yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
8MP shots are as packed with detail as any 8MP shots I've ever seen. Putting aside the resolution drop, the amount of detail you're getting is extremely good, even when compared to full res.

In low light, shoot at 8MP: it removes much of the grain and the results are cleaner. You will still get more fine detail at 20mp (or 23mp, if you go 4:3, which I don't) but the image will have more errors and noise in low light. The super-sampling that the camera does to take it down to 8MP sorts a lot of that out.

---------- Post added at 09:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 AM ----------

I agree that we're looking at beta software, here. Definitely. There are too many edge errors if you zoom in an pixel peep. That makes things seem a tiny bit soft, at times. I think Sony are still working on the final software and that, as happened with the Z and Z1 before it, they'll sort a lot of that out when that's released - I'm expecting it next month. Currently, the processing errors make it look a bit rough and messy. I have complete confidence that this will be fixed.

That said, I wouldn't call it "Bad". Too strong a term. On the contrary, I think the results show good dynamic range, very good colour reproduction and extremely high levels of detail. The depth of field and focus mean that things are shallow on Macro shots: you get the bit you focus on nice and clear but go further or nearer by a Centimetre or two and it drops them into Bokeh. That's just a choice that Sony has taken.

Low light could be much cleaner and it needs polish but, as I said above, if you're upgrading from a Z1, this is the superior camera. If you're coming in from the S6, which has had months of software updates to improve their camera, you're going see the errors more.

---------- Post added at 09:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 AM ----------

That's a pre-production device in poor lighting. I have not seen anything like that on mine. Did you look at my Flickr? Scroll up.
[Xperia Z5 General] King p1n:
Z5 vs G4 vs iPhone

http://www.ringhk.com/news2.php?id=11656
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
That's a very frustrating comparison as the lens on the Z5 puts it at an immediate disadvantage. Because the lens essentially zooms out the image hitting the sensor, if you try to pick out the same details and zoom in, you're essentially looking at a far higher crop than the other two. On the surface, this makes it look like the Z5 is terrible, if you're searching out individual detail, but it's entirely the fault of the person taking the shot: they have not framed the shots identically.

For a true comparison of detail, you need to move each camera so that the frame on the screen is identical.

That said, a quick whiz through Translate tells me that the site actually concluded that the Z5 was the winner. So maybe they took that into consideration.
[Xperia Z5 General] Wave__:
Your shot with the Z5 looks really great ^^
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
Thanks :) I'll be adding more soon. The camera is very good - not a vast step up from the S6 but I'd put it ahead of the G4. If Sony can update the processing for low light then it'll truly earn that DxoMark score.
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
I have uploaded some more 8mp images taken today. Considering the resolution, they're pretty impressive. Indeed, I'm wondering whether I should just keep it in 8MP from now on - the drop in resolution is generally compensated for by cleaner edge sharpness and less noise. Here's the album so far. https://www.flickr.com/gp/136945683@N06/r7W2qz As before, check the description.
[Xperia Z5 General] TordFuglstad:
I just purchased the Z5 and also own the Z3. At the store I did some quick testing of both cameras in superior auto mode. In the shop it was artificial and pretty dim lighting. After a few shots it was clear that the Z5 outperforms the Z3 easily. I actually saw this after the first photo.

I will try to take some more comparison photos between the two in the next days. I'll also take some shots with the Z5 and edit them on the phone to show you how good you can get the photos just by using the phone.
[Xperia Z5 General] King p1n:
More smudge

http://www.dinside.no/934903/sony-xperia-z5
[Xperia Z5 General] veletron:
Yep, Z5 looks god awful in those pics. This is down to poor software will Sony never learn? Im convinced they want to drown their mobile division.
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
Typical hatchet job. Didn't correct the perspective, then did a 1:1 comparison with the Z5 picture effectively zoomed in. Just glad not every review is like that.

:rolleyes:

Even after the corrected perspective, there should be 1 1/4 pixels on the Z5 to each pixel on the G4 (if comparing 20 MP wide-screen mode vs. G4's 16 MP). Can't do pixel peeping if the each pixel doesn't even represent the same thing. Sigh.

:eek:
[Xperia Z5 General] veletron:
That does not account for the massive difference in image quality shown here. The difference is far far in excess of what a 20% difference in pixels could cause.
[Xperia Z5 General] dehnhaide:
G4 just turns the poor Z5 into some magic mop! :))
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
Whoever not?! Cropping to the same position will make a huge difference when you're dealing with smaller individual pixels!

Joe_dude is correct; you can't compare apples with oranges - adjust the field of view to be identical on both and re-try it then. This site clearly did not do so. DxOmark do.

The Z5 camera needs some software tweaking, sure, but you'd be insane to think it's THAT bad! I own one; It bloody well isn't!!

I have linked to my own pictures (above) as evidence of this.
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
Yes, that may be true, particularly in low-light scenery pics, as some have mentioned. But at least start from an equal comparison. Over 14% optical size difference + 20% pixel reduction is a huge amount of resolution to make up for a 1:1 comparison!

:(
[Xperia Z5 General] dehnhaide:
[MENTION=355403]joe_dude[/MENTION] you've turned delusional already dear buddy! :)))

There is still hope for your conspiracy ridden world of smartphone photography... But you have to give it up completely. You're 'technical nonsense' is so profound that it no subtitles could possibly explain it to anyone around!
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
Entirely correct. If Joe's maths is correct, we're looking at a 34% difference in per-pixel resolution. Sure, it doesn't explain away all of the edge-rendering errors but if the software is working with a third less data is it any wonder that the 1:1 result looks terrible? Not really.

That's not the phone's fault, it's the photographer's. If you're doing side-by-side comparisons, frame the subjects identically or adjust the crop so that the "zoom" percentage matches (IE, the cropped image of the Z5 is smaller). Dxomark do the former with all their tests.

I'm not going to say that this would magically make the Z5 sharper than the G4 (Sony still need to work on their algorithms) but good god, it sure as hell isn't that bad!!

That's an ATROCIOUS comparison.
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
Come on dehnhaide, indulge me. How is it "technical nonsense?"

1) Objects are optically smaller on the Z5 compared to the other phones.

2) Comparing a 20 MP (or 23 MP) pic to a 16 MP pic means each pixel on the Z5 contains less data.

Point #2 is important because this is due to the constraint of the small sensor. On a DSLR, with a big sensor, this would not be the case. A few years ago on a digital camera forum, there was a discussion on sensor size vs. effective MPs. For a 1/2.3" sensor, the general consensus was that it could resolve a limit of about 10-12 MP, under ideal circumstances.

So effectively, we are cramming more pixels into less effective resolution, hence each pixel contains less actual data. The higher MP count helps gather slightly more data overall, but not on a per pixel basis (cannot exceed the physical limits of the sensor). This is why I've been asking whether the 8 MP pics look as good as the 23 MP pics. In night time photos, the effective data rate probably drops below 8 MP, so it may be far more efficient to encode at 8 MP size.
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
And as if by magic I've just uploaded a raft of 8MP shots, including some night shots, to Flickr. https://flic.kr/s/aHskn4W5uU

I'm not so familiar with how well the competition handles night shots and I had nothing to compare to but the detail was half-decent and it had no trouble locking focus. Equal, I would say, to results from my Z1 at 8MP, if not slightly better.

Room for improvement? Yes. These were very low light, however - the light sources you see are all you get. The scene is brightened significantly by the camera.
[Xperia Z5 General] mizmo.lu:
I have a Z5 too but hadn't the chance to really test the cam. It's late now and dark, I'll try to make and share a couple of shots tomorrow.
[Xperia Z5 General] PRo_Artsy:
Another Thing, the sensor here is 4:3, So try to set it on that aspect ratio.... Will get more refined results !!!
[Xperia Z5 General] doministry:
Looks like great night shots. Even if they have some noise on edges, they look sharp and sexy.
[Xperia Z5 General] TheEndHK:
It's okay for a normal mobile but not worth for this freaking high price for this quality, I'll wait it updates the camera and price go down. I've got Z1c and S6, personally I much prefer a bit cooler WB on Sony and very dislike too warm tone and over saturated but S6 focus and OIS really impressive me though. So, if Z5/Z5c still performs badly later I may stick with S6 and actually wait for Z6/Z6c/Z6 mini.

To the Pixel to Pixel comparison or running benchmark things, you can argue that Z5 got more pixels and wider angle and not fair to but in real world usage, we've to compare all cameras with their full potential. We can not cut the 24mm to 28mm if yes what's the point to pay so much money to get the 24mm and 23MP?
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
If you take this camera on its own merits, the Z5 is VERY good; see my Flickr feed, above. It is ONLY the parameters of the comparisons linked to above that make the Z5 look bad - in real life, you'll frame the picture as YOU want it framed and I guarantee that it'll look great.

The Z5 has, hands down, a far, FAR better camera than the Z1 - itself an excellent camera. That is personal experience talking.

The full potential of this camera is NOT demonstrated by putting it on 24mp and standing in the same place while you compare it to a 16mp phone. That's not showing potential, that's hobbling the damn thing.

Correct the aspect ratio (IE step forward a pace and a half) and drop it to 8mp and you'll end up with an image that is just as detailed and bright as the S6. Drop it to 20mp and you'll get a darker image with more errors and noise but, so long as you've moved nearer the subject, far more detail.

I'll be posting examples on this tomorrow.

But anyone who can turn around and say that this phone has a substandard camera simply hasn't used the thing!

To rely on badly thought out nonsense like the Dutch one above is foolish. Test the camera yourself.
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
Personally, I'm not arguing that the Z5 is better or worse for pics. I don't know all the intricacies of what makes a "better" pic. What I do know well is analog-to-digital conversion and bit-rate sampling.

This is like discussing audio. To say that an audio recording is better because it is louder is not fair. First, the waveform must be normalized or (better yet) recorded under the same conditions, then compare the signal to noise ratio, attenuation and distortion. With pics, it's the same principles.

If the pics don't even look the same to begin with (which they don't), there is no point of reference for comparison. It is then just a subjective comparison.
[Xperia Z5 General] TheEndHK:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2730097

http://xdaforums.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-xperia-camera-unlocked-t3071161

Not really though. The stock cam on Z1/Z1c is real bad but if you got root and the stock mod cam above is superb quality. I've used them on my Z1c and the result is better than your Z5 samples so I said the Z5 is bad. But like I said, it's only early build software now(my S6 first firmware was also super bad) and I think a huge improvement will come later so actually no any serious talking here before Sony real going to update it.
[Xperia Z5 General] Cambapo:
I've downloaded a lot of samples over the internet, and yes, the details are HORRIBLE. However, I also could notice that these people, God knows why, use a hella high ISO, and that's why the pictures are noisy. C'mon, why on earth would you use a 4000 ISO on a day bright scene? I'm sure that if you lower it to 50 you'll have the best photo ever on a smartphone.
[Xperia Z5 General] dehnhaide:
I am not sure any of them has used manual controls! I have been myself amazed from the very first shots available on the Internet of how high the ISO in the EXIF details was for most of the shots. Nonetheless I have no idea if a Manual mode is available (I suppose it should be) and why on Earth is it used so precarious.
[Xperia Z5 General] veletron:
If auto, means that the camera uses a high ISO for no good reason then auto is flawed. 99.999% of users will only ever use auto (XDA users aint the mainstream!), so comparisons only make any sense with auto on both devices.
[Xperia Z5 General] doministry:
Comparing camera quality on Auto?

Nonsense. It doesn't work.

---------- Post added at 09:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 AM ----------

I CANNOT wait to test mine. It's very expensive.

I plan to get mine on November... Some time of waiting.

I bet it will be a killer.
[Xperia Z5 General] veletron:
We will agree to disagree then.
[Xperia Z5 General] TordFuglstad:
As a professional photographer I can say that this phone so far has a very impressive camera.

The dynamic range is insane, I haven't encountered a situation where the highlights has been blown out or the shadows completely dark yet.

The exposure metering system in the camera does a very good job of finding the right exposure.

The color reproduction is very very good, far better than any other smartphone I've seen.

Yeah the colors are "duller" and less "contrasty" than other phones, but this is because it is neutral. And everyone has got to love neutral.

Neutral means that it is much easier for anyone to edit the photo to get it where you want it.

I see that some people complain about detail and sharpness. And yes, there is some lack of sharpness and some "smudgyness" in the corners. But for **** sake, my $1300 nikon lens is also less sharp and "smudgy" in the corners. The center sharpness of this camera is very good and the capture of details is also good. There is no chromatic aberration at all, not even at F/2. And I've tested this in the corners in very high contrast situations. Even my Nikon D800 with the $1300 24-120 gets chromatic aberration on the widest aperture.

Ok, the 23 mp photos isn't perfect when you zoom in 100%. But who the **** uses their smartphone as a professional camera anyway? Most of people will not print photos bigger than A4 and at 23mp this will mean that the original photo will be downscaled and the photo appear sharper after print. And who prints phone photos anyways? Let's face it guys, most people take photos for snapshots or to post on social media. And for social media you don't really need photos bigger than 1500 on the short side. Again this will mean that the 23mp photos of the Z5 will be downscaled and appear sharper.

It might not be perfect in a lab or testing it to the max zoomed 100% in. But in real life use, this phone has a camera that is so good that I will actually start leaving the D800 at home some times. And just to put it that way, my D800 with 24-120 is not perfect in a lab either.

Remember that Sony makes sensors for Nikon and have some awesome cameras themselves. I knew I wouldn't be disappointed even though there are so many haters.

Here you can find some test shots done today. The test shots were done in Manual mode 23mp without any tweaking of the settings.

Test shots with the Sony Z5 in manual mode. No settings altered. by TordFuglstad, on Flickr
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
If you've (as Matt Damon would say) "Scienced the ****" out of your Z1 cam then you probably do get better results. I'd be interested in samples: could you link to some so that I can compare? I don't see the current Rom Z1 cam as "Real bad" but I have no way to compare to what you've done with yours.

The current Z5 software does the most basic processing on the full 23mp image so it's full of artefacts and assorted edge errors, if you pixel peep. They did nothing to the Z1 21MP images for nearly a year until they finally relented and added half decent processing to full res images. I am thinking that history will repeat itself, here. Let's see what November brings.
[Xperia Z5 General] DennisDD78:
TordFuglstad, so, what is your opinion about those lack of sharpness "smudgyness" in the corners, especially at the left side, is it software issue or hardware (lens, sensor or what ?) ?
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
I'm really enjoying your work! :) And yes: a lesson, here - always switch to manual: the ISO is always better in manual and the auto white balance is generally spot on. "Superior" Auto is nothing of the kind.
[Xperia Z5 General] TheEndHK:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/e451np

Here are some photo I've taken today with Z1c and S6, you can identify it by the folder name or file name. Z1c got both 8MP and 20MP but I've been rolled back to KitKat and 20MP mode on KK is buggy and easy soft, it should perform more better on Lolipop.
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
Thanks, I'll have a look in a moment. :) Much appreciated.

---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 PM ----------

There has been a lot said, above, about how "Awful" the Z5 is in some site's side by side comparisons with the competition. As has been pointed out by myself and others, the Z5's wider field of view has not been taken into account in these tests and the phone has NOT been used at its optimum resolution (8MP) in each case. This has heavily biased the result.

The image below shows how this can be deeply misleading, as do the following set of images.

The Image attached shows the difference that adjusting for the different field of view and dropping to 8MP makes: the result speaks for itself. All I have done is simulate the the level playing field that the sites should have given the Z5.

Initial image: both images cropped identically - on the left is with the image at 20MP while standing a step away, to simulate the FOV difference. This simulates how the phone has been used in the tests referenced earlier on this thread. On the right, is an 8mp image with a single step forward to adjust for the FOV. The result is dramatic.

Thoughts are welcome. Flickr feed demonstration https://www.flickr.com/gp/136945683@N06/Tw852X
[Xperia Z5 General] itsjustJOH:
Thanks for this. Could you do that again in good-lighting?
[Xperia Z5 General] TheEndHK:
I sure know the FOV and more pixels do affected quite a lots the final result but the question is should not be taken into account by us(we should only pay the money, that's the only job) but Sony(it advertised 24mm and high MP and selling). All reviewer will just shoot the camera with full specs. Not because of how not fair it is but most guys doing such things daily and people do only care about this.

Anyhow, my S6 in first month was also very bad so we'll see until the new camera software. I've heard it will be delivered in the middle of Nov but unconfirmed. I actually more concerned about the image blur LFS bcoz it's a hardware issue and I found the batches in HK also got LFS. Software problem indeed is easy fix, just threw it some time.
[Xperia Z5 General] TobbeSwe:
I´ve talked with Sony yesterday and the support guy said that the new camera update is only a layout fix because alot of people think that the current layout is over complicated. He said nothing about picture quality or anything like that.
[Xperia Z5 General] doministry:
There will be quality updates for sure.
[Xperia Z5 General] TobbeSwe:
I´m sure there will be quality updates, yes. I even talked to them again today and said that we who use the Xperia line up want the full Camera 2 API with manual shutter speed and so on and manual ISO in 20/23MP settings in manual mode. I hope that we get that in future updates.
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
I was checking out the "blind" camera test on Android Authority. They used the not-default 23 MP mode. Sigh. Anyway, I used it as opportunity to check out the 23 MP SA mode in various light conditions.

Observation #1: The sensor at full-res is noisy. This matches up with the specs, as the Z5 has one of the highest pixel to sensor size ratios (maybe one of Lumias is worse?). I think 23 MP is best-suited only for bright, daytime or very well-lit shots, which is needed to keep the signal-to-noise ratio high. In moderate to low lighting, the 8 MP modes are probably far cleaner and better, being able to effectively combine 3 pixels' worth of data per pixel.

#2: The sensor is capable of finer detail than the one used in the S6/Note 5/G4 (even with its larger FOV). There is one pic of the Vodafone store, where it is possible to read words far inside the store, but not legible in the other comparison pics. Why that one pic has greater detail, I do not know. Maybe longer exposure time? SA mode seems a bit wonky.

#3: Superior Auto mode (in 23/20 MP?) needs work. The Z5 pics were very inconsistent from pic to pic. DXOMark review also commented that HDR sometimes worked inconsistently. It may also partly be a limitation of using the sensor at full-res, since there aren't any extra pixels to do adjustments.

#4: Reviewers really need to try out (and leave it at) the default 8 MP mode. Everyone seems to think (I included) that 23 MP is automatically better than 8 MP, and never bother to test the 8 MP mode. I don't think I've seen one review that has used the 8 MP mode (other than DXO). I guess "it takes the densest 8 MP pics ever!" isn't exactly a great campaign slogan for Sony to use. Guess it's hard to market "less is more" in the MPs marketing game.

The new Sony sensor is a bit of a strange animal. I don't think Sony did a very good job of helping reviewers understand how the camera works. And camera software updates, please. :)
[Xperia Z3v General] sumcallmetim:
I dont know where i went wrong but now the only place i can get to on my phone is holding volume up and putting it in fastboot mode. It a locked boot loader of course. Am i Screwed? I could really use some help.
[Xperia Z3v General] RoyalDrew:
To be honest I'm pretty sure I was in the same spot for a bit.. You should be able to flash the stock ftf using flashtool I would think.
[LG Optimus L9 P760, P765, P768, P769] bt109:
Okay, this is my first post on XDA, so bear with me. I just got into rooting/modding, and in the course of learning how to root my other devices, I read about the difference between "soft" and "hard" bricking, and realized my old LG might be worth rescuing. It just quit working one day, when it gave me a white screen of death after reboot. Now it just gives a black screen with the LG logo and the words "Security Error" below the logo.

I have tried master reset, and that just leads to a prone android figure with a red triangle, which I understand is not good news.

I have tried the LG Mobile Support Tool, which just says the device is fully updated, and when I try the additional recovery update, it gets 75% through and then says it failed "due to an error." Oh really. <_<

I do not know the OS version, kernel date, etc because I cannot get into the settings. Had I known what I know now, I would have jotted them down in Evernote for this exact situation. What info do I need to provide so you can help me with this?
[LG Optimus L9 P760, P765, P768, P769] nu2moding:
find the thread about fastboot and the Lg L9, flash the u-boot and x-loader for 769,

run the flash tool but get into software update mode by holding vol + when you plug into the usb