yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[One (M9) General] One Twelve:
IQ is a broad term. exposure (how bright or not), colour (how close to what you see which is function of wb as well as amount of light) and details

take details only (ideal case, vendor implementations will vary)

ISO 400 with shutter x = ISO 200 with shutter 2x (meaning slower) eg iso 400 gets it at 1/100 then ISO 200 needs 1/50 or twice as slow to get an equivalent exposure with finer grain.

ISO 400 is the same as ISO 200 +1EV and ISO 400 - 0.5EV is the same as ISO 200 + 0.5EV in terms of details.

EV is a quick fix. helps if its less than an f-stop or little over otherwise, but at whole numbers its just the same as the next ISO step.

Will leave out large and medium as that helps to indirectly improve IQ by reducing noise. makes colours more solid.

See your settings.

The two images can be considered as close to ISO 400 in terms of details with better exposure for the second. In other words the improvement in details is minor. The noise is reduced because you went with medium. But details as a result of ISO remain similar.

ISO 400 at 1/33 means ISO 200 at 1/17. Now if you can slow shutter further you will improve IQ as well as exposure. But if you use EV+1 then you increase the sensitivity of the shutter which introduces noise. EXP comp is convenient to get the right expsoure. That really is the first thing to nail before optimising image quality.

To improve on details how slow does the shutter have to be WITHOUT EV to get that second shot. Right now i would say there is little to seperate them in terms of details. You improved colour and exposure mostly.

How are you getting focus. If you click on the shutter button it should focus, if you hold it without removing your finger it locks focus. if you remove your finger then it takes the picture.

If you tap to focus and then press the shutter, if there is any shake it will refocus, when you press the button it will refocus again and whether it gets focus or not or whether you hold it steady then it will take the picture.

This third picture is an ISO 200 with equivalent exposure as your first ISO 400. Cant say anything about details because all i see is a 0.5MP compared to 3.4MP of the first image.

This fourth is an ISO 400 (because of +1EV) with slower exposure so its brighter. You wont see much details improvement between 3rd & 4th.

to get a better detailed image at ISO 200, you need a slower shutter, try 1/4 or 1/2 with no EV. You can see these at the end of hamdi's post.

And can you use google drive ?
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
once you change the ISO, image adjustments as well, however this only affects auto mode and manual mode, the rest of the scenes have their values built-it and can not be changed, you can also save your different settings as a new camera! by the the M9 macro mode is highly effective, in macro mode you can focus a lot closer to objects
[One (M9) General] th3:
The picture you posted about 1/5 was irrelevant BTW. Not the M9, and a crappy high ISO. I'm capping ISO at 200. If you try that with M9 you'll get absolute fail. As a die hard HTC fan, I'm sure you don't want to see that [emoji4]

Lol... What you on about?

Exposure Compensation is NOTHING to do with ISO.

ISO, Aperture and Shutter speed is the triangle. Only these control the light input. Trade one for the other.

EC value changes the way cam sets the gray level. It's not a physical thing like ISO. Increases or decreases brightness meter reading.

We just need to see pixel level brightness through a histogram to discern the pixels are collecting enough light (right).

This is yet an unproven, unrepeated conjecture.

We're talking about the M9 here. I've still to see any convincing repeated gain there is large to medium.

Can't do that. M9 camera isn't good enough to handle in that scene.

It's physically beyond the cam capability. It you decrease ISO and shutter in that image, it'll increase EV automatically to compensate.

Duh [emoji14]

What do you mean "should"?

I have it in my hand. Have a read of the reviews, all this has been covered repeatedly. It doesn't do it as it "should".

Everyone just taps on the button. We did this with the M8, it worked well. If you do that with the M9, it produces crap!

If you wait for a while, keep checking viewfinder and click it when you think it's focused right, you get what I posted. Even then it refocuses repeatedly (I'm talking indoor or dim light)

See above. ISO 200 and 1/2 and 1/4 are not possible in that picture with the M9. You just get extreme blur and darkness.

If you acquire an image, it bes at EV +4.

According to your logic, that's far worse than ISO 600 so.. [emoji13]

I'll most certainly post full sized images of everything I've said as soon as I'm at a laptop with time. But I work a normal job and have a family (hint: time). [emoji6]

The above were just samples depicting white balance/focus/colour/contrast/saturation (thru tapatalk upload). Definitely not for IQ.

Sent using Tapatalk
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
The M9 camera in general needs a slight kick in saturation and contrast at the current software, i am sure HTC will adjust in an upcoming update (which is what they've done for the M7/M8)

i found my sweet spot:

Contrast +0.5

Saturation +0.5

Sharpness -1.5 (but it can be -1 for more sharpness)

auto focus

the first one are in Medium, the rest I've returned to large since HTC gallery or Flickr will downscale them for me anyway, next i will try the Regular 10:7 aspect ratio with full 20MP in large or 16MP for medium

sorry for the lousy locations but this is all I could do in my busy day to work

M9 photos are best enjoyed downscaled and some people are asking to see good photos, click to open in Flickr where you can see image stats and download full resolution from there

Auto, 16:9 Medium 12MP, ISO200cap, 1/7

Auto, 16:9 Medium 12MP, ISO200cap , 1/7

Macromode, 16:9 Medium 12MP, you can not control ISO or sharpness in scenes so it went all the way to ISO200, 1/14

Auto, 16:9 Medium 12MP, ISO200cap but it went for 50, 1/1105, this was behind my car dirty glass hence the yellowness

Auto, 16:9 Large 16MP, ISO200cap but it went for 50, 1/1460, this was behind my car dirty glass hence the yellowness

Auto, 16:9 Large 16MP, ISO200cap but it went for 100, 1/100

Auto, Large, ISO200cap, 1/33

Auto, 16:9 Large 16MP, ISO200cap but it went for 160, 1/14

Auto, 16:9 Large 16MP, ISO200cap but it went for 160, 1/25

Auto, 16:9 Large 16MP, ISOAutoMax it went for 800, 1/25, use this one to create a lovely red and green theme ;)

here is where things get tough, low light

I wouldn't fool myself and expect better results than the UP camera but still these are great for the amount of brightness they let into the photo

Auto, 10:7 Large 20MP, ISO400cap, 1/11

Auto, 10:7 Large 20MP, ISO200cap, 1/14

Auto, 10:7 Large 20MP, ISO400cap, 1/10

Auto, 10:7 Large 20MP, ISO200cap, 1/7

Definitely not so terrible ;)

have a look how lovely they look compiled in the my HTC One M9 Flickr Album

again these were my values:

Contrast +0.5 (this is good for most pictures except a person in front of you)

Saturation +0.5

Sharpness -1.5 (but it can be -1 for more sharpness)

auto focus

I personally would prefer contrast and saturation around +0.25, i hope HTC pushes it a little in their next update, also they improve their sharpness code, bring ISO under control and provide a way to disable Anti-shake

.
[One (M9) General] nebulaoperator:
[MENTION=1144067]hamdir[/MENTION]

Images looking much better! Well done.
[One (M9) General] dondavis007:
Manual Camera, cab you use it? Probably been asked before.

Sent from a mobile gadget...
[One (M9) General] Adam182:
How do i embed photos from flickr like you have mate - Adam
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
open the image in flickr website on the right corner under the photo there is a download icon., from there go to view all sizes, pick the resolution you want and right click copy image url to embed here :)
[One (M9) General] Adam182:
ISO 200max

Sharpness -1.5

Contrast .5

Size Medium

Auto Focus

https://flic.kr/p/rBXvqv

https://flic.kr/p/rWaako

https://flic.kr/p/rWhwvt

https://flic.kr/p/rWagNJ

- Adam
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
[MENTION=1920378]Adam182[/MENTION]

did you increase color/contrast +0.5? can you also place link the image homepage on flickr so we can download full size?
[One (M9) General] One Twelve:
It came from

here

[Techspot M9 review] ;)

The ISO is 1600 but reduced to 2.6MP and the shot looks decent. In a pinch, i'd be happy with it. You're not going to be able to zoom in much but as it stands its among the better high ISO shots i've seen. Mostly because of the subject and the look. Subjective ofc.

If you capped ISO at 200 then its the shutter that's going to move. That is the theory. But when i saw hamdi's shots i could not figure out how shutter remained the same between the ISO 200 & 400 grabs whilst still producing a similar looking image. So this something that needs to be chased with more images.

Aperture is out since its fixed. that leaves ISO & shutter to control light input.

EC will work when either ISO and/or shutter is on auto by overriding the light meter.. if one of those parameters is on manual then the other moves. if both are on manual then EC does nothing. See

here

.

This did not convince you ? you can get it even better with smaller sizes. techspots samples are just 2.6MP.

The 1/5 night shot at 1600 is another example albeit more extreme.

Then explain this ISO 100 0.5 s exposure to me ?

Isn't this what i've been saying is possible because its been done time and again with any device on this board that will allow you to do so. Why it is not possible for you is mystery to me.

Can you link the review where it says that. I only look at images from these reviews and exif check, no exif i move to the next review. Not seen a feature review of the m9's camera yet other than over here. Which is why i'm here too.

Blur is due to camera shake. darkness i find strange. longer shutter means more exposure, if anything it should be over exposed.

more the merrier
[One (M9) General] Adam182:
My apologies Hamdir, yes i did infact add .5 contrast, ill edit my post with correction. Also added links - Adam
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
thanks, so all we need to do is cap the ISO and sharpness, color/contrast bump for taste, if you like your photos punchy

but I would also suggest going with the original 10:7 aspect, it's good as its not 4:3 and at medium 10:7 we get 16MP :)

best thing about the new photos is the colour balance, which is gorgeous

but even with all our caps there is still excessive smudging, i would point finger toward the Anti-Shake code...but alas that's all we can do without HTC looking into it, this is extreme smudging considering that the sharpness code is almost turned off and the ISO capped as low as 200

you forgot this? ;)
[One (M9) General] Adam182:
Thanks for pointing that out :) i hadnt even realised i had changed it. Ive switched back to 10:7 - Aeam
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
it didn't HTC defaults to 16:9 + large which is 16MP but the sensor actual aspect is 10:7 which gives you 20MP, or downscaled to 16MP with medium, it was just a recommendation

my following setup will be:

Contrast +0.5

Colour +0.5

Sharpness -1

Aspect 10:7

Resolution Medium (16MP)
[One (M9) General] dondavis007:
Vegas :) ?

Sent from a mobile gadget...
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
so if we go back to Jesse's impressive M9 unedited samples

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jpenico/sets/72157650671608427/

we will notice that most of them have ISO below 100 and many with EV -0.5, he either used caps in auto or manual mode ;)

honestly why does HTC needs anything beyond ISO800 on this camera is really beyond me, when ISO200 is so bright Auto Max is like shooting yourself in the foot...
[One (M9) General] th3:
From my experience so far, that's what I've found too (with -1 sharpness)

Sent using Tapatalk
[One (M9) General] One Twelve:
I wonder what stops them from offering a 3:2 aspect on fixed focal length smartphone cameras. Its a standard.

10:7 is getting there but not quite.

16:9 is niche, not tall enough in landscape and skinny in portrait.. 4:3 is good for portraits but not wide enough in landscape.

3:2 is good with both. apple is the only one to offer it otherwise you have to go 3rd party.

can always crop later but it would be nice to frame in camera it self.

---------- Post added at 05:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 AM ----------

People shots. Try to freeze them indoors at 1/60. Then resize to 4MP to remove the noise.

But these are extended ISO. just software enhancement over native which i think tops out at 800.

They are very good, thanks for the effort.

---------- Post added at 05:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 AM ----------

Amazing shot. It's like being there.
[One (M9) General] Nemeth27:
Sorry for the dumb question, but I can't seems to figure out how to take a Zoe. It was one of the camera options on the M8 with Sense 6, where did they move it too?
[One (M9) General] goffmj:
I believe it's offered as an option when you go to review a photo (on the bottom, with the image editor and other options). Assuming you have the Zoe app installed.
[One (M9) General] rizevnarastek:
You tap on the 4 dots and select Zoe? If you mean Zoe video highlight then that's in the gallery app when you chose timelime with daily, weekly, location view...

Sent from my HTC One_M8
[One (M9) General] dondavis007:
[MENTION=1920378]Adam182[/MENTION] Have you taken all the Vegas photos with the M9. I downloaded a few to my phone from flicker in full size and I will say I'm impressed by the indoor pics. After all this bashing (and it will cost HTC this year) I didn't think you could do pics like that. The pics is nicely freezed, did you have any problems with blur?

Sent from a mobile gadget...
[One (M9) General] targett:
I'm disappointed with my camera shots! They are fuzzy and pixelated ?
[One (M9) General] dondavis007:
Have you tried to create a template from manual with a cap 200 iso and some extra contrast? Someone also said that there is a 0.25 sec lag after pressing the button.

Sent from a mobile gadget...
[One (M9) General] Adam182:
Hi Don, only the few photos in the M9 folder are the ones taken with the M9 so far - Adam
[One (M9) General] dondavis007:
Ahh. I missed the folder and checked the rest of the Vegas show. Great place, biggest Disneyland in the world :)

Sent from a mobile gadget...
[One (M9) General] th3:
One Twelve;

Just cus I promised.

M8:

M9:

Placeholder for the pics you've already seen

Sent using Tapatalk
[One (M9) General] tryfound:
Happy with these auto shots I took outside my office the other day, used HDR and think it worked well

Full size here: https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0B1u_7LJOO6ReYmtJTEpQR05UY2M/edit
[One (M9) General] Nemeth27:
I meant the camera option. It's not there when you press the four dots on the DE M9.
[One (M9) General] th3:
It's not there for UK M9 either. No Zoe in-cam option
[One (M9) General] One Twelve:
The only difference between these and the previous is you use auto focus instead of touch to focus ?

Exposures look right.
[One (M9) General] Rose4uKY:
I'm trying to adjust mine like yours to try it out. Where is auto focus I don't see it and what do I set ISO on? Thanks! And I video when I go hear band play it's auto set on full HD which Is like our M8. I have a 64 gig card in camera is 4K going to be a lot better. I know it will be a bigger file size and I upload to facebook some should I stick to full HD.? Nice pictures BTW
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
Just point your phone on your target and let it focus on its own, don't target on the viewfinder, if you are not happy point the phone down then back up and let it focus again

ISO is right there on your viewfinder, bottom to the left "auto ISO Max"
[One (M9) General] petermulders:
Just took this one. Auto settings, no edit. Just point, focus, shoot.

[IMG="First try with One M9"]http://imgur.com/ccfoOer[/IMG]
[One (M9) General] Duncan1982:
Picture taken using Bokeh mode :)
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
this:
[One (M9) General] sallam5010:
Can't really complain much bout low light performance !
[One (M9) General] tryfound:
For outdoor shots I never tap to focus except with some HDR shots or macro.
[One (M9) General] One Twelve:
right, so i'm asking whether you used tap to focus or auto focus with the last two HDR you put up ?

as earlier you found HDR to be inconsistent.
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
HDR works well in daylight but it requires focus lock in low light
[One (M9) General] tryfound:
Used auto focus in these two, the previous ones at the train station with bright morning light from the sunrise are harder to get looking good without using workarounds you've mentioned previously.
[One (M9) General] One Twelve:
Lets consider HDR in good light for now.

Check his gallery

https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0B1u_7LJOO6ReYmtJTEpQR05UY2M/edit

1. Compare IMG0336.jpg with IMG0342.jpg look at the sky. No glow in 342, sky looks consistent. why is that ?

He reduced sharpness with 342. Was this enough to reduce the inconsistency you see in the sky. Also apparent in IMG0339.jpg

2. Compare IMG0338.jpg with IMG0344.jpg. Both these shots are similar in the sense there is not a great deal of lighting difference between them yet there is a haze apparent in 338 that you do not see in 344. Again sharpness reduced as you advised. What's happening there.

What i can see is on more zoom there is less coarseness with the last two and that is due to reduced sharpening but i can't explain the consistent exposure.

Shots taken early in the morning and late afternoon so ideal lighting.

You did not use them in your last two and they come out right. So under certain conditions they aren't required
[One (M9) General] dondavis007:
Please put forward photos and tips. If possible with links to full size pics.

Sent from a mobile gadget...
[One (M9) General] Stephen:
Thread cleaned. Can we keep posts on topic please.
[One (M9) General] Duncan1982:
A couple more for the thread, iso Max 200, contrast +0.5, Saturation 0.5, EV + 1.
[One (M9) General] dondavis007:
What's your focus point or are the pictures out of focus?

Sent from a mobile gadget...
[One (M9) General] Duncan1982:
Out of focus if I remember rightly :P
[One (M9) General] clsA:
Pretty much the same settings indoors - iso Max 200, contrast +0.5, Saturation 0.5, Sharpness -1.5 EV +0
[One (M9) General] Duncan1982:
Liking the pics, yes the M8's camera may not be to the level of the S6 (yet) or wont be due perhaps to lack of image stabilising.(I'm no expert here).

However with not much of an effort you can get some very very decent shots :)

I'm happy enough for my needs :)
[One (M9) General] vegetaleb:
Please post in full format so we can check total quality
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
few remarks:

yesterday i went for 10:7 in complete sunlight, also this time i locked into sharpness -1, ISO200

but here is the thing, i still noticed some high smudging at 1:1 despite the ISO cap, like an upscaled photo with my M8 woop filter!

which made me remember that HTC sharpness code was always combined smudging + resharpening, so i just did some long distance sharpness tests, also in sunlight and i can confirm that both sharpness and smudging are linked

that is the more your raise the sharpness from -2 the higher the smudging as well! they are linked

inspecting full 20MP long distance -2 results will reveal to you that 20MP 1:1 sharpness disabled = very soft but in the same time we have non of the sharpness code artefacts

i am quickly approaching the conclusion that even sharpness -1.5 is damaging! -1.5 should be your maximum! HTC needs to rewrite their sharpness algorithm urgently, it's unacceptable as it is

I am uploading a Photoshop file with crops from different settings, you will understand how anything with the sharpness code on top means reduced detail, you will also be able to inspect original JPEG artefacts
[One (M9) General] clsA:
If that was for me look here >>
[One (M9) General] vegetaleb:
Can't you tell them in Elevate forums?
[One (M9) General] hamdir:
why is your focus off in most of these shots mate?
[One (M9) General] VictorC:
Macro?

Source: Twitter / https://twitter.com/traazil/status/577029324835934208/photo/1
[One (M9) General] mwatson:
I hope thats not an M9. its awful! wouldn't surprise me if Samsung were paying people to post poor quantity pictures like this claiming to be form an M9
[One (M9) General] vegetaleb:
Yep it's noisy as hell!
[One (M9) General] VictorC:
I think it's actually a cropped photo... very cropped
[One (M9) General] vegetaleb:
Here a comparison of crop between M9 and Note 4 in not very low light conditions taken by the Tweakers review, you can clearly see the superiority of the Note 4 in the details like the logos of Goodyear and the wheel:

I know it's not final software but this M9 camera is giving the same results the SE C905 could give 6 years ago

M9

Note 4
[One (M9) General] SPreston2001:
I sure hope its cropped! That picture looks like $h!t. I swear I really dont understand why HTC cant use the same Sony sensor as Samsung lol. I hate Samsung but they have some great cameras...
[One (M9) General] VictorC:
Check out this guy's feed... He has a lot of photos taken with the M9, some of which are pretty impressive

https://instagram.com/traazil/
[One (M9) General] vegetaleb:
Hahaha!

Yeah right!

Only close-up photos and resized from 20mp to 1mp even a Nexus 1 can do great in resized small photos , this is not what we can call a great source
[One (M9) General] xxquicksh0txx:
https://plus.google.com/10388377056...6126393456474303042&oid=103883770561517758752 Link to the beetle picture on his Google+ with a resolution of 1108 x 625. Definitely cropped/compressed
[One (M9) General] mwatson:
I notice there is poor dynamic range in this M9 sample which is actually what brought the M8 sensor down rather than the low pixel count. Many M8 pics looked great. The cracks really appeared in the shadings where in darker areas were clipping. HTC just need to employ some experienced imaging experts and nip this achilles heal once and for all!
[One (M9) General] rizevnarastek:
https://instagram.com/tmobile/?cmpid=SOC_SM_HTCCPTRTHS_8AAACX8A238421&003=8375729

Sent from my HTC One_M8
[One (M9) General] Adam182:
This is a really nice shot...
[One (M9) General] vegetaleb:
Again, of course a photo will look awesome when resized from 20mp to 1mp, the only way to see the actual quality of a photo is to see it at full scale or let's say resized to 12-16mp, but at 1mp even a 6 years old phone can give the same results
[One (M9) General] Adam182:
What are people doing these days with photos from a phone at full resolution? printing banners? - Adam
[One (M9) General] vegetaleb:
So why getting an M9 if the M8 4mp are more than enough for facebook and instagram?

The advantage of 20mp is to zoom the photo 5x more than let's say the 4mp of the M8
[One (M9) General] Adam182:
Because the M9 is both newer and faster and my primary usage will not be as a camera.

OK then why are people zooming into photos? People usually say to me "hey look at this cool photo" not "hey look how much I can zoom into this cool photo" - Adam
[One (M9) General] Monicahasha9:
Is it true that M8 photos are so poor? I didn't hear complain from my friend who owns an M8.
[One (M9) General] Adam182:
Nope its not true I've snapped some really nice photos with my M8 in those rare moments i use it as a camera - Adam
[One (M9) General] p50kombi:
Same here, my m8 takes some great pictures.. Also use nikon dslr for photography so I'm a tough customer to please.

**********

Sent from a tin of baked beans using some chewing gum, tinfoil, a piece of string and a manual written by MacGyver
[One (M9) General] Monicahasha9:
ok, good to hear that:)

This makes sense that M8 is not that bad.
[One (M9) General] clsA:
just set to auto focus and rotated the vase in the sunlight

Wow am i a dummy ..just checked the camera and their a huge smudge on the lens

I'll try a few more of the Vase and some outside (with a clean lens !!)