yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[One (M9) General] th3:
I've posted some. And have many many more to post in a review. My data is showing exactly what every major review site is showing.

Because this same user has a XS-1 and a M8 shooting side-by-side his M9 :)

So my shots are only a technology compare-off.

I agree if you want to critique photos, you need samples, and that's for the photos thread. How to make them better, etc. But when you know all the basics, there's not much there. And here it's all about the technical arguments, and how HTC can improve the camera.

Like discussions on why HTC opted for the never used Toshiba sensor.

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---------- Post added at 07:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 AM ----------

You proved my point. People like this are the reason I don't waste my time posting there.

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[One (M9) General] Albert Poon:
Everyone knows who posted shots with valid arguments and who claimed to be an M9 owner with no proof but just doing all forms of damages. I wanna discuss with the former and I am pissed by the later, and who else isn't?
[One (M9) General] gavinfabl:
http://gavinsgadgets.com/2015/04/09/htc-one-m9-review-part-1/

My review is live. With camera shots to please too. To help my saved camera mode is saturation at +0.5, contrast +0.5 and sharpness -0.5. Obviously you can take sharpness lower etc...as documented .. But this seemed to work better as an overall new auto mode selection .
[One (M9) General] th3:
True, if people hype or trash talk a phone... I'd like to see both their proof of owning and using one first :)

Not some borrowed, HTC supplied, review unit ;)

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[One (M9) General] vegetaleb:
Apart Gavin's photos all other M9 photos are good only if resized to something lower than 3mp, I opened tons of flicker full size of the photos using the ''tricks'' given in the forum, they are a little better than full auto but there are still too much loss of details.

It's easy to say wow to a photo when it's resized from 20 to 2mp. Let's hope HTC can release a magic OTA to decrease the compression and noise removal factor
[One (M9) General] racingmatt1:
Can anyone give me the best camera settings for the m9/m7
[One (M9) General] ducey:
Phandroid says there's an update on the way: http://phandroid.com/2015/04/09/htc-one-m9-camera-update/
[One (M9) General] vegetaleb:
Wow exactly as I expected :)

If details are greatly improved, it will change everything
[One (M9) General] fernando sor:
Here is the comparison.

http://phandroid.com/2015/04/09/htc-one-m9-camera-update-comparison/
[One (M9) General] rmc69:
A senior editor at A. C. is saying they had the update prior to their review so this is nothing new in their words.
[One (M9) General] ticklemepinks:
the new pics are making me pick it up tomorrow
[One (M9) General] fernando sor:
I don't know. They need to show a ss of the software number. They haven't done that. They are acting kind of smug about so they better hope they are right.
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
The new firmware ends with .33
[One (M9) General] vegetaleb:
Didn't know M9 photos were that foggy!

As for amounts of details we can't conclude before some else can confirm and rework a direct comparison with the N4,iphone6,S6...to see if quality is finally closer or not
[One (M9) General] sausje85:
I hope this new software will fix the bokeh too... getting pissed off that 95% of the pictures i take with it, it "can't identify object in foreground"...

I mean pictures like this: http://i.imgur.com/AvDniOj.jpg and http://i.imgur.com/5lFLaxz.jpg

How can it not detect an object in the foreground there?!!?!
[One (M9) General] xxquicksh0txx:
I'm not sure how he managed to have so much 'fog' in all of those pictures.

None of the pictures I've taken with my T-Mobile version have looked like that.
[One (M9) General] haZethew0rld:
Has anyone with a dev edition One gotten the new update yet?
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
dude ignore the fake bokeh mode, you have an f2.2 aperture, which on the upside gives a nice natural bokeh, just try Macro mode like gavin advice and you are in very a nice suprise, one of the best things for me on the M9 camera is the beautiful depth of field

here is what Macro did for me, it was so easy, i took 20 photos of this flower, even with auto focus they all came out perfect, have a look

https://www.flickr.com/photos/56930129@N03/17046522531/in/set-72157651646612476

https://www.flickr.com/photos/56930129@N03/17046522531/in/set-72157651646612476

regarding phanandroid comparison, there is a problem, his "pre" photos are all ruined thanks to a dirty lens, you would think a professional reviewer would notice that....
[One (M9) General] th3:
Phandroid first photos are too off, so I can't tell the gain.

Macro (if you have a working focus), selfie, bright daylight and HDR were already very good. It's the rest that needs drastic improvement and, the white balance.

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[One (M9) General] sephstyler:
Perhaps there was a bit of finger print / smudge on the lens in the before shots....
[One (M9) General] Jooosty:
[MENTION=1144067]hamdir[/MENTION]

What's the verdict on the M9s camera?

I closely followed your work with the M8 and was a big fan. Very professional review and shots with phone.

I currently have a S6 Edge, and although the camera is excellent, I am missing some of the HTC qualities . I have a chance to get a M9 for a good price and would like to know your insight.
[One (M9) General] Moomoomania:
Although I'm not Hamdir, I think the M9's camera is pretty good. People are blowing it WAAAAYYY out of proportion when they say it's ****. It's as good as every other phone's camera but because of the software (issue), it's causing photos to go from one extreme to the other when tap to focus (hence, can be fixed fairely easily). Video however, cannot be fixed and if you literally don't do a lot of video capture like me, it's not a problem

Zedomax fixing the M9's photo quality (spoiler: gonna have to use manual mode to get same quality as s6)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svM-FhJxqd8
[One (M9) General] Terole:
update camera fix

I really cant understand who is getting the update. They say that AT&T and other US carriers will get the update to match the international version of the phone. I have the international version of the phone. Bought it unlocked from expansys and the camera is awful . Also my firmware number doesn't match the firmware of the updated ones in the US. Is the european M9 going to get the update ? or is it already "updated"? my firmware number is 1.32.401.15
[One (M9) General] jauhien:
You're 100% up to date.. Enjoy it!

If your photos are still awful - wipe the lens every time before shooting.. and also please adjust the camera settings and learn how to use "touch-to-capture"..

Thank you for your understanding.
[One (M9) General] Terole:
Thank you very much for your reply! i will adjust my settings and post my before and after results.
[One (M9) General] UCFour:
As per HTC Sources, only Demo / Review units are updated.

I read a post of HTC US VP in twitter and according to him the update will be released today i.e friday 17 April
[One (M9) General] Terole:
Thanks for your reply, this makes more sense because i still believe my camera results are not what they should be. And they are not close to those samples that we see online as before and after the "update" . Since we cannot post any samples in our discussion i can only say that my photos are not good not what a flagship phone should carry. It is a bet that Htc lost here, and if they don't find a way to fix it they will loose their integrity . All the software updates in the world wont be able to make this a really good camera as the iphone 6 or galaxy s6/edge. Hardware is key here and i don't think toshiba's sensor is capable of big things .. they should have gone with Sony's sensor like everybody else.

I wish i am wrong for all of these above..but if this problem remains the same i might go and trade my M9 for a galaxy s6......
[One (M9) General] xxquicksh0txx:
Just because it's Sony's sensor doesn't mean they would have got better results. Look at the Z series, using their own sensor... Sure, you can get good shots with the Z3, but the camera software/algorithms suck.

This Toshiba sensor would be perfectly fine if HTC could get their act together.
[One (M9) General] Terole:
That's true but it seems impossible to fix all of this bad performance with just software, and also how long will it take? And let's not get started on video performance on the m9 which also has huge problems. Hopefully they can manage to fix this somehow because they tend to address issues, not always but sometimes.
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
are you suggesting that touch to capture helps in reducing motion blur? :)

but it can screw up centered exposure ;) its best to rely on auto focus
[One (M9) General] th3:
I found touch to capture works well in some circumstances (where focus is sucking or colours are wrong), but otherwise, autofocus should be relied upon.

Because you start getting exposure problems and blur in many situations.

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[One (M9) General] rmc69:
I thought AT&T was supposed to release the camera fix update today.
[One (M9) General] jauhien:
With all my huge respect to you..

Are you Terole ? was that meant to advise YOU?

Thank you.
[One (M9) General] xxquicksh0txx:
Woah, there's no need for that.

He was just stating the obvious. Touch to capture also adjusts the exposure to that point, which almost always makes it worse.
[One (M9) General] ZombieSuffer:
I've been checking daily since I heard there was going to be an update coming.

Nothing yet for me - HTC One M9 on AT&T in the US.

Current Software number is 1.32.502.9 and Android version is 5.0.2.
[One (M9) General] frankcck:
OTA for AT&T will come on April 21st.

hTc one M9 LET THEM STARE
[One (M9) General] th3:
No it doesn't (on the M9).

It's just an opinion.

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[One (M9) General] xxquicksh0txx:
What's an opinion?

Touch to capture definitely adjusts exposure for me.
[One (M9) General] DeadPotato:
Removed space between quotes

I'm not entirely sure if I missed something cause there has been a lot of discussion about this topic, so can you look at this video and tell me if I'm missing something about the lens capabilities? I'm not an expert photographer either, so please watch it and tell me if you still think the same and why

https://youtu.be/svM-FhJxqd8
[One (M9) General] Terole:
lens quality

I have seen the video and i agree. The problem is that you can achieve good results only with the manual mode( for now ) and i tried to do that having also some experience my self with photography but photo quality did not improve much. The lens might be ok but it does't have the point and shoot mentality of the iPhone where software plays it's part and every photo comes out perfect.
[One (M9) General] th3:
Yes, it does... Which works well when you have some badly exposed, poorly focused or incorrectly white balanced pictures. As most are experiencing.
[One (M9) General] Albert Poon:
I really do not agree. iPhone is indeed good at point and shoot for instant documentary. However, it is far from being perfect. It can only take photos in its designed way, just like cooking an instant noodle. Every photo it takes come out in the same fashion. If I am paying for a top of the line device, I am expecting flexibility, user controllable but not controlled settings. With HTC camera, users' soul can be revealed by the pictures they take. With iPhone, you can only show the company's pocket from the pictures it takes.
[One (M9) General] SPreston2001:
Ok but what's the point in having complete control of a cameras flexibility when 90% of the iPhones photos still come out looking better than the manually tweaked photos of the M9?? Sure you can play around with the settings but phone manufacturers appeal to the masses and unfortunately those masses aren't people like us on XDA. People just want a phone they can pull out and snap great pics with. A top of the line device should be able to do BOTH! It should have ability to take stunning photos in auto mode, yet have the flexibility to offer manual settings that can be tweaked.
[One (M9) General] xxquicksh0txx:
They're badly exposed because they don't use auto focus.

I'm not sure how to touch to capture is any different than not using auto focus... I get the same results.
[One (M9) General] Terole:
Good point ! but in my opinion a true flagship phone that has such a strong competition out there should come with a better camera performance out of the box. no manual settings no special fixes ... nothing! just overall great performance ( note4 for example ). and i am sure the lens has potential on the m9 but so far my experience is worst than a nexus device( before nexus6) !
[One (M9) General] Albert Poon:
[MENTION=2122686]SPreston2001[/MENTION] [MENTION=4777412]Terole[/MENTION]

True currently the preset Auto Mode does perform badly, but however I believe when we can tweak its native camera's settings to have a better result, I am sure HTC will provide further upgrades to improve the quality to a respectable level. By then, you guys will own me an explanation on why should one pay $8xx for a mobile phone with an untweakable camera when M9/M9+ can shoot on par quality pictures normally and way better when tweaked?

Even if 100% pictures taken by an untweakable camera are great I will still ask the same question or make the same request - I want to take a picture my own way. Now tell me which is more unlikely - HTC releases further updates to improve the camera or Apple releases update to provide manual control?
[One (M9) General] SPreston2001:
Lol honestly I think both situations are pretty unlikely lol. I'm sure the M9 will get a few more updates to make the camera decent, but I don't think they will release a magical software update that will make the camera iPhone or N4 worthy. We all know Apple is all about controlling every aspect of the phone so I highly doubt they will offer manual controls either lol.
[One (M9) General] DeadPotato:
I completely agree on that, in my opinion M9 was just released so early in order to meet a deadline. All of the fixes for the camera they have done and hopefully they will, the overheating issues, all of those things should have come out of the box. However your first statement was the lens was bad by hardware itself, what was what I tried to show with the video.

In my opinion the hardware is there, just the software isn't yet, which I expect to improve in the future.
[One (M9) General] itzsnookums:
Well then..
[One (M9) General] sephstyler:
HTC M9 in TW has received an update. Details are still thin on the ground, but from the Viper thread:

Per this post: http://xdaforums.com/show...postcount=1412

Improvements include:

And yes,lots of netizens in Taiwan said that the quality of camera is a little bit improved.
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
Freedcam received an important update:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=troop.com.freedcam
[One (M9) General] sephstyler:
I wonder if there any improvements to the jpg shots with this update.
[One (M9) General] Jonathan-H:
After being initially critical of the Camera on the M9, I have come to appreciate it. I had a Note 4 before it and initially thought the M9 camera was awful but after actual real life useage, i've come to realise it's no worse than the Note 4 in daytime shots, in fact it's better in some situations (when extra detail and zooming is required).

Night shots are a little slower to focus than the Note 4 and the Note has less noise in the shots, but any kind of movement blurs the subject, making them unusable anyway.

As for Iphone camera's, i've yet to see a photo I thought was any good in real world use from an iphone so don't get all the hype.

Any critisism of the M9 is extremely picky in my opinion.
[One (M9) General] sephstyler:
I agree with you to some degree. I've been shooting on my m9 in jpg, but in Manual, and results are much better, especially in low light situations.

The thing that irks me is, we know its much more capable than the Auto mode is, PLUS, we now know the RAW images arent that bad at all, it seems to just suggest that the AUTO mode and the JPG processing needs more work. its a case of so close, yet so far.

If HTC improved the JPG processing, and auto mode was, as a result, better, it would help immensely with the mainstream folk who expect a simple, decent camera.
[One (M9) General] DeadPotato:
I completely agree with you, not to mention all of the reviewers out there are not using manual mode for reviews or RAW captures, they use the buggy auto mode and the buggy JPG processing, which gives a general impression to everyone the camera it's bad when it actually it's not :(
[One (M9) General] SPreston2001:
Yeah I actually went to a T-Mobile store over the weekend and played around with a M9 to see how the camera performed after the latest update. After a few test shots honestly the camera seemed fine to me. I made sure it was in auto mode and snapped some pics around the store and honestly for a cell cam the photos looked about the same as my Note 4. I compared them to a few other phones including the iPhone 6 and honestly without seeing them blew up on a computer screen they all looked about the same except for the differences in white balance, color saturation etc.. I cant comment on the video quality since I didn't test that but the photos looked fine to me. I'm still critical about the recycled designed, but after having my N4 for a few months I'm missing my HTC experience! TouchWiz just can't compare to Sense!! It lags and stutters all over the place even after the Lollipop update and custom Roms!! Other Sammy users may not notice it, but after being with HTC for years its pretty obvious to me!
[One (M9) General] neo905:
The reality is as a mass consumer device not aimed at XDA tinkerers. It has to work out the box as a point and shoot camera well in light and dark settings like the S6 does. It also has to shoot steady video with a capable OIS like the S6. That is just the reality of the situation.
[One (M9) General] lilhaiti:
I have had the M7, M8 and now the M9 and as an M series loyal, I am disappointed in the overall quality of the camera tuning of this phone. I do not buy phones for the camera but I do use the camera for quick shots and one thing I liked about the camera on the M8 was that it took pretty good quick shots without fiddling with settings. I know that you can fiddle with the camera and get a good shot out of the M9, but that ain't what I want to be doing when I see something I want to take a picture of. It's a cell phone not a DSLR camera, I don't want to adjust the camera to take a good shot; I want/need to be able to pull the phone out of my pocket, point and shoot and get a good pic, not a great or perfect pic. I really hope that HTC can fix the Auto Mode on the M9's camera, like others have said, most people are going to just point and shoot with a cell phone and at the very least they could have gotten that right first.
[One (M9) General] richierich:
Well after receiving my M9 and applying the camera update, the image results are considerably better than they were when the device was fresh out of the box. However I have since installed Snap Camera HDR and I'm very pleased with the results im getting. By using the stable shot feature, I'm able to get blur free images fairly consistently now, and the HDR mode which can be tailored to your own preference does an amazing job of stretching out the dynamic range and producing very good images, even in low light situations. I am 100% convinced now that all the issues with this camera are software related and eagerly await further updates to improve the poor jpeg processing that HTC have pushed out with this device.

There's hope yet people!
[One (M9) General] neo905:
I just tried Snap Camera. I didn't like it at all. I liked the settings available but the actual results I didn't like. Plus it is too difficult to make changes in the viewfinder. I don't like having to use the swiping gestures to get to the settings.
[One (M9) General] richierich:
You don't need to use the swipey on screen settings, as I too found that fiddly to begin with. If you tap the left side of the screen it brings up the same menu and is much easier to use that way (you can just touch what you need from there onwards). As for image results, take a little time to play with the various settings especially within the HDR tab, it makes a considerable difference. Also the various scene modes do make a difference in terms of point and shoot capability, and I can now at least use the camera and expect decent results without having to trawl through various menus to tweak the shot every time.
[One (M9) General] neo905:
The other things I didn't like.

1.) Video had trouble focusing and went dark to light too much. Even more than the HTC Camera now does. Maybe my settings are off.

2.) It killed my battery. For the 10 minutes I fiddled with it my battery went down 10% from 97%-87%. That's too much.

3.) I disabled location capture and it still had high GPS usage.

4.) I guess I need to play with it more. But I was hoping for a point and click solution. I actually like Camera FV-5 better.
[One (M9) General] themuffinman:
Are you even listening to what you are saying? Manual mode are for the enthusiasts which only represent an extremely small fraction of the overall user base, so why should reviewers focus on that. If anything it should be a foot note at best. Manual mode does nothing if you need to take a quick picture of something that's happening at the moment. The competition aren't having these kinds of issues with their auto mode so what does that tell you about the poor job htc has done? They need to get this fixed ASAP but its probably too late anyway.
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
the fine line is in the middle gentlemen, i agree with both of you

- Auto mode should not be so bad for the average users, in its current state it's total unacceptable offering by HTC

- But reviewers are professionals, they should be professional and cover the settings / manual / RAW mode correctly, in a way they should say "bad auto mode BUT you can fix it and go beyond etc" barely anyone is doing that

- Can we not involve everyone in this "lazy" madness? not everyone wants to be drunk and take a blind shot? not everyone wants to play games on easy mode! well then HTC is not the camera for you, there is a back story as well: HTC were among the first to introduce detailed camera controls, they have a different "school" regarding phone camera, back when the iPhone 3Gs camera was abysmal with one button control, HTC diamond was pushing 3MP with full controls including ISO and sharpness, the One X brought us burst shutter...HTC cameras were always aimed for those who want a little more than close eyes point and shoot
[One (M9) General] neo905:
HTC was also one of the first to have OIS but two generations later it still hasn't returned. They need to continue to be leaders and have an actually direction when it comes to the camera and they simply are not. Ultra pixel gone and now overcompensating with a bad mega pixel experience. At the end of the day they have to appeal to the masses with this camera and they failed so far. I've given them a bit of a pass and am giving them the opportunity to improve it over time as I am confident they will. They can't count on that though from the average consumer.
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
i fully agree but the sensor is good we proved that so software will go a long way here and i think the UP camera proved that, compare the UP in its latest state to the first experience on the M7, its night vs day
[One (M9) General] themuffinman:
HTC has had a lot of firsts no doubt, I have owned every htc flagship since the apache so I am familiar with everything you mentioned but that doesn't excuse them for the lackluster performance of the m9's camera even if they offer more manual options than anyone else.