yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
I am basing it on what I am reading on the Q&A forum, and it seems like it is occurring during downgrading attempts.

But what about regular fastboot from the SDK?

What is different CID?

Well, there are plenty of them on the Q&A forum. They tell you what they did most times or you can ask. I usually ask and downgrading is the answer I most often get.

Edited - I just posted a poll so maybe we can get data that way on why people are bricking.

http://xdaforums.com/moto-x-2014/help/poll-caused-to-brick-t3106073
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
So what do you think was different about the 5.1 leak?

Also, do you know where to get the files MPRG8974.hex and 8974_msimage.mbn for the MX14 so these people can restore their bootloaders?
[X 2014 General] aroronchynn:
This thread makes me wonder. I have been running the 5.1 OTA leak since it came out, thinking i could just flash back to KK to do a normal upgrade. Now... I am worried I can't. I havent done much flashing on my Pure Edition, but I don't want to brick it by accident either.

Can I flash back to KK, and use OTA packs to get back to stock 5.0, without touching the partitions and bootloader? Or even just flash a full 5.0 image...
[X 2014 General] nbell13:
Yes. I've done both tons of times.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
why not just flash back to 5.0? Just don't flash the bootloader or partition table.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
I really hope the 5.1 OTA updater script has been fixed compared to the KK updater scripts and the people who upgraded to 5.1 and then downgraded to 5.0 won't brick when they take the 5.1 OTA. I know in the past on KK, that would cause a brick. Hopefully Motorola got its act together on that and it won't happen.

The responses to my poll on what caused a brick are downgrading and taking OTAs. I asked for more specifics but you also can read the Q&A threads to see how people are bricking.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
So another poster on the Q&A forum explained how their friend bricked - they had flashed a 5.1 OTA zip through recovery and then while still on 5.1, tried to flash a different 5.1 OTA zip for another model. Now that was a really outrageous thing to try IMO, but nonetheless, the person bricked so these OTA updater scripts don't have perfect checks in them to prevent bricks.
[X 2014 General] adm1jtg:
As far as my understanding goes the bricks are caused by messing with motoboot and gpt files. Specificaly downgrading those and later taking an OTA. I come from a moto x2013 and have talked to one of the main people on that phone that is familiar with the entire scenario (kid dynamite) and he assures me the situation could well be the same as for 2013. The only safe way to "downgrade" is to fastboot flash ONLY system and boot. That will be 100% safe from a brick BUT could cause some instability and issues due to a mismatch between system and bootloader.

I should add that if i downgraded system and boot as i am recommending that before taking an ota i would re-up both those partitions via fastboot to what matches the bootloader and gpt files.

This is my understanding I could be wrong but have researched this and this is what I came up with.
[X 2014 General] emb531:
How do you check the bootloader version? I don't see anything with version # on the bootloader screen
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Second line - 5.0 bootloader is 60.11.
[X 2014 General] Steve-x:
That was not a brick, the phone still booted to the bootloader. The problem was not related to trying to perform a downgrade. It occurred because the person was experimenting with soak files when they really shouldn't have and also had not unlocked their bootloader.

It would be easy to recovery with a full 5.1 image from the original provider/CID.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Well that is true, it was a bootloop.

what is cid?
[X 2014 General] Steve-x:
Country ID, and in some cases region ID. US = 9, Canada = 14, Brazil etc = 12.
[X 2014 General] rohithksaj:
damn...i tried to downgrade the bootloader many times to come back to stock.....and all the times it showed failed..............thank god........:D
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Another person responded wrt how they bricked (true brick). They flashed the Brazilian 5.1 and then successfully downgrade to 4.4.4, then attempted to take the 5.0 OTA and bricked doing that.

So Motorola has not fixed the problem with the OTA updater scripts - you can still brick taking an OTA once you have downgraded.

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=60735742&postcount=31

If you have previously upgraded to 5.1 and then downgraded, I would not take an OTA again. Instead, I would wait for the fxz and flash the stock system/kernel/radios or better yet, use MDM to update.
[X 2014 General] Nicolae-Daniel:
Hello there. Just to be sure, can i go back from 5.0 to 4.4.4 SAFELY? If yes , what should i flash from this list?

system.img_sparsechunk.4

system.img_sparsechunk.3

system.img_sparsechunk.2

system.img_sparsechunk.1

system.img_sparsechunk.0

recovery.img

NON-HLOS.bin

motoboot.img

logo.bin

gpt.bin

fsg.mbn

boot.img

XT1092 bootloader unclocked

[MENTION=5090002]wolfu11[/MENTION] could you please share the link to downgrade instructions?
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
You can go back to 4.4.4 system/kernel/radios safely but you can NEVER safely downgrade the bootloader. One of two things will happen if you try to downgrade your bootloader - either fastboot/mfastboot/RSDLite will give you a failed message and it won't downgrade or it will downgrade and you will brick. From what everyone here is saying, they have always gotten failure messages and so their bootloaders don't downgrade and they don't brick.

I know that RSDLite has always had checks that prevent you from downgrading your bootloader. Motorola Device Manager also will not let you downgrade your bootloader. From what is being reported here, the newer versions of fastboot and mfastboot seem to have those checks too now. I am certain in the past that there were versions of fastboot and mfastboot that did not have those checks so if you are going to flash manually, I would make sure that you use the most current versions of fastboot/mfastboot.

There was a rare exception to the rule where you were able to safely downgrade your bootloader - I believe it was from 4.4 to 4.2.2 on the MX13 but that is the only time I can recall when you could safely downgrade your bootloader.
[X 2014 General] wolfu11:
.https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/standalone/bootloader/recovery-images
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
These are the system images and they are safe to flash.

This is the recovery image and it is safe to flash.

This is the modem and it is safe to flash. However, if you flash a different version of the modem than your baseband, your phone may not work properly.

This is the bootloader - I would never try to flash it manually.

This is the boot logo and it is safe to flash.

This is the partition table - I would never try to flash it manually unless I had soft bricked my device and I needed to reflash the partition table to try to unbrick and I was certain that I was flashing the proper version of the partition table for my bootloader.

This is the baseband and it is safe to flash but your phone may not work properly if you flash a different version of your baseband than your modem.

This is the kernel/ramdisk and it is safe to flash as long as you are flashing the same version as the system. If you try to flash a different version of system.img than boot.img, your phone may not boot and you will have a soft brick.
[X 2014 General] Nicolae-Daniel:
Thank you! Very nice explained.
[X 2014 General] Steve-x:
I don't agree with your recommendation to never manually flash motoboot or gpt. If someone has version 4.4.4 and they want to flash the full version of 5.0 they should flash all files, not just some of them or they risk further problems because of file version mismatches.

If say they just want to experiment with a newer build it may make sense to not flash them.

To me anytime a newer full version is released I would recommend flashing all files so the entire phone OS is at a stable known version. Then if in the future they have forgotten what they done, sold the phone, given it away etc and there is another new version it will upgrade properly.

At the end of the day people simply shouldn't be experimenting or flashing their phone unless they know what they are doing and accept the risk.
[X 2014 General] Nicolae-Daniel:
Yeah,but I want to downgrade not upgrade,and to be honest, the only reason is that battery life sucks.I get 2h sot.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
My recommendation if they have never upgraded from 4.4.4 to 5.0 before is to use Motorola Device Manager. Not only does MDM have checks built into it, it will leave a copy of the fxz on your computer so you will have it if there is ever a problem and you need it.

There is no reason to ever try to manually upgrade the bootloader. If you know what you are doing, I agree then you can do it but too many people on these forums don't even know what version of the bootloader they are running before they flash. So with MDM not only do you not need to know, you get the bonus fxz files left on your computer.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
And I recommend letting MDM do it - same result but my way you get a copy of the fxz on your computer.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Same result if you use MDM but you don't have remember anything with MDM b/c of the built in checks. MDM trumps an owner's failing memory.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Right this thread is about downgrading not upgrading.

But even in the situation of upgrading never having upgraded before, my recommendation still stands - don't flash the bootloader manually. You could have a corrupt motoboot.img file on your computer and mfastboot/fastboot will try to flash it as long as it is not so corrupt that the correct version can't be read. And then, well, my guess is you would brick if you were to be able to flash a corrupt motoboot.img.

Use MDM instead - it does MD5 checks. So does RSDLite. You of course can do an MD5 check yourself if you have the MD5's and if you know how to do it. Or you can just let MDM do it for you and then you get the bonus fxz left on your computer :)
[X 2014 General] Steve-x:
You can't downgrade the bootloader or partition table anyway, it can only be upgraded.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
I am certain that earlier versions of fastboot/mfastboot did not have checks in them to prevent you from downgrading your bootloader. There were tons of bricked MX13's from people attempting downgrades back in the day.

It's great if there are checks built into the newer versions, but people still need to be aware of the potential issue and make sure they are using the newest versions of fastboot/mfastboot if they are going to downgrade.
[X 2014 General] matt1515:
Ok so I converted my Telus running 5.0(XT1097) to pure(XT1095) 4.4.4 I remember the bootloader and partition table failing. I then took ota to 5.0 and then flashed 5.1 soak. I have decided to sell this phone and now concerned about flashing back to Telus 4.4.4(can't find 5.0 Telus firmware) and taking ota? I guess I could just flash the 5.0 pure but would like to know if I can safely get this back to original safely?
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Definitely do not do that. Someone on the Q&A hard bricked doing that. He took the 5.1 soak, downgraded to 4.4.4 then he took the 5.0 OTA and now he has a brick.

I would leave it on 5.1 and then when the update is pushed, I would downgrade to 4.4.4 only system/kernel/radios/baseband/recovery then use Motorola Device Manager to update the system/kernel/radios/baseband/recovery to 5.1.
[X 2014 General] matt1515:
Ok thanks I will do that. So would it be safe to downgrade to Telus 4.4.4 and then use MDM to get to 5.0? Also if I stayed pure would it be as simple as flashing official 5.1 system over soak or will everything be different? Just wouldn't want to risk the brick definitely not worth it and appreciate the heads up on this.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Yes, that should work.

MDM looks at your system version and then flashes the full images unlike the OTA which is a patch. MDM also has checks built in so it shouldn't try to flash your bootloader partition if it is already upgraded.

But I still would not take the 5.1 OTA after doing that unless the Motorola instructions for the 5.1 soak test tells you that to get to the official 5.1 firmware after participating in the soak you should downgrade to 5.0 then take the 5.1 OTA.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Idk about the PE conversion process and as far as the soak to official conversion, Motorola must have some instructions they give out on what they want the soak testers to do to be able to run the official firmware.
[X 2014 General] matt1515:
That's a great point. Kind of what I figured and what I was planning was just to flash official 5.1 just didn't think Motorola would take this long to release official 5.1. I think I will hold off then because if I do that and sell it the new user may just go to do 5.1 ota and watch to phone never turn on again. I wonder if soak and official 5.1 will have same bootloader version.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
I edited my post after I posted it to say this:

But I still would not take the 5.1 OTA after doing that unless the Motorola instructions for the 5.1 soak test tells you that to get to the official 5.1 firmware after participating in the soak you should downgrade to 5.0 then take the 5.1 OTA.

So if Motorola says it is OK for soak testers to go back to 5.0 then take the 5.1 OTA it should have checks in it that will prevent bricking. I just don't know what the official instructions are for the soak testers.
[X 2014 General] matt1515:
Ok well hopefully someone participating in soak will see this and chime in on official instructions. I would think unless there's an ota for them the only other option would be downgrade. That would probably be great news as they would MOST likely have this issue resolved with future ota's. Thanks again for all the info.
[X 2014 General] TrippleT:
60.0C...i did it with a full untouched stock rom...i flashed "all" files from the package with mfastboot without an error message...don't know why it works...
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
I am not sure what bootloader version 60.0C is but presumably it is 4.4.4. If you are on the 4.4.4 bootloader then you never upgraded to the 5.0 bootloader.
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
I have a Pure Edition (XT1095) that shipped with 5.0;

I downgraded to 4.4.4 using the 21.21.42 package provided by Motorola;

I only flashed the boot & system images using mfastbootV2.

ROM booted & ran just fine, but TWRP 2.8.6.0 lost the ability to write to the internal storage (errno=13).

Yes, I re-flashed 2.8.6.0, as well as versions 2.8.0.0-2.8.5.0 as well as CWM, to no avail.

I also triple-checked all permissions and symlinks.

Custom recovery functionality did not come back until I flashed both the KXE partition table & motoboot.

It didn't downgrade my bootloader as I'm still on 0x611.

Take that as you will, but I would advise against recommending that people flout Motorola's official instructions for downgrading.
[X 2014 General] adm1jtg:
twrp issue can be resolved by loading 2850 and from terminal in twrp issuing the following command

setenforce 0

error 13 is resolved then
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
I already had SElinux in permissive mode.
[X 2014 General] adm1jtg:
the twrp kernel has to be forced into permissive mode then the error 13 issue stops I just did this last night
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Motorola's official instructions are that you cannot downgrade.
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
I do see that you are correct in that Motorola states you cannot downgrade on the 5.0 release notes for Carrier branded Moto X's:, but that note is absent from the PE release notes.

https://motorola-global-portal.cust...rod_answer_detail/a_id/102640/p/30,6720,9197l

It doesn't help that the fact is you can indeed downgrade after 5.0, at least on the xt1095.

Hell, I don't trust anything on Motorola's website anyways, it still says all Moto X devices are built & ship from the USA and I even had 4 different reps confirm that my Moto X 2014 PE would ship from the USA and yet it shipped from Shenzhen, China. (Keep in mind I ordered my phone 1.5 weeks ago)
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Only the system, kernel/ramdisk, modems/baseband, recovery. Not the bootloader. And since you can't downgrade the bootloader, you should not attempt to downgrade the partition table b/c that would cause a bootloader/partition table version mismatch.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Did any of the customized MX14's ship from the USA?
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
That doesn't mean that Motorola sanctions downgrading the PE.
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
I have no clue, after I saw the FedEx tracking showing it was coming from China I asked another rep and they yet again confirmed that the customized Moto X 2014 PE would ship from the USA, I even mentioned the closing of the Fort Worth, TX facility.

After I expressed my frustration they paused for about 7 minutes and then came back and said that all 2nd Gen Moto X's ship from China and only 1st Gens ship from the US.

I love Moto devices and have had the original Atrix, Atrix 2, Droid Bionic, Atrix HD, Nexus 6 & Moto X, but my situation demonstrated a complete lack of basic coordination on their part and an extreme disconnect of information filtering down to their support reps.

Rant over. Lmao

Edit: They escalated the issue to management with my request to remove the misleading information from the website.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
The support reps in the US are good, but they are not the front line reps. The front line reps are based outside the US and are clueless.
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
This goes back to Motorola's crappy wording on their website;

It says "Note: You cannot downgrade your "software" after updating"
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
Last note: Here's the winning shipping description.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
The bootloader (motoboot.img) is software.
[X 2014 General] revengineer:
How do you do that?
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
[MENTION=2781850]adm1jtg[/MENTION] provided the command
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
Okay, I think you're missing my point.

I don't disagree with the topic of your thread; downgrading the bootloader is pointless and dangerous.

My point is the fact that Motorola has the factory images, including the bootloader & partition table, with flashing instructions on returning to stock is misleading and confusing to some users, as shown earlier in this thread.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
I totally agree - which is the whole reason I started this thread!!

I have a feeling there are going to be a ton of "Help I Bricked My Phone!" threads when the 5.1 OTA comes out. I am trying to prevent that. If you read the Q&A section and try to help people like I do, you would see that the vast majority of them brick either downgrading or taking an OTA after upgrading then downgrading again. Some brick simply trying to unlock, which of course should not happen but it does.

Anyone who took a 5.1 soak OTA absolutely should never downgrade and then take another OTA. Those who took the 5.1 soak, then downgraded to 4.4.4, then took the 5.0 OTA hard bricked. It is possible you could take the 5.1 OTA soak then downgrade to 5.0 then retake the official 5.1 OTA, idk, but for sure I wouldn't risk it. I would use MDM to upgrade or wait for the firmware to be released and flash it myself.
[X 2014 General] revengineer:
Amazing, this works. I have searched for a solution for months!

It seems that I have to reissue the command every time I start twrp. Is there a way to make this stick?
[X 2014 General] adm1jtg:
I cant take the credit I was/am working with dees_troy the main dev on twrp. As far as making it stick I am working with dees and crew to make a version that defaults to permissive so we wont have to do this manually. It will likely be a modded 2850 version as 2860 seems to break OTG backups which are critical to me. Also have them working on a 2860 with working otg but that is much more complicated so will take longer
[X 2014 General] revengineer:
Thanks for the info. Glad you are working this. Tried to contact the developer a while ago and did not have any luck getting a response.
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
I'm using 2860 and otg backups are working fine, I don't have to execute any commands, etc.
[X 2014 General] adm1jtg:
It seems the issues are specific to people running kitkat software but with a lollipop bootloader (60.11)

And for me otg didn't work even on pure stock 5.0
[X 2014 General] adm1jtg:
Re-download twrp 2850. Dees_Troy and I tested a "fixed" build just now and he is replacing the original 2850 with the new "fixed" version. Try re-downloading later today sometime. To make sure you have the new "fixed" build when in twrp go to advanced and terminal and issue the following command:

getenforce

it should return permissive if you are running the "fixed" version if you get enforcing that's the original build.
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
I recreated my scenario;

When I received my xt1095 it shipped with 5.0, and I unlocked, flash TWRP 2860 & rooted...otg backups worked fine.

The problems occurred when I downgraded to 4.4.4 using Motorola's provided KXE package, flashing only the boot, system & baseband images.

To resolve the problem, flash the KXE stock recovery image with fastboot, reboot the bootloader and flash TWRP 2860 again.

After that you should have no problems with otg backups whether on Kitkat or Lollipop.

https://dl.twrp.me/victara/

EDIT: Of course, this is assuming you have an XT1095 Pure Edition, I can't speak for other models.
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
Maybe you should start a separate thread about TWRP issues since this thread is really about downgrading your bootloader/partition table. I am sure others would like to know about the fix.
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
Good call, my apologies I didn't mean to clutter your thread.
[X 2014 General] adm1jtg:
Not sure if this solves the error 13 or not but I can confirm using your process exactly OTG is still broken on 2860 and still works in 2850 so separate issue I would guess but since I need OTG for my backups and restores I will keep using the modded 2850 for now. Can you confirm on your setup if OTG works or not from within twrp. On mine the drive light doesn't even come on, I cannot mount it it just vibrates and I cannot backup to it. All the correct options are there but it cant access the drive at all..
[X 2014 General] defcondev:
[MENTION=2781850]adm1jtg[/MENTION] I have started a new thread for TWRP issues;

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3115417
[X 2014 General] JulesJam:
What exactly is your question?
[X 2014 General] wolfu11:
You have multiple threads for the same thing I'll write in the other one you just started.