yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
Queensboro Bridge picture was resting on a railing. The bike picture (longer exposure so harder) was held by hand. I have pretty steady hands, all things considered. Tips: put your elbows into your sides and hold your breath. Should steady you.
[G4 General] Galaxicos:
The bridge picture is really awesome. I don't have a steady hand. I have a DSLR as well and always have issues with this, but resting on something is a good workaround :o
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
Yep, if you can find something to rest on. Unfortunately, not always available lol. I find that sitting down and resting your arms on your knees can sometimes steady the shot too...I get creative lol.
[G4 General] juzerali:
WOW! Amazing low light pics. What a phone!
[G4 General] Slash8915:
Wow, great shots and awesome explanation on the settings!

Just a couple of quick questions. Were these photos taken in RAW format? Also, would you recommend using the Exposure Lock function in manual mode? I've messed with it a bit, and it almost seems like a Auto/manual mode when turned off, but my knowledge of camera settings is very limited, so I could be wrong. Thanks in advance!
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
The photos are in JPEG (and badly processed by Instagram - I deleted the original after posting to Instagram so don't have that copy unfortunately). If you don't plan to post-process the photos (in a program such as Adobe Lightroom - which is what I recommend/used when I was a wedding photographer and occasionally still use), JPEG is fine. RAW is pretty much only useful if you want to post-process the image.

As for the exposure lock, I haven't messed with it. Typically, in most situations, it is more than enough to just set ISO/Shutter manually to get the proper lighting. I haven't messed with the lock, A/M focus, white balance, etc.
[G4 General] Derpling:
What manual settings need to be set in order to achieve best photo with minimal noise at night?
[G4 General] Slash8915:
From what I gathered by reading OP's post, a lower ISO and longer shutter speed is best for minimal noise. However, you need a tripod or very steady hands to get a clear shot. I messed with the shutter speed, and even at 2 seconds, the slightest hand movement can completely ruin the shot.
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
Correct. ISO dictates how much 'noise' is in a picture. However, the lower the ISO (lowest noise), the darker the image. So to combat that, you need to extend the shutter (but you must stay steady or use a tripod once you get past 1/2 second unless you're like me and have a steady hand).

This camera is pretty amazing, I'm still blown away by it. BUT, it's not a professional grade camera, so at night regardless of settings there is a bit of noise even at ISO 50. You can clean this up if you know how to use Lightroom. The sensor is amazing, but it's just not as amazing as a proper Full Frame Canon sensor, for example. I never expected it to be. It certainly allowed me to no longer have to buy a DSLR. For vacations, etc...this phone is plenty to get some BEAUTIFUL images. At this point, the only people who I think need DSLR's are professionals or people who need crazy zoom lenses (bird watchers, etc.). Everyone else, if they use the phone camera to it's fullest abilities, will achieve great results without one.
[G4 General] Derpling:
Camera is so awesome, i see thank you, not that stable so lower the shutter beyond 1/2 is risky :D
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
Not risky, mine were at 2 seconds and 4 seconds...it's doable but you need to be super steady with the phone (use a phone tripod or set the phone down on a flat surface, etc.). However, I have years of practice shooting weddings so I'm trained to keep steady so to speak. I NEVER used flash in my wedding shoots. I hate flash with a passion.
[G4 General] Derpling:
Same, flash ruins the picture.
[G4 General] Slash8915:
Here's a random question. Using the phone in bright, sunny, outdoor settings, is there enough of a difference between manual mode and auto mode to justify not just using auto? It seems the REAL difference is seen when taking shots in low light.
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
Correct, in bright sunny conditions, your fine leaving it on auto. The sensor will do the work for you. Unless, like me, you tend to like your pics on the brighter side (washed out a bit). The only thing you'd probably use in broad daylight is maybe manual focus.
[G4 General] davewvu86:
Any suggestions for a place that features extreme shadows and brightness? I'm headed to the Grand Canyon. It's very bright, but with a lot of shadows. Last time I was there, half my pictures were either way too dark in the shadows or completely washed out. Any ideas on settings?
[G4 General] One Twelve:
Can't freeze people on a dance floor without it. Can't freeze people indoors for a party shot. In fact the LED isn't as strong as a xenon and fires much slower. People never stay still.

Nothing is wrong with flash so long as it isn't direct, bouncing it off something can actually improve lighting a good deal. An option that unfortunately isn't available on a smart phone. well, without using a speedlight set up as an optical slave but who's going to do that. Off camera flash can produce very good shots but i don't know when they will get a phone camera to use it.

---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 PM ----------

Depends what you want to do.

Fast action might need a faster shutter than auto picks. if you want movement blur you want a slower shutter than auto picks.

The camera might get tricked and pick the wrong white balance, you will see this as either too blue or yellow, then again you might want it more blue or yellow.

Camera might over expose in certain situations and you want to tone it down, speeding up the shutter will do it. But exp comp is simpler or it might underexpose and you want to slow it to get things brighter. Again exp comp. You might want either for creative reasons.

Focus has already been mentioned. You can set up a speed trap with manual focus, if you know your subject is moving and will cross a certain point then you already have them in focus when they arrive and can get the shot. No need to get focus as that is the slowest part.
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
Definitely true.

However, in my case, I was shooting old school Slavic (Russian/Ukrainian) Christian weddings where we don't utilize dance floors, no fast motion, etc. 90% of each wedding was of the couples/bridal party in mostly well lit areas such as outdoors, etc. The other 10% was of the ceremony, etc.

It's kind of a different situation. I never shot a typical wedding that most people think of when they hear 'wedding' lol. For my situation(s), luckily I didn't need flash that often and was able to work without using it a vast majority of the time. The times I did need to use it, I had a Lightsphere diffuser and obviously never pointed directly at the object even with that.

You can get creative with off camera flash pictures, also true. I worked with a few photographers and we got some good shots of silhouettes, etc.
[G4 General] One Twelve:
Ah much clearer now. So when do these guys celebrate then ? don't they want you to take photos of it...
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
It's more of a God-centric celebration, our weddings. We have a band (Christian wedding themed songs) and people can come up and say poems/wish the couple well as well, etc. There is no alcohol and there is no dancing so virtually all photos taken are set shots with a few candid shots here or there (couple with the guests, couple with family on stage, couple playing some basic Q/A games that are like quizzes on how well they know each other, etc). People eat, talk to the couple as they make their rounds and otherwise guests mingle with other guests (most of which are friends and/or family). Couple then cuts the cake, etc. After that's done, the couple then takes off and we shoot outside in a downtown area, park, lake area, etc. till sundown.
[G4 General] KingFatty:
Can you explain what exp comp does? Is it like aperture? I can understand how shutter can affect brightness, and also ISO. But what does adjusting the exposure comp do? Does it leave the shutter and ISO unchanged, but adjust the aperture?
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
Yes and no. Say you set the ISO to 50 and the shutter to 1 second...but your image is too dark. So, you up the ISO to 100 but now your image is too bright (unlikely, but just an example). Conversely, you might leave the ISO 50 and change the shutter from 1 second to 2 seconds and actually want something that more closely resembles 1.5 seconds. Exp comp (exposure compensation) allow you to fine tune and find an 'in between' area.

That's the simplest way to explain it, anyway, IMO. It doesn't really change the shutter speed, etc. It just uses software to alter the image in a 'fine tune' kind of way.
[G4 General] One Twelve:
Aperture affects depth of field as well as letting in more/less light. All exp comp does is allow more (or less light). it works as a function of iso & shutter. Its is located in the manual mode section for some reason. Usually exp comp is used with auto, you just push up or down by a fraction of a stop, eyeball your photo and decide if you like it. It has no purpose in a manual section as you are free to adjust either.

eg in a snow scene, auto will get the light wrong because there is so much white and underexpose so you want to add +exp comp to brighten up the scene. Same could happen with a dark storm cloudy sky.

conversely in a dark scene, auto might over brighten things and you want to add -exp comp to bring it to down the way your eyes saw it.

its simpler to use exp comp as its a tweak in either direction, with manual you have to set shutter and then iso which is a step extra. There may be times you want to keep ISO low in which case manual is the way to go. otherwise exp comp can fix up things up quickly.
[G4 General] One Twelve:
Instagram does you a big favour though, by reducing resolution to the extent it does that it hides any shake that would be more apparent at larger resolutions.

1/2s is doable handheld with practice. but to go slower than that is more challenging.

Here

is a 1s exposure. And even though it looks clear its got a bit of shake in there. Its a good effort though.
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
Yeah that's why I definitely recommend a phone tripod for any decent night time shooting.
[G4 General] Gemichi:
besides the first three, the rest are over exposed... :/ I assume you are trying to get everything exposed, but I'm not very fond of the over exposed in the bright light...let me take some night shots later
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
I think I mentioned this in another post, but that is my personal 'style' if you will. I prefer images on the over-exposed side. Always been that way.
[G4 General] Ludeape:
Hi guys,

So is the LED flash totally useless on the G4?

I am coming from a Nokia 808, and loved the xenon flash to freeze motion, and just use for general indoor and night portrait shots.

Anyone have any decent shots using the flash on the G4?

thanks!
[G4 General] brownk2j:
After reading through the informative tutorial regarding manual controls and photography on the LG G4, I decided to try my luck.

ISO 100, ET 0.5 sec, manual focus. First time ever using manual on any photo-taking device...solid feature that LG added!
[G4 General] Ludeape:
i really want to see more everyday pictures to truly see what this G4 can do.. party shots, indoor portrait shots, night time outdoor portrait shots of people and close range objects

This is where xenon flash is vital. if the G4 can pull off CRISP shots like this without resulting in blurring pictures of people, etc.. then i will drop my money on it today!!

thanks
[G4 General] One Twelve:
Would not call it totally useless. You can get close but led can't beat xenon. Question then is it good enough.

A faster shutter has to be set which means a higher iso. You will have to do this manually for both parameters if auto isn't sufficient.

A portrait suggests people are posing and not moving so you won't need a flash unless its really dark. Don't expect good selfies in this situation as the front camera has no flash.

Shutter at 1/60 in decent light.

album

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 PM ----------

Try doing some test shots before parting with your money. a xenon works much faster than a led and in effect becomes your shutter speed in the dark. In some situations led may suffice will take trial and error but if you only have one chance to get that shot then xenon has the better odds.

its a bit sad how xenon has all but disappeared on phones these days when it used to be a staple in the past. Somebody had this idea that they wanted to get a more evenly illuminated scene that showed some of the background. led did it, was cheaper, smaller and they just got rid of xenon.

The most recent android to have xenon is the k zoom which auto defaults to 1/30 which is too slow to catch people blinking so i have to speed it up to 1/60 at least. As a result my iso is higher than what you can get on your 808.
[G4 General] vincent2167:
Here is a visual explanation of the different parameters effects:

On the LG G4, the aperture is fixed at F1.8 so you can only play with Shutter Speed and ISO in full manual mode. If you only set up a positive/negative Exposure Compensation, the camera will either modify the Shutter or ISO; sometimes both.

One general advice is that you should try to keep the ISO value as low as possible (ISO 50 on the G4) and compensate the exposure with the shutter speed.

If you get blurred results (because of photographer's or subject's movement), then increase the shutter speed to an acceptable level and adjust the ISO value accordingly.
[G4 General] One Twelve:
Steve is a big supporter of xenon, see human test in his

article

.

Note that he is deliberately trying to move and talk here, behaving like a normal human :D

808 xenon, ISO 200, 1/33

lumia 1520 ie LED, ISO 1600(!), 1/125 + wb correct

Is 1/125 necessary ? maybe you can get away with 1/60 and ISO 800.

bear in mind the 1520 is a f2.4, that means the g4 with its f1.8 is 80% brighter. So it could conceivably get the above shot with 1/125 at a lower ISO than 1600. At 1/60 G4 ISO will start to close in on the 808.

Depends on your scene, but i expect you will get similar with any led flash PLUS you need to set manual shutter.

Is this crisp enough for you Ludeape ? for someone that is not used to 808 the G4 will do well. But i'm not sure about you. The much bigger sensor and xenon are a decisive edge in this use case.

Tough call, your 808 will sell for good money today. Its a classic. Hold on to it. Three years later LED's have come closer to xenon, they cannot match it let alone beat it. This does not mean it won't happen, but that time has not arrived yet.
[G4 General] KingFatty:
I failed at trying to take a long shutter photo of water splashing down a creek over rocks during mid day sunny weather. When I increased the shutter time, the picture became washed out due to all the brightness. I lowered the ISO to the minimum available in manual mode, ISO 50 I think? And it was still too bright?

My problem is once I changed the shutter time in manual mode, the camera disabled exposure adjustment/compensation, so I couldn't figure out how to get a properly exposed picture when I used a long shutter in bright daylight conditions to make the river water look fuzzy? Is there a way I missed in manual mode on the G4 camera? Why is exposure compensation disabled when you manually select the shutter time?
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
You have to turn off the AE-L option (AutomaticExposure-Lock). That will allow to say the ExpComp (Exposure Compensation) from -2 to +2.
[G4 General] KingFatty:
That's where I get stuck - if I turn off the AE-L option, then the phone overrides my shutter speed, losing my manual selection and resetting shutter to something too short.

Would you mind walking me through the steps? Here's what I think happens:

1. Choose shutter speed of 1 second, which forces the AE-L to be forced on

2. Adjust ISO to minimum

3. See that screen is still too white, try to use exposure control to fix exposure

4. See that exposure adjustment is disabled due to AE-L being forced on

4. Turn off AE-L

5. See that my manual shutter speed is lost, and shutter speed is reset to 1/60 or something

6. Adjust shutter speed to 1 second, AE-L gets forced on, disabling exposure control

7. See that screen is too white,

8. ??? throw phone off cliff
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
I see what you're saying. I just tried it on my phone. I have the same result.

I don't remember how my Canon 7D was, but this seems like a limitation in the software? They are joined at the hip (which is dumb).
[G4 General] One Twelve:
To use a slower shutter and get that silky smooth effect requires an nd filter which is difficult to attach and introduces optical issues. These filters are expensive as optical grade glass isn't cheap, close to $100 for glass that will not add its own distortion.

So the key is to reduce the light falling on the subject itself as opposed to modifying at the camera end.. Try later when the sun is lower or find an area that is in the shade or wait for some clouds to obscure the sun. That last one is the best in terms of lighting as it mimicks a giant light box in the sky so now the light is more or less uniform everywhere Dynamic range is reduced, you get a natural saturation boost and your subject will look its best.

You don't need a super slow shutter maybe 1/15 is enough to get motion blur, if the water is moving faster you can use a faster shutter.

Because once you select manual shutter you are in full manual mode. You then have to set ISO manually. exp comp does not apply in manual mode as you have full control of both ISO & shutter. So its inclusion in manual mode is misleading as you found out and actually redundant. I suppose the LG camera UI designers got the benefit of the doubt here. You see the same in the lumia & htc one manual modes as well. From a UI design pov it made more sense to stick exp comp in the manual mode section than from a usability sense.

exp comp should have been put in the auto mode UI as if you notice in the viewfinder that the subject is either too dark or too bright, then you could tweak exp comp which will adjust both iso & shutter at the same time to achieve a +/-x.y f-stop difference.

So to use exp comp in the G4, you have to (confusingly) enter manual mode and only play with that and then ISO & shutter will be set automatically.
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
I actually think they should have made it independent (to achieve that 'in between' area)...do you have a full body One Twelve? Does it work the same way? For some reason I'm drawing a massive blank on how my 7D was, but then again I haven't had a full body since mid 2012 when I sold all of my wedding gear to buy my first motorcycle lol.
[G4 General] mjoshi:
Looks like downtown Albany :)
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
Yep.
[G4 General] One Twelve:
There is no in between, G4 is either full auto or full manual.

Better get used to it as any ui changes are unlikely.

no Dslr.
[G4 General] nh777:
Thanks for this explanation. I'm coming from a dslr where the ev was always adjustable and didn't pose such an issue as needing a ND filter all the time.

FWIW, I tried taking some pics with a ND 8 filter the other day and did Ok. Even in the shade, I think I'll have to go to 16 for it to come out better.

I used a cheap 28mm filter off eBay that I stuck to the back with some sticky tack. I don't think you need to drop a lot of $$$ just to mess around with this thing.
[G4 General] One Twelve:
You will need a ND filter if you are going for day time shots with exposures in the seconds. less than a second there is no need.

When you go into manual mode on your dslr is your ev adjustable ?

can you upload them someplace where we can take a look in full resolution. flickr or google otherwise one of the members has kindly offered some space for photos

here

.

Am referring to what is said in this

video

. How does your filter do with that test ?
[G4 General] IlyaKol:
Yeah he said it was, which is what I vaguely remember from my 7D...which is why I said LG *should* have made the E/V adjustable and not dependent on what other options are turned on/off. Kinda silly, but hey, I'm just happy I don't *need* to buy a DSLR to take some very nice pictures with this thing.
[G4 General] One Twelve:
Wanted to give this another try because steve did compare the 808 with the G4

here

. Looking at the party shots

808, F2.4, ISO 125, 1/50

G4, F1.8, ISO 50, 1/30

The G4 has blur because default auto behaviour is to use lowest ISO in any given situation which results in too slow a shutter with light indoors and people.

They look pretty similar in terms of brightness but there is an important difference in EV. See this handy

calculator

plug in the above values and for EV, the 808 is 8.17 and the G4 is 6.67, that is a 1.5 stop difference. Meaning because the xenon is more powerful that the 808 used settings that indicate the light was 3 times brighter.

To get the G4 to match the 808's EV requires a shutter of 1/90. Then to get ISO sensitivity to match means ISO 150 or 200. The idea is to use more sensitivity to compensate for lower brightness of the LED flash.

But the shot is still a bit underexposed, to get it brighter requires more ISO, maybe 400 or even 800. This is because there is also a bright light on the wall included in the frame. Human faces can't compete with lights :) so the meter drops the exposure so as to not blow out the light and consequently the face gets darker. That is why in the second image with the 1520 the ISO had to be bumped up to 1600 (!) when it could have got it at ISO 800.

So don't make faces compete with lights just exlude lights in the scene, let the flash do its job and it will come out better.

Course, the light levels in a room can be different from one side to another, this means you will have to do some test shots to see what auto meters and then adjust accordingly. With the right settings i think the G4 will pull it off but it requires work. Auto won't cut it with led flash, have to use manual. This is where xenon is easier, just point and click.

How far away from the subject matters as the inverse square law comes into it, twice as far from the subject means only a quarter of flash light. Get too close and people's faces start to distort. i think 4-5 feet should do the trick, go further and the light drops off.

Bottom line : to freeze people in these situations :

Flash + ISO 200 + 1/60 or ISO 400 with 1/90 at 4-5 feet.

At 8 feet ISO 800 or 1600. double the distance means quadruple the ISO (!)
[G4 General] TonyStark R.I.P.:
There is an existing thread for camera pics here, please use it:good:

Thread closed, as we do not need multiple picture threads

Thank you
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S6] Applerice:
Im stuck on boot screen and my odin wont detect my phone..I cant turn it off. Im stuck in download mode now.. Help please.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S6] !JORGE!:
try to push all buttons at the same time! (volume up, volume down, power button, and the home button) that help me out one time when i flash the wrong twrp (custom recovery) and i wont let me do anything
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S6] Applerice:
I am stuck in DL mode unless I let the battery die. I cant flash anything because my pc detects it as a Samsung Modem... I dont know what to do =[. I tried reinstalling drivers all night nothing worked. Everytime I try to flash on Odin I get stuck at Setup Connection
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S6] @rbiter:
Clear your USB drivers. Also make sure you have Samsung USB drover installed. And make sure you don't a yellow exclamation in device manager. And download correct firmware. Try different Odin's if you have to.