yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] pvs:
Exteremely, MrVanx... EXTREMELY! Only to be outdone by your wonderful guides...easy to follow and up to date. You provide a wonderful service to these forums, and I always look forward to your posts.

Sorry I haven't yet made a donation in your direction. It will be coming soon.

All the best,

-pvs
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] Dr Puttingham:
Easy there bro... that kinda attitude got the elf kicked out of the house...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] austinsnyc:
You know I would go easy just everytime my faith is restored in the people here the stupid bug seems to bite again. like asking questions that where answerd in a post right above or someone wanting to be spoon fed its almost to the point where no one wants to do anything for themselves. that's pretty sad if you ask me im sure most of the cooks here did not receive the amount of help that has been given in just the past month. I understand helping people but I also understand earning respect and until that's done give me a reason why I should spoon feed when there is a search button and google.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] panzer:
pretty obvious answer(s) :D
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] walshieau:
why create another thread in 'Hermes Mobile 6', this should be put in the 'General Section'

and as far as i have seen it the abuse has been dramatically in the past few weeks
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] ach2:
Sometimes the abuse is (IMHO) justified.

This post generally makes my blood boil http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=311698 - the asshole keeps appearing in many guises, doesn't want to help but only make money. If this is the first post you see when you log on you get pissed off, then get carried away with the 'Flashing LSVW bricked my V3' type of threads.

In my opinion, ronfin44 was perfectly justified in (mildly) flaming this guy.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] leo-chan:
Awww fishing for praise now? ahhahah!

Of course it's been helpful.. Honestly, I'm pretty impressed with the impartial, well thought replies that you always give.

[mumbles]Wish I could say the same for me hee hee![/mumbles]
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] Sleuth255:
@ach2: woah :eek:... missed that one. thanks for the link, thread deleted and user banned forever. That form of blatant advertizing isn't tolerated here and we make every attempt to pull it. PM any mods if you guys see that stuff....
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] walshieau:
this one http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=311698

and this one http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=311683

and this one http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=311699
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] Sleuth255:
yeah... I deleted all 25 of them...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] agovinoveritas:
Although generally I do not make much of an issue with noobs I would like to offer a counterpoint.

I think the issue is that as a tech-head oriented website, what is expected of all members is to read the wiki's and the plethora of info already archived.

It seems new people to the forum don't do that. How about if new members turn the issue the other way. A lot of people have helped contribute to that repository, but people don't even bother to search it first and expect those very talented people to drop everything and help you with something that perhaps they just covered with someone else the day before and someone else the week prior to that.

I am not insulting anyone here, but I think, as in anything there are always two sides to every coin and this is why some people would feel in the right to be very blunt about it. Mind you that is no reason to be rude either, of course. But really, it is both a give and take here.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] walshieau:
well said... :)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] jokinawa:
I like this also. I think that a 5 day restriction on posting would help the process. When you create a new account you have to wait 5 days before you can post or pm. This would make people more inclined to read while they wait.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] esseff:
Gotta support the abusers.

Some posts I read make me shake my head in disbelief. My only relief is when someone tell them like it is.

If you want a forum for your ganny/mother/wife/daughter, go check out the ones on needle point or geranium growing.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] leo-chan:
Absolutely! *cues Smurfs theme*
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] todd_jg:
I am gonna throw in here and agree too. There is a barrier to entry to this site and there is no shame in that. The barrier to entry should be a reatively small invenstment of time in self-education. Very nicely put sir.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] agovinoveritas:
I hate to throw more wood into the fire. But for example, on this post a user gives and FYI about a new version of Google Maps Mobile. In a tech-headed forum that alone is more than enough for me to go look up the app, install and then comment\post on its performance, right? No big.

In a Noob forum, the thread stops because someone 'needs' a link for the app or the *.cab file file posted. And simply waits, playing with their thumbs until the OP or someone else comes back, reads, goes to search for the link or download the cab, posts and uploads it so the noob can save himself 20 seconds of searching.

It's GOOGLE for God's sake! Like for real, how hard is it to type "Google Maps Mobile" on the search page? And then Noobs wonder why people get annoyed.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=311770
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] pvs:
Getting annoyed at this kind of stuff is justified and only human. Posting a 'search here' reply or ignoring the post altogether is fine.

Posting flaming words that are arrogant, obscene and immature brings down the quality of the entire forum, and does more damage to the forum than the original lazy post. And these messages detract from the forum for months, as they remain in the historical record.

I BELIEVE this is what the OP was discussing.

-pvs
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] TheGadgetGuy:
I tend to agree.

I just read that topic, and was surprised at how harshly criticized the original poster was, just because he forgot to include a link to the file.

It seems to me that the new posters to this forum need to acquire a sense of common decency and have respect for fellow users.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] Sleuth255:
folks, I'm moving this thread to the hermes general section...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] Sadlybrokeboy:
Can I just say that by you say in your op on the "damning" thread that it's not personal, then by singling it out as you have, you've have made it personal. I also think that that you're rant is a little small-minded and unhelpful.

I asked for the link, simply because a) I'd actually didn't KNOW that there was a google maps for PPC - forgive me for missing one app in the whole PPC world AND b) I personally think that if you're posting a link to a new version of an app or something like that - it's a good idea to post the link (I DIDN'T ASK FOR THE FILE BTW) - it would stop alot of people asking the same thing.

Common sense I thought!! But there you go, it seems that I'm a "noob" - If I'm a noob - I think that I can live with that if it includes having common sense.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] agovinoveritas:
Personal? Far from it. The fact remains that a thread like "Can the abuse be toned down..." can go on forever unless there are examples to what people both new and old are referring to. Otherwise, how are new people supposed to know? Hence why I put this in the spotlight. As I said it is not about you per se, just using it as an example. It could have been a bunch of other people and I guess that is part of the issue.

You are missing the point. No one knows everything, that is for sure. But first, this app has been reffered to numerous times in the past in XDA-Developers and forum does refer to new people doing them to find more info. Especially if it is an update. T

he logical think would do is search at your own speed about it, learn what it does, maybe find some issues that could come about on your phone and then decide if you want it or not.

The way it remains now is that a noob would click on it, without knowing next to nothing about it as you just mentioned. If you screw up in some noob way, then you will be back whinning that it didn't work for you, that it was not the best app or that it gave you errors and 'expect' someone to help you out. The issue is a lack of research on part of new members.

Once again, it is not about you per se. You are only one small example to what has added to a larger issue.

PS:. Common sense also means taking innitiave. You really didn't expect the poster to explain to you every single detail of Google Maps Mobile, now did you?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] Sleuth255:
@mikechannon: yeah, I was first inclined to leave this thread in upgrading but then the conversation turned more towards generalizations.... This is vg content and I'm becoming inclined to move it again to the general area.

That being said, it is the Hermes forums that are now experiencing the most abuse, this from the wizard forums a short while back.

We need to understand each other, both newbies and gurus. All points here are valid.

now to get back on topic:

As the OP, I'd have posted the link. As the responder, I'd have done the search then posted the link in the second post..... ;)

This is what we need to get back to IMO.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] MikeChannon:
@sleuth

I agree many of the points are of a general nature, and also that Hermes boards are the current focus. So no problem with the thread being here and even the enlightened members here should be aware of the "dark side" That was the reason for my words of explanation above.

Mike
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] peezy:
Another note that I might find worty of mentioning is that often times I see a redundant question posted by a less than 5 post member, and I search their post history. More times than not, a new memeber signs up to this site, and post 2-3 threads within a matter of minutes. And a greater amount of time these are questions that have been already answered. Thats why I would strongly support any type of time-specific or knowledge-specific requisite for new membership. Last night I was looking for a cab that I forgot to save from a while back and it took me almost 20 minutes to search through the posts and find it. I am all for training, development, and support of new members, but at the same time we ought to take an active approach to letting new members in.

IT seems like this site is facing the same problem the US is with illegal immigration. You draw the conclusions yourself....
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] johnburn:
I think we're all in violent agreement here, but I'd like to propose another path that we can follow instead of snapping someone's head off in another "n00b attack" (and by the way, I've noticed that not all of the "dumb" or repetitive questions are solely from n00bs either). Instead of responding with a nasty remark, just ignore the post. Eventually the message will get out to everyone that this is supposed to be a developer's forum and not a general help desk for PPCs.

After realizing that I have also been guilty of a few (albeit toned down) snappy comebacks of my own, this is the track that I have decided to follow. It does mean that I tend to lurk more and post less, but that way the quality of responses is higher. And when I do respond to a question that has already been asked or responded to, I try to reference the original thread.

Just my $0.02 worth,

John
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] charbz:
I've read the whole post and I've seen a lot of opinions and arguments against and for the point.

I'm not a big poster myself, but I've learned a massive amount from XDA-Dev, and have tried to constructively contribute where I can. Every single one of those noob questions, I might've wanted to ask at times, but all the senior members are right, it's as simple as doing a search or a read through the wiki (as simple as 20 minutes might be if you're not lazy).

In my opinion, there is no justification for a noob question. It is a lack of respect for how far this forum has come, what this forum is about and where this forum is going. You don't go into another man's territory and try to change their culture.

Personally, I side (shamelessly) with the guru "team" - and you're kidding yourselves if you don't acknowledge that there are "teams" in this situation.

I'm in love with my Hermes and it's customisation. I go crazy with it - which leads me to say that I've done a lot of things to and learned a lot of things about my Hermes (with some help from mrvanx - haha thanks a lot!) I've been able to do it without asking stupid, easily answerable questions. Come to think of it, I've never asked a question on here because there is so much info here and out there.

Basically what I'm saying is - NO EXCUSES. If you don't want to P*SS OFF senior members and moderators of this forum (or even noobs like myself), then don't go asking stupid questions or straight forward questions. Want a link or cab? Google it like I do. Want to know how to cook a rom? Do your research, layout your findings to prove to this community that you're not a leech and get feedback, so as to create a constructive post. Got an issue with you're phone? This forum has a very helpful search function - learn to use it as I have and try to provide feedback to existing threads about the same bloody issue, rather than creating seperate threads, therefore p*ssing everyone off and scattering the subject between several threads.

It's frustrating seeing people try to justify their lack of initiative and laziness, then get annoyed when other members get frustrated with them. No excuse for being rude, but hey, I understand...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] pvs:
On the surface, this sounds like a good idea. But it's been discussed before, and I have found that the rebuttal argument often holds true ... that the lazy poster keeps coming back and asking the same question over and over - sometimes starting a new thread each time.

At this point, I am more in agreement to the idea of somehow disallowing posts for new members (or making them more difficult to enter into the system), until they've racked up some time in the forums. I don't know if it's possible to implement in this forum's software, but I have seen, on the phoneAlarm forums, for instance, that their board tracks the

amount of time you're logged in

... not just the number of posts. Maybe such a counter can be enabled here, and people who have fewer than XX number of hours cannot yet post.

Another idea would be to use that number of logged hours to identify newer members, and then build an interface that, when they wish to start a post, they are first asked to type a one-line summary of the question they wish to ask. That summary is turned into a query that shows them similar posts, one at a time, each time having them confirm that their question is still unanswered. Only when they have gone through all the previous, hopefully matching messages, can they get to an input field to begin a post.

I know either of these options (especially the second one) would be a huge development effort to set up, but I think they could work (or at least help).

-pvs
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] johnburn:
All good points, pvs. Most on-line support organizations make you do a search of their knowledge bases before allowing a question to be raised. Not sure how easy it would be to implement the same requirements in a bulletin board-type forum.

Still, I think some postings should just be ignored. Maybe if the mods closed and deleted these threads the message would get out. I still believe that part of the problem is that even if someone posts a dumb or repetitive question, somewhere in the miriad of replies and flames they will get the answer they were looking for in the first place. Even a response such as "Search the forum dumb@$$ and you will find these threads URL1, URL2, URL3..." basically did all the "hard work" for the original poster and got them the answer they were looking for. If we don't want to be a tech support help desk for lazy people, we should stop being one...

John
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] jokinawa:
How about the main 4 Hermes sub-forums are restricted to posting to members with a certain number of posts or time with an xda account. Then create a new sub-forum that all the noobs can ask questions and help each other along with anyone else who wants to help. They can still search the other 4 main sub-forums.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] pvs:
Cool idea! Sort of like an Elementary School for beginners. I like it, and it sounds as if it would be easy to implement. One can "graduate" to the other forums after a certain number of posts with the right "behaviors". They could petition the mods for admission to the advanced forums after so many (say 50?) posts, and the mods could check their posting history and make the decision.

-pvs
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] jokinawa:
Could probably make another membership level and name them:

0-49 posts = Restricted Member

50-99 posts = Member

100-~ = Senior Member

Restricted could only access the Newbie sub-forum for posting but could read everything else. Then Member and beyond has full access to all the other subs.

Maybe even limits for Restricted on PMs to Senior Members.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] AlbertoM:
Ón the other hand, I spent about 20 minutes doing a variety of searches trying to find the 3G icon fix bat file. The search engine led me around, as I was not asking the question right. I found lots of references to that file, and finally following those references I found the file. It would have been easier to ask, and risk getting flamed, but the trip in itself was a learning experience. And no, I don't have time to search, but if one wants the info...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] nanastas:
Interesting thread...

I've read this post with interest, as I've sort of noticed this trend to some degree as well.

overall the tone remains very helpful, but I do see a lot of noobs asking dumb questions, then getting the typical response.

I think i may have posted twice, but I've been on this board for a long time.

In a large part, i believe the root cause is that this site has become a renowned site for info on newer WM devices, and modifying and tweaking them. Many, many other sites are linking to the innovative posts here, so that the traffic has probably squared or even cubed in the last 2-3 months.

It's also a function of which forums you're reading, Cingular sells the 8525 fairly widespread, so there are a lot of people who have never had a PPC before trying to mod ROMS in their first month. Pop into the Himalaya forum, and see a different crowd (hardcore users trying to keep the old girl alive and kicking...)

That all said- I've been using a PPC since the days of the Casio Palm-sized PC; and consider myself very savvy with one, but I wouldn't dream of cooking or dumping a ROM on my new TYTN without the help of a "pro".

So that may make me seem like a noob, but i'm just a wuss.

I don't have the time to read through 400 posts for everything I need, but if I need it that bad- I will.

When I need to find something, I google it. I find it and I try it out.

This issue won't go away- I saw it on brighthand 5 years ago, and I see it again now... Sometimes its spelling errors, or grammar, or "dumb" questions, or just laziness.

All I can say is: Don't take the Internet too seriously. Ever.

...not even worth 2 cents....

--- oh hey- look! 5 posts!---
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] donzx6:
wow - been away for a few days and lots going on.

My point in the original post was to tone down the language.

If someone posts something which could easily be found by a search, why not either reply with - "Use the search" or don't reply at all.

To start badmouthing people and calling them names you'd hear in a school playground really lowers the tone of the forum.

I understand that to see silly questions may get the more experienced guys backs up, but some of the responses not only put off people asking silly questions, but also those with valid ones.

I just think why waste your time typing "useless dumb*ss f***wit" when you could save your time and not bother replying. Either way the OP will have to go and search.

Perhaps we should have a Tourettes subforum ???
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] dwalker3rd:
Noob Support Threads ... and better search please!

here's my take ...

i've been using this site since i bought my Hermes. it has been an excellent resource for anything i needed for my phone. but even after a year, i'm intimidated and sometimes afraid to ask. shouldn't be like that.

it is (or has become) very difficult to search through the numerous threads and posts. so to tell someone they must read it all first or use a search that, quite frankly, is not very good (google usu. knows more about what's in here than the built-in search) - how does that help?

how about some of the folks in this community (the more patient ones) take it upon themselves to monitor noob threads. they can provide direction to other threads, a little education/training, a little comfort to those panicked by a $600USD phone that doesn't work like it should, etc. support threads would be cool too - and who says they have to be free? somebody set themselves up on something like Skype Prime and make a little money while they help us out.

as to the information overload ... does anyone cleanup these posts? anyone monitoring the indexing and ensuring that the search is really doing what it needs to? the search really does need some help.

suggestion, not a complaint. b/c i love this site. my phone wouldn't be half as cool as it is w/o XDA-Developers!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam General] Doom Tints:
Let's use an analogy.

You are hired by an employer to answer questions for other people.

Invariably, as new people start to work at your company, the same questions will be asked.

Over and over.

You grow impatient and start being abusive.

You get fired.

Now, the purpose of this forum is to help other people. If anyone here is being abusive to a new Hermes owner asking a question, they simply do not understand the point of this forum. At all. I'm not saying that anyone should be banned, but if you are the type of person who is annoyed by people asking questions, perhaps a forum that exists for the sole purpose of answering questions is not the place for you.

I'm sure that most of the people who respond with nastygrams to people asking questions can tell by the topic of the original message whether or not the question is by a new Hermes user, and thus they can easily avoid reading these types of messages if it hurts them so much to read them.

People who flame others for asking questions reflects badly on everyone here. Self-moderation is very simple to do. It takes much less time (and causes much fewer veins to pop out of one's forehead) to simply ignore messages that aren't your cup of tea rather than type out messages attacking people. Attacking people, who I might add, are simply being trusting and asking honest questions so that they can learn more about using their Hermes.

As for the arguments that 'n00bs' are 'just too lazy to read the Wiki' -- note that a new user would still need to read any answer to their question written on the forum, so clearly they are not 'too lazy' to read. They simply need help finding the right direction to get their answer. Either point them there, or ignore them. Abusing them is weak.