yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[X 2014 General] grubber24:
Done. Will update if i get any response from motorola!

I love Stock Android on the Moto X 2014 ?
[X 2014 General] adm1jtg:
Would it be possible for someone to look into unlocking the developer settings in moto camera like I posted earlier and post a list of recommended settings to change other then resolution. Things like qc denoise, morpho denoise, luma adaptation ect.

Here is a link on how to unlock the developer settings:

http://xdaforums.com/moto-g/general/how-to-unlock-advanced-camera-settings-t2884035

A very simple change to build.prop enables them

Thanks in advance if we can make this work right we wont have to lose twist for camera assuming with those settings the camera can be equal to the third party replacement cameras that have been discussed.
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
I have played a lot with all of these features.

You can keep QC denoise off, rather can get little bit better detailed 13MP shots with minimum artifacts thought RAW grain will be there, especially in higher ISO low light shots. But images will be more sharper and detailed. 8/5MP shots will also have more details.

Turning Morpho Denoise off stops filtering out the colourfull fine noise which is different than the QC Denoise and IMO it makes things worse. Do not temper with it.

But if you want to get maximum out of the camera and ready to fix the noise problems yourself in the post processing then you can keep both of them off. But fixing the noise will be time consuming stuff. Haven't noticed any effect of turning Luma adaption on-off.

Before finding out this low resolution magic, shooting with QC denoise off was my best bet and I have clicked around 90% of my shots with keeping QC denoise off. But now things are different after finding this new magic. :D

Do experiment, there is always scope of improvement. :)
[X 2014 General] Feahnor:
This is no magic, this is only the beneficial effects of downsampling, nothing more, nothing less.
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
Its simply not that, its not downsamppling.

If you believe so then shoot few pics in 13MP and downsize them in image editor, also click same shots in in 8/5MP modes and yourself see the difference.

Its very easy to come and comment without even bothering to read whats been written compared to really performing the tests.

Everything was explained in detail in the opening post.

:)
[X 2014 General] Feahnor:
I did try. I didn't find any differences.
[X 2014 General] imaginaryenemy:
I read everything you wrote and looked at all of your examples before replying to this thread. I'm sorry if I lead you to believe my response was uninformed. In ALL of your examples, the only noise that is being reduced is noise that adds details. Yes, the photos are ugly, but they are still just as ugly without the noise, just a less detailed ugly. Smooth does not mean better when it is smoothing out details. I started to name examples from your photographs, but it applies to all of your examples.

I am not trying to demean all of your research. If you like it better, than I am glad you found something that works. Just remember, the "quality" you are talking about is SUBJECTIVE, not OBJECTIVE. You may like it better, but that does not mean that it IS better. Your "more desirable" and mine are clearly different.

I love my Moto X 2nd Gen, but no matter how you try to spin it, unless the light is great, the camera just isn't anything special.
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
Thanks for your inputs, really appreciate that.

One humble request, could you please click few shots in 13MP, 8MP and 5MP and show the comparisons which can clarify the detail loss is substantial between high and low resolution shots? that will really be helpful. :)
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
Ok, here is a blind test

Posting cropped portions from shots captured in 13MP and 8Mp modes. 2 are in one resolution mode and one is in another.

All these shots captured in modified stock camera app with QC Denoise off so that there is minimum loss of details due to noise filtering.

Requesting all of the fellows to please find out and tell which two are captured in the same resolution and which are taken in different resolution. Also which shot feels most and least detailed out of these? These are titled as A, B and C. :)

Exif : 1/121 sec, ISO-50, Daylight

Download and Open these shots on your computer screens:

crop at actual 100% size

crops upsized to 400% to magnify the pixels.

I am still waiting for the comparisons from those who believe otherwise :)
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
Another blind test.

This time smaller resolution images were upsized to match 13MP, not downsized.

Pick which one is 13MP, 8MP and 5MP and which shot has got most and least details?

:)

Please have a look, download and see these images on your computer screens:

Magnified pixels:

100% zoom level of 5MP shot:
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
Here is something for those who believe the noisy artifacts caused by the inbuilt sharpening filter of the camera firmware are actually details:

View attachment 3379310
[X 2014 General] imaginaryenemy:
To be clear: I don't think the detail loss is substantial. I think the fact that there is ANYdetail loss makes the idea of shooting at a lower megapixel not a viable "fix" for a poor camera.

I have limited time in my day, so I have just marked on one of your examples the detail loss I am talking about.

I am not sure the language this is written in (Hindi?), but in the areas I circled, the 13MP (the one on the left) it is very clear what the characters are, where as in the 8MP (on the right) they look VERY different. Since I don't speak the language, I don't know if it changed what is intended or not.

I also circled what appeared to be a wrinkle or crack in the ink of the ad. In 13MP all of that damage is clear to see, where as the 8MP it looks less damaged (making the photograph inaccurate).

I hope you understand my perspective a little better now.
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
You are right in GENERAL but I already cleared that I was not generalizing, my post was all about the MotoX camera. The optics and the image software part are suitable to 13MP captures, rather the sharpening filter is spoiling the 13MP pictures by causing unwanted artifacts. They are best suited to anything below 8MP for now, thats the whole point I am trying to convince here.

Now important thing is that clicking in less than 8MP mode are yielding far greater details than the native 8MP or lower resolution cell phone cameras, for example MotoG or so.

There maybe any other factor for this details loss, like focus, camera shake etc. Why would I post something written in a language which is not understood by the majority of people here? This shot was to highlight the ugly artifacts which I have been talking about, which are clearly visible in the circled area marked by you, thanks for the efforts. For the text readability test, I posted another shot which I guess you have seen and that is in all English. :)

I am understanding your perspective, even it was hard for me also to believe that clicking at lower resolution can be good idea but it turned out to be good overall in my 'extensive' testings.

To clarify my perspective, I made three more posts today, please have a look whenever you have spare time. Even a DSLR shot is also there in one of the sample for reference. Maybe you can also start believing like me that sometimes thumb rules also can be wrong. :)

Again requesting that please do you tests also, please capture few shots in the 13MP as well as in the 8MP/4:3 and 5MP/4:3 modes. :)

Arguments and discussions are better than non-discussed beliefs. I may also be wrong, so please keep countering. :)
[X 2014 General] Mocha_Bean:
I'm guessing there's no modified version of the Lollipop Motorola Camera?
[X 2014 General] alvareo:
This is false. Motorola's post-processing awful and ruins perfectly good photos. The sensor found on the 2014 X is also on the Galaxy Note 3, the LG G2 and the G3, all of whom take MUCH better pictures without any kind of "magic".
[X 2014 General] imaginaryenemy:
I didn't take the photos, so I have no idea what possible factors could be involved in quality loss. You provided the examples, so I assumed they were fit for examination. I was merely pointing out quality issues with your lower resolution photos. If there are quality issues different than the issues being discussed, maybe you should remove them as to not confuse the point.

As for todays pictures:

In the first set, A is the most pleasing to my eye. I am anxious to hear which setting it was.

In the second set, I'm not sure any of these are good enough to pick a "winner". All appear to be grainy and lack sufficient detail to look good. All too similiar.

In the third set, the Nikon obviously looks as you would hope. The Moto X photos from good to bad: 5MP, 8MP, 13MP. However, this is due to the size of the photos. When all sized the same, the 5MP and 8MP have no obvious advantage in quality.

Maybe a better test would be to take high quality photos is good lighting (similar to the first set of today's photos). As it stands now, We are being asked to pick the best of a bad thing, and that doesn't help solve anything. It is possibly two different kinds of bad (smooth and lacking detail vs over sharpened and grainy), but bad is bad. Kind of like saying that dying in a plane crash is better than dying in a car crash. Who cares, they both would suck.
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
Please prove it by putting some comparative examples. :)
[X 2014 General] alvareo:
Sure, as soon as I get my hands on my mother's G3. In the meantime feel free to google the loads of comparative tests that most likely have been done comparing both cameras.
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
A and C are same shot, 8MP. C is unprocessed and in A, sharpen filter was applied in Photoshop. B is 13MP.

Point was no sense to shoot 13 MP, 8MP and 5 MP are better suited for current inbuilt software algorithm applied by the Motorola camera firmware, I hope now I am clear on my point. :)
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
Also do not forget to take the 8and 5 MP shots with the MotoX using one of the app I mentioned earlier, please. :)
[X 2014 General] imaginaryenemy:
No. Your point was not made. The best looking photo (to me) only looked the best (apparently) because it was post processed. All you proved was that this camera only produces good photos if they are Photoshoped.

Again I say, it's all about taste. You found a way to make yourself happier with your camera. That's great. I, personally, am happy with the 13 MP results and seed no need to lower the quality.

Taken with my Moto X 2nd Gen. 13MP.
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
So its the artifacts caused by the sharpening filter which is been liked here and been taken as 'lost details'? Be it by the human in image editor or be it by the camera's inbuilt software?

I wanted to get rid of the artifacts caused by the inbuilt sharpening filter of camera software which is better suited for the less than 8MP shot for now (till Motorola fixes this flaw for their high resolution cameras). If I want much more sharper image then I can apply sharpening to my own taste, afterall all images are different and one default algorithm can't be applied on all of them.

Are these crops or full images downsized into these smaller sizes?

Look downsized and compressed images to me.

I was posting crops at full resolution so that pixels level details and artifacts can be seen easily, I expect same in the reply. Would have liked to see full resolution images or atleast full size crops. Nothing can be assessed in these tinny and highly compressed images.

Attaching zip of full resolution images of my ABC example post with exif details intact:

View attachment FullResolutions.zip
[X 2014 General] grubber24:
I tried to view your samples on a 32 inch led tv! I can say that the images shot with 5mp/8mp have been much better than the ones shot with 13mp. I did not view the zoomed in croped images though. I think you have a valid point that dropping the resolutions will definately help in getting better images. I could note some difference even in nature's photos in bright day light. Using "A better Camera".

People who have been saying that it results in loss of details, please consider other factors like manual focus and camera movements while viewing the images zooming in.

I love stock android on my Moto X
[X 2014 General] 0.0:
I do see that the lower resolution of pictures allow for "better" images, but could it be that since the resolution is smaller, it hides the problems since it is smaller to see? I am not a picture expert, but I probably will still use the 13mp option. I also use the dev options in moto cam and turn of QC Denoise to improve pic quality
[X 2014 General] imaginaryenemy:
I uploaded the images directly from my gallery using the Tapatalk app. Check the exif data. Nothing was done to these images at all. These are full resolution.
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
Have explained every bit earlier. Its combination of incapable tinny sensor, extremely low dynamic range, mediocre optics and unsuitable sharpening which can't be bypassed right now. All these factors make a combination which is not capable in capturing details in such depth which justifies a picture size of 13MP (in most conditions).

We are capturing just useless increased number of pixels on the name of so called 13MP.

Have clicked 5000+ shots so far and mostly have been with QC DNoise off but till than I knew only that much to get maximum out of this camera. Now things have changed.

If its been a dedicated camera which has got good sensor, good optics and there hadn't been any flawed software filtering then I wouldn't have agreed to capture at smaller resolution at any cost, even if the final required output size of the image was much smaller. Rather I would have preferred to capture the shot at max resolution, post process it then resize it into desired size. Thats what my usual workflow is.

I thought it will help the community but I guess no sense in stretching this topic now because many others are not even willing to do a single experiment themselves, forget about expecting different condition experiments. Companies and their marketing departments have made them believe in that the megapixels is everything when it comes about choosing a photography equipment.

13MP? My god, that is too much to ask from such size and such quality sensors and optics. This humble MotoX is atleast doing good job by picking up some acceptable details, most of the other popular and famous flagships are so badly messing with the pictures that one can't make out if those are photos or oil paintings, I can't explain it.

Such mobile photos look good only in thumbnail size or when viewed on tinny mobile screens. As soon as they are opened on big motions or got printed, all the flaws and ugliness is vomited out.

One gentleman claimed the G3 is much better and asked to search on google for G3 samples so putting one example here:

Here is the full 13MP resolution shot taken from LG G3: http://pocketnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/20140607_145000.jpg

look at few crops from the above image at 100% levels, same like my earlier posts:

And here is the magnified of image of the same to show pixels at 400% :

(Copyright : respective image owner)

Similar stories with Samsung Galaxy G5, G6 etc. Their aggressive image processors eat up all the fine details on the name of making those pictures clear. And those pictures are usually appreciated by most of the users because they look 'neat n clean' on tinny mobile screens. But what when one asks if those pictures really have data worth 13MP or 16MP?

Please see these on monitors.

Not willing to pay more efforts on putting more examples.
[X 2014 General] sexton.christian:
I want to see your work, where are they published?
[X 2014 General] rufik:
[MENTION=5914938]Jack Sparrow xda[/MENTION] You've mentioned about setting 4:3 ratio. What about 16:9 ratio? Can I set 16:9 ratio and 8.3MP / 6MP size?
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
Set 16:9 of 8 MP, that's 6MP.
[X 2014 General] scoliosis:
Doesn't the software use more of the pixels overlap to capture more light when using <13mp? The graininess is mainly due to the dense sensor dots packed close to each other and bleed across. It's a standard technique used in SLRs to capture cleaner pictures in low light conditions (given same lens and stabilized on a tripod, etc...)
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
There is actually flaw in the internal software processing of the Motorola camera which is suitable only for images captured at <8MP. Pictures captured in 13MP resolution come up with strange artifacts. The whole exercise is to get rid of those artifacts, thats it.
[X 2014 General] grubber24:
Now the updated camera app takes better pics than ever before. Tried using both 13mp and 9.7mp. Both look awesome even on a 28" TV. Hope you liked it!

Sent from my XT1092
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
9.7 MP is just cropped version of 13MP. Those ugly artifacts are still there in 13MP mode even the updated app. Again try to click in true 8MP using third party app after the updated app and see if you can find any difference, I am still sticking to 8MP.
[X 2014 General] grubber24:
I tried using A better camera but except the night mode, i prefer the stock camera now. I didnt see any artifacts in the stock cam after the update. As per your suggestion, i am sticking to 9.7mp which gives better quality.
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
If you are liking the stock app results then better to stick with 13MP because 9.1 is just cropped 16:9 format of the original 13MP, its not actual lower resolution. You are getting images after edge cropping where images captured in portrait format will look odd when you will see them on big screens or print them.

Anyways, the new app brings some additional noise filtering which will go away as soon as you wipe the cache partition. :)
[X 2014 General] dcuttler:
A very interesting article.

I just purchased a Moto X 2nd Gen, and was dissatisfied with the camera, so I did as you suggested, and installed "A Better Camera," and set it to 8mp 4:3. While the photos are much better, it only saves the Image to 3.8mp. This is rather odd, and I just send an inquiry to the company that makes this app.

I really do want to get it corrected, because then I can leave My Olympus M4/3 cameras at home. One of the features I really like is having a histogram. I use a histogram on all of my real cameras, and using it to set the exposure never fails.

Regards,

David
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
Did you use full version or the free version? Maybe they have restrticted the resolution in the free version. You can use "Open Camera" or Google Camera which also allow changing the restitution. Though Google has removed the camera app from the play store and restricted it only for Nexus series but you can find APK file and install it manually.

I am using ProCapture full version these days in 8MP mode.
[X 2014 General] Feahnor:
This weekend I've made LOTS of tests and I don't find any improvement in image quality other than what the downsampling brings to it. I tried 3 moto x, so it's not my unit.
[X 2014 General] dcuttler:
Google Camera App

Jack,

I used the unlocked paid version of A better Camera.

Since then I downloaded and installed the Google Camera APK as you suggested, set it to 8 mp, and it appears to work well with it set as my default. For most pictures I have the exposure is set to -1 to prevent the highlights from blowing out. Another benefit to this Camera app, is after taking the picture, I can hit the image button in the lower RH corner, which opens the photo, and hitting the edit button takes it directly into Snapseed, which I have set as the default editor for Google Camera. This makes for a very nice work flow for a smart phone.

When using other camera apps, I would be required to leave the camera app, open Snapseed on its own, and then open an image to edit, and then work my way back to the camera app.

The one thing I miss with Google Camera, is no histogram, but I can make minor adjustments in post if needed using the Histogram in Snapseed. with a -1 exposure, post editing is seldom required.

I will keep A better camera, and Open Camera in the Moto X 2nd Gen as a backup for awhile, but I suspect I will seldom use them, and will end up uninstalling them later. The original camera app that came with the moto X is now disabled.

Thanks again for the good advice regarding using lower capture settings.

Regards,

David
[X 2014 General] Jack Sparrow xda:
Better to leave the HDR mode on and set 8 mp size in Google camera and use it to capture second shot of important scenes. If you have stable hands, you can capture far better shots using HDR in g cam. Use open cam or better cam apps as primary apps.

I keep the default cam enabled so that i can use quick access feature when needed, also the video recording is simpler in the deafault app.

I have tested many cellphone cameras and found that MotoX2 is capable of capturing decent photos given that you know how to extract the best out of it.

Camera is important feature for me and after figuring out the working way, i don't see need of replacing my phone for the sake of better camera.
[Sony Xperia M2] TrickiePad:
Hello,

Good news: http://developer.sonymobile.com/201...-xperia-devices-in-sonys-open-device-program/

Be aware; no modem and camera (yet).

Thanks Sony for the good work!
[Android Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] farhan_mfh:
Just 5 is mobile company you can check just5.com

model name is --- Just5 Spacer

i have used wrong recovery.img for CWM

now its bootloop

please help me
[Android Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] NIKON1:
for Spacer 2S https://cloud.mail.ru/public/6nBr/fphVqpuX2
[Xperia Z3 Compact Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eranyanay:
Hi everyone, I recently got my z3c.

There are several apps I'm not interested in so I just went to settings - apps and disabled them.

Unfortunately, after reboot they are all enabled again.

Any ideas why?
[Xperia Z3 Compact Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Dsteppa:
You can just root your phone and freeze the apps you don't want. I had the same issue when root wasn't available, before you disable the app(s) you don't want, you also have the option to delete cache and data, delete those first and then disable the app.
[Xperia Z3 Compact Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eranyanay:
Hi, I'm well aware of the rooted option but I want to know if there's any way without doing so
[Xperia Z3 Compact Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] scottjb:
Which apps? I have 26 apps disabled and they stay that way with no root.
[Xperia Z3 Compact Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eranyanay:
These ones:

View attachment 3374088

I don't want them running. I know that if I'm using stamina it wont be doing anything in the background but while my phone is on their services does work and I don't want that.
[General Questions and Answers] theboywonder:
looking to spend about $400 max on a new, unlocked device.

she isn't super picky and is coming from a Note 2. the one thing she'd like is smoothness/speed, decent camera and build quality.

i have contemplated the following:

ZenFone 2 (i don't like the bloat, the battery and camera issues)

OPO (sold out and poor customer service)

LG G2 (getting long in the tooth/not future-proof at all)

Moto X 2nd Gen (perhaps too underpowered?)

LG G3 (pricey, getting older, battery life issues)

i think the G3 and the Moto X 2nd Gen are at the top of our lists.

what are your thoughts? thank you!
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] WDawn:
I'd like to develop some basic app that changes some settings in my device. (brightness, volume, connections enables etc). I have some basic knowledge about programming.

I'm looking for a good tutorial for an almost n00b. Any ideas?
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Rudegar:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=289170&highlight=developing

and in general the developing forum

also codeguru.com have stuff

if there are no wm6 stk out yet for the most parts

wm5 is compatible