yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] Yagi:
I said this in a thread that got closed so I'll say it here now since this seems to be the place.

If there's one thing that drives me nuts more than stupid questions from stupid people, it's people who are all talk and no action. If you're tired of Noobs start and enforce a policy. Quit talking about it and do it. The forum Gods should come together, come up with their plan, and just do it. There's no need to consult all of us, just do it. I fully understand that with WM6 you have been flooded with new users and more god awful posts so if you need more man power to help moderate then get people! I'm sure there are a lot of people who come here more than 5x a day and post inciteful things and wouldn't mind policing a little.

Here are a few things for a policy I think a lot would agree on:

1. Disable PMs to Moderators and Rom cookers except frm other moderators and ROM cookers. JJ probably wouldn't be as pissed if it weren't for all those annoying PMs.

2. Shogunmark said he didn't want to ban people or turn them away, I say do it! There are plenty other forums for stupid crap and this shouldn't be one.

3. Have one thread with ROM releases for download that is locked to everyone besides Mods and Rom cookers. Or hell, do all ROM releases through the Wiki like you have for the radio versions. Then have an individual thread for each ROM where questions and problems can be asked, but as suggested above have more moderators and assign a good amount to each thread to keep crap out of it.

4. Along with number 3, one thing that bothers me, stop all the posts saying thank you. To all the people that do a lot of work here, you are clearly smart people and clearly know your work is appreciated. Besides 10+ pages of complaints and stupid questions, do we need another 10+ pages of thank yous? I think all of your egos are just fine. Delete those posts immediatly!

All I'm saying is all talk and no action gets us nowhere, we're are we going? Nowhere! (Boondock Saints reference, had to)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] lpsi2000:
yep, after 10 then prevent them from posting for at least 24hrs.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] RFehr:
Folks,

I'm a happy and proud user of Black 2.0 and have been following xda-dev for some time but this is (I think) my first post. I've simply never had the need to as any issue/question I've had have always been posted and answered by senior members.

I have, in the last several months, been getting more and more frustrated by the amount of garbage littering the posts and the flagrant disrespect for the simple rules set forth by the moderators. What used to take minutes a day to peruse subscribed forums now has become a maddening experience.

The one suggestion that I can offer (beyond those already mentioned) is to implement an 'entrance exam' to attain posting privileges. Read and download all you like but if you want to post, then registration would entail a breif test of forum knowledge - nothing too tough - just a few (10 perhaps) questions that prove that you know how to use the forum search and have read the wiki.

I would also support a mandatory donation as a prerequisite to posting privileges.

Also, another forum that I'd seen (can't recall which one at the moment) had implemented a completely different concept of seniority - had nothing to do with # of posts but rather there was a 0-5 rating on each post. Anyone but the author could rate a post for 'quality'. Users attaining a high average 'quality' of post attained greater status/seniority - the most senior of which (I beleive) were automatically granted limited moderator rights (i.e. ability to delete poor quality posts). Of course anything can be abused - but it was an interesting twist on the 'standard' forum implementation.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] wbless:
? I don't understand your reply. After 10 what?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] xultar:
I think there should be a 15 to 30 day wait before posting and PMing. That should give the new members a time to read and become familiar with the place beore they post. It will also curb people who join just for tech support of a flash because if they can't ask questions right away.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] Ninja1:
Morning Shogunmark,

How about we create a posting ban for all new members? One that would require a 30 or 45 day waiting period before they could post? That would limit some of the crap and force people to read instead of *****ing. If this is possible then maybe we could make the ban retroactive to all new members from the last 90 days or so and make them wait 30 to 45 days before they can post again?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] lburrowes:
Great suggestions so far...

Maybe it could be set that they have to read the Wiki before every getting to post like how you have to click the TOS in order to accept. Make it a 24 hour waiting period to give them time to read before they post.

I know my post counts are low but it took months of reading 40+ page posts to make sure I grasped all the concepts. Never had a problem modding... Been modding since I had the moto v600...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] Ryuerik:
Serach and Read Training

New members, 7 day without posting

just

search read

search read

search read

search read!

After 7 days, probation for 7 days; 10 stupid questions

BANNED for 7 days!

search read

search read

search read

search read!

I might sound a little hard, I am hard but I am fair!

I am sure that if somebody is not really serious about this development forum and comes here just to get some free personal advice and not to learn how to improve his/hrs little sweet PDA, it will learn or leave.

Or we can set up a "one dollar" question service!

If I am in real need !FOR WORK HELP! and take my time to PM someone I will also be willing to pay "one dollar" for that!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] jeffreycentex:
I may not be that familiar with VBulletin, but why can't we do the following:

Make this forum (or another one of your choosing) a completely moderated forum. After a while, a user would earn the privelege of posting to this said forum without moderation (after so many posts that are acceptable to the moderators, etc), while leaving new users as moderated only.

This will cut down on the overall "bloat" of the thread, but will have the negative side effect of swamping the moderators. However, on some software, you can have different levels of moderators (i.e., one level for approving postings and another level to do bans/etc).

If it is possible, it is one way to stem the tide a bit...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] bermudace:
I'm a bit of a lurker. I never post but I read all the posts and the wiki.

I've managed to test all of the versions by myself without asking anyone but it can be intimidating. However, if you read it's pretty clear what you have to do!

I have donated cash to the community in an attempt to give back because I know nearly zero as a developer. The reason I'm posting this is because if you go to a post count scheme I'll be out in the cold. I will never post enough.

Anyway I want to say thanks and keep up the good work!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] TaurusBullba R.I.P.:
This isn't a complete solution by any means, but what about this...

... when we log onto, or even visit the site, we get popups for our PMs if we so choose. Why not utilize a similar tool to push a notice out to users. In other words, whenever a "noob" logs on or visits the site, a popup will be shown that gives a brief listing of forum rules and etiquette with an "ok" button to dismiss it. Now, this will automatically show up the first 50 or even the first 100 (if necessary) visits to the site. I'm sure the first 1 or 3 times it will be read, but after that people will just find it annoying and just click okay. But, at least it will be a reminder to anyone before they post something that's already been discussed/resolved previously.

I hope that makes sense. But I think this might be a better way then locking people out of certain threads/sections due to post count or the like.

Whatdya think?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] fergie_uk:
i love you shogunmark

What can i say!! but i love your monkey and the gun, your the best, will your monkey bear my children

**edited this non-constructive post's... this post is the reason why developers are pi$$ed at n00b's
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] JoeVulture:
I believe that the senior members and moderators need to stand together and set a good example. I'm on other mailing lists, so I know the pain of lazy people who merely ask questions without doing the proper research, and I'll admit that I've done it a few times.

That said, I'm not familiar with the vBulletin software, so some of these options may not be enforceable. Here's some things that I think might help:

1. Private Messages should have "buddy lists". In that way, anybody who doesn't want to receive private messages from "noobs" can just ignore them - they'll only see messages from those that they have established contact with.

2. All of the senior members should probably have a sig that contains a link to the Wiki and some other common resources. (I'm sure that many of you do).

3. An initial posting ban of a few days - this should make trigger happy people either (hopefully) read the Wiki, do a search, or give up.

4. I know that the name of the site if XDA Developers, but perhaps a "users" forum for some of the non-development general chit-chat. And actively move posts there when necessary.

5. On every post attempt by members with a "service time" of less than X days, before the post is accepted, maybe make them check off a box indicating that they have done a search, read the Wiki, etc. (I've seen this done on some other forums.)

6. Moderation has to be stepped up. If a user makes a stupid post, politely let them know that they should have searched (but don't give them the answer). This in combination with (5) would really assist in weeding out the bad apples.

7. If they make many stupid postings, then suspend them, and explain why. Maybe a temporary suspension (where they cannot post or PM) will make them rethink their ways.

8. Finally, if all else fails, ban them.

Moderation, I know, is the hardest part. I myself do not have the time to contribute to moderation, my day job (ironically dealing with noobs a lot of the day) leaves me too drained.

Thanks for listening to this noob. ;) (See, because of the search feature, and reading the threads on each ROM when they're released, as well as reading the forum on a daily, sometimes multiple times per day, basis, I have the information that I need, so that I don't need to post questions.)

-- Joe
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] unwired4:
Whilst VB can easily manage pre-moderation for all new users - it puts a lot of workload on Mods and doesnt really communicate the issue to noobs - who then think their posts are not working etc etc...

I personally favour a 48 hour cooling off period to stop "Help I flashed my device and now my girlfriends number has disappeared..."
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] UKMadBeef:
Not sure about the time delay between registering and posting ... I lurked on here unregistered for ages - I only registered cos I needed to download an attachment. By the same token I could have registered just to post when I felt it was appropriate. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Maybe a 24 hour delay at most, but 1 week is ridiculous.

It's a fine line between tarring everyone with the same brush, and cutting out the clueless. I'm all in favour of dishing out 1 week bans for idiots as the "softly softly" approach obviously failed as it put jasjamming in the position he's in now, to the detriment of the vast majority of users.

On the other hand, if some asshole posts a dumb question, ban him, and he'll be forced to find the answer himself. (perfect) However if the mods are too busy or unwilling to enforce this with any kind of uniformity, then I suppose a time delay would be a reasonable compromise ... ?

I still reckon BugZilla (etc) is worth a look at - in addition to the forums.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] mcrochip:
So you're suggesting a Wiki Wiki? I like the idea of a delay before the first post, which I'd make about 3 days. You have to register to download a ROM, and a 3 day waiting period would help ensure that people read before posting stupid questions about those ROMs. I would also suggest a disclaimer page that you have to click through before you can download those files (yes, this would take a change to forum code)... right now, I can go to LVSW's ROM post and get the ROM from the first page - add a pop-up to say 'Thank you for your interest in this download. Please ensure you have read the Wiki and FAQs prior to installation of this ROM.' This would apply to all DLs; I'm using LVSW's as an example.

To me, the best thing done in here to help stem the tide of useless posts was the creation of the sticky links post (don't recall who did that) with the links to all of the important posts and wiki, and MrVanx for the upgrade guide. As my siggy points out, I've been playing in WM for quite some time... it's only recently that I got into the concept of cooking. I'm not a programmer - that's why I thank the chefs.

-Steve
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] armedmetallica:
Delete bad NB posts

how about this for hardline?

Delete any posts for any requests already covered in Wiki or any other topic. Heck, it's probably possible to write a backend script to scan for new posts that have similar content, and automerge, or delete new post.

OR -- force a "keywords" field when posting... whereby the poster has to post 5 to 10 keywords about the post they are attempting. Before actually being able to write something in the message box and click post, a list of items relevant to those keywords should appear. I've seen this in places -- don't recall where exactly.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] richy240:
Ashamed? Get out. Right now. Leave.

Ah ha ha ha! That's right n00bs! <<SLAP>>!

You would have if you had about 15x the posts that you currently have. But since you're still in double digits, you should be kissing our asses.

I support the iron-fisted approach.

True, but they might think twice about posting some stupid **** next time...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] wbless:
Has anybody already suggested a formal greeting, a uniform or a symbol to accompany the endlosung of these inferior NOOBs?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] richy240:
How about 50 lashes with a whip?

Anyway, a n00b isn't marked by their lack of posts in my opinion (even though above I was taking **** about someone's lack of posts - that was just to be an ass). Someone could have one post, but be a freakin' expert. That's something we should all keep in mind. Just because they haven't posted here yet doesn't necessarily make them a n00b...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] Lordsmiff:
One of the problems with this particular forum is that the hermes is a really popular device right now and everyone wants WM6 so the volume of traffic through here must be huge. There's simply too much here for everyone to read every post and as has been mentioned before, there's a lot of useless posts that makes searching difficult.

I like the idea of a cooling off period before posting but I think 24 hours is enough. If you've bricked your £500 phone installing a ROM, your first instinct is to panic and post a "help me now" post in the ROM release thread. If you have to wait 24 hours to do that, hopefully you'll then use that time to learn how to recover it. Making use of stickies with helpful FAQs in would help - even if they only point to a relevant part of the wiki. Help people to help themselves. If you still can't do it after that, then I don't think a post is an unreasonable course of action.

For example, if you had the white screen problem reported after some of the recent ROMs, you would have searched for posts and found lots of "I have the white screen problem...help" posts in the first page of results, following which, if there's no cooling off period, you wouldn't bother to go to the second page (as is so often stated in reports about google :), you'd just post a "This has happened to me, has it been fixed yet" type comment, just adding to the amount of white noise in here.

I think thread for releases of ROMs should be locked as soon as they're posted - a thred 60-70 pages long is getting a bit out of hand - and locking it would hopefully curb some of the "Thanks, I'm putting it on right now and will report back shortly" comments, which everyone is guilty of, not just "n00bs". It goes without saying how much the hard work of these guys is appreciated by everyone but do they need to be told that every time they post a new version?

That locked thread should only then be able to be updated by either the original poster, with fixes, workarounds etc, or a moderator. I don't think seniority should apply here as it is based on the number of posts you make, rather than quality of those that you do. I've been guilty of posting something about an official WM6 Hermes ROM that had apparently been known about for a few days - I'd missed it because it's such a high traffic forum - and the replies made me feel stupid and disinclined to post stuff like that again. Please feel free to call me an idiot for posting something you all knew but do it in a friendly way rather than trying to make me feel inferior for not reading every single post while trying to do my job, raise 2 kids, etc etc.

But please, don't stop doing just because you get mithered to death - just ignore them or delete them and lighten up a little everyone (myself included here :)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] ndcart:
While I can understand the frustrations, I think all of these threads regarding all of these issues need to be deleted. I don't come to this board to hear people ***** and moan, I come him for the technical aspect. Enough of the bickering already. :mad:
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] JudgeDredd67:
My suggestion is here, for what its worth.

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1204022&postcount=12
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] mfabre:
Maybe, but having hosted/moderated/run a couple of mid-sized boards in the past I guess I should warn you against this. People do not spend their time reading until they can post. This is exactly the reason why this issue is being discussed. I fear that all we would achieve is people signing up to return a month later to do exactly what they do now, even more aggressively.

I believe the answer may be a combination of things. First, a little restrain/ignore on dumb/repetitive/OT posts. Second, I would suggest liberal use of the PM for responses that do not help anyone. If someone can be told through PMs that s/he screwed up, then s/he may be more receptive to learn than through repetitive public humiliation.

Finally, to all of you great chefs... do not rush into the forum to answer every stupid question/PM after a new release. Go get some sleep and let the rest of us help answering the dumb questions, which after all, are the only ones that we can answer ;)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] Sleuth255:
Bingo! nicely done!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] donzx6:
Can't find the link

...where is the WM7 link ????

Only kidding.

I guess with all of these things there are many solutions.

I belong to an open source forum whereby if you wish to post a perceived problem, you have to submit a pro-forma detailing os versions etc.

Simple rule, no pro-forma, no response.

I appreciate all of the effort the chefs do on these roms etc, and having picked up Black 2.0, a huge thank you to JJ.

Is there any way we could introduce a self imposed rule such as this ? It would encourage all people to

do some research before posting.

Cheers all,

Don
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] lpsi2000:
never mind, I thought you were saying something else.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] BlueAnt1958:
One thing this thread re-enforces...

Never ever piss off the monkey with the gun.

Working out the search function is not to bad and saves time.

RTFW is the most important statement for noobs. I do it constantly and have learn't an enormous amount about my phone in the process.

Thats my farkin 2 cents worth. :D
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] Daniel Wee:
I think a 24-hour or even a week long no post period is too short to be effective. 30 to 45 days is more of an incentive to read carefully before flashing any ROM. If someone comes back and starts posting unreasonably, simply reset their status and they can't post for another 45 days. This way newcomers have access to all the information, and don't get the privilege of posting. It will also make them appreciate that posting is in fact a privilege and not a right.

I've seen some websites that implement reputation points. This way if they post something stupid, their points can be deducted and with it their posting privileges. It may seem harsh but I think it is a fact that people (especially lazy and/or stupid ones) will NOT do their own work if they can get someone else to do it for them. This is why we have to force them using what may seem like draconian measures. If they don't like it, maybe this level of technicality just isn't for them.

Lastly, how about a simple test for those who want posting privileges. You can easily make a multiple choice questionaire with questions relating to general knowledge, such as "What is Hard-SPL?" or "How do you get into the bootloader?" etc. This will force them to study the FAQ/Wiki and make them earn the right to post. As a side effect, this will also filter out the leechers and whiners.

Daniel
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] mcrochip:
If you read my prior post in this thread (p. 8 at the time), I suggested a pop-up prior to downloading a ROM file. How about something similar when a 'Junior Member' posts? Yes, I know this would currently apply to me, but I think it just might help. Pop something like 'have you read the Wiki/MrVanx/entire thread...' with a yes or no button. On the OpenOffice.org installer (I think), you have to scroll to the bottom to enable the 'yes' button... maybe that would help too.

-Steve
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] Daniel Wee:
I don't think that's gonna work - it'll be just like the EULA that pops up when you want to install some software. Everyone just clicks on AGREE without having actually read the EULA. You need something more aggressive that actually evaluates the competency of the would-be poster. Maybe there can be a newbie forum where they can post anything they like with no restrictions but impose restrictions on some of the more technical sub-forums such as the WM6 related ones.

Daniel