The 10 is at 1600. Have never understood how HTC does ISO it seems linear up to a point then it starts jumping past that point. This did not happen with the earlier example.

Take a look at these

day-colors-s7 by Gwanatu, on Flickr

day-colors-g5 by Gwanatu, on Flickr

day-colors-10 by Gwanatu, on Flickr

day-colors-6p by Gwanatu, on Flickr

With the exception of the last, all of those cameras have overexposed the flowers by over half a stop. This is typical of f1.8 lenses and wider. Those flowers are red not magenta. The 6p does a better job (still not ideal) only because it took it with HDR+

If you're outdoors in bright light and wonder why contrast looks bad its due to glare.

Either knock comp down a stop or more and/or try and use your hand to shield the lens from the sun.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] hamdir:
most of the samples from the press are 1.20 the early ones

HTC later pushed 1.21 and 1.22 which some reviewers accounted for and some didn't

the new 1.24 update has camera fixes listed under major changes, i was sent some samples and more will be sent later

I've suspected Auto HDR as the reason behind the discrepancies in reviews, like the part ARS technia calls "greys" so i've asked to be sent samples with Auto HDR disabled plus held steady, here are the first set and i will upload more later

as you can see if held steady the side blurs are gone

again: auto HDR was turned off

HTC 10 camera samples - 1.24.xxx.x
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] NICG:
Mmmm...they look great to me. Personally I would sacrifice a little bit of the cemera detail than be stuck on a locked bootloader hoping for an exploit thay may never come. Not to mention HTC is great with releasing source code. IMO there is no question of witch phone to buy.

Mod edit: added hide tags.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] GOLDEN ZERO:
I think the reason you see more details in the S7 is due to over sharpening .
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] vprasad1:
Regarding file name format, is HTC still using generic img names or are they using date_time format file names?
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] domineus:
So in terms of camera, what do you see as the big issue? Is it HDR or what on version 1.24 software?
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Diz:
auto focus looks pretty fast

[YOUTUBE]watch?v=r9nifZIoR20[/YOUTUBE]
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] :
I'm damn impressed. The new firmware seems to fix the faint color reproduction.

I don't prefer S7 over-sharpening and high contrast. Nexus benefits from hdr+ and lacks ois. Both factors increase shutter speed.

In my opinion the htc 10 and huawei p9 are the best camera "performers" (for now).

Here are some photos taken (probably graded) by Christopher Robinson.

twitter.com/HTCUSA/status/721714856928419840
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] MsEvyLynch:
Which phone S7 or 10 has true to life colors? S7 is more vibrant and darker colors. If you look at the object vs looking at the picture, which phone produces real life colors? Id like to know?
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] madcowintucson:
So from reading the posts it sounds as if htc is still tweaking it's software before final release?

The reviews online vary wildly from hour to hour depending on who is doing what. I read everything from this is a great camera to how bad it is. Also I read old some nexus 6p camera reviews talking about how bad it's camera was and how inaccurate it was and now I read it is beating out the g5 and s7 and the 10. No tests up against the v10 which I have and it's camera is pretty good as I am no profession. I agree I'll trade a lesser quality camera for unlocked boot loader any day.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] One Twelve:
Reviews with better photos will come along, people will post awesome images and the early confusion will be forgotten as usual.

The verge is crap though. Since they get devices before others they tend to be watched more. But they even cocked up the iphone 6+ camera comparison. What is the excuse, early firmware too, hah, they give a damn, as long as their scoop generates traffic, yeah....
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] NIK516:
thats pointless as most people wont be setting up each shot in pro mode exporting in raw than editing the shots. A camera phone needs to do well in auto these days ... dont think htc has got it just right yet.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] redline2097:
Photos of HTC 10 looks spectacular but S7 is killing the htc on video department.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] One Twelve:
People are saying front facing camera with ois is killing everybody else in the making vlogs dept.:D
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] hamdir:
6P uses HDR+ which is not a real-time HW solution, you hit the shutter and you waint for the for software processing to apply
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] hamdir:
here is how RAW enhance works now

HTC Sense 8.0 vs Sense 7.0: New features tweaks and changes reviewed
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] One Twelve:
HTC photo editor might not be in the firmware anymore but i thought these apps were shifted to the play store. Which means they can be used by other devices :D

Photos by matthew miller.

Comparison photos from an HTC 10, Galaxy S7 Edge, Apple iPhone 6s Plus, LG G5, and LG V10.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskyezS4Y

HTC 10 (2) by Matthew Miller, on Flickr

HTC 10 (4) by Matthew Miller, on Flickr

HTC 10 (12) by Matthew Miller, on Flickr

That last one is a 2MB crop.

HTC 10 (30) by Matthew Miller, on Flickr

HTC 10 (28) by Matthew Miller, on Flickr

Those last two could do with some contrast.

FWICT all auto no tweaks.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] devsk:
Phonearena has a comparison tool for different phones. I took the comparison between S7 and the 10. Here is the screenshot of the result attached. XDA saved the PNG as jpeg, so it might have eaten some quality but the broccoli in S7 looks like ghosted badly (may be side effect of over-sharpening) whereas we see a lot of detail on the 10.

Edit: uploaded png.zip.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] djbutter:
http://www.droid-life.com/2016/04/18/a-bunch-of-photos-taken-with-the-htc-10/

These look great! No low-light samples though.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] One Twelve:
Yep looks nice and they even provide full resolution samples for download :)

There are times i wish it would be sharper, but artifacts are low. The grain at 3200 isn't so bad. In 2016.

ISO is behaving well, no tweaks required here for indoors shots.

Do notice the first 10% and last 10% is less sharp for landscapes outdoors so if you crop those out your shot will be end to end sharp or if its a portrait you don't need to bother.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] aer0zer0:
That's is good to know, thank you [MENTION=2390514]vegetaleb[/MENTION]
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] lagittaja:
A bit surprised no one hasn't posted any cat pics yet. :D At least I haven't seen any.

It's been lousy weather here so haven't really taken much outdoor shots.

Pro mode and just ISO capped iirc. 400, 800 and 800 respectively.

Developed from RAW's, processed in Photoshop.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] hamdir:
we already explainedthis repeatedly, its not like your A9 or M9, focus has nothing to do with exposure so your tip is poinltess, to counter over brightening the screen; that is if it happens on auto because usually it doesn't; you need to focus wherever you want and bring down the exposure by sliding down anywhere on the screen
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] starbase64:
[MENTION=3437396]lagittaja[/MENTION]

2016-05-13_07-09-28 by Maik Reifschneider, auf Flickr
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] King p1n:
Probably not sadly:rolleyes:
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] aer0zer0:
I hiked tinker falls with wife after coming back from the Adirondacks. I really like quality of the photos. The selfie camera seems good as well.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] bturkel:
I do not know about any Verizon users but my camera has focus issues - in Video and Photo - hope the update fixes it because right now my Turbo 2 was better than this device. At least it worked
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] West Coast Charlie:
Something is VERY WRONG with how some reviewers are comparing the cameras, it's like as if they can't get a decent shot with the 10 even if their life depended on it.......

http://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea.../galaxy-s7-vs-htc-10-camera-photos-comparison
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] elshagon:
Does anyone know if you can backup the raw .dng files from the HTC 10 to Google Photos/Drive? I have my Google Photos backup set to "original" and don't see any raw files show up in my Google Photos web interface or in Google Drive. Curious whether there's some time of setting I need to enable to have it store the .dng in the cloud.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] sercos72:
I think his test device has some hardware problem, dirty lens or he doesn't have latest software update.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] vicvega:
Looks like there's dirt or petroleum jelly on the htc 10 lens shot. I agree with you. Even after the update I get crystal clear shots.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] onedges:
I've noticed some strange things in the HTC Camera app now that I'm paying attention to it. These are 100% reproducible for me.

Images taken in the Pro Mode has thumbnails which don't actually represent the full image when viewed in Windows Explorer.. the thumbnail always shows a slightly cropped version. Other viewers may show it correctly though. Was going to post an example, but I don't have 10 posts yet.

The on screen preview in Pro Mode has an image which looks less sharp and more "natural" looking. Normal mode they like sharpen the preview of the image you're going to get. It's so noticeable. The actual images look the same though after viewing the saved images. Weird.

JPEGs in the pro mode are about 50%+ smaller in file size compared to the ones from Photo mode. They are always bigger for me for some reason. 1.2 vs 3.0mb... 1.4mb vs 3.2mb... 738kb vs 2.4mb. Is it because the thumbnail is embedded wrong? What is going on? :eek: It doesn't seem like more compression because images look the same when viewed on my computer, the larger one ever so slightly sharper.

Just thought I'd throw these things out there. I really do think a new camera app is in order though for this phone.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] gavinfabl:
I've noticed that as well with the Pro mode images and auto images.

I'm finding it a little PITA using google photos app for everything. I want to have photos saved on my micro sd card in folders as well as on google photos.

What does everyone use ? I tried looking for HTC Gallery app but it's not showing yet and if you side load it , there are read write issues to the micro sd card.

Also why does the HTC File Manager not support USB OTG? There are some weird decision going on. Nearly makes having a micro sd card pointless.

---------- Post added at 06:56 ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 ----------

The HTC 10 isn't perfect but I have just finished doing a camera comparison between my iPhone 6S, LG G5, HTC 10 and S7. These were night shots. The post goes live on Thursday. Try and guess the winner!
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] sercos72:
In pro mode could be HTC 10, in auto S7 or G5.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] vancecwtan:
Some photos I've taken over the weekend. Hope you guys find it enjoyable.

Shot with my 10 on 1.21 firmware which is pre camera update.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] DrearierJester1:
Planning to switch to Htc 10 but was holding off because of the camera. I ove everything about htc except for the software processing of the camera. Is it all good after the new 1.53 update?

Basically my main concern is the over exposing of bright lights and the sharpness of the images are just not so sharp provided they are using larger 1.55 microns.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] sercos72:
Maybe this second opninion helps you, there is real life samples also.

http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-1...feature&utm_campaign=navigation&utm_source=ac
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] hamdir:
1.55um is not about sharpness its about color noise, the 1.30/1.53 update brought some sharpess but HTC is acting with restraint when it comes to digital sharpness which is to be commended

http://www.eprice.com.tw/mobile/talk/4542/4984290/1/rv/htc-10-64gb-review/

also these digital zoom pikes show the benefit of this clean processing:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=aUdCRnJWSi05bWpVS1QxWW1XNEtRdTNUcWZiRkVB

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=aUdCRnJWSi05bWpVS1QxWW1XNEtRdTNUcWZiRkVB

what they need to do now is bring high ISO under control and they have the cleanest camera
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] lagittaja:
hamdir already said it but the pixel size is not about sharpness..

12MP at 1.4 micron is not "sharper" than 12mp at 1.55 micron.

It's about light gathering ability. How much of the actual light coming towards the camera sensor is going to be collected.

1.55 micron pixels are a little under 11% larger than 1.4 micron pixels.

If all other things are equal, to gather the same amount of light the 1.4 micron sensor either needs to

slower shutter speed so it gathers the light a little bit longer

ramp up the ISO to increase the sensitivity (luma and/or chroma noise increases)
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Nitemare3219:
But what about the S7 having f/1.7 vs the 10's f/1.8? Does that make up for, or even do better than, the slight pixel size difference?
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Haldi4803:
Wasn't there a review (on Anandtech?) From a industry Insider that said 1.4m is the maximum achievable by the actual Smartphone lense and any more on the Sensor is useless?

(For sharpness, guess that doesn't count on noise....)
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] lagittaja:
I don't understand photography quite that well but if I would make a guess > I'd say it's quite insignificant.

If you go from f/1.8 to f/1.7, the difference is +0.17 EV, if all other things are equal (shutter speed, ISO).

How big of a deal is that? I have no clue. Maybe the experts here can chime in on that.

Probably not a big deal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_value#Tabulated_exposure_values

Yeah, there's a limit to how small you can go. There are sensors with 1.1 micron pixels (maybe even smaller, idk) but the amount of light they can gather is an issue and with that comes the problem of noise, weak signal to noise ratio.. Cross talk (leakage from pixel A to nearby pixels, just like stereo crosstalk and headphones)

Here's Micron's slide back from 2011 regarding pixel size.

Samsung has been talking about their ISOCELL stuff

Of course if you are size constrained, like I don't know a satellite or something, it makes sense to use smaller and smaller pixels so the resolution is higher.

Or if you're a planetary photographer and you're also size constrained and you're trying to picture something a gazillion miles away, going from 3.75 micron pixels to 2.2 micron pixels can have an effect like this when you're trying to take pictures of Jupiter

This is one of the best illustrations I've seen that explains the pixel size if someone is still having a hard time understanding.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] West Coast Charlie:
http://www.androidguys.com/2016/05/17/flagship-camera-shootout-galaxy-s7-vs-lg-g5-vs-htc-10/

Seems like a fair comparison, cameras are neck to neck.....
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] sallam5010:
Deleted
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] CrashTestDroid:
I just found out the front-facing camera is a joke. Why did HTC bother with OIS on the front cam if it's incapable of taking in any details?
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] gavinfabl:
Tomorrow I will have my iPhone 6S vs HTC 10 vs Samsung S7 vs LG G5 night shots comparison live on my blog. Then you will be able to see the difference between pixels and f stops and the use of auto vs pro modes.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] starbase64:
2016_05_18-09-19_IMAG0859.jpg by Maik Reifschneider, auf Flickr

2016_05_18-09-19_IMAG0858.jpg by Maik Reifschneider, auf Flickr
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Haldi4803:
Auto 1/8 iso 4000

Pro 1s iso 504
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] West Coast Charlie:
Pro mode with ISO 504 certainly looks better without all the graininess, but with's up with the muddy effect on the center bottom of the photo?
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Supreme_One:
I have serious problems with focussing
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] ImagioX1:
Just found out the 10 has a manual focus mode. Thats a feature I've been missing on all my previous phones and now they finally added it. :good:HTC
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] gavinfabl:
This was great fun putting together. Apple iPhone 6S vs HTC 10 vs LG G5 vs Samsung Galaxy S7 - camera night shots comparison using Auto and Pro modes. Who is YOUR winner?

https://gavinsgadgets.com/2016/05/1...amsung-galaxy-s7-vs-lg-g5-camera-night-shots/
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] Haldi4803:
Focus was totally off ^^

Used the cover as stand so Laser Focus failed and I used manual.

Yeah. Seen that myself.

Anyone can confirm this?

If you use a Monitor on 30hz + this Test:

http://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

Shouldn't we see all black Blocks in white if it's really 2 seconds, or only half of the Blocks if it's 1 second?

Or would the screen be way to bright for a 1 sec Picture ? ^^
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] ro_explorer:
If you twist my hand like that, I have no choice :)

View attachment 3755382

-= Sent from a parallel universe through a wormhole =-
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] starbase64:
Here is my low light video test with 1.30.401.1

[youtube]KmL_sD7Novg[/youtube]
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] lagittaja:
It depends on the monitor, how dark you can get it.

I'll try that for the giggles, though with my TV, I can get it down to the 24Hz or 30Hz etc range but most monitors can't do that.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] aknotts415:
Saw this a few days ago. Looks pretty good in my opinion. Did you shoot them both at the same time?

---------- Post added at 07:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 AM ----------

One tiny thing that drives me crazy with the camera app is in auto the exposure slider. Once you tap to focus, if you tap to focus again the exposure resets. lol Drives me mad so I just use Pro mode :) Iso capped at 400, exposure at -.5 and I'm ready to roll :D
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] starbase64:
the video from few days ago is taken on evening 9pm and last is from morning 3am.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] aknotts415:
Oh gotcha! sorry didnt realize lol
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] vegetaleb:
Hello Gavin!

Long time no see!

I hope this time you are enjoying the HTC 10 camera
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] cbrown245:
View attachment 3755633

I personally love this camera , I am always out taking pics of my kids and as I was going through them this day I caught something pretty cool . Check out the lady running in the background, no motion blur , or on the kid tripping and falling as well. Even on a Samsung there is motion blur. This is by far the best camera for HTC hands down .
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] aknotts415:
Posting some pics. Before ones are without the "pop" processing in google photos and after are with the pop effect

View attachment 3755662

View attachment 3755663

View attachment 3755664

View attachment 3755665
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] aknotts415:
Heres some more I snapped on way home.

View attachment 3755667

View attachment 3755668

View attachment 3755669

View attachment 3755670
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] aknotts415:
One more in darkness only lit by a candle in pro mode.

View attachment 3755671
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] xsardax:
These are great, but, what is "pop" effect?? :) Thnx

Sent from my HTC 10
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] aknotts415:
When you are viewing a photo in Google Photos AP theres a pencil icon, hit that and use can either RAW enhance or edit the photo. The Pop slider is under edit I think. It just sharpens or saturates the photos like the way the processing is on the Galaxy S7 phones.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] xsardax:
Thank you [MENTION=5851240]aknotts415[/MENTION]

Sent from my HTC 10
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] aknotts415:
They really never tell you lol I saw a post talking about Raw Enhance and I had no idea what or where it was. But it shows up when your viewing a raw photo and you hit that pencil its there.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] habs101:
good comparison ! enjoyed that post of yours

the winner is hard, each one excel at something and each have their downfall.

best is to have all three lol without the iphone that is.

I did like the htc 10 and lg5 pictures, and some of the s7 pics.. though i like a more natural photo so you know it is night time, and some of the s7 pics if you didn't tell us the time they looked like they were taking with a lot of sun.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] gavinfabl:
Hello :)

I really really like the HTC 10. The camera takes some lovely shots too!
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] aknotts415:
Great comparison!!!:p
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] qualitymove13:
Pro Mode, Google Raw enhanced.
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] elena11:
I have noticed, the moment I have a bit of smudge from my fingers on the lens, I get a lot of glare. When I wipe it the pictures are excellent. Is there a way to keep the fingers oil away from the lens glass?
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] lagittaja:
You could try some oleophobic coating. You know, a liquid which you apply on to the lens.

Might be a bit tricky to apply to so small area but not impossible.

Though I have no clue what it would do to the optical properties of the lens.

Might do nothing or it might just be fine. Try it and see :D

And no, it's not permanent thing, it just forms a sort of a film on top of where ever you apply it.

It can be cleaned off.

How long will it last? Month, three months, half a year? Depends on how many coats you apply, how thick they are and so forth.

Search words: diy oleophobic coating, oleophobic spray, anti fingerprint spray etcetera. And so forth. Use your imagination.

You'll probably run into to the Fusso product quite quickly, ridiculously expensive because specialized product "for phones"! :D

3 milliliters of that thing for 10-20€ it seems, I'd almost call it snake oil :D
[HTC 10 Guides, News, & Discussion] elena11:
Tnx a lot! It might create a bigger problem. I will keep on wiping the lense glass before taking a picture.