yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] dno555:
Open letter to Sleuth555

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for the point you made here.

I will say it again << THANK YOU >>

I love this site and I love all the gurus that helped me get where I am today in terms of understanding Windows mobile software and hardware (even though I am considered here as n00b since I have only a few posts.

I have been following this mess from day 1. (All this n00b bashing, leaving XDA site, ROM cooking mess)

MY opinion >>

I think you should prohibit members from accepting donations; donations should be made only to

Xda-developer forum, after all, this site was made to “HELP “each other and members should not gain profit from it.

I will explain why.

One cook comes here , starts cooking ROMs every week or so , starts collecting donations gets recognized , then leaves XDA , opens his site and drives traffic from Xda to his site , gets more donations from his site because there is no competition there , plus traffic which is again more profit , basically uses XDA as a marketing tool .

This is I think how it should be >>

You want to help?? You are more than welcome

You cooked ROM for us? Thank you very much. Do you want feedback on your ROM? Yes or NO.

If YES then here is the Thread for your ROM and be prepared for all kinds of comments and questions, After all no question is a stupid question.

If NO then thread is closed and no post referring to your ROM will be posted

I could go on but I think you got the point.

For the third time I would like to thank you and all members here who worked hard to make this site going.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] CUSTEL:
hahaha....
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] shogunmark:
You make a good point, however all of the chefs that come and go cook these roms in their spare times. Also they put these out publicly, if someone likes the work and wants to compensate the chef for their hard work, then more power to them, the chefs are not demanding money for the rom. And if a chef wants to cook a special rom in order to show appreciation for the people that have funded his pocket then there isnt anything wrong that either. Chefs will come and go, but true spirit of xda will be here forever (hopefully :D ).
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] JasenR:
Everyone isn't leaving, as Shogunmark said "Chefs will come and go, but true spirit of xda will be here forever". The developers are still here and the next great cook is reading these pages, learning, and experimenting.

Sleuth,

Amen brother.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] jcespi2005:
Yes, Sleuth take good point, but i think Custel was bad understood...he post beta for testing purpose and he select for this pupose previous donators to do the test phase, the he will put the final ROM to all...the beta testing was done before for other ppl, and was not discussed like now...so i don't see nothing bad in this...Custel was talking about beta, not final...

Regards.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] vijay555:
Guys,

I'm a lawyer by day, and when judges make a judgment, you often see the lazy ass judges let Judge A do all the work, and then Judge B will say:

"I agree with Judge A".

I agree with everything my learned friends above say! I don't know anything about this "scandal", but AFAIK, the issue the forum will have is with people "selling" the freely availble work product of others.

It's not that we don't want people to make money out of this stuff, hell, most of the cooks and softies (what's a cool word for someone who writes software?) have a donate link in their sig or on their webpages. I don't think any of us are driving Porsches yet, but it pays for hosting etc.

And IMHO, that's the way to go. If you're just using the free tools from this website, it's a bit cheeky to ask someone to pay you for regurgitating this.

However, cooking roms is not just

1. Download tools from xda devs.

2. Click cook.

And hey presto, a lovely customised rom for the world to orgasm and ***** about. Cooking roms requires an enormous amount of custom effort and thought, however much the tools make that easier. So, full credit to Custel, and anyone foolhardy enough to venture into making roms.

So Custel, as far as I'm concerned, it will be a shame to see a talented rom cook leave.

However, do understand that the ethos of the board is that your work shouldn't be seen as being "sold" - commercial activities of pretty much any kind on this board are seen as questionable, not just roms.

The standard practise is to say that donations are appreciated, but the download is free. However, it's a free world (pun intended), so if you think that donations must come first, feel free to discuss your work on this forum, but do the actual donating and distribution through your very smart looking site.

That way, there are hopefully no hard feelings, and the body of knowledge on XDA Devs continous to benefit from your skills.

Anyway, that's my 2 quarters worth.

V
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] DeviLduck:
Of Mice And Men

When John Steinbeck (Of Mice And Men, 1937) used the quote from Robert Burn's poem, To A Mouse (1785)(Kilmarnock volume 1786), like "the best laid schemes o' mice an' men, begin to go awry," it brought into focus a perspective of our imagined importance, in the larger schemes of life.

Sleuth255's comment goes to the heart of the matter. XDA members will come & go. Contributors will come & go. It is amazing that moderators have allowed the freedom of speech to rule on this forum. We have to be thankful for that. Thank you moderators. A breaking point comes when unnecessary crude comments or unethical actions force a response. Common sense prevails, thanks to sensitive & intelligent moderators.

Even the mouse in Burn's poem was immortalized by Ian Anderson (The Voice of Jethro Tull), in the Heavy Horses album, "One Brown Mouse." Here is the full translation from that famous stanza of the poem:

But Mouse, you are not alone,

In proving foresight may be vain:

The best laid schemes of mice and men

Go often askew,

And leaves us nothing but grief and pain,

For promised joy!

It's a sign of the times that squabbling in public forums, blogs, & emails...often acts as a function of expressing our illusional importance in some way.

The last part of Burn's poem (translated) goes:

Still you are blest, compared with me!

The present only touches you:

But oh! I backward cast my eye,

On prospects dreary!

And forward, though I cannot see,

I guess and fear!

Like most XDA developers & Robert Burns, their volunteer work here (or poetry) does not earn them a living. (Burns was a farmer in his day.)

Let's be thankful for the members who do share & contribute work here.

We're lucky to have access to tools that are the result of many members' hard work. I believe the most important donation is to the XDA Forum itself! Any member who receives donations should be giving at least 10% of that back to the Forum. Also, I'd like to see NO Paypal buttons or donation solicitations on signatures! On a given thread where a developer has something to offer, I think to allow but not require donations is great. That content should STILL BE AVAILABLE to ALL, or not allowed. (like Universal ROM-CAB Coverage, Michael Moore style!)

Embrace the good or bad commentary/questions/emotional reactions/etc., because both sides make XDA the forum it is. Let common sense & the XDA spirit prevail.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] DAFTEK:
"WAS?" :rolleyes: You should edit that...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] walshieau:
you must have missed the leaving party austinsnyc.... oh thats right...

we all had a party that you were leaving and taking your bulls**t with you...

hehehe... maybe i said too much :eek: :eek: :eek:
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] ChaoticDruid:
I agree donations should be prohibited here, and only made to XDA, if GFY INC. was a high caliber site like XDA, and I had members asking for donations for themselves, I would put a stop to that crap real fast.

I highly doubt anyone is taking traffic away from XDA, people will always use this as a homebase basically, I imagine.

I have never asked for donations in any of my projects(not talking so much about here, I havent done anything important to even consider worth money), and from all the posts by Austinsnyc, I have never seen him mention he wanted donations either.

In response to your forum comment about people leaving, and traffic being profit etc, umm no, in the case of gfy.zapto.org, traffic just slows it down, that site is hosted on a headless CompaqDL580 in a basement, on a DSL line, and even though it would be nice to say "hey members I need some donations" and move the forum to paid host(would fix the current mailing issues) it will never happen, I have already priced a year of hosting, and it would be about 90 bucks..I could handle that fee myself, and not milk donations for it.

And to people with the "austinsnyc..your site isnt doing good, and so on"(not meaning any one specific person, just clearing this up)...Austinsnyc just posts his ROMs etc there..I invited him to do so, all site maintenence and the whole dang server was set up from a remote desktop connection by me on my dinky little TyTN, so if you want to bash the site, direct it twoards me, it isnt his fault if the forum has slight issues at times.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] austinsnyc:
To bad I missed thr party. what's even more funny is the fact that people are charging to beta test a rom... I can see now why there are so many personal issues on an online forum I believe the key point there being online. I will not lower myself to name calling and saying your forum suck or your rom sucks we are all here for one thing and if that thing is making yourself feel better than trying to put me down enjoy but the fact remains at the end of the day. My fixes and updates will never be charged for I will still be on Xda and my releases will be at the forum where I can moderate my threads. I'm not going to let to much out here but lets say my job at http://www.perceptivepixel.com is highly involved with the release of WM6 and we have a few key players making what you are using on your hermes right now. point being keep playing with yesterdays builds I know I won't...

In response to charging for releases and fixes - that really shows how far you have come in life. I will never charge 1 penny for anything that gets put out be me. I have a real life with a real job I would feel like a scum bag taking donations no matter how much work I put into a rom if I wanted to make money from cooking I would a job at MS or HTC. to me if you have a donation link it really shows how much class and character you have...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] vp3G:
Thanks for making these very valid and often overlooked points.

In my case the only reason I started accepting donations is because people kept asking 'Hey, how can I throw a couple bucks your way to thank you for your efforts?'.

I do this for fun and to feed my inner geek. I have a 'real' job that pays the bills. I don't drive a Porsche.

Collecting a few bucks from some very generous members here has gone toward two things: defraying the cost of development tools and utilities (of which there are plenty that aren't freely available at XDA), and coffee to keep me alert at my 'real' job after I've been up all night cooking ROMs for you ungrateful clods. :p
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] CUSTEL:
*yawns*....
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] pcm2a:
I hope you are least have a nice development job for your day work. I'm working on some perl scripts right this minute, well not this minute I don't guess.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] Sleuth255:
I "ahem" accept donations b/c I need a new 50" 1080P Plasma TV... & so far it aint working! :p

Just one $4000 donation is all I need. I'm hoping Bill Gates likes my ROMs :)

Seriously though, we started donations because people used to raise money for a given enhancement then try to give it to the developer that did the work. This was messy and led to lots of developers working independently. Additionally, once they accepted the "pot", it was assumed that they would be the support resource forever and responsible for all bug fixes, timely enhancements etc. Donations are a way to encourage development and teamwork. Case and point: there's never been anything like the WM6 ROMs here. Conversely, the bickerings are at an all-time high too.

Nothing's perfect I guess...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] armedmetallica:
Just one more post supporting Custel.

First and foremost, he supports his Roms like no other chef on here. Freaking guy answers questions that have been answered like a page ago.

Secondly, I think this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. In the end, cheers to the mods to deciding against permanent ban. However, I must say, Custel didn't ask for payments -- he just gave the donaters an early preview. I'm sure most of us donated as a 'thank you for your past work' -- not a 'please give me ur new work'. ONE low post count member posted a message completely flipping Custel's intentions. Perhaps intentional sabotage.... Another guy adds to that, then a mod steps in, and a few more join the frey. I'm no historian, but I believe that's how WWII started?

Custel, applause to you and your Roms. One word of advise -- don't leave. Stay through it all, and help bring this place back to the calibur it once was. Let them question your integrity.

Wise man once said "With Arrogance comes Ignorance." The ignorant pr!cks will always be arrogant. It's that arrogant jerk that started this whole war -- who again was a low count member...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] mds240:
One of those nameless "low post count" people was me. I posted a warning to CUSTEL telling him how what he was doing looked (largely because of how the people submitting new donations were acting, when you examine the thread closely) and asking him to be careful. I certainly wasn't trying to harm him in any way--I run his WM6 ROMs more than I run anyone else's.

As for his intentions, I wasn't trying to read his mind. I am familiar by trade with copyright infringement actions and I wanted to warn him (and everyone else involved). Because--regardless of any good intentions--perception can be everything. I assure you that M$ would have viewed things in the worst possible light and would likely have been able to obtain relief had they noticed and chosen to take legal action.

That being said, I am glad that the air has been cleared. I wish CUSTEL nothing but the best in his future endeavors.

Oh, and btw, I have a low post count because:

1. I am not a developer, just a reasonably-savvy end user.

2. I search and read before I post.

3. I don't post about issues that have already been reported.

4. With the exception of the above cartoon (I couldn't resist), I don't post if I don't have anything substantive to contribute. (E.g. no "I luv this, u r0x0r" posts in dev threads)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] JasenR:
Any donations given are well deserved, the chefs here turn out some awesome work. The problem was that when Custel said he would only release to folks who had made donations it started a flood of "here's my donation, send me the ROM" post. It wasn't anyones fault, it is just the nature of the beast. It did however give the perception of ROM selling which could quickly lead to Microsoft (who doesn't need any donations) wanting this site shut down. Custel, as expected, rapidly solved the problem and cleared the air. It's done, Custel needs to get back in the kitchen and Sleuth needs 4000 people to donate $1 to his TV fund.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] simon_darley:
ppl ppl ppl

this forum rox, not only due to the rom chefs, the gurus and the gods but also because of the users, the noobs, the testers.

we have so many intelligent ppl, helpful ppl, and friendly. not always the same ppl.

ppl cum n go, dont worry about. i started on xda II (himalaya) years ago, then universal, now hermes. i have used, tested n posted, given feedback, suggestions and helped others when IMHO i can.

AND i have never paid a cracker to anybody here. I had an argument a while back with vijay about donations which caused an uproar, and i realused due to this that i was a bastard, wrong, and sincerely apologised.

still, i posted, i was wrong and i learnt. thats how it goes.

if ppl go, fine, if noobs get flamed, fine, if chefs want donations, fine, if cookers get insulted, fine.

ppl, take the good with the bad, let ppl b who they r, take or contribute with money, time, upload, download whateva takes ur fancy.

we r all who we r, we give n take however it takes ur fancy. if u want to donate, if u cant, contribute, if u want to, just take n dont give.

i luv this forum, read email updates, here reading, learning, laughing at the comments, and sometimes in my own ltd way try to help somebody if i can.

xda will always be the best site, no matter who cums or goes, y cause of all the ppl still here, not because of those that left.

ppl will move on, do their own thing, all cum back to here, even if its to post links to their own site! thars fine, it all contributes to a collaborative knowledge sharing awesome site. there is nothin else newhere near as good.

realise that we are caught up in HERMES, but this site is so much more to so many other devices, with different gods in different forums.

shogumark austinsync are great, they put down to earth perspectives and throw in their opinions, just as maimach, buzz, pof, faria, lvvsw, custel, jasjamming, jwright, lt cmdr and all the other cooks give roms n updates and users test post and ask dumb questions.

xda is who it is cause of the whole devices gods users n noobs.

we r a community, respect everybody, get upset or angry sometimes, but in the xda is a WE not an I, it is as a community and group that we excel, not an "I".

IMHO IN THE FACE OF SUCH GODS HERE, i quivver n quake in fear of the backlash for posting IMHO, but still i post. Y? because, WE are a community, and i have a right to be heard, n u can flame or denegrate if u like as it is ur right 2.

gods, cooks, mods, users, noobs alike,nacross all forums and devices make us who we r, not anyone humble n not so humble contributor.

donate, or dont it doesnt matter. it us WE not I that makes this THE BEST SITE IN THE WORLD...

IMHO :) ur all great in ur own way.

Simon
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] Despiadado1:
For those that don't understand the issue... go and download Custel's rom from his site. Of course you'll have to "donate" before you have access to download it but hey, that isn't charging.... is it?

Oh yeah, I'll take that quarter custel. Just click my paypal link below. :rolleyes:
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] CUSTEL:
Apparently you didn't grasp the quarter concept... It's to call someone who cares....

Maybe you should check your literacy problem before instigating an already dead situation?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] Sleuth255:
RE: OP's mod control over his thread

This has been cited as a contention point by folks who subsequently leave.

While its true that we don't have that capability here, we do have something that's just as good. Mods often "fly tandem" on development threads to accomplish the same thing.

Here's an example of this in action:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=292466

Take a read through it to see just how well it works. If anyone wants mod control in their development thread, just ask for it in post 1 as dutty did in the example above. We torked a lot of n00b posts out of that one and they got the message & went to the discussion thread instead.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] dno555:
well put

thanks man !!!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] dno555:
one more thing to cooks

one more thing to cooks

When you start getting paid for your work naturally “payee” assumes you are obligated to support your Rom all the way and answer all N00b questions that irritates everybody here.

SO if you get paid then don’t get irritated by questions

If I want to send few $$$ I will find a way to send them to you. I will PIM you for the link to donate.

Just my thought

sorry for my bad engish by the way.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] mfabre:
I may have a solution for you. My 42" plasma is becoming too small for my old eyes. As soon as I collect the $4000 for the 50+" replacement though my "please help an ailing XDA member" donation campaign, you can have my 42" ;)

This thread is hilarious!!! How much money do you (well not all of you) make in real life to put so much energy (and anger) into a the issue of few donations here and there?

I personaly believe that the collective knowledge and expertise (let alone source of sheer fun) available through XDA just doubles the value of our fairly expensive devices. If we are to ***** about a few bucks here and there, why don't we all carry Nokia 1100s? 4GB microSD cards are just coming into the market, probably at twice the price they will have in a month or two, but we are all rushing to order... Oh well...

If the purpose of the forum is to create an aftermarket resource for software and OS, let's call it xda-bay.com. We could all bid for the "best ROM of the week".

Seriously... I've donated to both the forum and a couple of others. It was my way of saying thank you and a small "giving back" in an area where I am yet unable to seriously contribute technically. But... as stated before, the value of XDA is not just in the marketplace for cooked WM6 roms to upgrade our devices a few months in advance. Some of us are here for what's behind a cooked ROM. I thank the cooks, but I thank even more the pioneers and original hackers.

EDIT: just a small PS. Not many of the people making very good points about pros and cons of donations or who intedend to do what seem to be carrying any little yellow stars near their usernames. I wonder what those little stars mean... get it?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] shogunmark:
:D in the time i have been here i have recieved 1 $20 donation, i took the most part of that donation and put it back in the board.. which in my opinion is how it should work, if someone recieves a donation they should give back to the board (i didnt say all of it, but definitely some of it)... quite honestly i think if someone were to get $100 in donations then there is no reason why they shouldnt have at least 3 stars by their name..
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] tora201:
Only one $20 doallar donation? You are joking, right? Just how many beers does that buy these days?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] shogunmark:
nope not joking... never really cared to recieve them, but figured i would give myself a donate link and if someone wanted to donate to me then i would just give some back. But it dont buy a lot of beer, but it does buy some :D