yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cb474:
I know. I swore I wouldn't get an 810 phone. But I'm still on the Nexus 4, so I'm also feeling like it's really time for an upgrade. I'd be okay with the 3rd Gen Moto X, but it won't work with T-Mobile wifi call and won't cover LTE 12, so I just don't want that. I passed on the Nexus 6 because it was just too huge. The 6P seems a little more manageable size wise. But maybe I should just get a Nexus 6 now that they're cheap. ArsTechnica has shown that once the 810 starts throttling it's slower (much slower) than the 805 in the Nexus 6.

I didn't know about the 620. I suppose Google feels that have to put the latest greatest Snapdragon in every new Nexus phone as they have always done, at least recently. I also wonder if the 620 covers all the radios and other features of the 810? I'm assuming the reason Google went with the 810 is because it has a lot of other features they want (for example it can handle the slow motion video that the 808 can't do on the 5X, for some reason that I think does not have to do with the CPU per se). People forget that these are chipsets, that include radios and GPUs and lots of features, not just the CPU. So the 810 perhaps is more fully featured than the 620 in some ways, since it's intended for midrange devices. I don't know.

I hate to wait another year for the next Nexus phones. And somehow I'm sure they will also disappoint. Google seems to always fall short in some way. They add features I want and then do something I just can't stand. The Nexus 6 is really the closest they've come to having all the things I really care about, especially Motorola's very good four microphone noise cancellaiton (the Qualcomm Fluence noise cancellation in the Nexus 4 and 5 is just crappy, compared to the incredibly good Audience chip in the original Nexus One). But as I said, it was hard to wrap my head (and hand) around how enormous that device was.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] gqukyo:
the benchmarks leaked for the 620 doesn't show what res the device had and since it's a mid-range soc, doubt it was higher than 1080p. Not saying it wouldn't be able to but the scores should change if the res was higher. Would probably be lower.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] CoNsPiRiSiZe:
Anything will be a cooler phone than my LG G3... It's one of the only two gripes I have with this phone... It gets HOT! To the point where I have to set it down in order to not burn my hands.... That's the 801, however and I am sorely looking forward to getting this N6P.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cb474:
Remember, the problem with the 810 is not that it gets so hot that you can't hold it. The problem is that, because it wants to overheat after ten minutes of heavy use, it has to automatically throttle itself. The results is that when running cold it is a powerful CPU. But as soon as it heats up it throttles (before going thermonuclear) and slows to almost half the speed and much slower than lesser and older chipsets like the 808, 805, 801.

So it's not going to be too hot to hold. It's going to be slow in order to avoid getting too hot to hold.

Check out ArsTechnica's analysis: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/04/in-depth-with-the-snapdragon-810s-heat-problems/
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Aridon:
https://www.androidpit.com/snapdragon-810-vs-808-is-8-cores-really-better-than-6

810 heat and throttling not a big issue
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Pilz:
That's because the M9 runs at 1.5ghz instead of the full 2.0ghz. I hope the Nexus 6P can run at 2.0ghz without throttling. I can run my Nexus 6 overclocked to 3.0ghz and it ain't throttle for at least 2 benchmark tests and that's with a 300mhz overclock. The phone died her noticeably hotter but I've even pushed it to 3.1ghz and only ever had 1 thermal shutdown on it while testing
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Pilz:
Double post
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Xileforce:
I was looking purely at the specs, not the leaked benchmarks. The 620 has more modern cores. As for the rest of it though, I don't know.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cb474:
I would take that Android Pit analysis with a huge grain of salt. It's not very well done and seems to be designed to make excuses for the 810.

First of all, people are still missing the point if they think heat is directly an issue with the 810. The 810 does not get hotter than other Snapdragon processors (as I said above) precisely because the 810 throttles itself to avoid overheating. So no one is claiming it will be hotter to the touch. Instead, avoiding overheaing is the cause of the throttling and that's the issue.

Second, the ArsTechnica analysis of the 810 that I link to above if far more technical and careful than Android Pit. They clearly show that throttling is a real issue. At first, when running cold and before throttling has started the 810 is powerful, but once it heats up and has to throttle to avoid overheating it slows down to a point where it significantly underperforms even older processors like the 805 and 801, to say nothing of the 808. It is likely that Android Pit missed this, because their tests are fairly off the cuff and not very scientific, so they probably were only capturing the initial "cold" performance of the 810.

Third, there is a lot of talk about 810 v2.1, as if v2.1 is a newer version of the 810 that "solves" the issue. But v2.1 is not new and is what has shipped in all the phones all year, like the M9. It does "solve" the problem in the sense that it doesn't overheat, but the solution is the throttling, causing underperformance once the CPU warms up. (See: http://pocketnow.com/2015/07/15/snapdragon-810-v2-1-2)

Fourth, tests of the OnePlus 2, a new phone with the 810, also clearly show the effect of the throttling on performance. ArsTechnica provides charts comparing it to other phones and showing both its cold and warm performance separately. You can see that as soon as it warms up its performances is drastically affected, dropping by almost 50%. In many tests it radically underperforms a phone like the LG G4 with the 808. (See: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...s-the-wrong-corners-to-stand-out-on-a-budget/)

So people can put their heads in the sand about it, but the throttling issue with the 810 (to prevent overheating) is real and not going away. It will be the case with the Nexus 6P. There is no magical new version of the 810 out there, including for the 6P. There are lots of great things about the Nexus 6P. And the 810 may be fine for most people's purposes. But it is a hobbled chipset and may affect heavy gamers and others who put high CPU load demands on their phone.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] SUPERUSER:
So this is just the same as with the macbook pro. They claim to be quick and powerful. But as soon as the temps rises the gpu is underclocked to 400mHz and the cpu to 1.2GHz. I'm not going to go in to why this is.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-Retina-15-Mid-2015-Review.144402.0.html

Anyway despite this issue people and reviewers still try to convince the audience that the "problem" has been taken cared off..

BUT where is the fact? Where is the transparence. Where is the datasheet?

I came as close as this to find a documentation

https://createpoint.qti.qualcomm.com/dashboard/public/landing

But you are not allowed to register. There is not a single public datasheet available. But behind this site is all the documentation and proof if there actually IS a v2.1 and v2.2.. and if there exists a revision history.

Snapdragon 810
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Agent 47:
Sony is not stupid that could have used older model of 810 in Z5.

It looks like those still struggling with the problem of heat to 810 although those have used dual heat pipes and thermal paste.

Snapdragon 810 SoC making Sony Xperia Z5 Compact owners sweat with overheating issue
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] gqukyo:
Ah like comparing a newer gen Celeron with previous gen Pentiums.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] tokenbest:
anyone else worried now? It seems that z5 using 810 has got touch screen issues - http://www.phonearena.com/news/Snap...t-owners-sweat-with-overheating-issue_id74367

Really hoping it won't affect the nexus 6p...
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Xileforce:
This exactly. The only thing we can hope is that they have done as good a job as possible cooling the thing. Sony definitely did a better job in the z5 than in the z3+ for instance. Lol that thermal image of the htc m9 xD
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Elnrik:
As the devil's advocate... You post many a strong argument, but your last paragraph killed it for me. Those statements are made as if they are facts of the N6P, and yet no one has a device in hand yet. No reviews or analysis to confirm your statements. The quantitative data is missing. Better to have stated your final stance as a hypothesis than sophism. For example: " Due to the thermal performance issues of previous platforms which run this chip, and unless Huawei has taken drastic steps to dissuade thermal throttling, the chances are good that running benchmarks, extremely taxing 3D games, modeling the geophysics of all of California, and playing Thermonuclear Warfare (how about a nice game of chess, Dr. Falkin) may adversely affect the performance of your device.”

Personally, when my N6p gets here, I'm going to slap a WOPR sticker on it and go see if I can nuke Iran! Hell yeah!
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Elnrik:
1). Uhhhh... Yeah, I was joking around. :)

2). It's not wishful at all. I really think I can start world war 3 with a Nexus 6P. (P = Plutonium) Wish me luck!

Seriously though, we get your point. When the chip throttles, performance drops. :)

But... If the chip never gets too hot, it won't throttle.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cb474:
Looking at your post it sure seems like everything you said is serious, except the last comments about nuclear war that were obviously a joke.

And you do seem to still be insisting that maybe there's some magical way the chip won't get hot. So I still think there's some wishful thinking going on here.

The chip gets hot. That's the design flaw and it's not going to change. But there are different ways to mitigate this. What seems to be the good way is to throttle it to prevent overheating. Others, like Sony have tried to come up with fancy ways to dissipate the heat so that it doesn't have to throttle. But from one of the article's posted above, that solution seems to have failed and lead to sluggish behavior and requiring reboots. That seems worse than throttling.

So if you're imagining that somehow the chip won't get hot and need to throttle, it's still wishful thinking. The heat is the intrinsic design flaw. What is done to mitigate it is the only issue.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] galaxys:
All those that can't handle the heat, then get out of the kitchen or move to Antarctica! :D

For me this is going to be one of the "coolest" devices around! :cool:
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] LNJ:
Pretty sad that Qualcomm dropped the ball this year!

Hopefully they redeem themselves with the 820.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fatboypup:
The overheating one :(
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonny_mako:
Reports of Z5 compact having issues was with video recording 1080p60fps. If throttling in fact affects the camera, that would be well within how most people would use their phones. I'll give the benefit of doubt here to the assumption that most people will probably not be recording in 4k all the time. But still with the camera on 6p being one of its main selling points, it would be unfortunate if heat issues adversely affect the camera. Hope this is not the case. Will have to wait and see.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cb474:
Ah, well, if that's the case then I guess there is a least one more everyday possible use that could be an issue. And of couse, for many people gaming is a normal everyday thing to do.

It seems best to wait for reviews of the 6P, before getting one.

When I engage in wishful thinking, I fantasize that once the 820 hits the market, Google will release an updated version of the 6P with the 820. But that seems highly improbably. They'll probably just wait for the next Nexus device (at which point the 830 will be on the horizon).

---------- Post added at 12:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------

The 820 should be fine. Qualcomm did something they don't normally do with the 810 and that led to its problems.

What happened was Apple hit the market with a 64 bit chipset. And Samsung (I believe) already had one too. This was going to leave Qualcomm as the only one without a 64 bit chipset on the market for a year, since it wasn't planned until the 820. So instead of custom designing the cores in the 810, as Qualcomm usually does, they used "off the shelf" cores. These cores did not intergrate well into the chipset and this caused the overheating.

With the 820 Qualcomm has returned to its usual design process, with custom cores, so there is no reason to assume it won't be fine. ArsTechnica explains all of this in their article on the 810 overheating issues, linked to in one of my posts above.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prestige2:
Did anybody see this vid from Android Developers channel : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9tw5ypqEN0

He say SD810 "V3" .. not v2.1. Is it a mistake ?!
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] richie.slayer:
Good find, let me hold to hope for another day.

Though I'm sure it's the snapdragon 810 v2.1, hope I'm wrong!

My oneplus two used to heat up no matter what the reviews say.

edit-nope most of them say he misspoke. SD 810 v2.1 smh
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ambervals6:
You guys realize hardware is the same, they simply changes cpu scaling and similar crap and call it v1 v2 v3

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Chilidog:
Looks like the Z5 compact overheating problem was fake

http://www.mobipicker.com/xperia-z5-compact-heats-like-a-toaster-due-to-sd810/
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] slickromeo:
we're all going back and forth, when what we all really care about is this... When i use this phone in my day-to-day, normal, average use... will it be warm/hot in my hand... If the answer is no, then we all win !
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Xileforce:
Idk if that's true. While they did bump the gpu frequency 30mhz. They also did other things like greatly improved the memory bandwidth as well. The scaling seems to me would be kernel side anyways and not need a hardware revision
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonny_mako:
Yes, that one was fake. But this one is what is worrying:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Va_5QR-tE
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mosincredible:
And this one is the opposite of that.

https://youtu.be/1BfBakhs8To

We'll just have to see when this phone is released.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Chilidog:
The 6p is a lot bigger and made of aluminum so it would never get that hot anyway
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] LNJ:
You're going to feel the heat more on the aluminium phone as opposed to a glass backed one all things being equal!
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Chilidog:
Ya that's probably right but I'm not that worried about it I'll have a case on too
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] LNJ:
Bad idea to trap the heat if it does actually heat up!

Cases disrupt the dissipation of heat.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Chilidog:
If it's that bad I'll just simply return it
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] LNJ:
Personally I think Huawei would have done whatever Sony has done to reduce the heat.

I don't think Google would want to be the laughing stock for having a frying pan as a Nexus!
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Chilidog:
Same here, I was gonna wait untill I saw a teardown video to see if it had heats pipes or something but I just assumed they did what needed to be done
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Smallsmx3:
So if it's v3 why was it such a secret and why isn't there any info on it? I get it's just software revisions but I can't imagine Google would release a phone with major issues. Most people that buy a GS6 don't know any better when their device is lagging like crazy but most nexus owners notice the slightest bit and raise hell
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ambervals6:
Lol google doesn't give a single ****. And they have done it before. Nexus 4 would throttle like crazy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] chrizzle30:
Not to heap a bunch of fuel to the fire and all, but all the arguing and folks that can seem to see the future doom of this phone are missing one thing...

Android 6.0 and firmware.

I am not saying that there is some miracle piece of code that is going to magically fix the chip's problems, however, it plays a huge, huge role. Google has stated they are going for performance and battery life. It can and should make a difference.

Am I holding out hope? Of course I am. I am a huge fan of all the Nexus phones, even with their flaws, but point out one phone that doesn't have a flaw.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] regalpimpin:
You keep saying this.. but as someone who had an 810 device for roughly 4-5 months. It's a real issue. It's not that the phone will get hot. It won't really be any worse then any other mobile device these days on heat. Although, you returned your pure for heat issues? That may have been a mistake, it will get hotter then that.

The issue with the 810 is that it throttles itself so bad to not get hot, that you get screen stutters, and dropped frames in every little thing you do. If I use an htc m8, and i open a bunch of apps, and then pull up recents and start swiping them away it's smooth. If I try doing that with an 810 device, it's a horribly janky experience. And if the device can't even perform these day to day operations smoothly, benchmarks don't matter.

I swore off the 810 after doing carrier testing, and I'm using an 808 device now and it is night and day difference. Maybe Marshmallow will address this differently, but otherwise good luck to you all.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Elnrik:
I believe it is illegal in at least 47 states to kick a dead horse as many times as has been done in this thread.

The one undeniable fact that cannot be argued is that we won't know if it will be an issue, or to what extent, until we get the devices IN HAND... preferably with a detailed teardown done. Present your "but, other 810 devices do this" argument as much as you want. The N6P is not a M9, OnePlus 2, etc. It is engineered / built differently. It will perform differently.

If you're skeptical, don't buy it yet. If you're ok being an early adopter, with all the risks that go with it, then get it. Simple as that.

The OPs question was answered already. 810 v2.ican'tevenrememberanymore. For sanity's sake, stop already.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Batfink33:
I think it may be an issue. The 810 Is in general,a hot throttling piece of ****. I don't see anything different in the N6P to suggest it won't be.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonny_mako:
Anyone know how Huawei engineer their phones to handle cooling. In other news Microsoft just announced the Lumia 950XL with SD810 which is liquid cooled. Thats right folks LIQUID cooling in a phone!
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cb474:
I really think this logic, which others have promulgated as well, is bogus. The chipset has an intrinsic design flaw. It has shown up as an issue one way or another not in some other phones, but in every other phone that has used the 810. Excpecting the flaw not to show up in the 6P is like oft quoted definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting it to be different the next time.

When all evidence points in one direction, saying, "But this time will be different!", is magical thinking.

The question with the 6P is not whether the 810 will have an overheating issue (since that is an intrinsic hardware design flaw that cannot be overcome by the design of a phone or firmware). The question is how will the 6P handle the overheating? Will it try to dissapate heat more effectively, like the Z5, so the processor doesn't have to throttle as much? Will that work? (The Z5 has yet to be really tested on this account.) Will it just throttle a lot? Will it throttle less, but be hot to the touch? Different companies have handled the flaw better than others, but everyone who uses the 810 gets the flaw. So there's going to be something, heat or throttling. And then there is a question of how much throttling will affect phone performance. (Don't expect the 810 in the 6P to outperform the 808 or 805 or even 801, in most respects, it just won't. But it might peform okay, without heat and stuttering effects.)

Obviously, the best strategy is to wait and not buy the phone until it has been reviewed. Not to see if there will be no issue with the 810, but to see how the issue is handled.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Batfink33:
Now that is novel and it's what the 810 needs, a real cooling system (if indeed the liquid cooling works) as it's pretty flawed. I really hope Huawei have worked this out and not just stuck it in like many other companies, just look at all the Z5 overheating problems that are surfacing and even Sony gave tried to fix the heat issue through its design.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ambervals6:
Sure...you compare cheap Chinese company to a giant like Microsoft...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Elnrik:
*Sigh*

Stop and re-read my post. Think about it.

I'm arguing that with the distinct lack of hard facts we cannot know for sure how the phone will perform.

You're arguing that probability and speculation are as good as hard fact, so the phone will suck @$$.

Which method of reasoning is bogus?
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] LNJ:
What makes you think Huawei is cheap? They make some very well crafted premium hardware like Oppo.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ambervals6:
Is chinese...what do you expect. 2 years ago their phones wouldn't cost more than $300. While now, these noobs go around and talk about no brainer price for Huawei crap. If you want premium go with HTC or Samsung, then talk to me about real premium. If Google picked HTC or Samsung to make their nexus, this phone would be a beast. Instead they always pick second hand manufacturers and second hand parts. Google doesn't care about a premium device. All they care about is to make a device that gets used by 1M people max and this way their engineers have enough feedback to keep working on their software. If you notice, only cpu is what Google cares about when building their nexus. The rest, camera, screen and audio quality are just average because their code only relates to system and system performance is cpu/kernel related. That is enough for Google :)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Elnrik:
That's as biased of an opinion as I think I've ever seen. You're entitled to it though. Have fun.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mosincredible:
amberval has been running around the 6P forum with nothing but negative opinions of the phone. No idea why they are even here honestly. Pay them no mind.
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Tehpdub:
Then the phone would cost more. I have a S6 now and it has an awesome screen and camera, but TW just ruins it, my phone lags, touch screen sometime unresponsive oh did i mention locked bootloader and pretty much unrootable. I will sacrifice my Samsung S6 anyday for the Huawei Nexus 6p FROST!!!!!
[Nexus 6P Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Aridon:
Yeah Microsoft is a real giant. Forced to give away a PC operating system after a flawed shot on their last attempt and sitting at what sub 1% now for phone market share. Also lost a significant portion of their US market share on the Xbone to Sony.

If microsoft was a teenage boy they'd screw up a wet dream.