yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Head-Units] doitright:
Their reasoning was made up.

The car diagnostics reason was invalid, since all cars are required to provide ODB interface for that.

The climate control reason was also invalid, since most cars DO NOT integrate that into the radio, which means knobs. No need for that for the aftermarket part.

Likely what happened is that some car maker made a deal with them to not sell it aftermarket. That way they could use it as a selling feature of some crappy car rather than have the customer say something like "well, I could go get a better car and buy one of these from the store for $500".

---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 PM ----------

That's actually pretty easy to accomplish. Just needs to use the car's accessory power to decide to stay awake or sleep. There is no reason to perform a full shutdown when you turn the car off, and contrary to another response you received, no reason for the HU to have its own battery -- your car already HAS a massive battery, which could maintain a high end SoC in deep sleep for MONTHS.

---------- Post added at 05:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 PM ----------

Most cars have physical buttons on the steering wheels. For others, you can buy aftermarket steering wheel controls, for example;

http://axxessinterfaces.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=111

I don't share your view on the Parrot Asteroid Smart. It was actually a very competent unit, and priced VERY well compared to other automotive headunits, which ACTUALLY WERE restrictive.

The only major gripe I had with that unit was that it was ridiculously under powered, in terms of CPU. If it had a better CPU, I would have built up a device tree for it myself.

But still, you could spend $1000 on a kenwood POS that runs wimo that is locked down to keep you out of customizing any of the software, AND has about the same CPU as the Parrot, or you could spend $500 on the Parrot and have a lot of control over the thing.

---------- Post added at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ----------

Except for Parrot Asteroid Smart. It has wifi, but unfortunately, it is also stuck on Android 2.3 and won't ever be going up from there. Despite the out of date hardware and software on it, I think it is still available, so should still be considered "current".

As an extension to your work, it probably WOULD be possible to get your headunit application working on it, obviously with some hacks, but I wouldn't put any effort into developing for 2.3. Although, I'm sure that EVERYONE who owns one, would be thrilled.

USB optical drive in the glovebox ;)

Not quite. They've only committed to availability of that SoC.

Don't worry, hold on. I'm working on it ;)
[Android Head-Units] typos1:
Lol, I m fully ware that cars have SWC, I was talking about buttons on the HU - I have one with no buttons and one with buttons - the one with buttons is far nicer to use (even though it doesnt look as cool) because it has physical buttons.

All the reviews of the Parrot I ve read say its not much cop and AFAIK its lokcked down as welll.
[Android Head-Units] doitright:
So what is the difference if the buttons are moved over 1 foot to the steering wheel, which is more convenient for the driver?

The unfortunate side-effect of "regular users" is that they see the lack of google play store as the equivalent of being "locked down". In fact, there is nothing at all locked down about it. Access to the system and boot partitions is unrestricted. The system update install file, though an unusual format, is understood, and NOT EVEN SIGNATURE SECURED. The device is WIDE OPEN.

I own one, so I know.

I presume that "cop" is typo for "CPU". Yes. It is a very weak CPU.
[Android Head-Units] typos1:
Its a given that there will be SWC but there will not necessarily be the right buttons or the right amount of buttons on the wheel (due to lack of space), plus what happens if a passenger wants to control something on the HU ?

It wasnt regular users I read that had reviewed it, it was /XDA users, but I may be mistaken and be getting the locked down thing confused with the Kenwood, but basically I saw the price and specs of the Parrot, laughed loudly and didnt bother with it.
[Android Head-Units] doitright:
This is probably a pointless discussion, since it is a matter of personal choice.

xda users ARE regular users. Do you have any idea what the ratio is here between competent developers and mindless crowd of drooling retards? And yeah, there are a bunch in between those two extremes. The point, however, is that you really aren't going to find a particularly high concentration of above-normal end users on this website.

If you want to laugh loudly at the price vs spec issue....

Kenwood's TOP END DNN99x units.... Telechips TCC8800 single core ARMv7, 1 GHz, 512 RAM, 800x480 capacitive touchscreen.

PRICE: $1200-$1400.

Compare that to...

Parrot Asteroid Smart: OMAP3630 single core ARMv7, 1.2 GHz peak, but downclocked to 800 MHz, 512 RAM, 800x480 capacitive touchscreen.

PRICE: $500.

I don't know about you, but I have a lot more faith in Texas Instruments than Telechips, but other than that, they are pretty much the same exact thing, hardware wise. Certainly nothing there justifies the $700-$900 premium for the Kenwood, especially considering that Parrot isn't exactly a chinese hardware factory, in fact, I'd put Parrot at LEAST as high up on the "companies I'd trust" list as Kenwood. Actually a lot higher now that I think about it, since they aren't gouging their customers nearly as much, and provide a much more open product.

Edit: I bought the Parrot for my wife a bit more than a year ago. The consideration was basically along the lines of which option (and I wasn't restricting the options to kenwood or parrot) provided the greatest flexibility without taking the risk of chinese hardware starting a fire in the dashboard.
[Android Head-Units] typos1:
There are a lot of idiots on here, but its supposed to be for devs, that was my point.

TBH I think the Parrot and the Kenwood are overpriced, under-specced rubbish and I d trust Rockchip far more than Telechips or Texas Instruments (as do Intel, which is why theyve started a joint venture with them). Basically youre paying for the name and you get low spec rubbish after youve done this. I prefer the route I ve taken - buying an unknown Chinese brand with a Rockchip processor and some minor bugs, for a lot less, then tweak it with the help of fellow XDA users. You save yourself a lot of cash, have a choice of 100s of units built specifically for certain cars, as well as universal models and you get 4x the number of cores running at getting on for twice the speed.

As for "the risk of Chinese hardware starting a fire in the dashboard", well, this seems a bit of a prejudiced attitude - the Chinese, like every other country, produce high end stuff as well as cheap rubbish and everything inbetween and as ever the old adage "you get what you pay for" is as untrue as ever - theres plenty of expensive rubbish on sale, just as there is plenty of cheap stuff that is very good. Realistically virtually ALL electronics nowadays are "Chinese" - thats where most electronics in the world are made, including, for instance, the most famous piece of over priced, underspecced rubbish the iphone.
[Android Head-Units] doitright:
I have *extensive* experience working with hardware, and even though you might get 4 times as many cores, those cores simply to not perform. Sure, they might be a bit more powerful than a single core around 1 GHz, but they won't be anywhere even close to the ballpark of, for example, an APQ8064 (I.e., nexus 4 or 7/2013). Then you get your CRASH CRASH CRASH CRASH, excessive heat and battery drain, and the occasional unexplainable fire.

I'm not saying that every single thing that is produced by China is bad, but the mass produced unsupported electronics are terrible, and this comes about from not having a brand to protect. Once a name has been thoroughly destroyed in online reviews, they simply change their name and keep on going.

That this happens in China isn't something uniquely Chinese, but rather related to their laws and the cost of labor. Simply put, you CAN produce junk for cheap in China, and not be held responsible. In the US, the cost of labor would exceed the value of the product, which means that you can either oversee product produced in China, OR you can produce super-premium product.

But because of the difference in LAW between China and the US (I use the US as an example, but this really applies to any first world country), as an American company, you can't just let JUNK slide into the US market, since you will ultimately be held responsible to the consumer for it, which means that you are going to be managing quality control over the factory that actually produces the product.

As for your wonderful rockchip head unit.... kinda neat how it has dual bluetooth, isn't it? Obviously the cost of developing decent software to run Android in HFP-client mode was prohibitive given the objective of the product. Instead, they spin it as "you can connect to your ODB bluetooth plug at the same time as being on a phone call".... which you can actually do with a SINGLE bluetooth adapter. WHAT QUALITY!!!

I will reiterate: I would NEVER install chinese electronics in a car, or anywhere that it isn't under CONTINUAL observation to protect against FIRE, or within a properly built fireproof enclosure.
[Android Head-Units] Cholerabob:
I am in the market right now for a good HU what i am looking for

- Good visibility ( contrast ) for sunlight

- Speed

- Connectivity ( more than 1 USB )

- Turns Off with the car , not 2 hours later

- Memory

- Storage ( memory card capacity 64g+ )
[Android Head-Units] typos1:
Dunno where you get the idea that the 4 cores "dont perform" - they perform very well (as they do on all the 3 Rockchip products I have).

My head unit DOES NOT have dual BT, dunno where you got that idea from. I dont use OBD with BT cos its too slow and insecure, but if I wanted to I could with no problems - everyone else with my head unit does whilst managing to use the phone at the same time.

Rockchip's products are very good, which is why Intel signed a deal with them.

As I ve already mentioned, if you have something electronic (car or house), its pretty much guaranteed to originate from China whether it has Western brand's label on it or not, making virtually all electronics "Chinese", but you fail to understand this and continue to perpetuate a load of prejudiced nonsense, this narrow minded, insular attitude is common on the North American continent.

Its clear your knowledge is very limited and based on assumption, not fact, its also clear that you are incredibly prejudiced, I m not continuing this discussion.
[Android Head-Units] doitright:
You clearly read what you wanted to, which was probably nothing. Your response in no way whatsoever relates to what you replied to.
[Android Head-Units] mikereidis:
I absolutely agree.

Yes, some Chinese companies can produce good products, especially when the brand names are "Apple", etc.

But the Chinese HUs discussed in this "Android Head Units" section seem to have an excessive amount of "cheapness" to them IMO. Maybe they will never start a fire, but the software support is pretty non-existent, and software is very important. That's why the best and newest are on Kitkat 4.4 instead of 5.0 even, nevermind 5.1.

The world needs some better HUs that are more open and software (at least) upgradeable than Pioneer, Kenwood, etc. They can even be the same price range, rising into the thousands, if they are good enough.

Automotive grade Linux is one of the efforts to do something like that, but it's obscure and seems more oriented to whatever Jaguar/Land Rover are trying to do, than it is to average tinkerers.
[Android Head-Units] javlada:
Every unit can do it AFAIK. Thanks God it is now possible to delay the turn off time by 2 hours. It is better then it used to be but still far away form being perfect.

How long can a car battery power a tablet in standby mode? For a year? Why the HU can not work like this. Switch off the amplifier and everything what consumes too much power but do no shut down the system. Then the HU can instantly turn on once I start my car. It annoys me a lot that I have to wait 30s before the unit actually starts and I can use it. What annoys me even more is, that this behavior is not necessary and doesn't make any sense.
[Android Head-Units] mikereidis:
My Pioneer 4100NEX requires over 1 amp at 12v doing nothing. With the screen off. (Standby is just a few milliamps, but I'm talking about unit powered.)

I have no idea why, except perhaps for hardware or software design shortcuts. Maybe the amp is always powered, waiting for any audio that might start.

Maybe it's a power sucking linear voltage regulator. There's a heat sink at back that's always warm when it's powered.

I wish it didn't suck that much current. Pioneer is a brand name and the HU cost around $600 so I was hoping/expecting better than this.
[Android Head-Units] lowridincrew,:
Here are the specs that would make me buy it in a heartbeat and I have no idea what most of these radios have.

Front, Rear and Sub Out (Stereo)

4V or higher RCAs

Built in crossover similar to the newer Pioneers.

Attractive launcher with easy navigation.

Multiple USB ports with USB 3.0 support for HDDs/SSDs

SD card slot? Micro?

Lollipop. Quad Core or better chip.

IPS display with antiglare. 1080p if possible.

Update support and support for regular play store apps.

EQ that works on seperate channels like Front and rear speakers have a EQ that doesnt interfere with the Sub woofer and the sub has its own control.

and thats about it.
[Android Head-Units] TheSSJ:
To just throw my 2 cents in:

- Ability to listen to the radio while the device is still booting (I don't like to drive 20s without hearing anything), check the AN21-u devices, they have implemented it (just trying to say that it seems to be possible)

- a *good* radio tuner (there are many out there which deteriorate the reception compared to the OEM devices)

- Maybe an integrated DAB+ tuner for digital radio
[Android Head-Units] mikereidis:
Android M.

IMO, if you are designing a device now, to ship later this year or sometime next year, the plan should include Android M which we should see in the next few months.

While we're "dreaming", lets add a commitment to support new versions of Android in a "Google Play Edition" timeframe for the next few years.
[Android Head-Units] lowridincrew,:
Well thats obvious lol but I covered that in the Support request too.
[Android Head-Units] OlMightyG:
Hi.

-I want a short booting time. Instant up to 5 seconds, everything else is annoying.

-Antiglare Display, scratch resistant.

-Physical buttons for some USEFUL things: Navigation, Home, Back, volumeknob, next/previous track.

-Light sensor for adjusting the display-brightness.

-GPS and GLONASS and if possible even Gallileo support!!

-A mode to modify everything possible in the software.

-Manually mapping keys from steering-wheel.

-Display in 1080p that has high brightness but also dims very low at night.
[Android Head-Units] nomailing:
This is the most important point. The HU needs a sleep/standby which consumes only so low power that a car battery can supply it for at least a few days, better weeks.

That means the sleep/standby mode must have the capability to turn off everything of the device that consumes power and is not necessary for standby.
[Android Head-Units] NogginBoink:
I'd want:

- physical buttons for mute, home and back

-physical knob for volume and dimmer

- five RCA outputs

- auto-dimming screen

- An Android Studio SDK to control all functions

- CANBus integration and customization. For example, some features on my 2015 Mazda6 are set through the head unit. I want to be able to have those features on my aftermarket head unit

- Multiple USB ports, both front and rear

- SD card slot(s)

- DVD drive (hey, you asked...)

- full source code

- pre-rooted

- built in Wi-Fi hotspot and 3G dongle
[Android Head-Units] Orisai:
I'd say work on the hardware first.

A good starting point would be something like this.

E3iO managed to put Mini-ITX motherboards with Intel Haswell (core i3/i5/i7) processors inside a 2din case with a 7" display. Unless you want to run a Pimp My Ride-like setup with huge LCD screens on the trunk, an Intel Core processor is way too much for a car headunit and a huge power drain, but a Quad core Atom would be more than enough, has better power consumption, and is way cheaper.

Building on top of a Mini-ITX board makes a true modular system which would let users upgrade individual components such as the RAM (sodimm) and storage (mSATA or 2.5" SSDs), and even add a true sound card with RCA preamp and optical outputs such as the Creative SoundBlaster Zx. The only thing that must be sorted out is providing adequate car stereo interfaces for the speakers (high level), power, external GPS, WiFi, and 3G antennas (these ones entirely optional), radio, etc, and make them work with a standard Mini-ITX motherboard.

Avoid adding mechanical components, such as optical media players (they take too much space and are pretty much obsolete as of today with 32GB+ microSD cards), and knobs. They easily fail over time because of the car's own vibrations.

As for the software, it should support all the features models like the CarPad-II already have, improved with the xdAuto Android ROM, so it should be able to run Android-x86 and be fully compatible with a Creative sound card (drivers or their source code will be needed).

If I were you and I have the technical and economical resources, I'd go for a modular x86 Android system with upgradeable RAM, storage, and sound systems.
[Android Head-Units] lowridincrew,:
I should have thought about modular too.
[Android Head-Units] mikereidis:
Thread is 4 weeks old now and we've been posting our "Dream HU" desires.

Is this project going forward ?

Any time-frames within which we can expect further information, a design, a prototype or general availability ?
[Android Head-Units] guisar:
Id really like an mhlx2 option. It allows us to charge our phones and provides amazing screen mirroring capabilites.

tapa_talk 4 sucks
[Android Head-Units] playahate:
When the first idea came out (end of the 2014), there were some money spent and the work began.

But it didnt work out.

So the second try is very carefull. The first thing is to know what the people want... Before there will be more money spent on the research and prototype...
[Android Head-Units] mikereidis:
OK. :)

I'll repeat what I've said before, and what at least one other poster wrote: "Worry about the hardware first." If it runs Android well, the software work, UI etc. can be taken care of later.

And if the hardware is modular and upgrade-able, that reduces the risk that hardware decisions now will be regretted in future.

I know MANY people want hardware controls, instead of all touch-screen controls which are hardware agnostic. For this, consider a hardware control panel that can easily changed later.

And consider making hardware controls and other "extras" generation 2 features which can ideally be retrofitted into generation 1. I think that getting something relatively inexpensive (Say, $300 max) out quickly is more likely to achieve something, while working on the true "perfect HU" could take years, and few may be able to afford it.
[Android Head-Units] TheSSJ:
Ah, and the power consumption in the mean time? I wouldn't say that the device will be in deep sleep the whole time, won't it?

But if we should begin wishing: Boot time of 1-2 seconds, then the HU should begin from the point it was shut down. This would imply a good hibernation (suspend to disk or SSD cache?) mechanism instead of a shutdown, then the power consumption is obviously in the clear
[Android Head-Units] doitright:
Your car battery can keep deep sleep going for over a YEAR.

Why wouldn't it be in deep sleep the whole time?
[Android Head-Units] hella356:
The biggest problem I see with Android HUs is that they seem to be designed more like tablets than car stereos. I'd like to see a HU with real focus on sound quality, with high-end 192Khz/24-Bit D/A converters (Wolfson / Burr-Brown level), highly adjustable digital crossovers with good subwoofer controls, time alignment, 4+ volt RCA outputs, SiriusXM input & controls, multiple rear USB 3.0 inputs for hi-rez FLAC files (capable of quickly reading tens of thousands of music files via SSD). I think a 720p screen would be a nice compromise. Personally, I would prefer NO built-in amplifiers, as I only use external amps. Having internal amplification just creates heat & wastes space within the unit, & they never sound anywhere near as good as external amps, but this wouldn't be a deal breaker for me as long as I have good line-outs.
[Android Head-Units] mikereidis:
How much are you willing to spend for such an HU ?

What about a modular HU that you can add your own D/A converters to via USB ?
[Android Head-Units] OlMightyG:
Scratch resistant because why not spending 5$ more and being save from inintentionally scratching the display while doing things in your car? :D

And I call that "out of the box I dont want to mess around everything can be modified".
[Android Head-Units] doitright:
How about multi-i2s output? :D

---------- Post added at 04:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 PM ----------

I've been communicating with someone on this forum who is trying to source out some si47912 or si47921 radio chips, which each have two stereo i2s output ports (i.e., 4 channel digital output), and 6 channel analog outputs. They both also have a slew of analog and digital inputs.

And looks like they can output up to 3.3V on the analog (1.8 on the digital, which is *perfect*).

My personal preference would be for the 47921, since it is a little bit simpler and therefore easier to work into a circuit. Downside on it is that it only has 3 stereo i2s inputs vs 5 on the 47912. The usefulness of the extra two ports would be questionable though. The SBC will use only one, and the AM/FM/LW/SW/WB/HD/DAB/DAB+/DMB radio is internal.
[Android Head-Units] hella356:
As of now my leading candidate unit is the Pioneer AVH-4100NEX. Retails for about $600, so considering the better feature set, around $800...maybe significantly higher. If it was a truly dynamite audio & functionality unit, it would be worth it. I realize my wish list is pushing it, but one can dream.
[Android Head-Units] mikereidis:
I have a 4100NEX for AA testing, and I'm happy with it in that role and think it's a good choice for after-market Android Auto. The only thing that annoys me is that it pulls over 1 amp of current with screen off and doing nothing (and puts out heat in the back), but maybe that's common with modern HUs; I have no experience with others.

Pioneer was the first with AA HUs, and that's due in part to the fact that they run Android underneath the UIs.

There is even a custom Android ROM now for some Pioneers, and that holds potential. I'd be interested in seeing it able to run any Android app at some point.
[Android Head-Units] lowridincrew,:
600 range is good for me. 700 is pushing it but it might be worth it if the hardware is good enough
[Android Head-Units] hella356:
A quality backup camera system would be great.