yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] _Dennis_:
That's not an issue inherent to Android TV, that is a function of the play store.

Don't get me wrong I'll probably try your ROM at some point. I make my own opinions, so I'm constantly trying new stuff.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] zulu99:
No problems. we are here to discuss like good friends. I'm writing from Shield Console in a beautiful Chrome Browser at 220 dpi.

I like to discuss and hear the opinions of others.

I have only one big problem, my bad english. I'm Italian
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] _Dennis_:
Its OK, I'm pretty good at understanding, my wife is Filipino and I lived in Japan for 3 years.

I may attempt to mess with some settings (I noticed a TV setting in build.prop) to see if I can get full play store use without changing much, mainly so anyone can use what ROM they want while getting access to both stores :) I see that as the best of both worlds.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fredphoesh:
I have a minix neo x8h+ and this box is "seen" by the play store as a leanback compatible box, but it also has access to all the android apps... so this may be a build.prop worth looking at?

I am getting an Nvidia console in a couple of weeks and would love to use leanback BUT not with the added hassle of installing and running non leanback apps.

tx Mark.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] _Dennis_:
Sure, I'd be willing to take a look. I need to re-root my NP since I just put M back on it :)
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] zulu99:
Try to install Google Plus on your Minix X8 from Google Play and you will understand that also with it you can't install many apps ( very limited )

Some years ago, i wrote in google plus how make the minix x8 compatible with all others apps.

The problem is that based on permissions of the firmware system/etc/permissions and others parameters in build.prop

Google Play permit to install some apps and not others.

Leanback permissions are not compatible with others permissions.

If a person remove leanback permissions in the Android TV firmware, google play magic transform itself in another more familiar version but you break many things inside the Android TV firmware.

The best way to have all, is with a full Android firmware. Because with it you can run also leanback-only apps.

Android TV is made to limit you. Whether you like it or not.

Another thing to not forget, is that the default 320 dpi in build.prop are not good for 80% of all classic apps. Open Chrome Browser at 320dpi and at 220dpi on your tv box to understand.

At 320dpi you will see the most messed up thing of your life :)

Another thing is that the status bar is very important for many apps, in full Android you can hide it with force immersive when you want, instead on Android TV you are not compatible.

Don't lose your time, first or before you need full Android. But if you use only apps to see videos, Android TV is good.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fredphoesh:
Hey zulu99, in your opinion, what is the difference in functionality between using a custom rom like yours and using the stock rom bit with nova launcher? Are there any advantages of one over the other?

Tx

Mark
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] .Ne0:
From my experience of Shield Pro...

Android TV is NOT full Android (does NOT have all the android components)

The missing components can be easily downloaded and installed through Google play.

Example:

Request Google Chrome to be installed on your Android TV, from a browser on another device. You will find that your device is installing the Android web component, before it installs Google Chrome. You will also find, that you need to connect a mouse(which is luckily supported on Shield TV) to use Google Chrome on Android TV device.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] lartomar2002:
What other components need to be installed so as to have the full android experience?
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] zulu99:
Replicate all this very simple things with Android TV and try to install all apps directly from Google Play to better understand. :)

The browser at 320 dpi and 220 dpi on a TV, like many others classic apps, is a completly different story.

In the videos you can see my Shield Console.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDG9X_Q_E60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqWLisFurpU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g99Hc68lpA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t69d_9kUbXs

---------- Post added at 08:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 PM ----------

One million, you will understand over the time. Don't worry.

But you're free to use whatever you want. The important thing is to have the choice.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] d-dragon:
Finally you've hit the nail on the head. The choice is the biggest difference between both and is most likely based on the scenario in which you use it. If you prefer an interface made for touch and don't mind setting up a connection through Droidmote to control your set-top box with its remote, then by all means do that. However if you don't mind sideloading a ton of apps and updating those manually and prefer an interface build for directional keys, then do that. Either solution is fine depending on your preference.

My personal preference is somewhere in between. I would love to have the leanback launcher available on full android, to switch in and out of whenever I prefer. So I can use regular android when I have my touchscreen connected and still be able to control it with directional keys if it is hooked up to my TV. For those of you that are familiar with Steam's Big Picture mode, that's approximately what I would like to see, a flexible solution which I can fit to my needs whenever I desire. Will Android TV bring such a solution, I don't know, probably not in the short term, as I desire more complex functionality than the average joe(which is Google's main target group). Will Android bring such functionality, once again probably not anytime soon, but untill then I'll hang around on XDA in search of the tools (like multirom) to realise it.

[MENTION=1469500]zulu99[/MENTION] I respect you as a developer, droidmote has saved my day so many times I've lost count, but I think you should stop trying to convince people Android TV is a bad product. Yes it has its flaws but it is still young. Those users that desire Android's full functionality will find your rom themselves after they've encountered Android TV's limitations. Trying to pursuade them before they've seen Android TV's limitations for themselves will only lead to the frustation of yourself and those that cling to Android TV. I hope you don't take my thoughts as an insult, because the last thing I want to do is insult anyone here, instead I hope we can all just get along Android and Android TV users alike.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] zulu99:
I respect your words. Much more than you can imagine.

But many users do not know how much work is required to make a firmware like this.

Instead of say thanks, at least for the choice, i read many nonsenses.

I confess that at that point I had fun teasing the NOOBS.

I'm sorry for that.

Apart from all this, the serious message that I want to leave, and please trust my words, is to be careful to large companies. They are ruining the world of IT creating walled gardens. They propose security and ease of use but the real purpose is only to protect their economic interests.

Too many economic interests will destroy the beautiful Android world.

You can solve this situation voting with your wallet.

But Thanks for your message. After your words i will try to help also the Android TV world.

We are a big family, all Android lovers.

I love Android in Tv, i work on it four years before the advent of Android TV. DroidMote is the proof of my love.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] d-dragon:
[MENTION=1469500]zulu99[/MENTION] thanks for the honest response, much appreciated! I too hope Android will continue to grow to empower the user rather than limiting them. It's true sometimes companies use the "but then people will get confused/break it" excuse all too often. Sometimes even for commercial reasons. But overall I really like where Android has come over the past few years, so let's hope Android TV will follow suit.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] lartomar2002:
[MENTION=1469500]zulu99[/MENTION] "I confess that at that point I had fun teasing the NOOBS.

I'm sorry for that."

Don't be sorry just please give the noobs the help we need. We all had to start somewhere. Noobs donate also or at least this one does.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] zulu99:
We are all NOOBS, Also i when not know some things. Some times i'm a big NOOB. But the beauty is that every day we can learn more and more.

The phrase that best represents me is: " I'm at your disposal "

So if i can share the little things that i know, i'm very happy.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] .Ne0:
Nevermind, I am having trouble getting Android Notifications list on Shield pro.

No status bar, no notifications pull down

:(
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Idan73:
You are talking about your android TV firmware and not [MENTION=1469500]zulu99[/MENTION] custom full android? Right?

Note 4 ?
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] .Ne0:
Right.

Original Android TV OS doesn't seem to have the "Notifications list" component.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Idan73:
Oh. That's not the only thing it's missing on Android TV, but eh

Note 4 ?
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] zulu99:
Today i tested the new Android preview M ( second edition ) on Nexus Player to see if i can root and my DroidMote Server work well.

All ok, but i must confess, that even with all effort, i was able to use Android TV for only 15 minutes.

For a person like me so used to full Android seem a jail.

rooted,tested and trashed.

I'm very sorry friends Android TV is not for me. I tried to find something good but i did nod succeed.

But surely it is my fault.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fredphoesh:
Hi Dennis,

I have uploaded and attached here a zip of my build.prop here from the MINIX NEO X8H+ which can see all market apps AND shows up as an android TV device, so for example, TuneIn radio is the leanback version instead of the normal phone/tablet version.

I hope that helps!
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] _Dennis_:
I'll try to look. I can't promise anything and I am using M preview and I don't have root and such.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] coreo:
thanks Zulu good rom so far...any chance of getting the remote working?

thanks again..
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fredphoesh:
No no no

On Android TV there is no recent apps toggle, no way to switch between them. There is no notification bar. There is no full quota of system settings. HALauncher makes life a lot easier as it is very similar to leanback launcher and the bug plus is you can show, categorise and order all your side loaded apps... Way better than chainfire's offering.

To say Android TV is as capable as plain android is just not true. You can put Andriod on a PC... Does not mean a PC can do everything an android can do.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kgersen:
You're confusing apps and OS.

At the programmer level (which I am) , Android TV et Android are the same thing. In fact there is more things you can do on Android TV.

The 'capable' and missing features you see is a voluntary behavior so the system can be used with a TV remote and only a TV remote. There is no point having a complete smartphone behavior on a TV. no point confusing people with 'touch or mouse' features on a TV.

Also, a TV is not a 'private' system like a smartphone (private => single user), having notifications and email and whatnot and other 'personal' stuff on it , make no real sens here. They choose to hide these, with good reason. They also choose simplicity everywhere (settings, launcher, preinstalled Google apps) because of the limited interactions you can do with a TV remote.

The target is the general audience not the tech savvy 'hacky' population.

If you live alone and want to use Android TV as a more complete personal system with personal stuff on it, you can either sideload 'personal apps' or wait for people to develop specific apps.

For example, for notification: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.cyberdream.androidtv.notifications.google

The problem with Android TV is that people want it for what it's not designed for, or they misunderstood what it was designed for and how.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fredphoesh:
really, like what?

I disagree. Dumbing something down, giving no options for basic things like alt-tabbing recent apps, or being able to use a mouse on the interface, or opting to see apps that are not in the little glass bubble of android tv, removing these from view and making it impossible to overcome these issues without hacking the device, may be how it is "designed" but makes it far less capable than standard android. It's like having a sports car with a governor set to 25mph. I would not call that car "more capable" than the sports car without the governor.

Aside from this silly discussion, the box is highly impressive, runs apps, movies, games, BEAUTIFULLY... by far the best android box I have used.

Mark.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kgersen:
Some main features that make Android TV what it is:

- searchable Apps (with voice mainly). Works with compatible Android TV apps (must support the API).

- personalized home screen (recommendations and whatnot like MRU content for instance)

- background play while the launcher is active (the app keep displaying content while the system launcher is above)

- Cast Receiver (not 100% Android TV specific , it's just an app but so far not available for plain Android).

What a strange definition of "dumbing down"...

"mouse on the interface" on a TV device ...

without hacking ? installing FS Explorer and HA Launcher is hacking ?

Your car analogy is completely wrong. It's not about limiting performance , it's about the overall user experience. Much like a powerful but simple and easy to use car with a few buttons (if any button at all) vs a total mess of a car with hundreds of buttons and levers and different ways of doing the same things.

And yes this is a very silly discussion , like always with 'tech savvy' people in these forums (or who think they're savvy) who never make the effort to 'fit the shoes and see the world as an average person' to understand these design decisions. Why are these people so self-centered ? I just don't get this: do they really think big brands like Google or Samsung or Apple or whatever will make products aimed at a minority ?
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fredphoesh:
Hmm, and wow.

The searchable apps is no better than google now on regular android, actually it is not as good

The "personalised" home screen is absolutely useless and irrelevant... just a nuisance, not a feature at all.

Regular android can play background while you are at the home screen, I do this all the time with spotify or TuneIn radio.

Casting apps have been available on Android long before Android TV existed... so. not much to write home about then!

Now you are being a hypocrite. You say that some people (who are not as intelligent as you are} will expect Android TV to be something it is not, ie a very user friendly system which does not need a mouse or anything other than a basic remote to do everything you need to do.. but then you say that sideloading apps is part of this normal use for the average joe? Come on now, you can't have it both ways.

Ah, perhaps you will just never get it because you are so way above everyone... hard to see us mere mortals way down here who just think we are tech savvy... ironic when you say it is we who cannot or do not make the effort to see the world as an average person... when doing that must be an insanely hard task for someone so clever.

We obviously disagree, so why are you in a discussion about custom roms when that is clearly not something you agree with for Android TV?
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kgersen:
It's basically the same kind of search api as Google Now (SearchableActivity) but whatever "it is not as good"... it's up to the apps to implement it , not the OS. Lacks of apps that support it, is the issue here. Even Netflix don't play along here, they don't want to use that feature, they prefer that people stay inside their app. (full details on the API). I find it useful and well thought that a search at the top level (launcher) can propagate to installed apps and then consolidate all the results on the list. It's very handy on a TV.

Personalised screen: that's our opinion.I find it usefull. NVidia uses it as MRU (most recently used) entry for gaming for instance.

It's not background audio only, it's full background running like still displaying graphics, video, etc. (the apps must support it).

It's not casting apps, it's a casting receiver: acting as chromecast. you can do that only with a Chromecast or Android TV.

I was just replying to the fact that sideloading is not what I call 'hacking' like you did. (reread that part in your posts up).

I never said the normal use for the average joe is to sideload or other stuff flike that. it's not.

It's for the 'tech savvy' who eventually wants to do more like plugging a mouse to use non TV apps. You can do it without doing extreme hacking like rooting or replacing the ROM.

I don't pretend to be above everyone. Quote me if I did ?

I'm in this discussion about custom roms because people called Android TV '****' on false facts like it's not a 'full Android' and other things like that etc so it needs to be replaced with a custom ROM based on full Android. I don't think it needs. I just think people need to understand the difference between apps and OS, launcher and OS, pre-installed apps and regular apps, etc and understand the intent of the people at Google who designed Android TV.

ofc people are free to do whatever they want and like whatever they want. But new comers here might want to read an insight from the 'other side'too and then make their own opinion instead of blindly repeating 'Android tv is ****' simply because they read it.

I'm just "a self appointed Android TV evangelist" , nothing more.

edit: some typos.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] zulu99:
With full Android we can do all, also transform it in Android TV :) instead in Android TV we can run well just Android TV apps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0uFJWIcIXM

In Android TV also if you sideload, the result is different and many apps are not working or not working well.

Why ?

Android tv have default screen density at 320 dpi and 90% of standard android apps looks very bad at this density. Try Chrome at 320dpi and 220dpi to understand.

In Android TV you can't access the up right menu of 90% apps, so you can't access many options and settings of a classic apps.

You don't have status bar, and many apps rely on this component.

In full Android instead we can do all. Now also Leanback Launcher with mouse support and all Android TV apps + others millions apps directly from Google Play.

That you like or not.

p.s.

After one year, i can say also without doubt that every standard app is many times better than android tv counterpart, because have more options, accessibility, is faster, more updates and you can do multitask.

---------------------------------------------------------------

All this tech limitations are just the start:

Android TV was invented to create a secure platform for sellers of movies and songs and mainly was invented to be an alternative OS for physical TV.

The boxes are made to support the platform in the start to attract independent developers and to see if was possible have a decent number of apps and not only paid multimedia services from big companies.

In this contest, apart tech problems or what are your preferences, there are many others problems.

Sellers of movies and songs want the users closed in a walled garden and with limitations to better sell their services.

One movies service can work, another can't cause commercial agreement and all the strange protections that this sellers are used to do.

So also if Google put all the effort in the Android TV OS, this is in fact controlled by sellers of movies and songs and you can imagine what future you can have with it.

Also in the past was so, for this reason Google had problems with Google TV. Today Google together with sellers of movies and songs retry because are forced cause the millions of Chinese Android TV box sold. And in fact Android TV try to attack this alternative market.

So for me, that i want be free from restrictions but i want the best hardware, the only one alternative is full Android inside an Android Tv devices, because Android despite all recent limitations, is more OPEN.

Support the Android Tv platform means accept and indulge restrictions and limitations from big companies.

So for a future better IT world, think on what you are doing before writing.
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Idan73:
To me just the basic logic of dumbing down android to cater to general crowd and average Joe is beyond ridiculous. We have a population of people that choose to be put in neat little boxes, they are ios users, and that's fine. But do they really think those same ios users are gonna start buying android TV boxes? No Freakin way. They'll take apple TV to hell with them.

So now we have android users with android phones, already used to os, aosp fitting perfectly on Android TV consoles, as shown with zulu's firmwares, minus things that 'they' chose to lock down on purpose, having to learn new way of interacting, while being dumbed down to ios level.

Btw casting receiver works just fine on full android firmware, as mentioned, it's just an app.

Note 4 ?
[Shield Android TV Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] tlc4youall:
80/20

Super thanks to Zulu99 for all his hard work. You are the spirit of Android. Open and innovative.

For me it is a bit funny to read the back and forth regarding opinions. Not sure how someones preference can be perceived as wrong even if it is simple. Personal desires are personal by their nature. Why do we feel compelled to convince others that our opinion is best? Do we need validation?

This is a simple 80/20 thing

80% of all android users want it to work simply...............20% want it their way.

most of the 80% (average users) will never see this forum as the box does what they want and look no farther. :eek:

Most of the 20% (techy types) will come here and comment or look for support to make the Box "useful" :cyclops:

The 80% expect advertisements as a matter of course so buying a box that puts what some vendor wants you to buy in front of you is normal......of course they do. The vendors goal is to not annoy you and get you to buy stuff. (tricky balance)

The 20% resent spending money on a box that is configured to get more money out of us. "When they give me the box for free then they can configure it their way and market to me"

Given the cost of this box, about 50% of those that buy it are in the 20% category which is the issue at this time. I expect this will change in the future as the industry standardizes and matures such that "leanback" type users will become more savvy and will want a simple interface with maximal speed.

I can see both positions but find myself firmly in the 20% category. I want what I want.

Thanks again to Zulu99 and all the others that help each other. The human community thrives best when cooperative behaviors pervade.