yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] badbert:
We are using code that was written by an Employee of Microsoft. That code was written for the "Soul" (forgive the pun) purpose of being distributed by Microsoft, so that Bill Gates can add another zero to his assets.

Did any of us "Pay" Microsoft for this code? NO

Do any of us (other than InGeNetIcs) have written authorization to use this code? NO

to modify this code? NO

So any person using this code, is in violation of copyright laws, and can be tried and convicted in a court of Law. End of discussion.

On another note. I am all for freedom of speech, and freedom of religion.

But... There used to be a Beautiful statue of The Virgin Mother. Standing at the gates of a park here in Michigan. The parks name is "Camp Dearborn". In case any of you do not know, Dearborn is home to the largest population of Muslim Arab Immigrants in the USA. Like I said, there "used to be", the Muslims found it to be offensive to them. So it was removed.

Please I really like this forum, I do not want it, or any part of it, removed. Because someone (I did not use any names) might find a number, or a violation of a copyright law offensive. To put things in perspective, copyright laws were written in the 18th century, to protect "Player Piano" paper feeds from being copied. This gave birth to musicians being able to copyright the assembly of a series of musical notes and words, better known as music. Just think you can use the same notes, or the same words. But if you arrange them in the same way as they did it is illegal. Watch any old movie earlier than the 19th century and you will see that musicians were not famous, or rich, they were called Traveling Minstrels, or Bards. They sang for their food and maybe a place to sleep.

This is all I will say about this matter, I will not be provoked, and I will not respond to Flamers. I have used my right to freedom of speech, and I will also use my right not to listen and ignore. I think that if we all ignored the offensive people or numbers, they might just slip away into oblivion. If no one listens to their speech, they will go elsewhere to find someone who will listen. Flaming them just keeps them around.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] WheresWaldo:
One very important fact you are all forgetting. Nothing in this world is free. While there may be things that have no price, they are far from free. In the case of HTC they are not providing a free upgrade to WM6, they are meeting their contractural agreements with their partners by providing an upgrade to WM6 at no cost. The Carrier can then choose to pass on those cost savings on to their customers or not. It is never a question of whether or not it was free or has no cost. It simply does not belong to you and yet you are taking it, without permission and using it. While pirating might imply that there is financial loss attached to it, and no financial loss means you are not pirates, you are taking something that does not belong to you for your personal use and that is stealing. You can rationalize it all you want but it is what it is!

You cannot choose which laws you want to obey simply based on the idea that you like some and dislike others, you are either law-abiding or not. Please do not try to disguise this thread as a technical discussion aboujt something you already know the answer to and are just seeking a way to rationalize your behavior.

That said, I will continue to use any rom that is made available here that will allow me to continue to add functionality and also allow me to stay productive with my now outdated Cingular 8125.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] character:
piracy?

how can you pirate something that they say could not exist? ... or maybe mods here are better than that of those who work There? just asking...
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] ClassicalDonkey:
they could not do that cus it would cost more for the phone people to get it ans then they would make it so pople would have to pay more for the same phone!!!
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] mdhensley5:
Thanks for the comments and "well said" Badbert.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] icezar:
i think this also depends on your state low. I am almost sure that this in not ilegal for example in North Coreea :D
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] mdhensley5:
LOL! Good one, Icezar!
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] icezar:
:p just sow your signature... Very funny i would of never thought of that!!!
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] Maceone:
We're still using code that isn't licensed whether it be by phone manufacturer, service provider or us. M$ windows code isn't public domain.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] Pumpiron579:
Pirated from who? I do not see any availability to purchase Mobile 6 software from M$....Vista, XPSP2,Windows 2000 is sold to you and you run it on a machine... that is legit, now, if you copy it and distribute the copy.... that is a pirated version of Vista, XPSP2,Windows 2000 . Where is a copy of Mobile 6 from M$ that is sold that you could put on your PPC??? I have a Free Mobile 6SDK Kit that allows me to develope Mobile 6...Free

The only way that this would be Pirated is if M$ sold this software and it is not sold anywere.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] mdhensley5:
Now that you mention it, right after I joined the forum I do remember there being some comments about not being able to host the WM6 ROMs on the XDA ftp anymore. Here's the thread if anyone is interested http://www.xda-developers.com/modules.php?name=News&file=showarticle&threadid=294142.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] WheresWaldo:
Again, you are confusing two things here, Pirating and Stealing. Yes to pirate would imply that you are depriving someone of some monetary gain. Since WM6 is not available for sale you could justify using it by saying that I am not a pirate because it is not an item that is sold.

But, and its a big BUT, did M$ allow you to use their code for personal use, I don't think so. So if you took something that does not belong to you and you are using it, redistributing it, modifying it, even if this is all done for the greater good, you still STOLE it!

Bottom line is you may not be a pirate, but you are a thief!

Ask yourself WWJD? The answer is clear, He would use what he bought and not what he stole (free or not).
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] Pumpiron579:
Here ya go, Knock yourself out playing with Free code......

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...3a-a651-4745-88ef-3d48091a390b&displaylang=en

and here

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb278115.aspx
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] BA_Flash_GOD:
?

I guess the moral is ask email M$ and see what they say, and please post the response i'd love to see haha. People have contacted them before about what was up. You'd have to have some nutties to tell them you are using it..I'd tip my hat for that one!

Yeah you should really read up that.. was a huge deal. Those threads explain how it works legally, will answer this pole.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] Whiterat:
Yes pirating, How many of these imgfs whores have a donate button?

Every single one of them.

The only people I can forgive are those like midget who use the money to get another HTC device and then develop for that, then the leftover money is distributed.

I am not naming names (but you know who you are with your 35 page thread in 4 days) hasnt even donated to Xda-Devs and I bet he must have made ATLEAST 100 bucks by now just from this version (exclusing the countless ones before), by doing nothing other than messing with the OEM folder.

How do I know? Because if he/she had any real skill he/she would have rebased the modules already, or maybe not released at all knowing full well its still buggy as hell.

I dont want money for what I do (Would be nice lol but seriously Im good) but that is not why I do it, I do it for the gratitude of genuine members.

It literally sickens me to see you guys making money off this, it costs you nothing but time - You think I ported this rom in 1 night? You must be joking, so dont come back with the old "well It took me time" thats what a community does, dedicate time for worthwhile projects.

*Rant Over*
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] mdhensley5:
Here's the email response that I got yesterday. It doesn't really answer the question but maybe points in the right direction.

RE: SRX1040651776ID - Windows Mobile 6 licensing...

Standard Header|Full Message View

Microsoft Online Customer Service <CNTUS.PRCS.NA.00.EN.TRA.BGL.CS.T01.CUS.00.WB@css.one.microsoft.com>

Microsoft Online Customer Service <CNTUS.PRCS.NA.00.EN.TRA.BGL.CS.T01.CUS.00.WB@css.one.microsoft.com>...

AddMonday, July 30, 2007 6:19:38 PM

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Microsoft Online Customer Service.

I understand from your message that you would like to obtain information on Windows Mobile 6 licensing.

As a Customer Service Representative, I would like you to know that the Microsoft Sales and Partner Information (MSI) team provides general and technical pre-sales information about product features, product upgrade, and licensing. They will able to provide you with further assistance.

The phone number and hours of support for customers to reach the Microsoft Sales and Partner Information (MSI) team are as follows:

(800) 426-9400, Monday through Friday from 6:00 A.M. to 6:00 P.M. Pacific time.

If you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Thank you for using Microsoft products and services.

Passang

Microsoft Online Customer Service Representative

If you have any feedback about your Online Customer Service experience, please send them to my manager, Anil Kumar, at http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=6998852

Please do not forget to indicate the name of my manager in the subject field.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] WheresWaldo:
Apparently they did not understand your request and just sent you a canned response, or chose not to respond.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] WheresWaldo:
Whiterat, I for one am thankful for all the work and time you have put into extending the life of my wizard. I hope no one misinterprets what I wrote. I am not condemning or accusing anyone, simply replying to a question about the legality of individual users taking M$ code and using it for personal use and/or personal gain.

Then we have the poster that had links to the SDK, who apparently is not a software developer and does not seem to understand what an SDK is used for. If you are developing applications for WM6 then you should be using the SDK and you are allowed to redistribute modules necessary to run your developed application. It is not a license to redistribute the entire OS.

Whiterat please continue doing what you are doing for as long as you enjoy it. Choose to ignore me and others when you disagree with what we say, but most of all have fun with it!
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] BA_Flash_GOD:
ah

Yeah it's either an automated response for all the xda people that write haha or it's some dude outsourcing for M$ named Passang that is a tool and wants you to legally purchase a license for WM6. They'd easily see what's up when you say you have an HTC Wizard, since it didn't release legally for this device.

Either way I dunno how anyone can say vote "no" to this pole.. it's 110% jacked code.

I'm sure M$ would be busting 'ingenetics' arse if they knew the culprit
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] mdhensley5:
I just called the number M$ provided in their email response to my request for information regarding WM6 licensing. I taped the conversation and have attached a snippet that answers the question for me. Take my vote out of undecided and put it into the yes column.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] kosmania:
I Hope we are Pirate

I Hope we are Pirates that we we can wear an eye patch, drink Rum and sing pirate songs...
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] icezar:
WOW... you totally killed this guy... but i also have to admit that i find his rom as one of the best.

It`s true that, i think, he just puts pieces around here together but for the users that just came here to download a rom this is usefull.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] icezar:
I think you work for M$ and came here just to break our fun :eek:

Me pirate no! M$ pirate sure! :D
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] mdhensley5:
:p I don't particularly like M$ and I'm sure Bill never pirated anything. :rolleyes:
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] badbert:
OOOOHHH!!! HOW WRONG YOU ARE!!! Clearly you do not know the story of Microsoft!!!! I strongly suggest you educate yourself a little further, find the movie, "Pirates of Silicon Valley" and watch it. Gates sold IBM a Digital Operating System (DOS) that he didn't own. He then bought it from a programmer for $5,000. Steve Jobs, toured Hewlett Packard, and they gave him the "Mouse", with a Graphical user interface. Bill Gates offered to Join forces with Apple and stole the interface and Made "Windows".
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] mdhensley5:
Badbert, I was being sarcastic. LOL! That's why I was rolling my eyes in the previous post.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] badbert:
LOL, Sorry, have you seen the movie?
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] mdhensley5:
If that was the movie with Noah Wylie from ER, then no I haven't seen it. It sounds interesting though. :)
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] dwny:
Who cares....!
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] badbert:
That's the one... and it is ...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0168122/

And speaking of Steve Jobs, he is just a salesman, Steve Wozniak was the brains...
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] n3rxs:
The point is M$ made billions of what was originally pirated so who cares.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] WheresWaldo:
Totally irrelevant how M$ got started, you, my friend, are apparently not in the business world, or perhaps you encourage your customers to steal from you!

Theft is Theft! Go tell your story to the Judge.

Please note that I am a thief also, I just openly admit it without trying to rationalize my behavior. Patiently waiting for Zoki to release 8.1, woot!
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] mdhensley5:
I've dropped back to WM5 for now. You know, it wasn't that painful. Perhaps I'll get a Hermes when WM6 is officially released.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] jwzg:
Interesting....are we going anywhere with this?
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] Pumpiron579:
I vote this thread to be closed.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] WheresWaldo:
I also vote this thread be closed, it seems to have been started as a way to either guilt some into not using WM6 or to justify its usage. This thread served no useful purpose.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] mdhensley5:
I was curious about how the community felt about this issue and it helped me to decide what was right for me.

I think it should remain open because it might help some newbies decide whether they really want to use a custom version of WM6. Notice I didn't say pirated. That is something that each individual needs to decide for themselves. Perhaps this thread should be stickied. That seems like the responsible thing to do. If this forum is going to provide links to questionable software, then newbies should be warned of the potential problems of using said software.

If you are going to close all non-technical threads, perhaps you should close them all and not pick and choose.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] perm:
Yikes. Is this guy actually serious!!??? A-M-A-Z-I-N-G. And thanks for the chuckle. If you want free legal advice, try this:

http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/ObjectID/2C02C865-21E7-497C-9DDDBA058175FFA1/310/

not this:

http://xdaforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1412545
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] TaurusBullba R.I.P.:
It's very clear that you have serious convictions and beliefs. That's quite fine and good. I completely understand and respect that. I also SEE what you're saying, but like many others, don't quite UNDERSTAND your true purpose with this thread/poll.

The question you've posed has been asked and discussed many times already. So I'm not sure why you felt the need to open up another discussion over it. Is this truly to benefit the members here? Or is this just a way to "slip" in one's personal beliefs on what some consider a grey matter?

I believe that if this was such a problem, Microsoft would have taken legal action against the site. Reasonable? However, I know of no license agreement that states what we do here is illegal. Instead, I believe they realize that this matter is a bit grey. I also know that Microsoft developers and employees visit this site quite often to glean information and such from *our* developers and members. It's a tenuous relationship, but certainly beneficial to both organizations.

With HTC being one of the largest suppliers of WM devices in the world and XDA-Developers being the largest (for arguments sake) "support site" for HTC devices, it's no surprise that attention and questions like this have been brought up. Most of the negative focus regarding WM6 is really from the carriers, not Microsoft. This can be due to many factors, including but not limited to people bricking their phones and expecting to get a warranty replacement (which costs the carriers money), people upgrading older "out of service" phones to WM6, rather than buying a nice new and expensive device, and so on.

So in regards to your question, "Are we running a pirated OS", that's for you to decide. Legally, I would say no. But I'm not a lawyer. Most members here are mature enough to use their own judgement and commons sense when making decisions. So, let them. But, I think asking a question that has no "official" answer from either side just seems a bit futile and agenda driven.

Just my opinion.

But on a related note, Microsoft used the Wizard as one if it's primary devices to develop and test WM6. So... wasn't it made for it? ;)
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] badbert:
Even though I disagree with your opinion... HERE HERE Well Said TaurusBulba!!
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] mdhensley5:
Hey, TaurusBulba. Long time, no see. Thanks for your comments and questions.

When I started this thread, I was undecided about the whole pirating question and was also slightly miffed at being called a pirate. Yes, I wanted the comments and poll to justify my use of WM6. Along the way, BA_flash_god reminded me of the big flap that ensued when M$ asked XDA to not host files containing M$ software on the XDA servers. That thread was a good source of information that had been buried with time. Next, Sandrobber (in a different thread) suggested that we would have to look at the licensing for WM6 to really answer the pirating question. BA_flash_god also suggested that we would have to ask M$ to really know about the licensing for WM6. So, since I did not have a license for WM6, I emailed M$ with questions about licensing and was directed to call the M$ Sales and Partner Information Team. I called them and received what to me was a definite answer to the question. The number is posted in this thread so anyone can call M$ themselves. Since then I've dropped back to WM5. So, yes, at the beginning of this thread, I was trying to justify my use of WM6. But, along the way, I got some really good comments and was pointed to some excellent sources of information that helped me to answer the question for myself. Now, I think this thread should be stickied to serve as a repository for information so that new and old members alike can answer the question for themselves. As you say in your signature, site search stinks.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] mdhensley5:
Well, I sold my Wizard on ebay today and have ordered an 8525. I know you guys are gonna miss me.:p Look out Hermes, here I come.:D
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] boot_sectorz:
we buy thei PDA which "needs" an operating system and pay for one. We entitled to one. I choose WM6, it would be piracy if i installed 2 OS! if the sell, expresses the os I "should" have, it would be different.

So can't be piracy!
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] schmia:
I think it's a stupid question if we ar running illigal OS on our wizards.

Of course we do!

The wizard never had WM6 and we never payed for this OS.

I'm using it anyway!

Please close this thread.

Regards,

Schmia
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] mdhensley5:
Why close it? People are still commenting and voting. This could be the basis for a great term paper in the Survey of Legal Environments of Business class that I'm about to begin in Fall semester.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] swingheim:
Its NOT Piracy! Proof follows ...

Once again, I talked with M$'s PDA guy at Tech Ed.

He told me that M$ is under contract with carriers to provide them exclusively with WM5/6. As such, they cannot publicly endorse others downloading it (xda developers) as that would be a violation of their contract with said carriers. (And as such, they cannot allow XDA Developers to distribute the ROMs)

With that said, he told me that Microsoft LOVES what XDA Developers do, and that they would have no problem giving us the OS if they weren't bound by their contracts.

So, M$ said they would GIVE us the OS if they could. They wrote it, and if they want to give it out free, that is their choice. But they can't (cause of carrier contracts). So, we have our own copies, and the copyright holder, M$, has no problem with us having them. The carriers might, (because us having them circumvents their contracts) but they are not the copyright holders, and have no say in the matter.

So, bottom line, ITS LEGAL, FTW.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] WheresWaldo:
Incorrect....

The carrier contracts are such that they are the only legal means of getting the OS. It is an exclusive right to distribute the OS with accompanying hardware. It's NOT LEGAL to take ROMs and cook them to redistribute without said permission of the exclusive distributors. Why not ask the AT&T or T-Mobile guys the same question and see if you get the same response from them.

Added: Say you have an 8125 which you have updated to an one of the numerous WM6 ROMs floating around. Now you need service for that phone. Do you send it in with WM6 on it or do you reflash, if possible, with the standard carrier supplied ROM image? You really don't have to tell me your answer since I already know what you have to do. If it was ok then there should be no reason to reflash with an OEM ROM. But we realize that it is not, so we reflash.

Just to reiterate, I use and am thankful that the ROM cookers are here, I appreciate their work and will continue to use their hijacked product. I just don't delude myself into thinking that what I and others are doing is perfectly fine and my right as a consumer.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] karios:
If I can't buy something then I can't pirate it. As simple as that, at least for me. Pirating is choosing to copy the software instead of buying it. And I don't want to buy a new phone. Imagine having to buy a new laptop/desktop to upgrade to a new OS. That would suck:)
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario ROM Development] fyahstar:
That has more to do with warranty than piracy. The Wizard came with WM5 and altering the OS voids the warranty.

As for if were using a pirated OS....my answer is no. HTC recently began releasing upgrades for particular phones to WM6, *free of charge*. Ingentics got his WM6 from MS or his carrier (cant remember which one). Doubt they charged him for the OS. Unless there is some sort of licensing agreement stating otherwise...i say its not pirated.