yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Jackos:
We stated from the beginning that this is an experimental patch that should be used with extreme caution. Yes, I agree that this will put battery and the mainboard under more stress. That's obvious.

Just keep in mind that for obvious reasons Sony engineers cannot say "we just crippled QC2.0 on the International variant, because our marketing department told us to do so". I'm not saying that was the case, but still... Have that in mind.

That's the spirit of XDA-Developers. Nothing we develop is really safe ;) Take rooting as a example...
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] nos1609:
[MENTION=3783716]showlyshah[/MENTION] glad to help you!
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] kholk:
What [MENTION=359497]jerpelea[/MENTION] said is absolutely correct.

It's not about being slightly dangerous or "unsafe", and it's not about marketing bull****.

If it was that, I would be the first one to enable faster charging on our unified kernel, but that is really dangerous and unfeasible. It WILL damage your battery, it WILL eat it, it WILL reduce its health FASTER.

What is not clear is if the charging circuit can support such a stress (because I didn't really study the whole circuit). The PM8941 can obviously support it, because it's a QC chip (hence supporting reference design things), and OK -- that's sure but don't forget that the circuit is not just made of that chip.

Anyway, the problem here about that chip is that, the more current it allows to flow, the hotter it gets: there's where part of what Alin said about "thermal envelope" comes (because no, it's not just that chip).

Instead of saying that it is marketing bull****, open your phone (or do it in another way, whatever), take the battery P/N, search the datasheet and READ IT: you will find that there is an hardware limitation on the battery's supported charging current.

JUST

READ!

My two cents!

-- AngeloGioacchino Del Regno
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Jackos:
Just read again my post, because you misunderstood my point.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] kholk:
I didn't misunderstand your point.

You should better read: synthetically, I said that it is REALLY dangerous (batteries can explode -- and that's bad) and that, basically, Sony's engineers are paid to do their job, not to say "things" for marketing reasons.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Jackos:
No way the battery gonna explode under that charging current. It could if you expose it to high temperature (over 60C as stated on the battery). However our solution doesn't push the battery over 55C.

Sony's engineers do what they are being told by the management. Never been in a corporation?

Take my word as an electrical engineer or just ignore it and do whatever you please.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] kholk:
You, as an electrical engineer, should know that reading the datasheet is the first thing that HAS to be done.

Take my words as a computer engineer.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Jackos:
The problem here is that we do not have such a data sheet. Give me one if you're so eager to help.

As far as I researched the Domoco Z2 variant uses the same part number battery as the Z2 international. This gives me a good point to believe that this is safe enough.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Haldi4803:
MOD Edit: Remove OT

And yet there is ony tiny question left.

How much difference is there to the Japanese Z2 in Hardware that they decided to activate QuickCharge 2.0 there?

When even the Battery is the same?
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Entropy512:
Also, the assertion that the international version was "crippled" is false. The only variant that has it is not only Japanese, but IS A CARRIER VARIANT. Carriers around the world have a long and well-established history of doing very bad things to devices that cause problems. (AT&T's touchscreen driver hacks on the SGH-I777, AT&T's storage and backup app that constantly thrashed the storage on the Xperia TL, etc.) There's also the mess on the Yu where Cyngn caved to Micromax's insistence that a device with only 2GB RAM support 64-bit libraries, which caused them to run out of /system partition space. So now the device is totally ****ed up with crazy on-the-fly compression for /system which reduces performance (CPU being wasted to decompress the files, higher storage latency on /system).

Never, EVER assume that a feature present only in one carrier variant of a device (especially a carrier with an established track record of deploying technologies with massive thermal management problems when they weren't ready - their initial 3G W-CDMA release was a disaster due to frequent handset overheating.) is safe for all variants of that device.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Jackos:
There are many features that Sony could implement, but they didn't. For example Qualcomm Assertive Display. I'm running that for a year or so now, and I don't have problems regarding my backlight burning out etc.

Did you ever see the LED modifications? Have a look here: http://xdaforums.com/crossdevice-dev/sony/mod-torch-boost-led-power-using-z1-t2886705

This was also way over specifications and there wasn't a single person to report a burned LED or explosion.

The QC2.0 hack on the Z2 slows the current when reaching 60%. It stops charging when over 60C. We did everything we could to keep that safe.

Give me a Z2 battery datasheet that states pushing 2A is dangerous and I'll remove all my flashable packages from this thread. Otherwise it's just speculation on both argument sides. It might be dangerous, but no one actually got proof if it is or not.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] erikcas:
Believe me they don't understand the risk at all. They only understand what they think they understand.

I am still very curious the total number of hits the keyword "brick*" on a search on xda will do

Verstuurd vanaf mijn D5503 met Tapatalk
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Entropy512:
I'm an electrical engineer too, one who routinely works with reliability and maintainability folks. There's more to this whole thing than one-time battery explosions. This WILL degrade the battery faster - it won't be seen immediately, but a device that previously would have lasted two years before seeing battery capacity degradation might see it before the two-year mark. It's guaranteed that it WILL be seen earlier.

That's why Apple did step-charging - http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/20/apple-patent-application-points-to-denser-batteries-improved-ch/ - To get more charge/discharge cycles out of the battery while reducing charge time. Their implementation is slightly different (appears the charger is initially set to a CV maximum of 4.00v and waits until some time after the 4.00v CC/CV transition, as opposed to always being CV at maximum voltage with step-transitions of current limit based on state of charge), but it's clear - you need to be reducing current BEFORE the CC/CV transition at the battery's maximum voltage. When this kernel had the step threshold moved to 80% SoC, you nullified all advantages of step charging because you're running full-bore all the way up to the final CC/CV transition. (This point is at around 75-80% with 1.5A charging, and someone posted in my G+ thread that it occurs at 65% with 2.1A charging - also indicating that the original 60% step threshold is itself too high for this device as it's too close to the final CC/CV transition and also that the battery is likely constructed to favor capacity over charge/discharge rate capability.)
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] TheFerhatKing:
The Z3+ has a normal charger too in the box, but Sony says that the Z3+ support it. There we go

Sony Xperia Z2
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Jackos:
Read this thread once again, this is for the Z2, not the Z3. The step didn't change for the Z2 - still 60%. It's relevant only for the Z3 -

arch/arm/boot/dts/msm8974pro-ac-shinano_leo.dtsi

. Leo is a codename for the Z3.

Ref: https://github.com/AndroPlus-org/an...mmit/b582be6034141249f092b51b45aa847263323056
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Haldi4803:
on a fully unrelated note...

Qualcomm introduced QuickCharge 3.0 which doesn't have fixed Voltage anymore but can switch from 3.6V to 20V in 0.2V steps
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Jackos:
This is cool actually. Let's wait for the Z6 :)
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] TheFerhatKing:
We all know the risks, we all know what we've done, we know that it's dangerous. But(!) we are here in a developer forum, our slogan is "No Risk no Fun!" it's even dangerous to root the device because you can brick it if you're a noob. So the point is, without projects like this there woudln't be a great developer forum like XDA, everything is dangerous here (for example rooting the Galaxy S6 let the Knox chip stop working), so my opinion is if you want it do it, if not than not. I really like this QC2.0 hack and I'm thanking to all that helped in this project!

Sony Xperia Z2
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Entropy512:
Even 60% is too high for the Z2 based on evidence. You claim you've done your research, but what you post clearly indicates that you don't know what you're talking about since the little bit of evidence you HAVE collected says that the 60% transition is itself too high. Regardless of whether the 80% change was only in the Z3, the fact that it was done at all puts anything in related patches in doubt as to the amount of rigor/research that went into the patchset, considering that the evidence indicates that even 60% is probably too high.

No, you don't know what you've done. Your posts, and most others here, indicate that you don't know what it takes to have a Li-Ion battery NOT fail in less than two years.

There's a difference between "taking risks" and "doing something that all evidence states you should not to because it is proven to cause long-term damage to the device and the manufacturer's engineers think it's a horrible idea". That is not taking risks, that is outright recklessness.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Jackos:
60% is Sony stock.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Entropy512:
No, a limit of 1.55A throughout the charging cycle is Sony stock.

60% is from either a different device with a different battery (Z3c) or a carrier-mangled (Docomo) device. What part of "carrier modifications can never be trusted" didn't you understand?
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Jackos:
&pm8941_chg {
qcom,maxinput-dc-ma = <1800>;
};

Limited by:

qcom,ibatmax-ma-under-step = <1600>;

Does this look like 1,55A to you? You have seriously no idea about the device we're talking about. Go look at the kernel sources for the Z2 and come back when you got some proper info.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Myself5:
"That Guy" is acutally Entropy512 in case you don't know.

Comparing LED Brightness to charging a Battery? Are you running out of facts or why do you come up with this?

Just because there is no "warning hot" sign on the hot cofee, it does not mean that you can't hurt yourself with it....

Um yeah, that would qualify as additional aftermarket accessoir. Do you see ANY hint on the Sony page about the phone going well with the QC2.0 Charger? No!

Oh, so only Z3 users shall break their battery? Thanks for that.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Jackos:
I was just trying to make a point that not every modification that is over the specifications would damage the hardware.

[MENTION=591147]Entropy512[/MENTION] was making a statement that our patch for the Z2 is dangerous, because it changes the step from 60% to 80%. This is not true, because it only applies to the Z3. He just made that post in a wrong thread - should either post that in the Z3 AndroPlus kernel thread. This thread is specifically targeting the Z2. Please have a look at the AndroPlus repo, because you're making false statements here.

The

qcom,step-thresh-soc

change applies only to Z3.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Abhinav1997:
Thread closed for cleanup. Please avoid OT and bashing each other on the thread.

EDIT: Thread reopened. Keep it on topic and healthy discussions are always welcome :)

Regards,

XDA-Staff
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] TheFerhatKing:
Found a cool .txt file about QC 2.0 in the kernel sources, in the Documentation folder there are lots of cool stuff to read and learn, uploaded it for ya ;)

https://app.box.com/s/yokrcr5wxd2jf1lv42wcz02671h8z4gl

Sony Xperia Z2
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] showlyshah:
I dont know why they even worry!!! Its may be becoz, if people like us find out the solution of such issues, it may be a problem for their marketing, like.. They cant say... Oh.. Look we have a new cool feature in our new product line up, which was there never before. Or simply becoz sony dont want us to expose new features which sony intended to hide from us. Like the z1 camera's 4k recording capabilities. Because if people find out that there is a solution for actually activating the new feature in a previous product, they simply refuses or skip the next product. For example.. Many of z2 oweners never choose to buy an z3, instead they wait for 6 more months and buy z4 or even wait for z5.

I, who is a z2 owner currently, will skip both z3 and z4, and will buy a z5 as my next device. Ofcourse it will take lil time, as i wait for sony's initial spike of device price to settle down to normal, and till then i will continue with z2, ( oh.. I have 1.5 years of warranty remaing on my z2).

But i appreciate your decession to keep the QC kernel in seperate folder, and not to remove those.

Thanks.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] showlyshah:
The point is, if u take a look at the heat sensors inside ur phone, u will see that every single chip, every single section contains heat sensors, actually i think there are more number of heat sensors inside the phone than the number of ic's inside the phone. And if u take a look at the drivers, they actualy report the heat values every now and then. Cameras, processor, ram, nand ( yes internal memory) , radio chips, charging section, battery, even the flash light led too reports the heat, and the drivers are designed in a way that, it will reduce the voltage /current values if a device gets hotter. Or even shut it down ( u only notice that shutting down on camera section, becoz it have a ui, and its more prone to heat up quickly) , did you know that ur processor shut down cores and lowers the voltage ranges when it gets hoter ( its not normaly un noticeable, becoz it does not give you a warning ui).

So my point is, your device, is so much intelligent now that, it can actually manage its working, unless you ruin those beyond limits.

Here we are well within the limits. So if u still worry, what can i say...
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] showlyshah:
Hahha.. Shi###.. Lol.. Does our processor support that.. Should we start a QC-3.0 HACK THREAD!!! .. Lol just kidding.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] showlyshah:
In case u dont notice, z2 have the highest capacity battery from all z devices ( z series phones)devices till z3. Including their compact lineups. Which is 3200 ma. Now u can calculate the 60% u are talking about. And, buddy, i already told that, we have been working on this for months, and 50+% of that is done in cross matching itself.

If u want to know, i have even done crc checkups and hex checkups with the files (Drivers&binaries)from docomo and normal os. Let me tell you this one point, 95% of the files are same, and the rest 5%, they are carrier modified to support their own os and features like dvb reception etc.

Actually the quick charge method completely reside on kernel side on docomo firmware, but since i am not that expert in kernel building, i cant check it, and AndroPlus is not even using z2 any more, still he managed to sort out things, and gave us a full support. Again, with jackos script, we did enable the hvdcp to auto run, and tweaked the current/temperature limits a bit. While we still stay clearly within the limits.

If u noticed one of my earlier posts, u can know that, we are only using 68% of the 1C capacity of charge acceptance of a li-ion battery. And still you are not satisfied, you should really know this.. Li-ions will get max life if you charge with.0.5-0.88 c range. And look what we have 0.68, ring a bell??, that means we are keeping it balanced.

And in case you dont know, sony actually configured z2 to charge in a current less than the 0.5 C range. Ie less than 1600ma ( oh.. I forgot the limit sony set, i think its 1500 or so). Which is not so healthy. Yes it will be healthy for all other z series phones, as their battery capacity is lower than z2's. And sony just kept it so for z2 ( lazy??). Again the point is even with a 2 amp charger, u will never get that amount of current, so you may be charging between 0.4 - 0.5 c. Even with QC HACK, the 0.68-0.7 is our theoritical max, or experimental max values. But if u dont use high quality cables u will be charging with 0.6-0.65 c. So... Thats it. Oh. ya, and there is another kernel from AndroPlus, which does limit the current lil bit more, if u are worried with full qc current, u can change the kernel to get 80-90% qc current.

( i think, i shd update the op with a link to lower current kernel too for people who worry more)
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] TheFerhatKing:
[MENTION=3783716]showlyshah[/MENTION], maybe it (v64a) is the last QC2.0 kernel

Sony Xperia Z2
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Myself5:
They will throttle/shut down the CPU if the CPU get hotter, however, not the battery. Also (which the warning these guys want to tell you) is that the QC hack is what is exactly disabling what you are talking about.

This is at no point related to QuickCharge 2.0. this is a documentation which explains what parameter is doing :/
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Jackos:
This actually makes a lot of sense and I agree. What if we'd set the CC/CV step to 50% and still benefit from the 2150mA limit? This would be more like the Z3C implementation.

I claimed that the battery has the same hardware number. Please, read more carefully.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Entropy512:
Probably since the battery does not seem to be optimized for rapid charging, only 40% - and to compensate for that stress, drop the rate past 40%. Unfortunately that graph shown was REALLY hard to read the scale for voltage. On an older (4.2v) battery you want to drop the rate starting at 4.0v - on the 4.35v batteries, you want to drop before 4.15v for sure, and potentially earlier. Even then, you can't be sure that you won't be degrading the battery's cycle life. Either way - Increasing current at the lower states of charge needs to be offset by a decrease at higher states of charge. This may be unpopular with users since some people just don't run their battery below 40%. Next time I have a reasonable amount of time with internet access (I'm traveling, so only have reliable access in hotels - I've been spending 3/4 of my days without even data coverage on my phone) I'm going to try and dig up the Apple patent itself rather than Engadget's summary of the patent.

It's also probably a good idea to also drop the current even further during the last 0.1v of battery (dunno where exactly this will occur - if you reduce the current "middle" step, 4.15v will occur at a higher state of charge than it will with the current stock current settings.)

[/quote]

Makes more sense - but that's an indication that potentially the charger/DC input circuitry on the motherboard isn't rated for high voltage and could fail prematurely with HVDCP. It's PROBABLY the same and can handle it, but you can't be sure without a complete BOM for that part of the board.

One thing that concerns me in that Z2 battery charging graph someone provided in the comments of my G+ thread is the fact that the charge current AND the vbus voltage was frequently dropping in spikes even with a QC2.0 charger - I found this concerning since on the Z3, I've only seen this happen with non-QC2 chargers. A QC2 charger should have more than enough power to keep the system running AND charge the battery. So the phone's charging circuitry might not be behaving as well as you think it is in these conditions.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Haldi4803:
That was me, and it was not dropping, its spiking up.

But these graphs are made in a 1sec Interval, gonna make the next in 0.36steps.

And we don't have a comparison to stock charger (yet) on Stock Firmware.

Might be a measurement problem and not be charging related.

Don't have Internet tomorrow and might get boored, gonna redo the test on stock firmware then.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] twy_2000:
Interesting topic and informative argues.

I've learned a lot.

One thing wanted to be confirmed:

if I just enable hvdcp feature without tuning z2 kernel, the battery would be harmed or not?
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Entropy512:
Battery probably will be OK. Slight possibility of overvoltage damage to the charger circuitry since motherboard is different.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] TheFerhatKing:
Thanks [MENTION=591147]Entropy512[/MENTION], nice that you warned us and want to help us, you know really much. Respect!

Sony Xperia Z2
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Haldi4803:
[MENTION=591147]Entropy512[/MENTION]

Here we go, official Sony 5.1.1 ROM build .580 Stock (Carrier branded Tree Austria) Charged with an EP880 (1.5A Stock Charger for Z2) and same Cable is use for Quickcharge testing.

Takes a whooping 205 Minutes to Charge and Current never goes over 1A, Battery never goes over 30°C

Battery Voltage 4.35V is reached after 150 Minutes, and thats exactly when the Current starts dropping from 1A and the charging Voltage increases.

The 2nd Graph is now made with a polling rate of 0.36sec therefore i had 34'000 datapoints and can't create a good X axis ~.~

But you can still see the current spiking +0.05A on the falling curve.

I've attached the original Log file as received from the YZX Powermonitor, just in case.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] doraemon6688:
There is no difference really, the Japanese is known to keep the good stuffs only for domestic market. This is the way they do things since the days beyond the 8-bit Nintendo. Japanese national pride is extremely high, they believe that only their own people deserves the best. And it's not about money with the Japanese, they will take pride over profit any day.

So with the Z2, they can do it easily with software to distinguish Japanese model vs "Others". Why not?
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] rommo_911:
LB QC 2.0

so for LB i cant get a QC 2.0 but i can get faster charge right ??

or i can get QC 2.0 with a bit slower speed ?

any how i have the sony uch-10 QC 2.0 ... and the d 6502 .... do you advise to unlock the bootloader ? and get the full QC 2.0 ??
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Grozos:
Hi,

Thank you for this post. 2 quick questions:

1. Does this work with a custom ROM installed, such as Cyanogenmod?

2. What does "WORKING ON Z3 WITH QC ENABLED Z3 KERNEL" mean?

I have a Z2 with unlocked bootloader and I'm able to flash both of the zips, yes. But what does "WORKING ON Z3 WITH QC ENABLED Z3 KERNEL" mean, and will the kernel result in any problems with my ROM?

Thanks!
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] Haldi4803:
[MENTION=3783716]showlyshah[/MENTION]

I have something for the First Post :)

made another test with Stock + jackos Rev5 Hack for locked Bootloader.

Now we have a pretty neat comparison :)

Next thing i'm gonna try is limiting charging to 12W via sysmon, i wonder if that is a way to prevent Quickcharge spiking current as we have it now., compared to 5V which is closely limited to the 1A, 1.5A Max.
[Xperia Z2 Android Development] showlyshah:
Thank you [MENTION=3056043]Haldi4803[/MENTION], i will add that chart to op soon. Btw, u didn't alter any thing from the current setup while u plot this timings, right? So that i can add this as a cross reference for default LB users with jackos rev5 hack?