yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] fallenczar:
Have you had a chance to check a UIQ Device???

i had extensively used one for a long time...

Suffices to say... i still miss it..the only reason i am on WM is because of certain apps that i have to use..

and look at the new nokia communicator...

it can do all of your pda functions and is based on the s60 platform.

No Offence...i dont think you understand the ZEN of the iphone...

its usage of the phone with your fingers...with gestures that you use everyday in your life...

how do you flip through an album....thats how coverflow works...

if you pull the ends of the rubberband it expands...and thats how you enlarge a photograph...

i recently had the (mis)fortune of using my sis wizard...(i have a uni)

i realized why the onsceen keyboard is soo crappy...

iphone might not do as many things as your ppc phone does...but whatever it does it does it far better than anything out there..

and just to clarify about the pda comment..

just look at the numbers of pda's sold vs the no of smartphones sold..

and you want to say that the reason ms is still hung up on a pda is because the roots of the wm platform are there then to me that would indicate that they have stagnated..

dont know about you but i always get a feeling that the phone part has just been tacked on to the pda part..

again going back to the phone functions...

have to tried sending a message to multiple recipient???

either you use a third party software or you end up writing the details of ALL your contacts..

in s60 the application takes you to to the phonebook and there are tickboxes in front of all the contacts....as simple as tick and send...

again if my memory serves me right you can search a phone no in your phonebook (i.e if you inputs someones no. it will show you there contact info)

and who says apple's phone does not have applications???

take a look at this

http://www.unboundmedicine.com/news_iphone.htm

granted it is web based..but if you have unlimeted web access with all iphones then whynot make your applications webbased???
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] GeoffM:
I love it when people try to compare apples (deliberate pun) aand oranges

the iPhone is market NOT to the professionals but to the ipod toy crowd it's not a computer! its an ipod with a phone - most forget that pda's are mini computers the fact that we added phone abilities just sweetn the deal (I still have my first CE Device and my jordana, and Axim i3x) carring a phone and a pda got to be a hassle and when the 6600 came I jump for joy (though I still had to get a i930) so I can still calculate IP's, analyze my networks, Remote to my servers and a large amount of other tasks that a iPhone simply (and by design) won't do those that buy (for the most part) pda's aren't worried on how many mp3's they can stuff in there storage, but what business they can get done
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] fallenczar:
why would you even want to edit the rom???

i'm pretty fimiliar with the wsod on s60/ngage and i can tell you that it has nothing to do with the "firmware" getting corrupted..it simply means that you do not have enough free space on your c drive..

a quick trip to the nokia center usually solves the problem...

the main problem was there was no way to "Hard Reset" your device from the "boot loader" which was introduced in symbian 7.0
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] lukeap69:
Why don't you get a UIQ device again? or a communicator?

I had 3 UIQ's before and lots of S60's but no communicator. And honestly I have no plans of getting one again.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] rostol:
You have GOT to be kidding me. Consider yourself lucky. I have owned SEVERAL s60 phones ... 6620,6670, 7610... and still have some of them Ngage, 6682. I have had crashes in every single one of them, i have had problems requiring removal of battery in every single one of them. I also own the first? touch-screen telephone a Nokia 7710 that had to be sent for reflash 3 times !! my 9300i shows strange error message boxes every other day and was reflashed once.

Every cellphone hangs, every cellphone has problems (ok maybe a Nokia 1100 is safe). As soon as you start installing things on them (dont get me started if you start usingthem as testbeds for your developments), and most not even that is needed, they start developing problems. Its unavoidable, thay are computers and are plagued by their errors; like mem leaks as no os garbage collection is perfect (it can only clean what has been marked as "safe" for collection), buffer under & overruns as not always you get the expected input and bounds checking is an imperfect thing, app interactions, chokes (app loop forever expecting unobtainable input), etc

Those are the reasons Apple has blocked 3rd party apps and Java. They can control what goes into the iphone an therefore extending its stability as much as possible. This is obviously good for a large percentage of users, but leaves tweakers and powerusers behind. Now that 3rd pty apps are being installed in some iphones some spectacular hangs ands BSODs (black rite?) are appearing.

That being said i think the iphone is an exellent piece of hardware, i don't share the "no buttons" paradigm as i think some things need tactile feedback imho. Its just not for everybody, its for the hip crowd that only uses the phone for calls, has less than 50 contacts, and likes having an ipod and phone all in one. (yes coverflow is great)
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] DaVince:
iPhone users are into fashion and beauty.

iPhone sucks in terms of capability, flexibility, versatility and power.

Everything iPhone can do can be done on PPC's.

but not everything PPC's can do can be done on an iPhone.

ok... iPhone does not suck.. it's just plain inferior.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] cybersush:
Why do people casemod their PCs into aquariums, alien figures etc.?

Someone thats makes his old VW Golf run faster than a Porsche 911 doesnt mean the guy actually wanted a Porsche under the christmastree, but all he got was this crappy ol' VW :)

Its all about the fun! Its all about that bored look on your girlfriends face, when you show her your new Today Screen!

This whole forum here is for people who love playing around with their gadgets, so let them play...

("if you pull the ends of the rubberband it expands...and thats how you enlarge a photograph..." - Why not? I just tap the zoom button...)
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] prd00:
Huh? Are you mocking us? We knew why it locked up, and we knew how to solve it. Saying we don't know about that simple problem simply means an insult. Sorry, you are facing device programmers here, that knows everything that goes inside your phone. We even make something to make your phone do something unthinkable before. It's not because we got problem, but because we CAN reprogram your phone, rewrite the software, customizing everything inside it. By limiting those items, it means limiting our creativity. And we don't like to be limited.

How about.... changing your ngage name into "mygage"? And remove that nokia default sms software to our home-build chat-like software? Then change the appearance, edit menu system, compress images, add some functionality? That is why we want to edit its firmware. AND I WON'T TAKE A TRIP INTO NOKIA CENTER. The only time I go into service center, is because I destroyed the hardware. I have never set a foot on Nokia center just to remove some file. If they can, why we can't?

Well, may be that's our difference. This forum called xda-developers, so you develop, not just use. And we can't develop anything with iPhone, and have to accept its limitation. As I said before, I don't like to be limited. Now, we can make iPhone out of our PPC. Can you make PPC out of iPhone?
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] defcomg:
Correction

My Ngage Rom Thingy was corrupted the nokia people told me so and they told me to fix it was gona cost me morethan a new ngage so i stuff dat n i got an imate sp3 den it went swimin nw i got a hp ipaq nw i love wm i wouldnt choose anyfin else
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] defcomg:
Porsché 911 Vs Vw Golf

I mean the only reason he modded his golf was because it was the cheaper oPtion Personally i hate vw golf where i live every 4th car is a damn golf n dey all modded and u wil only c a porche once in a while. I would choose a porsche any dAy. Burnout
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] TaxiarchisGR:
Apple has no experience in pda-phones, iPhone is the first step, only to think that the iPhone OS takes up 700 mb and every week there is an update it's enough to consider iPhone is a "beta" Apple phone. I don't think you must compare WM phones with Apple phone.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] fallenczar:
you must be joking...

Reprogram your phone....i think you mean add 3rd party software to your phone...playaround with the reg...change the pagepool size....

and just in case you don't know....all the roms that have been ever built are based on a released/beta rom

"make your phone do something unthinkable before...like what...add the touch interphase to it????" thats prob the only most original porting that has been done in years...

BTW...since you seem to know a lot about s60 i would assume that you know that all ngage games were hacked to run on non-ngage devices...

have you ever tried doing that with your pocket pc :)

i.e remove outlook and use another 3rd pary software to do sms????

just to give you an example of what happens when you remove the integral software...someone here tried to remove wmp from there ppc...and succeded :) in a couple of days time they realised that the ringtone function is linked to wmp and your phone does not ring if you have no wmp.

the point being you really cant mess around the "core" prog...at most you can hide them and use the 3rd party alternative...

which btw you can also do on all other platforms

you can do all that with s60

what about the unbound medicine application there for the iphone...hasn't it been "developed"..or the snes emulator
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] fallenczar:
the os does not take 700 mb...

ever heard of newton???
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] blues01:
I can't agree more to it, man :D
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] egzthunder1:
Of course it has. The pda was invented before the pda-phone. This was done out of the inconvenience of carrying two separate devices...

It is rather simple, not everyone can fork $30-$40 per month for internet service, so if you do not have internet, then you are stuck with a shinny, unupgradeable piece of hardware.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] pasan:
How can you say that the iPhone is not a computer? Because it doesn't have most functions a PPC has? With three ARM processors in the iPhone you'll see it's more powerful than the best HTC has come out with. It's an "ipod with a phone" because they chose it to be that way, in the same way an Xbox or PS3 are gaming consoles.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] fallenczar:
What i am trying to say is that even though the pda's are dead M$ has failed to move on...instead of the phone features being tightly incorporated in the OS,they are still add on

I AM NOT SAYING THAT THE IPHONE IS "THE SAVIOUR OF MANKIND"

all i am saying that it truly is revolutionary...why??? because it has make all the other companies sit up and take notice...look at nokia...the had to come up with the ovi thing...
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] gogol:
iPhone just a plain sucks.

iPhone cannot send MMS ... WM can

iPhone cannot forward SMS to multiple recepients ... WM can

iPhone cannot do copy and paste of text ... WM can

iPhone cannot replace the battery ... WM can

iPhone web browser cant see Flash movie ... WM can

iPhone cannot add 3rd application by default ... WM can

iPhone does not have fast 3G connection ... WM have

iPhone does not have Java ... WM have

iPhone cannot be used as modem (internet sharing/thethering) ... WM can

iPhone bluetooth sucks! ... WM does not sucks

iPhone cannot use A2DP ... WM can

iPhone does not have voice dialing ... WM have

iPhone cannot record video ... WM can

... List goes on ...

Can I install and run navigation software on iPhone? ...

Can I ...

You call this iPhone revolutionary? ... Yeah, right !

Duh ...
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] fallenczar:
the symbian platform (which you consider to be inferior to wm) can do all this and do it better....so do you mean it is better then wm...

GO FIGURE GENIUS...
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] Rudegar:
".instead of the phone features being tightly incorporated in the OS,they are still add on"

ms's smartphone line seem to be more integrated but then they dont have touchscreen and seem more like they are trying to be like symbian then pda phones

imho then iphone was not that ambitious as when it came to new mobile techs which may not have been that big in usa but are very big in eu and asia

but then apple have always been a bit more about concept
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] gogol:
Hei fallenczar,

Please open a new thread with title "Symbian OS vs Windows Mobile" ...

Dont hijack this thread. It is about "iPhone" ...

I assume you understand quite clearly.

Or is it difficult for you???
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] Underwaterdub:
Cou cannot compare the one iPhone to all the WM6 devices... It's the first Version of iPhone and therefore Apple developed a lot of unique stuff that makes the handling of the phone a lot easier than all the WM6 devices.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] samy.3660:
Whatever iphone does, it does it.

It would be foolish to compare the specs of WM with iphone,

Iphone was never meant for all this things which you stated.

Iphone is revolutionary in its GUI and concept which will be copied by various OEM's for near future.

Iphone can really browse WEB in its original state, WM Cant.

Iphone can play better music, WM cant.

Iphone have a real touch interface, WM dont.

Iphone works when we need it to work, unlike WM.

Iphone is good looking, WM is not.

Iphone is functional with limited features, WM lags with unlimited feature.

AND Behold! this is the first version of Iphone, don't you wanna see more!!!

Iphone is Made to be Iphone and not computer.

This is from user of wizard and hermes.

AHA!!
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] egzthunder1:
What part of "stick to discussing wm vs iphone" did you not get in my last post? Again, we are not talking about Symbian OS being better than Smartphones, or Symbian OS being better than pda phones (or the other way around for that matter). We are talking about iphone vs pda-phones. That's about it.

If you run out of argument regarding the iphone, then let's call it quits. If you do not have an argument on how to defend your side (which in this case is the iPhone and NOT the Symbian phones), then just admit it. No one is going to think you are stupid or anything like that if you argue with valid points. But if you start bringing outside stuff into the conversation, then this whole thread becomes pointless.

Just to give you a quick example,

...if you think that the iphone is good, then you should see how stable and reliable my tablet pc is. It is sleek, it has the ZEN that it looks like a notebook, just like a notebook would be like in real life, and it doesn't weight as much as a laptop, and many of them can be used as phones too because of built-in gsm capabilities...

I am not trying to mock you, but do you see how ridiculous it looks when you start comparing what we are talking about with something completely different?

I know you probably have good points and reasons as to why the iphone is better than the pda-phones, and I am interested in reading about them (that is why I keep on writing in this thread), but I want to read just those and I want to see if you can defend those points. We can defend our pda-phones easily, but so far, you have gone around in circles talking about everything under the sun... except for the main thing that you started talking about.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] Underwaterdub:
I totally agree....

Apple again managed to release a superior product that brings up more innovations than WM6 Devices did in the last 2 years..

Don't understand me wrong. I like my artemis. But I also liked my Windows Notebook until I bought my first Mac. ;-)
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] fallenczar:
@gogol

and @egzthunder1

Don't get me wrong..for a moment i thought we were mature adults who could grab an abstract concept...but apparently you still need to be spoon fed...

here is the deal...

it is not what you can or can not do, it is how easily you can do it...

Think about it.

Have a Nice Day.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] egzthunder1:
@ Sammy

Did you read gogol's post?? Aside from the sarcastic tone that he might have given to the whole thing, ALL of the features he listed are things that most regular mobile phones out there can do today. If the iPhone was not meant to do any of those things (also known as behaving as a phone) like you say, then, what was it meant for? Let's go over your points one by one:

1. Iphone can really browse WEB in its original state, WM Cant.

Have you ever used Pocket Internet Explorer, Opera Mini, Minimo, (deepfish if you got to be beta tester), etc, etc? They are full fledged internet browsers that will render any page, whether it was meant for mobile devices or for computers. You want to talk about a true internet experience in your phone, then I dare you to go to any website that has a flash intro, or better yet that it has java applets.

2. Iphone can play better music, WM cant.

What does this even mean?? You can play different sound file types, at any desired bitrate that your heart pleases. And, you are not stuck with only one player, since you have a wide variety of players to choose from.

3. Iphone have a real touch interface, WM dont.

Did you think before writing this?? Any device with a touch screen is called a touch screen device... and yes, you can manipulate a pda with your fingers seamlessly without using a stylus, I know I do because I lost mine (4 times already) :)

4. Iphone works when we need it to work, unlike WM.

Yes, the wm will crash every now and then. But you know what? Every time you reset the phone, you clear the junk that is in the page pool, old trash files get deleted, etc. So your devices will wake up renewed. It is called a power cycle and every device should have that every so often.

But, I will give you this one since I still have not heard of too many people complaining about their iphones crashing often.

5. Iphone is good looking, WM is not.

Use your iphone for a dew months and you will start seeing things in your casing, just like every cell phone user in existence. Dings, scratches, dirt, sweat stains (particularly on your screen).

You cannot say whether a device is better because it looks new and shinny on the outside, because then someone, like me, will come and tell you that by blue angel is the best looking phone. You don't have an argument because that goes on taste, and not what we are talking about in this thread. Besides, have you seen the HTC Elf (or Touch, whatever you want to call it)? It is sleek as hell! (and I dare you to make me think otherwise).

6. Iphone is functional with limited features, WM lags with unlimited feature.

You are going to have to explain this one because I honestly have no clue what you are talking about.

You see, this is a good argument! You have made points defending your iphone and I have tried to counter your arguments, but you never went off subject. I did not agree with anything you wrote (except with no. 4), but all in all good post.

Nice talking to you Sammy :)
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] fallenczar:
i am no expert in IT...but i wonder how many times google "rejuvinates" its servers...i guess it must me every couple of minutes...

i think my phone wants a power cycle, be back in a minute folks.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] egzthunder1:
It is not spoon feeding anyone. All I am asking of you is that if you have valid points regarding the iphone, make them using the iphone and not scapegoats (like in this case the Symbian).

Let me just put it this way (just to tell you that I am not hung up on anything because of brand or anything),

If Sun Microsystems tomorrow reveals something revolutionary in the same lines as the iPhone (something that was never done) and it was funtional enough, I would shift my view and say that this device would be the most amazing piece of hw and sw combination ever made. Hell, even if Apple did something like that with the upcoming generations of iPhones, I would change my views. But for the time being, this is not the case.

Again, if you have valid arguments (meaning that you can take an iphone and a pda-phone head to head and compare pros and cos), then, bring it on!

Otherwise, don't bother because so far, I do not think you have even made an attempt to make a valid point. Like I said before, you are just going around the subject...

Put your ideas together and I will see your next post.

Until then, Have a Nice Day :)
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] egzthunder1:
I thought I was having a more mature conversation than this, but rather obviously, you either don't understand English or I am arguing with a kid. read my last post as I will not repeat myself again...

stay on subject!!!!!
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] ytsejam_:
let's just leave the topic alone.. i think this will lead nowhere..

it's a battle of pride and a sense of self preference..

if a person likes an iphone.. fine - he can go to an iphone forum or whereever it is that iphone is praised like a god and share all his positive opinions

if he likes a nokia - he can do the same..

but this site is dedicated to BUILDING AND DEVELOPING WINDOWS MOBILE APPLICATONS and these topics should not be any harder to conclude..

if you like a device.. don't go into another device's forum and brag about it.. for surely you'll get pretty nasty and (for you) negative responses.

surely you won't see any XDA-DEV or PPC-forum members going to Nokia or iphone sites/forums and bash em all the shortcommings of their device and superiority of ours..

asuming you know how to read reviews.. all of those reviews of the iphone agrees to our statement that it is just a good piece of hardware and a robust Interface and nothing more. it is not a smartphone (or pda phone) but a feature phone (a phone with features - including touchscreen).

if you don't like that, bring your case over to the editors of these famous mobile device and gadget review magazines and websites. maybe you should start flaming mobile-review.com and phonescoop.com for the last i've read, they've been criticizing the iphone's limited "features" and inability.

just have a little respect.. it's our bandwidth you are wasting here..
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] egzthunder1:
Thanks for that man! Very well said.

And with this post I officially conclude my argument.

Later...

LONG LIVE XDA-DEVS!
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] fallenczar:
just two things to say to you

a)what i wrote was in respose to the "justification" you gave for why WM keeps crashing...Heck man do you ever read what you write????

b)i don't give a @#!* if you keep repeating yourself or you choose not to.

Look buddy...my aim was not to hurt your sensibilities, i just wanted to show you the mirror, and apparently what you see in it is ugly.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] stefankrijgsman:
you now what would be perfect ,

a dualbood,

my prophet with wm5 and iphone ...

if you want to be cool you use the iphone look . if you want to use you pda you use wm5 (or 6)

.that would be prefect .