yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S6 General] trenzterra:
I did try the lens cap test on a Sony in store at the same iso speed and it was almost completely black.

Theres a whole other thread on this on this forum about the issue and it seems rather consistent that this is the fault with the Samsung sensor. Yes, lens cap tests have little bearing on real life shots in most scenarios, but in this case at high ISOs it seems the camera cannot capture fully black shadows. I challenge you to prove me otherwise at ISO speeds at 800 and above.

---------- Post added at 04:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:38 AM ----------

See here: http://xdaforums.com/galaxy-s6/general/galaxy-s6-camera-pink-tint-purple-flare-t3109199

Initially I didn't think I had any problem with any of the low light shots except that it was slightly orangey as compared to the true blacks on Sony. Like you, I shrugged it off as a wb issue, but after reading the thread I feel it is less of a wb issue and more of another phenomenon .

I'm thinking more of inherent noise that is amplified at higher ISOs.

Anyway, at lower ISOs it seems that the isocell captures more light in low light scenarios, but at around iso 800 it seems the Sony is slightly brighter at the same shot.
[Galaxy S6 General] xmfpdlemalnz@hotmail.com:
See the difference between iPhone 6 and S6. IPhone is on the right.

Both on auto mode.

You telling me that for s6 I have to manually set iso and stuff, every time I take a shot in a dark scene??

S6, especially isocell, clearly boosts iso to the point the photo becomes too noisy and pink. Isocell does result in more pink photos then sony sensor in a night scene. Yes, you can adjust iso to minimise this effect.

However, I wanted a phone which I can just take out of my pocket and snap a photo at night time without worrying about any pink overcast.
[Galaxy S6 General] trenzterra:
I disagree. Even when there is a light source, darker regions get the pink noise. Perhaps it's not that visible in an office situation, but it's pretty glaring on the street, where the street lights are often unable to light up the whole scene. There are bound to be shadow areas that appear pinkish instead of black.

Even if the Samsung is able to extract more detail of a low-light situation, with a cursory glance the photo may seem inferior to the Sony because the pink tint robs the dynamic range and contrast of the photo. The shadow regions should appear black, not pink. If it's a physical limitation, then the Sony would exhibit this issue as well.

I have gotten ISO 1250 on a couple of occasions as well.

In any case, I'm not here to argue the merits and demerits of ISOCELL vs. Sony. I just hope for Samsung to bring the image quality of both to be on par with each other, be it with software or any other trickery. I don't know about you, but I think this issue is more glaring than any lens discrepancy which usually you'll have to pixel peep to identify the problem. Here the issue is still prominent even at smaller sizes.

By the way, I have found adjusting the colour balance to show less red and changing the tone curve helps somewhat. So hopefully Samsung can do the relevant adjustments for us. Post-processing on JPEG isn't ideal since you'll end up losing more data.

In addition, I feel any comparison with other phones is largely irrelevant in our case. I don't care if the S6 performs worse or better than the iPhone 6 since I know that from the reviews, but the S6 I get should perform almost the same as the S6 another person gets.

Anyway, some sample shots in normal, non-lens cap shots displaying this amp glow or whatever you like to call it.
[Galaxy S6 General] trenzterra:
Ironically, not pixel peeping makes the problem worse, as can be seen below:

Now there's clearer amp glow at the top as well and the pink cast at the bottom right becomes an ugly smudge.

I guess we have to agree to disagree here. IMO daylight performance in modern cameraphone sensors are pretty much on par. Hell, the camera on my old S4 and my current S6, as well as a Mi 4i, and an old compact camera, all perform similarly in daylight. It's at the low-light where the better cameras start to shine and where I pay extra dollars for.

---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

That is true, but I pay extra dollars because the S6 is touted to perform better than any other phone in such situations. And apparently not.

I go to festivals and night markets where you encounter such scenarios from time to time. I bought the S6 in part so that I wouldn't need to bring my mirrorless camera around all the time. From many of the shots in reviews, they seemed decent enough to negate the need for a mirrorless camera sometimes. As it turns out, it's not gonna make the cut.
[Galaxy S6 General] bencfc:
i have the isocell sernsor and low light shots with camera fv-5 app does not have the pink issue even when the lens is covered
[Galaxy S6 General] xmfpdlemalnz@hotmail.com:
Tried fv5 and pink stl shows.
[Galaxy S6 General] bencfc:
Works for me here is an example.
[Galaxy S6 General] xmfpdlemalnz@hotmail.com:
Quite bad quality low light photo with too much noise and pink overcast.

I found my s5 takes better low light photos than s6. I hope samsung could fix this issue
[Galaxy S6 General] Jonathan-H:
Got the latest update today UK unlocked model and after installing camera fv-5 and thinking that had fixed the pink issue it is actually fixed on stock camera now too. No pink hue on photos in low light anymore on mine.

Anyone who ot still has it maybe has a bad camera hardware.
[Galaxy S6 General] trenzterra:
May I know what's the firmware version?
[Galaxy S6 General] xmfpdlemalnz@hotmail.com:
When was the firmware released?
[Galaxy S6 General] Timbukto:
Played around with it some more

And I agree it can be a problem because when you are previewing your shot there is not much of an issue, but when it captures the image, bam the tone control and color balance is way off, etc. This is actually the *opposite* of how the iPhone 6 Plus operates...in preview mode I can actually see noise and imperfections especially in the corners, but when I capture the image, bam its all gone. Another big part of the problem is that the manual controls on most free camera apps suck. For example its not easy for me to tell the camera...take a multiple exposure blended night shot. I can tell it to take a single exposure high ISO shot that turns out like crap, but not a multi-NR shot which often occurs in auto mode. And auto mode is really a roll of the dice on the S6 I have. I would agree at this point that this can be improved by better firmware, even though there are possible issues of imperfect sensor behavior at the highest sensitivities, it is also true that the sensor can be profiled for low light long exposure type images via dark frames, etc. And to be honest the issue is really the lousy auto-exposure and tone control for which the iPhone 6 Plus looks incredibly well tuned in comparison.

That said its still a fringe issue to me (not others that just want to use their smartphone camera for everything under the moon). I happen to use smartphone cams as essentially decent wide angle primes in decent light, and for that purpose it still works. But it is also true that multi-shot low-light NR images can be pretty impressive on even crappier sensors because they are tuned right...so it makes sense that Samsung should have spent more time on this...or it looks like its tuned for the Sony sensor better than the Samsung at the lowest light levels. At *low* ISOs for example in the russian site I still notice how the mud/dirt on the tire tread is plainly visible on the Samsung and is outright invisible on the Sony...so to me hardware wise the Samsung ISOCELL seems fully capable of providing better results, it just needs to have auto-exposure and tone curve control optimized for it.

Also do not trust AF in low light at all...I was playing with it and it got it wrong almost 2 out of 3 times. But again manual focus doesn't work in 'auto' modes either.

To be honest even though the iPhone 6 plus is showing so much greater and effective fine tuning of tone curve control and auto-exposure, during the *day* and outdoors the S6 ISOCELL does so damn much out of the 16MP sensor that it clearly beats even premium compacts where as the iPhone 6 Plus would not...
[Galaxy S6 General] Jonathan-H:
Mine is on G920FXXU1AOE3
[Galaxy S6 General] trenzterra:
Mine's on AOE4 but still has the tint. Oh well.
[Galaxy S6 General] Timbukto:
I'm on AOE2 and hope to get some improvements. IMO the sample tested on the Russian site may have had a post-fix sample and IMO xmfpdlemalnz and mine has a pre-fix sample. I think what you've shown has been rather minor as well and mirrors more like the Russian sample which IMO is not a big difference at all (at least not to me). I think all they are doing is tuning tone curves and sensitivity/exposure control to not be so out of whack.
[Galaxy S6 General] bencfc:
I got the update and it still looks pink but with camera fv-5 it's fine . here is an example of both
[Galaxy S6 General] trenzterra:
Can you retrieve the EXIF data from the FV5 image?

---------- Post added at 11:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------

The pictures I took were on the old firmware though. Didn't notice a difference.
[Galaxy S6 General] bencfc:
sorry guys but when i viewed the camera fv-5 images on a calibrated monitor they are pink down the left side :( they look black on my phone. i should of checked before posting
[Galaxy S6 General] xmfpdlemalnz@hotmail.com:
Rather than the shots covering the camera lens, would you be able to provide some night photo shots? Say your street shots at night time or something.

What firmware are you on at the moment?

---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ----------

So I guess, even with the latest firmware, the problem still exists..

Yes, when you are checking for the pink overcast, make sure you both check on your phone with the brightness turned to max or on a computer screen.

My old note 4 takes way better night shots than s6!

I see good colour contrast and deep black with no pink overcast on my note 4.

I might have to wait for note 5 to be honest..
[Galaxy S6 General] TheEndHK:
My S6(IMX240) doesn't has this problem, it is clearly your S6 camera is a defective unit.

---------- Post added at 07:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------

Actually, my S6 IMX240 does a fairly well job. I've been borrow my friend's Iphone6 to play with a day.

S6 camera software is still in development phase while Iphone6 been out for a long time, so it isn't a total fair comparison. I'm now on AOE4 firmware and found color and exposure a bit better but the focus indeed got worse than older builds like AOD3. On the other hand, Iphone6 is really good on focus and exposure so when in low light condition(especially super low light) it is much more easier to get a correct focused photo and will result in a more clear picture though it got only 8MP.

But if you are willing to take dozen of shots(though impossible for snapshot users) to try to get one with right focus, then S6 still beat out Iphone6 easy at low light. In my experiences, S6 focus is only in the level range of Iphone5s.
[Galaxy S6 General] bencfc:
The pink only appears after the image is saved so it could be software trying to brighten the image ? Idk
[Galaxy S6 General] Dunams:
So, is there any conclusion yet? is it simply a firmware issue, or are there actually two different camera sensors?

and if there are two different ones, is the quality really different? because from the comparison I've seen in this thread it's not conclusive, and as few have said before me, you can take 2 pictures with the same device (not sequentially), and the result can be rather different, even if it's the exact same phone with the exact same sensor.

I'm a bit confused.

On a side note, I own an international black 32gb "Made by samsung" (which means made in Vietnam from what I understand), Isocell sensor here.

:cowboy:
[Galaxy S6 General] DevonSloan:
a Samsung spokesperson has now confirmed that, “The Galaxy S6 and S6 Edge use camera sensors from several different vendors. Like all of the technology used in our products, they meet our strict global quality and performance standards.”
[Galaxy S6 General] Timbukto:
A few more thoughts

I learned today that the Samsung S6 does not have a true multiple exposure HDR mode and probably doesn't have a multiple exposure high NR mode either. What it seems to do is entirely based on tone curve manipulation with heavy heavy doses of NR. On the one hand the sensor hardware itself must be pretty damn decent to pull off a 'fake' HDR mode without multiple exposures. On the otherhand it doesn't matter how good your sensor is, by physics as long as the FPS is high, and stabilization is good, and subject and camera movement minimal in theory multiple exposures will *always* have greater SNR ratio. In fact multiple exposures is one of the few ways a smaller sensor can 'defeat' physics and get quality as good as much larger sensors and optics.

So a lot of the pink crud crappy tone curve issues are really just Samsung pushing the limits too hard out of a single exposure out of a tiny sensor...IMO the iPhone 6 approach of multiple exposure blending is better...ghosting be damned. This can easily explain why I see 'crud' in the Iphone 6 Plus liveview that upon capture is significantly cleaner, while the absolute reverse is true with my Samsung S6. The *best* situation is a strong sensor with high dynamic range in a single shot...but *also* good multi exposure blending modes. The reason is small sensors can shoot with global shutters at very high FPS so actually they are far more adept at doing multiple exposures than large full frame DSLRs, etc (i..e think how fast a Nikon 1 can shoot vs a Nikon D810, etc).

Knowing now that there is no true multiple exposure mode...IMO my personal remedy to this situation is to just take more control over my exposures as even the default app with a swipe lets you go into pro mode, do manual focus (the auto focus in low light sucks), and do manual ISO setting. Then I can take the image and do post processing with either built in mobile apps, or on PC if I so choose. RAW support will really open things up further and it is with RAW support that we really have a litmus test for the sensors. As is the tone curve control of the ISOCELL vs Sony is far too different...this is evident with even an ISO 200 shot where the Samsung has shadows pulled up a tremendous amount compared to the Sony.

IMO the iPhone 6 camera hardware could be better but has excellent multi exposure and image processing for jpeg output...but the Samsung S6 has better camera sensor but honestly their 'real-time' HDR is no better than dynamic lighting optimization of single shot modes in a Canon DSLR, etc...its really a 'hack' for real bracketed HDR modes. You want a camera that has absolutely excellent tone curve manipulation with a single exposure *and* can do a wonderful job with multiple exposure blending. This is the way to really get close to DSLR performance out of a smartphone for at least static scenes is via multiple exposure blending as you can get benefits to both DR and high ISO performance.

So right now the 16MP sensor IMO is better in good lighting conditions with moving subjects, but is going to lose the race in low light situations of static scenes.
[Galaxy S6 General] vincent2167:
You are right about the HDR algorithm used on Samsung's latest flaghships. I did some testing with a Note 4 and you can see the impact of noise reduction (knowing that most of the time it's not very obvious contrarily to my examples):

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=60821227&postcount=1101
[Galaxy S6 General] xmfpdlemalnz@hotmail.com:
Seriously, Samsung needs to fix this pink overcast in the low light conditions for ISOCELL sensors. So far none of sony sensor users have reported this problem so clearly they are OK.

How could samsung advertise s6 takes a better night shot photo than any other phones in the market when you actually have to

1. get your phone out of pocket

2. manually set iso

3. manually auto focus

4. carry out post-processing to get rid of the pink overcast

This is a joke.
[Galaxy S6 General] DevonSloan:
Where did Samsung advertise this? I haven't seen those ads.
[Galaxy S6 General] Dunams:
Thoughts?
[Galaxy S6 General] trenzterra:
That's pretty lame to be honest. I mean I could easily adjust the tone curves myself...

So I'm wondering... is the ISOCELL clearly worse at higher ISOs, or is the tone curve being manipulated wrongly?

---------- Post added at 02:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 AM ----------

I did some RGB tone curve adjustments on the Russian shot. Clearly the SNR of the Samsung is lower than the Sony over here (the same curve was used):

For the Sony, even if I were to bring out the shadows to the maximum, the amp glow/tint/noise/whatever only shows up at the corners, reminiscent of vignetting.

Whereas for the Samsung, bringing up the shadows just a little reveals lots of it.

P.S. I must add that the Samsung's image seems brighter. Maybe in the original image it was already tone curved in such a way that brought out the noise, so in JPEG post-processing the noise becomes more apparent. We'll need RAWs to make a better conclusion.

---------- Post added at 02:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 AM ----------

Another boosted shot (both boosted to same levels), at ISO 1,000. It would appear as though the ISO 1000 on the Samsung is higher than the ISO 1000 on the Sony

Sony:

Samsung:

For the fun of it, here are some other shots of Sony vs Samsung. Can you tell which is which?

After doing the tone curve 'analysis', it does appear that amp glow/noise appear on both sensors. But at the current JPEG settings they are more prevalent in the Samsung than the Sony. Perhaps the curve is being manipulated wrongly out of the box (since when I manipulated the tone curves they appear brighter than the Sony?)? Maybe ISO 1000 on a Sony is more like ISO 1250 on a Samsung? Or is the Samsung inherently more noisy?

We'll have to stay tuned to RAW to find out ;)

---------- Post added at 02:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:20 AM ----------

Lastly, I leave with you two ISO200 shots.

Sony:

Samsung:
[Galaxy S6 General] sdfsdfsfs:
Sony sensor, iso=200
[Galaxy S6 General] DevonSloan:
I want an accurate ISO1000. Granted there is a slight variance between cameras and meters, but it's slight and within a tight margin of error.

I'm going to need to test my Sony sensor against my Canons, which are all calibrated with my Sekonic L-758 to see how accurate it is.

Even at ISO200, it looks like the Samsung is shooting hotter than the Sony.
[Galaxy S6 General] trenzterra:
Sure, do let us know the results.
[Galaxy S6 General] TheEndHK:
I've seen none of smartphone does a satisfied job ever on HDR including Iphone6, all HDR on smartphone or compact camera is just like a hack. The problem is that HDR is talking about dynamic range but BSI CMOS on a tiny sensor got the worse dynamic range in the world and you'll never get a true HDR result much like DSLR.

By increasing the sensor size to 1/1.5" might help a bit but BSI still hurts(DSLR almost all using normal CMOS for dynamic range). Furthermore, a good lens usually will real impact on dynamic range and it's impossible to make a big lens on a phone.

What the Iphone smart here is they don't touch it too deep while Samsung and all other android companies are always pushing too hard to make a fake HDR look.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.almalence.hdr_plus

I only use HDR Camera+ since the Gingerbread age if I want a slightly better HDR photo.
[Galaxy S6 General] sebip01:
hello! i just wanted to check the camera version on my S6, and I find this:
[Galaxy S6 General] DeMi-GoD:
You have the Sony sensor.
[Galaxy S6 General] sebip01:
Are you sure, because I check the exif and I found this:
[Galaxy S6 General] Timbukto:
Yes there is only so much DR you can get with a tiny sensor...there are theoretical limits actually, etc. However the iPhone 6 shoots multiple exposures for HDR...it is possible to get *MORE* DR via multiple exposures regardless of sensor size just like you can get more dynamic range with multiple exposures even on a Nikon D810. If *anything* because small sensors are so DR limited, multiple exposures should be the way to go because it is one trump card they have in their sleeves along with fast FPS and global shutter!

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/image-averaging-noise.htm

http://www.sansmirror.com/articles/technique/reducing-noise-the-mean-way.html

This is one way via intelligent algorithms and image processing, faster FPS and readouts and global shutters, etc that small sensors can produce really stunning results and SNR of much larger sensors!

Granted the iPhone 6 is not *there* yet, its just touching the tip of the iceberg in utilizing multiple exposures. Other cool things you can do with multiple exposures and computer vision, etc. Stick the phone on a tripod or stable support, have it shoot multiple exposures of an incredibly crowded tourist scene with people walking about. Over time it should be possible to map out all subject movement and produce a scene with *no* people there...or selective choice of people.

Smartphone cameras are good, but honestly the sky is the limit on what we can achieve with multiple exposures.

In any case even though the 16MP camera sensor can be cutting edge on the S6, not doing multiple exposures is a handicap not an advantage for HDR.
[Galaxy S6 General] TheEndHK:
The HDR Camera+ app doing multi-exposures and de-ghosting. Try it out.
[Galaxy S6 General] ZaKaTRoN:
I don't think Samsung lauch a fix for pink dot. It was present since years...
[Galaxy S6 General] Dunams:
That's the Isocell sensor not the Sony one.
[Galaxy S6 General] DevonSloan:
36 pages into this thread and I thought I was going crazy reading the "Sony" response. The very first post of this thread clearly states/displays that "S5K2P2" is the ISOCELL.

:eek:
[Galaxy S6 General] Miracal:
Love ISOCELL.
[Galaxy S6 General] soapBro:
Israel, 32gb white, ISOCELL here, not sure how to feel about this, takes great pictures but i as soon as i got it i had a feeling something is just not the same as all the sample pictures reviewers have been uploading, i thought i was just imagining things..

:eek:
[Galaxy S6 General] Dunams:
I have a feeling most devices in Israel have the Isocell sensor, mine is, and a co-worker of mine has Isocell too, and now yours too.

I don't think there's a real difference between them, some say it one takes better pictures at night, some say it's the other way around, I don't know what to believe anymore, on some comparisons I've seen the quality is nearly the same, sometime Isocell is even better imo.
[Galaxy S6 General] omrij:
+1 for Israel&isocell

Doesn't really matter to me because both are great.
[Galaxy S6 General] midreestaj:
Guys, I can see pink tint in the dark here with my Sony sensor :eek: Please correct me if I am wrong

Check both the right and left extremes of the frame
[Galaxy S6 General] trenzterra:
Yep, it's there on the Sony as well (as proven from the contrasted photos), but it seems that the Samsung shows it more. Perhaps different tone curve, or different noise characteristics.
[Galaxy S6 General] xmfpdlemalnz@hotmail.com:
To be honest, I would this is acceptable. The photos are taken in an extremely dark scene, and it produced acceptable pink overcast in my opinion. With samsung sensors, this would have produced much more distinct pink overcast. I think your one is fine. Who would actually take photos in such dark scene anyway.

With Sony sensors, if you take photos at typical night scenes where there are at least multiple light sources, the photos would look fine.

The problem with Samsung sensors is that even at typical night scenes, the photos will have a pink overcast and a lot of noise at the same time unless you manually adjust ISO or use other app or something.