yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] letsief:
You seem to have some particular idea/scenario in mind, but I'm struggling to understand what it is.

First, do you agree that Luciano Carvalho said, or at least very strongly implied, that Motorola would be skipping 5.0 and jumping to 5.1 because of its build-in VoLTE support? If not, then we might as well stop there- the exact quote isn't up anymore, and they're not likely to accept the blog posts that were written.

It sounds like you're saying Motorola 1) ported Advanced Calling to v5.0, 2) tested it to a point they were comfortable with, 3) got no support from Verizon to release an update, and 4) decided to have an engineer make up a cover story about waiting for VoLTE support in v5.1.

That's exactly what I think. Maybe they started developing the 5.0 update, but decided it wasn't worth the effort after they learned 5.1 would have VoLTE support (which they probably found out about a couple/few months before its release).

Why do I think this?

That's what they said, and there's no particular reason to question it.

It seems like a rational decision to me. Why go to the trouble of porting Advanced Calling to v5 when an updating coming a few months later would just have you re-write it again (at least, if you wanted to use the native support)? This decision to wait makes even more sense in the context of all the problems that were reported on some of the early v5 builds that did go out.

Something similar happened before. Motorola skipped an update on the 2013 Droids when they knew another update would be coming along relatively soon. I suppose that was a cover story too...
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
First, no, I do not believe Motorola held off giving 5.0 to The Turbo due to VoLTE. I believe that was an excuse.

--No. That is what one person said.

Second, you seem to think everything gets erased and started over with when a new version of Android is released. It is simply not true. So knowing that Lollipop has been out for 9 months, and 5.1 for 4 of those, will you really sit there and say that is because of development time? Do you honestly believe that Motorola was twiddling their thumbs for 5 months and just started to work when 5.1 came out? Even if they did, the apparent hard part of VoLTE was done...so why 4 months again?

That is ludicrous. I am 100% certain they took an existing overlay for Quark and added the props and blobs for Verizon, then merged the 5.1 changes which are about as big a deal as 4.4.2 to 4.4.4 (which was menial). For a SINGLE XDA dev, that process takes about 3 days solid of work for a working build, and only if there is trouble. I refuse to believe that it took Motorola any longer, who most certainly has more than a single person working on it.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] letsief:
Well, for one, Advanced Calling is video calling plus VoLTE. The Nexus 6 includes VoLTE, but not video calling.

So, why exactly are the vast majority of the Moto X 2nd-gen phones only starting to get their 5.1 updates now?

Are all the carriers being extraordinary slow (a sort of a negative Lake Wobegon effect, I suppose)? Or is Verizon wield so much power that they can slow everyone down?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
And what exactly makes you think video calling is a difficult feature? They did it on Kitkat, after all.

Did they not have 5.0 before?

I really cannot fathom why you think it was easy to bring VoLTE to Kitkat, but a daunting task in Lollipop.

Do you understand the workings of Android at all?

As for carriers, they have all been slowing things down. The Turbo was an extreme case.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] letsief:
I'm not saying its a daunting task. I'm just saying that's something that wasn't handed to them as part of Android v5.1. So, they needed to write/port it, integrate it with the phone app, test it internally, and get it certified. Development is only one part of that.

You didn't answer my question. Are you saying that because the Moto X 2nd gen had already been updated to 5.0, Motorola wasn't in a particular hurry to update it to v5.1?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
And a lot of that is network infrastructure which was already in place. The Nexus 6 doesn't have it because Google does not particularly care to add closed source items to Nexus devices unless it is their own. Remember wifi calling that was missing? It was open sourced.

Thats is exactly what I am saying and history shows it. OEMs have always been faster to get out initial OS versions than point updates. This is nothing new. The exception is when it is an update the phone's released version.

Unless of course, its the Droid Turbo. A lot (most?) of it has to do with carriers give OEMs a limited amount of upgrade times and slots.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
Oh and to blow a hole in your theory, the Verizon Moto X 2nd Gen has an ota in soak right now....it does not support VoLTE.

So I guess Motorola wasn't waiting for 5.1 to enable VoLTE.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] windoge89:
This thread was derailed so hard like the lollipop on the 10th thread. Imo both should be closed. They don't seem to be too on topic
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] maflin18:
Agreed. Should be discussing the software being tested only. Which is nothing at this point until we receive the follow up email which will direct us to a private forum to discuss the software being tested.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
Software being tested shouldn't be discussed at all...
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Einsteindks:
If there isn't a one-time option to unlock the BL, then SOMEone owes us xt1254 phone users a late penalty for each day past the due date!
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] drexhex:
1. What makes you think Turbo owners are owed anything?

2. What due date?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Onismurai:
I just want to know when they can end this #$#$ soak.

But seriously, why they need a soak if after that they don't give an update? ....

Do as I say, not as I do.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] aviwdoowks:
Do you, for not hiding your signature too? ;)

Lol. Littering

That is only for readers that use older themes...
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] FragDroidX:
This.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] bjoostema:
Same ol' song and dance from the same ol' people regarding soaks and leaking. This isn't a thread about ethics. If someone isn't interested in getting info on the soak, I'm curious as to why anyone would put themselves through the trouble of participating in this thread then. Maybe I'm crazy, but if I feel something is truly against my code of ethics, I don't get involved just to throw my opinion around. Truthfully, no one here is gonna change anyone's mind about it being "wrong" and "right" so I don't think staying on topic is an unreasonable request. This is a site about development, which this pertains to, not ethics.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] RichSPK:
I didn't sign any NDA, and I'm interested in reading about ongoing developments related to my phone.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] volfan22:
Guys I had a dream last night that I got an OTA and it was only 22mb ? Haha
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] kwyrt:
Sounds more like a nightmare!
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
I want people to read it though. I want the person who said it to feel shame in every thread they enter and see it; they argued it for several pages without ever knowing what they were talking about.

Their tears of defeat are delicious.

Give it a bit longer and I shall delete it.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
Lets see:

Verizon saying the Turbo would have Lollipop soon and using it as a sales tactic (Pretty sure that one breaks some laws in places).

Verizon actually taking 9 months to approve Lollipop (assuming this is Lollipop).

Verizon saying the Turbo HAD Lollipop in documentation when it did not.

Verizon putting up an instructional simulator that had Lollipop installed, just to troll users.

I would say they are owed plenty.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] JasonJoel:
If you buy any product for anything more than it does at the time you buy it, plus what they are explicitly required to do per a contract, you are a rube.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
I do believe this thread is about getting an invite, and nothing at all about the soak itself.

You are obviously in the wrong thread.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
If a company sells a product and does not make good on written promises, they are a fraud. It goes both ways in this case.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] JasonJoel:
Verbal and written promises outside of a contract mean next to nothing legally. If it isn't in a contract, they don't have any obligation (more or less). And that means they are NOT a fraud legally. Words mean things, and fraud has a legal definition.

You can think them dishonest all you want. You can feel free to not like it all you want. And you can feel free to change carriers all you want. But getting mad about something they aren't legally required to do at all is pointless.

Would I like them to give me updates faster? Yes. Would I like better communication from them? Yes. Will I factor this into my next purchase decision? Yes.

Do they OWE me any of the above? No.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
That is completely false. I am sure Arizona is not alone, but both of those are legally binding contracts here. One is harder to prove than the other of course.

When you couple it with them using it as a way to sell more phones, it now becomes a potentially criminal matter if Verizon does not come out with Lollipop.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] GeoFX:
You already mentioned that you have long since given up the phone due to your work requirements but why are you still on a Droid Turbo forum acting like a self-appointed crusader to all those that are supposedly "owed" something by Verizon/Motorola? It's naive to think that a Lollipop upgrade would be a priority for Verizon/Motorola due to it being a carrier-exclusive with a low user-base compared against peers like the HTC M, Samsung Galaxies, Moto X, LG G series. These people bought a phone and now have to live with it. I seriously doubt any bit of complaining or whining on a message board would speed things up for them. On the other hand, there is most likely a majority of owners who are perfectly happy their Turbos running KK (and some even more with Mofo), enjoying the awesome battery life, the near stock experience, VoLTE, whatever, etc.. I seriously doubt that these people feel like they are "owed" anything or are losing sleep because an upgrade hasn't come and for sure Verizon/Motorola doesn't.

Yes I saw the ads about a "Lollipop upgrade coming soon, blah blah blah" when I purchased the phone. However, I wasn't naive enough to think Verizon/Motorola would actually be timely with upgrades given the fact, well, because it's Verizon we're dealing with. Maybe you should concentrate more on leveraging your development skills with the community than acting like an ALCU lawyer protecting the "meek" from the evils of corporate America. :)
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
Sorry Dad, am I no longer allowed here?

/me looks for the forum rule thats says you must only post in a forum for a phone you have.

What is your interest in me that you feel the need to try and police where and what I post on forums? It is a little creepy.

To answer your question though, it is to show support for Turbo owners.

I do plenty of development; 50 hours a week. People pay for it. I also develop things for my friends when they ask. I don't think I need to concentrate on development, but thank you for your concern.

Oh, and its ACLU, and they fight for civil rights. I don't think I am doing anything of the sort here, but maybe you know more about what I post than i do.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] GeoFX:
And who asked you for support? It seems like you're just wasting time time providing answers to questions nobody but a few of people actually asked. :confused:
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
Sorry, I didn't know I needed to be so literal for you.

Moral support, not technical support.

Let me ask you something, who asked you to stalk me? I'm starting to get concerned for your well being. It doesn't seem like a healthy activity.

You remind me of the friend who likes you so much, they follow you everywhere, and start wearing the same clothes, talking the same way....
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] GeoFX:
Stalk you? What? This is first thread where I've ever replied to you and I'm just posting my opinions just like you have been doing the entire thread. :confused: Ok...you win.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
Yay, I win! The stalker will leave me alone!
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] zefir738:
I think this thread should be closed, it's derailed hardcore.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Cobra04:
This thread should be closed
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] zathus:
Lol......
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] bigv5150:
Really police what you post in a forum. Isn't that what your doing here telling everyone what they can and can't post. What a joke grow up same beat same drum now you add being a hypocrite.

sent from "my kungfu is stronger then yours" XT1080
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
Another stalker? This one likes to call names too.

Hi!
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] pyro42:
normally I'd be ALL over joining a soak test, but with the sad state of our root exploit, I just don't know what to do. it's like I don't want to invest $20 in mofo if I won't be able to use it on lollipop, but I don't want to upgrade to lollipop incase it breaks mofo. I'm stuck in this weird limbo.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] kitcostantino:
Before this gets closed, I would like to say 2 things. 1) [MENTION=6314534]MarkAtMoto[/MENTION] it would be advantageous for Moto to try to find a way to convert Turbos that are off contract to Developer Edition devices. We are (obviously) the enthusiasts (myself) and devs who will test and tweak, and create new things that are beneficial to Moto. For free. The security is at critical mass. If this update kills all hope of an unsanctioned bootloader unlock, there are many, myself included, that simply are not going to stick with Moto. I love Moto, but honestly, bootloader unlock and root are that important to myself and many other members here, as I am sure you have noticed in your time here.

[MENTION=4767468]GeoFX[/MENTION] , [MENTION=2995749]adrenalyne[/MENTION] is someone who a) is an actual dev b) has accrued respect here. If he wants to comment on every phone, whether he owns it or not, he has earned that right. You may take issue with what he says (or you infer he says) but dude, he, much like yourself, has the right as a member to do exactly that. I Telling him he *shouldnt be here* is pretty backwards. Maybe reading up on who your arguing with, their credentials, posts, and their contributions to the community would be a better use of your time in that vein. Thank you, [MENTION=2995749]adrenalyne[/MENTION] for being here with us in a supportive role.

As far as the soak test goes, I hope this comes with a bl unlock by accident....because it would make Turbos fly off the shelves instantly. Win/Win. Heres to 5.1....hopefully
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] JasonJoel:
Clearly you are not a lawyer. As someone who has done quite a bit of business in Arizona, I know you would have 0% chance suing or receiving damages (as there aren't any).

But whatever this thread is so far off topic it will get closed soon and we'll all move on our way.

Let's hope lollipop gets pushed out soon.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] GeoFX:
I never said he "shouldn't be here" if you read my post a page back. That's what he inferred and you're going with that inference unfairly. All I questioned in a pretty polite tone, albeit with a little sarcasm (which is nothing compared to what he's been doing) was why he felt the need to act like some kind of crusader for customer's rights and expectations. Instead he fires back like he's been personally attacked and starts calling me a stalker and stuff. If the winning tactic here is to just bully your way to prove a point then fine. And based upon his replies and to a later poster, wouldn't you expect a little bit more maturity from a long-standing member? That's all.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
Thats funny.

Here is just a single example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_contract

Clearly you aren't a lawyer either, nor very good at research.

Lets see what an actual law firm says about it:

http://www.thompsonlawgroup.com/Business/Contracts.aspx

Verizon is selling the Droid Turbo with a feature that it is upgradeable to Lollipop and has been doing so for nine months. It is in writing. That absolutely is enforceable in a court of law and a class action lawsuit would be an easy win.

If you buy a phone due to Verizon selling it on that feature, and you did agree on a contract when you bought it, it is a contract. Period.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fraudulent_misrepresentation
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
In regards to being attacked, did you not focus every part of your post against me?

Sounds like the dictionary definition of an attack.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] JasonJoel:
Trust me, I am INTIMATELY familiar with oral contacts and the laws around them.

Just stick with being POed, and leave the legal interpretation to those who know it.

Or if you are so certain you have damages, sue them or start the class action lawsuit. Good luck.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
It wouldn't be the first time a company has been sued on fraudulent misrepresentation.

Don't be naive.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] JasonJoel:
You can sue for ANYTHING in the US. Might even get them to settle for a few bucks.

Or you may get classified as frivolous and get countersued for legal fees.

Regardless, this isn't legal advice from me. Feel free to pursue what ever avenues you want. Good luck.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
Oh good grief. Verizon has lost and settled various fraud lawsuits over the years. Don't act like they are a saint.

I wonder, are you a Verizon executive and is this hitting too close to home?

I agree though, this isn't a legal forum. Interesting that you brought up the legal binding portion of it first.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] CrazyRussianXDA:
[IMG="This thread is going places"]https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Fb200cf11da03c5fb0a57ebc86e1f29fd%2Ftumblr_inline_mrwhqtavEn1qz4rgp.gif&t=553&c=YdYKYjPl9FZI9Q[/IMG]
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Jaocagomez:
posting in a soon-to-be-closed thread!
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] GeodudeFFP:
Then they've already fulfilled the contract. "Upgradeable" is far different from" We will upgrade the device within such-and-such timeframe to version x".

But why must nearly EVERY discussion here turn into personal pi$$ing contests?

As I've said before, if you want to know why Washington, D. C. is so dysfunctional, just read almost any forum here...jeepers people, come on!
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] aviwdoowks:
Don't look at me. I did not push that triangle.

Mikey did it.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
My point was that they have to upgrade it. They haven't fulfilled any contract until the Turbo gets it. The original contention was that Turbo owners are owed nothing.

Well no, that is factually incorrect. They are owed Lollipop. I never said the speed of updates was breaking any contract. That is just unethical and douchey of Verizon, but unfortunately words like timely and soon have no time range.

If by dysfunctional you mean, people jump into forum discussions without reading the full background before replying and drawing conclusions, then yes I agree. You have illustrated it nicely.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] GeodudeFFP:
Don't worry I've read the forum. Try being nice...you might like it! :)
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
I had full intentions of being nice until you misunderstood the part of the discussion I was actually having and then referenced dysfunctionality to it. You might have meant them separately but thats not how it came out.

I reacted accordingly and added a little bit of an edge to my reply.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] DarkLey:
Vzw policy probably was "Every time someone post something whining or stupid on xda, we'll delay the update a week". That would explain the situation.

Seriously, I work as a dev too, but if you want to test something just use Genymotion. Dev or user, don't make your life around and update, don't expect nobody (person or company) to fullfill their promises and PLEASE respect the things you agree (like the NDA, there are lots of reasons to something like that to existals, from security reasons (like security bugs) to expectations (what if they found a bug so large that they decide to cancel the update for a while). Seriously, please don't discuss this things here, like professor Oak would say " there's a time and place for everything. But not now".
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] GeodudeFFP:
Yes, they were meant to be separate...but I'm sure that it certainly won't be the first time I misunderstand something!
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
I apologize. I'm a little edgy today.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Koneesha:
is it safe to come out?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] ilia3367:
You give up? Wimp! :laugh:
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
Its a Sunday. I need to have a day of rest.

/God-Complex off

:p
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] gqskrub:
Now that the fighting had stopped, here comes the lollipop!
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
[YOUTUBE]tIZ43V-3puc[/YOUTUBE]
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] FrostedWaffle:
Now if, hypothetically, I asked an imaginary person if the soak was for lollipop and that "person" had the soak, would he/she/it be able to tell me whether or not the soak might be for lollipop?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] koftheworld:
No but I'm sure the news will be all over the usual sites regardless of the NDA.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] theatomizer90:
Don't make me regret posting this.....
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] ChazzMatt:
Yes, because Motorola has officially announced publicly it's for Lollipop. That's why Moto Mark in this thread is a joke. Motorola senior software developer has announced the soak tests for Lollipop on his G+ blog. If he can do it, you can do it.

I'm not talking about sharing files and such. But Motorola themselves have publicly announced the soak tests for Lollipop, so you can too. It's NOT a secret, no matter what Moto Mark says.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] FrostedWaffle:
Really? I haven't seen this post. Can u link it for me?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] PittAussie:
The only announcements David Schuster has made are that the E, G, and X series have begun soak tests for Lollipop.

Since it would appear that the Turbo is still at the soak test "Invite" stage, I wouldn't expect any public announcement until the soak test commences. Then if Moto wishes to make it public knowledge they will. Right now it is not intended for public knowledge.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] maflin18:
Why is the 'invite' stage talking so long is what I want to know.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] koftheworld:
Typical. It's probably the log jam from all of the other soaks going on and/or not enough people responding to the invite and/or they just hate us.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] johnbravado:
I would say it is a little more like they hate us. we are the red headed step child that no one wants to talk about over at verizon and motorola