yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] AndrewJB88:
Side loaded initally, I have since removed all updates and allowed Google Play Store to update it. so I now know I'm using the correct version.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jasondclinton_google:
I'm working with the wider team on the updated listing language now. Thanks for that feedback--you're right that that would have helped.

This definitely should have passed: we don't look at the bootloader lock status. Would you mind PM'ing me some details? Build number, etc. would help. Did you root after stock install? I would love to look into the details and I'm very sorry that you've spent so much time on this to no avail.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Danrarbc:
Android Pay is such a slick and focused app. I wanted to try it so bad I left CyanogenMod and returned to CyanogenOS on my OnePlus One and I'm not failing device checks. By many accounts I should be able to use it now right?

Wrong. I had 3 cards working fine in Google Wallet. Not a one works with Android Pay - and two of the banks are actually listed as partners. Going back to Google Wallet means having to roll back a host of other Google app updates, and even if doing so makes the cards work again it doesn't seem to grandfather them with Android Pay again :(

I'm so disappointed in the whole platform right now.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jasondclinton_google:
Hrm, well that's not expected. When you say they don't work, what kind of error are you seeing? I really do want to look into this and will open a bug report if we can get enough context. If you prefer, you can PM me the jist of what you're seeing (please do not include real card numbers).
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Danrarbc:
Edit:

Actually I found the issue. Looks like using the LCD density changer built into CyanogenOS not only prevents you from adding new cards, it causes the payments to fail too - I should have known that would cause all checks to fail. Returning that to default allowed the 'non-supported' bank card to go through using the old virtual card. Why is this stock feature breaking Pay? 480dpi causes screen elements to be so comically large on the OnePlus One display.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jasondclinton_google:
Hrm, something is wrong: this should have worked. Can you provide some details of what you did, what build version you're on, etc? If you'd like you can PM your process to me. I'll look into it.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] AndrewJB88:
Have fixed mine, Changed my home address to USA (Used Google's California address) and it now works.

So its because I'm UK based.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jasondclinton_google:
It shouldn't work in the UK but it also shouldn't crash. I'll open a bug to see if I can track down what's going on. Thanks for the report, by the way.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] zulu99:
In my opinion, the problem, before being dealt in the aspect of security, should be analyzed from a legal perspective, or better, what are the rights of an user who buys a device.

In the question, there are two conflicting interests. The economic interests of Google and the rights of the owner of the device.

It would be interesting to understand what is most important and this should be established by Governments and certainly not a from a private company.

Users need root permissions to protect their privacy, to protect their data, do maintenance to the terminal and also to deal with cyber attacks. In fact, without high permissions, when you are the victim of a malware, you have no chance to delete it without root.

Google on the other hand, in order to protect its commercial services, prefer the easy way, unprivileged users.

If Governments should introduce laws that see users' interests more important than those of a private company, then Google would be obliged to coexist both things. And at this point, since the development doesn't have boundaries, could be possible to find the right balance and at the same time the necessary security.

So, being the conflicting interests, it is necessary that the highest governmental organizations intervene in the matter and put an end forever to these disputes.

In my opinion, Google has placed its economic interests before users' rights. In addition, taking advantage of this security model inverse (only Google and the manufacturer have system's permissions and not the owner), has created, inside Android, fast lanes at the expense of many other companies.

The fact that at the beginning Android was more open, has served to attract many developers into this world. But then when success was rampant, it's time to reap the rewards by introducing blocks and restrictions that only serve to protect economic interests.

I hope that things will change, but I see no other solution except that the introduction of laws very clear on the subject.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jasondclinton_google:
Sorry, I didn't mean to skip your main point. It's really hard to get the nuance on some of this stuff and I want to be completely honest with you all instead of sounding like I'm dodging.

On this topic, I would personally backup any claim that the Android *ecosystem* is secure. There are lots of defenses built in at various levels. Personally, I never install sideloaded apps from third parties precisely because of the reasons that you mentioned. There's a report that we published this year that has this quote in it "[potentially harmful applications] are installed on less than 0.1% of devices that install applications only from Google Play". From here: https://static.googleusercontent.co...Google_Android_Security_2014_Report_Final.pdf
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] pyler:
I am simprised Google allows such modifications to Android internals (CyanogenOS LCD density changer) and so it passes CTS tests.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kirmr:
Same problem here in Portugal, I know it isn't supposed to work here but after installing app when trying to add new card Google play services crash every time.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] manardj1:
Jason, thanks for opening up to the community--many of us were very frustrated with the lack of communication about this.

I have one question. What about our loyalty and gift cards? I get that you can't allow rooted devices to add payment cards or make transactions because one of us might have thoughtlessly allowed an unknown super user request, but seriously--why can't we just see our loyalty cards? I used the old Wallet app for this as much as anything else. Can they get back into the new Wallet app or something? Keeping a folder with PDFs seems extremely cumbersome to me. I'll need to find another solution and then I'll be uninstalling (ie, not using) the official Google app.

Thanks again, you have been very helpful and kind.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Danrarbc:
Yeah I'm not sure why it interferes, but that definitely seems to have been my issue. Bought a soda at the default 480dpi, told me the card didn't work with Pay at 440dpi. CyanogenOS doesn't touch the build.prop at all when you use that setting.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] pyler:
If somebody roots their device, removes e.g. useless APKs (bloatware) and unroots device, will Android Pay work?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ttabbal:
Sure. I'm a little surprised Android hasn't jumped on the Virtual Machine bandwagon yet. The devices are quite capable, and don't need full virtualization. Just something like what Solaris does with their Zones. Same OS/kernel/libraries, different apps and environment, read-only access to system libs etc. so you don't need to duplicate them in RAM. That's all a bit easier said than done, but the basic ideas are sound and the tech already exists, assuming the SOCs have proper MMUs and such that could protect the host OS. It would still limit custom kernels and such though.

It would be even easier to do full out virtualization, and boot another Android instance inside the "safe" one. The down side is RAM. We would need phones with much more RAM. And storage for the guest OS.

The thing is, root users are a significant minority, and that is a lot of engineering effort. Then there's QA, penetration testing, etc.. All for something maybe 10% of the users will use.

I'm honestly not that impressed by NFC payments. I see why people like it, but generally speaking, it's not easier than pulling out my plastic. However, there are a lot of things I really like with root and xposed. So I'll just forgo Android Pay. Frankly, with xposed in particular, that should be keeping anyone dealing with money up at night. It's extremely interesting and capable, but it's also very dangerous. I can literally re-write apps as they are running. Allowing that anywhere near something that deals directly with bank accounts.....
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ajm786:
Someone mentioned it before, and in my opinion, Google should make options for those of us who want root.

There is ZERO reason why my device should take a step back in functionality. Google Wallet (the old version) works PERFECTLY, and is extremely convenient. That has now been all broken with this "newer" Android Pay.

The options? Simple.

1. For those of us who are rooted, leave the "older" Google Wallet app option intact, which tokenizes our cards through the virtual Mastercard.

2. For everyone else, Android Pay.

It's really that simple. As a user, everything is/was working great. Google broke it with Android Pay. I know and completely understand Google's impetus for migrating to the Android Pay platform, but that shouldn't mean cutting all us root users out.

As mentioned before, it is US POWER USERS who advocate and set this stuff up for everyone else, not the other way around. If I can't use it, I sure as hell will not be advocating it to anyone else. Heck, I even advocated it to iPhone users. And the fact that you can use Apple Pay on a phone that's been jailbroken is laughable, so this should indeed be doable in terms of the Android side of things.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jasondclinton_google:
I completely agree with you there. I have seen some others worried about this too. I'm going to look into the status of this. I can't promise anything but I will raise this issue internally. Sorry for trouble, though, and I'll pass along that people are frustrated by this.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Danrarbc:
Android Pay completely replaces the Google Wallet Tap-To-Pay entry too though. I can see why they don't want to support two completely different solutions.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jasondclinton_google:
As long as it's a stock, official, unrooted ROM, it should work.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] AndrewJB88:
I changed my address in Google settings to Google's California account and it now works. Changed it back to UK address and it now also works! definitely a bug.

Obviously wont let me add a card :( hurry up with UK support.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ajm786:
Using that logic, they split apart the all inclusive app (Google Wallet) into Android Pay and Google Wallet. They are pretty much already supporting two solutions. Either keep the "root functionality" users in the other Google Wallet app, and continue using Android Pay for everyone else.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] RusherDude:
Thanks for your reply!

Android ecosystem? We should focus more on the Android system itself, real system-level xploits like stagefright or the thousands of root exploits we've seen until now, not about minor exploits on apps. If the base for Android Pay isn't secure per se, what's the point of implementing security?

Sorry if I'm repeating myself, I guess you aren't able to answer that question and it's a shame :crying:
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ttabbal:
So, because I can smash down your door, you don't have a lock on it?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] trickinit:
I am currently using an LG G2 on T-Mobile with its stock ROM. It's on 5.0.2. I was rooted with Xposed. I unchecked the root option in SuperSU and unistalled the Xposed framework. I also have a custom DPI. I've just read a few posts indicating that this can cause issues. Is that really the case? I'll try changing it back to 480 and see if that works. I just hate the look of it.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] YaKillaCJ:
Honestly tho, this is irritating. Yes I get that U have more direct information instead of tokens. I get it. But in essence, this can be said for our bank apps, paypal, and even gmail. If it was all that serious, to get into most accounts, all thats needed is our email account it was signed up with. This is a lil off topic tho.

Here is the reality, people are already reverse engineering the checks and finding a way to bypass em anyways. If security is that much of a concern, then encryption of the app and all its information is a better solution. Basically find a way and stop taking the easy way out. If Google doesnt, the community will. We are already power users and have the tools already in place xposed is enough to trick the checks anyways. Its only a matter of them finding out whats being checked. Good example of this is going on with some custom roms and there antipiracy software thats being bypassed even tho its in the core of the rom.

Or even better, a disclaimer and we the user will take on the responsibility. Honestly Im gonna test it but another solution I already have is MultiRom. Put stock CM 12OS on my OnePlusOne and literary have it there just for Android pay. Funny thing about that is if it works, it shows just how not so secure your setup is. Why because all files can be accessed from each individual rom if the user wants to (hidden by default).
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] trickinit:
OMG I finally got it to add a card. The DPI really was the issue. So to be clear, I had to remove Xposed framework, return the DPI to 480, and disable root. Now I just have to try to process a transaction with it.

Now my question is, why does the DPI matter? I hate having everything so big. It's such an eyesore.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Danrarbc:
You have to leave the dpi at 480 to make payments :(

I can take moving back to CyanogenOS (slightly slower than a good CyanogenMod compile, but hey), I can take disabling root when I don't need it. But not being able to set a density that I feel is sane is going too far. Especially when it is a feature of my stock ROM (in your case I'm sure you modified build.prop to change it)
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] trickinit:
Yes I did. And I completely agree. I don't see how modifying the DPI should have any effect at all on whether or not Android Pay should function.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jasondclinton_google:
Hrm. I wouldn't have expected this to fail. I'll open a bug and see if I can figure out why this is happening. No promises but I will look into it.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] baknblack:
If the carriers would stop loading the phones with so much crapware a lot of people could live without root. Even google is guilty of this. Just put the d*** apps in the store and not locked in the system partition.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] trickinit:
Cool! Thanks again for all the clarity you've provided. It's been a refreshing experience to get some insight from someone on the inside.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] tigerhawkvok:
What about Marshmallow, then?

Will we able to install the old Google Wallet on Marshmallow, and retain our functionality?

I'm glad you responded -- but this just tells me "stick with the old Wallet".

Also, maybe you can actually make this heard -- give us the ability to spend from our Wallet balance first again! I'll probably go unrooted on the Nexus 5X when it comes out, but Android Pay is inferior to Wallet in that respect, too.

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:24 PM ----------

Not much support, is it? "Exactly as before, no new feature improvements, only bugfixes".

Done. I'd be SO much happier.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] robrob777:
Why

Why does Google Play Services drains so much bettery??

Using a limiter like amplify doubles the battery life and everything still works, is it just bad coding? .
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cpanos:
Thank you for taking the time to provide us with info about Google pay.

Does the safetynet api use any of the "trustzone secure world" capabilities during check? Because if its not, isn't the produced checksum spoofable?

I'm very interested to know in what extend android utilizes trustzone in general (Android, not the proprietary Knox). Not allot of documentation around this.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] YaKillaCJ:
lol thats another ongoing battle. I would say that its off topic and doesnt pertain to this but it does. Root is absolute a must for many of us because mistakes Google themselves made [MENTION=2466029]robrob777[/MENTION] makes a very valid point.

These apps are a must to help with battery life and data.

Greenify - Should be a system option built in to let us keep apps at bay and from just running for no reason

Amplify - Limit them wakelocks caused by google. Like location service we need but not so much

AdblockPlus - Adds can be horrendous. I dont have data or battery to spare. Yes I pay for plenty APPs. Honestly Ive at least spend $150 on various apps, I support developers.

Service Disabler - Again Google fault that we have to stop Google Play Services from draining battery.

Viper4Android - Not Google fault but lets be honest, once U have it, 1 can never not have it.

Cerebus - Adds security for example. *I dont use it but many use it and similar apps.

AppsOps - It and its many variations add security

Firewalls - Again security

These are essential to Root Users who are basicly android users with knowledge.

So now we being told we put our info at risk, so we have to run stock. Yet stock roms are by far the most Insecure out there. Tell me this, why arent U blocking Touchwiz, Sense and Ect. ALL OEMs are behind in security, bugs, vulnerabilities and glitchs. Only Google Nexus Devices are kept up in real time. Oh wait, Nightly builds are kept secure too and many times faster at finding them.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] bunklung:
II noticed play services draining my battery more after I upgraded and activated Android Pay. I am rooted.

After all this discussion and clarification from Google, it's my best guess that something within Google Play Services is running the root check here.

I am hopeful that by uninstalling Wallet and AndroidPay that this will stop the battery drain issues.

Oh well, I will get by without using my phone with Android Pay. I won't give up root any time soon.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ahaynes42:
This is the main argument I've been saying for years! I just don't understand why all the customization that root provides is not already built into the Android OS. More specifically - full app+data backup, detailed battery/wakelock stats, and UI customization. These are basic things that we the user should have access to without having to get superuser privileges! But unfortunately, we have to rely on root for these things, and now it sounds like I can never use Android Pay. It's really a shame.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] devadvance:
Abbreviating both posts, but [MENTION=3200478]Woody[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6957306]jasondclinton_google[/MENTION] are saying very similar things, both of which I happen to agree with, despite being the one to develop RootCloak.

There's a balance between security and usability. It's the same reason that a standard linux distro doesn't really support running as root; a tenant of good security design and opsec is principle of least privilege. However, when we're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars in financial liability, security is the #1 priority. The attempt that Google is making at guaranteeing some degree of security and isolation is a huge part of what makes it possible for banks to sign up while still complying with regulations, and avoid passing risk mitigation charges down to cardholders. Ultimately, a financial risk/burden to banks is also a financial risk/burden to consumers.

Xposed + RootCloak is a fantastic example of the power and risks of rooting your device. For any application you choose, you are quite literally overriding fundamental methods used in Java, such as the File constructor. If you really sit down and think about it, it has the same characteristics as a rootkit: An exploit was used to gain higher privilege on the system, and then a module is used to hide any trace of that higher privilege. While RootCloak is working on behalf of the phone's user, what if the same techniques are applied to thousands of devices? Having a rooted device truly requires the user to be extremely diligent, and is part of why you have to be crazy to let an app use root that isn't vetted by any kind of community or open source.

I love the idea of an open dialog and the search for an ideal balance. Someone suggested a page or two back the idea of a power user, which has the ability to exceed normal privilege, but not interfere with the system itself. Many possible avenues, and with the vibrant community and the great people at Google, the best approach is just to take one step at a time.

Also, if you're curious why I personally prioritize security, even while developing something like RootCloak, you need to understand how subversive software can be. Check out http://www.underhanded-c.org/.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] YaKillaCJ:
Ill say this bluntly and this is a strong statement that cant be simply overlooked. Most, if not all recent Community built roms are more secure than the devices stock rom provided by the OEM. In order to gain root, most devices need an exploit in the first place. Ure concerns are NOT security in my eyes. It feels more so like control and/or covering your own back if mistakes happen (to blame the OEM). If it was security, then it should work on custom roms that dont have SuperUser (root) privileges. Yes, many Roms dont come with Root and these Roms are more secure than OEMs stock. But U arent just checking for root, your forcing stock everything. Whats to stop the same malicious software U talking about from just using the exploit left behind by OEMs slower pace. Not hard to build it for the S4-S6 that covers a lot of Android. Stagefreight is an example of that and many devices are still vulnerable.

If anything, be more proactive. Instead of checking if the system been altered, check if the system vulnerable to common exploits.