yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Device Reviews and Information] Gruffles01:
Sure, but they were also multinational companies that make huge amounts of profit from selling overpriced products, and can afford an army of customer service reps and marketing team... apart from Jawbone, who handled their delay fairly poorly.

UMI and many of these budget phone manufacturers are working on a fairly small margin, often with only 1 or 2 people communicating with their English speaking customer base on Facebook.

Ultimately... I'm prepared to give them a little leeway here (a little... like I said, I won't be waiting a month) given they have released some promising devices in the past and have pretty good ROM support.
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
I would have total sympathy if they didn't have a small army of YouTube review idiots and marketing people across Asia and Europe currently marketing this phone on Facebook and Twitter. If they have the resources to do that then they have the resources to explain and apologise when they fail.

If the P8000 was already out then I would go for that but it isn't so I'll consider what to do over the next couple of days. I won't be buying another Umi device again after this though regardless, that's for damn sure.
[Device Reviews and Information] KURT.Beadles:
I would have to agree with bloodrose. This is something the Chinese have set in to a system. It really doesn't comply with our western culture of making business but it will perfectly work in China.
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
Which unfortunately is a problem now that they are starting to heavily market their products at foreign consumers. They're happy to receive the money but they don't want to provide the service.
[Device Reviews and Information] Gruffles01:
Good luck that happening anytime soon if their P7000 release date delays are any indication. Like I said, go for something that hass already been released if you want any chance of it being delivered on time.

---------- Post added at 12:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 AM ----------

Which was my point at the start. This is something that has been fine for them in the past, but they are now realising that their overseas market won't work like that. I think it's improving and will give a little leeway here before I start blasting them. Currently, an 11 day delay is not really significant.

Refusing to buy a brand because of a product delay will leave you with no brands to buy from in the future, China based or not. And to suggest buying an Elephone just makes no sense after saying that!
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
Well my far better half's Be Touch 2 is being delivered today so I will check that out and see how I like it. There is also the Jaiyu S3 but that one comes with the added chore of cleaning off all of the spyware on it or the P7000 as you say but those seem to be quite expensive now unfortunately.

---------- Post added at 01:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM ----------

It's not improving if this phone has been delayed twice already. AFAIK nobody forced them into promising a July 20th launch, they did that of their own accord, probably to steal pre-orders away from Elephone. As it stands now, it looks like the P8000 might actually reach the market first.
[Device Reviews and Information] Gruffles01:
What about the Lenovo K3 Note? Seems to get fairly good reviews and has root and rom support on here?

I'd definitely be interested on your experience with the Be Touch 2. I had actually ordered one and then cancelled after the mass of bad experiences that users reported.
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
I don't like the look of the Lenovo's tbh. I think if I ditch the Iron pre-order then I'm going to opt for something with a FP reader as well and I don't think the K3 note has one.

Getting the Be Touch 2 has been absolute nightmare but my girlfriend loved it based on the pictures online and so decided that was the only one that she wanted. The fiasco over ordering and receiving it though has placed GearBest on my vendors-to-avoid list forever.
[Device Reviews and Information] Gruffles01:
Well the P8000 looks to be a nice get... but just be prepared for a release delay given the P7000 was delayed a couple of months.
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
Elephone couldn't be any worse than Umi right now surely. :laugh:
[Device Reviews and Information] Gruffles01:
We'll see. But, I'll be honest... if the Iron continues to be delayed and the Elephone hits the market, I'll probably make the switch... but I'll wait until that happens.

Let me know how that Ulefone goes! :good:
[Device Reviews and Information] khafan11:
what's happen ? :eek:
[Device Reviews and Information] dragon2knight:
C'mon guys, UMI hasn't been that bad. Their phones, up until the Iron, have all come out pretty much when promised, so I'd cut them some slack and stop comparing them to Elephone...that company is horrendous. They messed up this time, yes, and they deserve some scorn for it, but they are a decent company all in all. I love the eMax, it's easily their best phone, far better than the Iron, gimmick free and simple, but powerful and with great battery life(a rare combo on a China phone at any price). Not to mention the great rom support from UMI and from others. It's the phone you should be getting from this company if you want a great experience out of the gate.
[Device Reviews and Information] El greco:
and with this line, you lost all the credibility. saying that a company which only delayed the shipping date of 11 days and that has always been quite punctual in the past can't be worse than a company which has delayed almost every phone for weeks and months is a silly statement. And I was pretty much into buying a P7000, so I know what I'm talking about.
[Device Reviews and Information] amitbhullar:
I am gonna agree with you here. It's my first time buying a Chinese phone. And not impressed the way they don't understand how commitments work. I will however wait till 31/7 and if its still not out, I will cancel and get something else.
[Device Reviews and Information] mondohow:
I don't remember there being this much frothing crazy talk when Blu delayed shipment of their 2015 Life One series. I understand being upset you won't get your new shiny when you expected it, but **** happens. At one point the status for my Blu was basically ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I finally got it mid July.

I pre-ordered the Iron and I'll give em the benefit of the doubt cause this is my first China phone but definitely not my first delayed pre-order and prob won't be the last.

I will grant that they should have better communication about the delays.
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
I would get the emax if it had 3gb RAM but I can't really justify an upgrade from my current phone up another one with the same amount of memory.

This is my first time dealing with them to be fair and I did mean the Elephone comparison as a joke but umi don't seem to be doing themselves any favours at the moment.

I really do hope that they show up with the goods soon though otherwise this is going to cost them dearly. They can't just expect people to throw down their hard earned money and then wait forever with a smile on their face.

---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------

When people have paid their money then theh have the right to receive the goods on time and as agreed. At the very least they should really be offering pre-order customers a partial refund at this point for the inconvenience that their incompetence has caused.
[Device Reviews and Information] Gruffles01:
Good to see there are other people out there that aren't jumping straight to doom and gloom for a current, short delay.

As I mentioned earlier, UMI have a fairly good track record to date with some great devices and good ROM support. 11 days is a very short delay compared to what we've seen from other companies, and not just China companies. Wipe off the froth, remain calm... for now.
[Device Reviews and Information] mondohow:
FYI: Looks like their expected ship date is August 15th. Plus we get a Free Flip Cover for our patience.

https://www.facebook.com/umicommuni...7909/?type=1&ref=notif&notif_t=notify_me_page

Now all I gotta do is convince TO2C to upgrade my shipping for free and I'm set.
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
Not me, I'm out. The camel's back has been well and truly broken at this point.

Meanwhile, the P8000 has now been launched and is on it's way to pre-order customers everywhere. I honestly doubt Umi could find their own ass with both hands.
[Device Reviews and Information] KURT.Beadles:
Is anyone really surprised? I'd stay away from Iron since it would be a sorry piece of ass even when it gets out...
[Device Reviews and Information] s7yler:
I do not defend UMI, nor Elephone, people have to make their own choices.

But the question is more. What would you rather have?

A UMI IRON now with bugged/rushed firmware or wait and get it with final and tested firmware?

Sure the P8000 is coming now also, but we have seen Elephone rush phones too fast with buggy ROMs also.

So for me that is not a much better alternative. No one knows how the P8000 is running when the endusers get it.

But I know that the UMI IRON runs 100% more smooth than the P7000 did when it was released.

If people don't like UMI, Elephone etc. they should basically just stay to the more expensive brands like Huawei, ZTE, Xiaomi etc. or even the highend brands like Samsung, HTC or LG. But people always want everything, but still don't want to pay anything. That is not going to match..... highend costs, so either you take it or leave it. So if your going to buy the cheap phones, you have to live with the cons that also then follow.
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
I would rather have the phone deployed to resellers to send on to paying customers and then I could flash the firmware myself if needed. What I don't want is a company that lies and relies on word of mouth spread by YouTube idiots to secure pre-orders for an item that clearly doesn't exist. I fail to believe that they thought this would be good to go for the 20th July last week and then just had to extend the release back by a month at the last minute.

I haven't used a P8000 so I obviously can't say that it is the better handset however there has been a lot less nonsense coming from Elephone over the last few weeks than than there has from Umi, that's for sure. I know Elephone's reputation is far from the best but something is at least better than nothing and at least they seem to be making some sort of an effort.

I hope this failure will cost Umi dearly and that they will learn from this mistake in future. You just can't treat paying customers like this.
[Device Reviews and Information] KURT.Beadles:
I think you're hoping to much. The story will continue as business as usual as long as people "like us" puts up with this game. It's all about the cultural differences. It's either that we change and learn and accept that this is how the Chinese do their business or the Chinese learn how we play the game. Unfortunately the latter is just wishful thinking. :D
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
If the Chinese want foreign money then they are going to need to learn to play by our rules. Either that or they can all just fight to the death over the occasional contractual bone that one of the European or American networks decides to throw them for a model re-brand.
[Device Reviews and Information] KURT.Beadles:
I really wish that you're right about that. But I really have my doubts...
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
So do I. Unfortunately, for as long as they are allowed to treat people like this, these things will continue to happen and any complaints will just be met with "well if you don't like it then F.O. and buy a Samsung".
[Device Reviews and Information] KURT.Beadles:
By the way, I had the first UMI, UMI X1, which I really appreciated and it lasted me more than two years before I dropped it, by accident, from a rock.

I'd still probably use it if not for that. So I really could recommend UMI phones as far as my experience is worth something. I have a Zopo C2 now which is more than a year old and it works great but was looking for a replacement. I always keep an eye on s7ylers reviews and I'm ok with give it another shot with UMI. But, yeah, I'm also waiting for the OP2 (OPO) release. It will be interesting
[Device Reviews and Information] s7yler:
Not going to happened, fine that "you could flash the firmware yourself" but there's also a lot of users who can't do that, so that's just an selfish way of thinking. And nothing is going to change, you can accept the things or just leave it. And yeah preorders do suck, as they can't promise the exact date for the real release, but then just don't preorder, wait until the phone is actually released.

Elephone have released a lot of phones much worse than UMI have, there just haven't been much focus on it by users. Batteries in Elephones are also not 100% true (and lately we also saw Doogee release the Y100 Pro with fake battery) the P7000 had buggy ROM and other issues to begin with like screen bleeding, the Elephone S2 lately also had a lot of problems (some units not even connecting to networks, and noneworking GPS) much worse than any UMI phone released - none of the UMI phones had such kind of problems. But people tend to ***** a lot about UMI - and lately I also see more and more people getting tired of the UMI *****ing, because there are also users who are satisfied with their Hammer, eMAX or ZERO despite of the problems.

UMI have tried to do much more than the other china brands, like we saw Rootjoy and a lot of custom roms (even tough they were not perfect, they tried) we saw the ZERO with SuperAMOLED screen, also not common, and now we see the IRON with a new kind of front LED and the Eye ID unlock. And yeah they may fail with some of the things, but at least they try something new, not like for example Doogee, they just release a phone and that's it. No custom ROMs, no special flashing tools and no kind of new features, just nothing. I appreciate companies who dare to come with something new even if they fail with it.
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
Well to be fair, Elephone have released the kernel code for the P8000 straight away so nobody can say that they haven't at least tried to make an effort this time. I have to stick by my argument that they could have just released the phone with the firmware that has already been tested and reviewed and released the rooted firmware later. I personally don't want a rooted phone and would have been quite happy without root anyway.

AFAIK nobody forced Umi to set a release date of July 20th and to start taking pre-orders with that date in mind. They did so of their own accord and probably in an attempt to win pre-orders away from Elephone. Both of them have been guilty of pushing pre-orders with incentive discounts but at least Elephone seem to have actually delivered something more than empty promises and excuses.

When you set customer expectation then you need to meet it, no ifs, no buts. If you fail to meet that expectation then it is only fair to expect harsh criticism in return. That's just business. Of course, I don't think I could ever expect someone like you to understand that.
[Device Reviews and Information] dragon2knight:
UMI just posted this on their official FB page(I know it was posted earlier, just thought I'd post a cut and paste here for easier reading):

UmiOfficial

Dear UMI Fans,

Due to software stability issues, we will not be able to deliver the UMI Iron to you as planned. We sincerely apologize for this.

The delay is due to the root access turning out to be much more difficult than we expected. Our engineers have managed to get gain root access but in order to get users to enjoy all the RootJoy services our team needs about two more weeks of testing stability.

For us its very important to deliver the IRON to our fans with a perfectly optimized Android 5.1 experience with everything the IRON has to offer.

Supply will be happening on the 15th of August

Due to unexpected big amount of orders, we plan to complete all orders within a week to our distributors.

Again we are very sorry for the delay and for the ones that are willing to be a little more patient, UMI Team is giving away a free 19.99USD worth UMI Iron Smart flip-cover included with the phone.

If you are not willing to wait two more weeks, we advise to ask for a refund by contacting the store you ordered from. But we promise the IRON experience will make up for all the waiting.

With our deepest apologize,

UMI Team.

So you folks are going to have to wait a bit longer, but at least they are owning up to it and including a free gift(the cover) for the folks having to wait for it, so they are miles ahead of how Elephone deals with the same issue. Good on ya, UMI :)

Oh, and I agree with s7yler 100% about how much UMI is being different from other China sellers. They are at least trying to set themselves apart, and that's a noble effort by a small company in a VERY competitive marketplace. Do they always succeed? Nope. But I, like s7yler, appreciate the effort nonetheless. I'll continue to support them because of this. If some folks can't understand this, go to another brand and be happier there. For me, I'm into what UMI is doing and like the effort put forth by them.
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
Is that how we punish failure and poor customer service these days? With a "good on ya"?

No wonder the modern world seems to be screwed.
[Device Reviews and Information] dragon2knight:
Wow, showing your true color's,eh? You've been nothing but negative on here, not at all willing to understand anyone else's point of view. You must be God, sorry I or anyone else, didn't notice. Having any kind of conversation with you is obviously impossible. This one should be ignored folks...moving on, nothing to see here.....
[Device Reviews and Information] KURT.Beadles:
Still, BloodRose, they at least sent out an apology and the possibility to cancel the order. On top of that a little gift. That, at least is, the very unthinkable for a lot of other companies. But I do see your point as well.
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
I don't think it's fair to just assume that anybody who disagrees with you is just idly flaming. There has been nothing to be positive about on this thread so far. I wish that wasn't the case but unfortunately it is.
[Device Reviews and Information] dragon2knight:
Nothing, eh? See the above post by yet another POSITIVE person on here seeing the forest through the tree's as it were. No one is perfect, but you are expecting this, obviously. Cancel your order already so this thread can continue in peace, thanks.
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
All I expect is for businesses to do what they say that they are going to do and to live up to their own promises, no more no less. I'm furious because they've wasted my time. I could have just ordered an alternative model and I would have had it by now. Instead, even if I do choose an alternative, I'm going to have to wait for one of the Chinese resellers to do their normal routine of messing around and sitting on their hands for at least a week before they finally bother to send anything.

I am happy to agree to disagree with you though.
[Device Reviews and Information] gesamgr:
Keeping my ECOO E04 and wait with no hurry for IRON...in IRON we trust!!
[Device Reviews and Information] dragon2knight:
No, you're happy to disagree with EVERYONE, including the OP, plus anyone else on here trying to put you at ease with our very extensive China phone buying experience. (I've been at it since 2005....). Some companies do it better than others, and from what I'm seeing here, UMI is doing a decent job, especially compared to other sellers like Elephone. This isn't LG. This isn't Samsung(ever wait for one of their "updates"?....). This isn't Apple. This is a small, tiny actually, company competing in a huge market(China and now Europe) against untold amounts of other small, tiny companies just trying to make a buck. That they can do this at all is amazing, but to try to be different at the same time---that's a feat worthy of praise, not scorn. You can't deal with the way China operates, that much is very obvious. Try getting a nice, safe Apple phone, you'll be a much happier(and hopefully more positive) person.
[Device Reviews and Information] HypoTurtle:
Well they did something similar with the P3000s. And the issue with P7000 was more due to Aliexpress shops and underestimating demand (+ a production issue with black model).

I think it's a good thing that they have held it back for ROM stability issues but wouldn't fixes be possible over OTA? Also it personally wouldn't be a good idea to have the stock ROM prerooted; which they seem to need for UmiTool (RootJoy) to work. Having a .zip on internal sdcard that can be flashed via stock recovery or a root switch in Settings à la would be a good alternative.
[Device Reviews and Information] dragon2knight:
Didn't remember that, good point.

UMI doesn't do OTA's, they, as you've pointed out, use their own software. It's the way they roll, lol. But so far it seems to be working out ok, as there are plenty of roms available from them, and that pleases lots of us. Their internal Recovery software also works great, eliminating the need for Rootjoy, but for some, it's a good piece of kit that works fine for the most part, so it's a nice choice to have. As we've said, UMI is at least trying to be different, and so far it isn't hurting them too much.
[Device Reviews and Information] BloodRose:
OK, I think you misunderstand. I have dealt with Asia extensively in my personal and working life. I have lived there before in fact and I have family there. In the last few days alone, I have received 2 devices from HK. One was a Windows tablet and the other was a phone. Getting the phone was a bit of a nightmare but that was the fault of a crappy reseller (GearBest) and not the phone manufacturer as far as I am aware. That phone is fine but unfortunately it wasn't for me because I had ordered this one. Umi have let me down and I am (arguably understandably) pissed off that I have been lied to and have had my time wasted. I've now had to apply for a refund for this phone with the reseller and I am pretty much back to square one.

In answer to your question by the way, yes I have had to wait for a Samsung update before. I was the unfortunate owner of a GT-N7000 a couple of years ago. Samsung never really bothered to provide updates for it but it didn't really bother me all that much because at least I had something. Are you starting to understand my point now? If you're happy to put up with the endless stream of excuses from businesses like Umi then that's entirely up to you but please understand that others aren't always quite as blindly forgiving.

---------- Post added at 06:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 PM ----------

To be fair to Elephone though, that was over a year ago and if the boxes of P8000's circulating the internet today are anything to go by, then they haven't done a terrible job at bringing the P8000 to market. It's possible that they might have just learned from their mistakes.

By that example, Umi should have gotten their act together by around Christmas 2016. :)
[Device Reviews and Information] dragon2knight:
I've been burned quite a bit as well, believe it. But I don't "blindly forgive" either. I do take into account who I'm buying from, though. If you've bought so much from Chinese retailers you have to know to expect the unexpected....it's a way of life over there. Do I like it? Nope. Do I ever expect them to change because I don't like it? Nope. Folks are gonna buy their stuff either way, and they know it. Not everyone's gonna be satisfied, and those of us that buy from there have grown a pretty thick skin by now. We don't have to like something to still continue to do it. I would love to see them change the way they operate, but I know they don't care about me in the least. I accept that. You don't have to. Choice, isn't it a wonderful thing :)