yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z5 General] Daniel_GB:
[MENTION=229794]Xeon[/MENTION]

Can you tell me why you think the iPhone picture is better? it looks grainy....

I can understand what you dislike about Z5 picture...

Just compare the interface between vapor and bowl on both pictures, Z5 clearly resolve the interface better
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
it's a personal preference but if you look at both pictures, a grainy picture will give you much better details than a watery one. Why ? because in my opinion and after edges are well defined and picture is sharper. Ok the Z5 has a point when it comes to smoke because already most pics are blurred and that ironically helps clouds and smokes. But if you look at the chopstick, the label exactly, it looks well defined on the 6S.

Check both pics on dropbox. Many details missing on the Z5p

This is the compressed JPEG from 6S and IMO still looks better.... look at the glass, fruits, mint etc...
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Dont bother until people learn to adjust FOV for sensor width else it's just pointless but Z5 resolves tons of more detail than any Iphone. So does any Z1+ camera. Just look for the example of Falaxy S6 vs S7. People say S6 resolves more detail, finegrain detail is sharper but fail to notice that S6 sensor is 28mm and S7 is 26mm. That means S7 sensor is wider and thus captures more of the scene but also optically zooms out. Distance has to be adjusted for fair comparision.

I believe part of the aggressive post-processing Samsung applies for S7 is due to the wider sensor to try to mitigate the unadjusted difference but you can only do so and so and no magic. They understand people wont understand the sensor width and FOV aspect when comparing and then you have those that ignore it to drive their agenda. And they wont post FOV correct comparisions and instead continue with the badly done comparisions as it would drive their point to the bin. :eek:

Manila Shaker has some comparisions with sensor width adjustment for some photo sessions. AFAIK 8MP mode superior auto for Z5.

http://www.manilashaker.com/wp-cont...premium-vs-galaxy-note-5-lg-v10-nexus-6p5.jpg

http://www.manilashaker.com/wp-cont...s-galaxy-note-5-camera-review-comparison1.jpg

http://www.manilashaker.com/wp-cont...-galaxy-note-5-camera-review-comparison10.jpg

One can also see how excessive sharpening destroys the bokeh dept of field effect as it gets grainy due to sharpening filters not knowing it is bokeh and wanted. :cool:
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
Interesting comps for 8mp of all sensors..Would like to see this comparision with full 23mp from z5 vs the other phones at 8mp ?.... But Anyway, for me the z5 camera hardware or software is just crap in relation to detail for my opinion...
[Xperia Z5 General] brysonwong:
What lens material is the z5 having? Glass or plastic lens?
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
Plastic.
[Xperia Z5 General] Allek84:
Here s two 23 mpx shots

look at the details ;)
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
Good when not zoomed..

But you mean these blurry and noisy details? ?
[Xperia Z5 General] Allek84:
Its not perfect always and in every part of image,but I thinks that would be fixed trough some sw updates.Same things was happened with Z1 and Z2 earlier.
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
Let's hope that Sony does it soon... I believe It's well known that there camera algorithm and app is not as good as Sony claims.. I believe they just don't have the Devs to get rid of this problems.. I think some Devs form XDA (that guy ho made camera V4) is much better than sonys camera software development team. Maybe someone ho have good connection to one of the XDA Devs, could make them contact Sony or something like this ?
[Xperia Z5 General] WookieLance:
So much conflicting information here.. so very very much!

I came in here looking for insight as to if this was true.. and if there were better alternatives too Sony's software meaning if there are that the DRM is kinda pointless to bother worrying about if a custom firmware provides support for much better algorithms. Instead just flame wars about FOV and distances.

Clearly the image is muddy this I won't deny. I can admit under certain conditions mostly indirect sunlight the camera does spit out better photos from than most if your use of these are for social networking and standard photo frame prints. Zoom is always muddy compared to some other phones I have used with less Mp but these issues seem to be mostly just personal, some prefer grainy but detailed others prefer the muddy but smoother look. Both of these issues can be resolved with photoshop but that is not the point is it!

The point would be that we really should not be getting muddy photos period at this resolution, what to blame... well nobody knows so everything is speculation and uncertainty is everywhere, however I do find it rather odd that a tear down does not reveal the sensor used. maybe someone with circuit experience can do a closer analysis of the sensor versus the one Sony claims it too be to find out if the sensor is even remotely close to too what is claimed.
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
Thanks. That what I really hope. We need to know what inside the phone exactly.

Btw, you can fix grainy pics with photoshop true, but it's much more difficult for muddy.
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
Found a very good explained post about the Xperia z5 about the camera / algorithm

( the long post from zegun)

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=66113611

That's why I don't believe in a change of quality for our z5 ?

And today I've taken some "tripod" like photos at 8mp 16:9 than at 20mp 16:9... And the 8mp shots looks much better ?

Just download the pics to your device, open , zoom in and compare! Wtf? The "mighty" algorithm is in my opinion just for upsampling ? and its doing a very bad job...

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/57jm7sbmih4n8gk/AAATuLbhoRz7OKACHxmbPmVDa?dl=0

What we can do about this!?
[Xperia Z5 General] Daniel_GB:
You really think that they are actually up-scaling a 8MP image to 23MP image and marketing a 8 MP sensor as a 23 MP one???

That is going to destroy SONY brand...they are not fool, they know somebody will reveal this and then they are finished...
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
And what makes it all funny is that they already have high class 20,7, 21,5, 24,77MP sensors that beats custom medium-end solutions they make for other phone manufacturers. Why put in an 8MP sensor? Id for camera shows it is IMX300, they say it is IMX300. I guess some people still belive earth is flat. Tinfoil hat warning. Until the armchair "experts" look att the delta in detail clarity between RAW and over-processing like S7 does and takes into account the sensor width there will be no sensible discussion. Bookmark this page and look back a year or two from now and it will look like a circus.

One can just do a pixel step count as in article I linked to previously. Z5 does native 23/24,77MP. The pixels steps shows it. Solid proof. :cool:
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
It is just hard to believe because of the poor image quality in full resolution.. they don't let use other official third-party apps there full sensor.. Than the DRM key thing... They doesn't give statement about specs of the sensor or what sensor it actually is. IMX300 is speculation and not confirmed by Sony.. There is no RAW support. And hardware scanning Apps like AIDA64 can't read the sensor information...

Do you think the big companies are honest every time with everything the talk? ?

Sure...

But as I said.. It's just very very hard to believe it is an 25mp sensor
[Xperia Z5 General] hawker_gb:
Is there really people which believe that Sony cheat on camera specs? Lol.

Am I on XDA or on some not very knowledgeable forum?

Xperia Z5 via Tapatalk
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
Well the OP made himself clear. It's not they are cheating but they are hiding way too much....

You know how it's with SONY.... you don't even know if your screen is gorilla glass, shatter proof whatsoever. Is it ? OK it's scratch "resistant" but my 2008 Nokia has a scratch resistant panel... even my tempered glass protector is...

1080 -> 4K ( no difference )

13 MP -> 23 MP ( no difference )

One speaker - > two speakers ( no or barely any difference )

Good hardware, waste of cash....
[Xperia Z5 General] hawker_gb:
Then buy other brand and get over with it,simple.

I like my Z5 photos,my wife likes her S7 photos,everybody happy.

Xperia Z5 via Tapatalk
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
Or maybe you can ignore this thread and get on with your life ?

You like your Z5, your wife bla bla... nice. Many users don't like the camera performance and there is a 200 pages thread already, not the place for your to be.

Btw.. I like my Z5P as I find the battery performance, design and screen impressive.

Someone already asked if it's really an IMX300 in our phone and so far nobody knows. Time will tell...
[Xperia Z5 General] hawker_gb:
Well,I won't ignore.

Many users likes performance of camera,some users don't. You cannot please everyone.

Saying that Sony just upscaling and cheating on specs is plain stupid anyway.

Xperia Z5 via Tapatalk
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
Well, I see its senseless to continue this discussion... And I'm not dumb or stupid just because I don't believe everything without asking for detail..

The picture quality is good when you don't zoom to 100% scale. And that's why I'm wondering and asking questions..

I like my z5, but in terms of detail of pictures, compared to my old z1, it's just disappointing..

I hope they're going to do something about this in future updates..

But Like zeon said, time will tell...
[Xperia Z5 General] Yakkosmurf:
I wasn't able to view all of the posted samples, so my comments are based on my own testing. As a very experienced DSLR user, I was interested in finding a phone with better picture quality than my iPhone 5S. I've been pleased with the output from my Z5, but I've also learned its limitations.

From looking at the picture results, I definitely believe the sensor is 23MP. I have several other cameras, including a DSLR, with this resolution to know what to look for. I definitely see more detail than you'd get from upsampling or from my iPhone 5S, with it's 8MP camera. What I see in the Z5 pics is a software implementation that does two things. First, it turns up the ISO sensitivity of the sensor significantly in lower lighting conditions. Second, it does a similar post processing of these image as to the JPEG engine on my old Sony DSLR, which gives similar results from its JPEGs at high ISO values. Well lit scenes with the Z5, provide exactly the level of fine detail I would expect from a sensor with the specs provided. But, as soon as the light dims, the two issues I mentioned kick in, leading to those smudgy results.

So, like any tool, I know the limitations and plan accordingly. Just my observations. Much like my old Sony DSLR, the RAW files are fabulous, but the processed JPEGs aren't good in low light. Maybe we'll get RAW capability at some point. Then, I'd only shoot in RAW just like with my DSLR.
[Xperia Z5 General] thesebastian:
In my case the camera details are so bad that I cant even consider this as a 8MP camera.

The only way to get good details (but still not excellent) is under a perfect sunny sky or very illuminated place.

MM improved details a bit, but just a tiny difference.

I have the Compact version but if I were you I'd just go for a Nexus 5X or 6P. The focus is excellent in medium light. You can capture much better details. The difference is the night and day, you don't even need to open the picture in a big PC monitor to notice that.

I really don't know wtf Sony do with their phone camera drivers to work like this.

Sent from my E5823
[Xperia Z5 General] bubimir13:
I don't see where is the problem except the blue tint in dark areas in low light. I can't believe they cannot fix that. Other than that its a great camera if you know how to use it well.
[Xperia Z5 General] FYLin21:
Sadly I think this is a hardware problem. The HTC M7/Butterfly s/One Mini had a similar problem with purple tint or striping. HTC kept saying it was a software problem that could be fixed with firmware updates, but most people insisted that the problem remained - if it was apparent you should get it repaired or exchanged ASAP. Mine was just some striping in pitch black, but HTC later repaired it but the white balance is now bad (it used to be a bit more purple now it's orange and green).
[Xperia Z5 General] Ben36:
I was looking at a smartphone camera page where they're testing them out. And came across this.....

If the sensor is 23MP then why would Sony recommend only using the 8MP option??
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
That's very interesting [emoji16] found the article:

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/test-centre/mobile-phone/best-phone-camera-of-2016-3612824/

Slowly is getting hard for Sony to proof there camera abilities [emoji6]
[Xperia Z5 General] bubimir13:
Bacause of oversampling. Just like Lumia 1020 did with 5mpx on a 41mpx sensor. Did they cheat also? Don't think so...
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
In my opinion when I buy a phone with called 23mp camera, I want a camera what can do good 23mp photos...
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
Because it doesn't make sense... and yes, although they're not technically lying but tricking is cheating.

They could have had the balls to stand up and say it's an 8 MP and named it whatever they wanted... HTC already did that with the Ultrapixel thing...

And the Lumia 920 is a different story...The lens itself uses a system of six lenses.... the 41mp sensor is able to capture 34 and 38 mp images at 16:9 and 4:3 aspect ratios, AND at the very same time, the device captures a 5-megapixel oversampled image....

The only reason they had to use a 23MP sensor ( 25 MP ) on the Z5 is just for lossless zoom.... See at 8MP your pics aren't as bad as 23 MP....

Capture @ 23 MP with no zoom and zoom in the picture = 3x zoom @ 23MP

Just marketing BS...... 23MP for 3x clear zoom ; 20 MP for aspect ratio and 8MP for the true sensor potential..... Coincidence ? no.....
[Xperia Z5 General] Daniel_GB:
I'm not going to buy any SONY phone if they are actually lying about camera specs!

However, please stop guessing! if you have any proof of what you are talking about then please inform us!

You can say what you think, but they are not facts...
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
Actually you're right, we are guessing because there is no fact that it's a 23 MP camera except for the specs sheet. NO information about the sensor type whatsoever and for SONY to recommend shooting at 8MP means a lot.

it's like putting a 5000 MP sensor in a cam and advise to use the 12 MP mode because the 5000 mode will give you crappy images....

Think of it... 4K video needs 8 MPixels... it's already there. Camera doesn't have to use more than 8Mpix.... you multiply this by 3 ( 3X lossless zoom ) and tada.... 23.xx MP

Numbers aren't coincidence. They know what they're doing and they know that the 8MP is the optimum resolution your device will be using for best shots.... The post processing does a much better job when you go 8MP as it has to deal with too much noise and artifacts on 23 MP.

I'm 99% convinced that it's indeed a 23MP sensor but the extra 15-16 MP are no use and it helps in nothing but marketing.... it's actually detrimental to the picture output specifically in low light.

Now let me ask you. Why would the resolution in settings drop from 23MP -20MP directly down to 8MP ? Nothing in between ? Got my point ? The OP has a point. In fact no we aren't stupid for believing that SONY might be cheating but we're also not too dumb to believe everything they say.
[Xperia Z5 General] FYLin21:
First of all, Sony said the Clear Image Zoom was 5x not 3x, and it can go even further if you want (just one of the wildlife photographers SUGGESTED 3x as the sweetspot). Now THAT is an upsampling algorithm to 23MP, and worse than images without zoom or even cropped. If normal images were really upscaled from 8MP, why do "zoom" images look so bad. The fact is that high resolution sensors don't always mean more detail - poor lens optics and noise will be more apparent. For example Nikon stuck with 12MP for a long time on their DSLRs, until Sony developed a good sensor for them.

Also, 4K video doesn't use the full frame, unless you're suggesting that 4K video was upscaled from a lower resolution....
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
It's 3X @ 23 MP and 5X @ 8MP which is the same... Test it and check what I'm talking about. The 3X @ 23MP is closer than the 5X at 23MP so the limit is 3X at sensor full resolution.
[Xperia Z5 General] Daniel_GB:
It's clear that a mobile size sensor can't take proper low light pictures at very high resolution!

That is why I usually use lower resolution when taking low light pictures!

It's not about believing in everything, however we need proof to decide better in future...

The OP says SONY is cheating about 23MP which means the sensor is not a true 23MP....

You think it's coincidence that SAMSUNG decided to use 12MP sensor on S7 instead of 16MP? and they are advertising low light capabilities as an advantage over S6!

I know resolution is not everything but it is a key factor!

Well I know what you are talking about since Xperia X10i and nobody ever proved that they are lying about camera specs!
[Xperia Z5 General] hawker_gb:
Lizards from fourth dimension.

Chemtrails.

Flat Earth.

Sony cheat on specs.

What these things have in common?

Good laugh and ignorants filter.
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
Again technically they aren't lying but it's the same story with memory... a 16GB storage phone where 10GBs are already occupied by the system.... You think that 16GBs are more than enough when in fact you're left with 4 GB ( bit-bytes conversion )

Long story short, it's about fooling end users into believing something when the truth is completely different....
[Xperia Z5 General] thesebastian:
IMO the camera of the Z5 is pure s**t.

The adaptive Brightness bug (with the gamma) and the Photo Quality are the 2 weak points of this phone. Everything else is fine. ( The first one has nothing to do with the camera, btw).

Terrible mid-light photos. And awful details. You can only get good details under a lot of light, and still are not good compared to other lower MP cameras. I'd give a huge prize to Sony for a fantastic marketing campaign with this camera, nothing more.

After been using this camera for over 8 months I can say people should not care about camera MP or camera hardware for the next android phone, because the software/drivers are terrible here. The only thing I could recommend for your next phone is to check:

- OIS (It would be nice to have it).

- Minimum focus distance (terrible in SONY, specially in mid light. Forget about close-ups filling a great part of the photo)

- And maybe the HDR/HDR+ quality (in case you take too many mid light photos like me and you want great details).

And I didn't even try to open the bootloader. If I think the current quality is terrible, I can't imagine what could I think with an open bootloader (without that DRM patch some people is using).

I find this phone, good for photos of some landscapes with a lot of light. For other than this, I don't recommend it.

So, in summary, this camera is OK. But for a 2013-2016 flagship phone, is terrible.
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
I think some people might have bought chinese Z5 copies. Or even worse they just painted the Z5 logo onto a potato and pretend it's the real deal.[emoji23]
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
You guys are so funny... Not

Updated firmware to .185 today and in my opinion the photo quality at full resolution is slightly better when zooming to 100%.

Can someone confirm this or is it just wish thinking on my site?

And guys... if you don't have something useful to say, please don't post stupid out of context sh*t...
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
What more is there to discuss? Fact is it has a 24,75MP sensor, it uses minimal post-processing akin to DSLRs cameras and no upsampling nor 8MP sensor. What is left is speculating about chinese copies and potatoes with painted Z5 logo as what would be the only reason to believe Z5 series has a sensor with 8MP or less. :cool:
[Xperia Z5 General] gm007:
Could be Sony is using different module in each phone as they did with the screens before,that's why some people are happy with the camera and some not.
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
You're saying through the flower, people ho don't like the Foto quality or don't believe in everything Sony is saying, may are stupid and actually don't have a real z5... I've updated my first post with pointing at Xeons explanation about the truth potential of the 25mp sensor.

And this makes more sense than your "Sony is best" statements...

...[emoji41]...
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
That's something they need to tweak or atleast allow user to disable digital image stabilisation in SA mode (seems it disables itself in manual after some use). Editing the camera app profile and disabling it there just makes the app override it next time it launches. However manual mode itcan be disabled/enabled via the xml configuration file. DIS makes often the ISO go twice as high as needed to have faster shutter speed. Seems to target 1/32 range. :cool:
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
Yes, but Xeon isn't wrong at some point I think.

I don't believe Sony is going to do something to fix this.. Sadly.. You know the z5 camera unlocked mod in this forum. But it's only for rooted users :(

Why the hell Sony don't unlock this features on his own!? I don't want to unlock my bootloader to have a better camera [emoji19]

I don't know if it's possible to make an camera update with this features unlocked for non rooted users. If, it would be a big step for XDA-Developers. Because my believing in Sonys Dev team is gone...
[Xperia Z5 General] Mahdian57:
from changing xperia z >z1>z2>z5 I've seen a lots of improvement. Z5 takes nice pic . it's so obvious. even if you see them on e.g a PC.

but low light performance like other small sensor is terrible yet (flash could help in portrait photography not other scenarios). maybe those who want better picture in low light condition buy a full frame dslr or mirror-less and take at least at ISO2000 to satisfy their self.
[Xperia Z5 General] albertobom:
Just asking and not to offend anyone here but do you guys, the ones that are complaining, even have fotographer skills? You need to know how to use the modes of the camera, the iso etc in every scenario to get the most of camera.
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
Maybe you can take a look at my Flickr Xperia z1 album... Most Fotos are with macro lens

https://flic.kr/s/aHsky5ENdf

Sadly you can't change the iso or scenes at full resolution in manual mode... Sonys "manual mode" is just a piece of sh*t...
[Xperia Z5 General] albertobom:
I'm not defending Sony but it's a mobile phone with a camera not a camera with a phone. I think the pictures are not the best in the world BUT you still can make good ones. For daily use superior auto is enough for most users BECAUSE most out there don't know photograph basics to make a decent picture. ?
[Xperia Z5 General] albertobom:
Just to adding a little note.

A read, don't know where, that mobile screen can't give you total detail of picture taken for certain degree of megapixel. What I'm trying to say is to see a full 23 MP detail you must use other kind of display, not a mobile one because on that kind of screen you won't be able to see the total picture size and detail, the picture is just to big for your mobile screen to handle it. ?
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
Sure it's a phone with a camera, but in my opinion not as good as claimed by Sony...

Well, I'm going to close this thread because there is noting more to discuss here.

It's a 25mp sensor with very bad software.

And I hope Sony is changing something about it in the future. [emoji58]
[Xperia Z5 General] albertobom:
Read my previous post, might be helpful. ?