yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Off-topic] GiGi77:
Not to get off topic on the ROM but sadly, that's where the "old VCM" would have been so helpful. It used to be that a Moderator would come in there and post information to the senior members as what was happening and what was coming down the pipe to help put out the fires (so to speak) It seems to me that after G8keeper left, the VCM boards became just a place to chat. I was absent for a short time and it wasn't until I came back and read where, I believe, Jameson!, asked for the Mods to come out and say what was going on when tons of customers were asking why their service diminished when the name change took place! He was begging them to come out and SOMEONE give an official word. Prior to seeing this post I was being told by CS that "nothing" happened. :eek: When something DID happen to some customer's service, turns out that they finally linked it to the alpha tag change! :confused:

I don't know but it seems like someone somewhere HIGHER up would be monitoring the forum or are the current Mods the sacrificial goats (ie mouth pieces)?! No offense to any mods anywhere! ;) I hope that when they retooled the VCM that got back to making it a middle ground for senior members to be kept informed but from the way the old gal went down I doubt that's gonna happen. :(
[Off-topic] wilcre:
Alpha Tag Change

Yes it id appear that it was the alpha tag change that made the issue, however it was physically tied to a person implementing the wrong PLMN that was sent out at the same time as the alpha tag change, thus instructing the phones to search out land line carriers for service and non-roaming partner towers as well, thus the no service on the phones or in some situations limited service.

Edited To Add:. And yes even i was restricted from placing this info anywhere on the forums and or giving it over the phone unless specifically questioned about the degraded service.
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
I don't think you know just how funny that is. :D :p

For the release of a ROM, sure. But not how the forums are run.

That I will agree with ya on. But again, a person with good skills as a moderator could have handled it much better, and minimized the chaos. Granted it was a difficult situation for them to handle. It was a job for a diplomat, not a dictator. And something else I will agree with ya on, the late release of the rom is such a trivial thing in comparison to other things. My being banned from the at&t forums is also a trivial thing compared to the rest of what goes on in my life. I think I will continue to live life just fine without that forum. I only make it a big deal because….well… it’s just so easy. If it took much effort I don’t think I would bother.
[Off-topic] GiGi77:
Those of us that were in the VCM know exactly what you're referring to. :eek:

It seemed to be the very straw that broke the forum's back. :(
[Off-topic] newbie2:
And yet -- this thread in the General Care forums was allowed to stay up. If you read the whole thread, there's even another reference to "Spanish Inquisition" by another poster.

Surely someone from the VCM filed abuse reports on it, knowing what a fiasco that phrase created in there. And to this day, it hasn't been locked, archived, or edited. That's more proof to me that those of us that were banned from the VCM were singled out for the vendetta in the open forums.
[Off-topic] FoneJunkie:
GiGi, you certainly said a mouthful there. It wasn't just Ralph (G8keeper)... almost all of the mods prior to the current set did so, going as far back as MarkF, who was the main mod when I found the forum. Subsequent mods like AT, sunshine and others also used the VCM room to keep the 'valued community members' informed.

Actually, Ralph had stated several times to me (and probably others) about the power struggle with WF and Sentry. Ralph was interested in utilizing the VCM to assist with forum moderation and WF and Sentry did not. When Ralph left the company, there was no one with the authority or the huevos to challenge them for control and you see the results.

As an aside, I was banned at one point by MarkF shortly after finding the forums. The charge: flaming. MarkF sent me a PM, told me why what I did warranted banning, and pronounced sentence - a 2 day ban. I never forgot the way he handled that, and I fully expected all of the mods to do the same. Obviously, that was not the case, and now they just ban without any explanation or valid reason.
[Off-topic] GiGi77:
See I wasn't on board when MarkF was there. G8keeper, OE, Wirelessforeman (at&t mods) and Pama28 & then Swife (Lithium mods) were there (July '05). Mod.Moose, Tashina (lithium mods) and Caretaker, Sentry (at&t mods) are the newest (the last 2 may have been employed with at&t but just not out front like the other Mods). Of course, Mod. Moose has been around for awhile now. I think it's only fair if a Mod. tells you what you did wrong and then tells you how long you're banished for. Or to me that's the right and gentleman/womanly thing to do. :D

I look at it this way, if you tell a child to not do something and they do it anyway, then they need to know what it was that they did wrong and how long is the punishment for! I know that some will read this and say that the banned ones are just being childish, but if the shoe was on their foot, it might not be feeling right to them. :eek: Even the court system has a penalty time when you commit a crime (not saying that a crime was committed here) but there should be rules, consequences and a penalty length laid out.

Some of you have worried that I would get into trouble over there by being here. I'm not worried about that, it's a free world and as I stated to a Mod. I can see both sides of the argument and for the sake of the at&t forum I think they should've let us, VCM'ers, know what could and couldn't take place and how long you could get banned for (regarding the VCM board). We

all

seemed at one point or another to take things for granted. Others feel that there were senior members who ruled the roost over other members and that "some of the" Mods. turned their heads As VCM'ers we were told that we had more freedom in the VCM than we did on the outside!! Whose fault was that? Certainly not ours as we didn't set the ground rules.

Okay now I'll get off my soapbox. :D
[Off-topic] mdhensley5:
A friend just got an invitation to banville

BeRich1949 started a thread called Guidelines referencing Sentry's answer to the "Why is..." thread. The thread was deleted before BeRich1949 could copy it, but here's what it basically said:

"So what you're saying is that there are no written guidelines concerning XDA that all users in the HTC forum can read and that the moderators can continue to pick and choose what they want to enforce and who they apply it to. This leaves a lot of leeway for moderators to use their banning powers against users that they might have personal issues with. Don't you think there ought to be written guidelines that are equally applied to all users?

Then, BeRich1949 got the following PM from Sentry.

FROM: Sentry

SENT: 11-05-2007 08:26:42 AM

Concerning your post...

I've already explained how the forum's operated and how closely we follow our management's directives when it comes to moderation. They approve all of our actions and if they do not, we reverse them immediately.

If you have issue with the way the forum is moderated or the way our management determines what information merits removal and which does not, feel free to join other forums. Do not post anymore discussion about this topic as it steers away from the purpose of the forum: to help customers.

If you are interested in helping fellow customers, feel free to do so and you will do it with my support and applause. If you're not interested in doing this and would rather attempt to stir up trouble where there is no trouble at all, I will remove you from the forum.

Thank you for your cooperation.
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
Darth **** at his best

Another good example of the dictator style he has. Every time someone poses a question to him, he may give an answer (if you want to call it an answer) but he will lock the thread. Nothing is left open for discussion with him. He says it, and that's final.

And if you notice, his message is, If you don't like it, LEAVE. While a lot of what he says in technically accurate, he has the bed side manor of a gorilla.

Also, he lays the reason for his actions on his management? :confused: That's a good one.
[Off-topic] FoneJunkie:
You noticied that too, eh?

BTW, he has ALWAYS been the master of the "post and lock it" approach. I think the rodeo thread was handled this way. I KNOW the spanish language forum threads were handled that way - except for the extra step of banning those who voiced anything in opposition to HIS thoughts on the matter.
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
Fone, I get the feeling Sentry is about 5'4"-5'6" tall in real life? No offense to short people, but he seems to have what I call short persons syndrome. It’s where they are over aggressive in some areas to make up for what they lack in physical stature. Or maybe it’s just inadequacy issues? You will see this a lot on the web. They are real tough and Billy bad on a web site, only because they are lacking in real life.

But again, short folks, that’s not a stab at all of you. It’s just something I’ve noticed in some people of shorter height. And this syndrome I describe is not necessarily because they are short. There are other factors involved.
[Off-topic] mdhensley5:
Hey G, I'm short, but my excuse is that I'm just a biotch! :D :p :o
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
ROFL... It's a woman’s God given right to be a bee-autch, since you all have to put up with us men. :p
[Off-topic] mdhensley5:
I've noticed that you've changed your location to out on parole. You must have done something right! :)
[Off-topic] Dream Rider:
Here is what Sentry posted in responce to BeRich:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BeRich1949 wrote:

Why was my previous guidelines post deleted? I posed valid questions that needed to be addressed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You did not and you're simply trying to push an issue that need not be pushed. If you're unhappy with the way this forum is moderated, there are many others you can join and participate in.

Our moderating is thoroughly reviewed and discussed with our management at length and we make decisions in accordance with the Guidelines, with our management's approval and in the best interest of the board. As I've stated in a private message to you, if you wish to participate in this forum and assist fellow customers, by all means, continue to do so. If you're not interested in doing such and would rather detract from the forum by continually posting threads like these, I will remove your posting permissions.

I beg that you adhere to the former. Thank you.
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
I think most of this statement is crap. I bet anything a lot of his actions are not reviewed by management. God help him if his management was made accessible to the members of that forum. It must be nice to have a job dealing with the public, and the public's only channel to complain about your service is through.... yourself. How biased do you think those reports would be?
[Off-topic] LuvMy8125:
So does inflammatory comments by AT&T employees. . .

Quote by Sentry on the AT&T Forums

Really?? In Sentry's response to being called out to make an official statement regarding post/links to xda, he now states the following:

So, which is it?? In the first quote, he seems to know enough about xda to "slam" the community but in the open forums, he states he doesn't know anything about this place.

I've been following with interest this thread AND the "ungluing" of the AT&T forums over the past few months. Apparently, the two AT&T mods in question think the "pet names" for them on here are ridiculously funny, so at least they're reading this thread with interest -- another reference that they know "about" this place.

But just for the record -- and I'm sure the xda moderators will back me up on this -- xda does NOT offer "stolen software" as stated by Sentry. I would advise him to read the following threads/posts where the xda staff has repeatedly asked users to remove software -- even screenshots -- that software developers claimed infringement of proprietary property that was posted in the AT&T Members' Forum in WhoopyDoo's "Why Is. . ." thread -- which, of course, was locked after Sentry's "official" response. In other words, "I have the last word here -- no further discussion."

A member on the AT&T forums posted these links as proof that xda doesn't advocate posting "stolen software"

I would have to agree with that forum member that it looks to me like they've bent over backwards to comply with the software developers and actually FROWN on the type of activities Sentry accused xda of in his initial statement. If I'm not mistaken, that makes Sentry's words those of AT&T's -- since he is an AT&T moderator. But in the public forum he has recanted his stance on the previous post. So, we still don't know what the "official" stance is regarding links to xda on the AT&T fourms and members over there will contiune to banned on a "case by case" basis.

Hmmm. . . I think I'll stick around awhile longer and see where THIS goes. In any event -- no matter HOW it goes -- I think I'd rather spend my time HERE, rather than on a forum where lies and half-truths are being disseminated by an "official" spokesperson for AT&T.
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
Sentry's Quote:

Sentry's Quote:

That's quite a contradiction in comments there. In reference to part of his quote, now ya know why he is biased to anything XDA related. He thinks this is a den of thieves and pirates. He should be careful throwing rocks, when living in a glass house.

And doesn't one always use that phrase to start a lie with?
[Off-topic] Athena:
It didn't use to be that way. When I first joined the AT&T Forum (2003?) the VCM was there for those who had reached Wireless Wizard rank, and it was very informative, the mods (pre-twin days) truly respected and looked forward to our ideas, and comments. But after G8Keepr left and the twins took over, the atmosphere totally changed. Sentry is the worst of the bunch. I have never seen such an ego, and lack of respect toward customers. (yes, we may have been members of the forum. But we're still customers), I was disgusted at his belligerence, so I asked to have my CL designation removed, in doing so, I got banned from VCM too. No loss though. I just wait for the day the AT&T forums go completely down, then I am going to pop open a bottle of tequila and celebrate.
[Off-topic] Athena:
All I did was resign my CL designation & got booted from the VCM, and use the word Spanish Inquisition.
[Off-topic] Athena:
*Athena waves* Just made it in!

Dmapr and I lost our privileges because we resigned our CL designations. I feel bad for Ms. Moose as well. She has to put up with not only the rude members, but also the twins..
[Off-topic] FoneJunkie:
I lost my VCM access shortly after resigning my CL status as well. There was a message about a gibberish error message and I simply stated that perhaps the message was written in Spanish... and THAT's why I was banned from VCM. Then there was a discussion about someone being promoted and I responded "congratulations" en espanol... and boom, no more access to the at&t forums.

Funny how comments in spanish caused my demise, yet there were a couple of members who were Hawaiian... and we often made comments in Hawaiian - congratulatory comments and such, and nary a problem... but when it came to spanish, one of the mods seems to have a muy grande chip on his shoulder.

But as I look back, I see that a lot of things were taken personally by the very people who were supposed to be thick-skinned - the moderators. For my part, I say "good riddance".

And to LuvMy8125, I say "don't hold your breath". Both sentry and wirelessforeman don't have the guts to respond to your questions... it's not their style. These are the mods who (as has been reported here several times), they would respond to a thread in which they felt challenged, then immediately locked the thread. THAT is how they operate.
[Off-topic] Athena:
If you're Praetor, then I'm Sentry.
[Off-topic] Athena:
Yep.. Sentr'y responses to people are generally just demands to never bring the subject up again. WF just gets offended too easily.
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
I agree... No tienen ninguna tuercas
[Off-topic] mdhensley5:
Spanish peanuts? :D
[Off-topic] GiGi77:
(waving hands wildly)Hey!! Glad to see that you are still around! :D We should have done roll call! :p
[Off-topic] mdhensley5:
Jameson! strikes again

GiGi, did you like how the Score! thread was deleted after Jameson! jumped in with his snarky comment?

Hey Jameson! here's your chat fodder! :D
[Off-topic] GiGi77:
Man! I always seem to be late! I just was reading my emails from the forum and saw what was posted and what the OP had posted! Shoot fire! It was GONE by the time I read it. :(

Taken from the Bible:

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you." (Luke 6:27-31. NIV)

:D Be blessed!
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
I've seen him get real rude with other members time after time. Now why hasn't he been banned?...... Oh wait a minute, maybe it has to do with the brown noser immunity rule.
[Off-topic] mdhensley5:
Those are some hard verses to follow. But, the world would be a better place if everyone did follow them.
[Off-topic] mdhensley5:
He asked if BeRich1949 was over there trying to get banned so that we would have another weeks worth of chat fodder over here. Then he said that BeRich1949 should really read the book he had posted over here.

BeRich1949 responded "Ah! It's the famous Jameson! I've heard stories about you. Are you trying to provoke me so that I will get banned? While we are recommneding books, I highly recommend the Bible."

Then the thread was deleted.
[Off-topic] GiGi77:
Well if I had've posted them over there it would have gotten deleted as we're not allowed to talk about God or His word or POLITICS! Which I saw on a subject line over here! :eek: There was a post this week on disabled customers getting a cheaper rate and before you knew it - it got heated and then locked. There again I was late to the part'ee! :p
[Off-topic] newbie2:
I saw that thread and his response. I'll have to say it was a COMPLETELY inappropriate response that he made. First of all, he in no way contributed anything to actually answering the question and second -- it was just plain inappropriate. If any of the rest of us had posted what he did, we WOULD be banned. :mad:

I didn't get to read BeRich's "comeback", though. By the time I read another thread and went back to the message listing, it was GONE!! :eek:
[Off-topic] GiGi77:
There seems to be alot of rudeness over there that goes past the Mods eyes. I've said it before and I'll say it again - crusty don't cut it! The forums are meant to be helpful and your responses shouldn't be snippy. Yeah, some of mine might be wordy but at least I don't chop them off at the knees! :mad:
[Off-topic] Praetor1:
well then it should make for some interesting reading then, maybe something good will come out of this user name finally.
[Off-topic] donnana:
You may have already won!

I can't add anything that's not been summed up already, and as much as there is no value in a "me too!" post, that's all I've got. I raise my glass to allofus! :cool:
[Off-topic] GiGi77:
Are you the real Praetor (he's changed his name to something else...Theras? or something like that) If you're NOT him then who are you? :confused: Come out come out! LOL :D
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
Come on Gi, ain't it obvious? :cool:
[Off-topic] whozethere:
I always call that Napoleon Syndrome. "Divide and Conquer" I believe that is what is progressing over at the other place.
[Off-topic] torquemada:
The sad thing is that Jameson! and the others are "Community Leaders" who were chosen to represent the best the forum had to offer those seeking help and assistance. "Dark Alley Thugs" would have been a better choice of title.
[Off-topic] GiGi77:
Well they first had to make their way up the ranks and then I assumed they got the CL after they made it past the I am a cell phone rank*. Mod. Moose stated that no one had gotten to the highest (at that point) and it was I am a tower.

*The CL part came after the revamping of the forum's rank.
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
wilcre, will you stop it with the P1 name. If you have issues with anybody here, you don't need to hide behind a mask to post it.
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
ROFL.. Darth **** and the Dark Alley Thugs, they should start a punk rock band. :p
[Off-topic] torquemada:
Sure. My remarks were truncated sarcasm. Community "Leaders" were in large measure those with the highest post counts. Most got the counts from a stream of fluff posts. One even holds conversations with himself wherein he will argue two or more sides of an issue in the same thread. Some high count posters who were real contributers didn't get in the first or second tranche. Some extraordinarily helpful people didn't get annoited because of their "rank" even though they ran/run circles around 90 percent of the Community "Leaders." But, as they say, it isn't what you know but who you know.

It is really difficult to politely discuss that place because of things like the mafia from the Third Party call center in Halifax, NS either belittling customers coming to the forum for help or passing unbelievable advice such as using a phoney SSN (I believe 123-45-6789) when registering an I-phone because that was how it was done on the training video. Other reps from other centers had a field day in the VCM before its demise by chortling over questions poor customers made in the open forums. One is also troubled by a situation where one Community "Leader" is also one of the mods who uses a different name when handling official duties. To me that situation is difficult to justify by any civilized standard.

Seems to me the place must be similar to Berlin in the spring of 1945: an increasingly isolated and paranoid leadership continually moving deeper into the fuehrer bunker while outside dazed and dispirited citizens wander woefully through the rubble hoping they are not the next to be summarily executed by a roving band of thugs. I imagine those in the bunker must have been about ready to pass out the cyanide pills when they found they had a spy in their new secret chamber. :)

By the way, Torquemada is a reference to the Spanish Inquisition. :)
[Off-topic] FoneJunkie:
Agreed. Step up and voice them like a man, if you dare. No need to hide your true identity... heck we all already know you...