yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] ChazzMatt:
I think it's clear [MENTION=1415579]adrynalyne[/MENTION] meant the Moto Maxx XT1225. He meant since they all have the same hardware, made by the same company, it's not Moto's fault the XT1254 does't have Lollipop yet. Moto is able to push it out themselves with the XT1225.

But one Turbo does have Lollipop -- the Moto Turbo XT1225. ;) The Moto Turbo launched in India with Lollipop.

Only the U.S. Quarks still have Kitkat -- the Moto Maxx XT1250/Droid Turbo XT1254, both with the same FCC ID.

The "international" Quarks, the Moto Maxx/Moto Turbo XT1225 have had Lollipop since March. The Moto Turbo launched in India with Lollipop, and the Moto Maxx XT1225 (Brazil, Chile, Mexico, Puerto Rico) upgraded at the same time.

All the Quark phones have the same hardware specs.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] wrecklesswun:
so is it possilble to dump the india rom?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Metfanant:
He shouldn't have responded to a post talking about the Droid Maxx...and then SAID Droid Maxx...if he was talking about the Moto Maxx...

regardless...

You said it yourself though...Moto can push the update THEMSELVES to those phones...builds pass internal testing with nasty bugs ALL THE TIME...you can't blame VZW if they find something they don't like...it is their network the phone will be operating on, and they are the first line of defense when customers complain about bugs...

VZW showed with the Droid Maxx that it has NO PROBLEM pushing quality builds out before any other devices have them...
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] mdav07:
So I just seen from a Google search not sure if its true but I kinda believe it. It said the droid turbo will bypass 5.1 and go to M. So maybe this time next year we will be updated.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
You can backpedal all you want but the fact is this is a Droid Turbo and Moto Maxx forum. My target device is quite clear. Bringing up a phone from 2013 is just off topic. I never once said Droid Maxx, even if you think I did.

Never make assumptions.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Metfanant:
I'm not backpedaling...you QUOTED a post that is referencing the Droid Maxx...and responded with "the Maxx" or you can deny that too...

As for off topic...no its not...

The Droid Maxx was Moto's 2013 flagship device...and just like the Turbo was only available on VZW...it got updates before ANY other phones...

Flash forward to 2014, and the flagship Moto can't get a version update, even after the NEXT version of Android has been announced...

What has changed? Lenovo...not VZW...Lenovo...
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
So naive. I am out.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Metfanant:
Translation: I've got nothing and i just want to blame VZW, so I'll bow out now
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
No I am just not naive enough to believe Moto is at fault here and nothing I say will make you see differently.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Phobophobia:
I've seen several sites claiming it, but it's 100% speculation (and every single article was written in very poor English). None of them can provide any sources other than "it's taken a long time and other Motorola phones have 5.0/5.1". Given that Motorola reported that 5.1 was in testing less than two weeks ago, the odds of us not getting 5.1 as the next update are remote.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Metfanant:
So explain what changed between the Droid Maxx and the Droid Turbo?...VZW is the same company...

But Moto is now owned by someone who historically has no clue in the mobile industry, instead of Google themselves...

If you wanna Moto fanboy, go ahead...but dont act like Moto is infallible...I only buy Moto phones for a reason...but there is clearly a Moto problem here
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] mdav07:
I did notice the article had poor english
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] ChazzMatt:
Not if you want to use it on Verizon. For two reasons:

1) These are the Moto Maxx/Moto Turbo XT1225 bands:

No CDMA and some slightly different LTE bands.

The Moto Maxx XT1225 and Moto Turbo XT1225 are identical, having the same FCC ID.

2) locked bootloader on the Droid Turbo XT1254.

You COULD dump the U.S. Moto Maxx XT1250 ROM onto the Droid Turbo which had IDENTICAL BANDS to the Droid Turbo XT1254, and has the same FCC ID -- IF you could unlock the XT1254 bootloader.

or you can buy a U.S. Moto Maxx XT1250, unlock that bootloader and use it on Verizon (just like a non-Verizon Nexus 6) -- and install the

CM 12.1 (Lollipop 5.1.1) for the Maxx/Turbo in the Development forum.

[MENTION=2228410]Skrilax_CZ[/MENTION], the Quark CM 12.1 maintainer has said he will help any XT1250 owner install that ROM on their device.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
Let's see, explain to me why the Moto Maxx has Lollipop for the last four months and the Turbo does not? This is a more relevant comparison than a device from two years ago.

Same fricking phone.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Metfanant:
I already explained that...because Moto can push that update themselves...phones pass internal testing ALL THE TIME with bugs and issues...and fail carrier cert...

VZW doesn't like the build...that's a Moto issue, as VZW has shown in the past that they are more than willing to pass builds through cert faster than other carriers (see Droid Maxx/Ultra in 2013)...if Moto delivered a bug free build, it would have passed cert...

Now I'm willing to admit it's possible that back in 2013 VZW fast tracked updates because GOOGLE owned Moto and it was good for business...

But the fact remains...if the build was bug free...it would be on our phones...
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
You just confirmed VZW is the problem here.

Thanks!

PS

Ask any S5 user about how demanding VZW is of a bug free build. LOL.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Metfanant:
No, I confirmed how updates work...OEM's deliver builds that need to pass carrier cert...if the build is bug free, it passes...if not, it fails...that doesn't make VZW "the problem." Its Moto that needs to deliver the build...

Talk about naive...

EDIT: Yeah, maybe those S5 owners might be able to give you an idea of what the sorry excuse for a quality build Moto delivered to VZW...

Also, the S5 is 5.1, not 5.1.1 correct? Wasn't that a Moto deciscion? To skip 5.1?...that further delays things...

I frankly don't pay attention to Samsung phones because touch wiz is a disaster...I moved away from Moto for a GS3...hated it from day 1...will never purchase a non nexus Samsung phone...ever again
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
My point was, they pass buggy garbage all the time, even for Moto. I've also been privy to test reports in the past and a good chunk of the time it is pebcak. That adds time to rollout every time they send it back as a fail.

Keep thinking Verizon only delivers bug free updates though lol.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Metfanant:
The real point is that Moto has not been able to provide a build that is acceptable to VZW for whatever reason...they have very little reason to delay updates on a phone they have a special marketing agreement for...

They even PAY EXTRA in royalties for each phone sold because of the Droid name...it doesn't make any sense for them to hold back lollipop "just because."

The change here is from Google to Lenovo...

The blame is not all on Moto for sure...but to just give them a pass and blame it all on VZW is LAUGHABLE and rather fanboyish...
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] wrecklesswun:
The Maxx and Turbo are not the same phones and not the same specs. The Turbo is a Snapdragon 8xx while the maxx is the 6xx. the maxx is dual core, turbo quad core, and the list goes on.

---------- Post added at 07:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 PM ----------

this is speculation, but i don't think it's a build quality issue, as the Nexus 6 and Droid Turbo are nearly identical except for screen size. I've used both on Vzw, and the only issue i've found is the VoLTE feature set on Lollipop. In fact, i don't think there is a lollipop build that actually has 100% of the feature set of Volte, like KK does...
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
You guys really need to start reading.

One person is using a Droid Maxx as a silly.comparison while I am using the Moto Maxx as a comparison. Considering I am the one who said they are the same device, I'm thinking you are replying about my comment.

They are indeed the same phone with different low level radio programing.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] wrecklesswun:
so you are saying that there is a "turbo" which is also marketed as the moto maxx? what carrier? please refer a link to VZW where the Moto Maxx is sold. (please). Also please describe the low level radio programming, since they are both the same chipset. Also was the Maxx updated to Lollipop and if so, are ALL the VoLTE features available? As a former Motorola employee (albeit a long time ago) none of this makes sense. Although the support forums @ Motorola don't make it any easier to discern model hardware from model marketing either...

---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 PM ----------

i take that back - the phones are the same just different region programs. so technically one could extract lollipop from the maxx if it has it, and not flash the radio?

https://forums.motorola.com/posts/b8662a5bd4

---------- Post added at 07:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:43 PM ----------

also my apologies, the droid maxx and moto maxx are widely confusing reading these forums.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
The problem with getting Lollipop from Maxx would be the Turbo needs an unlocked boot loader and I imagine the ril blobs might cause some trouble.

And no need to apologize. Its all good.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] pgzerwer:
Question : If we agree who to blame for the delay will that get us the update any sooner? Seems to me there is plenty of blame to go around.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] wrecklesswun:
i see, i have been able to flash my turbo though...or does the bl need to be updated as well?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
Bootloadwr perhaps, but the bigger issue is the kernel.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] windoge89:
The regret at the fact that I didn't buy an XT1250 hurts so much now. Think I could trade for a gently used one on swappa if I threw in 200ish more dollars? Also is the XT1250 GSM and CDMA?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] ChazzMatt:
Yes. It has exactly the same bands as the Droid Turbo. They have the same FCC ID.

FCC ID: IHDT56PK1

Therefore BOTH have all these bands.

A lot of people don't seem to realize the significance of that. It has legal repercussions for American Disability Act (hearing impaired) and many other things. You can call a device many names, many model numbers, but the same FCC ID means it's the same device with the same communications capabilities -- no matter what name it's being sold under.

For instance, when the Latin America Moto Maxx XT1225 was launched, for some reason Motorola did not list all the enabled HSPA/LTE bands (on Motorola website) that I found scanning with software and even the FCC found in certification tests. (LTE band 5, HSPA band 4). People kept asking me, are you sure HSPA band 4 (used by T-mobile) is there? Are you sure LTE band 5 is there? (Well the FCC says it is, and I see it also.) It seemed to be, and then some Canadians CONFIRMED they were using both those bands on their Moto Maxx XT1225 phones with Canadian carriers!

Finally, when Motorola launched the XT1225 in India, they listed ALL the enabled bands we knew it already had! Because those bands were not used in Latin American countries, Motorola didn't list them, but they were there. And since the Moto Maxx XT1225 and Moto Turbo XT1225 have the same FCC ID, then we know for sure they are indeed identical. ;)

Same with the U.S. Quarks, the XT1250/XT1254. They both have the same FCC as each other.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] windoge89:
Then theoretically I could use my XT1254 on something like T-mobile?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] ChazzMatt:
Many people have.

For T-Mobile, yu would get LTE bands 2 and 4. Not the new LTE band 12.

You would also get some HSPA.

Here's the bands for the U.S. Quarks, including the XT1254 (Droid Turbo):

FCC ID IHDT56PK1

Back in November, December there were lots of posts about using XT1254 on T-Mobile and AT&T. But my opinion is the XT1225 is better. If you don't need CDMA or all the Verizon LTE bands, It has all the AT&T bands, and bootloader can be unlocked.

FCC ID IHDT56PK2
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] kitcostantino:
i wish i could trade my Turbo EE for a Xt1225 or an xt1250. guess i should just give up on ol Quarky.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] windoge89:
I'd definitely trade my 64gb XT1254 for an xt1250 at any time as well.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] zathus:
How's 5.1 running for you guys??
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] windoge89:
It's not?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] adrynalyne:
Sure ya don't want to rub it in?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] zathus:
Lol
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] kitcostantino:
Honestly, I just wish Moto would release the means (they can claim we stole it, idc) to factory program the xt1250 from the XT1254. i mean really, if we are so few, why not throw us a bone for some good press? I dont care about stock 5.1. I care about bootloader unlock more. ;)
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] windoge89:
I was getting disgruntled with them on their instagram page, and said "It's OK, we'll take it from here since it's obvious that you can't carry your own weight with this phone. Just give us the bootloader unlock and it'll be OK," it was rather sarcastic, but I still hope they read it.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] kitcostantino:
ha ha. yeah, i have made a *couple* of comments saying the same via Twitter, G+, Facebook, etc. They might "see" it, but there is never any response. even taggimg the big wigs nets nothing. (Rick Osterich, etc). Ultimately, Verizon has Moto kitty whipped. sad.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] windoge89:
[MENTION=3250376]ChazzMatt[/MENTION] for some reason quoting your post didn't work. In any case, if I had known about the XT1250 I would have bought that instead immediately. What do you think? On Swappa do you think that I'd be able to get one in exchange for the XT1254 plus 100 or 150 give or take?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] ChazzMatt:
My "Turbo" is running great on 5.1.1.

One Quark is running 5.1.1, the other soon will be. ;)

Both are flashed to India radio/bootloader, so show up as "Moto Turbo".

____________________

---------- Post added at 05:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 AM ----------

The U.S. XT1250 is sold by smaller regional CDMA/LTE carriers. I saw one on eBay awhile back. So, you just have to look. They flew under the radar when released, as these carriers don't get any attention from national/international tech media.

But this sort of stuff goes on all the time. Back when Verizon released the LG Revolution LTE phone (EXCLUSIVE TO VERIZON!), just a few months later the old CDMA/LTE MetroPCS (which had roaming agreements with Verizon and Sprint) released the LG Esteem. It was the SAME DEVICE, just a different name. When I rooted it, inside the media folder was the Verizon Revolution boot animation along with the MetroPCS animation. LG hadn't even bothered to remove it.

Take "exclusive" marketing claims with a grain of salt. Same FCC ID means it's the exact same device, with the exact same bands.

Now Verizon can't block non-Verizon devices from using their LTE network, due to agreement with the FCC. This is why non-Verizon Nexus 6 worked on Verizon before Verizon finally, belatedly released the Nexus 6.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Flowah:
But they can block non-Verizon devices from their CDMA network?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] maxmousee:
How stable is it?

Did you find any critical bugs?

:}
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] ChazzMatt:
On my wife's phone so far, CM 12.1 (Lolliop 5.1.1) seems fine. But I haven't stressed it much. Just opened mail (gmail, yahoo, Android email app), texts, web pages, Hangouts. Configured everything. She will be using it as a daily phone for two weeks in Brazil, starting next Thursday. Until then she's still using her Nexus 5.

I'm going to flash it to my own daily phone tonight or tomorrow.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] kitcostantino:
If anyone needs proof VZW is the problem with our update, I think that is it. ;)

The only thing I think we should add about the xt1250 is that the carriers that have it are actually an expansion of Verizon. The xt1250's fxz name began with LRA. At first glance, it didnt mean much to me. After searching around I found articles talking about Verizon expanding their network in rural areas via their LRA program. Thumb, Pioneer, Cellcom, and all the others are operating on Verizons network. They are direct business associates of Verizon. I still cant find the link, but at one point I had found on Verizon's site where you could apply to make your own carrier-on their network. I would love to make my own carrier. Only phone: Moto Maxx xt1250. ;)
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] Slartibartfast_:
I may be missing something but how is that proof of anything?
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] ChazzMatt:
I understand what you are saying, but for others just hearing about this "LRA" consortium -- to be clearm these are not MNVOs operating on Verizon's network. These are standalone CDMA/LTE carriers in rural areas, who own their own towers and spectrum. The LRA setup is basically a fancy roaming agreement, where Verizon uses their towers and vice versa. This is why their phone have to have the same bands as Verizon. Some were already adding LTE to their CDMA capabilities, others had not yet made the move. The LRA arrangement helps them keep up to date, and helps Verizon -- since Verizon doesn't have to build new towers.

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story...cess-its-aws-spectrum-xlte-network/2014-08-07

__________

---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 AM ----------

He's saying all these smaller rural carriers are under the direct influence of Verizon, the same way Russia had authority over all the satellite countries in the "Soviet Union". They were under Russia's thumb.

Motorola is not going to give the XT1250 a Lollipop update without Verizon's approval, even if the XT1250 is technically not a Verizon device. BUT it can run on Verizon's network -- see the article above.

For the Quarks that have no Verizon influence, those phones have had Lollipop 5.0.2 since March. There's your proof.

But at this point, due to Verizon Droid Turbo owner discontent, Motorola will not update the XT1225 to 5.1 stock ROM until the the XT1254/XT1250 gets it, in my opinion.

However, the XT1250 doesn't NEED Motorola or Verizon. You can root it, install custom 5.1.1 ROM! :)
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] kitcostantino:
^^^^^[hits multiple nails directly on their respective heads. ]

the proof was, in fact the screen shot of [MENTION=3250376]ChazzMatt[/MENTION] 's that shows the xt1225 on 5.0.2

As far as the xt1250, i really wouldnt be surprised to see it on 4.4.4 permanently. There is no real advantage for anyone in control to update it. I still want to find someone to trade my Turbo to that is on one of those carriers with an XT1250. It would suck to only have 32gb, but worthwhile nonetheless. Then, I could make my own Nexus for real. ;)
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] windoge89:
I'm getting way too mad about how little they care
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] reggie14:
Some of the comments related to VZW border on conspiracy theories. Maybe I don't understand the statements here, but the claim appears to be Verizon isn't just irrationally holding back the 5.x updates for the Droid Turbo, but also for the XT1250 that some other US carriers use (many of which, presumably, are VZW partners). I'm skeptical of this. VZW doesn't seem to care about updates- probably in part because a large percentage of its customers don't care. So I'm skeptical of the idea that they would *actively* block updates - particularly by other carriers.

I don't think VZW or Motorola are being nearly as devious as some suggest. The situation actually seems relatively clear. Advanced Calling was an important feature for Verizon, so it made it into the v4.4.4 firmware relatively early. But, at Motorola said, it didn't make sense to port Advanced Calling to v5.0 when they knew v5.1 would include native VoLTE support. So, we basically got passed over for the v5.0 updates. Sure, the Nexus 6 came out on Verizon with v5.1 a while ago, but 1) it just support VoLTE, not full Advanced Calling (e.g., no video calling), and 2) there's no reason to believe Motorola prioritizes updates for phones that are "similar" to ones that have already been pushed out.

Even though they're very different phone models now, I imagine the Droid Turbo (and US Moto MAXX) "compete" with the Moto X for resources internally at Motorola, and "compete" for testing slots at the carriers. So I'm not the least bit surprised to see Moto X (2014) updates to 5.1 before seeing the Droid Turbo updated. I think they probably do try to get updates for the same model (e.g., the Moto X) out to carriers in roughly similar time frames.

As for the XT1250, who knows. It's not crazy to think think Verizon would have certification requirements for devices that attach to their network, and having such requirements wouldn't be wholly unreasonable. Perhaps Motorola just wants to send the XT1250 and XT1254 updates through at the same time. Or, maybe even separate from any certification requirements, maybe Motorola was working with Qualcomm on updated baseband firmware to improve compatibility/reliability with Verizon's LTE network, and Motorola wanted to use that firmware in the XT1250.

I'll accept that Verizon device capabilities requirements (e.g., Advanced Calling) and/or Verizon certification processes are probably slowing things down. But, if you accept that Verizon is justified in being able to set reasonable requirements for the devices it sells and supports, then it's not clear if Verizon is really holding things up or if, alternatively, Motorola (or its component partners, like Qualcomm) has been dragging its feet to meet those requirements.
[Verizon Motorola Droid Turbo General] SquireSCA:
Let's just be clear about something... If updates in a timely manner matter to you...

Then let this whole fiasco and all 36 pages filter down to one thing... Stop buying exclusive phones, or ones that carriers have a stanglehold on.

If prompt updates matter to you, if they are important, then get a Nexus or DE version of the phone.

I gave up, got tired of waiting on carriers to "get around" to offering the updates. I am done. I returned the Turbo and got the Nexus, and rather than having to complain about updates like everyone else, I am now rocking Android M and loving it. Screw Lollipop. By the time you get it, M will be official and you will once again be another year behind the curve.

Just food for thought. I was in the same boat as you all, for several years on a variety of phones. No matter which flagship I picked, it always seemed to be the one to get the least love.

No more. Nexus only from here on out.

---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 PM ----------

Even if you are in a contract and don't have an upgrade handy... Sell the Turbo, and buy the Nexus. It's the same internals, but a larger nicer screen. You can easily sell a Turbo in excellent condition for good $$. Use that to get a Nexus and never look back...