yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Topics] ivicask:
Thread says "Freedom of speech" And i gave my opinion, that's it, wheres the problem?

Also, what you wrote above is first reasonable and useful piece of text on this thread. I never changed my device so dont have such problems, but i can imagine some unlucky person may get 2-3 or more replacement phones under warranty, and they would need to pay 25 each time again, thats only bad thing i see about this.
[General Topics] jcase:
We don't have a monopoly, we just have a solution cheaper, safer, faster and easier to use solution than the others. As such, we tend to be the ones most people talk about or point to.
[General Topics] fernando sor:
I feel it is definitely worth it. Myself am amateur programmer I know how much work I've put in to projects. I've gotten some money back but the demand for what I did was no where near what these guys do.

I've had at least 3 or 4 phone's unlocked using their methods where I didn't have to pay anything.

The amount of people on xda who expect something for nothing is kind of astounding. It's 25 dollars to have full control of your phone.
[General Topics] jcase:
This is one of those things where the bad seeds ruin it for everyone. While our policy has always said 1 license for 1 device, we did for a long time replace them for anyone who asked, until we noticed most of our replacement licenses were being activated 100s or 1000s of miles from the original, often in other countries.

I mean come on, buy the license from a US ip address, request a replacement from a us ip address, but the replacement from Germany, on a different model/carrier device an hour later?

People abused my kindness to steal, giving or selling their friends the replacement licenses.

When your looking at a project that cost many thousands to develop, like SunShine, that really hurts.
[General Topics] BillTheCat:
There is no less greed in wanting a price to be low (or free) than there is in wanting for a price to be high.

Developers deserve to be rewarded for what they do. If some decide to charge for their work, so be it. Consider for a moment the work that goes into Xposed and Xprivacy. If you derive a benefit from it, you should be prepared to pay for it. We all can decide whether or not we choose to pay.

Unfortunately, too many of us have become accustomed to getting things for free. Developers who choose to benefit in return from the value they create for you ought not to be persecuted and publicly shamed because they don't wish to rely on the fickle and unreliable donations of users who are accustomed to getting something for nothing.
[General Topics] jcase:
I don't think you guys understand what freedom of speech is, nor what a monopoly is.

Freedom of speech is not apply to private facilities, nor is it "Freedom of consequences". More often than not, it is the freedom to whine.

Far as monopoly, we are not one. Many other companies exist that offer this service, at a much higher price. You are free to use them.
[General Topics] hamdir:
does badass attitude count? :laugh:

seriously now, about the paid software sub forum, sunshine topics are plastered all over the place and not exclusively in the paid sub forum

the problem is not really sunshine itself but the fact that is seems like XDA is advocating it
[General Topics] Clark Joseph Kent:
I see some RC's are busy....interesting thread.

Sent from my HTC One M8 using Forum Runner
[General Topics] hamdir:
thanks for being fair, you also neglected the paypal issue

personally my biggest issue with it is the per device clause

when you buy an app from the playstore is it limited to one device? NO the world would go crazy if it did ;)
[General Topics] broncogr:
Could you please let us know of a thread made by the sunshine devs advertising their software outside of the paid software section?

How exactly is XDA advocating something that doesn't go against XDA rules?
[General Topics] hamdir:
ok I will hunt some links for you but regarding the second point, by disallowing members to speak their mind about sunshine, i guess what the OP described
[General Topics] jcase:
No one has been disallowed nor prevented from speaking their mind, even in our own threads. You are referring to a particular person who you don't know the history on.

Speaking your mind, and creating multiple XDA accounts to troll with are two different things. He broke the rules, got warned about it, and continued to do so. He knew what was going to happen, yet chose to go that route.
[General Topics] hamdir:
ok thanks for clarifying that
[General Topics] jcase:
FYI, as I've said to others time and time again, We are willing to re-release SunShine for free if you want to shoulder all the financial costs yourself. Please let me know, I will get you wire instructions, and remove the licensing out of sunshine, and get it up for free ASAP. Shouldn't take more than a day or so to convert.

So far no one has taken me up on the offer, seems people don't like the idea of putting their own money up to fund such large projects. They seem quite happy for ask me to do it time and time again.
[General Topics] Behold_this:
Well luckily your opinion doesn't matter. The moderators and administrators of this site have decided that it is worthwhile to have a for profit / paid apps section on the forum! They (sunshine team, [MENTION=711482]beaups[/MENTION] & [MENTION=2376614]jcase[/MENTION]) are not in violation of this! They are right in line with the rules. You really are just coming off like a spoiled entitled child. If you want a great product, pay for that great product. Its that simple!
[General Topics] Woody:
Let's make sure to keep this civil. Freedom of Speech does not mean Freedom to Troll/Complain/Names.

Interesting talk going on, but all I see are opinions and no evidence of wrong-doing. If there is something that needs to be addressed, I would think that all the "Recognized" members in this thread to-date, would know how to properly report it.

If you (in general, not specific) think that we need to destroy the Paid Apps section because it goes against the spirit of XDA, then we would need to know why with the corresponding explicit

reasons, not opinions

.

I can see where you are coming from with Sunshine being synonymous with S-Off, but as [MENTION=2376614]jcase[/MENTION] has stated, they aren't the only game in town and you are free to use them or someone else. I know that is not the intent of the post, but that point of "freedom to purchase from somewhere else" does need to be driven home here. This is about your opinion that Sunshine goes against the ethos and not the price. We get it.
[General Topics] jcase:
This is spot on.

If at anypoint the rules to the paid forum change to disallow our thread, I'll gladly shut it down. The main purpose of the thread was not to garner traffic, but to avoid 1000 different threads from popping up, like when firewater didn't have an XDA thread. The moment the thread no longer exists, then everyone with a question or everytime we have a new release, someone will make a new thread. Giving commercial apps a place to maintain threads reduces garbage and repost threads greatly.
[General Topics] Clark Joseph Kent:
Gents, now you have the Judge's attention. Just short of closing this "OT" Freedom of Speech issue.........

First there is no Freedom of Speech on XDA. This is a Forum with Forum Rules, a Membership. That you signed up for and agreed upon. And the Statused Members have Codes of Conduct and policies.

Now any RC/RT that knows me and you all should by now....That my inbox is always available, if you have questions and concerns, with limited "freedom of speech". And you even a have a private chat forum for your "chats" as a Status Member.

What I see here is more Members just not wanting to "pay" for some service/product. Do you not pay for apps via the GPlay Store? Do you not donate to your Developer, for the ROM or Theme you run as a daily driver? Do you not donate to XDA? Well that is up to the Individual Member, as always. XDA provides so much education/knowledge for FREE.

I myself, am not smart enough to do what the RD/RC/RT's and other do in the way of development. So I have no issues in providing a payment/donation to them...for more, secure and better development. In the meantime, I try my own skills in the way of my own development, in trying to learn.

Again for Off Topic/Freedom of speech type "discussions" well there are those social media sites, where you can voice your Freedom of Speech.

And any RC's that have the time and effort for this type of Thread, well if you need something to do, in the way of actually providing to XDA, send me a PM.

I have a Forum that is well established, that can use RC's that need to provide and have the time....and are willing to Contribute to XDA more!
[General Topics] KennyG123:
You are quite the hypocrite! You talk about freedom of speech but now you expect mods to censor anyone mentioning sunshine on the site.. Then make a lame excuse the members talking about it equals XDA promoting it. This thread is a very sad attempt to complain about paying for S-Off. Use your device S-on then! It still functions and is just a PITA to update.
[General Topics] herwegan:
of course you are going to close it since the "big ones" of XDA don't like it.

it's still my opinion that there should be a place where every member can discuss such things in public. if you think it's just childish whining, ok, i can live with that. that's your opinion. but i still think we should have the right to whine around here, even if it's about a topic of which many can't understand why it gets even mentioned. this is what makes different views. there is no wrong or right in this case. but , especially RC's/RD's/RT's etc, we should be allowed to say it if we don't like the way some things evolve here. in public.
[General Topics] hamdir:
i am not even hiding that i am complaining about paying for S-OFF per device,and that my country is not supported by paypal, specifics which i think should be discussed, i am pretty blunt about it

how does this make me a hypocrite? except the way you twisted and stretched the entire logic to paint it that way

sigh i give up, you reply is the very proof, that even talking in anyway against sunshine or even discussing details brings up so much animosity

i think this proves the whole purpose of this thread

anyway as [MENTION=4387744]Judge Joseph Dredd[/MENTION] said, i guess this belongs to the private chat forums, I am out
[General Topics] Clark Joseph Kent:
RC let me intro myself to you, hello I am JJD, just a Member like you, but allowed to be part of XDA. Like you I have my thoughts, but since this is not FB or G+, we dont go around "whinning" but then, why waste the time, when you can provide something useful to XDA.

But RC you are failing to understand. Your right to whine is for the Social Sites....not XDA. I will remind you of your CoC, shall I go further...

Too late, you closed the door...for private chat.

And both you could of sent a PM to discuss, this before opening this thread. But again too late, so now you get to whine, with your Freedom of Speech.
[General Topics] herwegan:
it does indeed. but no one seems to care.

if they would be 100% convinced of what they are doing/saying in this matter, they would not feel like defending it this desperately here. just look at how many fundamental members of XDA had the feeling that they would need to intervene here! it's obvious that the topic i brought up here needs to be addressed. but no one apart from me and neniick is brave enough to do it.
[General Topics] jcase:
Why are you guys ignoring my offer? I offered to re-release SunShine for free, all I asked was that you take the financial burden off our shoulders.

By ignoring my offer, it makes this whole thing seem like you just wanted something to complain about, or are greedy and want me to shoulder the costs of nice things for you.

Glad paypal isnt the only option then, but again if you read you would know that.
[General Topics] hamdir:
come one you are not even being remotely fair

alas alas, its was futile to begin with, you can really blame us when we have seen a member being slaughtered on our thread just because he said a word against sunshine, now it was explained that the he had history, great, but believe me i have been seeing this approach all over the HTC threads, dare a member ask why sunshine is so costly and boom a smart bomb lands on his head
[General Topics] herwegan:
you don't have to participate here Judge if you don't want to hear people whine. ;) this also goes to the others, no one forces you.

still i would like to hear other words about this and maybe learn about some other perspectives.
[General Topics] hamdir:
you are simply stating the following: our super costly job requires an investor, personally i can not afford that and wouldnt want to do that either plus i contribute to XDA that i usually consider a favor in return even

and you are ignoring my inquiry about the per device limitation
[General Topics] Clark Joseph Kent:
Again Wrong RC's. The only reason I have not shut you down on your "OT" thread is the Developers are speaking here, on your issues.

And since I try to provide to XDA, I do have to listen to your whines.....so carry on.
[General Topics] herwegan:
If you can't accept my opinion combined with my RC title --> just remove my RC title. i really don't care that much about it.

also this thread is not "whiny", it's here to discuss. to share opinions. to see, who's thinking what in which matter. you can't just go to any thread and say something "unwanted" there. but you can here. why should this be prohibited on XDA? especially in a dedicated thread?
[General Topics] eagleeyetom:
Per device limitation. Devices don't brick themselves just like that. If a person isn't smart enough to read the warnings, instructions, guides etc. and bricks the device, he or she should pay for own stupidity. In my opinion this thread goes nowhere. It's like complaining that something isn't free. Developers spent dozens or even hundreds of hours developing the tool. Would you like to work for free? Especially on such dangerous field as phone unlocking? I have serious doubts.
[General Topics] jcase:
I'm saying it is expensive to develop, far more expensive than a rom or typical application. It also takes months of time, and rather expensive tools.

I don't think I should be responsible for that, especially when most of the devices we have worked on are not even ones I would own or work on for myself, they are requests from the community. Donations don't cover this. Last two LG roots I released, for headliner devices, $45 total, I bought two devices developing those. So I spent over $1200 to develop free things, for phones i didn't want nor need, to regain $45.

You complain about having to pay for something, but won't put your own money up to make it free. Yet you expect me to? Is that what I'm understanding?
[General Topics] herwegan:
i know i can never win this discussion and sooner or later you moderators will put a stop to it.

but seriously, this is a debate on principles somehow here. and i know there are many that don't want to hear such things. especially not in public. i could cause troubles.

but still it should be allowed to be discussed and have a thread about it. and that's why i've created this thread. i wanted to make the first step, no one else ever would have dared it. but i know that there are so many people thinking exactly the same about this debate of principles. but you can't share it anywhere. look at this thread and "against" how many RTs and mods i need to "fight" now. don't you guys see that many people love XDA and love it especially for how it was some years ago?

i can just slowly feel how XDA becomes controlled more and more by money. and i think it would be a shame, if it would become even more about money. imagine every dev posting their stuff into paid section! because we ALL invest something, even if it's "only" time.
[General Topics] cyrusct82:
I have the same opinion as you and I want that the devs make a good job with it so I don't brick my device when s-off and now it's so easy with SunShine mostly because you don't need a computer anymore.

So I like to pay 25$/device and if it will be more I will gladly pay.

But the main advantage is that I do it from my sofa and I'm not forced to send the device to someone that I don't even know.
[General Topics] Clark Joseph Kent:
I do see you said, you are whinning... Please be careful on what you ask for regarding your own Status, if you dont care, well....

Again, you are not understanding, if you feel you need to "fight", maybe you should rethink and relook.
[General Topics] cyrusct82:
And let's not forget how many devices we s-offed with the free solutions and how many with SunShine
[General Topics] herwegan:
since i don't want to lose my creditability i want to reassure you: if you can't stand a RC who speaks about topics you don't like to hear --> remove my RC title. i'm 100% serious. it's completely up to you to decide if this is an appropriate action.
[General Topics] KennyG123:
So in the same example, you pay to have your car painted, the motor fails, you get another car, and you expect the painter to paint the new car for free?

This answers the true question about the people who created this thread.

And you try to be deceitful first claiming to rid XDA of the paid section but reality just to whine about Sunshine... And you wonder why people defend Sunshine right to charge in the paid section. Spend a few hundred thousand dollars on an education, learn how to create an S-Off method by buying, testing and bricking hundreds of devices then offer it for free... Everyone will chant your name... You will be great hero! Starving and broke but great hero!
[General Topics] Clark Joseph Kent:
You are going off track in your Off Topic thread....best you stay on your topic of whinning regarding have to pay for $25 for a $700 device, to ensure it is, not bricked, while getting S-off.
[General Topics] hamdir:
this is a twist really, i contribute in my own way to this forum, perhaps some of you know it and others don't, but you don't see me asking anyone for anything in return, i guess its a matter of ethos

for devices you dont own or need, i fully understand but asking 25$ for every M7/M8/M9 (which many are buying for 200$) and then again if they are to be replaced, is too much in my opinion

i said what i have to say, you can crucify me for it all you want
[General Topics] broncogr:
What exactly is the topic we don't want to hear and how exactly is the said software in breach of XDA rules?
[General Topics] hamdir:
please explain to me this part? a device will 99.9% be bricked due to a user fault somewhere or maybe MS-DOSor the famous troubled windows USB drivers messing up, i seriously doubt the devices will be replaced, its more like an insurance policy to make claims you will have to hackle to make it happen
[General Topics] Sneakyghost:
:laugh:

[EDIT]

Oops by the time my slow brain finds something to laugh about, thread has moved on. My laugh was in regards to this.

Apologies.
[General Topics] eagleeyetom:
You don't have to fight anyone. We are not against you. We just want to show you why Sunshine developers have full rights to sell their product.

The difference between old XDA and modern XDA is that a few years ago people didn't expect anything when they got their phones. Development done by real developers was something "wow" and people always wanted to donate to such people. It's breaking a barrier, a limitation put upon by manufacturers. Now it's hard to imagine to many folks around here that device can't be rooted, unlocked etc. Root is something crucial to development and vendors like HTC or Samsung hire the best developers/researchers to make life complicated to us. It's understandable, because people with money can't care less about XDA. They want the device to be secure.

The point is that people demand some top notch developers to release exploits for free. Nobody really cares about electricity costs, bricked devices etc. I'm sure that repairing a broken motherboard costs a fortune. Jcase or any other developer have three ways - get a device and sell the app/exploit to get a refund from the community, get another device and tell wife that the engine in the car is broken or get back to Nokia 3310. What would you chose? We should be really grateful that such safe method exists. No matter the cost is.
[General Topics] hamdir:
again animosity and accusations, sorry my friend i dont need to be deceitful for such non sense

its funny how out of the 99% of useless agressive responses, the only true, respectful and useful ones are coming from the dev himself, for that i commend him
[General Topics] herwegan:
do your business. everyone can do his business. but in my opinion XDA is not the right place to regain the money for your investments. why don't you just provide it in the corporate sector then and try to sell it there to make money?

XDA should not be the place to make money, that's all i'm saying. if you can't afford it to share stuff for free, you should better not share anything on XDA imo. many dev's have a fully working paid variant of their product and a fully working free one on xda. and that's how it should be in my opinion.
[General Topics] herwegan:
that's a weak riposte JJD i'm sorry... this thread is off topic and i'm being attacked here, so don't mind if i defend myself.
[General Topics] herwegan:
Thank you for your sober answer.

Yes, i know that there are different views on this matter. And i can accept your point of view and that you are willing to pay for s-off for the devs efforts. I know there are many others thinking the same way.

But the other side also needs to have a voice..
[General Topics] broncogr:
Is the other side those who don't want to pay for s-off?

If so, answer is easy: They can release their own method, created on their own free time, knowledge and devices.

OR

They can stay S-On and save their money.

S-off is a luxury not something mandatory in order to flash a Rom
[General Topics] jcase:
I don't know where m9 cost $200, or even m8. Please point to them, as the four we have bought so far this month were over $700usd each, and will need more at some point.

I don't see you investing the time, skill, money and energy into the community at the same level either, if you did you would understand the situation accurately.

Example:

I've developed roots or unlocks for most of the devices in this box, this box contains the phones that no longer fit in my infamous rack of phones. I've paid for all the phones in this box, out of my own pocket.
[General Topics] fernando sor:
Getting the m9 was a tough decision because it's a minimal upgrade but I get a new phone every year.

The deciding factor was knowing that soff was achieved and would be released sometime in the near future. Because this a paid service I know that this will be worked on, well tested and probably quickly available. I would donate at least 20 dollars anyways as I've had it free for most of my devices.

Take my dang money I'm ready.
[General Topics] cyrusct82:
Beautiful. Can I have that box? [emoji12]
[General Topics] herwegan:
we know that you are buying many phones [MENTION=2376614]jcase[/MENTION]. on the other side no one forces you to buy more phones than you need for your own use.

but it's the fact that you are making a business out of it that many people don't like. you guys even founded your own company. and the only branch where you can advertise it is XDA... because where else would be customers for mobile unlocks?

and it's not good to see some guys here doing and sharing their stuff and time all for free here and some others making a sh**load of money..

i know it's about principles, and there are many different views. but this is mine and i want to be able to share it in public.
[General Topics] jcase:
I didn't buy more than I needed, I bought exactly what I needed to accomplish the requests from this community (the ones I decided to work on).

Yes we founded an LLC, to protect our own assets (ie my house) from some trying to sue over SunShine, it is how the world works.

I'm done with you guys, feel free to write your own tool.