yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jcase:
It took 24hours once the device was in hand, that doesn't mean we didnt buy other ARM64 devices over the last year, nor that we haven't spent months learning the architecture, nor changes in Android 5.x, nor writing new tools.

We don't force a charge, nor do we hold a monopoly on the subject, yet we are the only ones facing personal attacks for it.

Knowledge does not come to us for free, we invest heavily into gaining that knowledge. I do find it ironic that you are lecturing me on this, considering I have open sourced more Android exploits than any other person, and that I've posted my training material (from a $3500 per person session) for free online. Why should I have to pay for all these things, but you shouldn't? This kind of attitude and attack makes me regret contributing as much as I have, and still do.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] rpmccormick:
Please don't regret, I am trying to have a discussion, not attack you. I have great respect for you.

EDIT: Great point on root apps and permissions. I am a sheep like the rest of them, I take risks and I even paid you against my own morals, but honestly the entire community needs to change their way of thinking... no one should ever run any root app that is not open source.

PS: I have open-sourced much in my life as well, but I am sure not half as much, as good, or as important as you have. I truly do not mean to disrespect you, just change the way the community thinks about ALL non-OS things.

PPS: It is mfgs/big4 that are immoral by not giving us all the option to S-Off, to carrier unlock, to flash a non-branded RUU, and to change the HBOOT logo. You are our greatest soldiers against their oppression. Keep up the good work, and make it easy for others to learn how to do the same. Thank you.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dbarrett480:
Jcase, don't listen to the haters. Everyone in the world thinks they are entitled to everything. If they can't afford it then they should either work harder so they can afford it or find their own way. I say congrats for coming up with a niche product and making some money on it. This world would be a better place if people spent less time complaining and more time working hard to make a better life for them and their families.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jshamlet:
I really wish people would knock it off with this mess. There are few phones left that can be made truly open, and it's only because of Sunshine that the HTC One M7/8/9 phones are on that list. What do people want? No phones that can be turned into developer phones?

Seriously guys, the next time you are thinking of whining about $25, consider that for many phones, there is no solution. Want to do anything more than root a Samsung Galaxy S6? Good luck with that.

Maybe we need to add a section with pricing for JTAG services or S-off SD-cards. I recall for a while there was a pool of people who went in to buy one of those factory service cards for well over $1000, and split the cost between them. I wonder what that worked out to per S-off.

At $25, Sunshine is a steal. Even if you get unlucky, and up shelling out $50, it's a good deal. If you are truly stupid, and shell out $75, you still at least have a developer phone.

I just hope jcase and beaups don't get tired of the crap and decide to go do something else with their time, as I have really enjoyed my M8 with S-off, and I would like to think they will still be around when the M10 comes out.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ashyx:
Wow, a while since I've posted in here and cannot believe the attitude of a so called dev on another dev.

It's deeply ungrateful and uncalled for to attack a handful of devs that, aside from the money, have obviously put a lot of time and effort into bringing such an exploit to the masses. Not just for this one thing, but also for gaining the knowledge to do it.

Anyone who declares he/she is a dev, should understand the time and effort that goes into these things.

I myself do understand as I have developed a few projects myself.

What's wrong with charging a perfectly reasonable sum? Do people complain to the networks when they have to pay for unlock codes?

What about paid apps on Google play, should they all be free?

No they shouldn't because at the end of the day it's up to the user if they want to pay or not. Nobody forces anyone's hand in their pocket.

So what if what has been recouped is so many times the cost? Does it matter if they made a dollar or a million? It just goes to show how many people desperately wanted it if that is the case.

The other alternative is nothing then there would be bountys flying about begging for someone to do it.

These guys took it upon themselves to provide a product, laid it on the table and said take it or leave it.

Don't get upset about it, don't moan about the cost, don't attack the provider of the product.

Quite simply sit back, think of the value it will bring to you, if you don't think its worth it, leave it alone and go and find an alternative solution.

Good day.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Seanie280672:
+1 on this

I dare anyone of these guys complaining, to go and try and create an s-off tool, see how many 1000's of dollars of phones you destory before you get it right and all of your time spent on it, then give it away for free ????? really, I wouldnt.

When I was using my M7, and firewater was still alive, it used to fail, no matter what combination of rom's and kernals I used, now this was before sunshine was created, I used a shop in the UK based in sheffield, thankfully, an area I visit on a regular basis, they s-off HTC phones by java card for a price of £15 GBP, funny enough thats $25 ish http://www.fonefunshop.co.uk/Unlocking/htc_s-off_service.htm

the day I got home with my new M8, about 2 months ago, I unlocked it, flashed a custom recovery, rooted it, this was all before its first ever boot, I then booted it for the first time and ran sunshine through it, the stock rom and stock firmware never stood a chance.

Stop your complaining or live with s-on.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] shad0wboss:
I understand but i believe they have made greater amounts of profit than just getting back the money for the phones they wasted. Not saying that it should be free but 25$ is a bit a lot for the ones living in the third world countries and the developers of sunshine overlooked that completely when deciding the cost.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Seanie280672:
ok I understand, so lets say they gave it away for free now, how do you think all the people that paid would react ? id be P*VIST, its a no win situation, and developoment on it is continuious with each new release of a new version of android. ie Lollipop, it took a couple of weeks for sunshine to work on the newer HBOOT 1.61, before that sunshine only supported upto HBOOT 1.57.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] shad0wboss:
THat's why I said it shouldn't be "free" but the price should be reduced. This tool shouldn't only be for the people from the west but for everyone around the world. The price has been unfairly defined for this product for everyone. And for the people who paid 25$, they did because they could, so it doesn't sound "unfair" to me.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jcase:
Cost was decided based on cost (money and time) of development, not income levels from the west or anywhere else. Being a third world country has nothing to do with the country's income either, look at Switzerland.

We feel if people can afford to buy $200-700 phones, then $25 isn't likely to break them either.

You also have to remember, this isnt a necessity, its functionally a luxury. Root, unlock, s-off etc is not required to use a phone.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Seanie280672:
I couldnt of said it better myself.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jshamlet:
What's your point? I don't really care if they are making so much profit they can afford to have blitzing parties every night of the week. (Although, based on the pile of expensive phones in jcase's picture, I doubt it) They did the hard work of bringing us Sunshine, why shouldn't they profit from it?

Also, I get that $25 is a lot of money, but that really isn't the point. You don't need S-off unless you want to mess with your phone. You don't need it to switch carriers (SIM unlocking handles that). You don't need it to use your phone. You don't even need it to run alternate ROMs. It's a luxury for people who want more control, or need a developer device.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] rpmccormick:
You guys are missing my point entirely. It is not about the money at any price, it is about the fact that the exploit technique should be documented and shared, not kept secret.

As JCase said himself it is trivial for any root application to collect any of your information and do bad things with it. I already paid the $25, it's not at all about that. I want to know what the app does. People that want to S-Off should understand the value of security and the fact they they are putting a ton of trust in "hackers" that will not share their methods with the phone-hacking scene at large.

I have great respect for them and what they do, and I truly hope they make enough money to continue doing what they do (without having to work a sh*tty job, or in addition to their awesome job). I also truly believe that those that want to look at what they did and learn to do it for themselves deserve that god-given-right, and that all XDA devs should provide help to do that, not keep secrets for personal profit.

EDIT: As I said before, we are in for dark times ahead if the community at large keeps installing ANY root app that is not open-source and verified by peers.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jcase:
Releasing such details would a) get it blocked far faster, and b) result in a negative investment.

I dont see you, or anyone else disclosing/open sourcing more root exploits than I. When you do. Feel free to come ask me about the ones I dont care to open source.

For each one you invest money and time into, then publicly disclose I'll offer to do two. I'll start first later this week with two mediatek ones.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jcase:
You have to trust the developer, open source or not. Someone skilled enough, could easily hide something nasty in an open source project. I could without a doubt.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ashyx:
Totally agree with that. I'd be pretty sure HTC are already on the case.

Just on a side note, what do you actually do with all the bricked devices, surely they don't get binned?

I mean wouldn't it make sense to just play dumb with HTC and see if they'll repair them? If not for free then just pay for the repair and sell them on to recoup some of the outlay?
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jcase:
Well they are stores, I'm going to jtag a bunch next week, see what all will boot again.

No I dont send phones in for repair, unless I honestly didn't hack on them
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ashyx:
Of course forgot about jtag.

See there's another point, I'm guessing you do the jtaging yourselves? So there's the time spent stripping down devices and the jtag equipment to buy to add on top.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jcase:
Yes, maybe once a year or whenever time allows I sit down and do all I can, mostly for the fun.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] shad0wboss:
With unlocked bootloader, you cannot touch the kernel which is essential for any custom rom to shine. It's stupid by HTC that the unlocked bootloader doesn't allow kernel to be changed whereas Sony gives access to kernel through bootloader unlocking. Keeping this in mind, Sunshine becomes almost like a necessity after HTC releasing a retarded version of lollipop. My phone loses 1% almost every two minutes when on sleep. I have wiped and did factory reset but same result. Google services are hogging onto the battery and thanks to ART, the overall consumption of battery is messed up. SunShine is too expensive, full stop.

Apologies OP, for diverting the topic.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Mr Hofs:
Get your facts right mate, because its all wrong what you say !

Fastboot flash boot boot.img + flash the modules.zip in a custom recovery. And there you go......just flashed a new kernel on a s-on/bootloader unlocked HTC device.

How do you think i flashed the custom kernels on the htc one x as there is no true s-off tool for that one for the masses ?

Know what you talk about and flash custom kernels as you like. You are putting down a luxury tool that is not needed for that feature.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] shad0wboss:
I have asked this question about S-OFF twice now and have gotten no response for the past month, no joke. Thanks for the clarification. I'd just ask you this then what is the actual benefit of S-OFF over S-ON bootloader unlocked?
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jshamlet:
I think the biggest advantage to the way Sunshine does things is that S-off still works. You have to think that HTC would love to put an end to it for warranty reasons alone. The carriers are probably peeved that their customers can switch CID/MID and SIM unlock with a hacker tool, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are putting pressure on HTC to stop it.

Also, I have no doubt that charging $25 is a reaction to all those 'root bounties' that never got fulfilled. What was the going rate for a while? $10 actually donated per $10,000 pledged? At least this way jcase and beaups have a reliable source of income for actually buying phones.

---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

The biggest benefits are that S-off allows you to alter the CID/MID of the device, alter the bootloader lock state without forcing a factory reset, and flash both older and newer firmware without restriction. (You can "downgrade" to older firmware)
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Mr Hofs:
1: reset bootloader tampered flags

2: convert a device sense/gpe

3: debrand/debloat the device and fully convert it to a non carrier specific device (if you have a carrier specific device that is)

4: downgrade and upgrade firmwares as you like

5: flash cool splashscreens

6: flash Harman Kardon soundmods

Probably many more to name ......
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] shad0wboss:
So downgrading isn't possible without S-off and why do you need s-off for soundmods
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Mr Hofs:
Because the HK sound mod requires it.......
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] JellyKitkatLoli:
Personally I had to get S-Off to use my phone like an actual phone and to actually enjoy my brand new phone, I wasn't planning on a Verizon CDMA bull****, And the fact you can't even unlock the bootloader with HTCDev is ludicrous, I don't think anyone NEEDs S-off besides the Verizon people, I am quite thankful for Sunshine and the fact is, I would otherwise not enjoy custom ROMs and other awesome things I can do and it truly taught me a lot, and maybe I am somewhat thankful for having a verizon version, why? I planned to use OTAs only for my phone originally, And getting Verizon+Sunshine introduced me to quite a fun experience and enjoyment out of my device, discovering the ROMs I wouldn't discover otherwise was amazing and I am thankful for sunshine for this opportunity, I have paid the $25 Straight on, because I could and it was necessity for the most part.

However I do think that it should be $20 for "older" devices such as the m8, but I am only saying this due to the fact I would like to see less people complain about the price and so more people could get S-Off (There are truly countries where the folks can't afford this [And they might have also even gotten carrier versions due to them being cheaper over there, because reasons.] and they got the m8 by saving huge amounts of money or by other means).

Anyways I am not complaining and I am very satisfied, I just hate to see some people not able to get this due to bull****.

And once again [MENTION=2376614]jcase[/MENTION] thanks for everything, without you folks I would get rekt.

Oh and you need S-off so you could write on the partitions, H/K mod requires this so it could write the ADSP and other stuff without any troubles.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jayram1408:
Does anyone not know how to read?

25 is something if you don't have it, and I believe the question was does anyone know how to s-off for free not if you feel someone should have to pay for sunshine. Someone here is looking for help and not options, I am looking for the same answer and it bugs me when no one has the answer but everyone has a opinion. This is SUPPORT forum. Be SUPPORTIVE. If you don't have a answer, then don't reply. although similar questions are always good or individual experiences, but not everyone has the same opinion as everyone else and this is not a BLOG

---------- Post added at 01:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 PM ----------

Who said they bought it? Maybe it was a gift? And everyone is on the Sunshine cost analogy here? IS THERE ANOTHER OPTION IS THE QUESTION?
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xunholyx:
No. At this time there is no other option.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jcase:
Yes there is another option, learn to reverse engineer, analyze the bootloaders, learn how it all works, find a vulnerability, write an exploit for it.

Other options, buy a jtag device, learn to jtag, learn how s-off is set, wire your device to the jtag box, set s-off.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Mr Hofs:
But that will cost so much money AND time ?!?! :eek:
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jayram1408:
Glad to see your are so helpful. Its a true inspiration to the rest of us just how helpful that answer was. I bet when you ask some one for a recipe on how to prepare a food dish they do not give you some witty answer like that, no they probably HELP you.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xunholyx:
Really dude?

You might not know, but [MENTION=2376614]jcase[/MENTION] is one of the Sunshine devs.

The second option he gave is an option you can take if you want to pay for a Jtag. It's more expensive than Sunshine, but it is an option.

The first option he gave is the option that [MENTION=2376614]jcase[/MENTION] and [MENTION=711482]beaups[/MENTION] used to find the S-Off methods themselves.

So what he said is not sarcastic, it is the truth.

You have three choices now. Take your pick.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jcase:
I gave you two alternative options, hand fed them to you actually. A third would be to purchase a javacard.

I'm actually a fanatic about cooking, I love to see people eating food I have cooked. It warms my heart.

I typically dont ask for nor use recipes. I prefer to have something I can call my own.

I normally do research on the food, and what it and like food normally pairs well with. Then I experiment with small batchs. One I have it down, I then cook it as a meal.

Tonight I did chicken and ribs, smoked with peach wood.

Corn on the cob, with my own seasoning wrapped in bacon. Then smoker.

Some homemade rolls. In the oven.

And baked beans, smoked of course.

Wife was in charge of angelfood cake, she cheated and bought it, instead of made it from scratch, bummer.

http://i.imgur.com/IPsdkGD.jpg
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jayram1408:
This thread has gotten way out of hand

Some one got on XDA looking for some help and all they have gotten was opinions, smart butt remarks and told it can't be done.

After you unlock the bootloader, ROOT the phone, instal a custom ROM that supports S-on, the run Rumrunner and it will S-off for FREE.

Im glad i was able to help. Did exactly that on my HTC One (M8) Sprint Harman Kardon. Here is SEVERAL HTC one tools, drivers ect all in my google drive so you DO NOT HAVE TO HUNT THEM DOWN. Thank me if this helps. https://drive.google.com/folderview...oxbHdGbDJ6QnBXZnFqSFFxRE9qNFVMNzQ&usp=sharing
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jcase:
I gave him/you 3 alternative ways to do it (the only 3 alternatives available today), yet you didnt like them.

You are here spreading false info. One of us (Beaups) is also the author of RumRunner. You did NOT get s-off with rumrunner on your m8, as it was patched before m8 was ever released.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jayram1408:
PS, If your not here to help, why bother to leave a smart butt remark?
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] beaups:
Please stop asking the same silly question in 100 different ways. It's both obvious and ridiculous. And your failed attempts at adding wit to the situation are just that, failed.

If you don't want to buy sunshine, fine. Like others have said, you can find your own s-off exploit or go the hardware route with javacard or jtag.

If you expect jcase or I to just spell out our methods or exploits to you, it's just not gonna happen. Move along to something else already.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jayram1408:
Hers for you

Heres a great big thumbs down for that remark
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] beaups:
There's a thanks button for that.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Mr Hofs:
Install a rom that supports s-on ? All roms here for the M8 work on s-on devices ! Never been any different.....don't know what your resource is but i kindly suggest you stop spreading false info.

I think you are way in over your head and you should stop it here.

:)
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ashyx:
Gordon Bennett, this fella's like a dog with a bone. [MENTION=4561151]jayram1408[/MENTION]

In no way did I see jcase's remarks as smart. In fact I'm surprised he bothers responding at all considering how many times the same question comes up and the grief people like you keep giving him.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] :
I'm really thinking this thread has run its course. The extremely simple answer to the OP's question is no. There is no other reasonable way to s-off at the moment. Except what [MENTION=2376614]jcase[/MENTION] said about jtag and reverse engineering.

Not liking the answer you get, even though it's the correct answer, is no reason to get upset. A question was asked... Answered... The end.

Now it's just being repeated 100 different ways. :silly:

You don't need S-OFF to enjoy the device, so if you can't afford it, then live with what you got.

Not much else can be said.
[One (M8) Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Stephen:
Moderator information,

Thread has been closed. The question has been asked and has been answered. I am disappointed to see the thread get out of control.

Stephen