yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
I'd never go as far as to say "paid". But most tech sites are not photography sites. they see an image that they can crop into 300% and still see sharp detail and they proclaim it the best. But that detail is fake on the S7. It has been reconstructed not captured. It shows.

Detail is there but it's harsh and artificial. Images look "Wowzer" on first inspection but they have little depth or nuance. EQ said it earlier: they're like cheap digital camera shots. The Sony is going for images that look like the scene you're looking at - balancing white balance, exposure, fucus and detail preservation to get the most "true to life" image, as a DSLR does. The S7 looks unobjectively amazing but put it next to a DSLR and it fails miserably because it's not attempting to capture the scene: it's trying to improve it: trying to give you what Samsung thinks you want to see,... including "hyper sharp". The S7 isn't better because it's sharper, it's worse because it's too sharp.

Appreciation of that kind of thing is lost on most tech sites, who only test the camera on a device for maybe a few hours, and it's one of many many reviews they have to do in a week. They see "Clean and sharp and bright in low light" and say it's better. But it's a very narrow understanding on what makes a photo look good.
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
So you wanna tell me that the Z5 performs better than the S6 / note5 / S7 in low light ?
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
At 8MP vs. an S6 or Note 5, if you adjust for the FOV: yes. Yes I am. Especially after MM.

Less detailed because of the MP drop? Yes. A tiny bit more noise at the edges? Possibly (but I've seen Note 5/S6 shots with awful levels of low light noise). But as overall pictures, with colour, shadow, definition and balance: absolutely they are. Or can be, in the right hands.

I've not seen quite enough S7 night shots to definitively say either way. What I have seen on Flickr I've not been blown away by: again they're often too bright and artificial, with surprising levels of noise in some cases.

The advantage that the S6/7 has over the Z5 is RAW capture: take Sammy's heavy-handed processing out of the equation. Take a RAW night shot on an S6 and put it through a half-decent photo editor and you'll get better results. As a point and shoot to simply upload into an album, I'm not going to say that the S7 looks, at this point, particularly better than the Z5. And I'd put the Z5's daylight output well ahead of Sammy's.

Samsung could make it great: I'm not hating on them. But to do that, they're going to have to lay off the heavy-handed post-processing on JPEGs.
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
Well yeah but the Z5 has already the better hardware. That's the issue. Maybe someone can upload night shots in the S7 and compare them to the Z5/Z5p ?
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
An example of what EQ and I have been saying:

Here are two pictures: one taken with a Z5 on maximum resolution, the other with an S7 on maximum - the level of light is similar and both are high-detail shots. Which one looks more natural?

S7: https://flic.kr/p/FA3AFt

or Z5 https://flic.kr/p/zMaFKc

To my eyes, the S7 image looks flat, over-bright and way too sharp. The result is harsh and lifeless. But to look at it from a journo's point of view: "Oh look at the detail! Look how sharp everything is! Isn't it marvellous?" But it ain't - it's hard to look at for any real length of time.

The London Z5 shot still has a tonne of detail to crop into, thanks to its higher MP sensor, but it's letting the hardware do the heavy lifting: superior camera module needs less post processing. It's a natural and pleasant image to look at, even if some of the extra fine detail is softly defined. It's still there but it's not processed within an inch of its life to pull it to the fore.

Look at the mess the S7 made of this shot: https://flic.kr/p/FzaktB - awful HDR halos, the detail has FAR too much contrast and sharpening, and there's chroma noise in the sky. It's like someone's vomited on my computer screen. It's dreadful.

An equivalent Z5 shot (High detail, stonework, potential issues with high contrast on the ground and walls): https://flic.kr/p/yZSf6G It didn't fire HDR so the sky is blown out, which is a shame. But at the same time, the detail reproduction is extremely high, even with worse lighting, and the detail is naturally reproduced.

On night shots: here's one from an S7: https://flic.kr/p/FkqRPX - At first glance, it looks quite sharp and bright. Problem is: it's too bright. The church is clipped, the colour is way too warm and the detail on the branches is harsh and over-sharp. It's not a convincing reproduction of the scene. It's fake.

[Edited to select a more equivalent Z5 shot] Take this Z5 shot. Less light to deal with and yet the detail is very high. Shadows are retained, colours are accurate, the brightness of the scene is well handled. The only slight issues are the flares from light sources and a slight graininess across the frame. https://flic.kr/p/Bf4FJ4

So much of this thread has people moaning about the S7 being so superior. It really isn't.
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
They really need to tone that sharpening down amongst other things. The dog is lovely but I can feel the headache grow the longer I look at it and we are talking seconds. Feels like looking straight into an xenon flashlight.

And when ISO ramps up to very high values the NR gets quite aggressive and the curve manipulation is increased making black turn into grey and giving the 'faking high ISO' look. Contrast gets thrown off and it gets the 'looking through a muddy window' look.

Easily seen here where both photos have a shutter speed of 1/4 and ISO 1250.

Another one which is better but since tungsten lighting is dominating the whole scene it is not that noticable and also ISO is lower.

Here is a Z1 low light photo at 1/8, ISO 1600, Sony camera app, manual mode 20,7MP - High ISO mode. The integrity of the image is far better and blacks are close to what they should be despite a high ISO. And on top of that the lit objects are furter away which makes it even harder to capture detail compared to close-to-camera lit objects or macro doing higher ISO values.

And here at 1/8 ISO 200, Sony camera app, manual mode 20,7MP - Locked ISO 200. This is pretty much how it looked to the eye though a bit more visibility in the shadowed areas. And so for the whole Xperia Z1+ line even going high ISO they keep the blacks in good check yet capturing for such harsh conditions tons of detail and employs low amount of post-processing. The signs of excellent sensors. :cool:

Now I am off to play some with the Z5c for low light photos. Haven't tested it fully out after MM. :silly:
[Xperia Z5 General] bubimir13:
If not for blue marks on edges of the dar areas i would totally take Z5's over any smartphone hands down. But those marks... Can't believe they can't sort it out finally...
[Xperia Z5 General] Dpk1:
I agree with [MENTION=6922850]EQ2000[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5126759]Timaustin2000[/MENTION]. The camera output (daylight) on Z5 is clearly better than S7 imo. Yesterday i went to a local store as I was very much interested in buying one (S7). The phone itself seemed pretty amazing to me but i was let down by the very artificial looking (heavily processed) daylight photos! Frankly they look worse than S6 (which i had for 10 months) to me. The camera is the snappiest out there but wont buy it for the said reason!

P.S. - Samsung seems to have reduced the oversharpening by a new firmware update. Will need to review the camera output myself now! The camera speed is breathtaking imo.. :)
[Xperia Z5 General] devilmaycry2020:
I think Sony need to improve camera algorithm so they can defeat any phones, I bet it
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
It's still way to high with new firmware as the first photo with the dog in the comparision post from Tim is with the new firmware according to the owner of the photo. Seems they just dont want to dial it down 8 notches, just 1.
[Xperia Z5 General] hansip87:
It seems that Samsung targets detail more than anything else, which casual people like. Sony on the other hand, uses their algorithm from their ILC cameras, which might be good with big sensor but not as sharp as casual people would like it to be with small sensor. Video quality is another matter and Sony proves to everyone that OIS can still be beaten with EIS for video. I believe Sony might improve on SteadyShot and bring it to Still photography in the future.

All in all though, i believe DXOmark score is a fact, not a paid one, it's just people like to focus on sharpness alone than anything else. Yes S7 Edge might top Z5 by a single point but to say Z5 cameras are bad is unjustified.
[Xperia Z5 General] Daniel_GB:
a few pictures from my Z5p in a rainy day!

20MP + 16:9 + superior auto

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bw_5WeqOkEnzaGZCc2FvZ2lGU0E&usp=sharing
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Great photos! Tons of detail, clean and barely any or no post-processing artifacts visible. Makes for uniform images instead of ones that looks layered and artificial. The DSLR natural look. :cool:
[Xperia Z5 General] Daniel_GB:
that is exactly what I like about SONY's Xperia line!

pictures look natural...colors are real!

Yes, it should be better than S7 as we are using better sensor! but laughing??? I don't think so...

Look at this picture, you can even see the engines;) (download the full size image)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw_5WeqOkEnzYmtKSjRHZXM2M1U/view?usp=sharing
[Xperia Z5 General] Wave__:
Z5 got a verry powerful camera but here

http://blogs.sonymobile.com/2015/11/03/capturing-wildlife-photography-at-dawn-with-chaitanya-desphande/

It's very unbelievable :eek:

I think we don't have the Same Z5 or talents :D

Sent using XDA One
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
Indeed very good but then again you can't tell if it's blurred or smudgy in the middle of the clouds or fog. lol....
[Xperia Z5 General] Wave__:
Yes exactly !

I tried to show up that famous blur which is visible on some shoot, so it's really Z5's photos
[Xperia Z5 General] TobbeSwe:
My Z5 doesn´t take that nice and clean shots no matter what settings or mode i use!!!
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Well clean the lens cover and check for damage such as scratches. If it's clean then delete camera app data and camera common app data. If neither helps there are good beginner guides to learn how to take photos becouse you cant really take bad photos with Xperia Z1+ cameras compared to other brands in the mobile space from the hardware and software point of view. Only user can make it bad just like you could make bad DSLR photos that look like it came from a potato despite being from a 900$ camera. :cool:
[Xperia Z5 General] Daniel_GB:
Well I don't use any special settings!

To be honest, the only thing I know about photography is to press the shutter to capture!:D

I just use the superior auto mode!

try what [MENTION=6922850]EQ2000[/MENTION] suggested!
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
People usually prefer details for quality for one simple reason.... Whether the pic is too sharp or not, my issue with the Z5 is that it's hit and miss....

When I take a photo in a seminar of a presentation, I rarely get enough details to be able to read what's on the projector. Zoom 100% and it's unreadable whereas other mobile cameras have no problem with that.

Take a picture of a bottle of water for example.

This is from 70-80 cm with and without flash. I can barely ready what's written on the DAC or bottle at 100%
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Well you cant read anything on most other mobile phones at such low light conditions. I would guesstimate that if you are using superior auto you are at 2500-4000 ISO. Good luck with any Samsung phone since they dont go beyond ISO 1250 in auto mode and drop no lower than 1/4 alt 1/7 for shutter speed. :laugh:

Point is dont use bad conditions on one phone versus good conditions for other phone(s) just to skew the comparision. And on top of that are using the hosting system of XDA to host 4-4,5MP photo at 0,2MB (XDA greatly destroys IQ by using heavy jpeg compression). For such conditions it would have been originally 2-3,5MB for your cropped photos. Better luck next time. :cool:
[Xperia Z5 General] mch277:
Sony's Xperia camera software department isn't up to far. Old news.
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
Not really. The original picture size is 4 MB. It's not me who's posting pictures in full day light to prove a point. I wish I had a Samsung or iPhone next to me but I only have the Z, Z1 and Z5P for now. Waiting for my sister to come back.

That's the full size of the picture if you have doubt. Even JPEG compression doesn't really affect it that much....

http://i.cubeupload.com/DizSMn.jpg

And the ISO value is 100..... because of the screen helping...... with screen off ISO is at 800 and you can barely read anything on the bottle. Trust me I so want my device to win this....
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Now you get perspective to distance and the whole image. Detail in dark needs detail extraction it will suffer, detail in parts with more contrast is more detailed. You can read your amps display and it's reflection on the table. You can ofcourse cherry pick but other phones would also suffer in low contrast areas. However for ISO 100 your photo sure is strange as the black level does not match what would be expected. Such amounts of NR and detail extraction is applied when exceeding ISO 400 with increasing strenght. The glare might fool though but I hope you aint doing exif swapping/modification. :laugh:
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
So you're saying that I'm editing or modifying the pic before upload ? It's on Superior Auto. Either my camera has issues which I doubt or there's something I'm missing here. I wouldn't really consider my room low light condition there is a 800 Watts of lighting and already the camera went on ISO 100 because of the screen of the iMac.

When the screen is off it's on ISO 800 but output is worse.

http://s12.postimg.org/ha8dzjfqz/DSC_0198.jpg
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Well it goes for 1/32 shutter speed at ISO 100 which means it could do same with 1/16 ISO 50. I would think then that is what it would go for in manual mode. Well your desk has lots of low contrast areas and shades for a room that has 800W worth of lighting (Thats like 13 strong bulbs lol).
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
That's just this :
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
800W in there!? I mean that is what you use for spotlights in movies and photography sessions. But you are aiming it against the roof and narrowly aimed so your room looks like a low light environment judging by the shades and shadows in your photos. The diffusion and the direction showing what is being the main source and strength. :cool:
[Xperia Z5 General] Daniel_GB:
If by people posting pictures in full day light you are referring to me, then I have to say that I have already posted pictures in different lightening!

The camera performance is way better than acceptable for me!

Yes low light performance is not that good which I'm sure it's because of my little knowledge about photography!!

But saying it's laughing compare to S7 is pretty harsh;)

here are a few photos at night: (I have tried manual mode at nights as [MENTION=6922850]EQ2000[/MENTION] suggested)

20MP + 16:9 + superior auto + ISO 500

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw_5WeqOkEnzMHN1cXVLempsVEk/view?usp=sharing

8MP + 16:9 + Manual + ISO 100

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw_5WeqOkEnzOEU0aFo2UHpwZGc/view?usp=sharing

20MP + 16:9 + superior auto + ISO 1600

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw_5WeqOkEnzREd2WDZIaGd4WVk/view?usp=sharing

8MP + 16:9 + Manual + ISO 100

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw_5WeqOkEnzbFJ2Z250dTZQUzQ/view?usp=sharing

The manual ones are pretty acceptable, aren't they?:o
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
I think people didn't get the title correctly. I can't stop laughing because of the reviews giving the upper hand to S7 in low light performance with an inferior hardware ( IMX260 )

Yes the low light pics are OK but sometimes terrible. I'm not comparing the z5 to S7 in manual mode. I'm comparing both in Auto mode. It's the software that gives the upper hand to the S7.

My whole point in this thread's that SONY software is flawed compared to the iPhone and Samsung. You are most of the time forced to go manual mode to take a good shot which defeats the purpose as it should have been made to capture good moments on the spot.

Why should I care about a 0.2 ms faster autofucs if I'm going to spend the rest of my life correcting settings in manual mode ?

Most phone users aren't pro photographer, they want a good camera out of the box. No tweaks no adjusted settings nothing. Pick and shoot. Is it good ? does it have rich details ? is it clear ? Does it have good color reproduction ? So far the only point I give to the Z5P is color accuracy.

Bro, I've been in a wedding diner last week and it was a bit cozy, the Z5 pics were not on par with the 6S and I can upload proof. Ok it was low light and I was in Superior Auto but that's not my problem. People don't have time to wait for you to adjust your camera so you could take a " good " photo.
[Xperia Z5 General] Daniel_GB:
Well now I understand what you are talking about;)

Yes, you are right:good: SONY's software is not suitable for point and shot occasions at low light conditions!

And I think it's completely a software related problem in that situations, because in Manual mode you can take way better pictures!
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Yeah though I would think higher ISO was with the moon. Tried the scene mode "High ISO"? Also low light will make IQ suffer and that goes for all mobile phones. Readable letters wont be as readable on other phones when lights are dimmed. :cool:

Some samples of S7 in low light.

Z5 performs better in low light than 6S Plus and preserves natural colors while the Iphone desaturates by using vibrancy reduction and tweaks the luminance curve to fake more visibility at the cost of making the black turn grey and whole image look watered down. Like others do to and S7. :cool:

https://i0.wp.com/www.manilashaker....s-galaxy-note-5-camera-review-comparison1.jpg
[Xperia Z5 General] gm007:
After seeing this samples I'm selling my Z5 to get S7 :)
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Mmkay! :laugh:
[Xperia Z5 General] korom42:
I'm interested in the S7 .. any Z5 vs S7 samples ?
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
Hey guys, could it be possible that the mighty 23mp of our z5 is in reality only 8mp upsampled to 23mp? No third-party app shows the full resolution like on older sensors of Xperia z1-z4.. And Sony won't give the "super" image processing algorithm to the Sony "open" device project!? Maybe the Devs from Sony just don't know how to hide the 8mp to 23mp techniques.. So they don't give it free to other Developers to make the poor z5 camera better? The details when zooming by 23mp shots are so washed out and muddy, I can't believe it's actually 23mp.. I guess because of that, Sony is hiding something.. Don't they? Why else they are acting so strange?
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Actually it is 25MP native. Is an article on the web about it. People just need to learn how to take photos and stop comparing competitions low ISO shots with 5s high ISO shots. And also that 23MP at 1:1 is practically 12MP x2, 2x zoom. Resize to competitions resolution and be amazed. :cool:
[Xperia Z5 General] Dpk1:
Here are a couple of random comparison pics clicked casually at samsung store.

Z5 manual 23 MP (4:3)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7n-BgxJio5vNjJKcnNnQ1VJcVE/view?usp=docslist_api

S7 12 MP (4:3)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7n-BgxJio5vN1NkcFh5RDc5Yzg/view?usp=docslist_api

Z5 manual 20 MP (16:9)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7n-BgxJio5vWkl3SDBnWV84bDA/view?usp=docslist_api

S7 9.1 MP (16:9)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7n-BgxJio5vWlhhaWw2ZXk2S0U/view?usp=docslist_api
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
can you please give me the link to the article ? Or show me a Professional competition of what you mean? I`m just disappointed at the quality from shots even with a tripod :( And no manual ISO or Scene change is possible in Sonys "manual" mode at 23mp.. . only at 8mp :( I hate these cuts
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Search at GSM Arena site for Z5 review. I believe the camera page section talks about it.

I agree about control though I'll do some more testing these days in good and low light. So far my Z1 at 20,7MP blows the S7 away. I got rock solid visual evidence of it in some posts in fairly fair comparisions as they give the S7 better condition. :cool:
[Xperia Z5 General] Thechiller86:
Okay, thank you dude! gonna search fir the article :good:

yep the modded Z1, I miss it :crying: Camera v4 was awesome with total Manuel camera control! More quality wasn`t possible :cool:

Edit: GSM Area is a good site to compare camera quality! Thanks a lot!
[Xperia Z5 General] mgolder:
I find it funny that the whole basis of his thread was using dxomark as the definers of what is and isn't 'the best'..... They are a for profit organisation, who license out their items to companies.

Don't license with them? Good luck getting your phone reviewed and even better luck getting it a very high score. You're not paying them so it is of no interest to them to test and report on your product.

Whole piece on Android Police (i think) about it.
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
This. Where is Nokia 950XL. Money talks!
[Xperia Z5 General] FYLin21:
Z5 looks cleaner and less processed in the centre of the image while S7 is oversharpened. However, the Z5's corners are quite blurred. While this varies between units, it makes the Z5 a poor choice for landscapes if you want uniform sharpness.

I don't care if it's because the lens is wider, the optics are still sub-par. The wide aperture isn't the problem either because the S7 has f1.7...

I do wonder if the S7 oversharpens to mask any lens blur, but even so, the Z5 lens is still poor and no amount of sharpening can fix that; sometimes you can see the corners lack contrast.
[Xperia Z5 General] frankm87:
What is worrying here is that DxOmark gives a top score to the S7 and even I (!) can see that S7 pictures seem suboptimal - and at the same time, DxOmark gives a roughly equilavent score to the Z5, and the problems with the Z5 pictures seem vastly different.

What kind of conclusion can you draw from this? It's difficult to make an opinion.

Is there a way to find pictures, say on Flickr, that have been shot with a specific phone? Does Flickr allow for 'EXIF search' or something similar?
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
"Corners are quite blurred" in areas that the S7 isn't even showing. The lens is so much wider. Crop out the areas that don't exist on the S7 image and look again. Everything that is in the S7 image is in focus and, as you say, much better processed by the Sony.
[Xperia Z5 General] Xeon:
Actually no you are mistaken and this is exactly why Apple is successful, because their whole ecosystem is very simple but let's not go off-topic.

People don't have time to learn, they are busy. If I wanna learn how to take a photo I'll get myself a professional camera. Do you think my sister or girlfriend or mom know what ISO and exposure is ? If SONY is really targeting professional photographers they would have unlocked the RAW compatibility... so they are targeting nobody honestly.

Their Superior Auto is flawed and needs work, deal with it.

I was having a dinner with my gf yesterday and go figure if the Z5 is better than the iPhone 6S camera ( this is the best I could get from the Z5P ) :

[IMG="6S"]http://s21.postimg.org/xf1qiwxqv/IMG_5168.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG="Z5P"]http://s27.postimg.org/fxakmfr03/DSC_0198.jpg[/IMG]

Just for the sake of credibility and at 100% ZOOM

Now tell me which one looks better ? and no my hands were not shaking it was dead on the table. I'm trying to be objective and provide a constructive comparison

Full size :

http://s21.postimg.org/lpxquy6s5/IMG_5168.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/dfytf673l/DSC_0198.jpg
[Xperia Z5 General] frankm87:
The Z5 chose ISO 500 and looks bad...

How dark was it in real life, with your own eyes? If the room wasn't really dark, the Z5 has a point.