yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
The issue is with taking the 5.1 soak, downgrading to 4.4.4 then taking the 5.0 OTA. The OTAs are supposed to fail if your system and recovery are not stock. I am sure the issue is taking the 5.0 update with the 5.1 bootloader and partition table - the OTA updater script does not adequately protect you from a hard brick when you have a higher version BL and PT than the system/recovery version you are running.

You simply cannot downgrade the bootloader despite what some people are saying here - it doesn't happen. Neither fastboot nor mfastboot will downgrade your bootloader. If people were on 5.0 system and then went back to 4.4.4 system and they are still on the 4.4.4 bootloader, then it is because they never successfully flashed the 5.0 bootloader. If they had successfully flashed the 5.0 bootloader, their bootloader would not flash back to the 4.4.4 bootloader using either fastboot or mfastboot.

What is going on with the OTAs that I have seen is that once you upgrade to 5.1 via the soak OTA, you flash back to 4.4.4, which will flash your system/kernel/ramdisk/modems/baseband/recovery back to 4.4.4 but not your bootloader or partition table. Then when they take the 5.0 OTA, which is a patch, the OTA updater script is trying to patch the 5.1 bootloader and partition table as if they were the 4.4.4. This should never happen - it is totally a Motorola mistake. The 5.0 updater script should detect that the person is on a different version bootloader and partition table than 4.4.4 and it should fail rather than hard brick the phone. But it doesn't.

It is infuriating that these people are hard bricking due to Motorola's bad coding and they are being denied warranty service due to having rooted. Root has nothing to do with it - the OTA updater scripts should be coded to fail if the person is on the wrong bootloader and partition table.

Your qe however will show you have rooted in the past if you have ever rooted before.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
No I don't. This thread is about downgrading the BL and PT. The other is about taking an OTA after you downgrade. Different things and both worthy of their own thread.
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
Unless something has changed, you can downgrade your bootloader using fastboot.

I've done it on my original Moto Atrix and LG Optimus G E970.

I have no reason to downgrade the BL on my Moto X, but saying that downgrading your bootloader with fastboot is impossible is false.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Neither of those are Moto X's!!!

This is a Moto X thread. I am not talking about any other devices.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
OMFG! Why would I be talking about other devices on this thread? JFC Peeps. I am not freaking talking about flip phones either.

I didn't think I needed to say that ON A MOTO X FORUM I AM TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WITH A MOTO X. But apparently I do.

JFC, I wish people would stop cluttering this thread with crap that isn't relevant. It is not freaking relevant to the Moto X what happens with other phones.

And NO!!! I am not wrong. As I said before NUMEROUS TIMES - YOU CANNOT SUCCESSFULLY DOWNGRADE YOUR BL OR PT ON THE MOTO X. Either you will get an error or you will brick. But you will not do it successfully. And as I also said, there have been rare exceptions - the MX13, I believe it was from 4.4 back down top 4.2.2. That was the only exception and jcase used it to root the MX13 on 4.4.

I really didn't think I needed to keep saying over and over and over again that I am talking about what happens with the Moto X. However, the same things are true of the related devices like the Droid Turbo and other Quark phones running Kit Kat and above.
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
There's no acceptable time to use profanity on XDA...

People have already said they have successfully downgraded the bootloader on the Moto X;

You talk to people on here like you're the absolute expert on flashing Motorola devices...How much experience do you have with development? Looking through your thread history it doesn't look like much.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
The ignore feature is a beautiful thing :D:D:D:D:D:good:
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
First, it's she.

Second, clearly you don't even know what the Q&A section is for. It is for anyone who needs help. I have been helping these people try to unbrick. You don't know that b/c you are such a noob you don't even understand the basics.

Third, what you are implying here is that someone has to actually brick their device before they can possibly know whether doing something would brick. Yeah, that's how it works, ROFLMAO!! According to you, no one can read what someone else posts stating what they did to cause a brick and then understand it and know themselves. We are all just reading comprehension imbeciles who can't understand what others write, lol! Perhaps that describes you, but it doesn't describe me.

The ENTIRE reason I posted these warnings is b/c I am reading about people bricking, trying to help them but without the blank flash files, there is no solution for them. Motorola is refusing warranty service on their devices b/c they rooted. So I am urging others be more cautious as we aren't clear why exactly some people are bricking. And although we don't know why, we do know what they did to cause the brick b/c they are telling us what they did. And across the board they brick when downgrading and taking OTAs after downgrading. WHICH ARE THE SAME THINGS THAT CAUSED SO MANY MX13's TO BRICK IN THE PAST!!! I get nothing out of posting these warnings. All I am trying to do is to warn others so they don't end up in the same, sad situation.

At some point perhaps it will become clear why this is happening but right now we don't know. All we know is that it is happening. In that situation, urging caution is the prudent thing to do. Why some of you would try to undermine that, idk but I certainly don't respect your behavior. If all you have to say is to tell me about how you were successfully able to downgrade the bootloader of some 3G phone you owned in 2010 running froyo or some LG phone well then please spare us all as THAT HAS NO RELEVANCE AT ALL TO A MOTO X RUNNING KIT KAT OR LOLLIPOP IN 2015.

And worse, by your false reassurances born of ignorance, you may induce someone to do something dangerous and end up with a brick. Now I live in the US and have quite a bit of disposable income. If I brick my device, BFD, I buy a new one and I won't even miss the money I spend for it. I am sure for some of these people they don't have the extra cash to go out and buy a new phone.

The other thing you don't seem to understand is that there are different models, different firmwares and different OTA updater scripts all designed/written by human beings. And these human beings can make mistakes. So just b/c an OTA update script for one carrier model may have been written properly to prevent a brick if you have downgraded, it doesn't mean the OTA updater script for another carrier model was also written properly.

Please quit cluttering this thread. You don't understand the basics and you have nothing of value to offer.

You have to be one of the most annoying noobs I have ever seen on these forums. As I said before, the ignore feature is a beautiful thing :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:good:
[X 2014 General] wolfu11:
[QUOTE=JulesJam,,, a she... figures. On Verizon...Locked Bootloader.....Enough said.
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
Like you mentioned, I've been doing this since those "3G Phones", Motorola's architecture has stayed pretty consistent over the years by the way, compiled my own builds, ported roms, etc; I know what I'm doing and I don't brick devices.

The fact that your tool of choice is the Motorola Device Manager, ala the iTunes of Motorola, speaks for itself.

When someone says they've downgraded their bootloader, it doesn't make it untrue just because you've read some posts in the Q&A forum; don't present speculation as fact.

Enough with the profanity or I'll report this thread;

It shouldn't even have to come to that; I've tried to be professional but when somebody says they did something and you respond with "no you didn't it's not possible" without any explanation whatsoever, it doesn't help the situation at all.
[X 2014 General] burnyi:
Hello, I got a brick. I had a pure firmware edition 5.1. After that, I installed 5.0 and Brazilian top-mounted 5.1 OTA. Now my phone will not turn on in bootloader mode does not start. Is there any possibility to restore the phone? The first generation, as far as I know, been able to recover.
[X 2014 General] TrippleT:
I did the 5.0 ota...but i dont like the colors of 5.0 (i'm colorblind)...so i just flashed the stock 4.4.4, that's all...(BL 60.0C/XT1092/EU/DE)...maybe the downgrade just brick provider phones or pure editions...or from other locations of the world...or you do a FW-Mix, like, have a EU phone, flash the 5.0/BR and dongrade to EU again or something like that...i did the DE 5.0 ota and dongrade with the DE 4.4.4, i mean i useed always FW from the same location...i have a DE (germany) Retail XT1092...
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
I don't think the XT1095 is on 5.1 yet. Do you mean you had an XT1095 on 4.4.4? What phone do you have?

So you took the 5.0 OTA for the Pure Edition (XT1095) and then flashed the Brazilian 5.1 soak OTA through recovery?

If you plug it into your computer, does it show as QHSUSB_DLOAD?
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Until I see a video or a post from a credible source showing that a Moto X successfully was upgraded to the 5.0 bootloader and then downgraded to the 4.4.4 bootloader, I am not buying it. There was one rare exception where a Moto X bootloader could be downgraded successfully but even on the N6, they aren't able to downgrade their bootloaders.
[X 2014 General] burnyi:
Initially my model -1097(4.4.4). After that I unlocked the bootloader and installed Pure Edition XT1095 Lollipop 5.0. After that was installed via recovery 5.1 Lollipop OTA ZIP (Pure Edition XT1095).

Then I decided to try the latest OTA (Brazilian 5.1). To do this, set the full firmware 1097 (Brazil 5.0). And after that flashed the Brazilian 5.1 soak through OTA via recovery. The Bootloader in the Brazilian version after the update was 60.14.

After a few days of use I decided to return to XT1095 PURE EDITION 5.1 and installed Pure Edition XT1095 Lollipop 5.0. After that was installed via recovery 5.1 Lollipop OTA ZIP (Pure Edition XT1095). When flashing OTA pop up error about downgrading the bootloader. After flashing phone not included.

When I connect it to the computer, the phone will be recognized as QHSUSB_DLOAD. Sometimes when I long hold on power button - the green led lights up.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
So you did an XT1097 to XT1095 conversion.

Then you took the XT1095 5.1 soak OTA via recovery.

Then you flashed back to the Brazilian XT1097 5.0.

Then you were stable on the Brazilian 5.1 Soak.

So you bricked when you took the XT1095 5.1 soak OTA while your bootloader already was on 60.14 after having taken the XT1097 5.1 soak OTA.

Looks like the XT1095 5.1 soak OTA does not have adequate checks in it to prevent a brick if someone has downgraded before - just like the Brazilian 5.0 OTA.

Unfortunately, we need the files MPRG8974.hex and MSM8974_bootloader_singleimage.bin and the latter must be signed by Motorola from all I have read.

http://xdaforums.com/moto-x/general/how-to-resurrecting-bricked-moto-x-t2629057

http://xdaforums.com/moto-x-2014/general/mprg8974-hex-8974msimage-mbn-moto-x-2014-t3106139

On this thread someone said the hex file is available:

http://xdaforums.com/moto-x-2014/help/exists-mbm-ci-blankflasher-tool-t3103585

but the bin file is still needed. Again, from all I have read the bin file must be signed by Motorola and that means we can't create it - it must be released or leaked by Motorola. I wish that weren't true and hope that I am wrong on that point.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
This is an example of one reason why I recommend that people not take an OTA. An OTA is a patch - if it doesn't have adequate checks in it (and clearly the XT1095 5.1 soak OTA and the Brazilian 5.0 OTA do not have adequate checks in them), it tries to patch even if it is patching the wrong version of the bootloader. Result = hard brick.

And as of now, we do not have the files to blankflash the MX14 bootloader to restore these hard bricks.

My advice - do not use OTAs to upgrade - use Motorola Device Manager. MDM is not an OTA updater script. It flashes the full version of the files and has checks in it so that it will not attempt to downgrade your bootloader. As a bonus, it leaves a copy of the full files on your computer.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Another example of a hard brick after taking the Brazilian 5.1 soak OTA then downgrading to 4.4.4 then taking the Brazilian 5.0 OTA:

http://xdaforums.com/moto-x-2014/help/help-hard-brick-moto-x-2014-t3116211

Obviously, these OTA updater scripts don't have adequate checks in them and are hard bricking people. And we don't have the files to restore the MX14. :(
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
I don't know about this "blankflash" tool, I think Qualcomm's QPST would be a better bet.

When the device is detected as qhsusb_dload, it's falling back to Qualcomm's lowest level hardware driver, essentially a QPST driver waiting for a low-level flash, it's mostly common with HTC devices when people start messing with S-off, etc.

When I get home I'll try and pull the stock images needed for flashing with QPST.

---------- Post added at 06:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 PM ----------

@JulesJam Do you have an XT1096? It may be beneficial for you to pull your phones images with QPST as well so we can organize a low-level image repo.
[X 2014 General] J5333JF:
Thanks for the information.
[X 2014 General] ismailonrails:
Thanks for sharing. so what you mean to say is I should not try to upgrade from kitkat to lollipop 5.1?

I've Moto X 2014 Pure Edition XT1095, I first took 5.0 soak test then I downgraded to 4.4.4 to take regular 5.0 update. then after sometime I took 5.1 soak test. few days back I reverted to stock android 4.4.4. though I couldn't flash partition and motoboot. then few days later I tried to take android 5.0 update via OTA, when it enter bootloader/recovery after downloading it didn't reboot or I should say It didn't install android 5.0 and I see black screen with exclamation mark with android. my device was not booting so I again flashed system, recovery, modem and kitkat working okay, but I figured bootloader is of 5.1. so any idea how can i safely update back to 5.0 and later to 5.1?

Thanks
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
Can you tell us your bootloader version?

An easy way is to download DeviceInfo from the play store;

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.jphilli85.deviceinfo
[X 2014 General] burnyi:
As I understand it, if you updated OTA 5.1 Pure edition, the version of the bootloader is not changed compared to the one that was at 5.0. So you can flash the full firmware and then install the OTA 5.1 via recovery

But if you installed the OTA 5.1 for Brazilian XT1097, then bootloader version you have -60.14. and I don't recommend to install OTA. Need to wait for a full firmware 5.1
[X 2014 General] ismailonrails:
so my bootloader version is 60.14

---------- Post added at 08:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 PM ----------

its 60.14
[X 2014 General] burnyi:
And what is currently installed firmware ?
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
You should not take another OTA at this time - YOU RISK HARD BRICKING IF YOU DO. You got lucky that the 5.0 OTA failed instead of hard bricking.

If you want to go to 5.0, use Motorola Device Manager or RSDLite only. When the 5.1 OTA comes out - DO NOT TAKE IT. You should use MDM instead to upgrade to 5.1.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
He said he is on Kit Kat 4.4.4. So he is on the 5.1 bootloader running the 4.4.4 system/kernel/modems/basebands. He should NOT take any more OTAs at this time.
[X 2014 General] ismailonrails:
Yes I'm on android 4.4..4, seems like I'm stuck with kitkat now. how about I sideload android 5.0 OTA first then 5.1 without reboot ?
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Listen - if you take an OTA - it doesn't matter how you take it - you risk a HARD BRICK. I don't know how to be more clear on that.

If you want to update to 5.0 USE MOTOROLA DEVICE MANAGER (MDM) OR RSDLite.

The 5.0 OTA updater script is a patch and it will try to patch the 5.1 bootloader with a patch that was intended for the 4.4.4 bootloader - THIS IS HIGHLY LIKELY TO RESULT IN A HARD BRICK. Or it will fail if you are lucky.

If you use MDM or RSDLite instead, those flash FULL FILES not patches. And they have checks to prevent you from attempting to downgrade your bootloader or a bootloader/partition table version mismatch.

I would NOT take an OTA of any kind. Use Motorola Device Manager!!! You need to be on the 4.4.4 system and have the 4.4.4 stock recovery for MDM to work.
[X 2014 General] TrippleT:
Maybe i'm the 2nd...i dont know...it worked and i'm happy...when i got my new mobile i will do it again for a test...if it went wrong i dont care about because i have still my new one...
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
In order to know whether or not you in fact downgraded your bootloader, you have to get into bootloader mode and read the bootloader version both after the upgrade and then again after the downgrade. What is happening here is that people are merely upgrading/downgrading system and/or kernel/modems/basebands and not the bootloader.

Again, when I see a video from a credible poster showing this then I will believe it. Too many people here don't know what they are talking about - they don't even know the difference between motoboot.img and boot.img. And anyone can post anything on the internet - doesn't mean it is true.
[X 2014 General] ismailonrails:
Thanks for your help :), MDM didn't work for me but I found firmware for android 5.0 and flashed it, except partition I have flashed everything successfully. now I'm on android 5.0, now will try to update to 5.1 and see if it works. BTW this is the link from where I got firmware for my XT1095 model.

http://motofirmware.center/files/file/76-tmo_xt1095_50_lxe2246-11_cid9_cfcxmlzip/

---------- Post added at 11:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------

BTW I don't see update when I go to system and settings. I've also tried with MDM got same reply.
[X 2014 General] ismailonrails:
So Finally I'm running android 5.1 of pure edition. I first flashed 4.4.4 leaving partition and motoboot then I flashed android 5.0 firmware but had no update but I've found that latest OTA was captured by someone so I've sideloaded and now I'm running android 5.1 23.11.14
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
great news!!
[X 2014 General] xKroniK13x:
For clarification on my part: I just got my Moto X. Coming from a Motorola RAZR M, there were two separate bootloaders - one from Jellybean and one from KitKat. ROMs made from the JellyBean era would only boot if you had the JellyBean boot loader. Newer ROMs only boot on the KK boot loader. So now my question: do all X 2014 ROMs boot, regardless of your boot loader version? I am on 5.0 OTA, is there anything specific I need to look for with a ROM prior to flashing? Is the only reason you would ever have to downgrade if you take a soak and then decide to rollback to your previous firmware? Just trying to grasp everything before doing any sort of flashing! Thanks!
[X 2014 General] cwestpha:
Have a moto X 2nd Gen and I have been running into all of the fun failed messages trying to get back to 4.4.4 or at least a semi-stable 5.0. My versions are pretty funky now and I am getting errors when trying to flash system.img and boot.img. I went through this entire thread, but haven't found a clear answer to the issues I am having.

Do we have a known way to get everything back to an out-of-the-box recovered state?

System version is 23.1.28

Baseband is 2147.127.04.57R

Build is LPE23.28

bootloader 60.14
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Did you try mfastboot to flash the system.img?
[X 2014 General] cwestpha:
Yes, same errors, unfortunately. I kind of wish Moto would get caught up and release full proper recovery images. They seem to spend so much time trying to stop people from running around the OEM unlock restrictions for third-party roms without leaving a record of it remaining they make recovering from official builds. Sometimes you just want to do the Android equivalent of a DFU or fdisk/partd install from scratch.

error for boot.img is invalid signed image, for System.img its invalid PIV signed system image. I am trying to avoid unlocking my bootloader since I should be able to do this since everything at every step was official signed moto images anyways.
[X 2014 General] IcarXd:
Any definitive solution to the hard brick in moto x (XT1097)?:crying:
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
IME flashing system.img and/or boot.img (no matter what the version) does not brick your device. You may get stuck at the logo or end up in a bootloop, but you can recover from those if you have the signed factory images for your bootloader version.

The things to worry about are:

1) downgrading the bootloader (motoboot) and/or the partition table (gpt.bin);

2) bootloader/partition table version mismatches; and

3) taking an OTA after downgrading after upgrading.

Wrt #1, you will either fail to downgrade those or hard brick.

Wrt #2, you may or may not hard brick - if you can get into bootloader mode and correct the version mismatch using the signed files for the version you need then you can recover, but if you cannot get into bootloader mode or you don't have the signed files for the version you need then you are bricked.

Wrt #3, this either works or it hard bricks your device and it depends on whether or not the particular OTA updater script was written properly and has sufficient checks in it to prevent a brick. We can't tell ahead of time whether the OTA updater script was written properly so the only way to know is for someone to try it and then see if they brick. Obviously, I would not be the one to try it. We know if you took the Brazilian XT1097 soak 5.1 OTA, then downgrade to Brazilian XT1097 4.4.4 then take the Brazilian XT1097 5.0 OTA you will hard brick. It appears that the same is not true if you do the same with the Pure Edition XT1095 images/OTAs based on what some are reporting, but I personally would not take the chance.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
People downgrade for all sorts of reasons, sometimes they took a soak and then want to downgrade so that they can take the official OTA (which as we are seeing is quite dangerous and can result in a hard brick), other times they just don't like the upgrade (bugs, features they don't like) and so want to roll back and use an earlier version and other times they messed something up, e.g., wiped their system partition, and they don't have the current version OS factory images for their model but do have an earlier version so they flash those to try to correct what was messed up.
[X 2014 General] xKroniK13x:
Good information, thanks for the explanation. Coming from a different Motorola device, the only way to hard brick was flashing a boot loader for a different device (I had xt907 RAZR M, all of the firmwares were the same for HD and Maxx RAZRs, so people thought you could just flash them all interchangeably, but you'd hard brick due to boot loader version). Good to be caught up to speed with what does and does not brick this device... Don't need to be that guy!
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Looks like some PE XT1095 owners are bricking after downgrading from 5.1 to 4..4.4 then taking the 5.0 OTA.

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=61085589&postcount=6
[X 2014 General] wolfu11:
---------- Post added at 01:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 AM ----------

[/COLOR]

I asked him the (one) person claiming this and actually it was a converted XT1092 (german variant) not a XT1095 Pure Edition and if you read what he did there is no wonder he bricked it.
[X 2014 General] Sdobron:
Why would you need signed images if your bootloader is unlocked?