yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[One (M9) General] One Twelve:
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6641165460/ettr-exposed

is a little more technical. key point ? take shots at base iso. what is that ? 50 isn't it.

To expose to the right means longer shutter.
[One (M9) General] xsardax:
This is definitely one of the biggest let downs, and it is keeping me now from M9 amongst my carrier issues.

I have been using MLHD since OneX on daily basis at home for YT and various streams...

Very angry at HTC at this moment.

But back one month or so ago, I asked them:

[MENTION=3840034]aple[/MENTION]ic HTC Media Link works with Sense 4 and Sense 4+ - see the details here: http://t.co/BHISmsMtSF

https://twitter.com/htc/status/582825107959201792

Damn, this is unprofessional.

Sent from my HTC One_M8
[One (M9) General] DeadPotato:
A couple days ago I saw a tweet from HTC saying they left the RAW support for third party tools, then LG G4 announced a very complete manual mode and including RAW support, then today HTC launches an update supporting RAW. Coincidence much, maybe a misunderstanding? I don't know which but thanks, RAW is always a good thing :)
[One (M9) General] defcomg:
I think iso 50 on the m9 is extended iso the base iso should be 100 I was reading up on extended iso the 50 value is actually 100 with different processing ment to allow longer exposure time so it somehow suppresses the dynamic range if you look at how iso is represented in the isp it's represented with a gain value

these are values logged with me changing iso on my device

05-01 02:34:58.421 E/AEC_PORT(294): aec_port_send_exif_info_update: exp_Time:0.090005, iso:100, flash:0, exp idx:298, line cnt:6299, gain:1.008472

iso 100 then you get the gain value of 1.008472 while its not 1.000000 this would be no signal gain has been applied

05-01 02:35:33.281 E/AEC_PORT(294): aec_port_send_exif_info_update: exp_Time:0.090005, iso:200, flash:0, exp idx:321, line cnt:6299, gain:2.016945

iso 200 gain applied 2.016945 signal has been clearly amplified here

so to get to my point if I was to use iso 50 for raw that would mean a gain of 0.500000 which would mean the sensor is throwing away information which in theory would result in more on noise than base iso perhaps even more than Iso 200 .

think of photo receptors as bucket at base iso they fill up at extended I so that is below base half of the bucket's content is thrown out the theory I've gotten on the purpose of extended iso is to use longer shutter speeds.

anything higher than base the bucket is unable to fill up there for you loose Dynamic range and gain noise .

the ETTR way suggests you cap device at base iso then you proceed to overexpose in 10bit we are working on a scale of 0 1023 .

zero being the darkest pixel well its really 64 and 1023 being brightest.

scale 0 32 64 128 256 512 1023 noise lurks in the low darker stops 64 128 by over exposing your pushing the pixels to the brighter stops increasing signal to noise ratio then in post you can bring the exposure back down to the correct value while having less noise in the shadow region as it was over exposed as long you don't blow the highlights you will be fine in post .

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposing_to_the_right

well that's how I understand it anyway

---------- Post added at 03:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 AM ----------

I don't think its a coincidence at the raw capture code has actually been in the HTC Camera from the jump it was missing a component for it to work correctly , I think HTC intended on launching m9 with it but saw no other OEM bothered with raw in any of their flagships so they just didn't bother to Finnish the code until the G4 came out.

Not to be done and to ride on the buzz the g4 has created with those raw shots that are circling the net , Headlines would read HTC m9 also has a raw mode just like the g4 sales go up lol I'm guessing Samsung may hop on this bandwagon soon also. that's just my opinion in reality it could be that HTC planned updating camera app before the g4 announcement :D
[One (M9) General] eosman:
Can anyone comment on noise with RAW and the M9 for low light photos.
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
Yes I tried it many times it simply doesn't see the medialink, my cousin sold his m9 and went back to his m8, they seem oblivious about it, anyway this it OT

HTC source posted comparison

http://htcsource.com/2015/04/htc-on...arison/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

RAW mode simply proves how bad is the HTC camera in processing its sensor images

---------- Post added at 08:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 AM ----------

HTC promised RAW support back MWC so it was before the G4 announcement

I am sad that the JPG companion is heavily compressed compared to the auto mode, otherwise I would always shoot in RAW :)

BTW the upcoming update is said to raise JPG quality for auto mode
[One (M9) General] defcomg:
can you share the new camera apk if the compression is done in the app it can be changed
[One (M9) General] clsA:
it's in my dropbox > https://www.dropbox.com/s/wi12sdq09lwwmeb/Camera_7.15.537220.zip?dl=0
[One (M9) General] creepinm3:
Shot this in RAW and with flash. My pictures are a lot clearer now that the camera upgraded.
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
come to think of it, i do agree with them as this will save precious storage, no point in having a 10MB + 40MB DNG
[One (M9) General] One Twelve:
Meh, these samples are not very illustrative of what RAW can do. yes there is some improvement in detail in the distance but they were not shot to exploit RAW to the fullest at all ie no ETTR. Also i think a little more could have been done on the post processing side. The jpegs look every so slightly better.

RAW allows to disable default sharpening, no halos but still crisp and apply your own if applicable.

IMG_2015.04.24_07.30.05 by flexbox360, on Flickr

feel like counting blades of grass :D

---------- Post added at 05:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------

Yes the san disk extreme should save a raw file in around a second. Remember seeing a bench for it half a year ago. 40MB/s.

sounds like a class 10 which is writing slower than 10MB/s.
[One (M9) General] Adam182:
Loving the new RAW support! no longer having to pull out my DSLR for some decent RAW footage is awesome! - Adam
[One (M9) General] zaaye:
I'm noticing a waving effect on the screen when camera app is open. Like electric interference.... Anyone seeing this. Is it normal?
[One (M9) General] flex360:
Some RAW shots taken this morning using the updated HTC Camera app (with Raw Support) and denoised with photoshop

IMAG0252 by flexbox360, on Flickr

IMAG0251 by flexbox360, on Flickr

IMAG0250 by flexbox360, on Flickr

IMAG0249 by flexbox360, on Flickr

IMAG0246 by flexbox360, on Flickr

IMAG0257 by flexbox360, on Flickr

IMAG0257 by flexbox360, on Flickr

IMAG0253 by flexbox360, on Flickr
[One (M9) General] knslyr:
Wow, Great Advice

I've had pretty good luck with my M9 photos, but after applying your suggestions I'm completely blown away. Thanks!
[One (M9) General] eosman:
Hey Hamdir, would you be so kind to show some high ISO shots taken with the in-camera jpeg vs raw. Also how is the autofocus for moving subjects? I got two boys that jump around a lot ages 2 & 4 and my M7 is a bit slow for that.
[One (M9) General] v1rk:
Using Raw mode with ISO 200

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ebqi7dori50mbge/IMAG0623.jpg?dl=0
[One (M9) General] DeadPotato:
It feels like they replaced the camera lens for a new one lol, and agree this shows how bad the HTC camera app is at processing. I really hate the fact this camera was the way to introduce the new sensor, everyone now thinks Toshiba sensor is just plain bad, when that's not the case
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
I processed the same DNG again in Photoshop, this time in 16bit mode:

This one is interesting, it's a JPG taken with DNG in raw mode, for some reason it looks really nice, in a pub, abysmal low light:

and here it is again DNG processed:

one more DNG, remember very bad lighting:

and here is where it gets interesting, the following photo was taken in Auto mode but sharpness -2 and ISO capped to 200, it collected better 1:1 detail than the RAW image

i processed the JPG heavily in Photoshop and used a detail extractor, similar to the one used by Sony phones:

and this the second attempt with RAW mode, i processed the DNG heavily in photoshop:

I also thought it would be interesting to compare with this M8 super resolution photo which was stacked in Photoacute into 16MP and toned mapped

The above test made conclude once and for all is that I should stick with sharpness -2 for auto mode, as it can preserve greater detail, it's still getting denoised by HTC code but at least we turned off the sharpness code entirely, the less processing the better

next i will try to stack an M9 photo of the same scene using Photoacute and see what can we achieve :)

.
[One (M9) General] Nekromantik:
Is the general advice use Freedcam instead of HTC?
[One (M9) General] flex360:
right now i prefer the htc camera app since the camera update came out
[One (M9) General] Nekromantik:
Thanks

I think we should post all the good build.prop tweaks on the OP :)
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
Guys a warning about using Photoshop Express

If you open the file through the HTC gallery PSE will actually have the JPG version, you are not really opening the DNG!

The best way to open the DNG in PSE is through HTC file manager head to the DNG file and you will be promted with compatible apps like Photoshop Exoress, only then you really process the DNG ;)

Also if you create and sign in with an Adobe ID, you will get all the options, including denoise, sharpen, clarity and vibrance

Sadly no vignette fix, but you can use shadows and defog to work around it

I can't believe I spent two hours tweaking the DNGs this morning on my PC, it took 5 minutes on my M9 and Photoshop Express! The results are excellent, Finally a good use for those a57 cores [emoji1]

Speaking of RAW check this analysis:

https://plus.google.com/+supercurioFrançoisSimond/posts/M3dn2wQeVrs

Looks the M9 is still better the G4 RAW implementation, although both are flawed
[One (M9) General] troopii:
Just as a hint. There is from adobe a dngprofile editor. With that you can tune the dng. Like gamma contrast and color.

Next thing why dngs contains more details then jpeg. Dngs are uncompressed and has abigger color range. That means you can get details from overexposured part wich are in jpeg just plain white with decreasing the expo. the quality you get from it is depending on your postprocessing.

There is no int type that has 10bit. So that ps, lightroom etc can read it, it must get unpacked from 10bit to 16bit and 6 bits gets filled with zeros.

Its real a pitty that htc not use camera2.

With that is is much more possible to control the scene you want to shot.

The mp are not so important then the sensor size.
[One (M9) General] frankcck:
[MENTION=1144067]hamdir[/MENTION] Would you mind sharing your settings for Photoshop express, such as denoise, sharpen, clarity's level. Like 50 or 100 or other numbers?

hTc One M9 LET THEM STARE
[One (M9) General] starbase64:
HTC One M9 - RAW processed with Photoshop Express for Android

Oberelspe_01.05.2015_19-30 by starbase64, on Flickr

Oberelspe_01.05.2015_19-28 by starbase64, on Flickr

Oberelspe_01.05.2015_19-24 by starbase64, on Flickr

HTC One M9 with the new raw mode by starbase64, on Flickr
[One (M9) General] frankcck:
[MENTION=456666]starbase64[/MENTION] would be much grateful, if you can share with us what your processes are for Photoshop express.

hTc One M9 LET THEM STARE
[One (M9) General] starbase64:
[MENTION=3547597]tommy0411[/MENTION]

there is no recipe, it varies from picture to picture.
[One (M9) General] frankcck:
No doubt. Only wonder some general tips. But thank you anyway.

hTc One M9 LET THEM STARE
[One (M9) General] starbase64:
[MENTION=3547597]tommy0411[/MENTION]

The important thing is, make all settings in the camera before take a photo (less rework).

- correct white balance

- correct exposure

- correct fokus
[One (M9) General] starbase64:
[MENTION=3547597]tommy0411[/MENTION]
[One (M9) General] frankcck:
Much appreciate, sir.

I'm neither expert nor professional, but I love to capture memories as great as I can.

:fingers-crossed::fingers-crossed:
[One (M9) General] MPooZD:
Wonderful pics, but still one problem when you zooming some details are noisy and unclear. It may because denoise make photos softy
[One (M9) General] One Twelve:
Trying to get something useful out of his post

- this has to do with vignetting and colour correction.

- ?

- is that good or bad, i will assume good.

- both are 10 bits. Why the m9 dng is twice as large as the g4 is unclear.

- this is the interesting part. noise reduction too high means details are going to be less than they could be.

later on he goes on to say

How to build your own profile and will that beat stock :)

You can fix colour cast in PS. Some shots will be problematic where correcting one screws another but generally speaking its fixable.

---------- Post added at 10:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 PM ----------

Its because he has focused on objects closer than 6 feet away, so naturally depth of field come into it. No processing fault or any other.

If you want sharp all the way through he needs to pick a subject that more than 6 feet away, set focus and everything behind will be sharp. To get everything sharp subject needs to be at hyperfocal.
[One (M9) General] Adam182:
Fantastic Photos - Adam
[One (M9) General] defcomg:
How we calculate size in Freedcam.

Raw File Size in 16bit Word = Stride*height

Stride = Width * 2.

that is why M9 raws are bigger than G4.

They are 10bits but stored in a 16bit due to the way data is represented.

a byte = 8 bits

a word = 16 bits/2 bytes

so as you can see 10bit can't be stored in a byte so the next logical would be two store in 16 bits store 10 pad higher 6 bits with zeros.

The only thing I've device I've seen store raw in its 10bits was the one plus keeping raw size at 16mb instead of 25mb if HTC were to encode the dng in the same way it would come to about 26mb for every dng . But that will not happen as HTC Is using DNG Creator used for camera 2 api2 and that uses Raw10 which is basically 10bit in 16 bit word.

Have a look at this wwwimages.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/dng_spec_1.4.0.0.pdf

it shows what you can do with advance profiling such as Noise Profiling.

Have you tried RawTherapee it worked better for me than Photoshop with noisy images it has multiple methods of cleaning up noise such as median filter line denoise when used right its awesome plus it has different demosaic algorithms.

lol for vignette I apply Fuji X100 lens profile to everything it works better than me trying to do it manually
[One (M9) General] Tenchi4U:
View attachment 3293704

View attachment 3293705

HTC camera, manual (all auto settings). sharpness -2, sat & contrast +1
[One (M9) General] v1rk:
I took some pictures using my nokia lumia 1520 in raw and in comparison to the m9 using raw.

Ive attached the first image which is captured with the m9 and the second is with 1520. I took 4 shots each with both phones

https://www.flickr.com/photos/131150354@N05/sets/72157651917547319/
[One (M9) General] DeadPotato:
Call me crazy but assuming I see them in the same order (M9 being the taller and Lumia 1520 the wider) I like the M9 more, a couple questions [MENTION=5608267]v1rk[/MENTION]:

- Are these out of the box, no tweaks?

- Did you use the JPG companion from the photo taken with the M9 or processed the RAW image as is?

- Does Lumia generates a JPG companion as well?

- OT: what's the photo editor you like the most for your phone? I'm just starting in the photo edition world and there are so many options for android, hard to pick one :(
[One (M9) General] v1rk:
1.Both ISO set to 200 usual would use manual on all but nokia takes some time to adjust with and so does the m9

2.No used Raw file in photoshop to 16 bit then saved as a JPG

3. Kind of depending on the lighting but my 930 does better than 1520

4.Dont use any photo editor on any of the phones.

Order of phones in picture

Nokia 930,1520,m9,m8 & m7
[One (M9) General] Drzfr3shboialex:
View attachment 3294838 Setting on auto.
[One (M9) General] creepinm3:
Auto settings.
[One (M9) General] jauhien:
As I understand the following Android editors cannot even open .DNG files not saying to process those..

Snapseed

Photo Mate R2

Aviary

Photoshop Touch

Photoshop Express

Perfectly Clear

I used RAW Decoder from Play Store to convert .DNG files produced by HTC RAW CAMERA into .JPG extension images..

HTC RAW CAMERA produces 2 different files after the snap: one has .DNG extension and the other one - .JPG..

What folks are straightway editing on their HIMAs - is simply .JPG file..

Neither built-in htc Gallery nor QuickPic can even open .DNG files in order to render them..

Go open DCIM/100MEDIA folder with your favorite file manager, and delete the .JPG extension image leaving the matching .DNG file alone.. then try edit it or at least viewing on your Android handheld.. :) :)
[One (M9) General] clemHTC:
No, photoshop express can open .DNG files, when i go to file explorer and click on .DNG files, they open directly in photoshop express and when i save the file modified it's jpg and i can see the results in gallery
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
Yes you need to make sure and use file explorer, since picking the file using HTC gallery will opt for the HTC JPG preview of the RAW file!

I found photoshop express perfect for the job so far, i can quickly fix it and save the file, the only "hard" element is hunting the file in file manager

the quick values for me are:

clarity +25

sharpness +25

denoise +35

defog +100

i can also add shadows +50, vibrance +25 and slight -5 tint to reduce the green tint but that depends on the scene

even more, what i found shocking that using the auto htc camera with sharpness disabled at -2 then applying sharpness +1 via gallery effects editor will give a massively better result than the real-time sharpness of the camera!! i will show you samples soon

eitherway, once you go RAW you cant go back, this simply destroy any smartphone camera out there in terms of 1:1, even indoor or low light is great, noise shouldn't be hunted this way at expense of image detail! i hate Android OEMs
[One (M9) General] jauhien:
OK..:)

Thank You!

Applied acquired knowledge about Photoshop Express quick edit settings to several snaps of mine..

Result is here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5fddoxdoxwhqzu7/Photoshop Express.zip?dl=0

Please advise..
[One (M9) General] Adam182:
Cannot wait to get my hands on the M9.

Going to take some killer photos with manual settings and if we get access to RAW images its going to be phenomenal - Adam
[One (M9) General] p50kombi:
I agree, Auto is for wimps :)
[One (M9) General] Stephen:
Moderator Warning,

Thread has been cleaned. Can we get back on topic now please? Remember if you have an issue with a users post. Do not reply to it, but report it and let the moderators deal with it.
[One (M9) General] Albert Poon:
Thanks man.

May I ask you guys with M9 to take pics using manual mode? A tripod, phone holder, low ISO, long explosure to take some night views?

Comparing auto mode shots cannot show how good or bad it is; such test can also eliminate the damage done by not having OIS.
[One (M9) General] D15:
That comparison was cruel for the M9. The Note4 even had louder speaker sound than the M9.

Still think they should compare the M9 to the S6 not the Note 4.
[One (M9) General] starbase64:
without a tripod? i do not think so!
[One (M9) General] vegetaleb:
For all M9 user, can you try to take photos with an app like ''Manual'' that can take RAW photos?

I am curious to see if HTC is over-compressing the photos or not
[One (M9) General] th3:
Even in daylight, the smudge/blur and lack of detail is obvious.

That's why the reviews we normally rely on rip into it.

But even I'd like to see manual performance. Dial same settings and let's see. Last hope for the otherwise abysmal camera.

Sent using Tapatalk
[One (M9) General] defcomg:
it's because of wavelet noise reduction it does horrible things to details first thing I did when I got my (not the m9) phone was to turn it off never looked back with it enabled it made so blurry that it seemed like it slightly out of focus luckily it can be turned off . in freedcam quality settings there's an option to turn it off

---------- Post added at 07:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 AM ----------

I believe you may find that it may not work with camera apps that use api2 that's why I had suggested trying freedcam it is able to use old api however seems only 10bit formats but the m9 has a 12bit ADC so it maybe a case of not listed or HTC will enable it later .

the sensor on m9 is the only mobile sensor, I've seen that can produce raw12 images so it may edge the other devices when it comes to raw capture
[One (M9) General] One Twelve:
Don't need a tripod for a 1/40 exposure.
[One (M9) General] tryfound:
Took some during sunset again to compare the Note 4 with the M9. They were over 5MB so I've had to use imgur

M9

http://i.imgur.com/RUmiWMX.jpg (auto)

http://i.imgur.com/B65h6Im.jpg (HDR)

http://i.imgur.com/vyhSjJ2.jpg (auto)

http://i.imgur.com/lZz4W5y.jpg (HDR)

Note 4

http://i.imgur.com/WjcUms9.jpg (auto)

http://i.imgur.com/DjHzDD0.jpg (HDR)

http://i.imgur.com/qM7d4Yc.jpg (auto)

http://i.imgur.com/JdnOV4X.jpg (HDR)

HDR mode on the M9 makes everything washed out and also takes a few seconds to process whereas the Note 4 is instant. Every shot I've taken with HDR on the M9 has looked better without HDR whereas HDR on the Note 4 is great in lighting conditions like the first scene.
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
more awesome photos posted by Jesse

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jpenico/

i will embed them in smaller size so you guys can see the benefit of capping the resolution (17MP):

the first one is unedited, the last two are edited with VSCO camera, the last photo is in HTC offices :)

I think we need to remember that this camera is 20MP, there is no point judging 1:1 quality at this excess as we have a lot of room for downscaling
[One (M9) General] Adam182:
These are looking fantastic! thankyou - Adam
[One (M9) General] Corduroy-21:
Again tryfound's photos are pretty decent compared to the Note in daylight.

HDR is not that good though.

For me, these pictures are acceptable for my use. When I need something more I have my Nikkon with me.

The problem seems to be low-light where M9 is mediocre. Can we take pics with the UP front camera as a front one?
[One (M9) General] tryfound:
Agreed, day shots in auto are fine most of the time.

I tried one of my previous shots indoors using the front camera and it came out even worse because it wasn't able to focus properly... I'll try again later though
[One (M9) General] vegetaleb:
Yo bro!

Can you post your daylight outdoor shots compared to note 4 please?
[One (M9) General] fernando sor:
I don't know anyone who thinks the note 4 has better sound. As far as Loudness I can't say. But that isn't the only measure of good sound.
[One (M9) General] th3:
N4 loudspeaker is like thin, mono, tin sounding, quite honestly. I've tested it, in terms of sound separation and fidelity, my M8 blew it away. N4 speaker is being shown as a bit louder than the M9 tho.

Sent using Tapatalk

---------- Post added at 02:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------

It'd be interesting if a reliable poster tested this...

-1 sharpening is basics, too.

But some negative aspects of the slower lens will always be apparent. Especially in less-than-bright lighting.

I think one of the primary issues we're seeing is problems with the metering and exposure compensation algorithms. I'm noticing the high ISO and/or fast shutter speeds the M9 is picking on Auto, in dim to low light with incorrect exposure.

The last thing; I'd like to see 8-10Mp performance. Does it increase the dynamic range and snr?

Sent using Tapatalk