yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 6P Accessories] sirxdroid:
Note that in order to get the charging current in Ampere you have to add what the phone is currently using which can vary depending what background tasks may be running, CPU ramp up, etc. So when you saw 1.5A if the phone was using let's say 300mA you'd be charging at 1.8A. When you saw 1.25A if the phone was using 550mA you'd still be charging at 1.8A.

To do that: unplug the phone from the charger, run Ampere and watch it for a while and sort of make a note of the number (around 250-300mA I suspect). That's your baseline. Plug in the charger and the ADD the number you see to your baseline number. The total is (approximately) the charging current.

You can buy a cheap "USB charger doctor" (search for it on ebay) and measure it at the charger. Ampere is good to give you an idea and to compare cables and chargers against each other. It's good at identifying problem cables or chargers if for example you expect a cable/charger combo to give you 1.5A but you only see 300mA consistently in Ampere (I've seen that with a "high quality" cable that could not carry more than 600mA if its life depended on it and the battery was actually discharging when plugged in with GPS and music streaming on because the phone was using more than the cable could deliver -- there was nothing wrong with the charger, it was the cable).
[Nexus 6P Accessories] BillyTheRatKing:
That's what I thought I've seen people say. But I just don't see that info in the spec sheets (I'm a computer engineer myself, though not a USB engineer :p), do you know where it is stated in the USB specification documents? I'll be able to test it soon enough when my cables show up.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] sirxdroid:
I would say it also depends a lot on the wires in the cables, not just the resistors. They usually use thin wires for the power lines and you'd be lucky to even get close to 2.4A. Now I don't know what the chances of the wires melting really are. They are probably safe paired with a decent charger that has some protection in place.

Most decent chargers should prevent that. I tried 1A chargers with non-compliant cables and saw between 0.9-1.1A so at least those chargers were doing their job.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
You're looking for specifications on charging rates? They're scattered all over, but I'll try to help you track it down.

Go here, download the Universal Serial Bus Revision 3.1 Specification zip file. Then go here and download the Battery Charging v1.2 Spec and Adopters Agreement zip file.

For Type C specs, you have to look in the USB Type-C Specification Release 1.1.pdf.

-Section 2 will give you an overview of the pins, wires, cable types, etc defined in the spec. Section 2.4 defines Vbus, which is relevant to what you're looking for.

-Section 3 is mechanical, which will define the physical characteristics of the cables and ports. If you want to know how to build a cable, look in section 3.

-Section 4 is where the real meat and potatoes of the Type-C charging spec resides. This is the functional section. This is the section where mere mortals are supposed to make heads or tails of stuff like this:

View attachment 3546370

Sometimes, when I'm really bored, I just stare at that until I get dizzy and fall over. Such great fun.

Anyway, head down to section 4.6. This is the core of power for type-c. I'll let you read that. Enjoy! I found 4.6.2.2 and all of 4.8 to be relevant. =) Oh, 4.11 defines which resistor to use in a cable, depending on what it is. If you've made it this far, check out 5.1.1. It has nothing to do with power, but it's really cool how pins can be reassigned at-will in the type-c spec.

For Type-A power specs, you need to head into the USB_3_1_r1.0.pdf document. Go south until you hit section 11. (It's near the end of the document.) You might want to read all of it, but if you're looking for a cheat sheet, 11.4.5 is what you want.

USB BC2.1 specs are in the separate .zip you downloaded. Open BC1.2_FINAL.pdf. The dedicated charging port section (4.4) is probably what you're looking for, but you should at least read sections 1.4 and 3 while you're in there.

I hope that answered your question? If not, let me know.

Thanks
[Nexus 6P Accessories] NCguy:
Why doesn't Ampere have an option to add the current phone draw to the charge rate so you can see the total draw? I mean for an app named Ampere the real Ampere is the total, correct?
[Nexus 6P Accessories] FrayAdjacent:
I was most interested in whether or not the 6P would transfer data at USB 3 speeds, and this appears to be the case. I wanted to be able to transfer files to the phone to essentially use it as a USB drive I always have with me. I have a large encrypted volume I use to keep scans of tax documents, lists of serial numbers of my more valuable property, etc, and I'd like to have a copy on my phone.

The file is 5GB, and with a full USB 3.0 A to C cable, transferring the file from a Windows machine to my 6P took about 3 minutes. To compare, a USB 2.0 memory key took about 23 minutes to transfer.

I tried to test on my MacBook, but the Android File Transfer thing has a filesize limit of 4GB. :( I may have to shrink the file a little bit.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Brandito:
That's strange, my understanding was the 6p only used USB 2.0 speeds.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] FrayAdjacent:
IMHO, putting a USB C connector on the phone and limiting it to USB 2.0 speeds would be stupid. STOOOOOOOpid.

I'm glad that it is running at 3.0 speeds.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Brandito:
Are you positive it's running at those speeds? Everything I've read, including statements from Google, say it's USB 2.0. Part of the reason for limiting to 2.0 is supposedly to do with interference with the radios.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] BillyTheRatKing:
The Nexus 6P is definitely USB2.0 sadly. Your memory stick probably just has slower flash memory built in, while the Nexus 6P can actually achieve full USB 2.0 speed. USB 2.0 max speed is 60MB/s, but due to overhead is more like 30MB/s. So your file of 5GB X 1000 = 5000MB, (5000MB / 30MB)/60sec = 2.8 minutes, thus achieving max USB 2.0 speed.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] FrayAdjacent:
Yeah, that's true... the 6P is just faster that my slow-ass USB2.0 stick.

Well, running the phone at 2.0 speeds is... STUPID.

I am disappoint.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] chistery:
Tried using CheckR and it says my Orzly cable which isn't complaint according to reports, is. Bit confused now.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] BillyTheRatKing:
Thanks for the pointers! I've been combing through the documentation , and specifically the Type-C spec, leads me to believe that a USB Type-A to Type-C cable will be limited to 1.5A. Because such a cable with the proper 56KΩ identification resistor makes the device default to USB BC 1.2 protocol, and the USB BC 1.2 protocol states that a device may only draw up to 1.5A.

However, it's all very confusing and it may depend on what the charger broadcasts? Hopefully it's not limited to 1.5A, but I'll be able to test once my cables/chargers come in.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
Correct. All of the specifications will say 1.5 amps. But in real world application you're going to see the phone draw more than that. Which leads me to believe there's something in the protocol that allows for communication and negotiation for more, I just don't know what that is. That's why I'd really like to see Benson or one of his Google buddies explain why or how it does that. Completely confusing.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] sirxdroid:
My guess is because it can't determine what the phone is currently consuming, so it can't just make it up and add a random number. Ampere is not meant to be accurate, it's meant to give you an idea, identify obvious problems with cables/chargers and be able to compare cables/chargers against each other.

There's another app, but the numbers it reports seem to match Ampere so the numbers come from the same source I assume:

Current Monitor

Bonus with this app is that it tells you whether your cable is compliant, but you have to decode the number yourself based on the phone you have, so CheckR is a better choice for that.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] dealova2008:
There is a new released powerbank with USB-C Input port but 2.4A only. Any idea why they limited to 2.4A only ? With 5A/3A charger and Type-C to Type-C cable I thought it should delivered 3A.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] sirxdroid:
Would charging at 3A reduce the life of the battery? At night I don't really need rapid charging, would it help the battery life to charge "slower", say from a USB A charger with a compliant cable?
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
I don't think so. When the battery is empty, it can charge faster. The empty cells are able to accept a charge easier than a full one. As it fills, you'll notice it lowers the current accordingly.

Voltage is the amount of force that pushes electrons through a circuit. Amperage (or current) is the

amount

of electrons flowing through the circuit. So, it's like filling a water balloon from your kitchen sink: you can fill the balloon faster when it is empty, but as it starts to get full you slow down so it doesn't pop. The pressure (voltage) from the kitchen sink never changes, just the amount of water flowing through it (current) changes.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] sirxdroid:
This article claims otherwise:

http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/15/huawei-graphite-fast-charging-battery/
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
Cool. New battery tech! I like it.

To use my water balloon analogy again, you fill up the balloon and then empty it, over and over again, eventually it will wear out. Batteries do the same thing. Use better rubber in the balloon, and it will last longer. (Or you can fill it faster without it wearing out.)

I guess my point is this: the battery in your phone isn't going to die tomorrow because of the methods used to charge it. Take Qualcomm's QuickCharge on the Nexus 6 as an example. I've charged that phone multiple times a day for a year, and the battery is still going strong. While science will tell me the battery isn't as strong as the day I got it (and I believe that to be true), the difference isn't large enough that it is even noticeable to me.

Manufacturers know the charging method is destructive, but faster charging is a feature they can't afford not to have. They also know the expected life span of the batteries, and that span far exceeds the warranty period - I will guarantee you that much! OEM's hate doing warranty replacements, it kills profits.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
In short: the problem has always been present in quick charging. I wouldn't overstate the issue. :)
[Nexus 6P Accessories] dealova2008:
In case of 6P, the C-rate is 0.87 and 1.1 for 5X
[Nexus 6P Accessories] chistery:
Still confused why my original Orzly 4 pack of multi coloured cables get a pass in CheckR when all reports suggest they should be failing.

I was sent a new 4 pack of Orzly USB3 cables and whilst they pass too, the plastic casing is too big when you have a case on the phone.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
I'm starting to doubt the reports from people using CheckR. I know the cable has to be plugged into a computer for CheckR to test the cable properly, and I'm starting to doubt that people are doing that when using the app.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] sirxdroid:
Paging [MENTION=5550688]Elnrik[/MENTION] again ... one thing I don't understand, what should we expect the charging rate to be from compliant cables when hooked up to a computer port:

- compliant USB 2.0 A-to-C: 500mA? Does the computer port matter whether it's USB 2.0 or 3.0?

- compliant USB 3.0 A-to-C: 900mA (assuming the computer has a USB 3.0 port)?

What about when the same compliant cables above are hooked up to a (wall or car) charger that supports 2.4A?

The reason I'm asking is because I tried the short cable that comes with the 6P on 2 laptops and measured the current with a USB dongle:

- Mac Book Pro, USB 3.0 port: 440mA (low, given that the Mac port can do 2.1A to charge iPads)

- Dell laptop, USB 3.0 port: 1.4A -- how did this happen if the 6P cable is USB 2.0 compliant? Shouldn't that limit it to 500mA?

What resistor is a USB 3.0 A-to-C cable supposed to have? Same 56Kohm as the USB 2.0 A-to-C cable?

Is there any benefit (for rapid charging, I know for data there isn't) to buy a USB 3.0 A-to-C cable? I see that a few listings on Amazon are updated to say that the cable is a new version that has the correct 56Kohm resistor. Now I don't want to be stuck charging at 500mA when the chargers and computer ports I have can do much better than that. If that is the case, then I'd rather have a non-compliant cable and charge faster :)

What are you thoughts on the issue?
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
Have a read through this. It answers several of your questions.

https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung/posts/4xq4EDjXMw8

In short, the negotiation between device and host is what will determine max charging rate (current draw) along with how full/empty the battery is.

Also, I will reply to several of your specific questions when I'm not delirious from insomnia. :)

Good night.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] sirxdroid:
Thanks. I read through the link and I'm still confused why the stock 6P short cable only pulls 440mA from the Mac port (and the phone shows 'Charging Slowly'). I have a non-compliant cable that pulls 1.4A from the same port which is much more practical and safe too as the Mac port can do above 2A. This makes me not want to buy compliant cables as I want a decent fast charge when all I have is the Mac port to charge from.

Interesting that the same short cable pulls 1.4A from a Dell laptop, so I don't know who's compliant and who's not and where the negotiation fails.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] BillyTheRatKing:
So I got a Necktek USB-C to USB-A spec compliant cable and an Anker Power-IQ charger (capable of up to 2.4A output) and I tested it and I'm utterly confused.

I started with my Nexus 6P around 10% battery, measured the discharge at around 300mA with Ampere. Then I plugged in the cable and it was charging at 1560mA. So that would put it slightly over the 1.5A max of the USB-C to USB-A spec at 1.8A? Maybe it's just the inaccuracy of Ampere's measurement capabilities or Anker's own proprietary charging protocol. So I can't be sure if it caps out at 1.5A or goes a little further.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] subhani:
I use Current Monitor instead of Ampere, simply because it is MUCH faster and more accurate. Having said so, both Ampere and Current Monitor eventually produce the same readings, if you can be patient enough with Ampere.

Having said this, Current Monitor has shown me readings consistently topping out at 2.9A when using the Google supplied wall charger and then the Visnic 3A Car charger I got from Amazon. In fairness, Ampere shows me the same result, eventually. So I am not convinced that Ampere ignores 'drain' current and only shows draw. Since Gsam and Current Monitor show THE SAME 2.9A when using Benson verified chargers.

Last word on the Tronsmart car charger (considering above point about including 'drain current'), I was scared into thinking it was giving more current than it was rated to bear, but it correctly reads 2.4A (consistently topping out at 2.4A, fluctuating like every other certified charger). This was recorded using Current Monitor again.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] sirxdroid:
It could be that Ampere works differently when it's using the "Old measurement method" as we have to on the 6P. When I played with it a few months ago on my N5 I had to add the discharge current to get it to match what my USB dongle was showing.

So I just run a quick test with the stock short A-to-C cable and a wall 2A charger.

USB dongle: 1.53-1.54A (consistent)

Current Monitor: 1183-1484 mA

Ampere: 1260-1480 mA

The numbers are kinda all over the place using the apps and it doesn't look like we need to add to the Ampere readings though it can be confusing when the readings are low compared to the dongle. The USB dongle seems to be more reliable, but I'm not sure how accurate these cheap things are.

I also noticed a new setting and entry in Ampere now:

Max. USB curr: 1500mA

which sounds correct for the cable I'm using.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] BillyTheRatKing:
I would say the USB dongle is the most accurate, since it's physically measuring current flow. But yeah, sounds like USB-A to USB-C is limited to the 1.5A spec.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] subhani:
Indeed. I don't think we need to add to Ampere's readings. The important figure to look for is the max reading and this seems to be the same for all three methods you've used. i.e. 1.5A or less.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
I've made my final edits to the OP. Added a few more tables, updated some information, and indicated that I won't be updating the OP from this point forward.

I believe that the state of Type-C regarding Nexii has been fleshed out well enough that there is little I can do to increase the value of the OP to the XDA community.

Thanks.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] appleli1:
Hi Elnrik, how can I contact you? Can't send the private message to you :) It shows"Elnrik has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her."
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
I should edit that post to indicate that I will still answer questions on this thread I'm just not updating the original post anymore.

I've added you to my contact list so if you would like to send me a PM now you can.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] rice923:
I recently received a cheap cable I ordered a long while ago before all this cable compliance stuff was around. Having just received it, I checked for compliance with CheckR. It did not pass.

That being said, I proceeded to check what kind of current I'm drawing from a Samsung wall charger rated for 1A output. Using said cable and Ampere, I got a net positive current of 860mA. The negative current prior to plugging the phone into the charger was -70mA with all apps cleared and doing nothing. This gives me a total current of 930mA from the charger

So that brings me to my ultimate question; I'm still drawing a current that's just slightly under the rating of the charger, with a cable that is NOT COMPLIANT according to CheckR. Is this still considered unsafe? It seems perfectly safe to me since I'm not drawing more current than the charger is capable of. I am still torn on whether or not to use this cable. I don't want fast charging, since I'm using this for slow overnight charges.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
I've tried answering this before for people with 'No, not safe, i would quit using that cable.' and such a simple reply never really seems to get anyone anywhere. So, instead I am going to state the facts (OK, and a little bit of my own opinion) and let you make an informed decision.

The issue here is that the negotiation which normally occurs between the device and the host is not happening as intended. The device is being misled to believe that 3A current is safe to draw from the 1A rated host. So instead of both units agreeing upon what is safe and abiding by that arrangement, the charger has to regulate it all by itself. It probably wasn't designed to be doing that full time. The risk is that the charger could fail, and with that failure there is some potential the phone could be damaged. Having an electrical failure occur next to my sleeping head doesn't sound overly appealing. (That last sentence was not the aforementioned little bit of opinion.)

Regardless, if you don't mind the risk involved, feel free to use the cable. You could probably call the cable maker and ask for an exchange or refund. I've done this and they didn't even want me to return the old cable. (It was an adaptor, actually.)

My Opinion: There are far too many cheap yet compliant cables readily available right now for me to warrant risking a $500+ phone - or to even risk a $35 charger, for that matter - compared to a few days wait and $8 to get a good cable.

http://amzn.com/B00S8GU2OC - $8 compliant, Prime eligible, Type A to C cable.

I hope that helps.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] rice923:
Thanks for the informed

Informative reply. I'll probably just buy that amazon cable you linked. Appreciate it!
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
I forgot to add a smiley face. That always seems to be a nice thing to do, yet I always forget.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
Oops. Did it again.

Here: :)

Enjoy
[Nexus 6P Accessories] sirxdroid:
[MENTION=5550688]Elnrik[/MENTION] - is there a way to tell whether the charger is being stressed? Can the charger negotiate directly with the device regardless of the cable being used? There are chargers such as Anker that claim some IQ (though some people are calling it BS instead).
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
You have to use some method to determine how much current is being drawn from the host to know if you are exceeding it's rating. The best way would be to measure in-line using a device. (Something that is connted between the charger and phone.) Failing that, we use apps that pull data from the phone's logs or sensors, like Ampere or Current Monitor.

If the data shows *more* current being pulled than the charger is rated to supply, I would call it stressed. (Beyond stressed, actually.) If the current shows as the max rating of the charger, we have to assume one of two things is occurring. Either the charger is being stressed and is forced to self-limit the current via some protection method, or the phone has somehow figured out that it's only going to get so much juice and has settled for that and is doing so safely. (The latter is only going to happen if you are using a USB compliant cable.) The point is, if you pull 1A from a 1A rated host, the data is inconclusive as to which is occurring.

With that said, keep in mind the following: (This also answers your second question.) Type C ports and devices use a CC wire to negotiate for current. Always. Type A ports don't have a CC pin/wire. That is why a Type A to C cable or adaptor must use the correct pullup resistor on the CC line. The Type A port can't identify itself on the CC line, so the cable has to do that identification itself. Thats exactly what the resistor does. When the correct resistor is used, the Type C device knows it needs to use other methods to negotiate power. If it sees the wrong resistor, it will believe 1.5 or 3 amps is safe, and won't correctly negotiate for power.

So, in our example above, if we are drawing 1A from a 1A rated host using a non-compliant cable, we can safely believe the charger is being stressed. If we use a good cable, we know that the phone is aware that it is on a legacy USB host, and will either safely negotiate for power via BC 2.1 protocols, or failing that it will default to legacy USB power states - .9A or .5A. (Btw, BC 2.1 = Battery Charge)

Now, regarding the Anker IQ charging (I am unsure what the specific name for it is), i think this means that the charger can "speak" or understand multiple different protocols for current negotiation. I've read Apple has their own (what a surprise). You also have Qualcomm Quick Charge. And then there is the USB BC 2.1. If there are others, perhaps from Samsung, I'm unsure of what they do. I believe the Anker IQ thing is an attempt to make a universal charger capable of using as many of those protocols as possible, thus widely useable across multiple devices for charging. Whether it is just fluff or it actually works, I can't say. I have not tested it to know.

Overly long explanations like this are why I suggest you just buy known good Type C chargers. Type C to type C is pretty much completly safe and we don't have to worry about all of this.

:laugh:
[Nexus 6P Accessories] jesssiii:
Are you familiar with these charging cords? https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B017NIAZTC/ref=ya_aw_oh_bia_dp?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/your-acco...0533046&returnSummaryId=&shipmentId=DH1CMNhbb

Like to know if I should return them.
[Nexus 6P Accessories] Elnrik:
I am not familiar with them. Sorry