yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
I thought he was a bit heavy handed with the criticism. Trading quality for speedy processing is a fair trade-off, IMHO. At least there are 2 updates incoming - the camera software and Marshmallow - though I'm guessing they'll be minor improvements in terms of performance. I thought the Z5 should have scored a 8 or 9, but that's the Verge.

On the other hand, over at Android Authority, they refuse to use the default 8 MP SA mode because it would be "an unfair advantage" for the Z5. I don't even...!

:rolleyes:
[Xperia Z5 General] cklow01:
Manual 8mp
[Xperia Z5 General] lagittaja:
Indeed. Might as well say you need to disable the OIS of *insert phone model here* because that would be an unfair advantage for... Or G4's laser focus and spectrum sensor.

What a load of rubbish.
[Xperia Z5 General] pressytcn:
I don't know if this has been said already

But the camera only packs an 8.3 megapixel sensor

You can test this using 3rd party cameras like fv5 and A better camera or using an app called hardware info on the z1 z2 and z3 they all show 20.7 but on the z5 it shows 8.3 so maybe sony ran out of sensors or the did some serious Falls advitising
[Xperia Z5 General] lagittaja:
Uhm. No. Shoo, go away troll.
[Xperia Z5 General] pressytcn:
I'm not trolling check it out for your self i can even supply some screens

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqejbhc6h5klyev/Screenshot_2015-10-15-14-11-44.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vfr53vl10s8mckk/Screenshot_2015-10-19-03-06-13.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/586ki2rwyccp7gm/Screenshot_2015-10-19-03-05-40.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/586ki2rwyccp7gm/Screenshot_2015-10-19-03-05-40.png?dl=0
[Xperia Z5 General] luigi0824:
Is it possible to capture raw images?
[Xperia Z5 General] pressytcn:
I don't know last time i did that with a android was with the htc incredible s and a costum Rom
[Xperia Z5 General] TheEndHK:
https://www.sendspace.com/filegroup/gzovCQRZ52kEbfJ7jfqDGw

I've shot one more Z1c and S6 sample, this time better indoor. They both at exactly same ISO and shutter speed good for comparison. S6 is on auto 16MP whilst Z1c Manual 8MP.
[Xperia Z5 General] monx®:
Sony is protecting their exclusive camera from 3rd party apps. Locked to 8.3 MP unless using their own software. :cool:
[Xperia Z5 General] pressytcn:
That's strange why would they do that they never did that with my 2 other phones the z1 and z3 i gues i'm gonna wait for a root and a costum Rom then :(
[Xperia Z5 General] chaosking121:
Has it been confirmed yet that unlocking the bootloader doesn't mess with the camera processing? I saw some talk about this on the Z5c forums, but there were too few people with unlocked bootloaders to confirm.
[Xperia Z5 General] dehnhaide:
Meh!

Except for about 30% of the frame - specifically the left and right extreme sides - where the picture is a piss in the wind! :( Same old story, same old Sony "feature" I've seen from the very beginning. Why add 24mm wide aperture when you're not able to master it (the lens or the processing behind just suck)? :(
[Xperia Z5 General] lamenramen:
I think the Z5 camera takes really, really poor quality pictures. I mean, not even in the same league as the S6 or G4. What am I unable to see or appreciate?
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
It's interesting that detail levels are very similar, despite the disparity on resolution. Colours are brighter on the Galaxy. and the shot is overall more vibrant. The resolution drop does make things look a bit softer on the Z1, the more you zoom in and there's still more grain to the image, generally.

What are your thoughts?

(Personally, I would've taken it out of SA for an indoor shot like this as Manual seems to do a much better job in artificial light, for whatever reason.)
[Xperia Z5 General] TheEndHK:
I was wrong, it should be 8MP manual. SA too sensitive to turn on sport mode to push up ISO and things starting get worse, if you got a total steady hand SA result is also not bad.

Details are near but I've tried to resize 16MP to 8MP and yet it still offers better details. Z1c was ruined by the suck Sony sharpen/denoise algorithm and washed out detail. If Sony allow us to shoot RAW, I think Z1c could do a better job and closer to S6.

S6 is better bcoz post-processing methods real good plus noticeably better focus on whole image where Z1c could only focus in the center in this case. I'll say Z1c got most accurate exposure and color though S6 result is more eye caught(brighter, high saturated, warm tone) but Z1c much more closer to actual scene and this is where I like my Z1c.
[Xperia Z5 General] jbr017039:
I've seen the pictures on other sites and that's one of my major concerns when selecting between Z5 and Note5. Seems that all the photos are taken in Automatic mode rather that Manual mode, as it is not mentioned in the article (and I think this is the only way to make a fair comparison, since Sony provides much fewer shooting parameters to modify than Samsung in their manual modes).

Back to Xperia Z1, the Automatic Mode tend to select a much higher ISO than other phones in same circumstance, and that have never changed all the way to Z5. Actually, the picture full of noise didn't surprise me.

If you are looking for a phone with camera that is automatic and shoots good photo, get a Note 5.
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
I've re-evaluated Superior Auto. Seriously, I'm more and more impressed by it.

I've just taken more night shots (see the end of this album - https://www.flickr.com/gp/136945683@N06/EA2K6s) using Superior Auto and,... well, see for yourself. I even persuaded it to spool up Night Mode at 20mp. Finally.

Here's the thing: I think that reviewers have been slapdash with how SA works. They've pulled the camera out and snapped before waiting for a mode icon to appear at the bottom of the screen, especially on night scenes. I simply cant think why they're not getting pictures like,...

https://flic.kr/p/z3QTVz

https://flic.kr/p/zXqpNf

https://flic.kr/p/zYGjW9

or

https://flic.kr/p/z3QTcR

With the exception of the penultimate in that list, I've done nothing more than use Superior Auto, wait for the icon, steady my hands and slowly depress the button. Nothing.

As always, check the descriptions at the bottom of each. I can't tell you how pleased I am with those shots!
[Xperia Z5 General] schecter7:
The confusion started when everyone started calling 'night scenes' low-light shots. Low-light means well, low light - you need high ISO. But the night scene means night shots with bright signs, buildings, etc - you need low to medium ISO. So when someone pulls out the phone & starts the camera, it's very likely to point towards the ground. Camera detects it as 'low-light', which is correct. Then you point it towards the scene. If it still says low-light, the user has to wait. It'll show a runner icon indicating that camera is trying to switch to the right mode. It'll ultimately switch to night scene mode & then you can shoot. Or you could launch the camera by pointing it towards the scene in the first place, then it'd start with night scene mode right off the bat.
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rakFqqyMj20

Rough translation: Night portrait = 1/4 sec exposure time, Night scene = 1/2 sec exposure time. I think he was quite impressed by the level of detail. He preferred Night portrait over Night scene, as 1/2 sec exposure was hard to hold still. But those Night scene pics looked good.

So far, no English review makes mention of this stuff. Sony seems to have chosen to limit exposure time to prevent blurring (in SA), I'm guessing. Or as Tim mentioned, people are not waiting long enough for SA to switch over to Night scene.

Oh, I was looking at the Android Authority review of the Z5c. My initial impression is that they had a hard time steadying the camera, and that's why the photos look "washed out" (as they claimed). What I think was happening was the Z5 detected motion and shortened the exposure time to prevent blurring, leaving the photos under-exposed and lacking of detail. Conversely, in the Verge review, the guy knew how to handle the Z5, and could take some good pics.

I think that would explain why some reviews highly praise the camera, while others think it's so-so. The Z5 tries to keep photos from blurring, so holding the camera stable will capture pics with greater detail. It would also explain why SA seems to act strangely, varying the exposure time from pic to pic, even in fairly good light conditions. Anyway, that's my current theory. ;)
[Xperia Z5 General] dehnhaide:
Not buying it...

Hi [MENTION=5126759]Timaustin2000[/MENTION],

While I understand your feelings about the new toy and how psychology works in trying to convince yourself you've made the right decision in purchasing the Z5, "I simply cant think why" you are so "pleased I am with those shots!" when they are utterly rubbish?!!!

The gsmarena.com review of Z5, released yesterday at http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_z5-review-1326p8.php has pointed out exactly what your proposed sample exemplify! The night shots are just awful: noise level is out of the chart while the already branded "SONY mushiness" is at its best!

Actually the last picture of your sampled ones is pitiful at best: look at the chronic lack of details on the fence, on the car license plate, on the house brick walls and the foliage.

The other shots just complement the overall poor low light performing of Z5 even in situations where there is direct & strong lighting (see the SPAR shop billboard and the details on the rocky wall), the guy talking on the phone is all an amorphous messed silhouette, etc.

I think your are "over-impressed" just because you lack a comparison. A G4 in the same situations would simply set the whole story straight and cast aside any doubts about the pitiful Z5 performance.

I am not sure what could save the Z5 as we speak. I hoped that given the increasing number of reviews coming in things will change for the better. Unfortunately situation hasn't changed at all: in good lighting situations the Z5 continues to be decent to pretty good (still keeping the same average quality for extreme image borders) but in low light it's a "walking mess" and pictures everywhere are proving it. :crying:
[Xperia Z5 General] monx®:
Z5 is not just about camera. Duh.
[Xperia Z5 General] King p1n:
I agree there's a lot of excusing sonys poor software in here.
[Xperia Z5 General] dehnhaide:
Excellent hint! But camera issues is what we discuss here.
[Xperia Z5 General] doministry:
[MENTION=5366632]King p1n[/MENTION]

Probably, but still less than amount of bashers just waiting for destruction :)

Anyway! I am not going to blindly defend anything.

I've seen samples from MANY places.

What is clear, the results vary.

Depending on many many reasons.

Some of the samples here - like those manual 8mpx night shots - are great. Some are worse.

I have to examine GSMArena and Eprice samples closer.

But what I'v learned - don't take all the reviews 100% serious. Not all deserve that unless they're made by really conscious people. I prefer DXOmark over whining people on YouTube...

I will repeat again! I have a Z2. I've read alot about it.

Some websites showed really bad sample photos.

But I have it for over 1,5 years and went through many updates. I made like 5000 shots with it.

And I KNOW from my experience it can do great things, things I never found on any review.

And that's what really matters, at least for me.

I think Z5 has or will have a great Cam.

I will find out myself, probably soon.

If it's cr..p I'll be first to sell it...
[Xperia Z5 General] Adrift98:
In the review by Gary Sims of the Z5 Compact that Android Authority did, he talked about how he was disappointed with the camera. I mentioned Tim Austin's comments in the Android Authority flagship shootout, but Sims mentioned that he had tested with both 23mp and 8mp modes in the following review:

androidauthority.com/sony-xperia-z5-compact-review-649223/

I'm curious, what would be the reasons for the poor quality of his 8mp night pictures in that review?
[Xperia Z5 General] King p1n:
[YOUTUBE]aMINOJi7hD8[/YOUTUBE]

Low light = Purple and grain in video recording its so evident.

Look at the video when they're in the lift, Z5 looks the worst.
[Xperia Z5 General] doministry:
Ok so here we go, Night/Low light samples from GSMArena Z5 versus G4

G4 by doministry, on Flickr

Z5 by doministry, on Flickr

That would be it about "smashing" the competition, like Z5.

Again now daylight.

G4_2 by doministry, on Flickr

Z5_2 by doministry, on Flickr

This is not TOTALLY fair because G4 had better daylight and more light in the dusk shot.

But still, IS IT SMASHING Z5?

For my eyes - he.l no!!!

Yes Z5 may be a bit more "fuzzy" on edges.

BUT THE DETAIL IS SIMILAR on both phones in both scenes!!!

You may prefer any of them - that's Fine! - but there is definitaley no big difference!

I think they're close.

And G4 also is softening images on edges.

Look also here and see, again, all the 3 phones are quite close here in performance.

http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=3&idPhone1=7534&idPhone2=6901&idPhone3=7079

And the video:

http://www.gsmarena.com/vidcmp.php3?idType=3&idPhone1=7534&idPhone2=6901&idPhone3=7467
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
"As you can see in good daylight the camera works well and there is little to choose between the 23MP and 8MP images (other than the resolution). However some pictures seem dull and washed out. In low light situations the camera tries very hard to produce a good shot, however the noise levels can be very high, even for indoor shots."

The reviewer probably had trouble keeping the camera steady or there was something else wrong. No other review had the "wash out" problem. As I said in an earlier message, that isn't noise - that's from a short exposure time, probably to minimize blurring. Very different than the Verge review, where the reviewer had no such problems.

domininsty, IMHO, the G4 photos look better. But it's the same old story - the Z5 is much farther zoomed out and the 23 MP mode is noisier. At the same zoom level, the Z5's level of detail should be slightly higher. Also, looking at the bus, it's clear that Night scene didn't kick in.

---------- Post added at 10:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------

In 4K, the Z5 is going to lose - software stabilization vs. OIS. In 1080p, Z5 is going to win by a country mile.
[Xperia Z5 General] King p1n:
That doesnt explain the Z5 turning the whole low light scene purple.

I wasn't even thinking about the OIS vs Sonys stabilisation, the glaring issue when quickly looking at the video was the elevator scene.
[Xperia Z5 General] xerxess:
hmmm i didnt believe until i had try it first..

sorry i didnt mean to doubt your skill or anything, just to proof for my self "trying is the best way to know a thing"

why that foto didnt have exif data?

and you didnt tell what setting do you use, manual or auto?

wait if i didnt wrong, that comparison is when software is pre release right? hmmm
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
I remember seeing the purple tinge in the extreme low light test at the IFA. It seems the Z5 has more natural colours in most occasions, but there are edge cases where it's off. They'd need to re-test in 1080p to see.
[Xperia Z5 General] doministry:
So very interesting results:

http://www.androidauthority.com/blind-camera-shootout-winner-650299/

Again no shame for Z5. Good to read all of it.

In same cases Z5 could win without oversampling.

Does it refer to the things you were talking about [MENTION=5126759]Timaustin2000[/MENTION]?

But what's funniest? LGG4 was the worst according to 8000 readers ;)

iPhone the best - completely off the website's marks.

That says ALOT.
[Xperia Z5 General] csabyUK:
it really is a disappointment. they added a wider lens wich make the capture way convexe! another thing is that I don't really belive that the camera has a resolution of real 23MP . I think it is a 5MP sensor that is software tweaked to "phisycally" output 23. it will NEVER equal the APCS size quality not because of optics but simply sensor size. just cranking up the megapixel count by software without having a leap in sensor in LRD (LIGHT RECIEVING DIODE) IS a stupid game. I don't need a fish eye, but a good looking picture. comparing with the Z2, Z5 is a no-no-no :(
[Xperia Z5 General] snoopygum:
Do you have any proof that it's really "a 5MP sensor that is software tweaked to "phisycally" output 23"?
[Xperia Z5 General] csabyUK:
of course I don't have a proof. but when I compare it to xperia U(5MP) and zoom all the way in, it looks worse. even the front camera is bad. I'm holding both z2 and z5 on front facing camera and z2 it is way sharper than z5. a bit noisier too but way better quality. if I could take apart literally the z5 sensor wich is anyway bigger than other phone's sensor(is it?), put it under a microscope and count the pixels, I think I would be shocked how much less than 23.000.000 there are in there.... and let's be honest for a second ... why 23MP and not more ? I'm afraid that the answer is something like : " in the previous phones with the 20MP sensor, it wouldn't be possible a 16/9 AR photo at 20MP. so we cranked up to 23. so now you have 23mp at (4:3), and 20mp at (16/9) AR pictures."

oh and don't ask me again if I copyed those quotes from anywhere. I don't need to . it is pretty obvious ... ;)
[Xperia Z5 General] King p1n:
Lol your quite delusional if you think its a 5mp camera on the back lmao:eek:

But even if it was then then the pixel size would mean it would be superior to other phones on the market in low light.
[Xperia Z5 General] Adrift98:
:confused: That seems highly, highly unlikely.
[Xperia Z5 General] csabyUK:
"To prevent spam on the XDA forums, ALL new users prevented from posting outside links in their messages. After approximately 10 posts, you will be able to post outside links. Thank you for understanding!" (so no Screenshot showing settings for 23 and 20mp resolutions... :crying:) the 50*C it is the CpuTemp app so it is not cool . but don't want to be off topic. the ideea is that I'm owerall disapointed with this phone. at least hope to root it and have a nice custom rom with no bad tweaks on botom speaker and cameras....

:rolleyes:
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
Good gawd that was an awful blind test. I heard the Apple sites caught wind of the poll and voted for camera C. Note 5 looked to be the winner. I was surprised that the G4 didn't do better, but people say it's better in manual mode. I hope they learn to use the Z5 before the next (not-so-)blind test.

:cyclops:
[Xperia Z5 General] doministry:
Really, please. Think twice before you post such bullcr.p. Read more or post less.

Z5 actually has a 25mpx sensor. Just use Google search, it's your friend.

---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

Of course they voted for C :)
[Xperia Z5 General] lagittaja:
The Exmor RS sensor is the Sony IMX300. It's actually a 25MP (5984x4140) multi-aspect sensor.

The 4:3 mode (23MP) utilizes the full height (4140) of the sensor. Hence 5520x4140 pixels.

The 16:9 mode (20MP) utilizes the full width (5984) of the sensor. Hence 5984x3366 pixels.

Go ahead, put it under a microscope and start counting. Have fun!

I guess we'll hear from you again in a couple of weeks assuming you keep at it 24/7.
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
Ummm... please read through the thread. We've already discussed this. Use the default 8 MP mode. It combines the pixels, so the sensor matches more closely to the optical resolution. The 23/20 MP mode is better under bright, daylight conditions.
[Xperia Z5 General] King p1n:
I don't think shooting in 1080p will make a difference. The purple tinge can be seen in some low light photos and if I recall it can be seen on some Z3 low light photos.

Not sure whether it's sonys lens that causes I dunno but its not good that sony brags about low light and in that scene it looked the worst of the bunch
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
IMHO, that's making a mountain out of a molehill. Every phone is going to have rough spots under certain kinds of lighting and light conditions. For example, I've seen a few pics where the G4 had a yellow tint that other phones did not. "ZOMG! The G4 is garbage!" LOL! I personally haven't read one review that said the colour accuracy was bad on the Z5 - quite the opposite.

I mean we're talking about small, fairly low-end sensors in all these phones. There are bound to be some weak spots. Like comparing night photos of the Z5, G4, S6, etc., we're actually talking about very minor differences. Sure, for a serious photographer, it's a bigger deal, but it's like talking about which bicycle is the fastest in a world of cars. Take a look at night pics, say, on the Sony RX100 IV. Sorry, none of the so-called "good" smartphone cameras come anywhere close. You can tell the difference in quality without pixel peeping or needing to be a professional.

That said, from the limited reviews, low light seems to be comparable to the S6 and G4 when using Night scene. Need to see more tests and info before it's clear how the Z5 performs in low light.
[Xperia Z5 General] Fishboy_real:
Idiot's guide to getting good photos with the z5?

I just got my Z5 here in Chile (via Clove) and thankfully I don't seem to have the LHS problem with the lens. However, the low light/indoor shots are frankly pish (auto and manual) and are easily beaten by my Note 3 (which also has its issues with low light shots).

Is there any chance of getting a idiot's guide to getting the most out of the camera? There are some great shots being posted here (e.g. by [MENTION=5126759]Timaustin2000[/MENTION]) and I'd quite like to be able to replicate them.

Cheers in advance
[Xperia Z5 General] doministry:
http://www.androidcentral.com/sony-...feature&utm_campaign=navigation&utm_source=ac

Android Central quickly about the camera.
[Xperia Z5 General] King p1n:
Anyone got one and can compare the Front Camera to say the S6/Note 5 or the iPhone?
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
That's around the level I'm getting from it too.

But y'know, they're right after all: low light is rubbish on this thing. Look at this,.... https://flic.kr/p/zTrgP7

No,.... wait,.... that's a Galaxy S6 shot.

I've been looking at a fair few S6 samples on Flickr and I do wonder just how idealised peoples views are of the night capabilities of Sammy's camera and Sony's competition in general. There are a couple of shots like https://flic.kr/p/yz6NTA where I agree entirely: the z5 shot of that would not have been as good. But many others where I'm confident the z5 would do equally well, if not better. https://flic.kr/p/yZivVT for example - a shot with far more light in it than any I've taken but showing a distinct lack of definition. Also convinced I could do better than both https://flic.kr/p/zjX1qu and https://flic.kr/p/yWLDbd

Realistically, the Z5 doesn't have quite as good a night-time capability as the Samsung. I'm okay with that: objectively, it just doesn't. Yet. But I do wonder if some people are getting a teeny bit carried away with their criticism.