yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S6 General] itzik_man:
The key work is "performance standards" !

The ISOCELL is under par to the SONY sensor, and this was proven again and again in any picture samples (performance)!

Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't mention any advertising about the sensor type (See Samsung quote)!

I am sure Samsung is more then capable of defending their case without your help!
[Galaxy S6 General] theronlas:
Precisely, they have a standard for performance, presumably the isocell sensor meets this standard, if in fact the sony is objectively better then one can infer that it exceeds the standard.

Without some idea what levels of performance meet the standard one cannot infer anything.
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
No offense but that is a very bold claim to make,

The Standard is Sony IMX_240, the phone was released with it, the phone was reviewed by all websites with it and the phone was originally sold with only it, period.

The isocell sensor appeared later with NO information from samsung informing their clients that the camera experience might differ from phone to phone because the phone might have X or Y camera sensor, the display units at the store are using Sony_IMX_240 and the costumer has the ability to see its specifications either by looking at the phone displayed at the store or by buying the phone itself and opening the case and only then finding out its true specifications. Since the display unit has different specifications from the bought phone you have every legal right to refuse that phone and ask your money back, because the phone was not equal to the one that was advertised.

On top of that the isocell is not a normal BSI sensor, so it differs greatly from the Sony Sensor, not only in name of the "vendor" but also the type of technology, the isocell was originally made for Samsung Galaxy S5 and it was a failed Samsung experiment which promised better color accuracy in all scenarios, be it low light or daylight, but infact it failed miserably producing washed out colors and even a yellow tint to all pictures and smudged details to anything in very low light (which is exactly what still happens in the galaxy s6), so in the end, it offered no benefit compared to a normal BSI sensor, instead it offered issues that did not exist before, i dont buy that Sony sensor stock issues talk 1 bit, they have tons of crappy isocell sensors and absolutely nothing to do with them, also manufacturing of isocell sensors is cheaper than manufacturing a regular bsi sensor, and MUCH cheaper than to buy directly from Sony, so its logical they just tried to sneak them in to make an even larger profit.
[Galaxy S6 General] ngocgiap94:
In dxomark, note 5 isocell 85.5 score, lower than s6 imx, . Photo in lowlight more pink/yellow, f-u-c-k >.< >.< samsung give me money now please !!!!!!!!
[Galaxy S6 General] supera3:
now with manual camera features , no difference with two sensors , you can adjust colors and no pink or yellow tint

all problems come with autoprocess of image , if you look hot colours , make down to kelvin and make this a bit cold

i try this yesterday and looks very nice
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
Thats not true, you cannot compensate any of the faults mentioned with software to reach the same quality output as the sony sensor because those issues are not software issues but limitations of the hardware technology of the isocell.

First, camera api 2 is broken for galaxy s6, hopefully samsung will fix it in the next update, because for now you do not have the ability to take full control of all manual settings like you should and the output jpeg image always comes blurry.

Secondly, lets say you take out the yellow tint of the picture, that will decolor the picture even worse resulting in an even worse color accuracy, same happens to the red tint in very low light at high iso.

The extra noise reduction needed to reach the exact same level of noise as the sony sensor will also further degrade the image quality, more noise reduction means less detail preserved.

So no matter how you try to disguise it by software it will never be the same as the sony sensor.

As any camera enthusiast know, post processing is always a trade off, never a benefit without consequences.
[Galaxy S6 General] jonymimoso:
On the beta ROM there is the full manual controls. Lets first wait for the oficial release. I do not know about your s6 but mine ISOCELL sensor is not that bad.
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
No isocell sensor is bad unless its broken, both are good sensors, but the quality of the sony sensor is a bit superior. Still, not an excuse for what samsung did there, camera enthusiats expect to buy the phone with the camera that is advertised, not a "good enough" version of said camera.

As for the full manual controls i hope thats true and all the camera api 2 bugs are fixed so i can finally take use of my bought software like "a better camera", "camera fv 5" and "pro shot" :)
[Galaxy S6 General] supera3:
no , these apps have minor possibilitis than stock , only arrive to 8 mp , no 16 mp on this beta

at the moment only camera stock have all features ( i think , on an update of these apps , we have all features working on )

sorry for my poor english
[Galaxy S6 General] jody2k:
How is the manual shutter speed doing from M 6.0 beta on isocell? Any improvements in comparisation to sony module?
[Galaxy S6 General] supera3:
quickly test of manual pro mode on isocell

no pink or yellow tint

20151228_004941 by juan carlos baixauli, en Flickr
[Galaxy S6 General] jody2k:
So what are your thoughts? Any feeling it improved compared to 5.1.1?
[Galaxy S6 General] Fusseldieb:
ISOCELL images on bright daylight on 5.1.1 ...
[Galaxy S6 General] Fusseldieb:
ISOCELL on very dark light condition (5.1.1)

(Oh, that image is supposed to be creepy)
[Galaxy S6 General] Fusseldieb:
ISOCELL on near inexistent source of light... 5.1.1

Sorry for the three posts, I am on my cellphone...
[Galaxy S6 General] yacbos:
the option is dimmed :( i tried and i cant click it :(
[Galaxy S6 General] jody2k:
Those are terrible yes congratulations so whats your point now? This is not even a answer to my question
[Galaxy S6 General] supera3:
now can shoot to 10 seconds or 1/24000 of aperture , iso 50 , move the kelvin balance , camera is more more complete than 5.1.1

and pics are very very more nice
[Galaxy S6 General] jonymimoso:
Any improve on the auto mode?
[Galaxy S6 General] Samed92:
I got an S6 edge plus today. Guess what sensor it has inside?

- Right, that ****ty ISOCELL! :crying:

I compared it with my imx240 on my s6 edge. I have to say, that the ISOCELL improved a little in comparison to the ISOCELL that was in my s6 edge before, but it's still nothing against my imx240.

I will go and change it tomorrow. I hope that I will get the imx240 this time. I don't pay 730€ for downgrading my Camera.
[Galaxy S6 General] supera3:
buy a reflex if you want more quality , imx and isicell are some some some , minimal details of difference to change it!!!!

I am two months waiting for this amazing pics of imx 240 and users never post it here , maybe because diference only is in your minds

i have two s6 with two sensors , imx240 and isocell and i cant see any big diference
[Galaxy S6 General] Samed92:
Didn't you've seen the comparisons in this threads? When you have got both of them just compare them, espacially in low light. You will see that the photos on the Isocell looks like drawed with wather colours, because of the aggressive noise reduction. I compared them today for about 1-2 hours and can tell you, that the difference is not just small.
[Galaxy S6 General] jody2k:
Im afraid your right i was shocked too when i saw comparison. I first believed there was no significant difference..thought it was placebo. but sadly its not. Compare it next too each other: sadly isocell is "washed out" blurry compared to imx in all low light and in most daylight conditions too. Feels like the isocell is a olddated module in a new phone
[Galaxy S6 General] galay user1986:
But noise reduction is made by the software or by the sensor itself? Maybe a future softwate update will make the isocell to loose less details? Or maybe is there a 3rd party software that you recomand that makes the isocell lose less details?i have the galaxy s6 edge plus and i was very happy with the image quality until i read this post... i also dont see much difference but as a person that is buying the top of the line premium phone this game by samsung with the sensors is not a smart move.

So is there a better camera app that will make the isocell to be more sharp and lose less details?
[Galaxy S6 General] S10e:
I am using Marshmallow 6.0 Beta and this feature has been removed, therefore I can't check which sensor I have. I tried an alternative method using the app AIDA64, and still it doesn't show me which sensor I have installed. Any other method that can be used on MM?
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
If you shoot in raw, but keep in mind that less noise reduction means more noisy picture than imx 240, i dont know why everyone thinks a software update can overcome phisical flaws, it can just mask them, its not magic.
[Galaxy S6 General] supera3:
noise reduction is software and yellow colors in autoprocess too

tomorrow if i can , post pics on raw processed with photoshop
[Galaxy S6 General] jonymimoso:
Yes please :D

Can as well take an long exposure with iso 50?
[Galaxy S6 General] jody2k:
I agree on both sides. Its partly software who masks the noise and gives blur but i think the imx is still a better camera. Software can improve things but i just think samsung used postprocess effects to mask isocell beeing inferior to the imx from sony
[Galaxy S6 General] kinghu:
Anything sinister in 6.0 not reporting the sensor any more?

I've had three S6 standard, one S6 edge, and two Note 5 variants. Whilst i didn't realise it at first due to having only ISOCELL, once i tried the IMX, it was notably improved in low light detail and a more realistic colour representation.

Personally, as someone who takes a lot of photos in differing environments, I much prefer IMX and kept the Note 5 and S6e that has IMX.
[Galaxy S6 General] jebiga:
My sensor:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=63895512&postcount=785

Picture:
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
Meh, i could tell from the start it was isocell because of the yellow tint to the grass.

Also not very good representation of the photos since they are resized, post full resolution photos at least.

Also, i can tell you didnt use above 400iso anyways.
[Galaxy S6 General] supera3:
but yellow tint is problem of post processing , not sensor
[Galaxy S6 General] jonymimoso:
Android 6.0 with full manual controls?
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
Yellow and Red Tint on the isocell is a hardware problem caused by the way the sensor is designed because isocell is not a regular bsi sensor, its an experiment that Samsung did to produce cheaper sensors which still could offer some benefits compared to regular bsi sensor, (like"better" color accuracy and less pixel color bleeding), i can say only 1 of those claims are true, namely the pixel bleeding.

The color accuracy beying way off and washed out did not allow the possibility for the post processing to save it from that flaw entirely and if you tone down the yellow and red tint down even more than the current state (be it by samsung software post processing or by yourself) the pictures will loose even more color contrast resulting in even bigger discrepancy from the sony sensor.
[Galaxy S6 General] whatnow275:
So I had to get a replacement from verizon (original was Sony) and it has the isocell :( noticeably worse. Can I use this as a reason to get another replacement or do I have to make something up?
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
You can tell them that the phone has different specs than the original phone you had nobody informed you of such changes, so you have every right to refuse it if you dont want to since the camera experience differs from your previous phone (and not in a good way).
[Galaxy S6 General] whatnow275:
Refuse meaning keep the original or meaning take new one in and demand a different one?
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
What i meant to say is, if the camera quality of the isocell bothers you that much you have every legal right to return it back and demand for a sony sensor version, just keep in mind 1 thing though, Its impossible to know which is Sony and which is Isocell just by looking at the box as theres no reference and not even barcode that can distinguish 1 from another, so you have only 3 realistic options:

1) Keep this phone and forget about the sony sensor beying slightly superior (an option that sucks big time).

2) Replace it and demand a Sony sensor version, (The guys will just give you another galaxy s6 and there might be a chance that the sensor of the new phone is still isocell as there are more isocell galaxy s6 phones than sony galaxy s6 phones these days) and if you still get an isocell you can make a fuss about it altough its going to get very hard to convince them to void yet another phone casing seal

3) Just replace with another brand as the phone is out of the specifications of your old one, if you still want a powerfull phone and great for photography i recommend Xperia Z5 as its camera has bigger resolution (21mp in 16:9 mode instead of 16mp of galaxy s6) a very wide lens and better color fidelity but so far no RAW support and no manual control of the iso settings outside of its official camera application so make sure you check the reviews first, its a different type of camera with different software post processing and the pictures will vary depending of your photography knowledge and skills.
[Galaxy S6 General] ngocgiap94:
f-u-c-k f-u-c-k samsung, >.< >.< >.< >.< 600 dollar >.<
[Galaxy S6 General] jonymimoso:
Xperia Z5 for photography?! HAhahahaHA! Is an downgrade. Try to take shots on low light and only will be digital noise, much worse than mine S6 ISOCELL. Want an nice smartphone that can take nice pics? Go for LG G4. That camera and excelent full manual mode is top!
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
As ive said, Sony Xperia Z5 has an excelent camera sensor, finegrain noise is preserved intentionally to not blurr the image, if you know how to setup the phone camera you can take excelent pictures: http://cdn.top4top.co/p_559vjjx2.jpg

If you dont know how to take proper photos and just complain like most newbs do then youll end up with bad pictures: http://cdn.top4top.co/p_559v06d3.jpg

Its not the camera that sucks for photography, its the user.

LG G4 has an outdated chipset with an overkill resolution so its not good for gaming, even if its camera is excelent having boring specs made me consider galaxy s6 and xperia z5 instead.

Now lets get back on topic please, the isocell vs sony_imx_240 sensor for galaxy s6.
[Galaxy S6 General] jonymimoso:
Sony always has the best on papper. I already tested the Z3,Z3c and Z5c. Yes it have top specs but the horrible post processing turns the pictures too bad. If you read the reviews will confirm that the pictures taken by the smartphone is nothing..

Mine S6 ISOCELL takes pictures much better than the Z5, besides the "manual" controls of the Z5 is an joke. You cant choose the ISO on full resolution, must reduce the resolution and after change the ISO. HAHAHAHA!

Besides the S810 have throttling, the performance is not top notch.

Yes the G4 no dot have an powerfull SoC but the camera is excelent. The best
[Galaxy S6 General] jebiga:
No, 5.1.1.
[Galaxy S6 General] whatnow275:
Thanks for clarifying. Do we have a clear answer on if note 5/S6E+ use strictly IMX? Do you really think I could get verizon to switch me to a different phone?

The Exynos is the only chipset out right now that I'd be okay with running a QHD screen on
[Galaxy S6 General] tiborprogmed:
"made me consider galaxy s6 and xperia z5 instead." :

i have asked Sony about RAW and shutter speed contol. because Galaxy s6 with 6.0 got these features finally. I have tested, working like a charm. Sony's answare regarding RAW support, shutter speed feature is next.

"

Thank you for contacting Sony Xperia™ Online Support.

In regards to your inquiry, Android 5.0 supports the new camera features via android.hardware.camera2, and Google defines three modes for the new camera features:

Legacy mode (no support RAW capture)

Limited mode (optional capability for RAW capture)

Full mode (optional capability for RAW capture)

Currently, Xperia supports Legacy mode in our Lollipop update which incorporate features and functionality in addition to our already renowned camera experience. As always, we're monitoring our customer expectations and regarding supporting taking pictures in RAW format, we will consider this for the future updates if there is a popular demand. We apologize for any issues this may cause.

"
[Galaxy S6 General] CrashTestDroid:
Mixed news: I have a new IMX240 and it's great! Unfortunately I had to accept a S6 Edge to get the better sensor. Photos are a huge improvement over the S6 flat with ISOCELL, enough that it's worth putting up with the stupid curved screen for it.
[Galaxy S6 General] whatnow275:
How did you get it? What diff. Do you notice? Now that I've done more comparison they look very similar
[Galaxy S6 General] S10e:
Isocell (confirm yourself, correct me if I'm wrong http://i.imgur.com/XfrJtaX.png) Android 6.0 SM-G920F

http://i.imgur.com/awi2k9t.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/AmObc1F.jpg
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
Yes, isocell
[Galaxy S6 General] spike.trickster:
How do you'll get the smart stay icon. Ive never got it ever.
[Galaxy S6 General] vagelis74:
Marshmallow beta tester[emoji6]

Στάλθηκε από το SM-G920F μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
[Galaxy S6 General] supera3:
can somebody with sony imx 240 sensor upload some RAW pics to see these pics edited with lightroom?¿
[Galaxy S6 General] mxl180:
I had s6 w/ sony sensor (32gb) but ois was noisy. So I upgraded to 64gb with samsung sensor. The difference is noticeable. I took shots side by side indoors, the iso/shutter speed was same, Sony had more detail, Samsung was warmer and more noise (in a unappealing way).
[Galaxy S6 General] supera3:
can you upload these pics? comparing isocell vs imx ?
[Galaxy S6 General] galay user1986:
So i was making some photos of my xmas tree with my s6 edge PLUS that has the icosell.

the image size in pro mode no hdr was 9-12MB!!!!!.

the image quality and details were amazing and i am really happy with my isocell results... but as all of you i have the I COULD HAVE BETTER RESAULTS WITH SONY SENSOR FFEELING.

i think that on the s6 edge PLUS the difference is MINIMAL.

Does any1 have a comperrison of both sensor made on the edge PLUS? i didint find this comperrison and truly believe that on this model there is no visible difference in details and file size and color capture.... can any1 find comperrison qnd confiem?
[Galaxy S6 General] supera3:
i think all is placebo , becasue in raw this diffrence dont exist

is in post processing when have minimal difference of colours and sharpness

mi idea is , people with imx 240 upload pics in raw and then people with isocell process this pics and look if we have big or not differences

i think pics are some or minimal minimal difference , i taste two sensors and the problems is an agressive post processing of samsung software
[Galaxy S6 General] jody2k:
Maybe not sure...but i must say if you know right settings this isocell gives pretty darn good results in low light. I use open camera with iso 400 and daylight whitebalance. Pretty neat though
[Galaxy S6 General] whatnow275:
Went to verizon to complain and they replaced it no questions asked. Didn't even look at the phone just got a new one shipped. First time I've had great CS from them in a long time!
[Galaxy S6 General] Bart3n:
Have the same phone and Android version but different software for the camera?
[Galaxy S6 General] dghostpt:
Isocell

Enviado do meu SM-G920F através de Tapatalk
[Galaxy S6 General] kinghu:
Seems easy to spot isocell due to the amount of yellow in pictures. Grass is an obvious giveaway.

I've a Note 5 and S6 edge both with IMX. I want to change the S6 edge to the standard S6 but always seem to end up with isocell which i don't want to go back to.
[Galaxy S6 General] coki.k:
How you know in SW that you have Isocell or imx???
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
Call this number: *#34971539#

Then see the sensor version by clicking phone/cam fw ver check.

If Cam FW Ver On Rear Cam is something like A16LSI... then its sony if its A16LLI... then its isocell.

I really dislike the colors of the isocell sensor, but some people might not notice the difference as much as i and some users do.
[Galaxy S6 General] coki.k:
Thank you man ?
[Galaxy S6 General] supera3:
This thread no have reason, pics are some some and people not post imx240 pics , only words
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
I hope youre joking.... there are tons of comparisons in this thread, including 2 side by side comparisons made by reviewers and 1 of them beying very detailed, on top of that theres some side by side isocell vs sony photos posted by users like me.
[Galaxy S6 General] supera3:
This comparisson were in may and pics are some

When i see real differences no have problem yo say it, but at the moment these comparisson no have bug difference

In spain , france etc people are very happy with isocell , more than sony because difference arw minimal
[Galaxy S6 General] allex1:
Posted some photos myself 8 pages back and nobody could see the difference. Really insignificant differences in my opinion after seeing full resolution photos on a computer screen. On a phone screen 99.9 % of users won't see any difference at all.
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
So people are "more happy" with isocell than sony because the isocell is slightly worse than sony? makes sense.

The differences are there, they are small but they are there, the same argument i could use for Xperia Z1 vs Xperia Z5, the difference is small so by that logic, it is ok if Sony would sell a Xperia Z5 with the camera sensor of Xperia Z1 because differences are small...

Sigh...
[Galaxy S6 General] spensa:
Which is good sony or isocell.
[Galaxy S6 General] Rengor:
Lg G4 :)
[Galaxy S6 General] TheWarKeeper:
Both are good but sony is better.
[Galaxy S6 General] supera3:
Placebo is better, enjoy the camera , sony or isocell
[Galaxy S6 General] Samed92:
It's the same Sensor but I can confirm, that the firmware is a different one. On the S6 and S6 edge you have Firmware (A16LL.... for ISOCELL or A16LS... for Sony) on the S6 edge Plus you have ( B16LL... for ISOCELL or B16LS for Sony).

I had an ISOCELL sensor in my S6 edge. Because the quality wasn't good I changed it to an Sony sensor. It took really amazing photos with much details.

Then I bought the S6 edge Plus and got this ***** ISOCELL Sensor. It was about 20% worse than the Sony Sensor in my S6 edge, espacially in low-light conditions. When you looked at the both cameras the lens on the sony was darker, the ISOCELL was red.

I went back to the shop and changed it with another S6 edge Plus with the hope to get one with Sony sensor. Sadly I got another ISOCELL Sensor. But this time the colour of the lens was darker, just like Sony.

The image quality was much better then the one on my first s6 edge plus.

ISOCELL takes much warmer photos in darkness. Thanks to the Pro-Mode you can reach better results than the Sony Sensor in low-light conditions, but in Auto mode Sony is the clear winner.

I bet the Sony Sensor on the s6 edge plus is also better than on the s6 edge.

There are quality differences between the ISOCELL sensors. Some are good and some are really bad.

All in all Sony Sensor is still superior to the ISOCELL Sensor. In a few conditions ISOCELL is the winner, but only in a few...

Nevertheless, I like my new ISOCELL Sensor so far, but I think I will go to an Samsung verified repair center in a few months and let them change the Sensor.
[Galaxy S6 General] jody2k:
Thats really interesting i was thinking the same because my results in low light are stunning. I got confused when i saw the comparison between iso and sony couple of pages back. But then i realize there is maybe a quality difference between the same ISOCELL sensors.