yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
Dear lord, did you actually read the thread? Take SuperSaf review, for example. He didn't even know there was Intelligent Active (hardware stabilization). He rushed out the Z5 videos to get Youtube hits, and never bothered to really test the Z5. He did a second review to test IA mode, but that was too little too late. He didn't even test the 8 MP mode. Fanboys keep using his review like it was a definitive test. LOL!

We need more constructive discussion about how the new camera system works, not BS trolling.
[Xperia Z5 General] Chord_Hugo87:
first of all you do realize this is his latest video? I dont even know what video you are talking about but irrelevant, I was talking about the photos not the video taking so stabilization is irrelevant in this talk.

second, why would you take picture in 8mp mode when the camera itself offer 23mp? users suppose to use 8mp when 23mp? what about the random consumer that dont visit XDA, how are they suppose to know to use the 8mp resolution instead of 23mp....another irrelevant point.

third, Its not BS trolling if its true, I back my opinion with legitimate claims. I dint come in here and just yell out "Samsung is the best" then leave, THATS Trolling. Choose your wordings before throwing it out, its like people who use big words in the wrong format.
[Xperia Z5 General] monx®:
dude. 1st, pls take a look on my updated signature banner .lol.

maybe u still dn get my point. currently im a sony fan. thats why im here. i say 'currently' bcos, i played with massive amount of phones frm variety of brands inclusive but not limited to HTC, Samsung, Huawei, etc. I love them all for their own specific device strength.

Now, i would like to emphasize, Z5 has the best camera in thin, waterproof, elegant, etc.

Read about DxOMark, Pocket-lint & The Independent review here.
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
Okay, okay, I take back the trolling part, sorry. I'm sure dehnhaide would want to tear another strip off of me. xD

That was his second review of the Z5. He did a slightly better job, but still didn't test the default 8 MP mode. If he were a good reviewer, he should have spend the time to understand the phone. That's what reviews are for - to help consumers understand the product.

8 MP is the default. A regular consumer who doesn't touch the settings would use the default. A user who likes to tinker would try out different settings and Google for info. Reviewers are under a time crunch. So they assumed 23 MP was the best setting and never tried anything else.

Part of the fault lies with Sony. They should have never made the 23/20 MP modes available in Superior Auto if it wasn't intended to be used under all conditions. Or at least clearly state the reason why 8 MP was the default.

Another problem is the way cameras are marketed. We all assume that more MPs = better camera. The Sony engineers probably thought of it a different way - it's better to combine a series of smaller pixels instead of one single larger pixel to get a cleaner signal. They must have tested that a 1/2.3" sensor can't get much more than 8 MPs worth of data. But that's not how regular people think about a camera. Considering Sony's legendary marketing <cough!>, I highly doubt they could convince the public that "we have the best phone camera with less MPs!" Apple could pull it off because, well, isheep. xD
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
How are they supposed to know that they're to use 8mp? Well if they don't touch the settings then that's what happens by default.

As much as I like Supersarf, he made a mistake in choosing to take the phone out of its default setting. Sadly, he's far from the only reviewer to do so.
[Xperia Z5 General] Chord_Hugo87:
you are making the assumption that all mobile enthusiast are pixel peepers, which is definitely not the case. A phone camera is suppose to be quick, easy, point and shoot. If sony dint get this notion then they really deserve to be bankrupt. Tinkering with settings on a mobile phone for picture quality is ludicrous and honestly its not going to beat any Canon 5D Mark 2 so why bother? no "professional" would utilized a phone camera for their product...would you hire someone who use a camera phone to take pictures of your product? more importantly weddings photos?

Like I said, Sony has been boasting big claims on all their ads but back it up with big flaws. Its the reason why they are soon to be going out of business because consumers are catching on to their schemes . I had a Z a long time ago, the issue of Camera and software softening during low light is still going on in the Z3V. That tells me they rely on heavy marketing scheme of "spec" in order to sell their product, this would work if there isnt better company out there. Even LG whose arrive to the mobile business late is surpassing them. Fire their whole team of idiots and hire some real programmers.

---------- Post added at 07:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 AM ----------

as I said before, It a point and shoot. You shouldnt need to do anything other then "POINT AND SHOOT". Does Sony fanboy get that notion?
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
Yes. That was my whole bloody point! To point and shoot with this phone means 8mp SA BY DEFAULT. Supersarf and others have NOT point and shot, they've dug into the settings and changed the mode. How is that difficult for you to understand??
[Xperia Z5 General] Chord_Hugo87:
what proof do you have that he did that?
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
What are you talking about? Sony really delivered this time with the Z5. It has the best video stabilization in any phone - head and shoulders above all others. Finally, a phone with usable video while moving! And yet, hardly a mention in most reviews. Not one review has discussed how the new closed-loop actuator works. Absolutely piss poor reviews!

As for pics, the default 8 MP works fine. If people are buying the Z5 and using the defaults, they get good super-sampled pics and the best stabilized video. How's that not an achievement? Sure, the Z3V left a bad taste in your mouth, but the Z5 is a different animal. Sony has finally put a good camera system in their phone.

And Sony have good marketing? Are you mistaking Sony for Apple? LOL!
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
Because he SAID SO! Christ on a bike, did you actually watch the video or just scan the comments below it??

Here's a crazy idea, why don't you test it yourself?

And here's another idea: why don't you take a look at some full res shots from someone who uses the thing, rather than small crops on a compressed YouTube video?

https://flic.kr/s/aHskn4W5uU
[Xperia Z5 General] Chord_Hugo87:
right...because all reviewers are bad right? none of them know what they're doing, only Sony users know what they doing.

if you dint catch my drift, that was sarcasm. Heres a thought maybe because its not that impressive.

where did you read that I said sony have good marketing? please re-read otherwise dont put words in people mouth.

---------- Post added at 08:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:33 AM ----------

what part of the video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-Yxha0-I10

please show me or I'm calling you a ****ing liar.
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
2:17!! For crying out loud!!! GAH! You're infuriating!!

Wanna call me names? Go right ahead, show everyone just how childish you can be.

And here's another idea: why don't you take a look at some full res shots from someone who uses the thing, rather than small crops on a compressed YouTube video?

https://flic.kr/s/aHskn4W5uU

Pay special attention to the Spar and Pub shots - shots not possible in the resolution that Saf CHOSE to put the phone in as 23mp has no night mode!
[Xperia Z5 General] Chord_Hugo87:
first of all...are you a grown ass man? grow up and talk like one, dont be like a 5 years old, no one told you or hold a gun to your head and tell you to reply to me...

second, he did not tweak any camera settings, he turn on the resolution of the pictures that is not consider tweaking the color, WB, or any way tamper with the picture. He clearly stated that at 2:00. If sony dint want user to turn up the MP then they shouldnt have boast about it nor should they have it as a feature.

MP does not do anything to the picture, get a clue. MP is only good if the picture is enlarge. If the camera is bad then its bad all around.

---------- Post added at 08:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 AM ----------

why does it matter if I look at the picture from his video or not? he's the one making the comparison not me. also its clearly he show the two images side by side and you can definitely tell which is better. your logic is flawed...

it doesnt matter what you show me, if there is no other camera to take the same shots then I have nothing to compare to, I can see some highlight getting blown out from some of those pictures but whatever.
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
Said the man who threatened to call me a ****ing liar?? I am annoyed with you because you are annoying. You can't go changing the goalposts as you choose, either; we're telling you that 8mp is the correct use of the camera and the DEFAULT mode. Had Saf spent any time researching or spending more than an afternoon with the thing, he'd know that. GSM understand that, as do Android Authority who will be making a point of it in their review - the person writing the review has already told me so.

You've gone from "People should see what it's like as a point and shoot" to "it should be good in all modes". I'm calling you on that. For someone pointing, shooting and not digging into settings, they would use 8mp SA. That was your initial point of complaint, stick to it.

Listen: 23mp Superior Auto does not fire up every mode of Superior Auto. It does not fire up Night mode, for example. It does not use the same ISO levels either.

Sony made a huge mistake in making 23mp a choice in SA because it encourages people to review it as such even though Sony themselves went to great lengths with the Z1 to point out that you should use 8mp because the camera supersampled.

That has not changed; the camera is designed to supersample. Use it properly and it will.

Now am I going to say that it's better than the S6? No. Actually, I think the S6 has the slightly better camera - especially with Macro shots. But that doesn't make this one **** and it doesn't mean that you learn jack from a compressed YouTube video made by someone who isn't using the camera as it should be used.
[Xperia Z5 General] Chord_Hugo87:
Point number 1 re-read what I said, "please show me or I'm calling you a ****ing liar" no where did I say you are a ****ing liar.

point number 2 fine if you said shooting at 8mp is better than 23mp then ok, if you enlarge the picture it would not show up as much detail as 23mp so it still a dud. If comparing Sony 8mp to samsung 16mp, enlarge those 2 pictures which one would be better? duh... EITHER WAY SONY STILL SCREWED THINGS UP.

Point number 3 NO WHERE DID I SAY I was comparing images from YOUTUBE RE-READ MY LAST STATEMENT, IT IS SAF MAKING THOSE COMPARISON. I SAID I CAN CLEARLY SEE THE DIFFERENCES WHERE ITS NOTICEABLE LIKE THE BLOWN OUT PICTURES OF THE LEAF.
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
The only question to answer in my shots is "were they true to the scene being shot?" - the mark of a good camera. Answer; yes - lighting and colour for every shot was identical to reality. Highlights blown out on a couple of shots? Yes. But Dynamic range is generally good, detail is high, colours are outstanding and, on 8mp shots, noise is extremely low - even at night, as demonstrated by the two shots I mentioned before.

Those are all marks of a good camera, which this is.
[Xperia Z5 General] Chord_Hugo87:
of course that is subjective...I dont know your photography skill and likewise you dont know mine, so saying such things is pointless and doesnt prove a damn thing....
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
And no where did I say that you HAD called me a ****ing liar, I said that you threatened to,... which you did. Re-read what I said. It's still childish to make threats, especially if you haven't checked that you're right in your assertion in the first place.

A supersampled 8mp image has more than enough detail to compare to a 16mp image, believe it of not. Maybe not at the 500x mark but more than enough for a 1/8 crop and less. Having compared myself, I can tell you that the 8mp pictures from the Z5 are remarkably close to the 23MP ones in detail (and the Z5 at 23mp has more detail than the Samsung - I spent an hour testing the two side-by-side before going for the Sony). You forget the point of Supersampling: no noise and refined detailing. You LOOSE detail with noise and with processing out the noise. With supersampling you retain more detail. When the Nokia 808 was released, there were plenty of 5mp images doing the rounds that destroyed 12mp pictures of competitors on detail DESPITE the lower resolution.

You're also not accounting at all for the Field of View - on the Samsung, the FOV is far less than the Sony: in essence, the image is "zoomed in" more by the lens. If you were to frame the two identically, you'd see that the difference between 16 and 8 is far smaller than you imagine - I've tested that myself. Sony have screwed NOTHING up in that regard. Why don't you go into a shop and test them yourself?

Point conceded. But Saf was coming to INCORRECT conclusions on low light images because he was using the wrong mode so, again: why don't you test the thing yourself?

You seem intent on rubbishing the Z5 cam and not listening to people when they try to explain their own experiences and where reviewers have gone wrong. Please don't bring your bias here if you're not going to try and listen and understand others' points of view, it's not helpful or constructive to anyone's purchasing decisions or understanding of the Z5.

---------- Post added at 09:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------

And a YouTube video does? Nothing seems to prove a damn thing, it seems, if you've a pre-conceived bias that you want to protect.

I have already stated that I think the S6 is a little better. My bias is against bull****, nothing more.
[Xperia Z5 General] Chord_Hugo87:
I'm going to concluded this...since it is long and tiring and late here where I'm at...I have try Sony product and given it multiple chances. From Sony google TV to their "high end" Headphones (MDR-1R) and multiple of their "smart phone" it always come to a failure (I own original Z, ZL, had the Z1 for 2 weeks, borrow my friend Z3v for a week, Hands on with the C4 for a couple hours oversea), its not a small failure, its always something big to leave you "wtf are they thinking, how can this be happen with today smartphone." from what I seen is, they release new smartphone every 6 month to try and lure people in and rob their money.

this is not to bash on their current product but to simply informed the users who are thinking about buying this phone, after all $800 is not a small price to pay for a phone that is suppose to be "Flag ship" features. Do I think a company should be given a second chance? yes, I gave HTC a chance with the M8 and it was an awesome multimedia phone (minus the camera) Do I think Sony is ready for another chance? No, fired their whole staff and hire new one, then I would take them serious. In the mean time, New user you been warned...

Checking out.....
[Xperia Z5 General] King p1n:
6P's photos look good not bad:eek:
[Xperia Z5 General] doministry:
Guys don't feed this Chord guy :)

It's another "informed" critic which doesn't know what he's talking about.

He just comes here for fun that's it.

I just hope he visits other phone's product forums and points really serious issues which iOS has recently. And hopefully discusses the crap Samsung does with software, memory managenent and terrible build quality?

As for Z5 camera, it is promising but requires some work.

Some 8mpx shots here are great also inow light.

They should be the same in full res. It's a work which should be done as it was done on Z2.

But hey we don't even have that many Z5 23mpx shots on Manual mode!

Z5 Compact ones on GSMarena look really good.

Hopefully I get my phone in the beginning of November.

I will test than.
[Xperia Z5 General] augie7107:
Entertaining thread but unreasonably condescending. I have no opinion on camera so haven't chimed in. Truly think all mobile phone cameras are obviously inferior to the real thing so I just use it for what it's worth. Thanks for bringing some objective thoughts without attacking those that don't agree with your opinion.
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
If those were taken from a DSLR, I'd put it up on Ebay fast. But if you mean less bad = good, then yes, I agree. xD
[Xperia Z5 General] adityaonline07:
hey its really bad to know about the camera of z5 xperia.Any software to update its cam clearity.
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
Yeah, Chord's not here to contribute to the technical discussion. It's good to have a difference of opinion, but not if that's all it is. I just wanna figure out what's good and bad about the camera. I hope to have one in the next few weeks to test. Fingers crossed!

To Tim: Thanks for your contributions, but just let the guy vent. He's had a bad experience with Sony, and wants the world to know. So do you find any difference between 8 MP SA vs. manual mode?
[Xperia Z5 General] King p1n:
Were not talking about DLSRS though...

If the 6P shots were the Z5 and the Z5's were the 6Ps there would be a total different tune in here LOL.
[Xperia Z5 General] xXFlippyXx:
First of: I'm a photographer noob. So SA is made for me

I've made a few pictures today I'd like to share. I don't know if those pictures are that spectacular but I like them. That picture from far above: it's about 800m straight to the gas station. Taken with 20mp SA

https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0B5_Ch_6XbhZcUkVGWjVycWZLZTg/edit
[Xperia Z5 General] chrillo:
Can't link images yet since I'm a new member but I think the quality of the pictures and video is quite good. Not DSLR-good, but hey it's a cell phone...
[Xperia Z5 General] lagittaja:
Your link doesn't work. Or, well, it does but you need permission to access it.

In the folder, click the share folder button, get shareable link, anyone with link can view.

E: Nevermind, works now..
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
Yeah, but I'd like to have usable night pics. If I went on vacation, those are not the kinda pics I'd want to show people. Probably use a mini-tripod, but that's a whole different set of test conditions.

However, if it's possible to take nice pics using Night mode without a tripod, like those taken by Timaustin2000, then it's worthwhile to show off. :)
[Xperia Z5 General] xXFlippyXx:
Yeah sorry did it already, forgot about that

Now it should be available
[Xperia Z5 General] TobbeSwe:
The Verge made av review of the Xperia Z5/Compact and he was impressed by the camera and after seeing his photos from the Z5 i must say that i´m impressed aswell..

He has taken low-light and daylight photos mostly in 8MP but he also has some 23MP photos aswell and they look really good from what i can see..

https://www.flickr.com/photos/vladsavov/sets/72157659861564436/

What is your take on them?
[Xperia Z5 General] Ben36:
What settings?

Sent from my Xperia z5 by Tapatalk
[Xperia Z5 General] lagittaja:
That image overlooking the town is great.

But the other two. Meh. Just something about the noise in those shots.

Next time you take some pictures, try and use it in 8MP mode instead of 20MP. Instead of shooting at 20MP, in 8MP mode you'll be supersampling the image from a much higher resolution. Better detail. Lower noise.

Here. I'll show you what I mean.

Took the DSC_5937 to Photoshop and did couple of things.

First, the original image is 20MP in 16:9 or in pixels, 5984x3366.

I selected a 634x634 area, above your child which shows the leaves and so on.

Copied that to a new document.

Then I scaled the original image down with resampling (bicubic sharper).

From 20MP (5984x3366) to roughly 8MP (3775x2123).

Then I selected a 400x400 area, roughly the same physical size but adjusted to the smaller image size.

And here's the result. Original on the right, downscaled/supersampled on the left.

Original displayed at 63,09% while the downscaled is displayed at 100%

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39370946/XDA/Xperia Z5/6309_100.PNG

Or the other way around. The original in 100% and downscaled at 158.5%

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39370946/XDA/Xperia Z5/158_100.PNG

What a difference eh. And I did not do anything else.
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
Thanks Joe. Encouragingly, the difference between SA and Manual is not nearly as wide as it is on the Z1 - Sony have clearly been doing some work, here. I'd still take it out of SA in murky lighting as it over-hits the ISO without doing the other adjustments needed to handle it (because it's not in a set "mode"). If you're, say, in your kitchen at night with the lights on, that'll come out better in Manual than SA. The second SA boots up a specific mode to handle the conditions, the advantage Manual has becomes much less evident. If you get that icon in the bottom right hand of the screen you can be reasonably confident that the result will be pretty good. It's when it doesn't lock a "Scene mode" that things go awry.

Also, it still does the pissing annoying thing of artificially softening faces, if it detects them. Ooooooooh, I hate that! If I'm taking pictures of people, Manual mode it is!

But Night Mode in SA is surprisingly good! As is "Low Light" mode. It's amazing, really, as on the Z1 those two were utter cack. If you want to really, REALLY ensure good night time results, though: spool up night mode from Manual and shoot it like that. You've gotta keep your hands very, very steady (in SA, it combines image stabilisation with night mode. In manual it doesn't. I'd take two or three shots, to make sure) but the results are well worth it.

Interestingly, and very usefully, Sony have added White Balance and exposure adjustment toggles to SA. When the camera gets the white balance wrong (which it does when you're shooting foliage in poor light, I've found) you can manually warm it up to a more natural hue without dropping out of SA. Handy.
[Xperia Z5 General] xXFlippyXx:
Thanks for the advice. I'll give it a try next time.
[Xperia Z5 General] joe_dude:
"The big reason for why you’d want to be an Xperia Z5 owner is the camera. I’m not going to waste time with any preamble: this is easily Sony’s best mobile camera and absolutely one of the best on any smartphone.... Sony defaults to capturing 8-megapixel stills in a 16:9 format, which use the full resolution of the imaging sensor to algorithmically improve the quality and cleanliness of the final, smaller image. Basically, shoot the lower resolution for the best possible quality or the full resolution for the most pixels."

Interesting, the reviewer (Vlad Savov) tested it using the 8 MP SA. His review reads like the opposite of some other reviews - slow performance, but excellent camera. The different reviews are all over the map! Hopefully, Marshmallow will clear up some of his perceived lagginess.

I think the pics look pretty good, but I'll leave it to the pros to voice their opinions.
[Xperia Z5 General] Timaustin2000:
FINALLY someone reviewing the phone gets it!!!! Halle-f******-lujha!!!

Shame about the rest of the review but he's right: it can stutter a bit and that's a pain. I fully expect updates to fix this but seriously, Sony, you shouldn't be releasing phone's without finalising and fully optimising the UI. You'll get these kinds of reviews every time.

For the record, I think Vlad is protesting a little too heavily on the lagginess - it's not too bad. That it's there at all is disappointing but it doesn't ruin the experience, really.