yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
Yes and no.

Yes. There is no way to downgrade the bootloader. Correct there is no way to downgrade the bootloader.

But its more than the bootloader, as motoboot.img contains a few parts. And GPT.BIN is the partition table.

Attempting to downgrade is very risky. Chances of bricking are high, but not a certainty. In some cases it results in Hard Brick, others its a soft brick, with varying degrees of success recovering. And yes, even a few people have flashed an older rom (which didn't downgrade everything) and were somewhat successful (i.e. no immediate brick).

Short summary would be.. Its very risky to downgrade, so don't attempt it, if you don't mind the very real possibility of worst case it turning your phone into a paperweight, or needing to do a lot of work to recover, either immediately, or in the future.
[Moto X General] Darth:
A good way to research what can/will happen if you downgrade... And how some lucky people fixed their device (many weren't lucky).... Just google "xda moto X bricked" and read through some of the threads about it when kit Kat came out.

To me and most experienced X users....the simple advice is never try to downgrade.

If you flash another carriers 5.0.2 and have serious issues.... Use a backup device until your carriers SBF is hopefully leaked. Your X may be unusable, but at least it will be safe.

Just my 2 cents. :good:
[Moto X General] Steve-x:
It has been some time since I have used a 2013 Moto X but when I was active in this forum I recall people could downgrade. However there are some very important caveats to that statement. The bootloader and partition table can never be downgraded however the other files can be. If you do downgrade you cannot take an OTA - this is what will cause an ugly brick. You can however upgrade again if you flash the required files manually using fastboot or rsdlite. Once you have manually flashed a full image where the bootloader and partition table are once again current you can accept future OTA's again.

This is a tricky set of rules to follow though, and offers very little forgiveness if you make a mistake.

btw, It appears that Motorola has fixed this flaw with the 2014 Moto X - the bootloader and partition table still cannot be downgraded but you can still flash an older version of the other files and then take an OTA update without any bricking - so far anyway.
[Moto X General] patrdris:
Do you recall whether there are any features that might not work after downgrading by flashing an earlier boot.img, recovery.img, system.img, and modem, but leaving the bootloader and partition table untouched? I read elsewhere (here) that having a bootloader and partition table that don't match the rom on the phone could cause phone security to quit working. Specifically, I want to downgrade from 5.0.2 to 4.4.4.
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
The ONLY TIME it was safe to downgrade was when following the SlapMyMoto process which talked you through going from 4.4 to the 4.2.2 w/camera update version. (and that is mentioned in the OP, point #4)

Not covered in the OP, are the different levels of bricking that can occur. One of which can be fixed by flashing the FULL SBF file via mFastboot with a few extra steps (as outlined in option 5 at -> http://mark.cdmaforums.com/MotoX-ReturnToStock.html )

There are more severe bricks which could not be recovered, and some in between which needed a more complex process (see -> http://xdaforums.com/moto-x/general/how-to-resurrecting-bricked-moto-x-t2629057 )
[Moto X General] Megatron007:
KidJoe Have A look Here - http://motox-brasil.blogspot.in/2015/03/tutorial-motox-fazendo-downgrade-do.html?m=1 Wats U r View On it ?
[Moto X General] Liam0o:
Whoever wrote that guide should put a warning on it, step 6 removes the part of the script that flashes gpt/bootloader so whoever follows it will end up with mismatched partitions, 4.4.4 may boot but taking an OTA on it would be high risk of bricking

You'll basically be left with the Brazilian 5.0.2 bootloader and partition table with 4.4.4 system/modem which is a recipe for disaster

If anyone desperately regrets flashing the brazilian 5.0.2 then use a custom rom for now and pray that a 5.0.2 SBF becomes available for your model
[Moto X General] perfoliate:
Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks to me like they are removing the lines for the items that can't be downgraded to get it all to flash without errors. Problems may still arise later because of the mismatched parts.

Edit: ^^^post above beat me to the post, and I agree completely [emoji32]
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
As [MENTION=4669394]Liam0o[/MENTION] and [MENTION=3017374]perfoliate[/MENTION] have already replied... Step 6 of those instructions causes you to be set up that when you flash via RSDlite, it will skip flashing GPT.BIN and MOTOBOOT.IMG. And in the past that has been problematic either immediately, or when attempting to take an OTA later.

That is exactly what I am describing in Point #2 of the original post in this thread.

It was also described by someone here on XDA, again, there wasn't a warning on it.. ( like here -> http://xdaforums.com//moto-x/genera...est-brazil-t3057509/post59517991#post59517991 for example)

Oh, and situations like this -> http://xdaforums.com/moto-x/moto-x-qa/screwed-t3059954 are what we are trying to avoid by advising people of the risks, suggesting warnings/cautions be placed on any instructions, and outright suggesting people do NOT attempt to downgrade. This person was one of the lucky ones.
[Moto X General] jesan9:
i have some questions:

1) i have a XT1053 DE, i flashed the soak for XT1053 and my bootloader says 30.BC, i have no intentions to go back to stock, but can i restore a TWRP backup from the 4.4.4 stock and then flash the new OTA when it will be available?

2) if i flash using mfastboot only the system.img and boot.img from the 4.4.4 without touching the GPT.BIN and MOTOBOOT.IMG, will be good?

3)if i stay with the soak test, i will be able to get the official OTA?

thx and sorry for my english if is something wrong :D
[Moto X General] whgp:
Thank you KidJoe :good:

I like your threads
[Moto X General] perfoliate:
I would not take any OTA's at this point until its known as safe to do so. I would stay where you are or on a custom ROM until a new SBF is released for the xt1053 that has the same or newer bootloader and other secure parts.
[Moto X General] jesan9:
oh ok, thx for the answer...
[Moto X General] Smash2Bash:
I have an XT1053 and I believe I have flashed the full AT&T 4.4.4 and then I flashed the T-Mobile Dev edition 4.4.4 and I wasn't bricked...not knowing I could be bricked...but what's odd is..so were the bootloaders the same? Because if one was different shouldn't I be bricked? I flashed modem and all wondering if my AT&T service would increase. And currently after flashing the Brazilian 4.4.4 and then OTA..once again.. How in the world am I not bricked? Not doubting anyone's info. Just wondering really...
[Moto X General] :
You didn't flash a previous Android version, you flashed the same version, so bootloader version never changed. ?
[Moto X General] Smash2Bash:
Gotcha, I fully understand now. Thank you! ?
[Moto X General] s5610:
I think yes. Bootloader isn't downgraded, so you are safe. Make 5.0.2 and 4.4.4 backups, and you can interchange them freely. Modem can remain be from 5.0.2 1053 T-Mobile. Don't use Brazilian!

Yep.

Yes. Or you find service firmware, it will appear after a while, as usual )
[Moto X General] jesan9:
I did the backup before (4.4.4) and after the ota update just in case :D

thank you so much for your answer... it really helps and i appreciate it:good:
[Moto X General] s5610:
Thanks for thanking me ))) You can also download XT1053 5.0.2 modem for your phone (search here).

He will be in final release, I think.
[Moto X General] r_diaz13:
[MENTION=1165307]KidJoe[/MENTION] question for you. I received the soak teat invite for my 1053, long story short, after I upgraded I started seeing this funny message (low ram space I think). Said I needed 250mb free ram blah blah blah. I used the factory image for my unlocked 1053 from moto (4.4.4) was able to flash all files manually and the phone didn't die. Lucky me. My issue now is I'm pretty much wipes clean on my phone as I start restoring data I begin seeing that error again. I even tried installing xposed but the minute I flashed the zip file necessary I saw the error. Could be the something wrong with my partitions?
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
For #1 and #2, please see posts 21, 22, and 23 of this thread.

For #3. It depends on how far along in the process this Leak was. In the past, unless some catastrophic issue is found, Soaks are usually the exact same as the final software pushed to everyone. So if this really is a SOAK test meant for a wider audience, the there would be no "official OTA" that is different than what you have. If however these files were meant as some kind of intermediate testing version, to a small targeted group, then you likely wont get the next OTA, and/or wont be able to apply it manually.

Signing up on the Moto Feedback Network (MFN), Motorola will have your IMEI on record. They push these test files selectively. If you were not officially invited, they wont have your IMEI as being part of the test, so If they change versions mid stream, etc, they can't push new things to you. And since the OTA's have a pre-flash validation check requiring you be on a particular version, if you are not, it wont install.
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
I think NO. as already explained, when gpt.bin and motoboot.img are mismatched to the rest of ROM, other issues can/will arise.

Again, its not 100% that you can say "yep." It is risky, and mismatch between the GPT.BIN and Motoboot.img has been shown to cause issues in the past, therefore its relevant to advise that it is risky and might cause issues.

To date, except for the Developer Edition ones, the SBF files have LEAKED... Moto hasn't officially posted them. In other words they are basically grabbed by someone who has access at some point from Moto's servers (or somewhere along the chain), who then posts the file on the internet for us... So we can't always count on this ever happening, nor can we have any expectations that a particular firmware will actually get leaked, or when it will be leaked.

The Asia retail 4.4.4 SBF took several months before it finally leaked causing a few people to be stuck, waiting.

Because leaks are unofficial, are Moto intellectual property, etc it could stop at any time. Thankfully it hasn't yet, and hopefully it will continue.
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
So you went... XT1053 4.4.4 -> Lollipop "Soak" update for XT1053 -> XT1053 4.4.4 SBF...

For every MFN test I'd been invited too, Moto setup a hidden area in their forum to discuss it. If you were truly invited to the test by MFN, and the error happened while on the Lollipop test they sent you, I would have posted the question and relevant info there before taking any actions. I don't know if they will take the bug submission and offer help now that you downgraded to 4.4.4.

At this point, I don't have any suggestions for you. Sorry.
[Moto X General] s5610:
del
[Moto X General] r_diaz13:
I posted the results issues on the private forum but didn't get a response from the moderator.
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
already answered a few posts ago.
[Moto X General] Yoru9102:
Question

I had this firmware: AMERICAMOVIL-MX_4.4.4_KXB21.14-L1.40_38_cid12_CFC_1FF

I flashed this: XT1058_RETAIL-BR_4.4.4_KXA21.12-L1.26_52_cid12_CFC_1FF

I didn't flash motoboot and gpt

Can I take OTA (Lollipop) when released?
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
So you flashed an older build (i.e. downgraded) and skipped the GPT/Motoboot when doing so, and want to know if you can take the OTA?

If you understand you are more likely to brick in that state, and that doesn't bother you, sure take the OTA.

But if you want to be sure you wont brick, then wait until a full SBF leaks.

(again, this is based on HISTORY, when people have done the exact same thing as you in the past)
[Moto X General] Sabissimo:
Hi

Thanks for the useful info!

I have couple of questions though, couldn't find answers in the post.

I'm currently on 4.4.4 AT&T. As far as I understand, downgrading, rooting and then taking OTA at any time in the future = brick.

My question is - is it possible to do this:

1. Flash 4.4.2 without gpt and motoboot

2. Root it

3. Use sunshine and unlock BL

4. SBF back to 4.4.4 (it doesn't count as OTA, right?)

Thanks in advance :) And sorry if the question is stupid or answered before
[Moto X General] Nicolae-Daniel:
Downgrading android version doesn't downgrade bootloader.
[Moto X General] Sabissimo:
As far as I know, the main problem that there is right now with Sunshine not working on 4.4.4 is that there is no root method for it, not that bootloader has changed. So not downgrading BL should not be a problem in my list, theoretically :)
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
For #1... It has been addressed several times. Please see point #2 in the OP, the discussion in posts 20 through 23.

But as for your overall question... Is it ok to 4.4.4 -> downgrade to 4.4.2, if it survives use Sunshine to unlock the bootloader, then flash SBF to return to 4.4.4...

As evidenced by the many posts of 2013 X owners with 4.4.4 HERE and HERE, this scenario does NOT allow Sunshine to work for those who are already on 4.4.4. Once you are on 4.4.4, if Sunshine reports it wont work, there is nothing you can do.

Even JCASE (responsible for Sunshine) says Not with ATT 4.4.4 -> http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=59613772&postcount=2896
[Moto X General] Sabissimo:
Well, Sunshine gives me error, cause it can't gain TempRoot to check compatibility. I was thinking it's more of root problem, then incompatibility problem. And even Jcase's comments on that matter were implying that no root on 4.4.4 = no unlock. Maybe I was wrong :( Thanks anyway!
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
Right or wrong, it was asked about many times, and downgrading to 4.4.2 was never given as an option.

I'm sure if downgrading allowed Sunshine to work, Jcase and/or Beaups would have said so since it has been asked about many times. I mean his SlapMyMoto and other processes for rooting older roms did involve downgrading, flashing, etc. plus he would stand to make a few more $$ off the tool if it was possible.

I'm sure if you read through the thread by Jcase/Beaups, you'll probably find a more specific answer.
[Moto X General] Kustaa:
Excellent post. So I've some questions. I'm on 30.B7 (stock XT1058_MOVISTAR-CL_4.4.4_KXA21.12-L1.26_63_cid12_CFC_1FF) and unlocked bootloader. When you talk about cross flashing, how do I recognize a newer or an older build respect from mine? (For example this retail XT1058_RETAIL-BR_4.4.4_KXA21.12-L1.26_52_cid12_CFC_1FF)

And a 2nd one, Should I ever flash latin american firmwares? Does having the unlocked bootloader make any difference? Just for knowing if I should wait an eventually Lollipop OTA or if I can just flash a retail firm from another country/region when its ready.

Thank you!
[Moto X General] anilrawal:
Likely Radio Corrupt

My Bootloader is 30.b7, with unlocked bootloader, motox retail version xt1053. I am having issues connecting to carriers networks, lilely my radio is corrupt. I installed TWRP recovery and have tried installing lolipop cm based roms, and my device always goes in loop. I always have to restore from the nand backup.

Can I flash MOTO X, GSM Dev Edition: KK-4.4.4-KXA21.12-L1.29.1-2 (Retail) MR4 image and does this umage will upgrade the bootloader.
[Moto X General] Liam0o:
You can flash a radio without flashing a whole system image, also, are you following CM installation instructions properly? Flashing CM 12 without flashing CM11 first will result in a bootloop

.b7 is the latest 4.4.4 bootloader and that image is the latest one for your device so it should work fine
[Moto X General] anilrawal:
Thanks

I followed the instruction, but di not see I have to flash CM11 first, I will try again. Thanks
[Moto X General] vikramkhalsa:
Hey guys, thanks for this helpful thread!

I wanted to get some advice for my situation:

I was part of the official Lollipop Soak Test for the xt1053 (DE). Sometime after taking the update, I flashed TWRP and rooted with SU. Now moto has pushed an additional update in the soak test and I cant install it ( I think because I don't have stock recovery and my system is modified. ) How can I get my system back to stock 5.0.1 to accept the update? Do I have to wait for an SFB? Unfortunately i don't think I made a twrp backup before installing xposed and I don't see a simple way of disabling it or changing system back to stock. Perhaps I could use a system and recovery from someone else who may have backed it up?

Is 4.4 and 5+ android recovery the same?

I made a twrp backup on 4.4 before upgrading to lollipop, but flashing that would be downgrading and risking brick, right?

Thanks

---------- Post added at 10:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 AM ----------

Did you backup before installing xposed by any chance? Can you do a system backup?

Thanks
[Moto X General] Jason.DROID:
30.B7 is the same as the 4.4.4 image you referenced, so it's safe to flash everything.

BTW, why isn't this thread stickied?
[Moto X General] r_diaz13:
That's what I did.. I kept a back up before I made any changes.
[Moto X General] vikramkhalsa:
Do you think you could share your back up with me? I didn't make one and I need to get back to stock.

Thank you!!!
[Moto X General] rskyline:
Sticky please!

Enviado desde mi XT1060 mediante Tapatalk
[Moto X General] rskyline:
JTAG could unbrick?

Enviado desde mi XT1060 mediante Tapatalk
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
Sorry for taking so long to respond...

How do you tell the difference between newer vs older? See what is highlighted in RED...

XT1058_MOVISTAR-CL_4.4.4_KXA21.12-L1.26_63_cid12_CFC_1FF

XT1058_RETAIL-BR_4.4.4_KXA21.12-L1.26_52_cid12_CFC_1FF

So the XT1058 Retail is slightly different/older.

Your 2nd one is really several..

To be honest, the safest thing to do is only flash firmwares/roms/sbf's meant for your carrier and model.

Having an unlocked bootloader does allow you to flash roms meant for other models, even if they wont work, or might cause issues. (so having an unlocked bootloader XT1060, you could flash an XT1058 sbf, BUT it might not work, and the phone might not boot.

Unless there is some major, compelling reason, that makes it worth the risks flashing the ROM/SBF not meant for your phone, with an unlocked bootloader, I recommend you stick with what you have, root it, use Titanium Backup to freeze bloat, xposed to tweak.

But again, it is your phone. IF you understand the risks, and are ok with the possible outcomes, they by all means, make your decision, and do what you want.
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
All XT1053 devices use the exact same ROMs/SBFs. i..e the XT1053 was sold via Moto Maker as the "GSM Unlocked (ships with T-Mobile SIM)" as well as the "GSM Unlocked (ships with Net10 SIM)" and the GSM Developer Edition. They all use the same SBF.

If you have 30.B7 on your phone, its consistent with 4.4.4 roms. So flashing a 4.4.4 SBF wont impact bootloader. And as long as you've only had the stock XT1053, and CM based roms on there, you wont have to worry about GPT.BIN and Motoboot.img.
[Moto X General] rskyline:
Hi, do you have any idea if JTAG could unbrick?
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
I do not know.
[Moto X General] :
Just a theory..... But I would think if it worked, it would have been well known long ago. ;)
[Moto X General] JulesJam:
Did you see this thread:

http://xdaforums.com/moto-x/general/moto-x-root-pogress-60-t3071602

The method involves intentionally bricking the device so that you can enter bootloader restore mode and get root.

Perhaps you could use the method to enter bootloader restore mode and restore your device.
[Moto X General] rskyline:
Maybe not everyone knows that a JTAG could unbrick some devices or not all have any repair shop with JTAG available! XD

I actually have a moto g bricked by downgrading from lollipop. But I'm trying to find a solution everywhere since they are similar devices in Motorola's way of "security".

Enviado desde mi XT1060 mediante Tapatalk
[Moto X General] ken1645:
I had the same problem and ended up downgrading exactly the way that OP says to not do it. Eventually did get something working though with the newest soak test but unknown if next 5.1 OTA will brick my device. Time will tell. Regardless I don't care that much if I kill my device, would give me an excuse to buy a new phone :)
[Moto X General] :
Just don't OTA. :silly:
[Moto X General] s5610:
Just don't believe that Earth is rounded, just don't get in space... :p

I resurrected recently my Dev Ed from the condition of ideal brick shape, so I'm happy and bouncy again like a Sponge Bob :D

Unbricking Moto X Guide for any Moto X Gen 1 (wire trick)​

But I wouldn't recommend to play with different bootloader versions, if you can't disassemble the phone, e.g. Don't do this at home! :cowboy:

No jokes. There is a guy on this forum, who couldn't bring his rig to life, even with wire guide, and that's sad...
[Moto X General] JimJ2Mz:
Just to confirm, as long as I don't attempt to downgrade any major parts of the firmware like the bootloader, I'm good right?

I'm currently on the XT1053 5.0.2 Soak Test but I want to jump to CM12.1. That involves flashing a ROM, gapps, SuperSU, and NOTHING ELSE.

That means I'm safe, right? No bricks or nuclear warfare?

EDIT//

Soak test means I'm on stock recovery.

It won't be a problem if I fastboot flash TWRP, right?

I'm in a rush, so apologies for questions that might seem obvious and/or are already answered.

Thanks.
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
I haven't used CM11 or 12, but my understanding is they are like any other custom rom where installing them only touches the /system partition of the phone, and requires 3rd party recovery like TWRP. So it doesn't touch radio, gpt.bin, what motoboot.img touches, etc.

No, here is the tricky part... getting you back to a state where you can properly function and take an update should you want to go back to stock...

Since there is no 5.02 SBF to flash back to... You should be able to install TWRP, do a nandroid backup of 5.02, before you install CM (and since the 2013 X doesn't have removable SD card, copy the backup file to your PC via USB before you try CM, just in case). And some have had success pulling the stock recovery out of the update zip file, and being able to flash it, but that is for the threads talking about the LEAKED 5.02 zips, rather than for this thread...
[Moto X General] s5610:
Time to update OP, cause 30.BD is here ) All bootloader parts and gpt.bin differ from 5.0.2
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
is that the bootloader from the 5.1 "soak" or "test" version that is supposedly hitting Brazil XT1058?
[Moto X General] s5610:
Right so, sir. And, I think, it will be the same for possible North American XT1053 soak test, because previous 221.41.31/221.41.38 BR and US had equal byte-to-byte files (30.BC).

And maybe final won't be changed, simply because too many bootloaders in a short period of time. But will see.
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
added a link to another thread of someone running into trouble after downgrading into the OP....
[Moto X General] fahrul:
What will happen if I downgrade from 5.0.2 to 4.4.4 with skip gpt.bin and motoboot.img file then do an OTA manual to 5.0.2 (using "blur...5.0.2.zip" file) which has my current bootloader. Is it going to brick my phone or it will be ok?
[Moto X General] :
Maybe. :good:

That is all I can say to any kind of downgrade question.
[Moto X General] KidJoe:
That has caused bricking in the past.....
[Moto X General] fahrul:
Its ok when I do that on my moto g, but i dont want take any risk on my xt1053 cause its seems has more complicated system than moto g.

So the answer its better keep my current 5.0.2 till the latest lollipop sbf come?? Right?