yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z5 General] N0whereMan:
Are you saying that Lumia 950 has a better sensor? I really don't think so. I don't think there is any significant difference between 950 and Z5 sensors. Both sensors are roughly the same size (Z5's is a tad bigger) and pixel size is the same at 1.1 micrometers.

I believe that kitchen photo quality is totally achievable with Z5's camera hardware. We just need few camera features to get there. We need to be able to shoot manually at 4 second shutter speeds, we need to be able to manually set ISO (to set it to ISO 50) and we need RAW-format. If Sony provided these camera software features, we most likely would be able achieve that quality level.

With the current Z5's camera software, of course we would have no chance to achieve that image quality in those conditions.
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Especially when pretty much no other mobilphone can even reach ISO 3200. Take for example the S6 series, they max out at ISO 1250 (no wonder why with such bad resolve quality especially with S6 series equipped with ISOCELL sensor) and has about the same detail quality Z1+ series has at ISO 2500-3200+ (and we aint even talking about macro shots in low light). A statement to the excellent low light cappabilities of the Z1+ line phones. :cool:
[Xperia Z5 General] Zratul:
To be honest, I also want more controls about exposure time.

Here are the kind of pictures dones on a LG G4 we will never be able to shoot with a Z5 and its current software:

www.flickr.com/photos/poodz/galleries/72157657007066406/

I know those are kind of specific uses but I think the G4 is amazing to be able to do some tasks which actually could only do with my D7000.

Wish my Z5 will be able to in some future
[Xperia Z5 General] Chirag22ster:
Xperia Z6?

Hello everyone. I was thinking of buying Xperia Z5. However given the negative reviews of z5 ownera on this forum, i feel it would be worth the while to wait for Z6, if its goibg to launch in Feb. Does anyone here have any confirmation regarding launch date so that i can wait for the launch n buy a z6 instead.
[Xperia Z5 General] doministry:
Nobody will give you that info. And there are no almost no rumours regarding it.

It may be autumn as well....

As for users, yes some are unhappy. And some are very happy, including me.
[Xperia Z5 General] N0whereMan:
I agree, LG G4 and V10 have some really nice camera software features. On a hardware level, there is no reason why Z5 couldn't have high quality 30 seconds exposures as well.

Of course night photography (meaning long, multi-second, exposures) is only one special type of photography. First and foremost i want the camera UI updated to the level of the competition. LG, Samsung, Microsoft and HTC have had intuitive camera UI's (for photographers) for some time now. It really is time for Sony to finally catch up. Hopefully we get a proper camera app with Marshmallow.

It's sad to see how few photography enthusiasts are criticizing Sony about this. I guess most enthusiasts have already made their conclusions about Sony's laziness to make a proper camera app, and therefore have chosen to buy a camera phone from one of the competitors.
[Xperia Z5 General] mmm286:
The camera is update for a short time. I doubt that they release new camera app

Enviado desde mi E5823 mediante Tapatalk
[Xperia Z5 General] N0whereMan:
I hope you are wrong. Day by day, i am starting to think i made mistake by going with Z5 Premium. Maybe i should have bought LG V10 like i was planning to. I'm just such a sucker for Z5's ultra wide-angle lens.

Although i like Z5 Premium's other features. I love being in the nature, and the waterproofness has been a very handy feature. No more need to put the phone in annoying plastic bags.
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
They can always add more options. As is now regarding user interface it is great. Though Camera 2.0 on my Z1 with Z5 camera framework (also 4k/Timeshift mod which add a couple of the Z2+ camera system files) allows me to chose ISO in manual at any resolution and SA I can use 15,5MP and 20,7MP with full scene support and ISO upto 6400 and it looks magnificent! Cant on the Z5c and Z5c uses to much blue tint when not necessary.

Edit: Seems also with those mods you need to change the resolution settings atleast once and/or wait for Android system to flush old cache files separate from dalvik and data as it improved even more then giving me color noise reduction at ISO 3200 which initially was absent and same with stock camera (ProCapture landscape scene mode, 20,7MP and low light = ISO 3200 + no color noise reduction). Now it has ?

So there is room for improvement. They should find the middleground regarding white balance as my Z1 pinpoints it perfectly or near perfectly aswell as exposure with the mods at under ISO 1000 and suffers little upto ISO 1600. Above it still performs good but looses precision. Far better than the Z5c though below ISO 1600 when I cross compared.

Point is they should look at all their algorithms, especially the Z3+ which has damn good ones. Find the balance for precision not just "Filter alike pretty" like Iphones do.
[Xperia Z5 General] N0whereMan:
EQ2000, what on earth are doing? Let me refresh you memory. Here is what you said a few pages back in this thread, after i criticized Z5 camera apps's features and user interface:

And now you are saying that "user interface is great". What are you on?
[Xperia Z5 General] gm007:
Lol this thread....

Anyway the camera is great but need to include more manual control and that's it.
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Hahaha yes but that is why the ignore lists exists so one only reads quality and on topic material ?

Anyway yeah pretty much that and some algorithm tweaks and they have it perfect. Else backporting Z6 libs, camera should unlock the beasts full potential as I reckon it will have same camera module or with some small tweaks like IMX220 vs IMX220S. ?
[Xperia Z5 General] N0whereMan:
Yes, manual controls and much better user interface.

And yes i agree, this is also a very entertaining thread :)
[Xperia Z5 General] Paninno12:
Colors are very accurate but it lacks of sharpness when zooming. Video recording is awesome but the microphone isn't.
[Xperia Z5 General] doministry:
The microphone is really great on Z5.
[Xperia Z5 General] swooc:
no.
[Xperia Z5 General] N0whereMan:
Ok, then i don't understand what you where trying to say.

Let's break this down.

The exposure triangle in that kitchen picture is:

Shutter speed: 4 seconds

ISO value: ISO 50

Aperture: F1.9 (which is practically identical to F2.0 on Z5)

At full resolution (20MP/23MP mode) on Z5, it is impossible to get that high exposure, even if ISO is boosted to the maximum. In the "manual mode" maximum exposure is 1/8s and ISO 800. In SA mode maximum exposure is 1/16s and ISO 1600. To get to that Lumia 950 exposure, at 1/8s shutter speed, ISO would have to be ISO 1600.

In 8MP mode, without a doubt the highest image quality is achieved by Night scene mode. In Night scene mode the maximum exposure is 1s and ISO 250. Which is just enough for the target exposure. The target exposure with 1s shutter speed would be achieved by ISO 200.

Of course one can go full retard (in terms of image quality) in 8MP mode, by using higher ISO values. There is no point doing this, if image quality is a factor.
[Xperia Z5 General] OCedHrt:
I've thought about this but I got one month left before I can switch on JUMP so will decide then. I have no issues with the camera app, just other apps that can use the camera to attach photos or videos.
[Xperia Z5 General] TheEndHK:
lol plz don't bump up real old threads, that my reply was a couple of months ago. 3rd party app usually not as good as stock especially messaging apps you are using to take photo, don't think the performance will be as nice as stock camera.
[Xperia Z5 General] thesebastian:
I think that some of them are a bit blurry in 100% size.

Try setting the camera at 2MP.

I got best results at 2MP (see this topic), unfortunately 2MP only works for a thumbnail :(

But If I compare 8MP 16:9 (Z5 Compact) vs 6MP 16:9 (my previous 2013 phone with HDR+), the difference in quality is huge... The Z5 camera firmware needs to be polished at 8MP and 20/23MP seriously.
[Xperia Z5 General] swooc:
^it's the shallow depth of field. if you look at the focused point areas, it's quite sharp (though still a little soft in my opinion).
[Xperia Z5 General] rajkant1984:
Let me tryout. I will revert back asap
[Xperia Z5 General] N0whereMan:
That's the most absurd claim since EQ2000 stated that Z1+ cameras can have, quote, "magnificent" image quality at ISO 6400, on the previous page.

I believe your comment is just sarcasm. Showing us low-light high ISO pictures which have progressively more camera shake as resolution is increased.

Good one. Funny. I agree that the discussion about Z5's image quality has reached extreme absurdity. Some claim that Z5 has a magical sensor and the image quality rivals DSLRs. Others claim Z5 pictures have better image quality when downsized to 2 megapixels.
[Xperia Z5 General] thesebastian:
Yeah just focus on the 2nd sample (where the 3 photos are still) and compare the text.

I think this lense is capable of doing much more than what is actually doing. (Because the videos at 1080@60fps are really great)

For me...8MP or 20MP (16:9) photos are currently like 3-4MP photos upscaled to 3840x2160 or 5984x3366. Because I was getting better details at 6MP with my previous phone.

If we compare photos in thumbnail view, we can't detect the true quality of the picture.

It needs more polish in the firmware. I bet that if you give this phone to Google as a Nexus they could create an incredible camera like the one in the 5X or the 6P.

Sent from my E5823
[Xperia Z5 General] N0whereMan:
I have a hard time taking you seriously. I still think you are being sarcastic.

At full resolution in good light, Z5 quite clearly outperforms the current competition (S6, 6S, G4 and 6P/5X) in terms of retrieved detail (texture exluded.)

What was your previous phone?
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Actually the Z5 walks all over the 5X and 6P especially in low light while not looking like a cheap digital camera shot with the over done post-proccessing 5X and 6P does.

http://www.manilashaker.com/sony-xp...v10-galaxy-note-5-nexus-6p-camera-comparison/
[Xperia Z5 General] frankm87:
Well, apart from this review and DxO mark, I don't see any other review saying the Z5 walks all over the others. Quite the opposite to be honest.

Also, I just looked at the pics you posted [MENTION=6922850]EQ2000[/MENTION], comparing the Z1 and the Z5:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=65151688&postcount=185

and the verdict for me is: the Z5 performs really badly in terms of detail. I invite all people here to click on the provided link.

I have one question regarding the "edge blurriness" that is often observed. Is it due to areas being out of focus?

In a shop this morning, I did the following:

- took a pic of an object, perfectly centered in front of the camera. Everything around the object being much further away, out of focus.

- took another pic of the same object, after moving the camera to the right, that is, so that the object now is on the left of the screen, and most of the right part of the pic is out of focus. Also, I forced focus the object on the left.

Then compared both pics, well, only the part that has the object.

If the object is identical in both cases, it means the camera lens's quality is the same everywhere.

If the object is a bit more blurry when shot on the left side of the screen/lens/camera, it means the lens has lower quality on the edges.

I did see a difference. Do you guys see a difference?

Obviously, I couldn't take the device home with me. (Not yet, at least, as I want to buy the phone to replace my digital camera)

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 PM ----------

How do you explain the huge difference between the 2MP, 8MP and 20MP shots?

My interpretation: there is so much noise that is captured at 20MP, that post processing can only produce a sharp picture when having a very high per-pixel sample count.

Every time somebody compares a 20MP vs a 8MP shot with the Z5, there is a large difference with the sharpness, *and* still room for improvement.

Here what I see is that the 2MP is the most sharp.

NB: forgot to say that my current phone is the S5 Mini. Sure has less accurate colours than the Z5, but the sharpness is there. And there is no noise.
[Xperia Z5 General] DeathStroke:
I was also thinking that camera is just placed as 23 MP but nothing like that inside, Also one of my friend took some pictures with his LG G2, believe me they were more clear when you even zoom than my Z5(low light).

Then i did some research on Internet and also learned many valid settings here. I'm able to capture good pics now. The only thing bothering me is that when I zoom the pictures taken, image get distorted, blurry,noisy.

Without zoom everything seems to be great but in depth it's not.

I really need some good tips. Because I know Z5 have good camera, but need some settings to adjusted for a type of shot. I can't just loose the fight from LG G2 which I don't even started.
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
Actually it is 25MP in reality but locked to 23MP for 4:3 and 20MP for 16:9. Unless you compare on the same screen with same photoalbum app, editor or similar it is pointless as most photo albums dont show full resolution especially not going over 12/16MP and they dont all zoom in equally. Some do 100% some do 200%.. some do 300% and how it looks is relative to the screen resolution and display quality.

http://www.gsmarena.com/sonys_new_z...se_a_custom_25mp_camera_sensor-blog-13806.php
[Xperia Z5 General] N0whereMan:
Z5 doesn't walk all over the competition, and DxOMark doesn't claim that. I urge you to read the DxOMark test in detail. And that manilashaker review is mostly nonsense.

In terms of retrieved overall detail in good light, Z5 does quite clearly beat competition. Z5 has a bigger sensor than most of the current competition. So it's only logical that Z5 will outperform them. Only 6P (5X) has as big sensor, but on those phones have half the resolution as Z5, so 6P don't resolve as much detail in good light. In turn, 6P does perform slightly better in low-light conditions (just like DxOMark says), because it has bigger pixels. The smaller sensor competitors (6S+, G4, S6) have OIS which helps them perform better in low-light. Lumia 950 has almost as big sensor as Z5 and 6P, and on top of that 950 has high resolution sensor and OIS. I'm looking forward of DxOMark testing 950, it can potentially get a high score, especially in photo mode.

No. Corner softness ("edge blurriness") has nothing to do with focus. Z5 has a bright ultra wide-angle lens, and one feature of that kind of lens is corner softness. The corners are not out of focus. The corners have reduced optical performance. If you want to avoid corner softness, Z5 and its ultra wide-angle lens is NOT for you. The competitors are better in this regard.

Yes in those examples 2MP images are the sharpest. Like i already said in my previous post, in those examples there is progressively more and more camera shake as resolution increased. That softness in 8MP and 20MP has nothing to do with noise reduction. It's nothing but camera shake. I still suspect that sebastian is being sarcastic.

S5 Mini's camera has much narrower field of view than Z5. Therefore, in terms of optical resolution, S5 Mini will most likely outperform Z5. It would be a miracle if it didn't.
[Xperia Z5 General] frankm87:
I think we are on the same line on all aspects.

---------- Post added at 08:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:04 PM ----------

That's the last bit I cannot explain.

The camera hardware and software can make good pics, with detail. Texture detail is poor.

Shall I conclude the hardware is poor in terms of detail (ouch, if this is the case) and postprocessing is awesome? (of course the hardware is good regarding color accuracy, not talking about this).

Surely, we all notice this issue. This can't be something we invent.
[Xperia Z5 General] N0whereMan:
Until about a year ago, smartphones had much narrower field of views. Like S5 Mini, LG G2 will most likely outperform Z5 in terms of optical resolution.

If you want to objectively compare retrieved detail levels in images (taken with G2 and Z5), you need to pick an object to be photographed. Make sure the object covers the same portion of the picture on BOTH cameras. This means that with Z5 you need to get much closer to the object. And remember, you can't compare anything else in the pictures, only the chosen object. Also, the object cannot have a lot depth to it.

---------- Post added at 09:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------

I agree that Z5 has relatively poor texture details. I believe it's only a matter of Sony's post processing. I don't see how the hardware could be at fault, because otherwise detail levels are high.

Poor texture details have never bothered me in real-life photos, so this is not a big problem for me.
[Xperia Z5 General] frankm87:
I am a bit familiar with image processing, my skill is not stratospheric, but this is not an unknown field to me.

In terms of probability, there are more chances that the sensor does have only moderate performance, and then that details are enhanced by good software.

Texture details are subtle, and cannot be recovered - most likely. You can push the sharpening algorithm further, but it will blow up already-exisiting details, so it's a no-go. Sharpening is global. There is no way out: lack of texture detail probably reveals the modest hardware performance.

As for the wide angle lens, I have seen on the web that lenses that you can buy for regular cameras can be blurry on the edges sometimes, but not always. Sometimes it is quite perfect. But I don't know for smartphones, because everything is so, so small, starting with the lens.

And finally, I don't know any other (even recent) smartphone with a wide angle lens.
[Xperia Z5 General] TheEndHK:
Sony post-processing generally failed to maintain small fine details plus many noises there, that's almost all agreed on net and all forum(except this thread on earth). While excluding the texture level details, Sony is doing great in bigger parts so you see without zooming the photo is all good.

I've also got a S6 other than my Z5c/Z1c. S6 way better to keep small details whereas bigger size details may a bit behind Z5c/Z1c but overall S6 done a better job to balance the whole imaging in my opinions. I think it is just the exactly same case happened on LG and Iphone too.

If you just sharing the photo on net, I think Sony style is more preferable but if you want to load it into photoshop to do seriously modifying or keep zooming it on your screen. It definitely is not your choice.

Indeed, I always like the white balance on Sony, better than all others. That's the main reason I pick Sony.
[Xperia Z5 General] N0whereMan:
I don't see any sign of a weak sensor in Z5 images. Z5 images have high detail levels when the photographed object has mid to high contrast levels. Therefore the lens is also sharp. Image processing can't create details out of nothing. Skillful image processing can only give an illusion of high level of detail.

What i see as a possibility from hardware perspective, Z5's lens can have inherently low contrast. That would explain the low quality textures. Textures by nature have very low contrast. So low contrast lens naturally would struggle with low contrast objects, such as textures.

Z5's ultra wide-angle lens is completely unique in smartphone world. Z5 lens's brightness at F2.0 is very unique even in the camera world. For example Canon and Nikon, which have the most extensive lens collections in the world for DSLR, do not offer this bright ultra wide-angle lenses (brightest available are F2.8). The most likely reason for this is the corner softness that bright ultra wide angle lenses have by nature. Sigma has a 20mm F1.8 lens, which has even softer corners wide open than Z5. Sigma has recently released a new 20mm F1.4 lens which does seem to have rather good performance even wide open. So lens technology is starting to address this problem.

---------- Post added at 06:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 AM ----------

I mostly disagree.

Overall Z5 maintains details better than the competition. Only low contrast texture details are somewhat lacking. Sony's approach to post-processing is more about detail preservation than the competition. That's why Z5 has more noise in the images. That's why Z5 pictures look like "watercolor" paintings.

For example, Samsung's (S6) post-processing is more about reducing noise. In the process, details will get lost. After aggressive noise reduction, Samsung's algorithms oversharpen the image. This gives an illusion of noise free and high detail image. But it's only an illusion.

Most people like Samsung's approach more. Most people like noise free and sharp images more than noisy less sharp images. Even when the noisier and less sharp image has more actual details preserved.

Sony's post-processing is less aggressive compared to Samsung, and therefore Sony's JPEGs are better suited for post-processing in Photoshop.

Note 4, Galaxy S5, LG G2 and other phone cameras released over a year ago had a much narrower field of view. That's why those phones have better optical resolution than Z5. Many people do not understand what narrower field of view implies. So they neglect to take FOV in to consideration in comparisons. Therefore many people come to wrong conclusions about detail levels.

In terms of optical resolution, Z5 does not deliver. It isn't supposed to.
[Xperia Z5 General] DeathStroke:
Thanks all for clearing the concepts about Z5 camera. This thread is great.

Learned many good things here. So next time someone wants to do the comparison, I'll put two pictures in a same app and will do the comparison. That will be justice I think.
[Xperia Z5 General] thesebastian:
- That's the main issue I have with this phone camera. When I see the real size of any picture [ Open picture in a PC using an app like "Windows Photo Viewer" --> Actual Size (Ctrl + Alt + 0) ] I find my 8MP pictures much more distorted than my previous phone pictures. (And the fact that I'm getting same or less details at 8MP than at 23MP, is just another cause). I don't care If we have 25MP "hardware" sensor if we can't appreciate the difference between 8MP and 20MP!

Anyway, I think this issue can be fixed with a firmware update, maybe increasing the time to take a picture or to focus, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure is software (firmware) related.

- The second thing I don't like ( I'd say it's more hardware related). Is the minimum focus distance, my previous phone used to have like 60mm, this one have 120mm. So it's difficult to take a close-up filling the entire photo with an object, If I need to increase the distance up to 12cm the objects loses a lot of details (and I don't like to use digital zoom, tried it many times but I didn't like the results). (This is more a lesser issue to me, not critical, but it still counts)

- Regarding the difference between 2MP / 8MP / 20/23MP (I wasn't being sarcastic. ). You all can do the test, pickup a tripod (if you want 99% equal samples, so that is not an excuse anymore) and then submit the full resolution pictures to google drive. In my results I get better details at lower resolution.
[Xperia Z5 General] EQ2000:
It sure can be since the algorithms from camera library and some framework settings are hindering it from being tapped to its full potential. Also they should allow for superior auto mode at 23MP with full auto scene support. Tge Z1+ phones can do ISO 6400-12800 att full resolution and quality is equal as in SA 8MP except quite a lot sharper and more detail clarity.

Here you can see the Z1 with camera mods vs Z5 in low light. The difference is pronounced and the Z1 easily outdoes the Z5c.

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=65151688&postcount=185

Obviously the Z5 camera is technically superior but they are just not tapping it all right now.